1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World, the United States Congress 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: passed legislation called the Georgie Brown Junior Near Earth Object 3 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: Survey Act of two thousand and five, which mandated the 4 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 1: NASA find and track ninety percent of the near Earth 5 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: objects called NEOs of course larger than one hundred and 6 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: forty meters by twenty twenty. As a result of that legislation, 7 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: we're now starting to look at the skies more closely 8 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,160 Speaker 1: and with better technology, and as my guest today has said, 9 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: we're now pursuing one of the most exciting questions in science. 10 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: Are we alone here to discuss the recent discovery of 11 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: three I atlas? I'm really pleased to welcome my guest, 12 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: Professor Ave Lobe. He is the Frank B. Bear Junior 13 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: Professor of Science at Harvard University, is director of the 14 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: Institute for Theory and Computation within the Harvard Smithsonian Center 15 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: for Astrophysics, and also heads the Galileo Project. As you 16 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: can imagine, we're going to have a lot to talk about. 17 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: His articles about THREEI Atlas can be found at Avidashlobe 18 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: dot medium dot com. Ave welcome and thank you for 19 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 1: joining me on this world. 20 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 2: It's my great privilege to speak with you, nuth. 21 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: There are a lot of things I want to ask 22 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: you about, but obviously we have to start with THREEI atlas. 23 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: Let's talk about what happened after Congress passed the legislation 24 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: asking that we track near Earth objects. What does that 25 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: actually led to as a practical film? 26 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 2: Right, So the story starts sixty six million years ago 27 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 2: and a giant asteroid the size of Manhattan Island hit 28 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 2: the Earth, and we learned the lesson. We think that 29 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 2: we are more intelligent than these animals were that were 30 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 2: looking down and dominating their environment, but then they were 31 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 2: completely diminished from the surface of Earth. And so Congress 32 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 2: wanted NASA to find ninety percent of all objects bigger 33 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 2: than a football field one hundred and forty meters, and 34 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 2: for that purpose, there were two survey telescopes constructed. The 35 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 2: first one is pan Stars in Hawaii that monitored the 36 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 2: near Earth objects as big as a football field or bigger, 37 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 2: and they found a significant fraction of those that might 38 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 2: come close to Earth, but they didn't fulfill the congressional task. 39 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 2: And then most recently, the National Science Foundation the Department 40 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 2: of Energy funded the Rubin Observator in Chile that we'll 41 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 2: get closer to completing this task. But there was also 42 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 2: a small telescope called Atlas that was placed in Chile 43 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 2: monitoring the sky for near Earth asteroids. And we are 44 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 2: making progress. But what we are trying to find our 45 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 2: rocks from the solo sism from the construction project of 46 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 2: the planets. These are like lego pieces building blocks that 47 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 2: were left behind, and they are moving around in our vicinity, 48 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 2: and every now and then one of them hits the 49 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 2: Earth and becomes a meteor. It creates a fireball. Once 50 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 2: a year there is an atomic explosion in our atmosphere 51 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 2: with proportions similar to the Hiroshima atomic bomb energy output, 52 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: and it happens high up in the atmosphere about fifty 53 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 2: kilometers altitude, and so we don't really worry about it. 54 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 2: Not much damage is caused on the ground. But these 55 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 2: are objects of all the size of a person. But 56 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 2: we want to find bigger ones that could cause a 57 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 2: lot of damage if they impact the Earth, and that 58 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 2: was the goal. Now in the process of monitoring the sky, 59 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 2: should say, there was, for example, on January second, a 60 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: near Earth asteroid that was cataloged by the Minor Planet Center. 