WEBVTT - Auto Icon Carlos Ghosn Could Be Facing A Catastrophic Ending

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Bloomberg p m L Podcast. I'm Pim Fox.

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<v Speaker 1>Along with my co host Lisa Brabowitz. Each day we

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<v Speaker 1>bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for

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<v Speaker 1>you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store

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<v Speaker 1>or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg p m L

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<v Speaker 1>Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot Com. One

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<v Speaker 1>of the biggest stories of the day is that Nissan

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<v Speaker 1>is removing Carlos Gone as chairman after he was arrested

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<v Speaker 1>in Tokyo for violations of financial impropriety uh and this,

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<v Speaker 1>of course has sent the a d r s down

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<v Speaker 1>by more than five percent. Of Nissan Johnny us down

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<v Speaker 1>to talk a little bit more about this is David Welch,

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<v Speaker 1>Detroit bureau trief for Bloomberg News as well as her

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<v Speaker 1>own Matthew Miller of Bloomberg Television and Bloomberg Radio, who

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<v Speaker 1>is in New York in our eleven three oh studios.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to get to Matt, but David, let's start

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<v Speaker 1>with you. Can you lay out what the most important

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<v Speaker 1>details are that have come out so far about the

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<v Speaker 1>financial improprieties and what it means for Nissan going forward? Sure,

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<v Speaker 1>so what they've accused him of, actually, there hasn't been

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<v Speaker 1>an official accusation by Japanese authorities, but what they're saying

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<v Speaker 1>is basically, he understated how much income he was making

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<v Speaker 1>by about forty four million dollars. And then in a

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<v Speaker 1>very old, say damning but also a vague press conference,

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<v Speaker 1>uh Nissan uh CEO psychois said that he has also

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<v Speaker 1>misappropriated company resources. And from there you have to think

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<v Speaker 1>he was, you know, could this be overusing the company plane?

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<v Speaker 1>Is it uh abusing expense accounts and drafting cash resources

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<v Speaker 1>out of the company. I mean it sort of couldn't

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<v Speaker 1>encompass all of those things, and they were moving him immediately.

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<v Speaker 1>Mitsubishi Motors, which is also part of the three way

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<v Speaker 1>alliance with these three car companies, have done the same thing.

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<v Speaker 1>And when I was last looking at that, there were

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<v Speaker 1>no board was reviewing the whole situation and figuring out

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<v Speaker 1>what they're going to do. This is huge because going

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<v Speaker 1>is the guy who saved Nissan back in the late

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<v Speaker 1>nineties when Renault bought a big chunk of the company

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<v Speaker 1>for six billion dollars, Nissan was really kind of teetering

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<v Speaker 1>on bankruptcy and with six billion from Renault and Carlos Goings,

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<v Speaker 1>cost cutting and product plan and factory turnaround. They came

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<v Speaker 1>roaring back and he has run these three companies as

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<v Speaker 1>an icon for almost two decades and for it to

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<v Speaker 1>end this way is uh catastrophic for him and it's

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<v Speaker 1>going to bring about massive change for the for all

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<v Speaker 1>three companies involved. Matt Miller, I want to bring you

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<v Speaker 1>into the conversation. You've met Carlos Going on a number

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<v Speaker 1>of times. Tell us a little bit about him, his

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<v Speaker 1>background and what you take away from your personal meetings

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<v Speaker 1>with him. Well, I mean, David points out that he

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<v Speaker 1>is an iconic figure. He is known as the rock

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<v Speaker 1>star of auto CEO and that title sometimes is used

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<v Speaker 1>for other people. It has been for Alan Moullally in

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<v Speaker 1>the past. It should have been for Sergio um Marcion

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<v Speaker 1>as well, but Going is the longest standing, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>rock in the auto industry. As far as those three

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<v Speaker 1>kind of biggest turnaround CEOs go um cut his teeth

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<v Speaker 1>in Australia, I believe, yeah, absolutely, and he's he's one

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<v Speaker 1>of these just like Sergio was the sort of multinational

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<v Speaker 1>citizens as well. I mean, I think the biggest problem

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<v Speaker 1>right now. UM of the three is Renault. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>their shares fell the furthest in France, and he's still

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<v Speaker 1>the CEO over No. Remember, he was kind of stepping

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<v Speaker 1>back from the alliance. He gave up his title as

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<v Speaker 1>CEO of Nissan UH. He was chairman of the alliance,

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<v Speaker 1>but was making UH making arrangements to make it permanent.

