1 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: It was two ladies and gentlemen, the governor of Alaska 2 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: and the next Vice President of the United States, Sarah Palin. 3 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: Sarah Palin burst onto the national scene ten years ago, 4 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: and nobody had seen anything quite like her. Thank You. 5 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: Her coming out party was in St. Paul, Minnesota, at 6 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: the Republican National Convention. I will be honored to accept 7 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: your nomination for Vice President of the United States. One 8 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: of the great convention speeches that anybody will ever deliver. 9 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: I accepted Paul to help our nominee for president to 10 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: serve and defend America. Her speech was better than John mccains. 11 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: Her speech was the best speech of the convention. I 12 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: might add that in small towns, we don't quite know 13 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: what to make of a candidate who lavishes praise on 14 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: working people when they're listening, and then talks about how 15 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: bitterly they cling to their religion and guns when those 16 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: people aren't listening. I was so happy for her. She 17 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: nailed it. I ask you to join our cause and 18 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: help America elect a great man as the next President 19 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:42,119 Speaker 1: of the United States. And after the party was over, 20 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 1: it was time for Palin to hit the campaign trail 21 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: and meet the press. Do you consider yourself a feminist. 22 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: I do feminists who believes in equal rights, and I 23 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: believe that women. This month marks ten years since my 24 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: interview with Sarah Palin actually interviews plural. We had a 25 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: total of four separate conversations. If it doesn't pass, what 26 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: is the alternative that the as I say, in action 27 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: is not an option. We have got to shore up 28 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: our economy. This is crisis moment for America. Really, the 29 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: rest of the world also looking to see what the 30 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: impacts will be if America were to choose not to 31 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: shore up what has happened on Wall Street because of 32 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: the the ultimate adverse effects on Main Street, and then 33 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: how that affects this globalization that we're a part of 34 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: in our world. So the rest of the world really 35 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: is I've done thousands of interviews during the course of 36 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: my career, but this one perhaps had the greatest impact. 37 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: It was everywhere all over the internet and oliver people 38 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: for a long time. That is one of the most 39 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: pathetic pieces of tape I have ever seen. For someone 40 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: aspiring to one of the highest officers in this country. 41 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: Palin is clearly out of leave and she has become, 42 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: as you noted, an object of ridicule, in part because 43 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,519 Speaker 1: of that Katie Couric interview, which was a real turning 44 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: point in her kid The interviews were even spoofed on 45 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: s N. L Amy Pollard did her best Katie Curic, 46 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: and famously, Tina Fey channeled Sarah Palin Katie, I'd like 47 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: to use one of my lifelines. I'm sorry, I want 48 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 1: to phone a friend. Sarah Palin was mocked because of 49 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: what she didn't know, but maybe despite her lack of 50 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: policy detail, she actually knew more about the American electorate 51 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: than we realized. What if Sarah Palin was a sign 52 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: of things to come? We tend to prefer candidates who 53 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: don't talk about us. One way in Scranton and another 54 00:03:52,880 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: way in San Francisco. This weekend next week and a 55 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: two part special, we're looking back at the rise and 56 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: fall of one of the most captivating candidates in recent memory. 57 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: We'll talk about the interview that was literally heard around 58 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: the world and the impact it had on the two 59 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: thousand eight election. We'll also take a look at the 60 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: American political scene today, Are you ready to make America 61 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: great Again? And we'll consider the path Sarah Palin may 62 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: have paved for the current President of the United States, 63 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 1: God was the United States America and our next President 64 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: of the United States, Donald J. Trump. Answer spinning Media 65 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: answer spinning. This is gonna be sold much funding. So, Katie, 66 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: back in two thousand and eight, as you know, I 67 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 1: worked with you at CBS as your political producer, and 68 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: we spend a lot of time getting ready for those interviews. 69 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: And since then we've actually spent even more more time 70 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: thinking and talking to people about those conversations. And Brian, 71 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: we should mention that one person we didn't talk to 72 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: for this podcast is Governor Palin herself, but not for 73 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: lack of trying. We did reach out and we asked 74 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 1: her if she'd like to participate, but we still haven't 75 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: gotten a response. In order to understand Sarah Palin, you 76 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: first need to understand the McCain campaign. Steve's here, How 77 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: are you? How are We sat down with Steve Schmidt, 78 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: a Republican strategist who had worked on the campaigns of 79 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: George W. Bush and Arnold Schwarzenegger. I've never talked about 80 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: any of this stuff in the first person. Steve first 81 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: got involved in the McCain campaign back in two thousand 82 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,799 Speaker 1: and seven, when it looked like the Arizona Senator wasn't 83 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: even going to be a serious contender for his party's 84 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: presidential nomination. His campaign had collapsed in the summer of 85 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, and he had gone from front 86 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: runner to last play completely broke. The National Press Corps 87 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: was assembled in Manchester waiting for him to arrive. He 88 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: came in on a Southwest Airlines flight in the back 89 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: in the middle seat, you know, when are you getting 90 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: out of the race? And he called me, you know, 91 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: and I helped lead, you know, a comeback that he 92 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: was a big comeback in the history of presidential nominations, 93 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: from last to first, but it was just completely overshadowed 94 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: by the historic nature of the Hillary and the Obama race. 95 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: The day that McCain becomes the nominee of the party, 96 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: essentially there's thirty five people working for the campaign, were 97 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: nine million dollars in debt, and the four senior people 98 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: were all volunteers. I was a volunteer all the way through. 99 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: By contrast, day that Obama becomes the nominee, there's two 100 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 1: thousand people working on the campaign. There's hundreds of millions 101 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: of dollars in the bank, it was like fighting the 102 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 1: Death Star. And you know, by the time we get 103 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: to the summer of oh eight, when I take over 104 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: dated A responsibilities for the campaign, Barack Obama is in 105 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,359 Speaker 1: Berlin Um speaking to hundreds of thousands of screaming Germans 106 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: in the Steuben plots wherever it is. Let me thank 107 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: Chancellor Merkel, and thank you to the people of Germany 108 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: for this extraordinary welcome. Thank you. You know we're watching 109 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: this on TV on a day where McCain has the 110 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: Straight Talk Express parked outside of literally Schmidt's sausage house. 