61 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 2: Then a day later they realized, oh, wait a minute, 62 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 2: this one moves along the path of the Tesla roads 63 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 2: to the car that was launched by SpaceX. So then they said, no, no, 64 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 2: we will remove that from the catalog. It's actually not 65 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 2: a rock, it's a car, and there is a big 66 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 2: lesson to be learned. The only reason they identified it 67 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 2: as technological and not natural and natural object is because 68 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 2: we knew that SpaceX launched this object in twenty eighteen. However, 69 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 2: just imagine someone more accomplished than ill Unmusk in the 70 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 2: Milky Way Galaxy over the past thirteen point eight billion years, 71 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 2: you know, the one hundred billion stars like the Sun, 72 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 2: and it's quite possible that near one of them, you know, 73 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 2: there was a civilization that was more accomplished than we are. 74 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 2: And so we should be aware of the possibility that 75 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: there might be a visitor to our backyard from outside 76 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 2: the Solar System. And that's the message I'm trying to 77 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 2: convey and just to summarize in one sentence. My way 78 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 2: of thinking about science is that it's an opportunity for 79 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 2: us to learn something new, and for that we need 80 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 2: the humility to learn the foundation of science. The humility 81 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 2: to learn. However, what you find in academia these days 82 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 2: is the arrogance of expertise. Comet experts will say that 83 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 2: anything in the sky is a comet or an asteroid. 84 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 2: They will refuse to include in their training data set 85 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 2: technological objects. 86 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 1: I was a trigern I first rate. You're talking about 87 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: this because all too often scientists think that they're sort 88 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: of like mandarins were in Confusion China. They are the 89 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 1: holders of covetive knowledge as opposed to the real scientists, 90 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: who are the explorers trying to understand what they don't 91 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: currently understand exactly. 92 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 2: And on top of that, there is the whole concept 93 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 2: of tenure in academia, which was meant to encourage people 94 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 2: to take risks. So I met with a group of 95 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 2: twenty students and they ask me, why isn't there more 96 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 2: risk taking projects in science? And I explained that, you know, 97 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 2: most scientists are worried about their ego. They would like 98 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 2: to get honors, awards, recognition, They show off, and they 99 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 2: take very little risks in order not to be wrong. 100 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 2: That's exactly the wrong approach, because then the chance of 101 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 2: a discovery is reduced If you follow the beaten path 102 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 2: and do not deviate from it. It might take much 103 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 2: longer before you find the truth. And I recommend it 104 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 2: to the students when they follow their career. They should 105 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 2: also remember that when they go to the beach, they 106 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 2: see all these seashells, and the ones that are relatively 107 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 2: new have their colors. However, those that rubbed against other 108 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 2: seashells lost their colors, and so if they want a 109 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 2: life worth living, they should actually maintain their colors and 110 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 2: not rub against each other. It's a message that is 111 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 2: not popular kademia, but I'm trying to do the best 112 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 2: I can, and I actually show it by example, and 113 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,799 Speaker 2: of course I get attacked, but at least I feel 114 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 2: that I'm following my passion this way. 115 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: I want to go back to something who said in 116 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: passing early on. When you look at the map of 117 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: the area around the Ucatan peninsula, you can see the 118 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: shape of the comet which hit, which was so enormous 119 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: that for at least three or four years. The secondary 120 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: effects the change in the atmosphere, the scale of the 121 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: wind which was caused by it, and the heat of 122 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: that wind. I mean the dinosaurs which have been absolutely 123 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: dominant for a variety of reasons. We're unable to survive 124 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: the transition, although one branch of dinosaurs, which we call birds, 125 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: did survive. Mammals who are often small and in burrows, 126 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: did survive, and so you see life begin again. But 127 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: the Smithsonian once said play on this, and they had 128 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: a display sign. They had a dinosaur sort of looking 129 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: up and a comment coming in and it said, one 130 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: very bad day. 131 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 2: The one thing to keep in mind, nobody would mourn 132 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 2: if humanity perishes on this planet. There must have been 133 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 2: a lot like us. And if you ask where is everybody, 134 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 2: like Enrico Fermias, I would argue most of them are dead. 135 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: You know, most civilizations that lived over the past billions 136 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 2: of years died. And the question is which civilization will 137 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:32,839 Speaker 2: be remembered in the long term. If we want to 138 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 2: leave an imprint, if we want to be somehow documented 139 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 2: in the history books of the Milky Way Galaxy over 140 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 2: the next few billionaires, the only way to do that 141 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 2: is to venture into space, and not to stay on 142 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 2: this planet for a variety of reasons. Because there might 143 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 2: be a meteor impact, like we just discussed, there might 144 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 2: be some self inflicted wounds. We see how geopolitics may 145 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 2: be unstable and there might be a global war. Eventually 146 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 2: the sun will brighten and make the Earth a desert, 147 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 2: just like Mars. One way or another, we need to 148 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 2: move away from a single point where a catastrophe can 149 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 2: wipe us out. That's the galactic version of Darwin's natural selection. 