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Speaker 2: So in recent comments to reporters, Stevin Miller floated suspending

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Speaker 2: habeas corpus. Really take a listen to how he lays

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Speaker 2: this out here, because I think there are some several

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Speaker 2: significant things he says.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 4: Well, the Constitution is clear and that, of course is

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Speaker 4: the supreme law of the land that the privilege of

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Speaker 4: the writ of habeas corpus can be suspended in a

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Speaker 4: time of invasion. So it would say that's an option we're

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Speaker 4: actively looking at. Look, a lot of it depends on

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Speaker 4: whether the courts do the right thing or not. At

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Speaker 4: the end of the day, Congress passed the body of

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Speaker 4: law known as the Immigration Nationality Act, which stripped Article

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Speaker 4: three courts. That's the judicial branch of jurisdiction over immigration cases.

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Speaker 4: So Congress actually passed is called jurisdiction stripping legislation. It

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Speaker 4: passed a number of laws that say that the Article

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Speaker 4: three courts aren't even allowed to be involved in immigration cases.

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Speaker 4: Many of you probably don't know this. I'll give you

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Speaker 4: a good example. Are you familiar with the term Temporary

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Speaker 4: protect the Status or TPS. Right, So, by statute, the

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Speaker 4: courts are stripped of jurisdiction from overruling a presidential determination

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Speaker 4: or a secretarial determination on TPS when the Secretary of

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Speaker 4: Home Insecurity makes that determination. So when Secretary Nome terminated

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Speaker 4: TPS for the illegals that Biden flew into the country,

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Speaker 4: when courts stepped in, they were violating explicit language that

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Speaker 4: Congress had enacted saying they have no jurisdiction. So it's

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Speaker 4: not just the courts aren't just at war with the

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Speaker 4: executive branch. The courts are at war these radical rogue

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Speaker 4: judges with the legislative branch as well too, So all

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Speaker 4: of that will inform the choice that the president ultimately makes.

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Speaker 5: Yes, christ I just want to say Stephen Miller is

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Speaker 5: at war with the Trump administration there because the Trump

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Speaker 5: administration stopped the invasion.

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Speaker 3: Oh, yes, true.

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Speaker 5: It's an amazing Yeah, it's an amazing contradiction.

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Speaker 3: So are we being invaded or are we not being invaded?

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Speaker 5: They are justifying this threat of habeas corpus on the

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Speaker 5: idea that we are under invasion. Right, They're also touting

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Speaker 5: that they have completely shut down the southern border. So

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Speaker 5: these two things are absolutely in contradiction. I was supposed

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Speaker 5: to have be on the New media pool duty yesterday,

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Speaker 5: but they called a lid. Yeah, and that was like

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Speaker 5: the top question that I was going to ask, Like

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Speaker 5: which one is true? Did you stop the invasion or

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Speaker 5: can we have habeas corpus because we're being invated?

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Speaker 2: That is a fantastic question. And I mean the key

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Speaker 2: line there, which squares the circle, so.

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Speaker 3: To speak, is or whatever, Yeah, got you know what

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Speaker 3: I'm saying?

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Speaker 2: Got it anyway? Is he says it depends on whether

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Speaker 2: the do the right thing or not. So also the invasion,

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Speaker 2: apparently that would justify this depends on whether.

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Speaker 3: Or not they like the court's decisions.

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Speaker 2: In terms of the last thing that he lays out

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Speaker 2: there about the court stripping position provisions, et cetera. You know,

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Speaker 2: my reading, based on other people who understand this stuff

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Speaker 2: way better than I do, is that he's really playing

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Speaker 2: fast and loose with the facts there, and that yes,

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Speaker 2: there are court stripping provisions basically that push immigration law

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Speaker 2: into immigration courts, but appeals into federal courts, as you

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Speaker 2: would expect, and that is the process that's been playing

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Speaker 2: out in the court system that we've seen. But you know,

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Speaker 2: when you hear him say this, of course there's a

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Speaker 2: question of, well, is this just Steven Miller doing Steven

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Speaker 2: Miller's stuff and you know, trying to make a spectacle

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Speaker 2: or raise some threat, But they're not really that serious

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Speaker 2: about it. On the contrary, CNN at least has reporting

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Speaker 2: that Trump has been directly involved in these discussions himself.

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Speaker 3: We can put this up on the screen.

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Speaker 2: He's been personally involved in discussions inside the administration of

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Speaker 2: potentially suspending habeas corpus lego, procedure that allows people to

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Speaker 2: challenge their detention in court. While Trump has not explicitly

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Speaker 2: mentioned habeas corpus in public. It was what he was

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Speaker 2: referencing last month when he commented on steps he could

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Speaker 2: take to combat nationwide injunctions against his actions on deportations.

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Speaker 2: According to one of the people familiar with the talks,

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Speaker 2: and we actually have that sound of Trump sort of

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Speaker 2: vaguely alluding to what Stephen Miller is laying out explicitly here.

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Speaker 3: Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

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Speaker 6: You mentioned this last night in your speech and home.

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Speaker 6: We're basically an unprecedented situation. There's a lot of abuses

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Speaker 6: of nationwide injunctions, so we're seemingly designed to sort kill

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Speaker 6: your power, specifically when it comes to deporting these idegal,

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Speaker 6: violent aliens that came in or the previous administration. Have

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Speaker 6: you spoked your team couplays to mitigate this and continue to.

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Speaker 7: Deliver femare Yeah, Well, there are ways to mitigate it,

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Speaker 7: and there's some very strong ways. There's one way that's

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Speaker 7: been used by three very highly respected presidents, but we

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Speaker 7: hope we don't have to go that route. But there

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Speaker 7: is one way that has been used very successfully by

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Speaker 7: three presidents, all highly respected, and hopefully we don't have

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Speaker 7: to go that way, but there are ways of mitigating it.

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Speaker 2: So I believe Emily the three presidents he's referring to

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Speaker 2: are Abraham Lincoln most famously. I would say, Grant during

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Speaker 2: reconstruction to try to get the violence of the KKK

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Speaker 2: under control.

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Speaker 3: And then George W.

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Speaker 2: Bush wouldn't necessarily say highly respect to that one during

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Speaker 2: the we're.

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Speaker 8: Also taking the Iraq war plans.

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Speaker 2: That's true, so I guess there we're rehabbing George W.

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Speaker 3: Bush with this administration.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, so during the war on terror and effectively, look,

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Speaker 2: what they want to be able to do is say

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Speaker 2: whoever they want to designate as you know, a quote

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Speaker 2: unquote terrorists, whether that's a cartel association or a tattoo

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Speaker 2: or just because they say so, or perhaps someone who

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Speaker 2: harbors ill will against a tesla, or who said the

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Speaker 2: wrong thing with regard to Palestine or Israel, or who

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Speaker 2: dared to protest and a hands off protest or something

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Speaker 2: like that against the Trump administration. I'm not making these

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Speaker 2: examples up, by the way. These are all groups that

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Speaker 2: have been floated as domestic terrorists by the Trump administration,

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Speaker 2: by Trump administration officials that they can just snatch them

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Speaker 2: up and imprison them indefinitely without them being able to

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Speaker 2: challenge that imprisonment as unlawful. That's what they are contemplating here,

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Speaker 2: and I think most immediately they're contemplating it in the

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Speaker 2: context of the of Immigration and obviously their plan to

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Speaker 2: use the Alien Enemies Act to effectively get around any

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Speaker 2: sort of court challenges and just ship people into these

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Speaker 2: foreign goologs where they've never been heard, where they can

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Speaker 2: never be heard from. Again, that has been in large

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Speaker 2: part blocked by the courts. They're very unhappy with the

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Speaker 2: court decisions, and so now this is the next path

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Speaker 2: to try to effectuate this same lawless outcome via you know,

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Speaker 2: a different legal patina that they're going for.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think some of this is van Miller

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Speaker 5: trying to ratchet up pressure on judges. I think, of course,

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Speaker 5: whenever you see Trump or top officials, someone as powerful

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Speaker 5: as Stephen Miller flirting with this stuff in public, you

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Speaker 5: have to absolutely take it seriously.

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Speaker 8: If I had to.

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Speaker 5: Guess, I would say that Steven Miller's strategy here is

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Speaker 5: ratcheting up pressure on judges, and that he is not

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Speaker 5: entirely serious about doing this.

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Speaker 8: Because of what we were mentioning.

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Speaker 5: Earlier just that it would make it, you know, it

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Speaker 5: would make it appears that there's an ongoing invasion during

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Speaker 5: the Trump administration, which is going to become an increasing

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Speaker 5: problem for their immigration crackdown period. As you mentioned, that's

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Speaker 5: what they're justifying some of these deportations with the idea

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Speaker 5: that there's an invasion that is being orchestrated trend by

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Speaker 5: the Venezuelan government through trend at raguall which even I

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Speaker 5: think John Hudson had this in the Washington Post, even

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Speaker 5: the Trump administration's own intelligence underminds that's not being orchestrated

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Speaker 5: by the government of Venezuela.

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Speaker 2: So I mean, and a Trump, a Trump appointed judge

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Speaker 2: said the same, said effectively like this is a preposterous

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Speaker 2: invocation of the Alien Enemies Act.

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Speaker 3: It fails on every level.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, yep.

