Speaker 1: I just honestly feel like we need to have our
Speaker 1: own education programs for our children, because this is all
Speaker 1: by design. Us not knowing our history and not understanding
Speaker 1: who we are and where we came from is by design.
Speaker 1: What's up, everybody, I'm Gammy and this is positively gam
Speaker 1: Every week I have raw, in depth conversations with inspirational
Speaker 1: people pushing for change on everything from aging, relationships, politics, wellness,
Speaker 1: to the current issuing spacing the black community. So welcome everybody.
Speaker 1: In this episode, we're going to be discussing a really
Speaker 1: interesting and timely book entitled Black History Saved My Life
Speaker 1: by Ernest Krim The Third I had a friend that
Speaker 1: sent this book to me, and just the title alone
Speaker 1: really struck me. I really really believe so strongly that
Speaker 1: it is the last of knowledge that we have about
Speaker 1: our true history that keeps us so divided as a
Speaker 1: community and as a culture, and that is by design.
Speaker 1: Joining me on the podcast is John Lucas and Ernest Krim.
Speaker 1: John Lucas is an accomplished entertainment artist and president of
Speaker 1: the nonprofit organizations Step into the Light. Ernest is a
Speaker 1: high school teacher, activists and author of the book Black
Speaker 1: history saved my life, which is the topic of our discussion.
Speaker 1: So I want to start with you, John, because John
Speaker 1: and I met at a step in event. I am
Speaker 1: I'm not from Chicago, but I love the Chicago step
Speaker 1: and that's where I met John and we became very
Speaker 1: good friends. You actually were the one that sent me
Speaker 1: the book. Yes, you sent me the book, that sent
Speaker 1: me Earnest book. So how did you and earnest me?
Speaker 1: The nonprofit that I have performing in my head? And
Speaker 1: I was like, I need to get back to the school.
Speaker 1: You know. I just got sick of going on social
Speaker 1: media and hearing about classmates having to bury their children
Speaker 1: they got shot, you know, or hearing that classmate's son
Speaker 1: is going to jail to do a bid whatever. And
Speaker 1: so I was like, let me go back and just
Speaker 1: see what I can do. So I still have connections there.
Speaker 1: I know wonderful lady there that works in the principal's
Speaker 1: office who's one of the secretary of Her name is
Speaker 1: ms Ella Jenkins, and I've known her for a long
Speaker 1: time and so I was just telling her what I'm
Speaker 1: trying to do, and she was like, you need to
Speaker 1: meet Ernest Krim and and I she wasn't the first
Speaker 1: person to tell me that, but she was like, I'm
Speaker 1: going to see if he's available. And my other friend
Speaker 1: who also works at the school, she walked me down
Speaker 1: to his room, and that's where we first met and
Speaker 1: got a chance to talk and chat and and you know,
Speaker 1: just got a chance to get a feel for each
Speaker 1: other and what we're about. And I started to He
Speaker 1: actually has started a black student union at the high school,
Speaker 1: which I think is awesome because you know, usually black
Speaker 1: student unions start on the collegiate level, where you where
Speaker 1: black kids can come together and talk about common issues.
Speaker 1: And so he would have me come in and allow
Speaker 1: me to come in and talk to the kids about
Speaker 1: my experiences and get a chance to connect with them
Speaker 1: so that those children can see my face. And so
Speaker 1: when he said, hey, I have this book, you know,
Speaker 1: I was more than happy to pass it along because
Speaker 1: he's doing wonderful things not just for the children, but
Speaker 1: for the community in which they live in and try
Speaker 1: to navigate. Ernest. So, tell the listeners a little about
Speaker 1: your background and why you decided to write the book. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I'm from the South Side of Chicago, born in
Speaker 1: the late eighties, and I was raised by parents who
Speaker 1: were very aware, and I say I was blessed because
Speaker 1: I had parents who whenever I asked the question, whenever
Speaker 1: I had an inquiry, they always answered my question. I
Speaker 1: was that why why why? Why? Why? Kid? And they
Speaker 1: always had a response, and if they didn't have a response,
Speaker 1: they led me in that direction to find the answer.
Speaker 1: And this is before Google, so that's a big deal.
Speaker 1: We have the encyclopedias go on the basement. It was
Speaker 1: from the sixties though, don't get it twisted, but we
Speaker 1: still had a chance to read through them. Being caught
Speaker 1: in two worlds. Really on the South Side, like I
Speaker 1: saw my friends who were, you know, called up in
Speaker 1: the street life. But then I also had parents in
Speaker 1: the family who was like, that's not gonna be you
Speaker 1: like you going to college. We ain't gonna be able
Speaker 1: to get you all the Jordan's. We ain't gonna be
Speaker 1: able to get you everything you want, but we're gonna
Speaker 1: get you give you access to all the knowledge you need.
Speaker 1: And throughout my life I began to realize that I
Speaker 1: always had this question about our condition as black people,
Speaker 1: but I wasn't really connecting the dot yet. And I
Speaker 1: guess my inquiry started with, for one, not being able
Speaker 1: to be friends with a pair of twins white friends
Speaker 1: that I had that because they didn't want to come
Speaker 1: to our neighborhood. And then that snowballed into being nine
Speaker 1: years old and asking my mom why we had never
Speaker 1: had a black president, and then she told me that
Speaker 1: would be me. And then it became a situation where
Speaker 1: I have a black friend from Nigeria who's kicked out
Speaker 1: of the Mount Greenwood neighborhood where I went to school
Speaker 1: because they were spray painting. Go back to African in words.
Speaker 1: So as you this is all before like the age
Speaker 1: of eleven. So I just kept having as your current theme.
Speaker 1: And my mom and dad were always in my life,
Speaker 1: Like I wanted to go to Denny's one time, as
Speaker 1: the readers will find out, and my mom was like, no,
Speaker 1: we ain't going because they don't serve black people, you know.
Speaker 1: So this all comes to a culmination in where my
Speaker 1: wife and I are at a festival in Chicago. Okay,
Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, I don't want to get to
Speaker 1: that yet. You have a motto earnest black children will
Speaker 1: perform better if they have pride in their history. Yes,
Speaker 1: and I would like to preface this by saying that
Speaker 1: we already know these things to be true, because, for example,
Speaker 1: I saw a study today by Harvard and they said
Speaker 1: the reason why there are so many black people in
Speaker 1: prison is because DNA systemic racism. So we know these
Speaker 1: things already. My life is a testament. John's life is
Speaker 1: a testament. Your life is a testament to your kids
Speaker 1: are as well. So this Harvard study says that when
Speaker 1: black children are talked to have racial pride, they perform
Speaker 1: better academically because they are aware of the hurdles they
Speaker 1: may come in contact with. And also, to me, it
Speaker 1: gives them prime to understanding that it's not their fault
Speaker 1: that these hurdles exist, but they exist, and this is
Speaker 1: how you work your way around them or dismantle them completely.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about some of the passages in
Speaker 1: the book that really resonated with me, and I want
Speaker 1: to start with a quote that you had in the
Speaker 1: book that we all that most black people are familiar with,
Speaker 1: and that is Malcolm X question is who taught you
Speaker 1: how to hate yourself? And that kind of in your
Speaker 1: book that leads you into the discussion about where this
Speaker 1: all began with slavery talked to us a little bit
Speaker 1: about that, and you know, I have to say, Malcolm
Speaker 1: mex is probably to me the most important historical figure
Speaker 1: because I think, you know, he taught me how to
Speaker 1: value myself as a person. And what I discussed in
Speaker 1: that book is just really how I believe that we
Speaker 1: as African and Americans, as black people in this country
Speaker 1: were taught systemically to hate ourselves. Like we're at a
Speaker 1: place now where we're not technically on the plantation, but
Speaker 1: everything that we're taught and fed and bombarded with allows
Speaker 1: us to stay there mentally. And if you don't intervene
Speaker 1: with the child, a black child, then they're going to
Speaker 1: fall within that system just regularly. That's how we're supposed
Speaker 1: to be set up. If you think about the areas
Speaker 1: of which we populate the most in this system, which
Speaker 1: I'll talk about in the book, we're overrepresented in the
Speaker 1: prison population, were overrepresented in in in sports, basketball, football, ramping,
Speaker 1: you know, But we don't have ownership in these companies,
Speaker 1: you know. So my thing is if we if they
Speaker 1: quote allowed us to get into these systems without any
Speaker 1: barriers anymore, you know, shout out to Jackie Robinson, Bill
Speaker 1: russeling people like that, and we completely dominated it. Then
Speaker 1: what would happen if we knew what we could actually
Speaker 1: be outside of that, because that's the trick they plays.