150 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 2: The fittest survives, and therefore we might learn a lesson 151 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 2: from other civilizations. If we find them arriving to our backyard, 152 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 2: we would know what is the right tactics for us 153 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 2: to use. But you know, my view is there will 154 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 2: not be a big shift. I mean, we are investing 155 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 2: two point four trillion dollars a year in military budgets worldwide. 156 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 2: The biggest shift I can imagine is if we uncover 157 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 2: some alien technology near Earth and then we realize there 158 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 2: is a new threat and therefore we should allocate let's 159 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 2: say a fraction of a trillion dollars a year to 160 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 2: space exploration, and in that case we will be the 161 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 2: infrastructure of a warning alert system away from Earth. And 162 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 2: if we put a trillion dollars a year to space exploration, 163 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 2: I think we can do a lot. In fact, my 164 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 2: view is that just going to the Moon or Mars 165 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 2: is very narrow minded. You know, Mars is a desert. 166 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 2: It's much worse than the rock that we currently inhabit. 167 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 2: It makes much more sense to build a habitat a 168 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 2: space platform that can accommodate humans for long journeys and 169 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 2: with a trillion dollars a year. If you put the 170 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 2: best architects, the best technologies, the best scientists on this task, 171 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 2: it's sort of a mega Manhattan project. But for space exploration, 172 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 2: we might actually be able by the end of this 173 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 2: century to build the infrastructure for humans to live comfortably 174 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 2: beyond the Earth. So my hope is, you know, if 175 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 2: we discover an object that is technological in origin, not 176 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 2: human made, then it will change everything, not only in 177 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 2: the sense of us going to space, but also changing 178 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 2: priorities on Earth. You know, it just doesn't make sense 179 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 2: for us to invest so much resources in trying to 180 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 2: either kill other people or protect ourselves from being killed 181 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 2: by other people. Like we are all in the same 182 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 2: bold and we better corperate. 183 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: That's a view I think that both Elon Musk and 184 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos have this sense it you've got to get 185 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: off the planet to have some stability in the long run. 186 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: Let me take you back to it recently has made 187 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: you even more famous, and that is this particular discovery 188 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: of three I atlas. What are the characteristics that make 189 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: this questionable as opposed to just being automatically labeled as 190 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: a natural object. 191 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 2: Well, as soon as it was discovered on July first, 192 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 2: I realized it's very big. It was bright discovered by 193 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 2: a telescope that is just half a meter in diameter, 194 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 2: and I calculated if the brightness stems from a reflection 195 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 2: of sunlight from a surface of an object, it should 196 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 2: be twenty kilometers in diameter, as big as Manhattan Island. 197 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 2: And that's pretty big. That's as big as the asteroid 198 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 2: that killed the dinosaurs, and such objects are extremely rare. 199 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 2: There are many more small ones than big ones. And 200 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 2: it's more than a million times more massive than the 201 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 2: first interstellar objects. So I was wondering, how is that 202 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 2: possible that the third object would be a million times 203 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 2: more massive than the first object? And I calculated that 204 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 2: there isn't enough rocky material in interstellar space to deliver 205 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 2: such a big package to our backyard over a decade. 206 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 2: You would expect it once per ten thousand years or longer. 