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Speaker 5: The last thing I wanted to say on this is

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Speaker 5: I think it is fair to point out that there

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Speaker 5: have been some real abuses, abuses of the Universal Injunctions,

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Speaker 5: and there's been at executive functions. Jackline and Goldsmith has

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Speaker 5: been following this in a really interesting way and a

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Speaker 5: very critical way that is very critical of Donald Trump. Basically,

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Speaker 5: you know, we were talking about this in our earlier

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Speaker 5: corruption block. In general, there has been just a lot

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Speaker 5: of norm sliding since twenty sixteen, as everyone kind of knows,

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Speaker 5: or maybe backsliding norm backsliding is one way to put it.

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Speaker 5: And it is true that some of this so, for example,

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Speaker 5: administrative stays. He writes, the practice of administrative stays against

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Speaker 5: executive action, according to Christopher Moore, was basically unheard of

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Speaker 5: before twenty twenty two. And he says that the Trump

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Speaker 5: administration arguments against single federal judges in joining programs on

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Speaker 5: a universal basis are entirely legitimate, meaning there have been

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Speaker 5: a lot of cases in this second Trump administration where

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Speaker 5: judges are acting alone on a national basis with these

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Speaker 5: universal injunctions in ways that are inappropriate. That said, obviously,

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Speaker 5: he goes on to say, some of this is because

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Speaker 5: the Trump administration itself is doing some unprecedented as taking

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Speaker 5: some unprecedented steps.

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Speaker 8: So I think we're in one of those situations.

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Speaker 5: Where it's like the answer to Trump's craziness might also

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Speaker 5: be crazy. It's just sort of a question of how

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Speaker 5: do you get out of the doom spiral? And that's

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Speaker 5: pretty like that that feels. I guess I feel very

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Speaker 5: pessimistic about.

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Speaker 3: That, Crystal. I indeed I do as well. Emily, I

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Speaker 3: do as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it reminds me of you know, one of the

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Speaker 2: talking points that Trump administration officials and defenders like to

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Speaker 2: say is like, no president has faced, no presential administration

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Speaker 2: has faced more lawsuits. It's like, well, yeah, because they

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Speaker 2: haven't done as much illegal shit, just like wildly in less,

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Speaker 2: you know, in one hundred days or less as you

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Speaker 2: all have. So there's a logical reason why you're facing

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Speaker 2: so much trouble with the courts. And it's on immigration,

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Speaker 2: it's on a lot of the DOGE activity has been

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Speaker 2: enjoined and you know ultimately will likely be struck down.

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Speaker 2: You can see that there is has been with this administration,

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Speaker 2: I think, and intentionally you talked about this as well.

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Speaker 2: They just decided they don't really care about the law.

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Speaker 2: They're going to do what they want to do and

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Speaker 2: then let the courts have to clean up the mess exactly.

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Speaker 3: And so then when the courts come.

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Speaker 2: In, are like, you can't do that, and you know,

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Speaker 2: you can't just shut down the CFPB, you can't just

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Speaker 2: shut down USAID. You can't just decide that you don't

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Speaker 2: like this program, so you're not going to spend the

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Speaker 2: money that was congressionally appropriated. You can't just ship people

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Speaker 2: to foreign gulog no due process. You can't admit that

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Speaker 2: you wrongfully deported this person and then be like, we're

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Speaker 2: not going to do anything about it. Though when they

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Speaker 2: come in to clean up the mess, you don't get

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Speaker 2: to kick and scream about it, because your whole plan

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Speaker 2: was We're going to break a lot of laws and

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Speaker 2: then force the courts to have to come in and

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Speaker 2: clean up the mess afterwards. So, you know, I think

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Speaker 2: that is a kind of ratcheting up that is that

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Speaker 2: they I'm sure anticipated was going to come as a

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Speaker 2: result here, And so I think the significance of the

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Speaker 2: Miller comments like, I think you have to take these

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Speaker 2: things very seriously at this point because of the way

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Speaker 2: the Trump administration has conducted themselves, and clearly they do

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Speaker 2: have a goal of getting around normal due process and

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Speaker 2: normal checks that have existed, you know, in this country

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Speaker 2: since the founding and you know, going back to like

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Speaker 2: the you know, magne Karta in terms of legal principles.

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Speaker 5: And pulling out all of the documentary my pocket man.

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Speaker 8: You should sell Breaking Points branded pocket magnet.

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Speaker 5: Oh gosh, Soccer would love that. We shouldn't even speak

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Speaker 5: it into existence because.

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Speaker 3: He'll be our baby gift to him.

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Speaker 5: That. By the way, if you're not following executive functions,

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Speaker 5: shout out to them. They're pretty Trump critical, but I

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Speaker 5: do find them pretty helpful.

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Speaker 8: And just one more point from Goldsmith, who writes he's

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Speaker 8: argued the.

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Speaker 5: Administration has a legitimate complain about universal injunctions administrative states

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Speaker 5: that should ultimately be resolved by Supreme Court of Congress.

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Speaker 5: There is a pattern of mostly democratic point at district

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Speaker 5: judges and joining Trump initiatives, just as there was a

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Speaker 5: similar and indeed more extreme in terms of percentages mirrored

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Speaker 5: pattern during the Biden years. But to know whether the

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty five pattern reflects real or systemic bias, we

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Speaker 5: would need to assess a whole slew of issues. And

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Speaker 5: this is I'm just gonna list this out so we

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Speaker 5: know what to keep our eye on going forward. The

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Speaker 5: influence of plaintiff forum shopping, the profile of judges who

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Speaker 5: denied relief, and the abundant evidence that Trump two point

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Speaker 5: zero is not taking legal compliance seriously. So those are

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Speaker 5: the things to follow, I think going forward in this

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Speaker 5: broader narrative of the universal injunctions in the.

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Speaker 3: Stays yeah, because I mean some things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, their extraordinary actions have required extraordinary actions as well.

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Speaker 2: And even so the courts can't really can't really keep up.

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Speaker 2: You aren't really a match for and in the Trump

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Speaker 2: administration to that point has just in many instances said yeah,

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Speaker 2: we got this ruling against us, We're still not really

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Speaker 2: going to comply, like we'll do a little bit, or

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Speaker 2: we'll pay some lip service, or we'll sort of like

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Speaker 2: pretend that we're that we read it a different way, etc.

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Speaker 2: But you know, in many and many of them, not

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Speaker 2: the high profile like Kilmar Bargo Garcia, but some of

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Speaker 2: the decisions that have gone against Doge, for example, where

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Speaker 2: they say, okay, you have to reinstate this money and

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Speaker 2: then they just don't.

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Speaker 8: Well yeah, and you're right, you mentioned this just really

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Speaker 8: quickly as we wrap up.

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Speaker 5: That's part of the strategy here is to throw as

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Speaker 5: many novel legal theories at the wall and see what sticks.

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Speaker 8: That's very much the Alien Enemies Act.

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Speaker 5: A lot of people in Trump circles would say, listen,

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Speaker 5: what we're doing is taking this action while it works

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Speaker 5: its way through the courts, and if the courts go

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Speaker 5: one way. Trump has said this many times, we'll follow

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Speaker 5: the courts. And that's because, as dangerous as it is

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Speaker 5: to even tell that line, the reason they're doing that

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Speaker 5: is so that they can get as much done as

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Speaker 5: quickly as possible. So it's not just a messaging flood

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Speaker 5: zone strategy visa Vi Bannon, but it's actually just about

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Speaker 5: trying as many different strategies as they can to get

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Speaker 5: things done while the courts go through the process. Otherwise

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Speaker 5: they feel like they won't have enough time to take

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Speaker 5: as many ramatic actions. Dose is a really good example

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Speaker 5: of this, just folding the CFPB for example, Well, it's

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Speaker 5: basically done like that, that's already happened. Yeah, So, I

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Speaker 5: mean it's under they've kind of like truncated it and

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Speaker 5: moved it and to formally close it have to go

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Speaker 5: through Congress.

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Speaker 8: But now the overtime window has just been exploded.

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Speaker 5: So when the CFPB, if it goes to the Reconciliation

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Speaker 5: Bill that they're getting rid of it, it's less of

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Speaker 5: a fight because we've gone through five months now without

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Speaker 5: the CFPB.

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Speaker 2: Creative facts on the ground, yeap, just really quick. I

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Speaker 2: wanted to get this in the show because this is

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Speaker 2: just wild. Put this up on the screen. So Trump

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Speaker 2: has by and large suspended refugee resettlement, with one very

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Speaker 2: specific example, which is white South Africans are not only

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Speaker 2: being granted refugee status by Trump, but they're also being

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Speaker 2: given you know, funds and plane tickets and all sorts

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Speaker 2: of assistants to relocate here. So you know, this is

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Speaker 2: a Elon Musk Steven Miller project. You've ever seen one.

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Speaker 2: So you know, the refugees fleeing wars and persecution from

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Speaker 2: any other place around the world, Nope, even ones who

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Speaker 2: had been you know, absolutely vetted people, you know, people

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Speaker 2: in Afghanistan for example, who had helped our own troops

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Speaker 2: during the war there at grave risk to themselves. And

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Speaker 2: now you've got the Taliban back in power, their refugee

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Speaker 2: resettlement applications being torn up even though they're vetted, ready

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Speaker 2: to go, that's not happening.

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Speaker 3: But white South Africans they're.