111 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: Schmitt's house, no relation to Steve Schmidt, who is part 112 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: of our campaign, as we know, somewhere in Ohio, and 113 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: there's six old ladies standing out there, right, boy, and 114 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: they're like, you're in charge, right, You're to be in 115 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: charge now. And so we came back over that summer 116 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: really from a deficit of fourteen fifteen points, and we 117 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: were by the time the Democratic Convention gets ready to go, 118 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: we're in an even race. They came back in part 119 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: by highlighting Obama's lack of experience. He's the biggest celebrity 120 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: in the world, but is he ready to lead? I'm 121 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: John McCain and I approved this message. Steve Schmidt was 122 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: feeling pretty good about the gains the McCain campaign had 123 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: made over the summer, but he still knew the chances 124 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: of winning or slim. It was definitely a change election. 125 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: There's been three times in the last you know, at 126 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: that point a hundred and eight years, where the incoming 127 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: president's party had gotten a third term. So we knew 128 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 1: we were in difficult circumstances and we were going to 129 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: have to do something big and to throw the ball. 130 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: So remember that in two thousand eight, you have a 131 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: flagging economy, a disastrous war in Iraq, and into R. W. Bush, 132 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: a very unpopular incumbent Republican president, and here comes Barack Obama, 133 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: who had defeated Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primary and 134 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: a huge upset. He was young, He gave these soaring speeches. 135 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 1: His campaign's mantra of hope and change was electrifying voters, 136 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: and he presented America with the legitimate possibility of electing 137 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: the first African American president ever. So, yeah, Katie, I 138 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: think it's safe to say that McCain's team was feeling 139 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: the pressure. He said, we're not gonna win We're just 140 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: we're gonna go to the bottom of the of the drink, 141 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: so to speak, here really fast, no excitement, no sizzle. UM. 142 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: And I said, our our choices sucked. This process has 143 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: been bad. We don't have a viable choice now to 144 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: do what we need to do politically. And I said, 145 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: um to my ever lasting regret in these words slowed 146 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: down in my mind to to this day. And I said, 147 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: what about Sarah Palin? I said, I don't know much 148 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 1: about her other than she's the most popular governor in 149 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: the country. She's got an eighty six percent approval rating. 150 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: She's gone after the oil companies. She's feuding with all 151 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: these corrupt Alaska politicians, including the senators that McCain hates 152 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: their guts. I said, we should check her out, and 153 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: the rest is history. One of Steve Schmidt's closest colleagues 154 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: during that campaign was Nicole Wallace. They'd worked together in 155 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: California politics and for George W. Bush, it was Wallace 156 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: who was assigned to help Sarah Palin prepare for the 157 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 1: major moments of the campaign. How has it been ten years? 158 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: I'm scarred as though it was yesterday. Well, let's talk 159 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: about how you got those scars in the first place. 160 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,319 Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about the first day you 161 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: met Sarah Palin. What were your initial impressions. So I 162 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: didn't know who her McCain had selected, and I tried 163 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: to squeeze in a root canal, which is the kind 164 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: of idiocy you engage in on presidential campaigns in between 165 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 1: the two conventions. So I had raised home to New 166 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: York to have a root canal, and they called and 167 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: they said you have to be there for VP and 168 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: ounce and UM. And I threw a fit. And I 169 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: was on vicadin and antibiotics and out of my mind. 170 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 1: And I and I take a flight and we drive 171 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 1: to Middletale and I pulled up in front of it 172 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: and I said, there is no way Steve Schmidt is 173 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: staying here. This place is such a dumb We get 174 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:38,079 Speaker 1: out and and Steve and Salter outside and Salter smoking 175 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: like two cigarettes with one hand, and I'm like, oh 176 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: my god, what are we done? And they they threw 177 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: open the door, and I'm three sheets to the wind 178 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: on vicadin. And I stared at her and I think, 179 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: I think of who is this? You know, she's beautiful, 180 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: but who is this? And and Steve said, Nicole, meet 181 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: the next Vice President of the United States, Sarah Palin 182 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 1: from the great State of Alaska. And I said, and 183 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: I said, nice to meet you. Congratulations. She had on 184 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: a black fleece and a black mini skirt and she 185 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: was just stunning and charming and charismatic. And I talked 186 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: to her for a minute and I said, excuse me, 187 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: and I walked out, and Steve followed me out, and 188 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: he said, what do you think And I said, oh, 189 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: she's great. She seems great. And he said there's a 190 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 1: couple of things. It's not going to be smooth. And 191 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 1: I said, well, I said, well, you know, the daughter 192 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: is pregnant. And I said, oh, okay, and I said 193 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: she's sixteen. I said okay, and then he and he said, 194 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: you know, he gave me a couple other red flags. 195 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: And I said, oh, yeah, I'm sure everything will work out. 196 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:41,719 Speaker 1: And and she was. You know, she was a surprise 197 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: to me, as she was a surprise to the country, 198 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: a surprise to Wallace because she knew who McCain's first 199 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: choice for vice president actually was. The idea was that 200 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 1: McCain was going to go out and he was going 201 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: to say Barack Obama is a good man, and I 202 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: think he's gonna be President of the United States someday, 203 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: but not yet. He's not ready, and we have some 204 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: serious problems in this country. And then say, I'm seventy 205 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: two years old. I've spent every hour of my adult 206 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: life in service to the country, and if the American 207 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: people so honor me with it, I have one last mission. 