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Speaker 1: Let's get into it. Rare Stabs, it's been a minute.

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Speaker 1: What's up, Kaitlin, It has been a minute.

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Speaker 2: And you know a lot of people have been tweeting

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Speaker 2: at me, tweeting at you, tweeting at us, asking the

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Speaker 2: inevitable question of when are you guys going to do

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Speaker 2: another pod? And we would like to apologize to you

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Speaker 2: all because we are lazy. I mean, that's just spottom line.

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Speaker 2: We're not lazy. Actually that's not true. Caitlin is working

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Speaker 2: very very hard on a lot of different projects and

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Speaker 2: various things. I finished up my TV show a week

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Speaker 2: just last week. We've just been busy doing other things

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Speaker 2: and sometimes it's really hard for you, Caitlyn and i'd

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Speaker 2: actually find an hour of our sleeve to talk about tennis.

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Speaker 1: I will say thank you for giving us some because

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Speaker 1: it's not for lack of interest or serving you, the

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Speaker 1: people who listen to this podcast with our insights. But

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Speaker 1: I do feel, especially in light of what I have

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Speaker 1: no doubt we're going to get into in the last

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Speaker 1: two three weeks on the tour, that we've already talked

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Speaker 1: about a lot of this stuff because we saw it

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Speaker 1: coming and we call it. Gives me no pleasure whatsoever

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Speaker 1: to say that we had highlighted a number of the issues,

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Speaker 1: particularly on the WTA tour side of things, months ago.

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Speaker 3: In fact, you will be encouraged to take.

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Speaker 1: A tiny strive through the archives and you will be

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Speaker 1: hard pressed not to find a podcast episode where we say, hey,

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Speaker 1: everything in tennis is great from a governing body standpoint,

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Speaker 1: and those guys are doing great, and no critiques here, because.

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Speaker 3: The truth is this was a slow motion train wreck.

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Speaker 2: It was, as we like to say in the very

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Speaker 2: uneducated world, a shit show down in.

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Speaker 3: King Now let me start with the positives.

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Speaker 1: Yes, let's do that, because I was thrilled and the

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Speaker 1: WTA just does deserve a lot of kudos for not

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Speaker 1: bowing to significant pressure to send this thing to Saudi

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Speaker 1: Arabia this year. That's not to say they will not

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Speaker 1: send a future thing to Saudi Arabia. That's not to

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Speaker 1: say that Saudi Arabia doesn't remain a very interested party

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Speaker 1: in getting into tennis. They are hosting the next Gen

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Speaker 1: tournament I think starting next year on the men's side,

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Speaker 1: so exhibitions, etc. So I don't think we've heard the

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Speaker 1: last of Saudi Arabia. That said, given the amount of

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Speaker 1: money that Saudi Arabia was reported to be offering, and

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Speaker 1: given the fact that there are significant concerns among many

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Speaker 1: many stakeholders, I am impressed that the WTA did not

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Speaker 1: bow to pressure and make that decision or ram that

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Speaker 1: decision through, but instead found a country that is very,

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Speaker 1: very notable in its enthusiasm for hosting tennis events, particularly

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Speaker 1: women's tennis. So that's the selection of Cancun on paper

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Speaker 1: was great. I thought the color of the court was great.

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Speaker 1: I thought the field was great, and I thought a

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Speaker 1: lot of the matches, while not the highest quality of

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Speaker 1: tennis for reasons that again we'll get into. You know,

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Speaker 1: the field demonstrated their greatness and their ability to withstand adversity.

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Speaker 1: So those are the positives I feel like that we

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Speaker 1: can say, at least WTA side, because keep in mind,

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Speaker 1: we're recording this ahead of the ATP finals, so we

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Speaker 1: don't know exactly how that shakes out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, do you do you leave just the negative? To me?

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Speaker 2: Is this is this where we're going with this? Like

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Speaker 2: you're just gonna give all the positives and then you're

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Speaker 2: just gonna but what did you think, Renette, Is that

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Speaker 2: what you're doing to me.

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Speaker 3: What did you think?

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Speaker 2: Pretty much? Yeah, see, there we go. Think listen. I

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Speaker 2: just cannot say enough about Mexican tennis fans in general. Okay,

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Speaker 2: first of all, I'm going to start on the positives

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Speaker 2: as well, Like every single night match at any Mexican

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Speaker 2: tournament is just jam packed. It's awesome. The crowds are great,

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Speaker 2: the positivity that they have. They they're they're they're a

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Speaker 2: fair crowd. They're fully invested in, you know, having great tennis.

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Speaker 2: And you didn't give that to them because you didn't

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Speaker 2: provide them a place to play the WTAF finals where

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Speaker 2: it was going to bring the best tennis out in

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Speaker 2: the best tennis players in the world. When you're talking

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Speaker 2: about Cancun at this time of the year, Jesus are

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Speaker 2: you're going to get wind and rain. That's just my guess.

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Speaker 2: Not a great time to have it there. I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure why the you know, mast you know, haste to

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Speaker 2: get it there at that time of the year was

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Speaker 2: a good idea. We've only played outside in the WTAF

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Speaker 2: finals twice in the history of the WTAF finals have

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Speaker 2: always been indoors. You think about Madison Square Garden to

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Speaker 2: the La Staples Center to indoors and Madrid to indoors,

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Speaker 2: in Turkey to indoors, in Singapore to indoors and Shenzen.

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Speaker 2: I mean I could go on indoors and Munich like

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Speaker 2: I played in thirteen of them. I never played outside

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Speaker 2: except in Doha, and Doha has a bit of an

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Speaker 2: issue with wind sometimes because you're in the desert. But

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Speaker 2: you're not going to get rain, you know what I mean. So, yes,

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Speaker 2: you're going to have some shitty matches based on you know,

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Speaker 2: some really horrendous wind conditions which you can get and Doha,

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Speaker 2: trust me when I tell you some of the worst

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Speaker 2: I've ever played in. But you're not going to get

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Speaker 2: a delay in a match because of the rain. And

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Speaker 2: when you have a certain amount of matches, and a

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Speaker 2: lot of them back to back to back to back

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Speaker 2: every day, you better make sure that you get those

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Speaker 2: matches done that day. And so when you take a

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Speaker 2: chance of putting it outside, you better make sure that

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Speaker 2: there's not going to be rain. And the fact that

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Speaker 2: they built that court and the little players of the

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Speaker 2: WTA Finals didn't get to hit on the main court

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Speaker 2: at all until the day of the first match is

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Speaker 2: absolutely fucking ridiculous. So it's add you can say whatever

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Speaker 2: you want. And I want to absolutely praise the tournament

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Speaker 2: in Cancun for getting the court laid down with the

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Speaker 2: little amount of time that they had, and get the

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Speaker 2: facility up and running and going and the hotel and

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Speaker 2: all that sort of stuff. But the players, I mean,

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Speaker 2: the court was coming apart in the last couple of days.