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Speaker 2: Being you know, given the green light and the red

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Speaker 2: carpet rolled out for them to come here.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. And part of the reason is that the Trump

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Speaker 5: administration feels as though this is a really clear cut

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Speaker 5: contrast with some of the BS asylum claims. So it's

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Speaker 5: not that they aren't sympathetic stories, but they are economic

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Speaker 5: cases that people have claimed asylum come much of the

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Speaker 5: unit ST's words claimed asylum, and in some cases I

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Speaker 5: think this is probably true with Kilmar Abrego Garcia, but

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Speaker 5: who knows. We actually asked his attorney about this a

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Speaker 5: month or two ago about the legitimacy of his asylum

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Speaker 5: claim that he made in twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 8: So the administration feels like they have a perfect juxtaposition here.

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Speaker 5: Of people who in South Africa it is a deeply

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Speaker 5: uncomfortable thing to think about, or talk about or explore.

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Speaker 5: There is still high levels of racial violence, and that's

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Speaker 5: where they think they have this clear cut case. And

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Speaker 5: they're trolling with this because there's a Tucker did an

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Speaker 5: interesting interview actually a couple months back with a South

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Speaker 5: African civil rights activist names Ernest Rhetz, if I'm pronouncing

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Speaker 5: that correctly, and you Tucker asked him about this, and

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Speaker 5: he was like, South Africans, they don't want to leave.

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Speaker 5: So that's why I think this is a troll from

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Speaker 5: the administration to say, here's what a real asylum case

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Speaker 5: looks like versus here's what the economic migrant asylum case

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Speaker 5: looks like.

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Speaker 8: And South Africans are fighting for a reason.

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Speaker 5: It's because they don't like their family settled that land

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Speaker 5: hundreds of years ago, if you listen to their point

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Speaker 5: on it, So they feel like it would be the

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Speaker 5: opposite of what they want to do to flee to

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Speaker 5: the United States. So it's just a troll basically, Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 5: it's it's I mean, it's so.

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Speaker 2: The numbers are that white South Africans make up roughly

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Speaker 2: seven percent of the South African population and own roughly

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Speaker 2: seventy three percent of the individually held land, and their

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Speaker 2: claim is that they are the victims of such egregious

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Speaker 2: racial discrimination that their claims should go beyond those of

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Speaker 2: like I said, the you know interpreters who worked for

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Speaker 2: US in Afghanistan, or people who are fleeing Democratic Republic

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Speaker 2: of Congo or Venezuela or correct, Yeah, that's that's right,

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Speaker 2: which you know Republicans five seconds ago would have had

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Speaker 2: a very different take on that view. And so all

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Speaker 2: refugee resettlements shut down except for this group of white

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Speaker 2: South Africans, who Steve Bannon says are the most racist

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Speaker 2: people on the planet, according to Steve Bannon, just quoting him.

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Speaker 8: Just quoting, just quoting Steve.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, that Steven Miller project is ongoing. One more

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Speaker 2: piece here, which is, you know, the some of this

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Speaker 2: is breaking through with the public in terms of their

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Speaker 2: views of Trump. We can put this up on the screen.

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Speaker 2: This was a poll that was taken in the context

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Speaker 2: of Trump's first one hundred days that we didn't get

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Speaker 2: a chance to cover, but I wanted to, you know,

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Speaker 2: make sure to highlight here you have a majority of

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Speaker 2: Americans now fifty two percent who say that Trump is

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Speaker 2: a dangerous dictator whose power should be limited before he

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Speaker 2: destroys American democracy. That was the question here, and I

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Speaker 2: think this was commissioned by Axios. So fifty two percent

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Speaker 2: of all Americans, eighty seven percent of Democrats, fifty six

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Speaker 2: percent of Independence and even seventeen percent of Republicans, which

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Speaker 2: is actually a little bit higher than I would have expected.

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Speaker 2: Along racial lines, there's some racial divide here. The highest

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Speaker 2: numbers are among Americans sixty seven percent, than Latino sixty

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Speaker 2: three percent, Asian Americans, Pacific Islander fifty eight percent, and

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Speaker 2: white Americans forty five percent. So even among white people,

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Speaker 2: you're getting pretty close to a majority who say this

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Speaker 2: guy is a dangerous dictator. And you know what I've

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Speaker 2: been saying, Emily is I think as his popularity declines,

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Speaker 2: I think you will see more and more aggressive authoritarian

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Speaker 2: tactics to shut down dissent. Now, I think what we're

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Speaker 2: seeing this week, and this is very we see this

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Speaker 2: around our show. You've got the China quote unquote deal,

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Speaker 2: You've got whatever is going on in Gaza, you've got

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Speaker 2: the prescription drug thing we're about to talk about. Like,

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Speaker 2: I get the sense he realizes that his popularity is plummeting,

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Speaker 2: and he needs to do some stuff, make some announcements,

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Speaker 2: make some things happen, get some good pr get some

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Speaker 2: good headlines to try to stem the you know, the

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Speaker 2: the tide in terms of his plummeting approval rating. But

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Speaker 2: in any case, you know, even as people of course

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Speaker 2: have responded to typically respond most to their own direct

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Speaker 2: material interests, people are also, you know, in America, pretty

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Speaker 2: opposed to dictators who threaten democracy.

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Speaker 3: We're at least.

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Speaker 2: Theoretically ideally committed to having a demic product system here.

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Speaker 2: It's something that people take a lot of pride in

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Speaker 2: this country. And so I do think because his actions

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Speaker 2: have been so extraordinary, so authoritarian, and so rapid, that

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Speaker 2: the flip side of the what is Bannon called the

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Speaker 2: days of Thunder, the flood, the zone strategy of doing

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Speaker 2: so much at one time, you don't get to have

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Speaker 2: that boiling frog effect where it's just ratcheting, ratcheting, ratcheting.

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Speaker 3: This hit people over the head.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I think there's a genuine, deep concern

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Speaker 2: among a lot of people about the direction that he's

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Speaker 2: taken the country in.

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Speaker 7: Well.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and so this poll was February to March and

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Speaker 5: it was by the Public Religion Research Institute. It as

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Speaker 5: part of this like gargantuan poll. It's a very interesting

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Speaker 5: poll actually if you read all of it. And I

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Speaker 5: mean that's why I kind of thought the Bukeli stuff

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Speaker 5: was just playing with fire for the Trump administrator. Like

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Speaker 5: I think they had this idea that the Cali stuff

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Speaker 5: made them look cool. And I think to most Americans

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Speaker 5: it's like there's nothing cool about Bukele, Like he's so sad,

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Speaker 5: Like it's it's such a ridiculous thing.

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Speaker 8: That he's doing. I call himself a cool dictator.

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Speaker 5: Maybe it flies in Latin America does not fly in

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Speaker 5: the United States like it just it doesn't hit the

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Speaker 5: same way here. Now, the poll juxtaposed that question that

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Speaker 5: you just read with so dangerous dictator. Also that he's

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Speaker 5: a strong leader restoring America's greatness was the other option,

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Speaker 5: that he's a strong leader who should be given the

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Speaker 5: power he needs to restore America's greatness. And then I

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Speaker 5: think there was like a skip option. So it was

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Speaker 5: fifty two to forty four in that question. Interestingly, in

439
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 5: that poll, he had a forty three percent approval rating,

440
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 5: which means that there's probably some overlap of people who

441
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,920
Speaker 5: approve of the job he's doing and also see him.

442
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,640
Speaker 2: As a Well, that's why I was noting the Republican

443
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,800
Speaker 2: numbers seventeen percent saying he's a dangerous dictator. I'm sure

444
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 2: he probably, you know, is a Republican approval rating is

445
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 2: probably ninety percent.

446
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 8: It's probably pretty hard.

447
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 2: So there's probably you know, some percentage in there that

448
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,320
Speaker 2: are like, yeah, he's a dictator, but hey.

449
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 3: You do what you gotta do.

450
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,120
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's probably true.

451
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I mean that's that unfortunately, is what we've

452
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 2: learned throughout history is when democracy is unable to deliver benefits,

453
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 2: then guess what.

454
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 3: People start to become curious. And I do think that's

455
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 3: where we are.

456
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 8: It feels like desperate times.

457
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,400
Speaker 5: And I mean, if we don't even talk about this enough,

458
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 5: nobody talks about this enough. How useless Congress has become

459
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 5: just utterly useless. This is even if you're look at you,

460
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 5: if you were a Republican right now, you're looking at

461
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,920
Speaker 5: Republicans holding the presidency, the House, and the Senate, and

462
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 5: all they can do is muster a reconciliation bill because

463
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 5: they're not confident in their numbers. There's no way for

464
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 5: them to build consensus to pass major pieces of legislation.

465
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,959
Speaker 5: They have punted so much of their responsibilities to administrated

466
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 5: agencies and to the president itself.

467
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 8: I mean, just to try to take back tariff power.

468
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 8: They couldn't even get.

469
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,400
Speaker 5: That pass, in part because Democrat was like traveling overseas

470
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 5: and didn't even care enough about the freaking vote.

471
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 8: So Congress is just it's a really dangerous situation.

472
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 5: How much or how how atrophied the political process of

473
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 5: like republican government is.