Speaker 1: We were talking about this yesterday, John, the fact that
Speaker 1: we can only go as far as we expose too.
Speaker 1: Because we always see the rappers on TV, we see
Speaker 1: the athletes on TV. We don't understand that the person
Speaker 1: sitting up in that box office, the box were signing
Speaker 1: the check has way more money than the whole team.
Speaker 1: And feel free to jump in, John, you said, I
Speaker 1: see you shaking your head. I think that it's important.
Speaker 1: One thing that I always try to tell kids, but
Speaker 1: especially their parents, A child's gaze is only as far
Speaker 1: as their parents, their family, and the people in their community.
Speaker 1: If they the people in the community actually want to
Speaker 1: give the information. If the community's gaze is limited, then
Speaker 1: the child's gaze is going to be limited. And so
Speaker 1: and unfortunately one problem we do have to say, we
Speaker 1: don't share information with one another. A lot of times
Speaker 1: there are just simple, you know, things that you think
Speaker 1: as menial that could change the life of someone else
Speaker 1: if they just had that tidbit of information or encouragement.
Speaker 1: So I think we need to really work to get
Speaker 1: the information to our youth so that to broaden their
Speaker 1: kind of spectrum. You will on what could be possible
Speaker 1: and show up so that they can see that it
Speaker 1: is possible. You know, kids believe what they see. Okay,
Speaker 1: So this brings us to another quote I want to
Speaker 1: read from the book Earnest, and that is on page
Speaker 1: one eighty. You say, if history has taught us anything,
Speaker 1: it's that racist whites will continue their destructive tendencies. So
Speaker 1: what must change is our approach. We must change our
Speaker 1: perception of ourselves. Are you beautiful to yourself? Do you
Speaker 1: love your skin, your nose, your lips, your hips? Do
Speaker 1: you hate your august, volutinous parentheses, nappy hair? What do
Speaker 1: you see when you look in the mirror? Because I
Speaker 1: feel like, how can we expect to be treated with
Speaker 1: dignity and respect if we don't truly believe that we
Speaker 1: deserve it? And so do the kids really and honestly
Speaker 1: trust that they are worthy? I would answer that adamantly
Speaker 1: with the no. And again it goes back to the program.
Speaker 1: And this is also as connected to the Malcolm X
Speaker 1: quote you brought up earlier. When we grow up, everything
Speaker 1: we hear about black is negative. Think about the scene
Speaker 1: in the Malcolm X movie. You think about the fact
Speaker 1: that we're not speaking our first language. So when you
Speaker 1: see the connotation of what black is in the English dictionary,
Speaker 1: it always means something negative, whereas when we're talking about
Speaker 1: ancient Egypt or kimm it, it meant something glorious and regal.
Speaker 1: So when we when we crack jokes as kids, you
Speaker 1: know we're talking, oh you dark, you as dark as this,
Speaker 1: your your wife knows, your big lips, your your bogus hair.
Speaker 1: Everything that we used to demean each other is a
Speaker 1: relation and directly to our natural African esthetic. And I
Speaker 1: think that's something that again when we're pushing our kids
Speaker 1: to the school system, if we don't intervene, like I
Speaker 1: was saying before, then they're that's all they're gonna believe.
Speaker 1: Our kids are saying, you know, the pledge every day,
Speaker 1: even on Zoom virtual calls, but they're not making a
Speaker 1: pledge to themselves else, they're not making a players to
Speaker 1: their blackness. They're not seeing positive attributes. And again, for me,
Speaker 1: if we don't have something that's I think from right
Speaker 1: now at this point in history, what we understand is
Speaker 1: that we have to have some type of at homeschooling
Speaker 1: system set up that's in conjunction with what they learned.
Speaker 1: So it's like, Yo, what did you learn in history
Speaker 1: class today? Oh, Columbus of the Ocean blow and fort
Speaker 1: Unity two? Let me tell you what he did right after? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's so true. That's that's so true because you know,
Speaker 1: I have to use the Jewish culture as an example.
Speaker 1: You know, the Jewish culture is not putting the responsibility
Speaker 1: on public education or any private school to teach their
Speaker 1: children their history and their religion, you know. And I
Speaker 1: just honestly feel like we need to have our own
Speaker 1: education programs for our children. Whether it's because this is
Speaker 1: all by design us not knowing our history and not
Speaker 1: understanding who we are and where we came from is
Speaker 1: by design, you know, And we've got to be responsible
Speaker 1: for taking control over the information that goes into our kids.
Speaker 1: As exactly I was gonna say that. It's also it's
Speaker 1: before you even start to school, just to have a comment,
Speaker 1: just a regular conversation with your child. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of these children's their minds are not being stretched,
Speaker 1: if you will, buy their own parents or their family members.
Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest mistakes that a lot
Speaker 1: of black parents make is believing that because their child
Speaker 1: has a black parents and black siblings, they must love
Speaker 1: black people automatically. And that is not the case. Just
Speaker 1: because you grew up in a black family doesn't mean
Speaker 1: you love black people because the society and in the
Speaker 1: all the imagery and so on and so forth, and
Speaker 1: the media has taught you not to love your people
Speaker 1: before you even realize it, you know, So make sure
Speaker 1: you know, making sure that we're able to just have
Speaker 1: a honest dialogue with our children. I think this book
Speaker 1: is so great because a lot of our history that
Speaker 1: we have here a lot of times was not talked
Speaker 1: about by our our seniors, if you will, because if
Speaker 1: it came trauma, and they didn't want to talk about
Speaker 1: it because they would relive the trauma. But unfortunately, we
Speaker 1: get the short end of the stick because we don't
Speaker 1: get our history. But in order for us to get it,
Speaker 1: they have to relive that trauma. And so it's always
Speaker 1: that conflict there. A lot of our great grandparents and
Speaker 1: grandparents wouldn't tell us about how they had to flee
Speaker 1: to get out of the South to make it North
Speaker 1: for a better life because it was traumatic for them.
Speaker 1: But as is, you get a group of you get
Speaker 1: a generation of kids that don't appreciate what's done for
Speaker 1: them to get them where they are. So true, so true. So, Ernest,
Speaker 1: you drafted it a lesson that you described as the
Speaker 1: lesson of your career, and it was around the Trayvon
Speaker 1: Martin murder. Yeah. So you know what was interesting about
Speaker 1: that whole experience was now, when I look in hindsight,
Speaker 1: I devoted five chapters to the trauma that I dealt
Speaker 1: with surrounded black men and woman being killed. And this
Speaker 1: work when I released it a couple of months before
Speaker 1: this whole incident happened with Black Lives Matter. So when
Speaker 1: I was talking about in that situation right there with
Speaker 1: Trayvon Martin, it was one of the first times that
Speaker 1: story had been reached on a global scale. It was
Speaker 1: something even though we didn't have video, it was something
Speaker 1: that everybody heard about. We were all watching the NBA
Speaker 1: All Star Game and then we all heard the call
Speaker 1: when we heard the screens and the gunshots, and I
Speaker 1: just remember that was like my first second year teaching,
Speaker 1: having to go to work the next day with that
Speaker 1: weight on me was something I just couldn't really fathom
Speaker 1: the only other time I had heard something like that
Speaker 1: or seeing something similar was with the Oscar Grant situation
Speaker 1: and I was still in co it. So we can
Speaker 1: go to class and talk about it. So for me
Speaker 1: is I don't care what I have planned today. My mindset,
Speaker 1: my kids mindset is the most important thing right now.