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Speaker 2: They were standing down holes in the court. Which it's

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Speaker 2: not really the fault of the person that laid the

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Speaker 2: court down, I have to say because and I said

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Speaker 2: this to you on my tenant on my show, my

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Speaker 2: TV show, I was like, it's very hard to lay

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Speaker 2: a court down that quickly in weather conditions like that

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Speaker 2: and know that the court's going to be perfect because

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Speaker 2: you're going to have rain, you're gonna have wind, you're

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Speaker 2: gonna have all this shit. So all the stuff underneath

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Speaker 2: the court doesn't lay properly. Because if you've ever made

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Speaker 2: a tennis court, it's very scientific. You have to lay

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Speaker 2: it down. You can't have all the elements like getting

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Speaker 2: bubbled underneath and water underneath, and so the court, of

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Speaker 2: course it's going to start falling apart. Essentially, that court

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Speaker 2: is going to be like in six months time might

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Speaker 2: even be recognizable. So you've got to be able to

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Speaker 2: have the court laid down enough time that gives it time.

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Speaker 2: This strain open was laid down probably months ago, you

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Speaker 2: know what I mean. So like that's just the way

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Speaker 2: it is. So the fact that you put the organization

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Speaker 2: in Kancu under that much pressure and pissed away money

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Speaker 2: out of the coffers of the WTA where they don't

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Speaker 2: have money to put that court down and that facility

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Speaker 2: is just outrageous to me. I don't understand. And then

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Speaker 2: you know, thankfully we had decent crowds at night in

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Speaker 2: the latter part. But you're not giving people enough time

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Speaker 2: to book their tea, kids, book their hotels, book someone

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Speaker 2: to take care of their dogs, you know that they're

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Speaker 2: leaving at home, or their kids that are there leaving

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Speaker 2: at home, or you know, like like people plan a

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Speaker 2: year or two in advance to go to an event

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Speaker 2: like that, and you're not giving them that time. So

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Speaker 2: you're stopping people going there and buying tickets. God love

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Speaker 2: our tennis fans because body held. There's a lot of

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Speaker 2: people that jump on the plane and went down to

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Speaker 2: cancer at the last minute and good for you. But also,

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Speaker 2: as we saw Eliza Wistcoat, I don't know if you

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Speaker 2: follow her on TikTok and Instagram, she's great. Its fantastic

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Speaker 2: little watch and listen. She was like, they're going I

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Speaker 2: had to go home from watching the matches because the

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Speaker 2: wind and the rain was so bad. She's like, I

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Speaker 2: had to go back to my hotel and watch it

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Speaker 2: on the TV. What like come on? Like so, I

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Speaker 2: don't know, Caitline, you and I have been complaining about

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Speaker 2: the leadership of the WTA for quite a while. And

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Speaker 2: when you have a CEO, and I don't want to

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Speaker 2: completely always shit on Steve because he's a lovely guy,

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Speaker 2: but when you're getting paid more than the marketing dollars

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Speaker 2: that are going out for the WTA, I have a

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Speaker 2: problem with that when you are not doing your job.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean I think you know, setting aside

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Speaker 1: the things that are out of the control of the WTA,

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Speaker 1: which is weather and wind, Okay, you know part of

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Speaker 1: that should factor into the decision. But I just I

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Speaker 1: truly don't know why they didn't pick a venue that

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Speaker 1: didn't have a court already yes, like yeah, no, there's

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Speaker 1: no courts or even just like an existing court that

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Speaker 1: maybe you would have to put like a temporary roof

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Speaker 1: over or like, you know, it's just it's just again,

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Speaker 1: what's so insane to me is just the lack of

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Speaker 1: forward planning and the lack of marketing. And it's the

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Speaker 1: same staff where it's like, these are the best players

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Speaker 1: in the world. They're every one of them possessing of

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Speaker 1: a great season again eat dynamic game, and you're really

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Speaker 1: not setting them up to succeed, and you're not giving

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Speaker 1: any kind of conditions for people to go and support

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Speaker 1: them because even though the fans want to, the lack

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Speaker 1: of marketing, the lack of organization, and then some of

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Speaker 1: the stuff that's out of your control but shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: out of your control, like weather is just like ohy,

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Speaker 1: Like if you look at the Billy Jean kinkup which

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Speaker 1: starts today, it started, I guess right now.

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Speaker 3: You know, they.

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Speaker 1: Picked an indoor facility in Seville because there was already

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Speaker 1: a court there and it doesn't matter if it rains

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Speaker 1: or not. And Siville is a city that exists that

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Speaker 1: people can get to and you know, I hope for

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Speaker 1: their sake that they get a good crowd. It seems

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Speaker 1: like the crowds are not bad. But again, like just

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Speaker 1: looking at what the top eight had to put together

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Speaker 1: in eight weeks, maybe less like it's it's sort of unfathomable.

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Speaker 1: And so for me from a just a you said it,

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Speaker 1: Steve Simon gets paid one point three million dollars a year,

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Speaker 1: not including bonuses. I'm sure that doesn't include his expenses,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. The marketing budget is just a little over.

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Speaker 3: A million dollars.

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Speaker 1: When your CEO makes more than the marketing budget, does

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Speaker 1: you better hope that this product markets itself, which, as

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Speaker 1: we know, with only eight weeks, it cannot. So it's

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Speaker 1: just it's just sort of like bad decision over bad

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Speaker 1: decision over bad decision. And I think any industry that

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Speaker 1: were not as I don't know, like inept as the

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Speaker 1: governing bodies in Tennis are perennially proving to be, particularly

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Speaker 1: the WTA, you just keep it moving like, Okay, well

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Speaker 1: it didn't work out. Sorry, man, your job is over.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Steve Simon has one where year in his

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Speaker 1: contract and then it's hard to imagine, oh my god, there, come.

