WEBVTT - Adam Duritz 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:23.756 Pushkin, Hey everyone, Today, Broken Records producer Leah Rose talks 0:00:23.796 --> 0:00:27.876 to Adam Duritz, the lead singer of Counting Crows. Adam 0:00:27.956 --> 0:00:31.436 Durretz is no stranger to the spotlight. Counting Crow's nineteen 0:00:31.476 --> 0:00:34.916 ninety three debut album, August and Everything After sold over 0:00:35.036 --> 0:00:38.956 seven million copies in the US. Singles released from the album, 0:00:38.996 --> 0:00:42.916 including Mister Jones around Here, dominated radio and MTV at 0:00:42.916 --> 0:00:46.316 the time, but all the exposure wasn't great for the band, 0:00:46.396 --> 0:00:48.796 and according to Durret's it led critics to focus more 0:00:48.836 --> 0:00:52.076 on Durrett's star studed dating life than the band's music. 0:00:53.156 --> 0:00:55.716 They've continued to release music over the last three decades. 0:00:55.756 --> 0:00:58.436 In this month, Counting Crows put out their latest album 0:00:58.596 --> 0:01:02.756 called Butter Miracle The Complete Suites. Today, we'll hear Adam 0:01:02.836 --> 0:01:05.396 Duritt's talk in depth with Lee Rose about his lifelong 0:01:05.436 --> 0:01:08.716 struggle with mental health and about how his disassociative disorder 0:01:08.756 --> 0:01:12.996 has him hacked his ability to connect with people off stage. 0:01:14.756 --> 0:01:24.036 This is Broken Record, real musicians, real conversations. If you 0:01:24.036 --> 0:01:26.236 want to see the full video of this conversation, visit 0:01:26.316 --> 0:01:30.476 YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast. Now Here's Leo 0:01:30.556 --> 0:01:31.996 Rose with Adam Durantz. 0:01:33.236 --> 0:01:36.836 So how is it feeling being back in the promo world. 0:01:37.876 --> 0:01:41.996 Oh, it's cool. I am excited. Yeah, I mean it's 0:01:42.036 --> 0:01:45.996 a I have a weird job, and it's not the 0:01:46.076 --> 0:01:49.596 kind of job that you expect to get to do 0:01:49.756 --> 0:01:54.756 for too long. Totally, you hope, but it doesn't usually 0:01:54.756 --> 0:01:57.756 work out this way. So I think it's pretty cool. 0:01:57.836 --> 0:02:04.036 I mean it's been thirty two years since my first promos, really, 0:02:04.956 --> 0:02:08.516 and I'm still here. Yeah. I think that's very cool. 0:02:09.556 --> 0:02:12.076 I've been a rock star for a long time and 0:02:12.236 --> 0:02:14.476 I really dig it. So every time we go back 0:02:14.516 --> 0:02:18.476 to do this stuff, yeah, I get a little thrill. Oh. 0:02:18.556 --> 0:02:21.396 I mean, I don't know. It's like I'm still making 0:02:21.436 --> 0:02:24.676 records and people still want to talk to us about it. Yeah. 0:02:24.876 --> 0:02:29.276 We could be we could have self sabotized ourselves into 0:02:29.316 --> 0:02:32.116 the grave by now. We haven't and everyone could just 0:02:32.156 --> 0:02:34.516 be so bored that they don't want to talk to us. 0:02:34.636 --> 0:02:38.836 And that hasn't happened either. So yeah, it's good stuff. Yeah. 0:02:38.876 --> 0:02:41.116 I was talking to Billy Corgan recently and he was 0:02:41.156 --> 0:02:44.996 saying that most bands, or most artists who get signed, 0:02:45.676 --> 0:02:48.036 it's expected that they have four years. 0:02:48.396 --> 0:02:49.916 Oh really, that's the math on that. 0:02:50.836 --> 0:02:54.356 Yeah, you know, it's already extremely difficult to get signed 0:02:54.396 --> 0:02:57.196 at all, but to have a career that spans three 0:02:57.276 --> 0:02:58.876 decades is pretty phenomenal. 