Speaker 1: And again that's something that we're doing often discussing school.
Speaker 1: We have physical education, but not mental education. So I
Speaker 1: went there and it was like a spurred the moment thing.
Speaker 1: And maybe that's why I think I'm I'd be able
Speaker 1: to talk about things on the drop of a dime
Speaker 1: because I just said, what can I do to make
Speaker 1: this a real to them? So I grabbed the box
Speaker 1: and I typed up a sheet real quick, and it
Speaker 1: was like, basically, you know, you know what it what
Speaker 1: it means to be trade von Martin, what it means
Speaker 1: to be a black young man, what it means to
Speaker 1: be a black young lady. And it was a powerful demonstration,
Speaker 1: and they put these in the boxing. It was something
Speaker 1: that they were able to embrace. But I always remember
Speaker 1: that student of mine adamantly against it because he's like well, look,
Speaker 1: we you know, our dudes dying every day in the streets.
Speaker 1: Why does this matter to me? Why should I care?
Speaker 1: And I really distinctively remember hearing that, because, for one,
Speaker 1: it did make me even question that because we're hearing
Speaker 1: about all the death in Chicago. There was a dairy
Speaker 1: and our situation, Blair Hope situation, and somebody is caught
Speaker 1: on camera with the c T A buss and everything,
Speaker 1: and I really have to think about it. And then
Speaker 1: you know, you hear that all the time, now what
Speaker 1: about black on black crime? And I had to come
Speaker 1: to the conclusion to let him know, it's an entire system,
Speaker 1: young man. What you see happen in tray Von Martin
Speaker 1: and George Zimmerman is the same reason why you walk
Speaker 1: and get killed in your neighborhood and nobody cares, the
Speaker 1: same reason why guns and drugs are allowed to be
Speaker 1: funneled into your neighborhood without anybody care. But just to
Speaker 1: wrap it up and bring it back around, I just
Speaker 1: felt that they had to see something and feels something
Speaker 1: to let them know what they are and what they aren't.
Speaker 1: Because when they put up those gun range pictures of
Speaker 1: Trayvon Martin with a hoodie and they put up a
Speaker 1: picture of him grimace and like a child having fun,
Speaker 1: as if that was something bad, or they tried to
Speaker 1: talk about him with marijuana used just to demonize him.
Speaker 1: It's just age old pattern of trying to criminalize us
Speaker 1: to justify their pernicious activity. So I felt like that
Speaker 1: was like my the beginning of me saying, you know what,
Speaker 1: whenever we have something like this happened, we're talking about
Speaker 1: it right now. The lesson will happen eventually, But what
Speaker 1: was the actual lesson? What did you actually have them do?
Speaker 1: So they had it was a sheet of paper and
Speaker 1: they had to write down, you know, I am Trey
Speaker 1: von Martin. Then they put a bunch of positive adjectives
Speaker 1: under that, so it was something that they can see.
Speaker 1: You know, it's something that I do even now when
Speaker 1: I'm speaking, it's who are you actually? The media says
Speaker 1: you're this, Yeah, but you are like Tray Von Martin,
Speaker 1: you are actually this. And just because that man wanted
Speaker 1: to follow you home, and just because that person thought
Speaker 1: you were a criminal, that is not You are not
Speaker 1: the archetype. You don't actually fit the profile. And they
Speaker 1: were actually able to put this in a box, and
Speaker 1: it was something that they can see as you take
Speaker 1: it out afterwards, you are someone who actually is outside
Speaker 1: of that box, that paradigmin that stereotype that lesson upbout
Speaker 1: the trade Von Martin. I think about what's going on
Speaker 1: in the world today and I feel like I could
Speaker 1: be wrong, but I feel like it's something that still
Speaker 1: applies today. Do you still use that in the classroom today?
Speaker 1: You're accurate in the fact that it's still irrelevant. Restructured
Speaker 1: it quite quite a bit now because of the thing,
Speaker 1: of course is digital and virtual right now. But it's
Speaker 1: still something I do and because I speak to a
Speaker 1: lot of kids now in the area across the country,
Speaker 1: I'll do something similar with that activity, especially if I'm
Speaker 1: working with a smaller group. And I guess the most
Speaker 1: disheartening thing is the fact that it is very relevant
Speaker 1: and I think we can see it now more than
Speaker 1: ever because and I've had to stop myself. I don't
Speaker 1: watch those videos anymore because it does something to my psyche.
Speaker 1: But again, if our kids are always seeing this and
Speaker 1: then they're watching, you know, violent movies, playing violent video games, again,
Speaker 1: juxtaposed that to what the media portrays us as athletes
Speaker 1: and criminals, and we're all in a sense, we're often
Speaker 1: choosing that same thing on our own will. So it's
Speaker 1: definitely relevant unfortunately, but I'm hoping that it it impacts
Speaker 1: us in a way that allows us to research our
Speaker 1: history more and portray ourselves differently too. And what's even
Speaker 1: more sad is that, now look at all the different
Speaker 1: names that you can insert into that lesson. Besides Trayvon Martin,
Speaker 1: you can use George Floyd, you can use any number
Speaker 1: of names. So it's just really discardening. And that's that's
Speaker 1: still a small percentage of all of all, you know,
Speaker 1: and that's I think that's what a lot of people
Speaker 1: also don't realize. That could be like ten of what
Speaker 1: what has really transpired with police mutality. We only know
Speaker 1: those because that was captured on film. It was captured
Speaker 1: on film. Absolutely. So now I want to move on
Speaker 1: to discuss the hate crime that you and your wife
Speaker 1: were victims of. Tell us a little bit about that
Speaker 1: earnest and you said that actually went viral in the media.
Speaker 1: Can you describe the incident for us? Yeah, So, just
Speaker 1: to provide some context, it was four years ago. My
Speaker 1: wife and I had just gotten back from Jamaica, and
Speaker 1: it was like around the time of July, there have
Speaker 1: been a lot of incidents just now. There was Philando
Speaker 1: Castile who was shot on Facebook Live. There was Elton
Speaker 1: Sterling who was murdered for selling bootleg CDs in Louisiana.
Speaker 1: So we wanted to take our mind off of that hysteria.
Speaker 1: And then we also knew in the back of our
Speaker 1: head that we had to go back to school as
Speaker 1: soon as teachers. So the a lot of thirty if
Speaker 1: we go to this festival in Chicago, and then we're
Speaker 1: having a great time as music, as you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of people, as food, all of that. So towards
Speaker 1: the end of the event, we're decided to head out
Speaker 1: and I noticed there was an open being bad game
Speaker 1: that's called cornhole, So usually at a function like this
Speaker 1: you can't really find that station being open, so I
Speaker 1: realized that we walked over there, I noticed they only
Speaker 1: had one being bag, so that was the issue, of course.
Speaker 1: So I looked to my left and then I noticed
Speaker 1: there's a group of four people too black and two white,
Speaker 1: and they had about fifteen of them. So my mind,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, okay, they grabbed it because nobody else was there,
Speaker 1: but now we're here, maybe they'll offer them. So we're
Speaker 1: looking for some other ones and they didn't do anything.
Speaker 1: A few minutes later, somebody throws when it goes very far.
Speaker 1: My wife and are looking at each other because it
Speaker 1: went so far. It was in the other area where
Speaker 1: people were sitting, and they didn't grab it after about
Speaker 1: five or six minutes, So my wife goes over there
Speaker 1: to grab it, and our mindset is we all paid
Speaker 1: to get in here. We didn't bring this game, so
Speaker 1: you didn't grab you didn't grab it, so it's ours,
Speaker 1: you know. So she grabs it, and as soon as
Speaker 1: she comes back over the area, there's a white lady
Speaker 1: from that group who like approaches us as if she
Speaker 1: was about to attack us. Instantly, she walks over there
Speaker 1: and she started screaming at us and and saying that
Speaker 1: you could have just asked to play, and it was
Speaker 1: a very hostile tone. Same thing we get on our
Speaker 1: like our students. They'll talk back to some cheechers like
Speaker 1: because they sense an attitude. So I sensed the attitude.