207 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 2: In fact, I wrote this paper while going on vacation 208 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 2: for the fourth of July, and I told my wife 209 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 2: I need some free time to write it. She was 210 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 2: very accommodating. The other possibility is that, you know, maybe 211 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 2: it was targeting the inner Solar system. It's not drawn 212 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 2: out of the reservoir of random rocks, and so that 213 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 2: means the trajectory was designed by some intelligence. And I 214 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 2: had it in a final sentence in my paper, which 215 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 2: the editor of the journal refused to publish. He said, 216 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: you must remove this last sentence, and the rebel I am. 217 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 2: I removed the senses, but then I wrote a whole 218 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 2: paper just about the technological option, because I don't think 219 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 2: that in the modern time we should allow censorship of ideas. 220 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 2: It doesn't make any sense. And this editor went to 221 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 2: speak with the New York Post and said that this 222 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 2: is nonsense, and I thought it's completely inappropriate. And at 223 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 2: any event, this object turns out to also follow the 224 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 2: plane of the planets around the Sun with a chance 225 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 2: of one in five hundred. It's within five degrees of 226 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 2: the so called the ecliptic plane. And again that suggests 227 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 2: some kind of a record ones trans mission, because it 228 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 2: basically allows the NASA Observatory. So NASA had a press 229 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 2: conference just a couple of days ago, and they were 230 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 2: talking about how easy it is to observe three I 231 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 2: atlas with many of their assets in space, including orbiters 232 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:21,359 Speaker 2: of Mars, rovers on Mars, and all kinds of other missions. 233 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 2: And the reason for that is simple. This object is 234 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 2: flying in the plane of the planets, and it actually 235 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 2: comes very close to some planets like Mars, Venus, Jupiter. 236 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 2: It avoids the Earth, by the way, so they should 237 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 2: be extremely grateful if this is a natural object. It's 238 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 2: just a miracle that it's first so big that it's 239 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 2: very bright. I calculate that's a chance of less than 240 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 2: one in a thousand for it to be that bright. 241 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 2: And then in addition to that, it's also in the 242 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 2: plane where all of our space assets are, and that's 243 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 2: a chance of less than one in one hundred. It's 244 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 2: altogether less than one in one hundred thousand just considering 245 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 2: these two anomalies. On top of that, it's shedding nickel 246 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 2: with very little iron. NASA in the press conference showed 247 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 2: the best image we have from closest when it came 248 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 2: closest to Mars, the high rise come around both the 249 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 2: Mars reconnaissance ORBITA was able to get a snapshot of it, 250 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 2: and it looks as if there is a glow flight 251 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 2: preceding it instead of trailing it. And it's not in 252 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 2: the direction of the sun. It doesn't look like a 253 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 2: cometary tail. It's in the direction of motion, as if 254 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 2: there is a beam of light or a beam of 255 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 2: particles illuminating the path ahead of the object. If it 256 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 2: were technological, of course that makes sense because it wants 257 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 2: to avoid any damage from impact by micro meteorites or 258 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 2: some objects along the path. But if it's natural, it 259 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 2: remains to be explained. And my approach to it is, 260 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 2: let's collect more evidence, because it's a blind date of 261 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 2: interstellar proportion, and in a blind date you better observe 262 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 2: the other side before having an opinion. 263 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,479 Speaker 1: Now, as I understand, we don't yet have the technology 264 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: which would have allowed us to intercept this, even with 265 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: robots on the way. I'm just to figure out what 266 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: the hell's going on. We're still probably least a generation 267 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: away from that kind of capability. 268 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 2: There is a caveat to that, because this object is 269 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 2: moving in the plane, it will come closest to Jupiter 270 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 2: on March sixteenth, twenty twenty six, and two months ago 271 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 2: I wrote a paper saying, if we could just use 272 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 2: the fuel on the Juno spacecraft that is orbiting Jupiter, 273 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 2: it may actually be able to intercept to get very 274 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 2: close to this object. And the following day after I 275 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 2: submitted my paper, I had a phone call from Representative 276 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 2: Anna Paulina Luna, who wanted an update about Free Atlas, 277 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 2: and I told her about this opportunity to use Juno, 278 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 2: and very graciously she wrote a letter to the Acting 279 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 2: Administrator of NASA, Sean Duffy, and encourage NASA to look 280 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 2: into that. Turns out now that the Juno spacecraft doesn't 281 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 2: have enough fuel. They used most of their fuel, but 282 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 