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Speaker 2: On, he's got to just I mean, I'm surprised he

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Speaker 2: didn't walk into the ocean. He can't care. Just going

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Speaker 2: back to Flo's also.

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Speaker 1: Talk about the Do you want to bring up the

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Speaker 1: fact that the players have been trying to get a response?

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Speaker 2: Well, yes, I would like to do that very much though.

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Speaker 2: And also because one of the things I write down

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Speaker 2: on my little pad to talk about today was no

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Speaker 2: statement from Steve on Tennis Channel, didn't get on air,

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Speaker 2: and he put out what a two page and basically

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Speaker 2: and he started it by saying, hi comma, what Hi comma?

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Speaker 2: And then there was also like two I don't know

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Speaker 2: if you saw, because Caitlin, you're smarter than me. The

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Speaker 2: typos in the letter. There was like there was a

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Speaker 2: couple of typos in the letter. So I'm like, first

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Speaker 2: of all, you're putting out a letter. Why are you

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Speaker 2: doing that? You should be on Tennis channel making a statement,

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Speaker 2: putting it out there. What happened? What the deal was?

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Speaker 2: Stop writing a letter and put it, posting it out

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Speaker 2: there and just being like that's good. I'm good with that.

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Speaker 2: Are you good with that? I can tell you right now.

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Speaker 2: There was somebody that I will not mention because I

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Speaker 2: don't like to throw. Well, actually there was a couple

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Speaker 2: a couple of people that were obviously I mean, I'm

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Speaker 2: friends with everybody down there, and I'm getting text messages

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Speaker 2: and messages from people. You know, some people are sending

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Speaker 2: me photos of the court coming apart. Some people were like,

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Speaker 2: you just told me, oh, I ran into Steve last night,

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Speaker 2: and he, you know, tried to say, oh, you know

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Speaker 2: some well, you know, way to get through this week

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Speaker 2: or what like, you know, they don't want to hear

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Speaker 2: from him. They're so over him. It's ridiculous. And so

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Speaker 2: for his sake, he should like Handy's resignation in as

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Speaker 2: far as I'm concerned, because he's lost trust with all

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Speaker 2: of these players. And the fact that I know a

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Speaker 2: player wrote him a letter tried to stay out of

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Speaker 2: the like public shaming and bl wrote him, didn't even

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Speaker 2: get a response.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, what are you You're You're dealing with one of

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Speaker 4: your best players in the world, and you don't even

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Speaker 4: have the audacity to like, hey, let's have a chat

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Speaker 4: and sit down, and I want to discuss that with me.

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Speaker 2: If I'm the CEO of the WTA, I am there

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Speaker 2: every day, I am talking to my players every day,

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Speaker 2: and I'm making sure that they are satisfied in what

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Speaker 2: they're trying to get, and I will make sure that

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Speaker 2: they understand why the ramifications are or the results of

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Speaker 2: why we chose things and give it to them. And

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Speaker 2: I know that, like, for example, a check player told

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Speaker 2: me that the government had given given the okay for

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Speaker 2: a Bella Russian to come in and play, because that

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Speaker 2: was the only concern, because I don't think there were

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Speaker 2: any other Russians.

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Speaker 1: You're talking about how Utrava together put together an alternate

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Speaker 1: pitch to host the phone, which was a better one,

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Speaker 1: even better financially than what Yes Cancun would have offered.

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Speaker 1: And the hitch there was that they were not going

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Speaker 1: to allow Belarussian Russian players, which would have been obviously

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Speaker 1: problematic for Arenas Avalanka. But you're saying that that's not

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Speaker 1: the case, and I've seen it reported elsewhere that that's

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Speaker 1: not the case.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the apparently, from what I heard from this check

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Speaker 2: player was the government had given the okay. Now it

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Speaker 2: happened we had the situation as von A Raver coming

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Speaker 2: into play. I think it was in Prague or might

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Speaker 2: have been Australa. I'm not sure. It was somewhere in

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Speaker 2: the Czech Republic and they turned her away and at

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Speaker 2: the last minute she didn't know. And I'm like, well,

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Speaker 2: she probably should have known, first of all, But second

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Speaker 2: of all, if it's out there in the public and

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Speaker 2: the government has said no, we will allow it. We

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Speaker 2: will make an exception on this one tournament because of

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Speaker 2: whatever reasons, how can you not put it there. It's

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Speaker 2: I mean, and nothing against Mexico because as I've already stated,

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Speaker 2: I want more tournaments in Mexico. And the support was

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Speaker 2: amazing at night, but we're talking about solid crowd support,

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Speaker 2: indoors getting it done on a timely basis. Instead, they're

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Speaker 2: playing a final of a WTA finals on Monday, and

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Speaker 2: then some of those players are flying to the Billy

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Speaker 2: Jean King Cup and having to play the next day,

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Speaker 2: Like what the fuck?

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Speaker 1: Like really, it's it's upsetting, and I think again it

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Speaker 1: speaks to what are we doing as a sport if

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Speaker 1: we aren't listening to our top players who are taking

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Speaker 1: it upon themselves to not only prepare themselves for the tournaments,

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Speaker 1: play their best, make an incredible effort. Obviously they have

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Speaker 1: sponsor obligations, their lives are very complicated and unpredictable to

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Speaker 1: go out of their way to try to get the

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Speaker 1: leadership to lead like it's unacceptable. And kudos to the

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Speaker 1: women in particular on the tour who have been very

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Speaker 1: vocal and trying very hard to just you know, make

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Speaker 1: the case.

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Speaker 2: And also, you know, I.

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Speaker 1: Think they've been quite understanding, like they've been pretty good sports.

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Speaker 1: And so I saw a lot of I saw a

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Speaker 1: lot of blowback this week, including from Ben Rothenberg, who

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Speaker 1: was like, Oh, it's not a good look to complain

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Speaker 1: if you're there. These women shouldn't be complaining. They should

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Speaker 1: be supporting the like.

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Speaker 2: You know, give me a break, no chance, no chance.

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Speaker 2: If I'm there as a WTA top A player and

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Speaker 2: I've worked my ass off all year, I've supported your tournaments.

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Speaker 2: I've gone and played your mandatory WTA one thousands. When

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Speaker 2: I don't want to fucking play because I'm injured or

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Speaker 2: I'm tired, you're forcing me, and you're also finding me okay.

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Speaker 2: And I know several players that were like one player

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Speaker 2: that wanted to play an exhibition before Wimbledon but was told, oh,

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Speaker 2: you have to play this, and then they were given permission.