474
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,680
Speaker 2: Although, to be honest with you, I don't know that

475
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 2: that is really necessary. Like we've talked about this in

476
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 2: the context of immigration. This will be a good transition

477
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 2: to the prescription drug piece. Yes, Democrats were ready to

478
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,239
Speaker 2: capitulate on all kinds of immigration things, like if they

479
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 2: have wanted to work through a congressional process to accomplish something,

480
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 2: especially in the very early days of Trump's term, they

481
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 2: certainly could have done it. You know, I think it's

482
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 2: just easier to put on an executive order. Then he

483
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 2: doesn't have to negotiate.

484
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 3: He can just be a king.

485
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 2: He can just issue his proclamations and then you know,

486
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 2: kick it to the courts and make the courts stop him.

487
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 2: And so I think he just prefers that to the

488
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 2: messiness of having to get in the weeds or god forbid,

489
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 2: work with some Democrats on something that he would want

490
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 2: to get done.

491
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 8: And they don't want to take votes. I mean, Congress

492
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 8: doesn't want to take votes.

493
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 5: They don't want to be held accountable when it's easier

494
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 5: to go through the president, So it just better.

495
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 2: It's mutually reinforcing. They don't have to take any tough

496
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 2: votes and he can just do whatever he wants. Right.

497
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 8: Trade war, trade wars, actual wars, all of that.

498
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 5: I mean, we're just completely like Biden kept the Trump

499
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 5: tariffs and that didn't go through Congress. The same thing

500
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 5: with like we've had an AMF for however long that

501
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 5: bipartisan presidents have used three or whatever. Yeah, mutually, it

502
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 5: is mutually reinforcing. Yeah, huge news yesterday. That could turn

503
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 5: out to be ultimately kind of nothing or it could

504
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 5: turn out to be I guess.

505
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 8: Sort of significant. And part of that depends on Congress.

506
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 9: Crystal.

507
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, as we were saying, so we can put.

508
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 8: The first element on the screen.

509
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 5: This is Donald Trump on Sunday afternoon talking about prescription

510
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 5: drug prices, untrue, social and I'm going to read this.

511
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 5: For many years, the world has wondered why prescription drugs

512
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 5: and pharmaceuticals in the US were so much higher in

513
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 5: price than they were in any other nation, sometimes being

514
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 5: five to ten times more expensive than the same drug

515
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 5: manufactured in the exact same laboratory or plant by the

516
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:52,959
Speaker 5: same company.

517
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 8: Question Mark, question mark, question mark.

518
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 5: After a few lines of all caps there, If you

519
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 5: didn't get it from my voice, I'll just let you

520
00:24:59,280 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 5: know that's what it is. Now.

521
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 8: How we're going to lowercase.

522
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,360
Speaker 5: It was always difficult to explain, and very embarrassing because

523
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 5: in fact there was no correct or rightful answer.

524
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 8: Rightful.

525
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 5: Interesting, the pharmaceutical drug companies would say for years that

526
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 5: it was research and development costs, and that all of

527
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 5: these costs were and would be for no reason whatsoever

528
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 5: borne by the quote suckers of America alone, campaign contributions

529
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 5: can do wonders.

530
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 8: But not with me, he says, and not with the

531
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 8: Republican Party. Interesting.

532
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 5: On the same day Crystal as the Cutter plane announcement. Yeah,

533
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 5: so we could go to the next sled. Yeah, so,

534
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 5: he says. Therefore, I'm pleased to announce that tomorrow morning.

535
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 5: So today in the White House at nine am, I

536
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 5: will be signing one of the most consequential executive orders

537
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 5: in our country's history. Prescription drug and pharmaceutical prices will

538
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 5: be reduced almost immediately by thirty to eighty percent.

539
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 8: They will rise throughout the world.

540
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 5: In order to equalize and for the first time in

541
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 5: many years, bring fairness to America. I will be instituting

542
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 5: a most Favored Nations policy, whereby the US will pay

543
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 5: the same price as the nation that pays the lowest

544
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 5: price anywhere in the world. Our country will finally be

545
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 5: treated fairly, and citizens of healthcare costs will be reduced

546
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 5: by numbers never even thought of before. So Chrystal, this

547
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 5: is a fairly significant announcement. I think, probably more significant

548
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 5: if a if momentum builds in Congress to actually codify this.

549
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 5: So Roe tweeted actually late last night eleven thirty eight pm.

550
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 5: I'm willing to introduce the Trump EO exactly as written

551
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 5: as legislation to be bipartisan and get something done for

552
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 5: the American people. Any Republicans willing to co sponsor, Let's

553
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 5: then get Speaker Johnson to call a vote on it.

554
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 5: So Congressman Conna, obviously a Democrat in the House of Representatives,

555
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 5: now calling on Republicans to take that EO text and

556
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 5: pass it through Congress, pass it through the Senate, and

557
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 5: make it law because an EO can get again, as

558
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 5: Roe says, challenged by big Pharma. So that I think

559
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 5: the likelihood of this actually becoming law probably depends on

560
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 5: whether Republicans are willing to get this through Congress, and

561
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 5: that seems highly unlikely, especially the Senate.

562
00:26:58,520 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 8: Yeah.

563
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 2: Well, I mean my top line reaction is that this

564
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 2: is probably fake, an attempt to generate positive headlines to

565
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 2: distract from the fact that the big beautiful bill entails

566
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 2: giving a giant tax cut to the rich paid for by,

567
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 2: you know, cuts to.

568
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 3: Healthcare for poor people. So that's my big day. And

569
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 3: the reason I say that, I would love to be

570
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 3: proved wrong. By the way. The reason I say that.

571
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 2: Is because he did almost six exact same executive order

572
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 2: in his first term and it got immediately blocked by

573
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 2: multiple courts. So maybe something will be different, maybe there's

574
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 2: a different legal strategy. I it's nine oh nine now

575
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 2: as we're as we're recording this. I don't know if

576
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 2: he's released it yet, but we haven't seen all the details.

577
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 2: But the way he describes it in this Truth Social

578
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 2: is pretty much identical to the executive order in the

579
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 2: first Trump administration, which immediately got blocked isstruck down. We

580
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 2: also know that he had been talking to the Republicans

581
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 2: about including something like this in the reconciliation bill and

582
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 2: they all balked at it. So you know, the Republicans

583
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 2: are not willing to go along with it, and he

584
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 2: hasn't shown in the past that he was actually like

585
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 2: committed to following through in order to get something accomplished.

586
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is, look, if you're

587
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 2: going to if you are going to do something like this,

588
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 2: it really can't be done through executive It does have

589
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 2: to go through Congress. So if he wants to accomplish this,

590
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 2: he would take row up on his offer here. He

591
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,479
Speaker 2: would you know, steamroll Republicans and make this as much

592
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 2: of a priority as it would take, it being as

593
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 2: much of a priority as something like his immigration policy is.

594
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 3: And I see no signs of that.

595
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: So until improven otherwise, I have to think that this

596
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 2: is an attempt to grab headlines and distract from many

597
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 2: of the very indefensible and unpopular things that are happening

598
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 2: with this reconciliation villain, with his administration in general.

599
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 5: This sparked another billionaire on billionaire war, by the way

600
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 5: civil war in the billionaire class, because it seems as

601
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 5: though Bill Ackman popularized this idea in Trump circles.

602
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 8: He was kind of bragging about that it was.

603
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 5: He posted an idea that looks a lot like this

604
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 5: on March seventh of twenty twenty four, kind of took

605
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 5: a victory lap. Yesterday, Then Mark Cuban jumped on and

606
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 5: said the manufacturers aren't the big problem, Bill. They could

607
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 5: sell brand meds for far, far less and in some

608
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 5: cases lower than other countries today. If you take the

609
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 5: big PBMs, so pharmacy benefit managers out of the middle,

610
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 5: and you are proud of the problem, Bill, I'll bet

611
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 5: you've signed a pharmacy benefits deal with a big PBM tomorrow.

612
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 5: Call them and ask for a list of your claims

613
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 5: and the net drug price paid for each. Ask them

614
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 5: for a net price list after rebates that you can verify.

615
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 5: Let me know how long they laugh at you. He

616
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 5: goes on to say the issues that CEOs have no

617
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 5: clue about their pharmacy or health care benefits, so they

618
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 5: work with the PBMs that cause this mess, assuming their

619
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 5: consultants are doing the right thing by them. He said,

620
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,479
Speaker 5: this EO can have a huge impact, but it has

621
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 5: to be built around transparency and removing the middleman. So

622
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 5: the PBMs are obviously a part of this problem. Actually,

623
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 5: there's there's going to be some conservative backlash this. We've

624
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 5: seen that before too, because it's price fixing and they're

625
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 5: in the park pocket of big pharma. There will be

626
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 5: some completely ideological and sincere conservative disagreement with this because

627
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 5: they see it as price fixing, and we don't need

628
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 5: to open up that can of worms necessarily.

629
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 8: But whether this.

630
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 5: Actually gets through Congress, that's the problem is Republicans partially

631
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 5: are in the pocket of big pharma like many Democrats,

632
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 5: and then partially also are have this this ideological aversion

633
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 5: to anything that looks like price fixing. So good luck

634
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 5: with that, Mike Johnson and Roe sadly.

635
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and I mean on the merits, like, it

636
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 2: is absolutely unjustifiable that Americans pay so much more for

637
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 2: prescription drugs than discussing anywhere around the world. Trump is

638
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 2: right that we are expected to put the bill for

639
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: their overhead and their quote unquote research and development. Now,

640
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 2: the other thing that this is wildly at odds with

641
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 2: the rest of the Trump administration plan is every single

642
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 2: new drug molecule has been developed over the past several

643
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 2: decades has been funded by public research.