2: if it had the original amount of fuel that it 283 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 2: started with, it could have actually even collided with three 284 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 2: I at last, because there was enough lead time. So 285 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,880 Speaker 2: the point is that if you know about an object 286 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,439 Speaker 2: early enough, you don't need to maneuver in order to 287 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 2: intercept it by a lot. And then what we need 288 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 2: is some fleet of spacecraft that is ready for the 289 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 2: next interestellar object in case they can maneuver ahead of 290 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 2: time and just be in the right place at the 291 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 2: right time, get a closeup photograph or even crash into it, 292 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:40,880 Speaker 2: or give us much more information about it. 293 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: You raise a question which I think we're on the 294 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: same page. We notice what mathematically is the likelihood that 295 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: we're alone in the entire universe, and it just seems 296 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: to me it's almost impossible, right. 297 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 2: I think it's arrogant of us to believe that we 298 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 2: are not only alone, but the top of the food chain. 299 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 2: We are definitely not at the top of the food 300 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 2: chain in the Milky Way galaxy. But I can understand 301 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 2: where the notion in academia comes from. And so we 302 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 2: as a civilization, including academia, have not matured yet. Because 303 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 2: right now, the highest priority in the decatal Survey of 304 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 2: astronomy and astrophysics in the United States is to invest 305 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 2: more than ten billion dollars in the next two decades 306 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 2: in search for microbes on other planets. And it's just 307 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 2: like seeing a lot of houses similar to your own house. 308 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,239 Speaker 2: There are lots of Earth's sun analogs, maybe tens of 309 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 2: billions of them in the Milky Way galaxy alone, And 310 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 2: then we see a lot of houses on our street 311 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 2: that look like ours, and we say, okay, well, we 312 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 2: have plenty of microbes in our home. Therefore, let's search 313 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 2: for microps in the houses next to us. And for 314 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 2: that you need to build a huge instrument that caused 315 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 2: a lot of money to search for microps in the 316 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 2: neighbor's yard. And it's not easy. But if there is 317 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 2: a resident in one of these houses, the resident might 318 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 2: show up at our front door, or might throw a 319 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 2: tennis ball that we find in our backyard, or might 320 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 2: have a construction project that we can see from a distance. 321 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 2: So my point is we should hedge our beds. Of course, 322 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 2: we can search for microbs. However, we should also at 323 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 2: the same time invest billions of dollars in the search 324 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 2: for technological civilizations, and the benefit would be far greater 325 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 2: than finding microps because we can learn from them. We 326 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 2: might learn about new technologies, new science. It will inspire 327 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 2: us to go to space, and it will change our 328 00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 2: focus from conflicts on this rock that we all in 329 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 2: habit to think more broadly about the future of the 330 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 2: human species. 331 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: I remember correct, it's kind of on a voluntary basis, 332 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: but a long period of trying to listen for radio waves, 333 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: et cetera. That's really been I think a worldwide project 334 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: but I think they haven't yet found any radio waves 335 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: that they're confident they can identify. 336 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 2: And that is like waiting for a phone call. It's 337 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 2: a different approach. And you might be on a street 338 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 2: where there residents, but nobody may call you either because 339 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,919 Speaker 2: the technologies you are using are not suited to the 340 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 2: way they are transmitting their signals. Maybe we are using 341 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 2: radio communication that is a very ancient technology and they 342 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 2: have something much better to communicate, or they behave like 343 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 2: as if they live in a dark forest. You know, 344 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 2: that is called the dark forest hypothesis. They're worried about predators, 345 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 2: so they don't make a sound and they listen. And 346 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 2: over the past century, we've been transmitting radio waves without 347 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 2: any concern. So everyone within one hundred light years from 348 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 2: Earth knows about us, and they monitor what we are doing, 349 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 2: and perhaps they will come to visit us as soon 350 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 2: as we pose a threat to them. Just waiting to 351 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 2: listen to a radio signal is not necessarily the right approach, 352 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,959 Speaker 2: and my point is we should try something else, because 353 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 2: Einstein said, you know, if you keep trying the same 354 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 2: thing hoping for a different result, then you're not necessarily 355 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 2: very smart. 