0:02:59.876 --> 0:03:04.036 I think he overestimated that at four years. Maybe you'll 0:03:04.076 --> 0:03:06.596 spend four years on the label. But I mean, I 0:03:06.596 --> 0:03:10.516 would think the greatest graveyard for bands is signed bands 0:03:10.716 --> 0:03:12.956 like that. You get in there and then they just 0:03:13.036 --> 0:03:16.236 sheled you or they you know, nothing happens. I don't know, 0:03:16.276 --> 0:03:20.636 it seems like anyways, it's not great to not have 0:03:20.716 --> 0:03:24.516 that happen to you totally. Although isn't it cool if 0:03:24.516 --> 0:03:26.756 he is related to Bill Burr? 0:03:28.116 --> 0:03:30.236 But I mean to ask him about that because it 0:03:30.316 --> 0:03:33.116 feels like such a touchy subject. But they do look 0:03:33.156 --> 0:03:33.876 a lot alike. 0:03:34.556 --> 0:03:36.636 Well, I think it's a touchy subject because he sprung 0:03:36.636 --> 0:03:38.836 it on them like without telling you. 0:03:38.956 --> 0:03:39.596 I'm Bill Burr. 0:03:39.716 --> 0:03:42.676 I'm Bill Burr. Yeah, yeah, which is weird. It's a 0:03:42.716 --> 0:03:43.556 weird thing to do. 0:03:44.076 --> 0:03:45.476 It's very like Jerry Springer. 0:03:46.076 --> 0:03:49.236 Yeah, and uh, I can understand why Bill Burr would 0:03:49.236 --> 0:03:52.316 have been a little annoyed about that. But yes, fucking 0:03:52.316 --> 0:03:54.076 Bill Burr, I'd like to be related to Bill Burr 0:03:54.196 --> 0:03:55.916 was talking about all kinds of shit. I think that 0:03:55.916 --> 0:03:56.516 would be great. 0:03:58.076 --> 0:04:01.236 Yeah, I know, that's the craziest thing. It's so funny. 0:04:02.036 --> 0:04:04.636 Yeah, I love that. 0:04:04.836 --> 0:04:07.356 I love your connection to comedy too. I watched your 0:04:07.476 --> 0:04:11.196 uh you first have you only been on Rogan once? 0:04:12.276 --> 0:04:12.796 Uh? 0:04:12.876 --> 0:04:15.996 Yeah, okay, yeah, I watched that episode and I just 0:04:16.036 --> 0:04:19.716 thought it was cool. How just the connection you have 0:04:19.836 --> 0:04:21.996 sounds like you're friends with a lot of comedians, with 0:04:22.076 --> 0:04:23.916 Jeff Ross and some other guys. 0:04:24.796 --> 0:04:27.916 Yeah, Jeff, I know Jeff Well. I was friends with 0:04:27.916 --> 0:04:32.636 Bob Sagett forever and Bob introduced me to Jeff and 0:04:32.676 --> 0:04:35.076 we became very close friends. We went and did a 0:04:35.156 --> 0:04:40.036 USO tour together. But also, for me, comedians are the 0:04:42.436 --> 0:04:44.916 that is the highest form of live performance to me, 0:04:45.116 --> 0:04:50.116 like they are they are the tightrope walkers. Like I 0:04:50.836 --> 0:04:52.996 love live performance. I love going to the theater. I 0:04:53.036 --> 0:04:56.876 love bands. I admire anyone that can go up there 0:04:56.916 --> 0:04:59.076 and really do it in front of people for real, 0:04:59.516 --> 0:05:03.596 and nobody does it like comedians because they are more 0:05:04.236 --> 0:05:06.156 depending on audience to any of us, I don't care 0:05:06.196 --> 0:05:10.276 what happens in the audience. But but I mean, I 0:05:10.316 --> 0:05:12.156 just think comedians are incredible. I've been obsessed with that 0:05:12.196 --> 0:05:13.956 my whole life. You know, growing up in San Francisco 0:05:14.116 --> 0:05:16.396 was a big comedy tea and I saw went to 0:05:16.396 --> 0:05:19.436 see comedy all the time as a kid, and you know, 0:05:19.436 --> 0:05:21.876 a young adult, and I've just always been obsessed with it, 0:05:21.916 --> 0:05:24.036 and you know, getting to know so many of these 0:05:24.076 --> 0:05:31.236 guys A huge fan of, like Alex Edelman and Microbiglia, 0:05:31.316 --> 0:05:34.516 guys who write these long form pieces that I think 0:05:34.556 --> 0:05:37.036 are so I've been obsessed with micro Biglia forever. 0:05:38.276 --> 0:05:40.596 You said that you don't care about the audience's reaction, 0:05:40.756 --> 0:05:43.236 you're sort of just, you know, I imagine you're just 0:05:43.236 --> 0:05:46.196 doing your own thing for you. But correct me if 0:05:46.196 --> 0:05:48.756 I'm wrong about that. But does it seem like in 0:05:48.796 --> 0:05:52.836 your conversations they care about the audience. Are they also 0:05:52.956 --> 0:05:56.156 sort of just in their own experience? 