644
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 3: It has not come out of industry, come out.

645
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 2: Of public research dollars, the very dollars that are being

646
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 2: completely slashed and gutted by the Trump administration currently. So

647
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 2: the actual innovation that has pushed for an advanced science

648
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 2: that is under assault and that would inherently actually push

649
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 2: more into the into private industry, and you know, we

650
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 2: would have to rely more on private industry. And a

651
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 2: lot of the quote unquote R and D that private

652
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: industry does is more about trying to extend their patents,

653
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 2: you know, reformulate something they already know works and is

654
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 2: popular in order to extend their patent life. That is

655
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 2: what a lot of their research and development funds ultimately

656
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 2: go into. And yes, the American taxpayer and the you know,

657
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 2: American consumer have been forced to front that research and

658
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 2: development through these extraordinarily high prescription drug prices. You know,

659
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 2: the place where it's most egregious is with Medicare where

660
00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 2: we're banned, have been banned from negotiating negotiating with drug

661
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: makers to lower drug prices. That's something the Biden administration

662
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 2: took some tepid steps in the direction of fixing. I

663
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 2: believe this is part of the Inflation Reduction Act where

664
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 2: they had a list it wasn't all drugs, but a

665
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 2: list of certain top drugs that now Medicare is going

666
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 2: to negotiate on, and that is you know, a small

667
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 2: but quite significant win. Those are the sorts of things

668
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 2: that you would need to do to actually get this

669
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 2: under control, so we'll see where things where it goes

670
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 2: from here. But you know, color me skeptical until I

671
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 2: still see some actual, you know, actual commitment to this

672
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 2: and action beyond what again he did in the first

673
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,719
Speaker 2: Trump administration with literally zero effect.

674
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 5: Fair enough, should we move on to Kanye. I know

675
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 5: you're tramping at the bit to get to the segment.

676
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, Kanye of Us is out with a new album.

677
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 2: I believe the album title is cuck Leave is the

678
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 2: name of the album title, and one track in particular

679
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 2: has garnered quite a lot of attention because it is

680
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 2: the whole chorus of the track is basically just Hyle Hitler.

681
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 8: It's n word, Kamayle Hitler.

682
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 3: Yes, that is uh, that is the course of the track.

683
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 2: Now, Spotify and Apple and a bunch of other you know,

684
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 2: a bunch of other outlets have banned distribution of it.

685
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 2: They've really tried to block it, but it hasn't matter

686
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 2: because it's gotten millions and millions of views on Twitter

687
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 2: and other places where it's been allowed to go. So

688
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 2: we have a little bit of a censored version of

689
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 2: the video just so you can get a taste of

690
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 2: what this is all about.

691
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 3: Let's go ahead and take a listen.

692
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 8: I don't understanding things I say.

693
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 5: I don't understanding things I say.

694
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 2: Some of the other lyrics Emily, according to Grock are man,

695
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 2: these people took my kids from me, then they closed

696
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 2: my bank account. I got so much anger in me,

697
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 2: got no way to take it out. Think I'm stuck

698
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 2: in the matrix where the fs my nitrous of referring

699
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 2: to nitrous oxide. Yes, I am a cook. I like

700
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 2: when people f on my b word the shit that

701
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 2: I'm posting on Twitter. They're telling me, hey, don't say that.

702
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 2: How Edwards can see me in public. I'm driving an

703
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:23,280
Speaker 2: off road maybox, so get some you know, classic wealth

704
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,919
Speaker 2: poorn in there as well. With all the money and fame,

705
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 2: I still can't get my kids back. With all the

706
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 2: money and fame, I still don't get to see my children.

707
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 2: So I became a Nazi. Yeah, bitch, I'm the villain.

708
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 2: That is some of the sampling of kin the lyrics

709
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 2: of someone who's clearly like, I mean, I don't know

710
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 2: what to say. He's clearly in the midst of a

711
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 2: mental break, has been for a while surrounded with people

712
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 2: who are not going to intervene and you know, in

713
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 2: a way that is incredibly destructive to himself obviously, his

714
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:58,479
Speaker 2: his family, his kids, his relationships. Apparently the only people

715
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 2: who surrounded with are you know, yes, men who just

716
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 2: will will hype him up and tell him everything he

717
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 2: does is great and glorious and brilliant and with you know,

718
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 2: damaging impacts on society as well.

719
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 5: I think you have to say, can you read the

720
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 5: last lyric by the way, those last two lines.

721
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 2: With all the money and fame, I still don't get

722
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 2: to see my children. So I became a Nazi? Yeah,

723
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 2: bitch on the villain.

724
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 8: Yeah, this is like profoundly sad. Yeah.

725
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 5: The point of the song, so like there's been this

726
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 5: understandable reaction to the song is though it's like Kanye

727
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 5: West embracing, which he's done in other formats, by the way,

728
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 5: white supremacy and like.

729
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 3: Being an overt Nazi, being an overt celebrating Hitler.

730
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 5: Yes, right, what he's saying in this particular song is

731
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 5: that and this is very Kanye West and just an

732
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 5: absolute torture genius and extremely profoundly sad. He's saying that

733
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 5: he's been pushed into this basically because he's so desperate.

734
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 5: This is a cry for help that he is nobody

735
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 5: is helping him, basically, and so he is now turning

736
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 5: to the most taboos object in this country and in

737
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 5: the broader West, just to just to get attention from

738
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 5: his family and just to get help from his family.

739
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,720
Speaker 5: And it's like one of the saddest things to witness.

740
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 5: And John Legend has said that he's like, this is

741
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 5: they used to be friends, and he's like, this is

742
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 5: incredibly sad to watch.

743
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 8: I think we all feel it the same way. It's

744
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 8: incredibly sad to watch.

745
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 5: And the song is interesting to me because it's his

746
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 5: turn into extreme extreme right wing like fascist, race science,

747
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 5: disgusting nazi bullshit.

748
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 8: I think I have no idea what he believes.

749
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 5: I don't think he has any idea what he believes

750
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 5: because he's so he's in the throes of like this,

751
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 5: this horrible mental illness. It's crazy that it also sounds

752
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 5: like subconsciously at the very least, he's starting to grapple

753
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 5: with the fact that this is a cry for help,

754
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 5: and that is just is incredibly sad.

755
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,399
Speaker 2: The song concludes with the sample from a nineteen thirty

756
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 2: six Adolf Hitler speech, If you consider the work I'm

757
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 2: doing to be right. If you think I have been diligent,

758
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 2: that I have worked, that I've advocated for you this year,

759
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 2: that I've spent my time honestly in the service of

760
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:15,959
Speaker 2: my people, then cast your vote. If so, then stand

761
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 2: up for me like I have stood up for you.

762
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 2: So including a you know, well sampling from Hitler himself

763
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 2: into the song. I mean, I don't know, I struggle

764
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 2: to have as much empathy as you do at this point, Emily,

765
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 2: because it's not like there haven't been people who have

766
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 2: tried to get him to He obviously needs medication, yeah,

767
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 2: like he needs to be probably institutional and not nitrous.

768
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 9: Yeah.

769
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 2: And you know, there's it's very it's a very it's

770
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 2: a very difficult situation. But even in the throes of

771
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 2: mental illness, there is still some level of agency. I mean,

772
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,879
Speaker 2: if you're able to pen a song that people would

773
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,959
Speaker 2: you know, part as some sort of cry for help,

774
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 2: then there's obviously some level of agency there. So you know,

775
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 2: get yourself on a trajectory where people who actually care

776
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 2: about you, where you listen to them, where you stop

777
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 2: damaging them, and that's where you know it's I saw

778
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 2: I think it was Ken Klippenstein who said something to

779
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 2: that is another really difficult aspect of this story, which

780
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 2: is there are, understand for very good reasons, you know,

781
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of guardrails in place against

782
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 2: people being institutionalized against their will. Yeah, right, and I

783
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 2: totally get that, right, and we understand where that comes from, and.

784
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 3: We really respect it.

785
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 2: But also you look at what he's doing to himself,

786
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 2: let alone to his kids who now don't have the

787
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 2: benefit of a relationship with their dad, who you know,

788
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 2: I'm sure, I mean, obviously that's a really important thing

789
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 2: for any kid in the estrangement from his family. And then,

790
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 2: you know, even as you and others can can parse

791
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 2: since how this is a cry for help or whatever,

792
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 2: we also have to acknowledge that the way it's being

793
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 2: landing in society is just as a celebration of Hitler totally,

794
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 2: and because he has so much fame and power in

795
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 2: Cachet and the torture Genius blah blah blah. That is

796
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 2: that furtherre's a lot of extremely ugly, racist, horrific ideologies

797
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 2: where you know, it's just like, oh, this is now,

798
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 2: this is now on the table. I think it's also

799
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 2: a demonstration of the of the doom loop spiral that

800
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 2: society is in as well, where there's rewards just for

801
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 2: saying the most provocative thing you possibly can. And I

802
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 2: think that's part of what's going on here very intentionally

803
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 2: with Kanye as well, is like this is the ultimate

804
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 2: third rail. There is nothing more horrific that people can

805
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 2: imagine than the intentional extermination of millions of people just

806
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 2: for who they are, Jewish people, just for who they are.