208 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 1: For that mission, I've asked a great American, a great 209 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: member of the Democratic Party, to stand with me, Senator 210 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: Joe Lieberman. I'm going to serve one term only, and 211 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,439 Speaker 1: we thought we had a chance with that. How close 212 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: did you come to extreme? Became extremely close. You might recall, 213 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: Joe Lieberman was besties with John McCain and along with 214 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: Senator Lindsey Graham, they were called the Three Amigos. Graham 215 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: was so excited about the Lieberman idea he just couldn't 216 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: keep it to himself. So what happened was Lindsey Graham 217 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: um floated this idea out at a meeting somewhere in 218 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: South Carolina with a lot of hardcore conservatives, and you know, 219 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: the answer was predictable, and literally within hours, you know, 220 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: President Bush had called Rove had called um your Russ 221 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: Limbaud called Hannity, and so we said, I can't do it. 222 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: So to be clear, but for Lindsay Graham's leak, the 223 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: ticket would have been McCain and Lieberman. There would have 224 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: been unhappiness, there may have been controlled rioting, but I 225 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: think we would have gotten it through. So the base 226 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: of the party was having none of Joe Lieberman. But 227 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: John McCain was still ready to do something big and bold. 228 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: Was this a real hail Mary? Yeah? For sure. He 229 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: felt like there was this little sliver of the electorate 230 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: that might be available. Um uh, people that that that 231 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: had been really hungry for a female Canada and Hillary Clinton. 232 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: And you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't lay at all 233 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: on that. I think there were a lot of things 234 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: about Sarah Palin that appealed to John McCain, the maverick. 235 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: But but certainly, you know, putting a woman on the ticket. 236 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: It turned out to be important to him when he 237 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: selected her. Meanwhile, the Obama campaign learned of the choice 238 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:16,239 Speaker 1: as they wrapped up their convention. Here's Obama chief strategist 239 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: David axel Rod and we got on the plane leaving 240 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: Denver the campaign plane and I got on my BlackBerry, 241 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: which is what we were carrying at the time, the 242 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: news that, uh, Sarah Palin had been chosen as the 243 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: running mate. And when you got that news, what was 244 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: your reaction. I was surprised. We had been doing research 245 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: on I think seven potential running mates for John McCain. 246 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: She was not one of them. I really didn't know 247 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: that much about her. I will say I went up 248 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: to the front of the plane and I grabbed Obama 249 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: and I told him, you know, he's big Sarah Palin 250 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: and m Biden ran over after a while and so 251 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: what's going on? And I told him and he said, 252 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: who's Sarah Palin? Yeah. I remember Senator Obama saying, in 253 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: his analytical way, now, that's very interesting why I think 254 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: he did that. And he's running through the reasons in 255 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: his own head. She's a woman, she's an outsider, represents change. 256 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: And then he paused and he said, but you know, 257 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: he said, this running for president thing, this is tough. 258 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: He said, you know, I think I'm a reasonably smart guy. 259 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: And it took me probably six months before I was 260 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: a halfway decent candidate. Uh, you know, maybe she's the 261 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: greatest politician since Ronald Reagan. And she could come right 262 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: out of it Alaska and handle this Maelstrom, he said. 263 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: But I'd give this about a month and then we'll know. 264 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: And I am especially proud to say in the week 265 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: we celebrate the anniversary of women's suffrage, devoted wife and 266 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: a mother of five, she's got the great integrity, good sense, 267 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: and fierce devotion to the common good. That is exactly 268 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: what we need in Washington today. I know that it 269 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: will demand the best that I have to give, and 270 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: I promise nothing less. I just thought, I don't know 271 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: how this is gonna work out, and I said so publicly, 272 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 1: and I was told quite explicitly. And I won't tell 273 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: you a boy who to shut the hell up. That's 274 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: a long time Republican polster and TV pundit, Frank Lents. 275 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 1: He actually spends a lot of time out in the 276 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: country talking to voters. So why do you think she 277 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: was picked? I think she was picked because people like 278 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 1: Bill Crystal thought she'd be amazing. Uh. There are a 279 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: number of stories that were positive about her. In the 280 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 1: Weekly stand. Udered that Fox News had talked about her, 281 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: and there was that pressure from the conservative intelligentsia that 282 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: they should go with it, John McCain should go with 283 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: someone who wasn't necessarily from the intelligencia, that they should 284 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: go with someone who could really connect because everyone knew 285 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: that Barack Obama could connect. This is the time when 286 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: they started to say among Republicans that they wanted to 287 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 1: choose someone who could relate to people in the phone 288 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 1: book rather than people who taught at Harvard, Yale or Princeton. 289 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 1: But the boys were doing, we're out chopping wood, and 290 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 1: we're out hunting and fishing and filling our freezer with 291 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: good while to lasting game to feed our family. So 292 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: it kind of started with but we've never had it 293 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 1: in this kind of package before. We never had someone 294 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,479 Speaker 1: who actually did pick up a gun and shoot bears. 295 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: We never had someone who could skin a fish or 296 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: some of the phrases that she used fish whatever you 297 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: gotta fish, skin of fish. I hate fish, so you 298 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: gotta understand I would find it morally and physically reprehensible 299 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: to do anything with a fish. But she could. And 300 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: that was what was different about her. She was real, 301 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: She was she was every American, and she was approachable. 302 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: She was relatable, and that is not typical. She's not 303 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: she's not from these parts, and she's not from Washington. 