0:05:56.756 --> 0:06:00.436 Well, it's much more symbiotic, like when you're a community. 0:06:00.516 --> 0:06:02.196 I just shouldn't say I really don't care. It's not that. 0:06:02.316 --> 0:06:06.836 But I could play with a dead, silent audience. When 0:06:06.836 --> 0:06:08.756 the audience is really responsive, it's the most it's the 0:06:08.796 --> 0:06:13.916 greatest in the world. But if they're not, we could 0:06:13.956 --> 0:06:15.636 still play just as good as show. And in fact, 0:06:15.676 --> 0:06:18.556 you can't be too affected by it because the truth is, 0:06:18.556 --> 0:06:21.396 all you can really see is the first few rows, 0:06:22.036 --> 0:06:26.836 So everything after that. Let's say the first three rows 0:06:26.876 --> 0:06:30.396 are sleeping, but there's ten thousand people behind them, So 0:06:30.436 --> 0:06:32.956 you can't like decide to suck that night because you know, 0:06:32.996 --> 0:06:35.276 as a musician, you've got to be able to just 0:06:35.316 --> 0:06:37.596 play no matter what the audience is doing, it doesn't matter. 0:06:38.116 --> 0:06:40.876 But for a comedian, you need the response because the 0:06:40.956 --> 0:06:45.476 laps are the you know, the arc that the yes, 0:06:45.876 --> 0:06:48.956 it's part of the arc of the performance, and we're 0:06:48.956 --> 0:06:51.356 not dependent on that, so they have to ride that 0:06:51.636 --> 0:06:56.236 in a way that is I think terrifying, you know, 0:06:56.676 --> 0:07:01.356 you know, like I've done some like with Jeff and Bob. 0:07:01.596 --> 0:07:03.436 They both used to have me come play piano and 0:07:03.476 --> 0:07:08.996 we would banter yes you know, and it's incredibly satisfying 0:07:09.236 --> 0:07:13.316 get laughs, but terrifying because you don't you know, may 0:07:13.356 --> 0:07:18.156 not you know, And having done a comedy tour with Jeff, 0:07:18.276 --> 0:07:21.116 like where we were going to USO bases where it's 0:07:21.116 --> 0:07:24.916 like and we were going to launch stool and like 0:07:24.956 --> 0:07:28.156 the hospitals really where that where the first places people 0:07:28.196 --> 0:07:30.876 were transported and these these particular hospitals dealt with a 0:07:30.876 --> 0:07:34.516 lot of PTSD uh and a lot of like really 0:07:34.556 --> 0:07:38.036 traumatic shit. And it was a lot of the people, 0:07:38.196 --> 0:07:42.116 the doctors and the patients who were dealing with severe trauma. Wow, 0:07:42.276 --> 0:07:45.076 you know. And it would be like Colin Kane would 0:07:45.076 --> 0:07:46.996 do a set as comedian, Sarah Tiana would do a 0:07:46.996 --> 0:07:49.236 set as a comedian. The whole thing's hosted by Stewie Stone, 0:07:49.396 --> 0:07:51.916 and then I come on, and then Jeff and Robert 0:07:51.996 --> 0:07:56.196 Klein and so it's like funny, funny, funny death March, 0:07:56.676 --> 0:07:59.076 you know, Like, because I'm not a very good piano player, 0:07:59.156 --> 0:08:01.876 the only things I could play were like the most 0:08:01.956 --> 0:08:05.876 Maudlin status County Cross Hunt. Oh, but it was you know, 0:08:05.876 --> 0:08:09.636 I had to kind of like be fun too. I 0:08:09.676 --> 0:08:12.916 don't know, it was really challenging and cool. Yeah. 0:08:13.156 --> 0:08:16.556 Yeah, Wow, that must have been such an incredible experience 0:08:17.196 --> 0:08:21.876 an experience. Yeah, I've heard you say that the place 0:08:21.876 --> 0:08:24.276 that you're most comfortable is on stage in front of 0:08:24.316 --> 0:08:27.596 an audience or playing with a band. When did you 0:08:27.676 --> 0:08:30.436 first realize that and what was that realization like? For you? 0:08:31.436 --> 0:08:34.516 It was more about being uncomfortable in the rest of 0:08:34.556 --> 0:08:38.916 my life generally, you know, and then finding that there's 0:08:38.956 --> 0:08:41.196 this thing I could do that made a place for 0:08:41.276 --> 0:08:45.356 me in the world. You know