807
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 2: And so for you to overtly embrace that, then you're

808
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 2: going to instantly win the race in terms of who

809
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 2: can be the most outrageous and the most provocative. And

810
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 2: I think he understands that too. So it is also

811
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 2: a reflection not just of you know him in throes

812
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 2: of mental illness, but is also a reflection of the

813
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 2: things that are rewarded in our society.

814
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 5: Right and increasingly, No, I think that's your I mean,

815
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 5: he absolutely has agency on the point that you just

816
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,919
Speaker 5: made let's roll E three on the screen, because that's

817
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 5: how this is what we have video basically of how

818
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 5: this is landing with some people who I think you

819
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 5: know there, Crystal. This is one of many examples of

820
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 5: music that geez, people are doing like just full listening

821
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 5: to the song, doing just full Nazi salutes. If you're

822
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 5: if you're listening to this and not watching that was

823
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 5: a video.

824
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 3: Of there's a Roman salute. Simily they're throwing their heart

825
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 3: out to Kanye West.

826
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 5: You know, is this a throwback to another debate that

827
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 5: we add But yeah, definitely not Roman salutes in this case,

828
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 5: one hundred percent not Roman salutes in this case because.

829
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 8: They are literally saying Hile Hitler, singing Hail Hitler. I

830
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 8: imagine they're dropping the N word in there as well.

831
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's it's, which is also something that's being

832
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 2: apparently celebrated on the right currently, at least as aimed

833
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 2: at at five year old autistic children.

834
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 5: Well, and this is to your point that, yes, Kanye

835
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,359
Speaker 5: West absolutely has agency, and the people around him who

836
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 5: are indulging this have agency as well. And the reason

837
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 5: that he is able to make these music videos and

838
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 5: produce this music is because there are people around him

839
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 5: who think that they can continue profiting off of this

840
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 5: extremely sad situation, both monetarily and by you know, the

841
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 5: actual like proximity to.

842
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 8: Fame that they have with Kanye.

843
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 3: Well, in his spell in a way.

844
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, who believe that he really is the

845
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 2: victim of this elaborate conspiracy and he really is this

846
00:41:55,440 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 2: you know, this world historic genius and it's eccentricity not

847
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 2: mental illness. You know, I don't know anything about him person,

848
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 2: I've never been around him or whatever, but you know,

849
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 2: he may be one of these people who's able to

850
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 2: create this sort of like reality distortion field around him,

851
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 2: where you couple that the you know, those sort of

852
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 2: like powers of persuasion into distort reality with the personal

853
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 2: self interest of wanting to be close to someone who

854
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 2: is rich and famous, and you end up with a

855
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 2: crew of enablers who are you know, in it for

856
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,320
Speaker 2: what they can get out of effectively exploiting a person

857
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 2: who is deeply mentally ill in a way that is

858
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 2: very damaging to him himself, his family and the culture.

859
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 8: Yeah, and the culture. Yeah, I think that's an important point.

860
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 5: Though.

861
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 8: The last time I'll say is I mean, the.

862
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 5: Song is obviously awful, it's out there now, and I

863
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 5: can't dismiss that it's also such a horrible insight into

864
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 5: the mind of Kanye West, which is that in this

865
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 5: sense in the song, there's this recognition and you mentioned this.

866
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,240
Speaker 5: This is this recognition that this is the ultimate taboo

867
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 5: and that this is an awful or that this is

868
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 5: an extreme place to find yourself. That's the like he's

869
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 5: acknowledging that and clearly conscious of it in the song.

870
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 5: And I mean, how sad is it that in some

871
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 5: sense he recognizes other people want to hear this for

872
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,399
Speaker 5: reasons that are different from his own in the song,

873
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 5: which is I can't get my kids, so now I'm

874
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 5: going full Nazi. There are other people out there who

875
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 5: are just like they just care about the full Nazi part. Yeah,

876
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 5: And that's just like, I mean again, like he does

877
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,359
Speaker 5: have agency. I don't want to dismiss that at all,

878
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 5: but it's just so sad that there's room right now

879
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 5: for that to be powerful, for that to be something

880
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:58,399
Speaker 5: that gets a lot of attention views that people see

881
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 5: something so cathartic in gravitating towards like overt racism and

882
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 5: Holocaust denial and whatever else they're going towards. I mean,

883
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,800
Speaker 5: maybe not Holocaust denial, Holocaust celebration. And it depends on

884
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,760
Speaker 5: who you're talking to in those like fringe fringe awful circles,

885
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:20,879
Speaker 5: whether they're outright denihialists or celebrationists. But yeah, it's it's

886
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 5: it's in the song. It's like baked into his sort

887
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 5: of admission here that he's going full Nazi.

888
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 8: Is this idea that other people are they want that

889
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 8: and he can sort of get some type of attention

890
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 8: for doing it.

891
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:37,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that's true.

892
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:39,919
Speaker 2: But it's like, listen, if you want to see your kids,

893
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 2: take your mads and get well, yeah, you're gonna have

894
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 2: a much better chance at seeing your kids. And if

895
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 2: they you know, if you have the chance to see them,

896
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 2: about them having an actual.

897
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 3: Like healthy relationship with you as well.

898
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 8: Horrible.

899
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, guys.

900
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 2: I was able yesterday to speak with the mayor of Newark,

901
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 2: who also, by the ways, running for governor of New Jersey.

902
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 2: He's in a pretty packed Democratic primary against some leading

903
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 2: lights of the Democratic Party like Josh Gottheimer.

904
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 3: That's one example. In any case, I do get in

905
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:09,439
Speaker 3: a question to him.

906
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 2: At the very end about that race for New Jersey

907
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 2: governor governor. He was arrested on Friday. He and three

908
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 2: Democratic members of Congress had gone to this ice facility.

909
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 2: Apparently the Democratic members there arrived there first. There is

910
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 2: a law in place that was passed during or after

911
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 2: the first Trump administration to permit any member of Congress

912
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:32,720
Speaker 2: going to inspect a federal facility. So they were availing

913
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 2: themselves over that opportunity in the law to conduct to

914
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 2: this inspection and oversight. He joined them, he's told to leave,

915
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 2: he does leave, and then he's arrested for alleged trespassing.

916
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 2: He denies that he did anything wrong or broke the

917
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 2: law in any way. In the context of him being arrested,

918
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 2: I'll show some of the video in this segment. There

919
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,720
Speaker 2: was a we'll just call it a very chaotic scene

920
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 2: that plays out.

921
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 6: Now.

922
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 2: The Trump administration is threatening also those Democratic members of

923
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 2: Congress with arrest as well. So in any case, I

924
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 2: had a chance to record this interview. The mayor was

925
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:08,919
Speaker 2: on his way to I think a Mother's Day event

926
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 2: or something of that nature, but got some good insights

927
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 2: on his side of the story, at least of what unfolded.

928
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and take a listen to that. Mayor

929
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 2: Ross Baraka of Newark, New Jersey, was arrested by mass

930
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 2: federal agents on Friday after attempting to accompany three members

931
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,839
Speaker 2: of Congress. Democratic members on an inspection of an ice

932
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 2: facility that it opened over his objections and which he

933
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 2: says is operating illegally in his city. I'm going to

934
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 2: let the mayor lay out the timeline of exactly how

935
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 2: these events unfolded, what his goals were for this action

936
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 2: on this day, what occurred, what led to his arrest.

937
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 2: But I can show you right now a quite chaotic

938
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 2: scene that unfolded outside of this ice facility as they

939
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 2: did attempt and eventually successfully did arrest mayor of Newark

940
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 2: ross Baraka. He was released several hours early later, and

941
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 2: he was charged with trespassing.

942
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 3: Uh.

943
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 2: The mayor says that these charges are false, that he

944
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 2: did nothing wrong. Here take a look. So the mayor

945
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 2: is there at the center in the red is representative

946
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 2: of Lamonica mckiv. Congresswoman Bonnie Watson Coleman is also there

947
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 2: in the midst eighty eight year old woman in the

948
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 2: center of this action. So the Trump administration claimed that

949
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:01,800
Speaker 2: these members attempted to storm the ice facility. This is

950
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 2: not backed up by the video evidence and the eyewitness

951
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 2: accounts on the scene. They have also now said that

952
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 2: they are looking at potential charges against the members of

953
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:15,399
Speaker 2: Congress who were there to perform that oversight on that day,

954
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,280
Speaker 2: So in order to get a breakdown of everything that unfolded,

955
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 2: the plans for the day, what the timeline was, the

956
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:28,320
Speaker 2: differences between what actually happened and what the administration is

957
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 2: claiming unfolded. Is the mayor of Newark, New Jersey, and

958
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 2: New Jersey golubminatorial candidate Ross Braka. I want to start

959
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 2: off by getting your reaction to Trisia McLaughlin. She is

960
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 2: the Trump Administration's Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs at DHS

961
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 2: and her characterization of the events that unfolded leading up

962
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 2: to your arrest. Let's go ahead and take a listen

963
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 2: to that.

964
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 5: Thanks Victor for having me.