304 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,959 Speaker 1: But when you get to know her, you're gonna be 305 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: as impressed as I am. Tonight, we are still looking 306 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,919 Speaker 1: at a major hurricane. There's no change there. The choice 307 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: of Sarah Palin was announced on a Friday, and her 308 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: first big test was the Republican National Convention, which was 309 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: supposed to start the following Monday, but it could be 310 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: up to twelve to six a storm surge. There was 311 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: a Category five hurricane that was forecast to hit New 312 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,120 Speaker 1: Orleans on the day that Bush and Cheney were both 313 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:16,199 Speaker 1: speaking at the Republican Convention with approval levels. It was 314 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: also the third anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, which served as 315 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: yet another reminder of the GOP's very unpopular incumbent. I 316 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: was like, you know what, when is somebody to tell me? 317 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 1: The Straight Talk Express hit the bubonic plague bus right 318 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: and then wiped out the city at Charleston. I mean, 319 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: it was just you couldn't you couldn't make it up. 320 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 1: It was the most intensive kind of communications crisis experience 321 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 1: I've had in my life. After a rocky start, the 322 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,719 Speaker 1: convention was back on course. Let's get John McCain and 323 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: say her pent elected. It was day three. Rudy Giuliani, 324 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: Mitt Romney, and Mike Huckabee, all men. John McCain beat 325 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: in the primary spoke, and then it was Palin's turn. 326 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: The stakes could not have been higher, and I'm backstage 327 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: with McCain, who'se boy, goes, how's she gonna do in 328 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: the speech? I was like, it's it's gonna be okay, um, 329 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: not believing that necessarily right, ladies and gentlemen, the governor 330 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,479 Speaker 1: of Alaska. I don't ever ever told the story, but 331 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:38,479 Speaker 1: I walked her onto the stage and she was holding 332 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 1: my hand and she had tea, and the last thing 333 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: she did was hand me her tea, and then I 334 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 1: let go of her hand and she goes to have 335 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,199 Speaker 1: to go out there now. I said, she's gonna go 336 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: out there now, it's gonna be great, and oh god, 337 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: it gives me like the same like tightness in my 338 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: chest ten years later. But she went out there and 339 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: I was standing so close to her that I was 340 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: reading the prompt or alongside her, and at one point 341 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: someone held up a sign and covered the prompter and 342 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: I went, oh fuck, it's like don't cover the prompter, 343 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: and Sarah Palin without missing a beat. That was when 344 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: she said, I love those hockey moms. You know they 345 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: say the difference between a hockey mom and a pit 346 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:26,479 Speaker 1: bull lipstick. That wasn't in the speed though it was 347 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: a fan held up a sign and covered her prompter 348 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: for a minute, and I, you know, died a thousand 349 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: deaths in that moment. That impromptu zinger had convention goers 350 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 1: eating out of Palin's hand. Katie, you and I were there, 351 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,239 Speaker 1: and as you know, the speech was both funny and 352 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: very moving. No matter how you feel about Sarah Palin 353 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: today back then, if you were in that convention hall 354 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: or watching on TV, she definitely hit it out of 355 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: the park. Our nominee for president is a true profile 356 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: and courage and like that are hard to come by. 357 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: He's a man who wore the uniform of his country 358 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: for twenty two years and refused to break faith with 359 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: those troops in Iraq who now have brought victory within sight. 360 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: And as the mother of one of those troops, that 361 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: is exactly the kind of man I want as commander 362 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: in ch I was in the back room with with 363 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 1: John McCain. Here's Steve Schmidt again in about thirty seconds. 364 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: In a minute in he goes, she's good, she's good, 365 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: she's good. Another minute it was, and she's great, great. 366 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: You know by the time another couple of minutes and 367 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: he's like, she's she's she's she's sucking great. Meanwhile, poster 368 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,439 Speaker 1: Frank Lantz was up in the stands. I was in 369 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: the box with the big donors. And I need to 370 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 1: be careful about this because many of them have been 371 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: married to or even three times. And when they saw 372 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: her step out with a the shortest skirt ever that 373 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,679 Speaker 1: anyone has worn at a national well, let us just 374 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,679 Speaker 1: say that they remarked verbally about how short it was. 375 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 1: So perceptions, reality and politics. If that's what they perceive, 376 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: its ok. And they said things that today might have 377 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,400 Speaker 1: gotten them into trouble. But they were mesmerized by her. 378 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: The convention was mesmerized by her. I guess, I guess 379 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 1: a small town mayor is sort of like a community organizer, 380 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: except that you have actual responsibilities. Here's a little news 381 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: flash for those reporters and commentators. I'm not going to 382 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: Washington to seek their good opinion. I'm going to Washington 383 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: and to serve the people of this great country. To 384 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: this day, the loudest noise I have ever heard in 385 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: my life created by human beings, was the sound of 386 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: political ecstasy unleashed by one of the great convention speeches 387 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: that anybody will ever deliver, Join our cause and help 388 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: America elect a great man as the next president of 389 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 1: the United States. She electrified that Republican convention. Everyone's high 390 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: fiving each other. All the guys in that booth thought, 391 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: this is going to be the next Margaret Thatcher, only 392 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: approachable and relatable. I can't begin to illustrate just how 393 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: excited the people in the box and all the people 394 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 1: around me that this was the choice everyone walked out 395 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: of They're thinking this may have been the most important 396 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 1: speech that they had ever seen. And I remember afterwards, 397 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: I saw John McCain too, and he he said the 398 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: same thing. You know, she did great. And I said 399 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 1: her prompter went down. He said it did and I said, yeah, 400 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,199 Speaker 1: it was blocked at one point and went down at 401 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: one point. He goes, oh my god, I would have 402 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: been fucked. I mean, you know, John McCain was so 403 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:38,479 Speaker 1: impressed by her, and I think she she had this 404 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: much needed infusion of confidence, and when McCain came out 405 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: after her speech, he actually asked the crowd, don't you 406 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: think we made the right choice for the next vice 407 00:26:50,760 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: President of the United States. But after the teleprompters were 408 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: packed up and the hockey Mom signs were gathered off 409 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: the convention floor, that question still remained. Did John McCain 410 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: make the right choice for vice President? After the break, 411 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: we'll get into what happened and what we were thinking 412 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: when I sat down with Sarah Palin. Sarah Palin represents 413 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 1: the loss mother Mayor, Moose, Hunter and Maverick joined me 414 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 1: at a welcome for the next five president of the 415 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: United States, Come Sarah. After her extraordinary performance at the convention, 416 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: Sarah Palin continued to wow the crowds at Raleigh, thank 417 00:27:55,400 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 1: you after rally, Wlorida are ready to send us to 418 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 1: d C. After rally, I feel like I am at 419 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 1: home because I see the car hearts and the steel 420 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: tone boots. But it was also time for her to 421 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: face a tougher audience journalists and Katie. As soon as 422 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: Palin was picked, of course, we started trying to land 423 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: an interview. Yeah, I was determined to sit down and 424 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 1: face Sarah Palin one on one not to quote get her, 425 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: but really to learn more about her and let the 426 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: American people see who this person really was. McCain's team 427 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: felt the same way. They thought it was a rite 428 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: of passage for political candidates. Once again, here's Nicole Wallace. 