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<v Speaker 1>So a lot of investors UM were expecting. I think

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<v Speaker 1>it's fair to say that all investors were expecting this

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<v Speaker 1>was headed towards a merger, if not an official UM

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<v Speaker 1>tie up, at least something more official than it is now.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's what's up in the air. I think that's

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<v Speaker 1>the biggest concern for shareholders right now. Although it's important

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<v Speaker 1>to mention, as David's said, Japanese prosecutors haven't UM filed

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<v Speaker 1>official charges yet and he's not considered guilty. Although he

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<v Speaker 1>has been arrested, he has gone with the prosecutors. It's

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<v Speaker 1>not clear where he is right now, but he is,

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<v Speaker 1>let's say, being detained. Yeah, he also was removed his chairman,

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<v Speaker 1>so there's not changing that. Thank you so much both

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<v Speaker 1>of you for joining us. Matthew Miller, wonderful to see

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<v Speaker 1>you in person Happy Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving Bloomberg television and radio

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<v Speaker 1>host as well. Also thanks to David Welt, Detroit bureau chief,

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much. Afford joining us well, you know, Lisa.

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<v Speaker 1>Just earlier we got to listen to Ray Daio of

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<v Speaker 1>Bridgewater give his thoughts about the business cycle, about the

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<v Speaker 1>money management business. He was speaking with Barry Dholts of

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Opinion, but on the cover of Bloomberg Markets magazine,

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<v Speaker 1>I dare say is an interview that is of equal weight,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is an interview with Abby Johnson of Fidelity,

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<v Speaker 1>and it also includes Kathleen Murphy, who leads their personal

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<v Speaker 1>investing unit. One of the quotes out of the story

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<v Speaker 1>is that we're in the midst of quote a twenty

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<v Speaker 1>two trillion dollars shift in assets to women. And I

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<v Speaker 1>thought that was fascinating. And here to tell us more

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<v Speaker 1>about it and how the company is reacting and dealing

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<v Speaker 1>with this change is Peggy Collins, our expert when it

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<v Speaker 1>comes to all things investing, our investing team leader for

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg News, and you can follow Peggy at m k

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<v Speaker 1>M Collins on Twitter and she joins us here in

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<v Speaker 1>the Bloomberg Interactive broker's studio. Peggy, a pleasure to have

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<v Speaker 1>you tell us about this interview and particularly about this

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<v Speaker 1>shift in assets to women. And it coincides also with

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<v Speaker 1>Fidelity's effort to make sure that a lot of their

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<v Speaker 1>new hires, particularly at their branch level, are women's right.

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<v Speaker 1>So essentially, Abby Johnson is the top woman in fund

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<v Speaker 1>man management in the US. She runs Fidelity. She's the

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<v Speaker 1>third generation of the Johnson family to run it, and

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<v Speaker 1>she looked ahead with Kathleen Murphy, who runs personal investing

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<v Speaker 1>at Fidelity, a giant business unit for them. And basically

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<v Speaker 1>what they're seeing is this transfer of money into women's

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<v Speaker 1>hands for one of the first times in our history

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<v Speaker 1>for several reasons, one of them being the fact that

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<v Speaker 1>women are just living longer than men. So a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of women are finding themselves in a position in their

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<v Speaker 1>life where maybe they didn't run the money earlier in

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<v Speaker 1>their lives, but they are getting transferred assets later in

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<v Speaker 1>their life. You're also seeing more women um stay married,

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<v Speaker 1>not get married. You're also seeing more women get divorced

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<v Speaker 1>and have to deal with assets at some point in

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<v Speaker 1>their life as well. So they're just really seeing the

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<v Speaker 1>whole demographics of who's investing in controlling the pocketbook change.