356 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: You're clearly very enthusiastic about science and very enthusiastic about knowledge. 357 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 1: How did you get into all this when you were 358 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: a kid? What drew you into this? 359 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,679 Speaker 2: I grew up on a farm. Haven't changed much if 360 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 2: you ask people who knew me. Back then, I was 361 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 2: collecting eggs every afternoon, but then on weekends I would 362 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,479 Speaker 2: drive a tractor to the hills of the village and 363 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 2: read philosophy books. I was interested in the most fundamental 364 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 2: questions about our existence, so I wanted to pursue philosophy. 365 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 2: But then I grew up in Israel, and there is 366 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 2: an obligatory military service at age eighteen, so I preferred 367 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 2: to go to a program. I was recruited to a 368 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 2: program that allowed me to pursue science. For me, it 369 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 2: was the closest approximation to philosophy. I can still ask 370 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 2: big questions. And around that time President Rigan had the 371 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 2: Strategic Defense Initiative and General Abramson visited Israel. He was 372 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 2: the head of SDI, the Star Wars Initiative, and I 373 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 2: presented to him a project that was the first one 374 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 2: to be funded, the first international project to be funded 375 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 2: by SDI that I led, along with an experimentalist, and 376 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,719 Speaker 2: that brought me to Washington because we were funded at 377 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,479 Speaker 2: a few million dollars a year back then. And in 378 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 2: one of the visits, I visited Princeton and they offered 379 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 2: me a five year fellowship under one condition that I 380 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 2: switched to astrophysics. And so it was just like an 381 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 2: offer from the Godfather that I couldn't decline because it's 382 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 2: a very prestigious institution, the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton, 383 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 2: where Einstein was faculty a few DECs earlier. Eventually I 384 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 2: was offered a faculty position at Havard and they tenured 385 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 2: me again with a low probability. And at that point 386 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 2: I realized that even though it was an arranged marriage, 387 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 2: I'm married to my true love because I can pursue 388 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 2: fundamental questions using the scientific metal. 389 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 1: That's actually a great story. I'm curious if somebody who 390 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 1: was listening to us today, I'm curious, what advice would 391 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 1: you give to them if they were eighteen twenty years 392 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 1: old about going into science. 393 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 2: So my advice is, of course, you need to dance 394 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 2: to the tunes of selection committees to get tenure in academia. 395 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 2: So for a limited period of time. Do that, but 396 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,360 Speaker 2: never pretend to be the adult in the room. Always 397 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 2: maintain your childhood curiosity. And when you get tenure, innovate. 398 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 2: Take risks. Because you know, we live for such a 399 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 2: short time. What's the point of doing what everyone else 400 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 2: is doing? There is really not much to that. There 401 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 2: is an opportunity to do that. It's not very common, 402 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 2: but it's possible and it's a lot of fun. Now. 403 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 2: Of course, there will always be people who push back, 404 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 2: but who cares about people. I don't have any footprint 405 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,719 Speaker 2: on social media. I'm not trying to get the likes. 406 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 2: That is not my ambition. It's so much fun to 407 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 2: figure out nature and pursue science. And the biggest reward 408 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 2: I got in recent weeks is to get emails, for example, 409 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 2: from a former US Air Force pilot who said, because 410 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 2: of you, my daughter wants to become a scientist, and 411 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 2: a woman said, my son now wants a telescope for 412 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 2: the holidays as a gift. I get dozens of those emails. 413 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 2: For me to inspire the public to pursue science is 414 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 2: extremely important because science right now has a very low 415 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 2: status in the public's eyes. It's the occupation of the elite, 416 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 2: and I'm trying to show that it's work in progress. 