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Speaker 2: I can tell you a million stories from behind the

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Speaker 2: scenes that I won't because I know agents and I

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Speaker 2: know players, and I know that the history of this tour,

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Speaker 2: and I'm super supportive of the tour. You know how

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Speaker 2: I feel about this. A lot of my friends work there.

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Speaker 2: I only want to support the WTA. Twur Tennis is

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Speaker 2: my favorite sport, clearly, and I wanted to succeed. But

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Speaker 2: when you keep having these absolute complete cockups and you're

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Speaker 2: forcing players to play those events to support your tour,

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Speaker 2: but then you your job is to make sure the

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Speaker 2: best tournament in the year that you control as a

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Speaker 2: WTA is absolutely shit. That is on you. You sorry,

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Speaker 2: So so you know what those players buss are asked

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Speaker 2: to be there and maybe don't want to go and

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Speaker 2: play back to back weeks in Canada and Cincinnati because

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Speaker 2: they're tired, but you're forcing them to because it's in

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Speaker 2: the rules of the wt you must play your mandatory

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Speaker 2: you get a zero point and that hurts your ranking

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Speaker 2: and blah blah blah, and you're forcing them to go

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Speaker 2: and play those tournaments, and yet you're not prepared to

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Speaker 2: put on a tournament at the end of the year.

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Speaker 2: It's worth the work that they have put in for

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Speaker 2: the year for you. Yeah, I mean, I say for you,

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Speaker 2: because yeah, they're abiding by your rules all year long

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Speaker 2: and then they have to abide by that at the

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Speaker 2: end of the year.

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Speaker 1: And also look not for nothing, but also like the

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Speaker 1: fans didn't get a particularly good experience, Like I was

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Speaker 1: pumped to watch so terrible.

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Speaker 2: Jesse Pegoula.

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Speaker 1: I was pumped to watch her in the se blank.

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Speaker 1: I was pumped to watch you know, Marquet Devandrossova. I

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Speaker 1: was pumped to see Ons and and Eger and everybody.

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Speaker 1: And the fact is like the you know again, the

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Speaker 1: weather was unfortunate, but it's just it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: bad product. If the stands are empty, the players are

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Speaker 1: obviously having a bad time, and the frustration is leaking

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Speaker 1: out of every you know, out of every pore with everybody.

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Speaker 1: And I think, you know, again, like after this exceptional

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Speaker 1: tennis season where we saw Ego winning slams, sebal Anca

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Speaker 1: winning slams, Coco winning her first slam, Like tennis could

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Speaker 1: not have been on a bigger high after this summer

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Speaker 1: with Coco, Carlos alcor record set, but Coco in particular,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I think just not people not knowing

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Speaker 1: this thing was on people not being able to watch it,

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Speaker 1: people not being able to visit it, you know, and

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Speaker 1: ken Kun's not like an unfamiliar place that people can't

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Speaker 1: figure out how to get to, particularly in North America,

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Speaker 1: to go support North American players. You know, I don't

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Speaker 1: need a lot of excuses to go to Mexico and

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Speaker 1: yet and yet and yet, and so I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: for me, it's just, you know, what was really unfortunate

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Speaker 1: about it is, you know, I've heard you talk about

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Speaker 1: playing the WTA Tour Finals in Madison Square Garden with

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Speaker 1: the roof coming off because people are so pumped to

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Speaker 1: be there and you're seeing the best players in the

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Speaker 1: world and it's the end of the year and you're

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Speaker 1: you're watching a spectacle. That's what the WTA Tour, owning

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Speaker 1: this event should be considering. And I just, again, I don't.

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Speaker 3: Know why that's something that they are.

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Speaker 1: I have some guesses as to why they're failing, but

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Speaker 1: it's but at this point it's kind of like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you absolutely have to accept responsibility and make a change,

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Speaker 1: because otherwise, what.

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Speaker 2: Are you doing here? Listen, the number one sponsor of

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Speaker 2: the w t A two is he Logic, which is

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Speaker 2: being fantastic that that sponsorship deal came about from Coco

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Speaker 2: Vanderwey's boyfriend playing golf with a dude on a golf

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Speaker 2: course in San Diego. Like nobody from the WTA even

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Speaker 2: brought that deal in, Like so you know, so what

387
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Speaker 2: you will blah blah blah. They're getting there paychecks paid

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Speaker 2: because some guy played golf with some guy you know

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Speaker 2: who wasn't even a part of the WTA tour. So

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Speaker 2: I'm you know, look, you know I snapped when it

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Speaker 2: came to the Madrid trophy ceremony. I've said it now

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Speaker 2: on a couple of other podcasts and things like that,

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Speaker 2: But the trophy ceremony in Madrid where they didn't allow

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Speaker 2: the players to talk after the little shenanigans from Sablenka

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Speaker 2: kind of giving them ship the day before in the

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Speaker 2: singles final, an Eager I think it was eg was

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Speaker 2: an Eager. No, it was sable Anka for sure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm like, and uh yeah, and Azarenka.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and as Aarenka. And so when you had Azarenka

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Speaker 2: in the doubles final next day with hawdaj Maya, and

401
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Speaker 2: you had Coco and Jessica Pagoula, so you've got essentially

402
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Speaker 2: four of your best singles players in the world. You know,

403
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Speaker 2: multiple Grand Slam champion and you know a future Grand

404
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 2: Slam champion and hawdaj Maya, who won you know, the

405
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Speaker 2: jew High Tournament, which by the way, was ten times

406
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Speaker 2: better than Cancun. Your Head tournament was awesome. Let's talk

407
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:56,399
Speaker 2: about amazing matches subject.

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Speaker 1: Amazing matches. Seemed like the crowds were really in to it.

409
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Speaker 1: We got a first time Hadaj Maya, who had a

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Speaker 1: great end of the season despite nearly uh.

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Speaker 2: Hands in a girl the Queen q Kin Win Chang

412
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Speaker 2: Chang when they got to the final, had a great

413
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Speaker 2: in the tournament after getting after getting dumped by Win

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Speaker 2: facet Wim fact, which she was not happy about. And

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Speaker 2: I don't blame her because that was some bullshit.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, that was some bullshit.

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Speaker 1: While we're on the subject of Chinwin gets dumped by Fasset,

418
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Speaker 1: who's going back to Naomi Naomi Osaka.