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<v Speaker 1>So I have to think that this is a person

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<v Speaker 1>who has been at the forefront of the move to

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<v Speaker 1>index funds and two cheaper funds, And when you talk

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<v Speaker 1>about expertise, I just wonder how did she sort of

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<v Speaker 1>reconcile the tention right now between active and passive management,

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<v Speaker 1>especially given their zero fee UH funds that they just

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<v Speaker 1>recently launched. It's such a great point, Lisa, because Fidelity

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<v Speaker 1>under her grandfather and father's leadership, was essentially known for

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<v Speaker 1>its stock pickers active management. You had people like Peter Lynch,

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<v Speaker 1>one of the most famous investors of all time, who

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<v Speaker 1>really draw drew a lot of investors to Fidelity. But

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<v Speaker 1>what Abby's overseeing the company at a time where millions

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<v Speaker 1>and billions of dollars are going into passive, low fee

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<v Speaker 1>index one So she really talked about how they've been

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<v Speaker 1>somewhat late to the index investing game. She admitted that,

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<v Speaker 1>but she also says she feels like the company is

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<v Speaker 1>caught up. One of the things that they did is

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<v Speaker 1>you said, this summer was decided, you know what, We're

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<v Speaker 1>going to be the first to offer a free index

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<v Speaker 1>fund to Actually they came out with in August. They

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<v Speaker 1>now have four, and Abby Johnson was saying, you know what,

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<v Speaker 1>she's not really a fan so much anymore of traditional advertising,

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<v Speaker 1>and she thinks in order to get more people to

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<v Speaker 1>give Fidelity a chance, they have to do things that

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<v Speaker 1>are even more surprising and splashy. And essentially they did

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<v Speaker 1>surprise a lot of their competitors when they came out

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<v Speaker 1>when they were the ones, given that they're known for

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<v Speaker 1>active management to come out with the first free index fund.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the other areas that she spoke about, also

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<v Speaker 1>Kathleen Murphy speaking about is robot advisors. That's right. Fidelity

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<v Speaker 1>has a robo advisor called Fidelity Go, and we've seen

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of the asset managers incorporate robots into their

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<v Speaker 1>investing process, particularly for people who are of middle wealth.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, the billionaires are still getting the high time,

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<v Speaker 1>their wealth is not excessive, and they can't make great

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<v Speaker 1>fees out of those clients, so this might be the

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<v Speaker 1>way to get them to that very money. Managed it

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<v Speaker 1>Fidelity right and get it managed earlier. So back in

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<v Speaker 1>the day, you would wait until you had maybe tens

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<v Speaker 1>of thousands of dollars to go to some wealth advisor,

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<v Speaker 1>but Fidelities now saying, look, we can offer you a

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<v Speaker 1>six multiple choice questionnaire that you can fill out all online,

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<v Speaker 1>and then we can help you get in invested. One

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<v Speaker 1>of the interesting things they also said was their designing

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<v Speaker 1>products and user user interfaces now for millennials, and then

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<v Speaker 1>they calibrated up to two older people. So that's who

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<v Speaker 1>they have in mind nowadays when they're thinking about how

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<v Speaker 1>do we put this product out there. It's really interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, you're talking about how traditional advertising ones to

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<v Speaker 1>certainly be the way to attract investors, it also may

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<v Speaker 1>not be the way to make money. And I just

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<v Speaker 1>have to wonder. I mean again, when you start talking about, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a good gimmick to get people to to like Fidelity. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>but they're making nothing on these fun so how do

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<v Speaker 1>they plan to make money? Well, they essentially are saying,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what we need to get get people in

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<v Speaker 1>the door, and once we get them in the door,

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<v Speaker 1>we can offer them a lot of different things. Fidelity