that, Like I had 0:08:45.436 --> 0:08:49.156 real concerns when I was younger with how I was 0:08:49.196 --> 0:08:51.476 going to take care of myself. You know, I knew 0:08:51.476 --> 0:08:54.676 that I was dealing with some pretty severe mental illness, 0:08:54.716 --> 0:08:57.196 even if I didn't know what it was then, and 0:08:57.636 --> 0:08:58.756 I didn't know how I was going to make that 0:08:58.796 --> 0:09:00.916 transition to being an adult. You know, It's one thing 0:09:00.916 --> 0:09:02.516 when you got to go to class every day, however 0:09:02.516 --> 0:09:05.116 difficult it is, But when you have to just make 0:09:05.156 --> 0:09:08.196 a life for yourself and you have all this handicap 0:09:08.276 --> 0:09:12.476 going on, all this different cult tea, you know, I 0:09:12.476 --> 0:09:14.516 didn't know how that was going to work. And then 0:09:14.556 --> 0:09:17.276 I found this thing I do that makes it all possible. 0:09:18.556 --> 0:09:22.796 I mean, I think it was that writing songs gave 0:09:22.876 --> 0:09:27.996 me a way to process life, and it also was 0:09:28.036 --> 0:09:34.316 a way that other people were drawn to. I don't 0:09:34.316 --> 0:09:36.316 think I was comfortable on stage right away or anything 0:09:36.356 --> 0:09:38.276 like that. In fact, I know I was very uncomfortable 0:09:38.276 --> 0:09:40.996 on stage right away at the beginning. It took a 0:09:40.996 --> 0:09:44.796 long time, but I think it's some people. I think 0:09:45.116 --> 0:09:47.156 that comment really came out of someone asking me if 0:09:47.156 --> 0:09:49.316 I ever had stage fright, and I said no, man, Yes, 0:09:49.476 --> 0:09:51.796 I have rest of the day fright, you know, like 0:09:51.796 --> 0:09:54.236 like the stage is fine. I don't think I actually 0:09:54.276 --> 0:09:56.756 said like I'm more comfortable on stage, but it came 0:09:56.756 --> 0:09:59.476 from somebody asking me, though, do you ever get stage fright? 0:09:59.516 --> 0:10:01.516 And I was like, oh no, no, no, stage is fine. 0:10:01.836 --> 0:10:04.156 Stage is great. You know. It's like it's the rest 0:10:04.196 --> 0:10:07.516 of life that I have always struggled with. Stage is 0:10:07.596 --> 0:10:09.676 like I know what I'm supposed to do up there. 0:10:09.956 --> 0:10:13.956 I'm gonna improvise and you know, but I know there's 0:10:13.996 --> 0:10:16.356 like a map. I even have a set list. It 0:10:16.356 --> 0:10:19.116 tells me what's coming next, you know, like, and I 0:10:19.156 --> 0:10:23.716 am free to explore and expand on everything in that 0:10:24.036 --> 0:10:27.116 list of things. Not that it's easy or anything, but 0:10:27.156 --> 0:10:30.516 it's it's it's comfortable. I know what to do there. 0:10:30.756 --> 0:10:33.556 It's not it's not like walking into a party full 0:10:33.556 --> 0:10:35.316 of people and I have no idea what to say 0:10:35.356 --> 0:10:37.236 to people. But I do know what to do when 0:10:37.236 --> 0:10:40.516 I walk on stage, you know. And I'm not that 0:10:40.556 --> 0:10:44.556 I'm never nervous or anything, but it's such a I'm 0:10:44.596 --> 0:10:48.076 so much more comfortable there than I am in the 0:10:48.116 --> 0:10:52.636 rest of life that there's like no comparison. So stage 0:10:52.636 --> 0:10:55.836 fright is not much of a problem anymore. I definitely 0:10:55.876 --> 0:10:57.516 had it at times at first, you know. 0:10:57.636 --> 0:11:01.556 Yeah, yeah, I can see why. 0:11:00.356 --> 0:11:04.796 My first few gigs I lost. The first three gigs 0:11:04.876 --> 0:11:06.876 I played in my first real band as an adult, 0:11:07.716 --> 0:11:10.236 I completely lost my voice that day of the show. 0:11:10.396 --> 0:11:13.516 I woke up with no voice, no idea why it happened. 0:11:14.036 --> 0:11:16.316 I had to chew I had to bring ginger root 0:11:16.396 --> 0:11:19.076 on stage, cut it up and chew it and swallow 0:11:19.116 --> 0:11:20.516 it during the show because it was the only thing 0:11:20.556 --> 0:11:22.756 that got my voice back. And it just happened for 0:11:22.836 --> 0:11:24.876 like three gigs right at the beginning of my career. 