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Speaker 1: Hey, this Sanny and Samantha and what good to stuff?

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Speaker 1: When ever told your protection of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome to another edition of Monday Mini, where we

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Speaker 2: just do whatever we want essentially from ten to fifteen minutes,

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Speaker 2: maybe even twenty who knows.

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Speaker 3: And today is my turn.

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Speaker 2: So I had an interesting conversation just recently and which

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Speaker 2: it ended with them saying you're being too self deprecating,

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Speaker 2: and I had a moment of like, wait, so we've

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Speaker 2: been talking about this books that we've been going through.

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Speaker 2: I've talked plenty of how I have a lot of

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Speaker 2: anxiety when it comes to my speech and or being

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Speaker 2: on a podcast or being seen in general. Have a

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Speaker 2: huge anxiety about being live. So we whenever we're asked

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Speaker 2: to do anything live, I literally have a panic attack

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Speaker 2: at that point in time.

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Speaker 3: And there's a lot.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot that as someone who has gone through

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Speaker 2: a lot, I have many, many of mental health stuff

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Speaker 2: that I have to address constantly. And you know, you know, ID,

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Speaker 2: you and I have talked about the fact that for us,

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Speaker 2: because it's most likely trauma related, it's not something that's

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Speaker 2: just going to disappear. It's not something that we can

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Speaker 2: like let go of, or breathe through, or take a

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Speaker 2: medicine just get past it, I guess, because there's a

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Speaker 2: lot to these types of trauma that has a reactionary

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Speaker 2: thing in order to be self protecting, I guess in

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Speaker 2: a matter of ways, and self deprecation is something that

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Speaker 2: I do use as a way of coping and or

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Speaker 2: as a way of interacting with people, because I do

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Speaker 2: have a lot of anxiety around people, performance anxiety, all

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Speaker 2: the things.

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Speaker 3: I've got it.

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Speaker 2: As in fact, talking about this right now is making

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Speaker 2: my heart pound a little heavier, a little faster, to

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Speaker 2: the point that I also decrease my caffeine intake because

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Speaker 2: I think it affects how I perform or and or

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Speaker 2: the anxiety when I perform or do anything in general.

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Speaker 3: Anything, yeah, anything.

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Speaker 2: So it's interesting because I've talked to other women, as

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Speaker 2: in fact, past hosts have talked about their own issues

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Speaker 2: like this and the fact that they actually took something

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Speaker 2: for it before they would performed. I'm mean prescribed, not

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Speaker 2: just like self medicating. It really is prescribed.

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Speaker 3: I had a.

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Speaker 2: Friend who was an artist and had severe anxiety, and

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Speaker 2: she was prescribed like I believe blood dinners, but very

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Speaker 2: low dosage because it's supposed to be like you know,

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Speaker 2: the constriction of the heart makes it more like that

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Speaker 2: your nervous system reoverreact all these things. I'm sure people

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Speaker 2: are out there like, that's not how it goes. You

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Speaker 2: can let me know how it goes, but you know,

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Speaker 2: just a matter of fact that it is a thing.

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Speaker 2: And honestly, it's been more with women that actually talk

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Speaker 2: about it, not necessarily that have it, but I have

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Speaker 2: talked about it, like I've not talked to many men

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Speaker 2: who've talked about these things, or they don't acknowledge it.

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Speaker 3: Perhaps I don't know.

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Speaker 2: But again, so last night we did we had a

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Speaker 2: social event. I do not go out for social things,

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Speaker 2: and is again after the pandemic, I think I've gotten

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Speaker 2: so much worse. I am that type of introvert that

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Speaker 2: can perform and socialize and be on it as you

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Speaker 2: would say, if I need to be, but it is

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Speaker 2: so exhausting for me that I have to go home

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Speaker 2: for like a couple of days by myself to recharge

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Speaker 2: because it took a lot of energy for me to

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Speaker 2: get to that point. I think my threshold for that

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Speaker 2: has gotten smaller.

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Speaker 3: So I'm a little bit anxious about that.

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Speaker 2: But a part of the being on thing is self deprecating,

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Speaker 2: and that term did come out in a way that

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Speaker 2: I was talking about being very nervous about doing something,

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Speaker 2: or doing the audiobook. When it comes to podcasting, Christina,

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Speaker 2: our super producer, is amazing and very patient in making

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Speaker 2: sure that we don't sound like battling, you know, incoherent people,

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Speaker 2: and I love her for that. So knowing that she

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Speaker 2: does that makes me feel a lot better because she

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Speaker 2: does make us sound good. It's just me and you,

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Speaker 2: right Annie, when we record, there's no one else president

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Speaker 2: I am in a dark room essentially with Annie, and

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Speaker 2: so therefore I feel a lot better, or at least

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Speaker 2: a little more confident. And I still stumble quite a

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Speaker 2: bit even when it's two of us, but I'm not

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Speaker 2: as anxious about that. But so, we were talking about

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Speaker 2: doing the book where we were going to be in

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Speaker 2: a legit studio with a producer in front of us

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Speaker 2: that we've never worked with, that this is their expertise.