419
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Speaker 3: Chinwin just goes on a tear.

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Speaker 1: She's like fuck this and just decides to win the

421
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Speaker 1: Pan Asian Games, gets to be the number one player

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Speaker 1: in all of Asia on the women's side on the

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00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,880
Speaker 1: trophy stand along with our favorite zz in the Men's

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Speaker 1: and basically doesn't lose a match until the finals of

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Speaker 1: the w t A Elite Trophy in against Maya like

426
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,439
Speaker 1: hats off, like she was doing some Angela Bassett, you know,

427
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Speaker 1: like waiting to exhale, sort of like you know, setting

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00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:06,919
Speaker 1: a car on fire stuff, which I really appreciate. And

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Speaker 1: I guess, like, you know, not wanting to throw a

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Speaker 1: whims Son under the bus who seems like a lovely guy,

431
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,119
Speaker 1: Like that's not cool, really though, I.

432
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,160
Speaker 2: Think what he did was not good look as a coach,

433
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,400
Speaker 2: and you know, but he had to not here's my thing,

434
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:22,720
Speaker 2: and I would like to talk to him, so I

435
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 2: don't want to completely throw him under the bus. And

436
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,440
Speaker 2: I haven't spoken to him. But when you sign a contract,

437
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,000
Speaker 2: which he clearly did with kin Winnen, and she knew,

438
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:31,720
Speaker 2: and she was like, Okay, we're going to be playing

439
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:33,600
Speaker 2: the whole year and you're under contract to Da Da

440
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 2: Da and then you pull the swifty and go back

441
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,200
Speaker 2: to and not a Taylor swift, but you go back

442
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 2: to Naomi. You knew Naomi was coming back. We all

443
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,480
Speaker 2: knew Naomi was coming back. Naomi said she wanted to

444
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,119
Speaker 2: start playing this strain and open this was months and

445
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 2: months and months ago, So why would you sign that

446
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,919
Speaker 2: contract knowing that Naomi's probably going to come back? Like

447
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 2: I would have said to I would have said to Q, listen,

448
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 2: Naomi comes back and just sides to play in January,

449
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 2: I'm going back to but I'll give you six months.

450
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 2: Like that's yeah, I would have said that. I did

451
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,400
Speaker 2: that with Sam when I was working with during the pandemic,

452
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,159
Speaker 2: and I worked with Genie Bouchard, and I said to Genie,

453
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,680
Speaker 2: look my obligations to to Sam. I am working with Sam,

454
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,679
Speaker 2: but Sam's not traveling because of the pandemic. So I

455
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,920
Speaker 2: can travel with you for X amount of time and

456
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 2: I would like to do that, and I would like

457
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,160
Speaker 2: to spend the time with you. But when Sam comes back,

458
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 2: she's my priority. And so I was upfront with Jeanie.

459
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,120
Speaker 2: And then we went ahead and did what we did,

460
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,199
Speaker 2: and she had success and all that, and Sam came

461
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 2: back and I went back to Sam. But you have

462
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 2: to be upfront when you're a coach in that circumstance.

463
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 2: And so to sign a contract and then go I

464
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 2: got back to Naomi because I feel like she's going

465
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,200
Speaker 2: to win more than you are and pay me more,

466
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 2: because clearly it came down to money, because word on

467
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 2: the street is it when likes the cashola, and it's

468
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,359
Speaker 2: some of the reasons why a lot of people have

469
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 2: flicked him, you know that have had success, like the

470
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,640
Speaker 2: demand for more money. And it's like, okay, listen, if

471
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 2: that's what you want your reputation to be, then good

472
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 2: for you, but not.

473
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 1: Cool, just brutal, especially when you're watching an up and

474
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: coming talent at a really.

475
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 3: Critical part of their career really take off.

476
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 1: But you know what, s Win.

477
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 3: Proved that she doesn't need one for She's doing just

478
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 3: fine and.

479
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 2: She's good either way. And if she wants to know

480
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 2: the coach I am currently free.

481
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 1: Well maybe let's make that happen because obviously she's got

482
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 1: a lot of.

483
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:22,479
Speaker 3: Fans, myself included.

484
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 1: We should as we always do. But as a footnote,

485
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: maybe talk about the men a tiny bit. Obviously they

486
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:29,360
Speaker 1: were in Paris this week.

487
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 2: Again.

488
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 3: You know what one thousand Master's one thousand title.

489
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 2: A couple of couple of things. Let's start with the positive,

490
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,679
Speaker 2: first incredible week from Novak comes back after you know

491
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 2: us open place. You know, this is where these players

492
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 2: when they get older and they get they're better. They

493
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 2: just can pick and choose the tournaments they want to play.

494
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 2: And so I think he did such a smart thing,

495
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 2: knowing he'd had a long year, he's having a fantastic year,

496
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 2: winsy us so Open, and just decides to play, you know,

497
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 2: and win Paris, because why not an atop one thousand

498
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 2: and he will. He will win the ATP finals again,

499
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 2: I'm fairly certain of that. I think the only person

500
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 2: that can beat him is maybe Sinner. I think he's

501
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 2: playing that well. I give janicks In a ton of

502
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 2: credit for him the last couple of months. He's played

503
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 2: really well. Very disappointing for him at the US Open

504
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 2: when he last I know, and I think Darren and

505
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,640
Speaker 2: that team has done a really good job of getting

506
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 2: him just he's just better and better, and he's going

507
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 2: to and he needs to implement coming into the net

508
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 2: a little bit more drop shots, all the things that

509
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 2: al KaAZ can do, because he has the baseline game

510
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 2: for sure, but he has to have that little bit

511
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 2: of variety, and I think that that's the only way

512
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 2: he sort of can beat someone like Novak. He has

513
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 2: to have a bit more variety and coming to that

514
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 2: something that Alcarez does when he's healthy. So I think

515
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 2: Yanik Sinn is going to win a Grand Slam next

516
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 2: year or if not next year, within the next twenty

517
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 2: four months for sure. In my opinion, I think he's

518
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 2: so good and he's such a great guy. Alcoraz, my

519
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 2: only concern is these injuries to keep popping up. I'm

520
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 2: telling you it's going to it's not good and I

521
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 2: think it's going to really hurt his career if he

522
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 2: doesn't get it under control. But Novak, i'mbelieving. But can

523
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 2: we talk about when we're going to give shit to

524
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 2: the WTA? Can we give some shit today? A top Absolutely,

525
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 2: what are you doing scheduling six matches on a cent

526
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 2: at one court like ter when it's a medium slow

527
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 2: court clearly or at best medium, And these guys are

528
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 2: playing fifty ball rallies. They're lasting three hours because they

529
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,120
Speaker 2: don't have wind and rain to deal with, so they're

530
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 2: like actually playing real tennis. And it's like there're three

531
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 2: hour matches and you're playing six of them on a

532
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,880
Speaker 2: court and you you you wonder why Yenick Sinner finishes

533
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 2: a match at ten to three in the morning, doesn't

534
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 2: get to bed till probably five ish and doesn't come

535
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 2: back and play that same day. Are you really have

536
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 2: in mind? What are they doing again?