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<v Speaker 1>was talking about it's brokerage platform, for example, in terms

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<v Speaker 1>of more trading. As you get older and potentially have

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<v Speaker 1>more money, maybe you're not only using the robo advisor

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<v Speaker 1>maybe you're not only using Fidelity through your four own

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<v Speaker 1>K plant, but maybe you're going to open up a

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<v Speaker 1>broker account. Maybe you're going to offer as you get older,

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<v Speaker 1>a managed that you're going to be offered a managed

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<v Speaker 1>to count offering where for people with more money, they

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<v Speaker 1>may have more high touch a wealth advisor involved. So

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<v Speaker 1>they essentially see it as a way to get people

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<v Speaker 1>in the door and then offer them different things. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>it also is a way to beef up the asset

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<v Speaker 1>management business, which is the most profitable division of Fidelity.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right. I did ask Abby about whether or not

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<v Speaker 1>she thought the asset management industry, the mass asset management

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<v Speaker 1>part of the business would still be the most profitable

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<v Speaker 1>five years from now, and she said, you know what,

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of it is dependent on the markets, but

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<v Speaker 1>it still is their most profitable business line. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>they have workplace benefits like I mentioned four in case,

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<v Speaker 1>they have the brokerage unit. They have a number of

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<v Speaker 1>different business lines of Fidelity, but stock picking, mutual funds,

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<v Speaker 1>those are still the big engine for them. Peggy Abby

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<v Speaker 1>Johnson is not known for being a publicity hound in

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<v Speaker 1>any way. She performed This is a rare interview. Do

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<v Speaker 1>you get the sense just lastly here that she's changing

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<v Speaker 1>her approach. Here, it was interesting she acknowledged that she

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<v Speaker 1>has been speaking out more. The company had issues with

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<v Speaker 1>a sexual harassment claim last year, and she was out

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<v Speaker 1>in front very quickly after that talking about zero tolerance

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<v Speaker 1>in the workplace. She did acknowledge that it doesn't seem

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<v Speaker 1>like it's her the thing she wants to do. First,

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<v Speaker 1>she's not a total fan of being out there in

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<v Speaker 1>public speaking, in part because it takes up a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of time and travel. But she did acknowledge that investors

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<v Speaker 1>want to see their leaders out there and talking more.

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<v Speaker 1>She did also acknowledge that she's not one to make

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<v Speaker 1>calls on the market. You know, we see a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of leaders of investing firms who actually do that a lot,

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<v Speaker 1>and she said, I'm a leader of this company that

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<v Speaker 1>has to do well whether the markets are doing well

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<v Speaker 1>or not, and so she feels like making calls in

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<v Speaker 1>the market is not something that she wants to do.

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<v Speaker 1>Petty Collins, thank you so much and great story. Thank

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<v Speaker 1>you for being with us. A topic now are global

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<v Speaker 1>rates and a foreign exchange strategy, and here to help

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<v Speaker 1>us understand what's going on in the World is and

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<v Speaker 1>Matthias Global Rates FX strategist for Vanguard and Matthias, can

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<v Speaker 1>you tell us whether you believe there is any fallout

0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:16.160
<v Speaker 1>from the Apack summit, or should we say the a

0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:19.160
<v Speaker 1>peck of pick of peppers summit where they could not

0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:25.480
<v Speaker 1>actually put together a common communicate between the United States

0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.520
<v Speaker 1>and a variety of Asian countries. What does this mean

0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:33.560
<v Speaker 1>for global currencies? Well, I I to keep going with

0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:36.360
<v Speaker 1>your analogy. I think they picked a peck of pickled peppers,

0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:38.839
<v Speaker 1>but they didn't know how many pickled peppers they picked.

0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:46.200
<v Speaker 1>I love it. You get ten points. Good good. Um.