429 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: I do remember thinking it was important to do the 430 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: places with the most reach, and so I remember the 431 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: two networks that we settled on for ABC and CBS. 432 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: Let's talk about our relationship. You were a CBS News 433 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: political analysts and then you went on leave or left 434 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: to work for the McCain campaign. So you and I 435 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: did have a personal relationship, but that really didn't have 436 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: anything to do with this, right. This is one of 437 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: the funniest things about how Palin sort of internalized it. 438 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: In any other campaign, it is viewed as sort of 439 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: an asset. You worked for Katie. You understand the kinds 440 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: of things she's interested in. The idea that either one 441 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: of us would betray our professions, that that that I would, 442 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: you know, put my finger on the scale for you 443 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: and not the ticket is such a misunderstanding of how 444 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: it works. I had an insight into the things that 445 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: you asked any politician, the things that were of interest 446 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: to you. I worked for her and tried to do 447 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 1: my best to use that insight into what you like 448 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: to cover, on what you were interested in, and I 449 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: understood that you'd asked things that hadn't been asked before. 450 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: With big interviews lined up, the campaign started prepping Palin, 451 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: and almost immediately Steve Schmidt realized there was a lot 452 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 1: of work to do. So I get on the bus 453 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: and I say, um, you're gonna meet meeting your foreign 454 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: policy briefing team later today. I said, I just want 455 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: to start. I just want to talk to you narratively 456 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: about the counterinsurgency strategy underway in Iraq. Twenty minutes later, 457 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: I was like, somebody get me a map, and I 458 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: was like, this is Iraq, this is Afghanistan. These are 459 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: the people who lived in caves who came here on 460 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: nine eleven and attacked us. No, they weren't from Iraq 461 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: that we attacked them. Did she think they were from 462 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 1: A Yeah, yeah, for sure, she thought the people responsible 463 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: for nine eleven. So I'm having a conversation you know 464 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: where she's thinking about. You know, it's the queen that 465 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: the president would deal with on any one of a 466 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 1: number of issues. And you know, I've kind of blocked 467 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: this out. I recall being physically sick, um walking off 468 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: of the bus into a bathroom, um over it. But 469 00:30:55,400 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: was was shocked, scared, shitless. Um. I couldn't believe it. 470 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: The first time a doctor. It was obvious that she 471 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 1: had not been not just a participant in any of 472 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: the policy debates that had transpired in the previous five 473 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: to ten years, but she hadn't paid attention to them. 474 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: You know, this is kind of the occasion where there's 475 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: tough conversation. I was. I was really angry, but you know, 476 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 1: as as they say, we had to fix it. We 477 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: had a we had a preparer, and um, you know, 478 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 1: we had to get ready for you know, these first 479 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: national interviews. So Katie, we should step back for a 480 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: second and talk not just about the position Sarah Palin 481 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: was in at the time, but the position you were 482 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: in at the time. Do we have to Frankly, it 483 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: was a tough period for me. After fifteen years at 484 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: the Today Show, I was brought on by CBS to 485 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: try to turn around the Evening News, which PS had 486 00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: been in third place for many, many years before I 487 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: arrived five. There was a lot of hype around my hiring, 488 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: and in retrospect, I think we may have tried to 489 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 1: change too much, too quickly. But the result was even 490 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: though we brought in a younger audience and I was 491 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: proud of the work we did and by the way 492 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 1: the awards we won, I really couldn't dramatically improve the ratings, 493 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: and because of that I was getting some of the 494 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: worst press of my life. I also think there might 495 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: have been some sexism involved, but that's a whole other podcast. 496 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: I have to agree with you on that, Katie. I mean, 497 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: I remember the incessant coverage of your hair and your clothes, 498 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: and anyway, as you say, that's a different show at 499 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 1: a different time. Those were some dark days. I remember 500 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: sitting at my kitchen table one night. I was so 501 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: upset I might have been crying over my pasta, and 502 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: my daughter Carrie said, Mom, don't forget what Samantha says 503 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: on sex in the City. If I listened to what 504 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: every bit in New York said about me, I'd never 505 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: leave the house. Could you let your ten year old 506 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: watch that? I know I really shouldn't have done that, 507 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: but I have to say it did make me feel better, 508 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: and so we were really eager to get the first 509 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: interview with Sarah Palin and Brian. As you remember, we 510 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: had actually scored the third interview with her. I remember 511 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: being pretty upset about that. Yeah, I remember we were 512 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: all very piste to put it mildly anyway. The first 513 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,479 Speaker 1: interview went to Charlie Gibson of ABC News. Do you 514 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: agree with the Bush doctrine in what respect? Charlie? The 515 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: second went to Sean Hannity at Fox. One of the 516 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: big big benefits of the job as you get a 517 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: really big plane. My husband, he's a pilot, but I 518 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 1: would have to convince him. Also, we can't be getting 519 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: around anymore in our little Piper super cub. We'd be 520 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: used in that air forced outside your house. The larger 521 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: than life. Rick Kaplan, who's a real legend in the 522 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: TV news business, was the executive producer of the CBS 523 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: Evening News. When Gibson got his interview, and then we said, 524 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: oh god, we're not first, and and then after watching it, 525 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: you knew and we hoped we had room there because 526 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: there was a lot of stuff that was not done 527 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: right by by them. I remember feeling like this was 528 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 1: a really important interview, and the stakes couldn't have been higher, Katie. 529 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 1: Did you feel that way at the time, definitely, Brian. 