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Speaker 2: They work with actors, they work with voice actors, they

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Speaker 2: work with professional readers, and then also having someone in

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Speaker 2: our ear directing us and being told podcasters are really

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Speaker 2: surprised by this process because it's so different from podcasting.

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Speaker 2: So all of that makes me really, really, really anxious

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Speaker 2: reading a book again. I still have the you know

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Speaker 2: you can't do this in the back of my head.

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Speaker 2: So I was just talking about how I was very

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Speaker 2: anxious and talking about the differences and why I'm anxious,

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Speaker 2: and because it was kind of a flip that you

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Speaker 2: can do this, and I'm like, yeah, you think you can,

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Speaker 2: but you don't understand that leading up to this is

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Speaker 2: making me feel so over the top anxious. The building up,

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Speaker 2: the expectations in my head, the fear of failure, it's

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Speaker 2: right on top of me. And I know you feel

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Speaker 2: this too. To the point that we've talked about that

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Speaker 2: I think I maybe have symptoms of knocker websy because

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Speaker 2: I've been exhausted for no reason. I've just been sleepy

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Speaker 2: the entire last week, to the point my partner's like,

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Speaker 2: you were sleeping more and I'm like, yeah, yeah, this

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Speaker 2: is not a good sign. I think this is happening

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Speaker 2: because of these things, and I found that interesting when

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Speaker 2: they're like, oh, you're just being self deprecating. I can't

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Speaker 2: deal with this and walked away, and I kind of

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Speaker 2: had a moment of like being pissed off, and I

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Speaker 2: was like, okay, I get it. I get and people

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Speaker 2: don't want to be around to someone who is negative

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Speaker 2: all the time. And I have gotten that accusation, and

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Speaker 2: they're not wrong. I am a pessimistic individual when it

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Speaker 2: comes to things. Part of that is that, you know,

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Speaker 2: because I am afraid to fail.

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Speaker 3: So therefore, if I.

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Speaker 2: Bring it out and I am wrong and I don't fail,

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Speaker 2: then that's a great surprise. But if I do fail,

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Speaker 2: you're not surprised, and I already set that up kind

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Speaker 2: of like double whammy. Like being a pessimist to me

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Speaker 2: has always been the way to go because if it

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Speaker 2: goes better than you think, then you're going to be rewarded.

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Speaker 2: If it goes as you expected, then you just met

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Speaker 2: your expectations. So there you go, win when but not

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Speaker 2: when when type of moment. And it also made me

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Speaker 2: think about the fact that what is self deprecation? Where

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Speaker 2: does it come from? Who uses it?

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Speaker 3: And I did.

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Speaker 2: I found some articles that I think is interesting because

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Speaker 2: I my Google, I said, hey, what's trauma, self deprecation?

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Speaker 3: Women?

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Speaker 2: Those are my key words. And here's something that one

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Speaker 2: of the articles said talking about women and self deprecation

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Speaker 2: and how they use it. It says part of the

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Speaker 2: reason that might be used is because of trauma. So

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Speaker 2: here's the article. It says trauma and survivors of many

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Speaker 2: different forms of trauma such as life threatening accidents, events,

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Speaker 2: sexual abuse, emotional trauma, and generational trauma typically have low

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Speaker 2: self esteem before trauma, and individual usually believes in their

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Speaker 2: ability to exercise good judgment and stay safe. However, after

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Speaker 2: a traumatic experience, much of that trust is destroyed, which

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Speaker 2: can leave the person to feel doubt, fear, helplessness, shame,

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Speaker 2: and feeling they are to blame all eroding self esteem.

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Speaker 2: So I thought that was an interesting article because it's true,

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Speaker 2: just as if like the blank canvas thing everybody comes

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Speaker 2: out with outside of mental health stuff, the idea that

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Speaker 2: you are confident in yourself where you don't know that

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Speaker 2: you can't do it, that's not a thing. But if

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Speaker 2: you have been decimated your emotions, your safety, then.

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Speaker 3: That is destroyed.

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Speaker 2: Whatever was there, it's probably been damaged by whatever traumas

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Speaker 2: you've gone through. A lot of people, including myself, as

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Speaker 2: a way of defensiveness is to be self deprecating because

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Speaker 2: at the very least you control that narrative no matter

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Speaker 2: how negative it sounds. And I thought that was interesting

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Speaker 2: as a way of having a conversation of like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I get that this can.