537
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 1: What are we doing to optimize the player experience? What

538
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: are we doing to optimize the fan experience?

539
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 2: And how?

540
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 3: How should we?

541
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: I get why you want to sell Nate tickets and

542
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: have an extra session. The Nate ticket situation in tennis

543
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: has been, I think long a problem, and I get

544
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 1: why all the slams are now starting to do it.

545
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: I get while the tournaments are doing it, But.

546
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 2: Caitlin, the ninth session is fine if you're starting at

547
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 2: six am or seven am, at seven pm, that's okay.

548
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: Like when you have six matches a day, the eighth

549
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,239
Speaker 1: session becomes a problem, doesn't it?

550
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 3: And so for me, right, make the tournament a day longer?

551
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like again the no no fast six

552
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 2: matches my friend on one fucking court, Okay, I have

553
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 2: played a billion, mate, I've played a billion indoor matches, okay,

554
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 2: And I been you know, predominantly put on often last

555
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 2: on on center court as a doubles player, right because

556
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 2: they always play a singles match at seven and then

557
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 2: they you know, in case something happens in singles. They

558
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 2: always want to have a match, so they often used

559
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 2: to put double second on, so I would go on

560
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 2: the court all the time at ten thirty eleven o'clock.

561
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, fuck it, that's what I deal with.

562
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 2: That's what it is, right. But when you're playing six

563
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 2: singles matches on an indoor court, yeah, you ain't getting

564
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 2: up the court until two am or three am, which

565
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 2: is what happened. So how is that even happening? And

566
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 2: you talk about the fan experiences, yeah, I mean there

567
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 2: was amazing. I couldn't believe how many people were still

568
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 2: there at two thirty two forty five to watch the watch.

569
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 2: But you expect a player to come back that same

570
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 2: day and play a match when he has ATV finals

571
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 2: in a week in two in in his home country.

572
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 2: He ain't putting himself at risk. So you you fucked

573
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 2: yourself by having terrible schedule. You lost one of your

574
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:25,199
Speaker 2: best players because he pulled out, And what are you

575
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 2: doing to help the future of your tour by doing

576
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 2: something like that? Is outrageous. So there should be another

577
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 2: court playing a match on another court or that's it.

578
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 2: I mean, I just I literally was sitting here Kaitlin

579
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 2: at home. You and I live in New York, and

580
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 2: I'm looking at the scores on at website, you know,

581
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 2: WTAATV website, and I see that Sinner is a set

582
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 2: like two to one in the third. I'm like, what

583
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 2: it was like, I don't know what the time was,

584
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 2: like maybe eight o'clock at night here in New York.

585
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, yeah, I'm okay. So I

586
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 2: text Darren Cahill and he tips me back. He goes,

587
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 2: Yah's still happening, Like what, hang on? It's two uncons

588
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 2: How is the egos? It's so fucked up?

589
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: No, unconscionable, there's no and for what reason, right, Like,

590
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: obviously these matches important. Obviously there's a lot on the

591
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,719
Speaker 1: line points and money and you know, prep for the

592
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 1: for the HP Tour finals. But again to your point, like,

593
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: if these tournaments are meant to connect to each other,

594
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: if this is meant to be a season, then having

595
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: some compassion for the bodies of these players, especially to

596
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: your point, thirty forty to fifty ball rallies over the

597
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,239
Speaker 1: course of three hours for three set matches. These are

598
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: three set matches. This is not a best of five competition.

599
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: And yeah, I'm good for Center for honestly pulling out

600
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: and saying something like I think what if nothing else

601
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:47,719
Speaker 1: This year has shown us from a sort of blatant

602
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: disregard for player voice and safety in a lot of cases,

603
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: and health, which is just go on strike, guys, go

604
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: on strike, do it together and figure out what's important

605
00:28:58,080 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: to you. One thing that I am a little disappointed

606
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: is whenever the players complain, they tend to complain about

607
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: prize money. To me, fine, if you're going to go

608
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: after the tournaments that make a ton of money and

609
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: get especially the slams, and get a proportion of that

610
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: prize money. But more it's the working condition, it's the

611
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: power to set your own schedule. To me, that seems

612
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: like way more of an issue, right. The idea that

613
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: to your point when we were talking about the women, like,

614
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: these tournaments are mandatory, These tournaments come with fines if

615
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: you don't show up.

616
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 3: These tournaments.

617
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: You know, need to play into each other in a

618
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: way that creates a season. And so when you're creating

619
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: these schedules and you're denying players the opportunity to maybe

620
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: go do an exhibition to earn money, or you're denying

621
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: them the ability to go home and rest ahead of

622
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: something that's important. Unless you're nobadack and you can just

623
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: kind of skip chunks of the tournaments, then you're jeopardizing

624
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: ultimately your product and your workforce and for what you know,

625
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: for to have one better name in a tournament, we

626
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: can week out. I would just sort of argue, like

627
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: the players, I think also need to hear like it's

628
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: not always just about prize money. It's about changing the

629
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: structure of the tour, and I would love to see

630
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: them tackle more structural things as opposed to like we

631
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: need more money and it's like, well sure.

632
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 2: But exactly well no, I think no.

633
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: More about like having a voice and deciding where the

634
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: organization goes.