0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:49.679
<v Speaker 1>You know as an interest rate strategist here at Vanguard,

0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:54.679
<v Speaker 1>that is, trade is the top um topic for our

0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:57.920
<v Speaker 1>teams and for um, you know, all of the people

0:12:57.920 --> 0:12:59.920
<v Speaker 1>that we talked to in the markets right now. The

0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.360
<v Speaker 1>US Treasury gets pushed around by a lot of different

0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:05.800
<v Speaker 1>factors at different times, but I would say just for

0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:09.240
<v Speaker 1>the last few weeks for both equities and fix income,

0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:14.240
<v Speaker 1>the number one mover has been talk on trade. And

0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:16.360
<v Speaker 1>it's just too early to say. You know, trade is

0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:21.080
<v Speaker 1>one of those um topics that takes forever. For those

0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:23.520
<v Speaker 1>of us whore old enough to remember NAFTA. That seems

0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:27.200
<v Speaker 1>like it took absolutely forever to move from a concept

0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.120
<v Speaker 1>to an actual trade agreement, So any new trade deals

0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:34.640
<v Speaker 1>just take forever. So it's hard not to react to headlines,

0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:37.920
<v Speaker 1>but people should try to keep the big picture in view. Well,

0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:40.520
<v Speaker 1>and I wanted to say our markets responding to the

0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:43.320
<v Speaker 1>headlines that we got, because they were pretty negative. I mean,

0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:45.840
<v Speaker 1>Mike Pats came out with a pretty harsh tone and

0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:48.000
<v Speaker 1>Margaret's are Yeah, they're risk off a little bit, but

0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:51.800
<v Speaker 1>you're not really seeing a major move today. You're right,

0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:54.679
<v Speaker 1>You are absolutely right. It's quite interesting. It seems like

0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:57.320
<v Speaker 1>just just today UM, and maybe even just in the

0:13:57.400 --> 0:13:59.800
<v Speaker 1>last couple of maybe week or so, you see more

0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.599
<v Speaker 1>potty market reaction to the trade talk UM, and a

0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.680
<v Speaker 1>little bit less fixed income market, a little less treasury

0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:10.320
<v Speaker 1>reaction UM treasuries maybe taking a little bit more in stride.

0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.120
<v Speaker 1>Maybe maybe those of us in that part of the

0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:15.200
<v Speaker 1>market have a little bit longer term perspective. Uh, it's

0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:19.560
<v Speaker 1>definitely rocking the equity markets and and interestingly rocking UM

0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:24.360
<v Speaker 1>the growth components of those markets. Then does that mean

0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:27.880
<v Speaker 1>that there's an opportunity here or should you stay away

0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:32.280
<v Speaker 1>until the dust clears. You know, it's we're in that

0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:36.280
<v Speaker 1>point of the economic cycle where we're close to uh,

0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:38.840
<v Speaker 1>sort of close to the end or you know, are

0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:40.240
<v Speaker 1>we at the beginning of the end or at the

0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:42.960
<v Speaker 1>end of the beginning? Um. But I think that we

0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:45.360
<v Speaker 1>are getting to sort of a late stage in the

0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:47.840
<v Speaker 1>economic cycle. You know, we can almost see over the

0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:50.520
<v Speaker 1>hump with the Fed to see when they will probably

0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:54.600
<v Speaker 1>finish hiking rates, which are economics team here at Vanguard

0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.640
<v Speaker 1>thinks is probably middle of next year, the second half

0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:02.320
<v Speaker 1>of next year. So you're seeing a bit more diffusion

0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:04.600
<v Speaker 1>in terms of what people think is going to happen.

0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:09.040
<v Speaker 1>I think that there are some growth undercurrents that are

0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:11.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, starting to be a little bit more concerning.