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Speaker 3: Be really wearing and you really want.

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Speaker 2: To correct it, but having someone immediately be like, stop

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Speaker 2: doing that to yourself. It's not really helpful. It's not

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Speaker 2: something that comes off with love. You're being criticized for

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Speaker 2: a defense mechanism that you built to survive trauma. Now,

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Speaker 2: should we go through just hating ourselves and go through

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Speaker 2: self deprecation?

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Speaker 3: Of course not.

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Speaker 2: That's not what I'm saying at all. But the conversation

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Speaker 2: also comes back to the fact that self deprecation may

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Speaker 2: not be as bad as everybody wants to say that

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Speaker 2: it is. And I say this in like a way

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Speaker 2: of understanding how we cope. So if this is something

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Speaker 2: that we have to use to cope, it is a

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Speaker 2: survival tactic once again, and that needs to be understood

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Speaker 2: and not dismissed. There was a conversation, and I think

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Speaker 2: this was applying to men more so than women, because

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Speaker 2: there was a comparison about the fact that when men

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Speaker 2: use self deprecation, they're rewarded as being humble, and when

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Speaker 2: women use self deprecation, they are showing that they are lesser,

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Speaker 2: they're proving the lesser of themselves. So I found that

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Speaker 2: interesting as well. So when I did see articles, it

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Speaker 2: says self deprecation may not be as bad as you think.

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Speaker 2: It was referring to the fact that it can seem

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Speaker 2: like it's humility. You're able to lead well with self

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Speaker 2: deprecation because you're able to show your own faults and

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Speaker 2: show how to lead that way. So of course this

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Speaker 2: was applied to men in typical order. That was one

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Speaker 2: article when a woman was talking about a comedy and

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Speaker 2: that fact that she put the you know, like had

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Speaker 2: a moment in Instagram and it was self deprecating, and

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Speaker 2: many people came in like, you're not this, You're not that, No,

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Speaker 2: you're wonderful, all these things, and then one person saying,

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Speaker 2: you know, when you do this, you really make yourself

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Speaker 2: look bad and women look bad, which pissed her off,

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Speaker 2: and I understandably because she's like, but this is not

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Speaker 2: about you. This is about me and the way that

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Speaker 2: I feel, the way I needed to express myself today,

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Speaker 2: and the self deprecation may not be what you think

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Speaker 2: it is, just because I use words that seem like harsh,

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Speaker 2: it may be a legitimate thing, like I have to

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Speaker 2: use this to myself in order to know that I'm.

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Speaker 3: Okay, weirdly enough.

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Speaker 2: So there was a whole level of that process that

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Speaker 2: came through because I was like, you know, I get

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Speaker 2: it because I will always use self deprecation. That is

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Speaker 2: not something that I will ever be able to let

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Speaker 2: go of ever. That won't be a thing. But being

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Speaker 2: even if it is in the most negative light, if

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Speaker 2: I'm doing it in the like I am really self

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Speaker 2: harming by using this thing. Having someone come at me

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Speaker 2: and tell me I'm wrong and I'm doing something wrong

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Speaker 2: not helpful. And I really had that moment like, Wow,

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Speaker 2: I'm not again being a negative Nelly.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, Nelly's out there in the world. Your name Nelly.

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Speaker 2: It's not rolling around so angry at me.

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Speaker 3: I cannot believe you pulled that out of a hat.

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Speaker 3: That was one of the first I thought, to be fair,

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Speaker 3: I do think of Nelly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's this whole conversation that like, we really need

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Speaker 2: to understand and and have a deeper understanding of trauma

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Speaker 2: and what it is and and the fact that people

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Speaker 2: do cope differently and being dismissive of it, especially when

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Speaker 2: it comes to anxiety, and especially when it comes to

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Speaker 2: something that I am really nervous about, like it is

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to take something to sleep the night before,

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Speaker 2: I think prescribed, prescribe something because I think it's overwhelming

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Speaker 2: for me, even though after it, I'm gonna think that

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Speaker 2: it's so silly that I was that freaked out.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: But to this point, this is where I am, and

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Speaker 2: to dismiss it as if I'm wrong does not help.

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Speaker 2: Only it only builds up the anxiety I already had.

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Speaker 1: Right, there's a lot of things in this conversation that

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Speaker 1: remind me of other things we've talked about around, like,

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Speaker 1: for instance, filler words and saying sorry and how women that,

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Speaker 1: and then the articles that come out that are you know,

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Speaker 1: largely from written by men and or just from a

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Speaker 1: very corporate perspective that it's like, don't do that. It

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Speaker 1: makes you look weak, it puts you in a weaker position,

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Speaker 1: and it's like it's not necessarily we're once again just

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Speaker 1: putting how men do things at the top and when

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Speaker 1: how women do them, were ignoring or judging them by

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Speaker 1: how men use them. And this is all very gendered

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Speaker 1: and stereotypical, but it's true, like with the way women

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Speaker 1: say sorry has been different than the way men do it.