Speaker 1: My wife is standing right beside me on my left
Speaker 1: hand side, and I'm like, no, you're not getting it. Back,
Speaker 1: that's disrespectful. And then she calls my wife a hole,
Speaker 1: and that's just like, you went up another level. Now
Speaker 1: you're you're really tripping. You don't lost your line. And
Speaker 1: and then at that point, her black friends started to
Speaker 1: get closer to us, and she's calling over for the police.
Speaker 1: So again in my mind, Philando cast Steele, Outside Sterling,
Speaker 1: Trey Von Martin, Sandra Blane, all of these people, and
Speaker 1: she's calling it cops over and then she begins to
Speaker 1: call us the N word over and over. You're acting
Speaker 1: like a bunch of niggers. So in my mind, I'm thinking, Okay,
Speaker 1: did she really just call us that over this? So
Speaker 1: I know my rights. I know somebody you can't actually
Speaker 1: say that, unfortunately, depending on the tone. So I knew
Speaker 1: it wasn't against the law. So my mindset was as
Speaker 1: a black person, really my defense is recording it to
Speaker 1: document and show the world who this person is so
Speaker 1: we can hopefully avoid her in all aspects of life.
Speaker 1: So I take out my phone, she slaps it out
Speaker 1: my hand and we're yelling at each other. I pick
Speaker 1: it up luckily and fell in the grass, and I
Speaker 1: stopped the press record again, and she's going crazy, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, give me your name, give me everything, because
Speaker 1: you obviously don't care that it's on camera. And again
Speaker 1: her black friends are coming closer, her white friends all
Speaker 1: the way in the back. Then he walked towards us,
Speaker 1: and then she turns and she spits on us. And
Speaker 1: that was the beginning of the end. And you actually
Speaker 1: were able to take this to court where you not
Speaker 1: so what happened was after that event. Not to to
Speaker 1: spoil it too much for the reader, but so I
Speaker 1: take it, I get him, I go on my car.
Speaker 1: We're about to leave with just lerious at this point
Speaker 1: because we don't understand what just happened. I found out
Speaker 1: that I had it on a camera, so I put
Speaker 1: the videos together, posted it online. By the time we
Speaker 1: got home, about an hour away, forty thousand views, fifty
Speaker 1: thou views. We had all the information that was by
Speaker 1: now October first found a police report. She gets arrested
Speaker 1: within two months, two and a half months or whatever,
Speaker 1: and I started the long process. But everything I got
Speaker 1: came from people online, black, white, Hispanic, who came together,
Speaker 1: and they also even knew her from high school. Several
Speaker 1: of these people who said she was just as negative,
Speaker 1: just as toxic and racist in the past, and they
Speaker 1: were glad to help me out. So we took it
Speaker 1: to the court October. You know, it's interesting that she
Speaker 1: was there with other black people who did not intervene.
Speaker 1: That is troubling. That is troubling, John, What what did
Speaker 1: you want to say about that? I see you then, Sha,
Speaker 1: That's when he was when he settled his story. That's
Speaker 1: the first thing that you know, as he says, and
Speaker 1: her black friends. And in my head, I'm like, what
Speaker 1: kind of black friends does she have that's gonna let her?
Speaker 1: You know, first and foremost, I wouldn't even if I
Speaker 1: had a friend that was just acting crazy in public,
Speaker 1: I would pull them to the side and be like,
Speaker 1: you need to get your life right fast. But on
Speaker 1: top of that, for to get belligerent enough to call
Speaker 1: racial slurs and then to actually spit on someone, for
Speaker 1: her to allow her to spit on someone that is
Speaker 1: one of your people, again, it goes to that psyche
Speaker 1: of this is supposed to your friend. They just spat
Speaker 1: on someone of your race and called them derogatory things
Speaker 1: regarding your race. But you just sitting You just sat
Speaker 1: and stood there. So what does that what does this
Speaker 1: say just about the psyche of a lot of black
Speaker 1: people and how they handle things. You know, I think
Speaker 1: sometimes they probably were just as traumatized as Earnest and
Speaker 1: you know, and just didn't know what to do. And
Speaker 1: it also brings up like just the disconnect that we
Speaker 1: have as a community. That's the only term I can
Speaker 1: think of, because I thought about this last night, like
Speaker 1: what is the word that I'm looking for? And I
Speaker 1: can just come up with disconnect? But is it? Is
Speaker 1: there something? Is there another term that you guys can
Speaker 1: think of. Yeah, it's absolute assimilation, I believe looking at
Speaker 1: those two individuals now on hindsight, because again I'm somebody
Speaker 1: who I'm there for us regardless, So I just couldn't
Speaker 1: believe and you can tell them my voice, but I
Speaker 1: think that some of us believe that by hanging with
Speaker 1: people of another race, which is fine, but I think
Speaker 1: sometimes we lose ourselves with that. If you're not careful,
Speaker 1: like to me, if you don't know who you are,
Speaker 1: what do you bring into the table. So for them,
Speaker 1: they probably thought by kicking it with her, they weren't
Speaker 1: quote unquote black anymore. And you know what really appaul
Speaker 1: me was the black brother because he was the only
Speaker 1: guy in that click. So I'm I'm looking at him
Speaker 1: really the whole I'm looking like, dude, are you gonna
Speaker 1: do something? Are you gonna say something? And then the
Speaker 1: lady on the side of the black friend, she was like,
Speaker 1: it didn't boy, it doesn't bother me. That means that
Speaker 1: you're trying to remove yourself from this experience. I don't
Speaker 1: care how you talk, how you look, whatever, that's fine,
Speaker 1: but you're still black in this country. It's beautiful. But
Speaker 1: to them it's not always that way. And for them
Speaker 1: to make an excuse to me show like you said
Speaker 1: that disconnect and I steer away from calling people, you know,
Speaker 1: derogatory names like that. But it's to me, you're selling
Speaker 1: out your culture to try to act with yes to
Speaker 1: somebody else's culture that doesn't really want you well. And
Speaker 1: the problem that we that we run into is that
Speaker 1: being forget that. From a very young age, us as
Speaker 1: black individuals in America are taught in program to be
Speaker 1: white adjacent. We're not talked to Peo, black to Jason.
Speaker 1: We're talked to be white as Jason. So we in
Speaker 1: in in retrospect, you can't be surprised that these black
Speaker 1: people allow this white person to do what she did,
Speaker 1: because we're programmed to be white adjacent. Describe what you
Speaker 1: mean by white adjacent adhering to European standards in order
Speaker 1: to navigate through society safely and efficiently. And we're taught
Speaker 1: at a very young age to speak a certain way,
Speaker 1: to act a certain way, you know, not to be
Speaker 1: threatening to to white individuals, you know, of course, and
Speaker 1: a lot of it was done because our parents wanted
Speaker 1: us to be safe and they wanted us to excel.
Speaker 1: But in the in the same at the same time,
Speaker 1: a lot of times they scented our growth as black people,
Speaker 1: learning to love ourselves in the process. And this brings
Speaker 1: up the topic that you describe ernest as racial battle fatigue,
Speaker 1: which some people may just describe as PTSD. But no
Speaker 1: matter what the label is, it creates a slippery slope
Speaker 1: when it comes to mental health in the black community.
Speaker 1: Talk to us a little bit about what you mean
Speaker 1: by that. Definitely no I got that turn from my
Speaker 1: brother Phelipe Matthews and of course shout out the Dr
Speaker 1: Jordi de Grews with post traumatic slave syndrome. It's something
Speaker 1: It's something that discusses how as we traversed through American society,
Speaker 1: we often deal with racism, microaggressions, overt aggressions constantly throughout
Speaker 1: our life. Like we're acting, we're fighting as soon as
Speaker 1: you walk out the door. You're fighting, whether it be
Speaker 1: eventually or whether it be something that's actually happening to you,
Speaker 1: and you just become so depressed to a level whereas
Speaker 1: I can't do anything to survive and get by. If
Speaker 1: you think about the black experience, whether you live in
Speaker 1: the suburbs, whether you live in a black urban area
Speaker 1: or whatever you're you're dealing with it, You're dealing with
Speaker 1: constantly being outside, I promise you, Like when I used
Speaker 1: to go for a jig in my suburban area right now,
Speaker 1: in the back of my mind was always it's something
Speaker 1: gonna happen to me, or it was always I need
Speaker 1: to stay in my subdivision and I'm going to or
Speaker 1: if when I'm running, I'm going to stay on the
Speaker 1: busy road because if I go down somebody else just
Speaker 1: because I want to see something different, they might say
Speaker 1: I've never seen that, dude. Let me call somebody, and
Speaker 1: then that fear gets confirmed with the mod arevery and
Speaker 1: again racial battle fatigued. What can I do? Where can
Speaker 1: I go? It's almost something that again leads to learn helplessness.