417 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 2: We can make mistakes, but I'm showing how the process 418 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 2: is done by not having a prejudice, by trying to 419 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 2: follow the evidence detective. It's the work of a detective, 420 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 2: and the public loves that. And in addition, the possibility 421 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 2: that we might not be alone in the universe, we 422 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 2: might have an intelligent neighbor. You know, that's also very 423 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 2: appealing to the public. So to me, that's a way 424 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 2: to elevate the image of science in the public's eyes, 425 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 2: and that's very appropriate. We should do that because the 426 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,360 Speaker 2: public funds science. It's actually the most amazing tool that 427 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 2: our society has to make progress. It's really unfortunate that 428 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 2: academia betrayed the fundamental curiosity that leads science. For I 429 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:35,719 Speaker 2: see the path of how to do that. You need 430 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 2: to start from a sense of humility, not being the 431 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 2: arrogantas and expert saying we know the answer in advance, 432 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 2: but actually saying let's figure it out. And that's a 433 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 2: point of view that was not really echoed in the 434 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 2: NASA press conference. They were saying, it's a comet, we 435 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 2: know what it is. Three I atlas, it just came 436 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 2: from a different environment. Well, how do you know that? Like, 437 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 2: why not say? There are lots of we don't fully 438 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 2: understand and we hope to figure them out with more data. 439 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 2: And it's an amazing opportunity for us to learn more 440 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 2: about what lies outside the solar system, like give a 441 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 2: different approach to doing science and the public would be 442 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 2: fascinated by. And of course there is also the issue 443 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 2: of funding of science in Washington, DC, and I do 444 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 2: believe that if we were to approach it from a 445 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 2: point of view that satisfies the curiosity of the public 446 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 2: and helps future technologies, then we should be able to 447 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 2: get more funding to science in Washington as well. And 448 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,400 Speaker 2: I would be delighted to discuss it with anyone related 449 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 2: to the White House. 450 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: One reasons I really want to do this interview with 451 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: you is because you have raised some questions which if 452 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,479 Speaker 1: you're a young person, someddenly gets your brain working totally 453 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: outside the normal memorize what we've already learned, and gets 454 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: you into being curious about what we haven't learned. And 455 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 1: in a sense, science at its best is about the 456 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,919 Speaker 1: next thing we're going to learn, not the last thing 457 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: we memorized. I think you do that very well. You know, 458 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,199 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for joining me. This is 459 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 1: one of the things I most wanted to do this far. 460 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: It's sort of my thanksgiving President. I guess to myself, 461 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: it's a very exciting time to be paying attention to 462 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: the skies and to what we're discovering. I do want 463 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: to remind our listeners that your articles can be found 464 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: at alvedosh Lobe dot medium dot com. You've really done 465 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: a lot, I think to help science and a lot 466 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 1: to help America in thinking about things beyond our planet 467 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: and in fact, things beyond our solar system. It's a 468 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: great honor to me to have you as a guest today. 469 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. And my mantra is always that 470 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 2: the best is yet to come. You know. I had 471 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,640 Speaker 2: a lot of file cabinets in my office that I 472 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 2: threw away because the most accomplished sculptor in the US, 473 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 2: Greg Wyatt, decided to donate two sculptures, bronze sculptures of 474 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 2: Galilogalile and fifty one on watercolors. So I just removed 475 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 2: the past from my office and it's now a mini museum. 476 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 2: And I told my administrator you know, I'm focused on 477 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 2: the future. I don't care about what happened in the past, 478 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,360 Speaker 2: and let's make the future better. And that's my approach. 479 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: Well, thank you very very much for spending your time 480 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: with us. 481 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 2: My pleasure and honor. 482 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest professor Avi Lobe. News World 483 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 1: is produced by Ginglish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive 484 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: producers Guernsey Sloan, our researchers Rachel Peterson. The artwork for 485 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: the show's created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to team 486 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: at Gingish three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newts World, 487 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: I hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts and both rate 488 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: us with five stars and give us a review so 489 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: others can learn what it's all about. Join me on 490 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: substat at gingrish three sixty dot net. I'm new Gingrich. 491 00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: This is new tool.