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Speaker 1: And it is a very conversational thing, and it is

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Speaker 1: very much just of like hey, I'm with you, I

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Speaker 1: see you, or it is a very something from trauma

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Speaker 1: of like hey, I mean no harm. Like there's a

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Speaker 1: bunch of other things going on that can't fit into

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Speaker 1: like a five point business art that's like, hey, stop

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Speaker 1: doing that because they'll never get.

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Speaker 2: A raise, right, But that's the other part of that

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Speaker 2: is like it's not what we have said, it's just

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Speaker 2: just existing that in itself has already given us, you know, disadvantage,

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Speaker 2: so it doesn't matter what we do and playing the

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Speaker 2: game and having that conversation because if you're too confident,

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Speaker 2: then you may not get that either, and then you

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Speaker 2: become the And it's interesting too because the same conversation

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Speaker 2: about being humble and all that they talked about, women

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Speaker 2: use self deprecation to actually take up space like this

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Speaker 2: is the way that they actually are able to talk

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Speaker 2: about themselves and something about themselves. And I'm like exactly

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Speaker 2: that this is a bigger part, like I'm able to

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Speaker 2: express how I feel and how anxious I am through

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Speaker 2: this kind of conversational way that it seems harmful sometimes,

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Speaker 2: and it can be harmful sometimes. I mean I think

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Speaker 2: anything can be harmful. Being too confident can be harmful.

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Speaker 2: But like having that conversation that maybe women are using

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Speaker 2: self deprecation to take up space, whether it's the right

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Speaker 2: way or the wrong way, but they're doing something in

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Speaker 2: order to balance out that weight essentially, And I thought

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Speaker 2: that was interesting too, because like exactly it's it may

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Speaker 2: not be the way you would want it to go,

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Speaker 2: but they're doing it right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, And I mean I think that there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of points to that too, of just all the

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Speaker 1: other things we get told of. You know, you can't

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Speaker 1: be too confident, and being self deprecating is a way

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Speaker 1: to take up space in that. And because you can't

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Speaker 1: be too confident, so here is a way I can

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Speaker 1: like talk about myself right but not be the right

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Speaker 1: It's just like so much going on of kind of

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Speaker 1: very strategic and like almost instinctive of like I have well,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't. I couldn't get this when I was confident,

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Speaker 1: So let me try this way.

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Speaker 2: Right, And that's the thing. It's like, I think we

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Speaker 2: have to be really careful. And again there's a difference

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Speaker 2: being harmful and intervening because you are worried because of

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Speaker 2: whatever reason, but also the tactic that you use. Are

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Speaker 2: you pushing someone away, are you pulling someone in? Or

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Speaker 2: are you telling them to be quiet? Essentially, and that

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Speaker 2: kind of happened if it felt like.

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Speaker 3: I needed to be quiet mm hmm.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, those are my thoughts.

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Speaker 3: All right, there you go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want more information about some of the

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Speaker 2: articles I've been reading, uh, let us know.

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Speaker 3: We'll definitely send it to you.

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Speaker 2: But again, if you do look up all of those keywords,

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Speaker 2: it does have to do list of how not to

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Speaker 2: do that and how harmful it can be. And again

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying it's not, because yes, there's there's a

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Speaker 2: level for sure, But I also think there is the

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Speaker 2: other side that we don't talk about too often about

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Speaker 2: what why, why we do this and why we should

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Speaker 2: accept it to a certain degree.

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Speaker 1: Right, yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, I tell you before

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Speaker 1: when we were talking about this. These parties always bring

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Speaker 1: out we're not used to interacting with anyone anymore.

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Speaker 2: It's a whole social project now.

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Speaker 1: It is our next party, well, what will be discussing

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Speaker 1: so well, listeners, If you have any thoughts about this,

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Speaker 1: you can let us know. You can email us a

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Speaker 1: Stepania mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find

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Speaker 1: us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram

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Speaker 1: and TikTok at stuff I've Never Told You. We're also

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Speaker 1: on YouTube. We do have a book coming out. You

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Speaker 1: can re order it at stuff you should read books

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Speaker 1: dot com. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina,

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Speaker 1: our executive producer Maya, and our contruder Joey.

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Speaker 3: Y'all are amazing.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, yes, and thanks to you for listening. Step

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Speaker 1: I Never told you. Restriction of I Heart Radio. For

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Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out

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