Speaker 1: Why why should I even try? And the problem with
Speaker 1: this is it's not that we don't all deal with it.
Speaker 1: Our kids don't realize they're dealing with it. It's like
Speaker 1: you're getting it hit and you're getting knocked into a
Speaker 1: corner boxing and you can't see where the punch is
Speaker 1: coming from. Now, if you've got like Tyson in front
Speaker 1: of me, if I can see him, at least I
Speaker 1: can run from it. Yeah. So take all of that
Speaker 1: and put on top of it the lack of jobs,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, now, the pandemic, you know.
Speaker 1: So there's the stress just from daily life in the
Speaker 1: black community. And that's why I think it's so importan
Speaker 1: for us to know our history because I'm at a
Speaker 1: point now unfortunately when I see these stories happen again.
Speaker 1: I don't want to say none, because I do feel it,
Speaker 1: but I'm not surprised. It's like you said before one
Speaker 1: of the posts in the book, like I understand these patterns.
Speaker 1: I don't expect this this country to operate differently when
Speaker 1: they've adapted in every way. Slavery so called ins and
Speaker 1: transition to share cropping, you know, Jim Crow so called
Speaker 1: is a transition to mass incarceration, and now we're dealing
Speaker 1: with something else on a different level. So it's just
Speaker 1: something that we have to understand these patterns. So it's
Speaker 1: not that we won't feel bad, but it will say, look,
Speaker 1: this is gonna happen here, so we need to prepare
Speaker 1: for the inevitability and also at the same time build
Speaker 1: ourselves and build our community up. And that's what you know,
Speaker 1: That's why I think the work that both of you
Speaker 1: are doing is just so important, so important. Why do
Speaker 1: you feel like it's important to mentor our black youth?
Speaker 1: Both of you. John, Let's start with you. We live
Speaker 1: in a society now where it is easy, see to
Speaker 1: be this individual you know, we're in a very individualist society.
Speaker 1: It can be an oxymoron because we live this society
Speaker 1: where everybody is for themselves and they talk about how
Speaker 1: great I'm doing until something bad happens and then they
Speaker 1: reach for the community and say where is the community?
Speaker 1: But they spent the whole life saying I'm an individual,
Speaker 1: so I don't need the community. Until you need them.
Speaker 1: And so I think that we need to start looking
Speaker 1: back at the community as a whole and saying where
Speaker 1: can I chip in. I know that it can be
Speaker 1: overwhelming because there's so much to do you you and
Speaker 1: you end up becoming paralyzed with the paradox of choice.
Speaker 1: There's so many choices that you could take that you
Speaker 1: just sit and look at all of them. It's like
Speaker 1: watching like turning on Netflix and scrolling through for forty
Speaker 1: five minutes trying to figure out what you're gonna watch,
Speaker 1: and then just turning it off. Let me just let
Speaker 1: me just interject my feeling in this though, because I
Speaker 1: feel almost like there's so much devastation in the community.
Speaker 1: There's so much going on that you don't know where
Speaker 1: to beget. You don't know how to help, you don't
Speaker 1: know what you should be doing. Like you're just overwhelmed
Speaker 1: because there's just you feel like things are just falling apart. Yes,
Speaker 1: I think what you what we have to do is
Speaker 1: to just say what knowledge do I have that I
Speaker 1: can share? Everybody knows something, you know. You don't have
Speaker 1: to know everything. You just have to know something and
Speaker 1: share it. You know, share your expertise, do work on
Speaker 1: this little thing. You know, I don't have all the answers,
Speaker 1: but what I do know about I know about dance.
Speaker 1: I know how it connects people. I know how people
Speaker 1: react to it and how it's therapy. I also know
Speaker 1: now that I've lived in New York and I've dealt,
Speaker 1: you know, wills and deals and dealt with people from
Speaker 1: all different walks of life and education levels that are
Speaker 1: black children, specifically, are the sentences of black freedman. A
Speaker 1: lot of them have the grades to go to top
Speaker 1: schools and are not sent So I'm saying, hey, I'm
Speaker 1: going in to let these children know you are worthy
Speaker 1: to go to these schools, and you should be applying
Speaker 1: to them, because it could be the difference between a
Speaker 1: child and not a child, but a young adult at
Speaker 1: two years old making fifty thousand dollars coming out with
Speaker 1: a college degree or eighty thousand dollars. And with that
Speaker 1: eighty thousand dollars, there's a lot more they can do
Speaker 1: for their community. And I think John is a perfect
Speaker 1: example of what we mean by mentoring, because so when
Speaker 1: we met again, this man flew in like he flew in.
Speaker 1: He wasn't getting paid. He flew in. We met, we
Speaker 1: set up a date, and you couldn't hear a pin drop,
Speaker 1: Like we're talking thirty forty kids all and he's just
Speaker 1: he's sitting down, just talking. It's you know, it's like
Speaker 1: it's like an elder in the community. Everybody's gathered around
Speaker 1: and they were hanging on to every single word. So
Speaker 1: it became something where is okay, I'm gonna have you
Speaker 1: come back again. So then we started pulling kids. We
Speaker 1: gave him, you know, permission, slips, pulled him out of class.
Speaker 1: Now we're gonna talk to him during the school they
Speaker 1: did to meet a different target group, and it became
Speaker 1: just a thing where it's like now school is remote,
Speaker 1: he's in New York. We're meeting over zoom with our
Speaker 1: Black student Union. He wanted to come in with those
Speaker 1: meetings as well. So it was just something where you
Speaker 1: can see the difference he made, and he's hunt down
Speaker 1: these kids, he's reaching out to him, he's talking to
Speaker 1: him on his own personal time. And that's the testament
Speaker 1: to what we mean when it says give back to
Speaker 1: where you're from, because it truly takes a village. What
Speaker 1: were you working on, John before the pandemic. I was
Speaker 1: just last November. I had finally brought to fruition my
Speaker 1: nonprofit called Step into the Light. And when I first
Speaker 1: started that program, it was to create a Steppers program
Speaker 1: for black youth, to take a hundred black kids in
Speaker 1: my city of Jolia, Illinois and teach them to dance
Speaker 1: with one another. Again, that is one of the things
Speaker 1: that we lost, unfortunately to hip hop. You know, when
Speaker 1: hip hop began to usher in, it just used the
Speaker 1: idea of partnered hand dancing, you know, and it turned
Speaker 1: to phase it on out. And so I realized that
Speaker 1: this dance number one is healing to one another. These
Speaker 1: kids need to connect because there is a social disconnect
Speaker 1: because of social media. They don't know how to interact
Speaker 1: with one another and they and so when you shake hands,
Speaker 1: when you hug one another, and when you dance with
Speaker 1: one another, it brings more of a community. But then
Speaker 1: COVID happened there with that other window. So then I
Speaker 1: started my program next level, where my job is to
Speaker 1: make sure that black youth in this city, specifically the
Speaker 1: descendants of black freedmen, are making our given counsel if
Speaker 1: you will, and guidance when it's time to choose careers
Speaker 1: and choose higher education. Make sure that they have access
Speaker 1: to apprenticeships and internships and and all that is available
Speaker 1: because a lot of times they just don't know what's
Speaker 1: out there. So I was gonna say, not only are
Speaker 1: you educating the kids, but you have to educate the
Speaker 1: parents too, because they just don't have the information. You
Speaker 1: really have to educate the parents first, because a lot
Speaker 1: of parents don't understand how bright their child is. Sometimes
Speaker 1: it's it's I've seen time and time again where parents
Speaker 1: will work day and night to provide everything for their child,
Speaker 1: and their child will have straight a's and bees high
Speaker 1: three point four point grade proint average, and then just
Speaker 1: send them to any school or even a junior college,
Speaker 1: not realizing that they could go to Harvard, Yale, Princeton,
Speaker 1: Howard University Florida and them, you know, some of the
Speaker 1: top schools across the country that are ready and waiting
Speaker 1: for them, but they're the kids are not being sent ernest,
Speaker 1: How do you feel like since the pandemic, how have
Speaker 1: you been able to maintain your relationships with your students?