530 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 1: I knew it would get a lot of attention, and 531 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: I would get a lot of attention. I really wanted 532 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: to do a good job, not only for me, but 533 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,399 Speaker 1: also for the electorate, because I wanted them to get 534 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: a sense of Sarah Palin's understanding of a number of 535 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: important issues, where she stood how she would lead. And 536 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: it sounds almost precious to say now, but it was 537 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 1: a very divided country even back then, and the partisanship 538 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,839 Speaker 1: was so intense. I wanted to be viewed as an 539 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 1: honest broker who asked fair questions. I also remember being 540 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 1: super conscious of my facial expressions that I would not 541 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 1: look at her skeptically or cock my head like a 542 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: dog hearing a high pitched noise. I wasn't going to 543 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: do anything that might convey a sense of judging her 544 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 1: or being patronizing or reacting to anything she said. So 545 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:15,760 Speaker 1: I really was intent on being completely expressionless. I remember 546 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 1: we spent three or four days in the den of 547 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: your apartment in New York. You called this place the 548 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: Red Room, which because it was painted red. Maybe a 549 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: little bit of a red Room of Pain theme for 550 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: you anyway, for me for sure. Anyway, we were trying 551 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,759 Speaker 1: to read everything Palin had ever said or written. We 552 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: were trying to figure out what hadn't been asked of 553 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: her before. And you must have read what hundreds of articles, 554 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: including some from Alaska newspapers. Oh my god, I remember 555 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: doing nexus searches of local Alaska articles back when she 556 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,359 Speaker 1: was mayor of was Silla. My god, you're nothing if 557 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 1: not thorough. I remember. We also tried to put you 558 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 1: in touch with the smartest people we could find. That's right. 559 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: I called a number of former top government and officials, 560 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,359 Speaker 1: Democrats and Republicans because I wanted to find out what 561 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,799 Speaker 1: they thought I should ask. And the best advice I 562 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: think I got was from former Secretary of State Madeline Albright, 563 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: who said, just let her talk because people don't know 564 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,359 Speaker 1: her and people don't know what she believes. And I 565 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,359 Speaker 1: thought that was very good advice. So, while we were 566 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: in the Red Room prepping our side of the interview, 567 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: across New York City, Nicole Wallace was working with Sarah Palin. 568 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 1: I went to brief for the night before at a 569 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 1: hotel and I remember walking down the street with my 570 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: bag and it was like rumbling over the cracks, and 571 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,720 Speaker 1: and her press aids walked out like shaking their heads, 572 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:40,879 Speaker 1: looking shell shocked. I said, how to go. They said, 573 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: not good, good luck, And that left me along with her. 574 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: And she carried around the stack of cards like almost 575 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: eight inches tall, with all these things that she was 576 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: trying to memorize on them, and I said, give me 577 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: the cards, and I said, let's just talk. And I 578 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 1: tried talking her through. You know, she hadn't really answered 579 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 1: many questions about social issues, she hadn't answered many questions 580 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 1: about Hillary. She she had said some sort of interesting 581 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,760 Speaker 1: and not fully formed things about Russia. Because this really 582 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 1: was the focus of this first interview was really foreign policy, 583 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,760 Speaker 1: because it was following her visit at the u N 584 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 1: talking to world leaders. I mean, it was an opportunity 585 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 1: for her to sort of clean up some of the 586 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,320 Speaker 1: things she'd said about Russia, and so so I remember 587 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: trying to brief her and she was just blank. I 588 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,240 Speaker 1: think she was tapped out. I think she was drained. 589 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 1: She she was on a plane, and so she was 590 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,799 Speaker 1: watching the coverage of herself incessantly in a loop and 591 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: it was in her head. She was rattled. And so 592 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 1: I remember the night before trying to get her to 593 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: focus on the interview. I had no luck briefing her 594 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 1: on any of the foreign policy stuff. John at that 595 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,319 Speaker 1: point was really concerned about Putin and Russia. UM, so 596 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 1: I think that got in her head in a weird way. 597 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: She ended up saying something to you about Russia poconists 598 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: in the eye or somethingwhere it is from Alaska that 599 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 1: we send those out to make sure that and I 600 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 1: is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because 601 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,399 Speaker 1: they are right there, they are right next to um 602 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 1: to our state uh PTSD. The evening before she was 603 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 1: essentially catatonic. That morning of the interview. She was throwing 604 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: her clothes around the room, throwing hangars at people, scrubbing 605 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,319 Speaker 1: makeup off her face, in a in a state of 606 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:34,280 Speaker 1: real distress, incredibly cruel, mean, vicious personal allegend, conspiracies attacks, 607 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: everyone is out together. And and that was before the interview, right, 608 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 1: and they said, you know, what, what are we gonna? 609 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,680 Speaker 1: What are we gonna do? You know? Was she ready 610 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:49,319 Speaker 1: to do this? And kind of what's what's the choice? Right? 611 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: What's the choice? I don't know that we should have 612 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 1: canceled it or or not. So obviously they didn't cancel Katie, 613 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: what do you remember about the day of the first 614 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 1: interview about meeting Sarah Palin? I think I first met 615 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,839 Speaker 1: her Brian when she was coming out of her hotel room, 616 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 1: and she was quite beautiful, very dynamic, very warm, and 617 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 1: seemed to be pretty relaxed. I remember she was really 618 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 1: friendly with a number of the crew guys, and you 619 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 1: and I could name a lot of politicians who aren't 620 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 1: that friendly with the crew. So I remember being impressed 621 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: by that. Oh and one other thing we should mention. 622 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 1: The first interview was supposed to be about foreign policy, 623 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,400 Speaker 1: but at that time the economy was entering the worst 624 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,040 Speaker 1: financial crisis since the Great Depression. It was a manic 625 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 1: Monday in the financial market. Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy, 626 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 1: breaking news here. Stocks all around the world are taking 627 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,720 Speaker 1: because of the crisis on Wall Street. So of course 628 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,359 Speaker 1: I had to ask a question about that. You've said, 629 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,359 Speaker 1: quote John McCain will reform the way Wall Street does 630 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,799 Speaker 1: business other than supporting stricter regulations of Fannie Mae and 631 00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,799 Speaker 1: Freddie mac two years ago, can you give us any 632 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:04,200 Speaker 1: more examples of his leading the charge for more oversight. 