0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.400
<v Speaker 1>And if you have growthy parts of the market uh

0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:18.680
<v Speaker 1>not doing well with trade concerns, it may not be

0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.160
<v Speaker 1>the perfect time to buy the dip. It's you know,

0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:23.480
<v Speaker 1>probably better to be a little bit more circumspect. And

0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:24.920
<v Speaker 1>I want to pick up on what you were saying,

0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:27.120
<v Speaker 1>which is you expect the FED to stop raising rates

0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:29.960
<v Speaker 1>somewhere around the middle of next year. Recently, we've seen

0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:32.720
<v Speaker 1>a lot of traders sort of ratcheting back their expectations

0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.160
<v Speaker 1>for just how much the FED will hike rates. Do

0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:38.080
<v Speaker 1>you think that they are sort of late to the

0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:40.480
<v Speaker 1>game that's sort of been the play all along, or

0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:42.920
<v Speaker 1>do you think that something materially has changed that will

0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.560
<v Speaker 1>now slow the FED down more than than than the

0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:48.840
<v Speaker 1>previous as you thought. I think they're a little bit

0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.640
<v Speaker 1>late to the game. Um. And I think there probably

0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:53.960
<v Speaker 1>has been a little bit of an overreaction too far

0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.880
<v Speaker 1>the other direction, you know, underpricing the amount that the

0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:00.840
<v Speaker 1>FED will raise rates over the next year. You know,

0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.320
<v Speaker 1>we see near certainty of a hike in December and

0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:09.120
<v Speaker 1>then two and probably perhaps three hikes next year. Um.

0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:13.040
<v Speaker 1>And not enough has changed in the fundamental economic picture

0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:15.840
<v Speaker 1>to throw us off that track. I think the market

0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.560
<v Speaker 1>has moved swung a little bit too far toward a

0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:22.080
<v Speaker 1>dovish tilt. Uh. And we could see probably a bit

0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:24.680
<v Speaker 1>of a reflattening of the yield curve as the shorter

0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:31.400
<v Speaker 1>dated treasury um sector starts to kind of get a

0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.200
<v Speaker 1>little bit more realistic about what what's likely to happen

0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:38.120
<v Speaker 1>next year. We haven't seen enough deterioration in economic data

0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:40.320
<v Speaker 1>to really I think throw the FED that far off

0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:44.400
<v Speaker 1>well and Matthias, let's be let's sort of conclude a

0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:46.400
<v Speaker 1>little bit where we began having to do with that

0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:50.440
<v Speaker 1>APEC meeting and the disagreement over trade between the United

0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.160
<v Speaker 1>States and China. Do you believe the Chinese government will

0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.840
<v Speaker 1>work to reflate their economy and do you believe that

0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:59.680
<v Speaker 1>they will also try to lower the value of their currency?

0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.240
<v Speaker 1>You know, I think the currency piece is something that

0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:05.199
<v Speaker 1>just tends to happen when you have a lot of

0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:09.320
<v Speaker 1>terrorf activity, because the exported items just have to be

0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:13.280
<v Speaker 1>repriced to remain competitive. But I do think that there

0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:15.760
<v Speaker 1>was a bit of probably a bit of positioning going

0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.520
<v Speaker 1>on right now because you have the upcoming meeting between

0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:22.239
<v Speaker 1>the President uh and and She of China coming up,

0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:23.879
<v Speaker 1>and I think it's you know, it's too early to

0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:27.159
<v Speaker 1>say that that was, you know, a truly meaningful change

0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:29.719
<v Speaker 1>in the trade dialogue. We're positioning for the for the

0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:33.439
<v Speaker 1>real negotiation between the two principles. A Mathias, thank you

0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:35.240
<v Speaker 1>so much for being with us. A Mathias is a

0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:40.560
<v Speaker 1>global rates and f X strategist for Vanguard. Thanks for

0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:43.280
<v Speaker 1>listening to the Bloomberg p m L podcast. You can

0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:47.119
<v Speaker 1>subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or

0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.639
<v Speaker 1>whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm pim Fox. I'm on

0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:54.560
<v Speaker 1>Twitter at pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at Lisa Abramo.

0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:57.280
<v Speaker 1>It's One before the Podcast. You can always catch us

0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:05.919
<v Speaker 1>worldwide on Bloomberg Radio