Speaker 1: How is that working for you? Having to teach online? Admittedly,
Speaker 1: it's been very difficult. It's actually a couple of different phases.
Speaker 1: The first time was in March, of course, when everything
Speaker 1: shut down and we were struggling to get our kids,
Speaker 1: you know, show up and turn their work, and we
Speaker 1: weren't really sure what that Zoom schedule was gonna look like.
Speaker 1: And that was the new school year has started and
Speaker 1: we're like four weeks in. We have a consistent schedule.
Speaker 1: And I will say this, you just never know what
Speaker 1: you're being prepared for because I have been involved. It's
Speaker 1: um mentoring group, this this accountability group, I should say.
Speaker 1: And we would get up on Zoom every morning breathe University,
Speaker 1: and we would talk about our goals and things like that.
Speaker 1: And I have been doing that since teen. So now
Speaker 1: when I'm on Zoom every morning with these kids for
Speaker 1: four or five hours, it was really nothing for me
Speaker 1: to switch in terms of getting them engage, finding different
Speaker 1: ways to connect, you know, playing music through my speaker.
Speaker 1: I'm allowning with them to pick the music that we play.
Speaker 1: I got, you know, I have a bill that I
Speaker 1: ring every time the class starts. So I got my
Speaker 1: whole little setup there. So now I will say this down.
Speaker 1: The issue is I bring the energy. But the issue
Speaker 1: is you miss out on that connection. I can't high
Speaker 1: five a kid. I can't. Yeah, there are certain kids
Speaker 1: that still don't want to show their face. So I'm
Speaker 1: finding different ways to be creative. I'm telling kids, Okay,
Speaker 1: let's play a game. Everybody screen off. Now, if you
Speaker 1: can't relate to this, turn your screen on. They get
Speaker 1: caught up and they're like old, snap, gotta cut it
Speaker 1: back off. So just different ways like that and being
Speaker 1: able to conference with them helps. But I will say this,
Speaker 1: it's an empty feeling because at the end of the
Speaker 1: day you're not able to have that conversation with them
Speaker 1: as they leave, you're not able to see your former
Speaker 1: kids in the hallway, and when that last bill rings metaphorically,
Speaker 1: you're just sitting in your office like okay. And I've
Speaker 1: shared this with John a lot. This man. It's rough.
Speaker 1: It's rough. It's really rough. And I will say the
Speaker 1: only benefit is you do give a little more time
Speaker 1: in the morning and your day ends early. But with
Speaker 1: that said, it adds another weapon to our repertoire because
Speaker 1: if we can reach kids this way, to me, we
Speaker 1: can do anything as a community, you know, And I
Speaker 1: really have to give both of you. Kudos, you know
Speaker 1: for the work that you're doing. I really do because
Speaker 1: it is so important. Like you know, I don't want
Speaker 1: to sound corny, but the kids are our future, like
Speaker 1: for real, you know, and we've got to take care
Speaker 1: of them. And I want you to go back a
Speaker 1: little bit, Earnest, just and talk about how because when
Speaker 1: you first enter college, you you didn't go to college
Speaker 1: to become a teacher, So how did that become your path? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So I was actually I was thinking about this yesterday.
Speaker 1: The reason why I didn't fully succumb to wanting to
Speaker 1: be an athlete, although for a big part of my
Speaker 1: life I did want to be a basketball player. I
Speaker 1: always had the parallel narrative to me was you're going
Speaker 1: to college. My parents said, you're going to college. You're
Speaker 1: going to college. So whether you play sports or whatever,
Speaker 1: you're going to school. So once those hoop dreams, Thistle,
Speaker 1: I still know what was going knew I was going
Speaker 1: to school, but it was like what am I about
Speaker 1: to pick? What am I going to study? Now? Just
Speaker 1: so happens, my mom is an educator, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: my others an educator, So I have a I come
Speaker 1: from a lineage of people who taught in and believe
Speaker 1: in education. But I still wasn't thinking about it. My
Speaker 1: mindset was I'm the friend people called to vent and
Speaker 1: I just listened. I say, yeah, uh huh, I understand, yep,
Speaker 1: uh huh. So I'm like, maybe I would be a
Speaker 1: good psychologist. You know, I didn't know, you know, and
Speaker 1: for lack of I would say like Dr Phil didn't
Speaker 1: look like me. But I on on TV, so I'm like, hey,
Speaker 1: that might work, So maybe a psychologist. So I went
Speaker 1: to school first semester. I'm doing horrible and I'm too
Speaker 1: involved and you know, I'm going to parties. I'm playing basketball,
Speaker 1: still kicking it with my friends, were playing video games,
Speaker 1: have a tournaments. I mean, it's just everything. And then
Speaker 1: when I have a test, I'll look at my notes
Speaker 1: like literally, I look at them, I read them over
Speaker 1: and I say, I'm ready. Now. I worked in high school,
Speaker 1: but I'm taking tests, and I promise you. In my
Speaker 1: mad class, my grade got lower every single test, and
Speaker 1: then and then and she will put your grade like
Speaker 1: at the top so you can see yourself just flunking.
Speaker 1: And then in my psychology class, which is my major,
Speaker 1: I wasn't doing well either, and I was meeting with
Speaker 1: the professor. So after I did bad, I was on probation.
Speaker 1: I started to reevaluate some things. The disappointment. I have
Speaker 1: more disappointment than myself than my family did. In some ways,
Speaker 1: I feel like they knew I would bounce back, but
Speaker 1: I didn't know if I believe that honestly. So I
Speaker 1: began to think about what can I do? So I
Speaker 1: dropped my major. I started taking history black history courses
Speaker 1: out of curiosity and from I promise you, from that moment,
Speaker 1: I fell in love because every question I had that
Speaker 1: my parents couldn't necessarily answer or the encyclopedia couldn't, my
Speaker 1: professor was saying it, Professor Lane, Professor Abdual outcome out,
Speaker 1: and it was like, Wow, this is it. I need
Speaker 1: to be the person standing in front of them on
Speaker 1: that stage telling kids that you are great, you come
Speaker 1: from royalty, and this is what happened to us, this
Speaker 1: was the this is how they intervened in our progress,
Speaker 1: but this is what we need to do. And from
Speaker 1: that moment, I was sold, and I felt like the
Speaker 1: best way for me to give back to my community
Speaker 1: was to share information and that's just teaching, I mean,
Speaker 1: and you could be an educator in various forms, like
Speaker 1: even having a podcast as you see you want to
Speaker 1: add to that because at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: I just feel, you know, let's get back to what
Speaker 1: this What for me, what the gist of the book
Speaker 1: was for me, was the importance of knowing and understanding
Speaker 1: our Black history, knowing and understanding that we don't know
Speaker 1: who we are. We don't know about this and that's
Speaker 1: by design, you know. We we were brought over here
Speaker 1: from all over the place. And because all of that history,
Speaker 1: all we get in school, all we got in school
Speaker 1: was American history that started with slavery. But that's not
Speaker 1: Black history. Black history does not start with slavery. And
Speaker 1: that is so important in developing and understanding and a
Speaker 1: sense of pride and who we are. And I just
Speaker 1: feel like once we have that, that will help, you know,
Speaker 1: guide us, you know, into living our lives differently and
Speaker 1: understand if we understand who we are as a people,
Speaker 1: as a culture, and it is not a slave. That's
Speaker 1: not all Black history is. It's not. And that's part
Speaker 1: of the problem because even here in America, a lot
Speaker 1: of American culture is black culture because we created it
Speaker 1: and it was taken from us. So getting a child
Speaker 1: to know, yes, about black history, what happened before slavery,
Speaker 1: but also to have a full, truthful understanding of what
Speaker 1: happened while we were here in North America, because there's
Speaker 1: a lot that happened here that they don't talk about
Speaker 1: and that we are not aware of. You know, we
Speaker 1: are made to believe in and perceived as the black
Speaker 1: people that don't have a culture, but we very much
Speaker 1: have a culture. This culture, our culture built, and our
Speaker 1: innovation and our resilience and our artistry built this country.