965
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 10: I'm glad I can be here to actually give viewers

966
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,280
Speaker 10: the facts. What happened as that these members of Congress,

967
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,720
Speaker 10: including the mayor as well, and a mob of protesters

968
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,879
Speaker 10: as there was a bus full of detainees going through

969
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 10: the gate, they stormed the gate and actually entered the

970
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 10: first security checkpoint. This put law enforcement at risk, and

971
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 10: this actually put the detainees as well at risk. If

972
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 10: any official, including these members of Congress, want to enter

973
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 10: the facility and take a tour DHS is more than accommodating.

974
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 10: But just because you're a member of Congress does not

975
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 10: mean you can break the law, trespass, put law enforcement

976
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 10: at risk, and storm the detention facility. I haven't yet

977
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 10: to hear anyone on this network actually talk about who

978
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,800
Speaker 10: is in this detention facility. There are members of MS thirteen,

979
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 10: known terrorists, murderers, child rapists, there are some of the

980
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 10: worst of the worst in.

981
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 8: This detention facility.

982
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 10: And I'm still very confused why these Democrats are so

983
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 10: held then on getting these heinous actors out of this

984
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 10: facility when we have the proper permitting. And actually in

985
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 10: that press conference, those members of Congress actually noted the

986
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 10: great conditions of this facility that are ice enforcement officers

987
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 10: so bravely operate.

988
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 2: So, Mayor what is your response to her allegation there

989
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 2: that you and these members of Congress stormed the facility.

990
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 11: Either she's misinformed because she wasn't there, or she just

991
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 11: flat out lying. I mean, it's insane how these people

992
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 11: behave like they lie over and over again, and they

993
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 11: figured if they lie enough people to believe it, it's

994
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 11: the truth. The reality is nobody stormed the gate when

995
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 11: I got there. The members of Congress who are already inside,

996
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 11: they were in a booth. They didn't go all the

997
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 11: way in, but they were in a booth. Uh so

998
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 11: they were They were there waiting over an hour for

999
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 11: Homeland Security officials to come to give them a scheduled

1000
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 11: visit that they had through the building. So number people

1001
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 11: have to storm. They were invited there right, So that

1002
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 11: that right there is a flat out line. You know,

1003
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 11: all of this stuff about being assault a salting people,

1004
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 11: all of it is wrong. I mean, either she's misinformed

1005
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 11: or she's just lying.

1006
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:05,879
Speaker 2: So you arrived, the members of Congress are already there

1007
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 2: inside the gates, and then what happens from.

1008
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:10,439
Speaker 9: There, they're already in a booth.

1009
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 11: I don't even see them because they're in the building

1010
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 11: in a waiting area, waiting to get the tour.

1011
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 9: There are people outside who are there every day.

1012
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 11: You know, the protesters outside who are there every single day,

1013
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 11: by the way, they're there today as well. So I

1014
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 11: mean outside of the Congress, people, outside of media, protesters there,

1015
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 11: they're going to be there and they have a right

1016
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 11: to be there, right outside of the gate. I arrived

1017
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 11: there waiting for the press conference that are supposed to

1018
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:39,759
Speaker 11: happen after that. She alluded to, there's a scheduled press

1019
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 11: conference they're supposed to happen at one point thirty outside

1020
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 11: of that gate. But obviously it didn't happen at that

1021
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 11: time because these people never arrived when they were supposed to.

1022
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 2: They charge you, obviously with trespassing, which I know you dispute.

1023
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 2: So can you lay out for us you know what

1024
00:51:56,680 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 2: happened in terms of your entry and you know an

1025
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 2: exit from the facility.

1026
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 9: I didn't break any law.

1027
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 11: I was first of all, if I'm on the property,

1028
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 11: somebody let me in the property or invited me in

1029
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 11: the property. That that's what happened. I walked in there.

1030
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 11: I didn't kick, push, shove, run. I stat in there

1031
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 11: with ICE agents for over an hour. ICE agents were

1032
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 11: in there with me for over an hour. They didn't

1033
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 11: do anything for me. They didn't say anything. Then asked

1034
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:23,360
Speaker 11: me to go.

1035
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 9: I just sat there.

1036
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 11: It wasn't until the special agent in charge showed us

1037
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 11: we probably would give it. Was given orders to approach me,

1038
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 11: and that's what he did. He approached me. The congress

1039
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 11: people responded trying to stop him from harassing me. I

1040
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 11: left the gate. You know, told me to get out.

1041
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 11: I left, I left, it went out. They came outside

1042
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 11: of the gate and proceeded to try to arrest me

1043
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 11: outside of the gate after I already left the property.

1044
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 11: The Congress people and uh, you know people that were

1045
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 11: standing by got engaged in it because I mean they

1046
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 11: were being very very very aggressive, you know.

1047
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 9: So obviously if you come outside of the gate, that's

1048
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 9: what's going to happen. And that's what they did.

1049
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 11: They took me and these are the ones that dragged

1050
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 11: me back onto the property and cuffs.

1051
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 9: No, they cuffs me and dragged me back into the

1052
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 9: property and arrested me for a trespassing So.

1053
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 2: I'm sure you know, Mayor that the administration is now

1054
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 2: threatening those members of Congress who were there with you

1055
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:30,360
Speaker 2: with arrest as well, and they are sharing some body

1056
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:35,280
Speaker 2: camera footage that they claim shows some of these members

1057
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 2: of Congress in their view, assaulting.

1058
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 9: His offers.

1059
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 3: Masses were there. Let me just go ahead and show

1060
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 3: you a little bit of that.

1061
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 2: So it's clearly it's extremely chaotic that's represented of mackivor

1062
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 2: and the Red Relieve. Can you just tell us what

1063
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 2: we're looking at there and what from your perspective, was.

1064
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 11: Them assaulting me, grabbing me, trying to lock me up

1065
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 11: them they were holding on to me.

1066
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 9: Uh, so they were pushing them off of me. Uh

1067
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:22,839
Speaker 9: if you see the whole video.

1068
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 11: There's several videos out there with all kinds of viewpoints.

1069
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 11: Several people were thrown to the ground, Several several bystanders

1070
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 11: were thrown to the ground by agents. They were pushed,

1071
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 11: they were shoved. If you see people being pushed, it

1072
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 11: is them pushing the Congress people. And you can hear

1073
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 11: people in the background saying, don't touch them, keep your

1074
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 11: hands off of them. You're not supposed to touch them.

1075
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 11: They're members of Congress, mayor.

1076
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:47,800
Speaker 2: One thing that I think has disturbed a lot of

1077
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:51,320
Speaker 2: people is the use of masks by these federal agents

1078
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 2: in this situation and many others that we've seen with

1079
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:57,759
Speaker 2: ICE arresting immigrants across the country. What do you what

1080
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:00,320
Speaker 2: do you make of the significance of this wide spread

1081
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 2: use of masking to obscure the face of these federal agents.

1082
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:06,399
Speaker 11: That's pretty strange, and it makes it feels like they're

1083
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 11: on a like real military uh, you know, special obsmission.

1084
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 9: I don't know what's happening there.

1085
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 11: The excuse is that ICE agents are under attack, and uh,

1086
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 11: you know, they have to hide their identity because they're

1087
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 11: under attack. I mean, our police officers in Newark can't

1088
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 11: go to places like this, like they have to always

1089
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 11: be visible. The body camera footage has to always be on.

1090
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 11: They have to be visible, and they face harrowing and

1091
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 11: difficult and dangerous situations.

1092
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 9: All the time.

1093
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:39,719
Speaker 4: Right.

1094
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 11: You know, I don't understand why this is happening, but

1095
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 11: I mean the reality is their behavior and the things

1096
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 11: that they're doing to people, in my mind is extra

1097
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 11: legal and beyond the constitution.

1098
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 3: What is your objection to this ICE facility in Newark?

1099
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 11: Our issue was with GEO. It's not even with ICE.

1100
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 11: It's not an ICE facility. First of all, it's GEOS

1101
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 11: facility that they changed in the process of trying to

1102
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 11: change because a contract that just got from ICE to

1103
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 11: Howse some detainees, same kind of contract they gave to

1104
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 11: El Salvador.

1105
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 9: They've given to these people here locally sixty three.

1106
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 11: Million dollars over a billion dollars over a period of

1107
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 11: time to house detainees. Our contention is that they need

1108
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:34,399
Speaker 11: a certificate of occupancy. They argue that they have one

1109
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 11: They have one from twenty years ago, which we think

1110
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 11: is outdated and it needs to be updated, updated to

1111
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 11: explain what the use of the property is. Now inspectors

1112
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 11: have to go in the building and inspect everything from

1113
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 11: fire code inspections to health inspections to electrical inspections.

1114
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,040
Speaker 9: Now they're playing with that and not allowing people in.

1115
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:54,760
Speaker 9: We went up there, We go there regularly.

1116
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:56,719
Speaker 11: We're in court about this, and they have a right

1117
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 11: to dispute what we're saying if they don't think they

1118
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 11: need a stificant occupies if we think they do. In America,

1119
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 11: these things are settled in courts of law, and that's

1120
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:08,439
Speaker 11: where we're at. We're in a dispute with the court.

1121
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:12,280
Speaker 11: Ice doesn't settle that. The President doesn't settle that Homeland security,

1122
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 11: nor ICE settles that judges settle these things. These are

1123
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 11: disputes that are settled by judges, not by authoritarianism. And

1124
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 11: so while we're going through this, they make a decision

1125
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 11: to go forward anyway to do what they want to

1126
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 11: do despite our effort to get this redress in court,

1127
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 11: which we believe is beyond the scope of their capacity,

1128
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 11: and they don't have the right to do this. So

1129
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 11: we're pushing back against this, and it's that's a terrible precedent.