635
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 2: Well, that was sort of one of the things I

636
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 2: wanted to mention about the WTA in Cancun and also

637
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 2: with this situation in Paris, is that there needs to

638
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 2: be stronger leadership for the players. And you know, I

639
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 2: know that there's players on the player board at the WTA,

640
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 2: right I'm sure the same with the ATP. But the

641
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 2: people that are representing the players, and some of them

642
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 2: are ex players that are gone into business, and what

643
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 2: are you guys doing? I can't. Yeah, and honestly, listen,

644
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 2: don't take offense to this. Players that may listen to

645
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 2: our podcasts from time to time, but we're not the smartest,

646
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 2: we're not business savvy. But yes, you know you ate,

647
00:30:58,040 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 2: you know, I know you played college tennis Skitland, but

648
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 2: you're journalists like you have your you know, your brain's

649
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 2: ticking a little bit different to some players that are

650
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 2: playing on the tennis tour. And I put myself in

651
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 2: that category. I'm no dummy. But listen, you know, when

652
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 2: it comes to business, when it comes to you know,

653
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: TV rights, I mean the fact that Steve didn't, you know,

654
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 2: go into bed with the ATP tour on that TV

655
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 2: tennis TV deal. What now you're doing? Like, what are

656
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 2: you doing now? You in bed with the w t

657
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 2: A the Tennis channel?

658
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: Now?

659
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 2: Who are like putting people ball over your matches? What?

660
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 2: And the ATP are doing great with their TV rights,

661
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 2: They're they're killing it. We can be a part of that.

662
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 2: He decided, no, no, it's not long enough, it's not

663
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: whatever the reason was, he decided to go against it.

664
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 2: So on that decision alone, he should lose his jomb

665
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 2: okay because the A top are killing it with that

666
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 2: Tennis TV deal. So it's like, so when you've got that,

667
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 2: I don't understand why we don't have better player representation

668
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 2: because we should have players represented by people that really

669
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 2: a business savvy and will also understand the sport and

670
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 2: their players and not players. Players shouldn't be the ones

671
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 2: going into the bird board meeting go this is what

672
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,719
Speaker 2: we want. So because I really know the nuances of

673
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 2: like structure and business and all that sort of stuff.

674
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 2: So unless you had a player that's an ex player

675
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 2: that's coming back and really fighting tooth and nail, because

676
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 2: I know some of the people that represent the players,

677
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 2: they're not doing that. So that's where we need to

678
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 2: step up as an association. We need to have better

679
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 2: play at representation. The PTPA, they're quite aggressive in their wording,

680
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 2: They're quite aggressive and some of the things are doing

681
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 2: and I know some players that are not so super

682
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 2: cool about the keen about getting support like supporting that

683
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 2: because of some of the people that are speaking out

684
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 2: on their behalf. I know that from sort of undertones.

685
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 2: But at the same time, there needs to be better

686
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 2: play at representation when it comes down to it, speaking

687
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,959
Speaker 2: a player representation Caitlin and we'll get off the ATP

688
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 2: Tour Finals. We'll wrap that up once it starts playing.

689
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 2: But and I do want to say, and I did

690
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:58,959
Speaker 2: post this on my Instagram, that you and I did

691
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 2: pick essentially the finalists of the WTAF finals. You picked

692
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 2: the Goola to win the tournament. I thought she was

693
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 2: going to have a great tournament. And I did say

694
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 2: she was going to flip around what she did not

695
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 2: do the year before, which was win a match. And

696
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 2: I knew she would flip around and play much better

697
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 2: this season. But I just gave the edge to EGA.

698
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 2: But we both predicted the final. But I have to say,

699
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 2: when it comes to surprises over the last week, what

700
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 2: about Patrick Moore Tugler coming out and basically finally saying, oh,

701
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 2: it was my fault in my teams. Wait, Halla, what

702
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 2: are your thoughts on that?

703
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it was overdue to sort of

704
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: say like, hey, listen, at the end of the day,

705
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: if you're kind of like we were talking about Steve Simon,

706
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: if it's your event, you take the lumps. If it's

707
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: your player and the team giving her supplements was your

708
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: player and under your carrer, you have to take the lumps.

709
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: I think that that's part of it. Like if you're

710
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: a coach who's working with a player and they have

711
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: a terrible season, part of it is just, hey, it

712
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: didn't work out.

713
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 3: I take responsibility.

714
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 2: This was my goal.

715
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: So kudos to Patrick for speaking on it. Obviously, that

716
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: whole situation super super messy. But I yeah, I mean,

717
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,959
Speaker 1: I'm sort of surprised it took this long, and I

718
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: wonder what prompted the.

719
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 3: Outreach.

720
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 1: Do you have any insight in terms of what whether

721
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: something changed from his perspective.

722
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 2: I have no insight into why he decided to come

723
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 2: out now, but I agree with you it is too little,

724
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 2: too late. And unless he's saying it now with the

725
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 2: cass you know, the cass arbitrational. What if you call

726
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 2: it coming out where they have to go in front

727
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 2: of them and hopefully they get a little bit more

728
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 2: of a lenient sentence, And he's trying to put it

729
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 2: out now for that particular court battle. Maybe he thinks

730
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 2: it might sway Cass into saying yep, blah blah blah,

731
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 2: And a lot of people are like, yeah, but her

732
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 2: passport was a little unusual. I don't know. I just

733
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 2: feel like when a player's played ten years on tour

734
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 2: and it's been tested at nauseum like all of us are.

735
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 2: And you know, you clean, clean, clean, clean clean. All

736
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 2: that time you played, I mean she would have been

737
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 2: tested a million times and all the tournaments that she played,

738
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 2: and off season and out of competition, which we all

739
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 2: have to do, and you have you wearabouts forms and

740
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 2: you have to tell them where you are every single

741
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 2: day and they can come and test you at any time.

742
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden you change teams and

743
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 2: within six months, and she was dealing with a lot

744
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 2: of injuries, remember the calf muscle issues she was having,

745
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 2: and various different things, and they probably were trying to

746
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 2: figure out a way to help that recover with that

747
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 2: calf muscle injury. And I don't know, I'm completely speculating,

748
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 2: which I probably shouldn't do, but I have to think

749
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 2: that maybe they were trying to get that injury going

750
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 2: and fixed and get her back on track. And maybe

751
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 2: they felt that you talked about collagen and YadA YadA

752
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 2: and brought that into her, you know, trying to get

753
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 2: that into her system, and it fucked her over. And

754
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 2: I don't know, I mean, you and I have different

755
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 2: kind of feelings towards this, but I just I don't know.

756
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 2: I just don't see her as somebody after all this

757
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 2: time that goes, yeah, I need an edge now.