Speaker 1: All American music that was made in this America in
Speaker 1: America derives from black music created by us. You know. Actually,
Speaker 1: me and Mr Kram were just talking about the fact
Speaker 1: that most people black and white, we'll look at the
Speaker 1: banjo and say, oh, they played that in country music,
Speaker 1: But the banjos from Africa, that is an African instrument
Speaker 1: that in country music. We helped create that music, you know,
Speaker 1: even though we don't really associated and that is part
Speaker 1: of our American history as black people. So a lot
Speaker 1: all that has been kept from us in its time.
Speaker 1: To awaken all that information, if you will, and when
Speaker 1: kids start to understand it and know it, they have
Speaker 1: the foundation to stand on, to go out into the
Speaker 1: world with their chests out and to reach high. So
Speaker 1: I want to go back just a little bit, just
Speaker 1: because we were talking about education and mentoring and since COVID,
Speaker 1: since the pandemic, you know, the disparity in the education
Speaker 1: system is so prevalent. So now you have you know,
Speaker 1: parents trying to teach their students at home, teach their
Speaker 1: kids at home, kids not having laptops. You want to
Speaker 1: speak on that earnest, like how difficult that must be
Speaker 1: for particularly the African American community that you know don't
Speaker 1: have the equipment, and you know that they need to
Speaker 1: make to make it happen. Definitely, I think what COVID
Speaker 1: did more than anything is it exposed America even more
Speaker 1: than it was already being exposed. When everything had to stop.
Speaker 1: It was almost like that burglar in the night and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the lights come on and he's
Speaker 1: just sitting there. You got me. I've been taking everything
Speaker 1: out your pocket, you know, I've been taking everything out
Speaker 1: your room, all your jewelry. It's like these again. From
Speaker 1: fo up until this point, I think people have to
Speaker 1: really understand that these they are law. This whole system
Speaker 1: is built on making us believe that we are inferior
Speaker 1: no other group of people, like all these traps are
Speaker 1: it's on. We're on the track, and all the traps
Speaker 1: are set up down and your path on the track,
Speaker 1: your path and your path only not to say other
Speaker 1: groups haven't had certain hurdles, but we're talking every decade,
Speaker 1: every president, they're they're putting up certain barriers to stop
Speaker 1: us from progressing. And yet and still we persevere. But
Speaker 1: still there's a system, and we're only thirteen cent of
Speaker 1: the population, so it's very difficult. We're able to see
Speaker 1: now with COVID the health disparities. Now, let's talk about
Speaker 1: the school system and what they're feeding our kids that's
Speaker 1: not top of the line food. And then when they
Speaker 1: leave where they're going to the corner store, the chicken shop,
Speaker 1: the year roll place. You know that then that there
Speaker 1: aren't places in our neighborhood that are actually feeding us.
Speaker 1: And we're talking spiritually, mentally all of that type of stuff.
Speaker 1: We're talking about a school system that has not adapted
Speaker 1: since the early nineteen hundreds. If you look at a
Speaker 1: picture of schooling in like compared to now, kids are
Speaker 1: sitting down, you know, kids are fifty minutes or forty
Speaker 1: five minutes like that. That's unbearable. I can't it's because
Speaker 1: I'll tell my students when we're doing zoom, I tell
Speaker 1: my students, I gotta stand up for a second. I
Speaker 1: don't know how y'all do it all day. You know,
Speaker 1: we've had issues where even in Chicago where I'm from,
Speaker 1: where the previous mayor round and Manual closed fifty schools
Speaker 1: in about a year. So like these disparities were there,
Speaker 1: but people were because we don't care that much as
Speaker 1: a society as a whole until we see the end result,
Speaker 1: until we see the tumor. But the cancer has been simmering.
Speaker 1: We have old books. When I was student teaching, I
Speaker 1: was using economics books from the eighties and I started
Speaker 1: student teaching in two thousand and ten. Like when we
Speaker 1: started remote learning, all of these kids have to go
Speaker 1: pick up tablets because they don't always have access to
Speaker 1: these things in their neighborhood, in their schools. So to me,
Speaker 1: COVID has exposed us and we cannot. We have to
Speaker 1: make sure that we keep the cover off of and
Speaker 1: now keep the light on the burglar, and let's make
Speaker 1: sure that we replace these institutions with something that's actually equitable,
Speaker 1: because the disparity was already there, particularly between public school
Speaker 1: and private school, and now it's just worse. Exactly exactly, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we talked about it a little bit. But even if
Speaker 1: you don't have a big platform, what are the ways
Speaker 1: that you can still contribute besides giving monetarily. That's a
Speaker 1: great question. And again I'm going to circle back to
Speaker 1: a conversation that I had with John. I'm sure he's
Speaker 1: gonna chime in, but I believe that I think that
Speaker 1: sometimes we create hurdles that even there in terms of
Speaker 1: giving back. So anybody can sign up for a local
Speaker 1: nonprofit organization to mentor somebody you can yourself, contact your
Speaker 1: old school. Let me just say, let me just say
Speaker 1: that I did try to do that, I did not
Speaker 1: do well. So that's what I'm asking, What are the
Speaker 1: other ways that we can contribute because my experience with
Speaker 1: mentoring did not go well? You know, I just I
Speaker 1: just found out my my my sister was in a
Speaker 1: mentoring program and I tried to participate in that, and
Speaker 1: I just I didn't do well with it. I'm not
Speaker 1: somebody who's very patient and you know, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: not necessarily a kid friendly kind of person, and these
Speaker 1: were like preteen teenagers. Yeah, and I didn't do well.
Speaker 1: You know, you also have to know what you're what
Speaker 1: you're abilities, your capabilities and limitations are, because because everything
Speaker 1: is not for you exactly exactly, you have to know.
Speaker 1: So even if you might not do well one on one,
Speaker 1: but you might be called in on like a panel
Speaker 1: of three or four people, you know, to talk to
Speaker 1: a group and just talk about your experiences, you might
Speaker 1: do well in that setting. You know, what I think
Speaker 1: to understand is that your story is actually twenty times
Speaker 1: more valuable than any money that you give. People need
Speaker 1: to hear people. These kids need to hear stories from
Speaker 1: people that look like them. So because children believe what
Speaker 1: they see. And so when they see someone that has
Speaker 1: made it out and made something of themselves and they
Speaker 1: talk about you know, the ins and outs and you know,
Speaker 1: mistakes they made and in opportunities they were given that
Speaker 1: they took, well, then they say it's possible for me.
Speaker 1: Good point it was. This was such a great conversation. Really,
Speaker 1: thank you guys so much. Is there any last comments
Speaker 1: that you want to make before I move on to
Speaker 1: the last part of this podcast, Show up, put your
Speaker 1: shoes on, and show up. I like that. I like
Speaker 1: that Earnest education begins at home. We have to take
Speaker 1: a hundred percent accountability because we cannot expect them to
Speaker 1: do better when we've seen the past. We've seen the
Speaker 1: rap sheet over the course over four a hundred years.
Speaker 1: So now let's do what we gotta do. There you go.
Speaker 1: So it's now time for my favorite segment. Wouldn't you
Speaker 1: like to know where you answer three rapid fire questions
Speaker 1: with the first phrase that comes to your mind. Okay,
Speaker 1: We're gonna start with you, John. What books are you
Speaker 1: currently reading? What books? I'm actually currently reading a Black
Speaker 1: History Saved My Life And the next book and read
Speaker 1: is Cast, which is by the next book by Isabel
Speaker 1: Bookerson that is on my list. What about you, Earnest?