1130
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 11: We allow them to do this. Anybody could come in

1131
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 11: here and set up whatever the heck they want and

1132
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 11: say they don't need to listen to the city's laws.

1133
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 11: We allow these people to do it. So we're going

1134
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 11: back and forth with them about this. ICE has interceded

1135
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 11: and have decided to do what they're doing today.

1136
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 2: Mayor, I'm sure you know that for years, activists have

1137
00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 2: contended that ICE is a lawless roguauate and sy that

1138
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 2: should be abolished.

1139
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:02,920
Speaker 3: Do you agree with that?

1140
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 11: Well, I think that there is some use for homeland security. Obviously,

1141
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 11: there is use for us to have law enforcement. But

1142
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 11: at the end of the day, I think what they're

1143
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 11: being weaponized to do is wrong. I think what the

1144
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 11: President has weaponized these agencies to do, it is far

1145
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 11: beyond their scope.

1146
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 9: Right now.

1147
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 11: They weaponized to attack anybody that speaks out against the

1148
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 11: president of the United States, anybody that's against the policies

1149
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 11: of the United States, whether they're documented or not, whether

1150
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 11: they have a student VIZA, you know, whether they have

1151
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 11: a green card or whether they're undocumented. And frankly, they're

1152
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 11: not just this lie about the places everybody's every place

1153
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 11: is filled with like child rapists and murderers.

1154
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 9: And gang members. It's just a flat out lie.

1155
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:53,560
Speaker 11: These people are attacking everybody, right, everybody in America that's

1156
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 11: going through the process to become documented is not documented.

1157
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 9: Yet and sometimes it takes seven, eight, nine years. So

1158
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 9: in that process, any of.

1159
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 11: These people are eligible to be deported, they will come

1160
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 11: and grab these people and deport them, which we think

1161
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 11: is unfair, unconstitutional, lacking of due process, you know, and.

1162
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 9: You know, should we pushed back against.

1163
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 11: And people all over the country are and so my

1164
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 11: position against Ice, my contention was ICE, and and really

1165
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 11: my contention with the you know, with the Trump immigration

1166
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 11: policy is different than my contention with GO. Those are

1167
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 11: two different issues, right, and we have the right to

1168
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:34,680
Speaker 11: fight those issues on different fronts.

1169
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:37,360
Speaker 2: Last question I have for you, Mayor, I know you're

1170
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 2: you're busy, and I appreciate you taking the time today,

1171
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 2: is you're running for governor and you have a pretty

1172
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 2: crowded Democratic primary field that you're up against. You know,

1173
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:50,959
Speaker 2: do you think that you would interface with the Trump

1174
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 2: administration as governor of New Jersey in a different way

1175
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 2: than your primary opponents would do you think that that's

1176
00:59:57,080 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 2: an aspect that sets you apart.

1177
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 11: Clearly. You know, everybody is saying that they are gonna

1178
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 11: do are gonna fight Donald Trump. That's the buzzword of

1179
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 11: today because he's become so rogue. I mean, violating the Constitution,

1180
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:14,680
Speaker 11: undermining people's democratic rights, taking away medicaid, you know, attacking

1181
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 11: social security, veterans benefits, attacking diversity, equity inclusion.

1182
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 9: I mean, it's just all out attack on working people.

1183
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 9: You know.

1184
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 11: Obviously, Uh, we're gonna have to defend ourselves in New Jersey,

1185
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 11: and I'm gonna do that. We're gonna have to unite

1186
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 11: with other states that are pushing back to do that, and.

1187
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 9: We're gonna do that, clearly.

1188
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 11: But we're also trying to build a democracy in New Jersey,

1189
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 11: one that you know, all Americans can be proud of

1190
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 11: and and and obviously, uh, we we think that if

1191
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 11: if the President of the United States supports that, then fine,

1192
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 11: If he doesn't, doesn't our ideas and a thing that

1193
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 11: we create will be opposed to that. I mean, we're

1194
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 11: not building a New Jersey that's centered around Donald Trump

1195
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 11: or what he's for and what he's against.

1196
01:00:57,400 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 9: Building a New Jersey.

1197
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 11: That's democratic, and that's a you know, supportive and available

1198
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:04,840
Speaker 11: of what we believe in in this state and create

1199
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 11: a pathway for all New Jersey ins.

1200
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 2: All right, Maya ross Broka, thank you so much for

1201
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:09,920
Speaker 2: taking the time.

1202
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:10,560
Speaker 3: I appreciate it.

1203
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 2: All right, guys, that is the show, Emily Pleasure. Three

1204
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 2: lady shows in a row, discounting Friday. I mean Friday,

1205
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 2: we had Ryan in, but Friday's like a little bit different.

1206
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 3: So I'm talking about the main shows.

1207
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, main shows, three in a row. So you guys

1208
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:28,520
Speaker 5: will get your fix of the normal man woman dynamic.

1209
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 5: I guess tomorrow and Wednesday, because Ryan and I will

1210
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 5: be in on Wednesday, and Crystal, I'm really excited to

1211
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 5: watch you host with Tim Miller tomorrow.

1212
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm looking forward to It'll be interesting. I get

1213
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 2: some questions for him. I'm actually listening to his book

1214
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 2: to hear his explanation of his major ideological transition. And

1215
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:47,920
Speaker 2: you know, he did a fair amount of self assessment

1216
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:50,720
Speaker 2: about his sort of like culpability in the trends that

1217
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 2: led to where we are now.

1218
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,240
Speaker 8: So SPI's a lot of tea in that book too.

1219
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a lot of definitely.

1220
01:01:57,240 --> 01:02:00,200
Speaker 2: So I'm probably is a Republican reading like on the

1221
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 2: right reading it, you probably picked up on even more

1222
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 2: of the tea or some of the interpersonal dynamics.

1223
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, I mean it's a really interesting book and

1224
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:09,120
Speaker 5: I've actually recommended it to people before who want insight

1225
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 5: in how Washington operates. And people can dispute Tims and

1226
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 5: maybe I'll talk to the talk to him about this tomorrow,

1227
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 5: but they can dispute Tim's motivation for writing this, and

1228
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 5: he might actually even come out and say this. But

1229
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 5: you know, as soon as he was kind of i

1230
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 5: guess ostracized because of his views on Donald Trump and

1231
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 5: could no longer kind of operate in that space, he

1232
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 5: wrote the tell all about it, and you know, again

1233
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:33,400
Speaker 5: question the motivations by all means. But I think for

1234
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 5: Tim he did have a pretty sincere conversion away from

1235
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 5: the GOP orthodoxy that he really was aggressively pushing and

1236
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 5: making money off.

1237
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 8: Of for a long time here in DC.

1238
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:48,640
Speaker 5: So what you get in that book is a glimpse,

1239
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:52,880
Speaker 5: a really really i think detailed and a granular glimpse

1240
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:57,440
Speaker 5: of how the sausage is made here by consultants and oh, lobbyists,

1241
01:02:57,520 --> 01:02:57,920
Speaker 5: and all of that.

1242
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, he talks about how the.

1243
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 2: Compartmentalization that he was able to deploy as a gay

1244
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 2: man who was working for politicians who were anti gay

1245
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 2: in the context of a party that was overall very

1246
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 2: anti gay. It still is that that compartmentalization is in

1247
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 2: some ways the very same skill that other operatives who

1248
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:25,600
Speaker 2: previously may have been, you know, disgusted with Trump and

1249
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 2: opposed to what he stood for, et cetera, how they're

1250
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 2: able ultimately to just sort of cope with it and

1251
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 2: go along with it. So it's somewhat at least, you know,

1252
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 2: so far few chapters into the book, it's so much

1253
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 2: self deprecating about how he recognizes in the Trump justification

1254
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 2: the very same justifications that he was using in the

1255
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 2: context of working for John McCain or John Huntsman or

1256
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 2: other Republican politicians or for this group that basically would

1257
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 2: like fund AstroTurf, you know, organizations to bolster whatever conservative

1258
01:03:58,320 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 2: billionaires wanted them to do.

1259
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:03,560
Speaker 5: No, and I knew t him back then, and you know,

1260
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 5: even just talking to him now, I'm really excited for

1261
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:09,880
Speaker 5: this episode tomorrow because he's he's i think has a

1262
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:13,040
Speaker 5: lot to say about it like he's willing to talk

1263
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 5: about it, and I think that's really helpful because it's

1264
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:18,720
Speaker 5: very rare that you get someone who's fully willing to

1265
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 5: kind of uh divorce themselves from the previous, their previous

1266
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 5: life in Washington. And he's also like really funny, so

1267
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:29,680
Speaker 5: it'll be it's it's a he's a good messenger for

1268
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 5: the past.

1269
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 3: Life, excellent explaining it all.

1270
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:34,280
Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to Thank you guys so much for

1271
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 2: watching it. Thank you so much for sure supporting the show.

1272
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 2: If you are premium subscriber, we're going to switch over

1273
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:41,280
Speaker 2: and do a premium a m A. If you want

1274
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:42,840
Speaker 2: to be part of those in the future, make sure

1275
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:45,360
Speaker 2: to subscribe at Breakingpoints dot com. I'll see you back

1276
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:45,840
Speaker 2: here tomorrow