633 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 1: I think that the example that you just cided with 634 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 1: his warnings two years ago about Fannie and Freddie, that 635 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 1: that's paramount. That's more than a heck of a lot 636 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 1: of other senators and representatives did for us. But he's 637 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,920 Speaker 1: been in Congress for twenty six years, he's been chairman 638 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: of the powerful Commerce Committee, and he is almost always 639 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:30,279 Speaker 1: cited with less regulation, not more. He's also known as 640 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 1: the Maverick, though taken shots from his own party and 641 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,879 Speaker 1: certainly taken shots from the other party trying to get 642 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 1: people to understand what he's been talking about the need 643 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:43,839 Speaker 1: to reform government. I'm just gonna ask you one more 644 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,799 Speaker 1: time not to belabor the point specific examples in his 645 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 1: twenty six years of pushing for more regulations. I'll try 646 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 1: to find you someone. I'll bring him to you. She 647 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: just looks so unsure, Like if if you have bravado 648 00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,799 Speaker 1: about your ignorance, that's one thing to the voter. But 649 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,319 Speaker 1: if you look as rattled by your ignorance as she 650 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,239 Speaker 1: made me feel about her ignorance, it reads his instability. 651 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 1: And I thought that's what she displayed with you, Katie, 652 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 1: as you watched Sarah Palin's struggle, what were you thinking about? Well, 653 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:17,480 Speaker 1: I couldn't help but feel sorry for her. Obviously she 654 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,600 Speaker 1: was out of her depth when it came to a 655 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,600 Speaker 1: lot of important policy issues, and you'd have to have 656 00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,480 Speaker 1: ice water running through your veins if you didn't feel 657 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 1: some compassion for her. But then, as if I was 658 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,400 Speaker 1: going through the stages of grief, I got a little 659 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,879 Speaker 1: angry at John McCain and questioned his judgment and why 660 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: he picked somebody who was clearly not ready for prime time. 661 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,240 Speaker 1: I'll never forget. During the interview, I was sitting next 662 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,839 Speaker 1: to a press aide for the McCain campaign and he 663 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 1: was texting someone and I was close enough that I 664 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:52,080 Speaker 1: could actually see the screen of his BlackBerry. He was texting, 665 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,880 Speaker 1: this is a disaster, and there was actually Katie a 666 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: more colorful word before disaster. But I'm too much reproved 667 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 1: to repeat it on the show. But go ahead, Brian, 668 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,520 Speaker 1: Let's just say it rhymes with ducking Katie. And I 669 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,360 Speaker 1: went straight from the interview with you and her to 670 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 1: McCain's hotwe room and I said, I need you to 671 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,560 Speaker 1: call her, and he said why, I said, just call her. 672 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:14,160 Speaker 1: Until her SI a good job with Katie and he 673 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,239 Speaker 1: said did she? I said, I don't think so. And 674 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 1: he said to Katie Live, I go, yeah, maybe I'll 675 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,680 Speaker 1: not fail it off the news do it, And in 676 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,839 Speaker 1: fact he did. McCain canceled on David Letterman and went 677 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,840 Speaker 1: on the Evening News to talk about his decision to 678 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,920 Speaker 1: temporarily suspend his campaign. And by the way, David Letterman 679 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,480 Speaker 1: was none too pleased about this and spent a good 680 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,200 Speaker 1: nine minutes railing about it on his show. But he 681 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,440 Speaker 1: had to cancel the show because he's suspending his campaign 682 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:49,120 Speaker 1: because the economy is exploding. So the first interview ends. 683 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,880 Speaker 1: Everyone knows it was a disaster for Sarah Palin, but 684 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 1: there was another interview scheduled and Katie you recently asked 685 00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 1: Steve Schmidt about their decision then to go ahead with it. 686 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,600 Speaker 1: Why did you agree to let her do that second interview? Well, 687 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:08,200 Speaker 1: because if you don't do the second interview and have 688 00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,600 Speaker 1: any recovery from the from the first one, then the 689 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:16,000 Speaker 1: first one is cemented in there. Right, is just like 690 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,919 Speaker 1: when Rocky fought Mr T and Rocky three and got 691 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,400 Speaker 1: his ass kicked? Right? Is there how to be a rematch, 692 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,279 Speaker 1: and the way you dealt with the first one was 693 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,640 Speaker 1: by winning the rematch in the second one with a 694 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,520 Speaker 1: competent performance, Katie, I love the Rocky three comparison. I 695 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,600 Speaker 1: guess that makes you Mr T to whom you're often compared, 696 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:41,239 Speaker 1: pity the fool. So Palin gets back in the ring 697 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,759 Speaker 1: ding ding ding nice and in this round there is 698 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,719 Speaker 1: perhaps the most famous exchange of all. Yeah, you know 699 00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,440 Speaker 1: everyone asked me about this moment. If they remember a 700 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:54,000 Speaker 1: question from the interview, it's this one. It was during 701 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,759 Speaker 1: a walk and talk following a rally in Ohio. We 702 00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,359 Speaker 1: were just actually getting b roll of the two of us. 703 00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:01,799 Speaker 1: She had already done one interview, and I could tell 704 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,600 Speaker 1: she was getting pretty sick of me. She seemed to 705 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,839 Speaker 1: have such strong views. I wanted to know where they 706 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:11,719 Speaker 1: came from, so I asked her what she read and 707 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,640 Speaker 1: when it comes to establishing your worldview, I was curious 708 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:19,840 Speaker 1: what newspapers and magazines did you regularly read before you 709 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,800 Speaker 1: were tapped for this to stay informed and to understand 710 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,600 Speaker 1: I've wrote most of them again with a great appreciation 711 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,560 Speaker 1: for the press, for the media like well Coming specifically, 712 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,560 Speaker 1: I'm curious that you um all of them, any of 713 00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,839 Speaker 1: them that have been in front of me over all 714 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,839 Speaker 1: these years. Um, I have. I have a vast variety 715 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,759 Speaker 1: of sources where we get to our news to Alaska 716 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 1: isn't a foreign country where it's kind of suggested it 717 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,560 Speaker 1: seems like, Wow, how could you keep in touch with 718 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,719 Speaker 1: with the rest of Washington. Do you see me be 719 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:53,840 Speaker 1: thinking and doing when you live up there in Alaska? 720 00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:58,640 Speaker 1: Believe me, Alaska is like a microcosm of America. And 721 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,440 Speaker 1: the interesting thing is that earlier that day we saw 722 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:06,359 Speaker 1: Sarah Palin on her campaign plane reading a print copy 723 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:08,439 Speaker 1: of The New York Times, so I think at least 724 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,960 Speaker 1: occasionally she read newspapers. What I still can't figure out 725 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,319 Speaker 1: is why didn't she just tell the truth? Watching the 726 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:19,319 Speaker 1: fallout from this interview was unlike anything I'd ever experienced 727 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,319 Speaker 1: in years in the business. I mean, I knew we 728 00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:25,360 Speaker 1: had something big when we finished that first taping, but 729 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,680 Speaker 1: I couldn't imagine just how big it would become. Ultimately, 730 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:33,360 Speaker 1: the interviews sparked a really serious conversation in the media 731 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:37,080 Speaker 1: and among voters about whether Sarah Palin was qualified to 732 00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,480 Speaker 1: be vice president and whether the McCain campaign had truly 733 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:44,800 Speaker 1: done its diligence in vetting Sarah Palin. Here's Steve Schmidt again. 