Speaker 1: Of course I'm reading Black History Saved My Life. And
Speaker 1: by the way, everybody, the book is available on Amazon,
Speaker 1: and truly speaking, I really this is a book that
Speaker 1: I recommend that black families read, particularly if you have
Speaker 1: preteens and teenagers. It's a book that you can actually
Speaker 1: read with your child because it is really important. Go ahead, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just got finished reading Stamped. I'm also reading that
Speaker 1: non violent stuff and gets You Killed, which provides a
Speaker 1: counter narrative to the non violent protests. It just gives
Speaker 1: you a more nuanced view of how we were able
Speaker 1: to gain liberation throughout the American history. Interesting. Cool? Okay, John,
Speaker 1: what's a motto you live by? We all play the fool,
Speaker 1: and we will play different fools throughout our lifetime, but
Speaker 1: the goal is never to play the same fool twice.
Speaker 1: Who are you better? Come for it? There we go?
Speaker 1: I love that. Say that again. We all played the fool,
Speaker 1: and we will play different types of fools throughout our lifetime,
Speaker 1: but the goal is never to play the same fool twice. Ernest,
Speaker 1: what's the matter you live by? That's a hard act
Speaker 1: to follow, but for me, it is if you don't
Speaker 1: know who you are, anyone can name you, and if
Speaker 1: anyone can name you your answer to anything. I like
Speaker 1: that too. That's a good one. Wow. Yeah, y'all one
Speaker 1: point today. Okay, all right, So the last and final question, John,
Speaker 1: what's one thing you want to get off your chest?
Speaker 1: One thing that I want to get off my chest
Speaker 1: vote during the local elections like you vote during the
Speaker 1: huge presidential elections. People do not understand that, you know,
Speaker 1: there's actually a lot of miseducation. A lot of our
Speaker 1: people feel that because they feel that the presidential election
Speaker 1: is rigged. It all voting is rigged, and because of
Speaker 1: electoral college and so on and so forth. But elections
Speaker 1: don't have anything to do with the electoral college. It
Speaker 1: is by popular vote, and so we need people to
Speaker 1: show up. And I think it is very um disheartening
Speaker 1: that people can talk all day about the president and
Speaker 1: of course the upper realm of politics, but they don't
Speaker 1: know who the people, the names of the people on
Speaker 1: their city council or their school board, you know that
Speaker 1: are making decisions that affect their lives directly every day.
Speaker 1: Show your asses up to the local election, earnest one
Speaker 1: thing you want to get off your chest. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: would definitely echo that we have to turn up in
Speaker 1: our county where we both live. Turnout. Actually it's probably
Speaker 1: a little bit less than I think it might be
Speaker 1: between ten and and besides that, I would just say
Speaker 1: we have to vote for ourselves every day. So in
Speaker 1: between vote and every two years, every four years or
Speaker 1: six years for the Senate. We have to make sure
Speaker 1: that we have the same expectations for ourselves in our household,
Speaker 1: in our community, and again, more than any other time
Speaker 1: in history, we have to really understand the importance of
Speaker 1: knowing who we are, knowing our place and black people.
Speaker 1: If you listening to this, you are amazing, You are regal,
Speaker 1: you are bold, you are beautiful, and we can get
Speaker 1: through this, and we will get through this. We just
Speaker 1: have to believe it and keep on pushing. Absolutely, Thank
Speaker 1: you guys so much. Once again, this was absolutely a
Speaker 1: pressure pleasure. John and Ernest. Before we wrap up, please
Speaker 1: tell my listens where they can find you on social
Speaker 1: media and anything you have you want to highlight that's
Speaker 1: coming up for either one of you. Okay, I'll start,
Speaker 1: but you can find me on Instagram and my I
Speaker 1: G account is at sign j O h N l
Speaker 1: u c A S number four real so John Lucas
Speaker 1: for real. And you can also check out my nonprofit
Speaker 1: website which is www dot step letter in number two
Speaker 1: the lights dot com that is st e p letter
Speaker 1: in number two the light dot com. And for myself,
Speaker 1: you can find me on Instagram and Twitter at m
Speaker 1: R Cram three. I'm on Facebook at m R Cram
Speaker 1: with three Eyes for the third. You can also visit
Speaker 1: my website Ernest Cram dot com. You can also find
Speaker 1: me on the local PBS Divided We Fall show. I
Speaker 1: think that would be a great show for people to
Speaker 1: watch for the upcoming election and showing people from the
Speaker 1: left and the right coming together and having conversations. And
Speaker 1: you can hopefully find me at your local school or
Speaker 1: I guess local zoom because I like to call myself
Speaker 1: for a black history advocate, you know, a black history
Speaker 1: preacher maybe, but you can find me. So you have
Speaker 1: a program coming up on PBS. I was a cast
Speaker 1: member on the show called The Body We Fall. We
Speaker 1: recorded it like last year, but January twenty nineteen, and
Speaker 1: it's about us having conversations with people on the other
Speaker 1: side of the eye. So we can probably find that
Speaker 1: one demand. You can google it and to pop up.
Speaker 1: It's been showing a different cities since April. Awesome, all right, guys,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Thank you once again to my
Speaker 1: guests John Lucas and Ernest Krim. The third, I just
Speaker 1: want to remind you that Black History Saved My Life
Speaker 1: is available on Amazon dot com and for my takeaways
Speaker 1: from this episode, I want to read another passage from
Speaker 1: ernest book, and to me, this is probably the passage
Speaker 1: that resonated the very most to me after having read
Speaker 1: the entire book. The Birthplates of all Mankind Africa. Make
Speaker 1: sure they are proud of it so they don't associate
Speaker 1: it with poverty, starving children and aids. Teach them that
Speaker 1: they are equal, not in theory or to all human beings,
Speaker 1: regardless of color. Teach them to love their bronze colored
Speaker 1: skin and gloriously nappy hair because it is a gift
Speaker 1: from God, a result of our ability to adapt biologically.
Speaker 1: Teach them to love one another and let them know
Speaker 1: that they are entitled to greatness, the type of greatness
Speaker 1: that does not begin or end with high end fashion
Speaker 1: or other material items. If you're white, teach your children
Speaker 1: that they aren't better than anybody and that they aren't
Speaker 1: entitled to something just because of their skin color. Teach
Speaker 1: them about a heritage and ancestry that extends beyond the
Speaker 1: label of whiteness. Teach them their European history and how
Speaker 1: its roots extend to African civilization. They'll learn about the
Speaker 1: supposed greatness of America by proxy as soon as they
Speaker 1: walk into a school, turn on the TV, or attend
Speaker 1: the sporting event. So teach them about the repulsive history
Speaker 1: of this country that lives in the shadows, the history
Speaker 1: that made Hit the crowd to cite America as an
Speaker 1: inspiration for his treatment of the Jews. I want to
Speaker 1: see America evolved to being better than this, but we
Speaker 1: must be honest and admit that the tree has not
Speaker 1: made it to that point yet, will it ever. So
Speaker 1: we understand why we don't know our true history. That
Speaker 1: is all by design, but now it's our responsibility to
Speaker 1: learn it for ourselves and pass it on. If you're
Speaker 1: listening on Apple Podcasts, be sure to rate and review
Speaker 1: the episode. Follow me on my Instagram at Gammy Nards
Speaker 1: to share with me your thoughts on the episode. I'm here,
Speaker 1: I'm talking, and I'm listening, and as always, folks, stay
Speaker 1: grateful positively. Gam is produced by Westbrook Audio. Executive producers
Speaker 1: Adrian vam Bilnaris, Jada Pinkett Smith, Amanda Brown, and Ballon Jetho,
Speaker 1: Co executive producer Sam Hotel, Associate producer Erica Ron and
Speaker 1: Crystal Devon's editor and mixer Calvin Baylifft. Positively, gam is
Speaker 1: in partnership with Art nineteen. That's about prot