758
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: I just I mean, I my opinion, and it's just

759
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: that it's not an educated opinion. But my opinion is

760
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: that I am glad Patrick addressed this. I definitely, you know,

761
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 1: think that the team and the responsibility therein was obviously

762
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: like you know, his team was involved in this, But

763
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: I also.

764
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 2: Think like.

765
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,879
Speaker 1: Her repeated tests, like it doesn't look good for her

766
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: and I and I know that you're speaking from a

767
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: perspective of knowing Darren.

768
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 2: And repeated test it was one test.

769
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: There was more than there was more than a few.

770
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: It wasn't just one test. And for that reason, the

771
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,439
Speaker 1: levels and the well.

772
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 2: It was the passport test that that they came back

773
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 2: on that they really went hard on her, and it

774
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 2: was she was she.

775
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: Was charged with two separate breaches and again there was

776
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: one that they really went hard on.

777
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 3: But again I just I.

778
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 2: Don't but it was one I believe I was believed

779
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 2: we probably shouldn't know this information before we put it

780
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 2: all out there, but I believe it was the one

781
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 2: test was positive at the US Open and that's the

782
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 2: two batches that they did of the same yearine test.

783
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 2: And then they found an anomaly in her passport because

784
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 2: they went back or whatever and they decided that there

785
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 2: was some anomalies with her blood passport. So that's where

786
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 2: you're getting the two from. Am I correct and.

787
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: Saying there were two separate cases. Yes, but she had

788
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 1: not previously failed the drug test.

789
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 3: It just there was enough regularity.

790
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, But but there was enough of regularity that there

791
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 1: were a couple of different irregularities, is my point. Like

792
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: it was irregular, the passport was irregular, and the I

793
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't want to.

794
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 2: I think we feel like I think we feel like, look,

795
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 2: there's always going to be ambiguous.

796
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: And I don't feel like there's not going to be ambiguity.

797
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: It feels something was something wrong happened here for sure,

798
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: and it doesn't feel like it was a mistake.

799
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 3: That's my opinion.

800
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 2: I understand what you're saying. What I'm saying is I

801
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 2: don't think that she was like, yes, I'm going to

802
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 2: do this, this is going to help me. I know

803
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 2: it's against the rules. I think that she took it

804
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 2: thinking that they were like, yeah, this is good for you.

805
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 2: You're all good. Because also I do really trust Darren

806
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 2: Ca Hill's opinion on this. And when he was coaching

807
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 2: her for a number of years, he was adamant that

808
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 2: she was adamant about everything she put into her system

809
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 2: was okay. He was like, she would not ask once,

810
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 2: she would ask five times, are you sure this is okay?

811
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 2: Are you sure this is okay? And Darren, of course,

812
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 2: you know, loves Simona and is like a second daughter

813
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 2: to him and he respects the hell out of her.

814
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 2: But for him to go on the record and say

815
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 2: this is just something that is so against what I

816
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,919
Speaker 2: knew as her as a tennis player. Whenever we would

817
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 2: give her anything, or someone would give her a new

818
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 2: drink or sports drink or something to eat or take,

819
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 2: she was adamant that it was okay. Now, he didn't

820
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 2: need to come out and say that. He could have

821
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 2: just like laid low and said, you fucked up, you

822
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 2: left me, and you went to Patrick markt Auglu and

823
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 2: you paint the price. He could have been petty, but

824
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 2: he didn't. He came out and said this is how

825
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 2: I know Simona, and so for me that that stands

826
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 2: a lot. That makes a big difference for me hearing

827
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 2: that from Darren. And I'm not saying it's he knows

828
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 2: everything for a fact, but that's his perspective.

829
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: Well, I think that's valuable. And I think again, like

830
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: I yeah, it's sad. I mean, obviously one of the

831
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: best players in the world who's got a slam is

832
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: not on tour because of this, and I think that's

833
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 1: always a bummer. Okay, we should probably wrap it up

834
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: because it's been a minute, but we should also get

835
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: back in the studio to talk more as the season progresses.

836
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: But I'm glad we have look more than anything else.

837
00:39:58,719 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 3: I'm not glad we.

838
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 1: Called it regards to the leadership of the tennis but

839
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 1: it's at this point it's the joke's on you guys,

840
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: like we're just talking on a podcast, Like you guys

841
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 1: are the ones who have to clean yourselves up from

842
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: this mess.

843
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 2: So get it done, get it done, get it done.

844
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 2: And you know what, I don't even want to talk

845
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 2: about the WTA digital side of it, with their website

846
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 2: and they're all this. I mean, I could have gone

847
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 2: on forever, but we don't need to because we've done

848
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 2: it all year. And as you said, we don't like

849
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 2: to be right, but we were right on this one again.

850
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 2: And someone, No, I don't want to be right. I'm

851
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 2: so over being right with the WTA. I want to

852
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:33,280
Speaker 2: be so wrong.

853
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:33,879
Speaker 3: Yeah.

854
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 2: I want to only be right when I say how

855
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 2: great this product is and how great our leadership is

856
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 2: and how great everything is, and then I'll be really

857
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 2: happy and I'll stop bitching. Okay. So no hashtag dick

858
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 2: kicks anymore. Okay, but as far as I'm concerned, leadership

859
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 2: at the top needs to change, Okay, And so that's

860
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 2: my point, all right, Caitlyn. It's been great, It's been real.

861
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 2: It's been a while. I'm sure that our listeners are

862
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 2: really loving that we came with the hammer today.

863
00:40:59,080 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 3: We always do.

864
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: All right, until next time, Renee, and thank you everybody

865
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,720
Speaker 1: for being patient with us. We'll be back soon. Keep listening,

866
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: keep giving us your feedback, and uh yeah, well here

867
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: we are.

868
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 3: We're just telling it like it is, per the usual.

869
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,479
Speaker 2: Viv in Mexico, Okay, like I don't know if anyone

870
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 2: so she on takes a little celebration last night on

871
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 2: her Instagram where she sucked in the helium and went back,

872
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 2: did you see that.

873
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go look at it now.

874
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 2: I don't see Ego being a big drinker, so I

875
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 2: guess helium was her way to celebrate. But anyway, amazing.

876
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 2: It was pretty funny. But anyway, all the Mexican fans,

877
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 2: we love you. Thanks for going and being awesome fans,

878
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 2: and hopefully the WTA gets together for the WTA Finals

879
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 2: next year. Until later when we report on the ATP Finals,

880
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 2: it's been real. Thanks Caitlin. Bye everyone,