734 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 1: If you're the governor of the state, my assumption was 735 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:54,800 Speaker 1: you had a aptitude or a like of reading history, 736 00:45:55,400 --> 00:46:00,640 Speaker 1: government college policy, so you believed going and there was 737 00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,280 Speaker 1: a certain threshold of knowledge that she had to possess 738 00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:08,880 Speaker 1: as a governor of So you never said, do you 739 00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,360 Speaker 1: know where a rock is? Do you know what happened 740 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:17,680 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan? Do you know what a credit to false swop? Hm? 741 00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,120 Speaker 1: Do you understand the U? S? Tax system? And the 742 00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,759 Speaker 1: answer is no to any of it. But you know, 743 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,759 Speaker 1: I believe that she likely was somewhere in the mean 744 00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:29,759 Speaker 1: of basic knowledge as someone who's been around a lot 745 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,719 Speaker 1: of politicians and help prep them. Um I ran I 746 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,919 Speaker 1: ran two Supreme Court confirmations. Was John Roberts and Sam 747 00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:42,480 Speaker 1: Alito ready for those hearings on day one? Hell? No, right, 748 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:47,280 Speaker 1: But go through the process and you get there. Again, 749 00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,480 Speaker 1: the assumption is that there's a baseline there, and it 750 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,240 Speaker 1: was a terrible assumption. And you know, and I tend 751 00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,759 Speaker 1: to ten years later not make assumptions about anything. Now, 752 00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,279 Speaker 1: how could she be governor of Alaska and be so 753 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:07,279 Speaker 1: ignorant on so many issues. Why Jeffrey Dahmer people? I mean, 754 00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:11,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. I asked Frank Lentz about whether Palin 755 00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:15,239 Speaker 1: was qualified, and he said, being a candidate isn't all 756 00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:20,040 Speaker 1: about understanding policy. I think that having a real understanding 757 00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:27,440 Speaker 1: of people and their hopes and fears is as important 758 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:29,880 Speaker 1: as being smart and intellectual. And I'll give you a 759 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:34,600 Speaker 1: comparison Jimmy Carter. I don't. I think Jimmy Carter was 760 00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:38,000 Speaker 1: not a good president, and arguably intellectually, he is one 761 00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,480 Speaker 1: of the smartest we've had in our lifetime, but he 762 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,759 Speaker 1: had no real understanding, even though that's the essence that 763 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,480 Speaker 1: he gave off. I'm a peanut farmer, I'll know he wasn't. 764 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,839 Speaker 1: And I don't believe he really understood how people, how 765 00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:53,920 Speaker 1: they related, and how they understood, which is why he 766 00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:58,319 Speaker 1: gave so many speeches that nobody understood. But I think 767 00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,400 Speaker 1: that that is an example of someone who did not 768 00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,839 Speaker 1: understand the country that he wished to represent. And I 769 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,880 Speaker 1: do believe that Sarah Palin had a better understanding of 770 00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,600 Speaker 1: who we were as people, even though she's from Alaska. 771 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:15,280 Speaker 1: Does she know policy? Know? Does she know the details 772 00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,080 Speaker 1: behind this stuff? I don't think so, but I think 773 00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:22,400 Speaker 1: she understood and understands who we are as a country. 774 00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,239 Speaker 1: That really depends how you define who we are as 775 00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:30,919 Speaker 1: a country. I think she understood some Americans, not all Americans, 776 00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,680 Speaker 1: namely the Republican base, and Palin was picked in large 777 00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:38,360 Speaker 1: part because of fear of alienating that base, which was 778 00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:42,120 Speaker 1: of course a preview of their growing power in our politics. 779 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,960 Speaker 1: She was also painfully for the McCain campaign a stark 780 00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:51,600 Speaker 1: contrast with their country first all about experience messaging. She 781 00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:56,200 Speaker 1: was not a knowledgeable experience politician. Meanwhile, I think when 782 00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,959 Speaker 1: she was tapped Brian there were a lot of undecided 783 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:04,359 Speaker 1: its swing voters who who really hadn't figured out if 784 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,920 Speaker 1: they could support Barack Obama, perhaps feeling he was not 785 00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:12,520 Speaker 1: experienced enough, but weren't convinced they wanted John McCain either. 786 00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:17,279 Speaker 1: When Sarah Palin performed poorly during that interview, I think 787 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,000 Speaker 1: it not only cast her in a bad light, but 788 00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:25,960 Speaker 1: it made many voters question John McCain's judgment. Before we go, 789 00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:28,799 Speaker 1: I want to play one more thing, Nicole Wallace told 790 00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:33,160 Speaker 1: us Sarah Palin probably should have been tweeting and talking 791 00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,560 Speaker 1: to Fox News. I mean it worked for Donald Trump 792 00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,919 Speaker 1: eight years later. I don't really think Sarah Palin could 793 00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,239 Speaker 1: have avoided network news anchors in two thousand and eight. 794 00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,880 Speaker 1: In fact, it almost seems quaint to think that campaign 795 00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:50,040 Speaker 1: managers ten years ago really thought it was imperative for 796 00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:54,440 Speaker 1: candidates to be interviewed by a network news anchor, to 797 00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:58,360 Speaker 1: be challenged. But today not so much, Brian, Yeah, today, 798 00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:02,480 Speaker 1: why subject yourself to challenging questions and potentially a bad 799 00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:05,080 Speaker 1: performance when you could just go to a friendly outlet, 800 00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,360 Speaker 1: or not go to any outlet at all, just communicate 801 00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:10,719 Speaker 1: directly to your supporters. So clearly we have entered a 802 00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:14,440 Speaker 1: world where tough interviews might not matter, or might not 803 00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:19,360 Speaker 1: even happen at all. Does this mean I'm not needed, Brian, Well, 804 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,680 Speaker 1: you're definitely needed next week, Katie, for part two of 805 00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:27,440 Speaker 1: our special documentary That's Right, when Sarah goes rogue, McCain 806 00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:32,480 Speaker 1: heads south, and Donald Trump picks up the pieces. A 807 00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:36,000 Speaker 1: big thank you to our producers, Stephen Valentino and the 808 00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:39,040 Speaker 1: right Reverend John Delore, and thank you, of course to 809 00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:44,040 Speaker 1: our whole team at Stitcher. That's johnnah Palmer, Nora, Richie Gared, O'Connell, 810 00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:48,080 Speaker 1: Chris Bannon, many many others. Thanks also to Invisible Studios 811 00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,400 Speaker 1: and the Earwolf Studios in l A and Script Studios 812 00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,680 Speaker 1: in d C. They all helped out with recordings for 813 00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:56,480 Speaker 1: this episode. And finally thanks to Beth de Moz, my 814 00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:00,680 Speaker 1: phenomenal assistant who also keeps me fed, Very Wharton and 815 00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:03,920 Speaker 1: Julia Lewis, who handles all things social media for me. 816 00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,759 Speaker 1: Mark Phillips wrote our theme music. Katie Couric and I 817 00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,920 Speaker 1: are the show's executive producers. You'll find Katie all over 818 00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,520 Speaker 1: social media if you search Katie Current, especially Instagram, and 819 00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,560 Speaker 1: I tweet from at Goldsmith b We'll be back next 820 00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:19,680 Speaker 1: week for the second and final episode. Talk to you then, 821 00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:21,240 Speaker 1: and thanks so much for listening.