0:11:25.516 --> 0:11:25.956 That's a lot. 0:11:25.996 --> 0:11:27.756 And then it stopped, by the way, at the time, 0:11:27.876 --> 0:11:28.996 like three gigs is a lot. 0:11:29.196 --> 0:11:31.196 That's it was and out of nowhere, and especially when 0:11:31.196 --> 0:11:33.516 they're your first gigs. Yes, you know, I'd played gigs 0:11:33.516 --> 0:11:36.036 as a kid in a band, like when I was thirteen. 0:11:36.076 --> 0:11:38.916 But now I'm like in my mid twenties and I've 0:11:38.916 --> 0:11:41.276 got a band and we're playing my songs and I 0:11:41.356 --> 0:11:44.156 go to sing and no, I forget go to sing. 0:11:44.276 --> 0:11:47.476 I wake up that day with no voice, and I 0:11:47.516 --> 0:11:50.036 go through the whole day. I can't talk, I can't 0:11:50.036 --> 0:11:52.796 make it's the weirdest thing. It happened for three gigs 0:11:52.796 --> 0:11:55.876 and then it stopped, you know, so I know, so 0:11:55.956 --> 0:11:59.476 I I didn't feel like I was afraid, But that's 0:11:59.476 --> 0:12:02.956 some kind of weird psychosomatic reaction, you know. Yeah. 0:12:03.236 --> 0:12:05.276 Was that something you've talked to your parents about when 0:12:05.316 --> 0:12:07.876 you were growing up, about feeling uncomfortable in any of 0:12:07.996 --> 0:12:11.196 like the mental illness you were experiencing. Were you open 0:12:11.236 --> 0:12:13.196 with your parents about that not? 0:12:13.996 --> 0:12:16.276 Early on, I just don't think I recognized it. I 0:12:16.316 --> 0:12:18.676 just thought that's what life was like, and it was weird, 0:12:18.716 --> 0:12:21.236 and I was awkward, and we moved around a lot 0:12:21.916 --> 0:12:23.876 early on, so I didn't know any It wasn't like 0:12:23.916 --> 0:12:25.716 everybody else in my class who knew everybody. They'd known 0:12:25.716 --> 0:12:28.556 each other since kindergarten. I had usually just gotten there, 0:12:29.676 --> 0:12:32.636 you know. That was true in first grade, third grade, 0:12:32.716 --> 0:12:35.596 fourth grade, fifth grade were all new cities, you know, 0:12:36.076 --> 0:12:39.436 and then seventh grade was a new school. So you know, 0:12:39.476 --> 0:12:41.796 it was a lot of experiences where I'd only known 0:12:41.836 --> 0:12:46.076 anybody for one or two years. So I just chalked 0:12:46.076 --> 0:12:49.316 it up to being shy, you know. It wasn't until 0:12:50.796 --> 0:12:54.396 I started having some more sort of hallucinatory experiences in 0:12:54.796 --> 0:12:58.196 the latter parts of high school that I realized this 0:12:58.236 --> 0:13:00.396 isn't supposed to happen, This is not that. This is 0:13:00.436 --> 0:13:07.156 weird and scary and kind of psychedelic and not cool. 0:13:07.396 --> 0:13:11.036 And then I went to some doctor and talk to 0:13:11.076 --> 0:13:15.476 my parents and yeah, but I was probably a junior 0:13:15.476 --> 0:13:16.676 in high school when that happened. 0:13:16.836 --> 0:13:17.276 Wow. 0:13:17.556 --> 0:13:20.756 Yeah, so it was started then with really you know, 0:13:22.196 --> 0:13:24.716 the more disturbing parts of it. Now I can look 0:13:24.716 --> 0:13:26.356 back on and see, Okay, that was happening to me 0:13:26.396 --> 0:13:29.236 in first grade. I can see what it was. The 0:13:29.276 --> 0:13:31.876 weirdness and the difficulty and being inside my own head, 0:13:32.916 --> 0:13:35.076 all the things that make up a dissociative disorder. I 0:13:35.076 --> 0:13:38.156 could see them now. Yeah, right back in first grade, 0:13:38.236 --> 0:13:41.516 you know. But I didn't. I didn't know that then. 0:13:41.836 --> 0:13:43.596 You know, you're not really thinking about that stuff. You 0:13:43.756 --> 0:13:46.116 just think you're not popular, you know. 0:13:46.516 --> 0:13:46.956 Yeah. 0:13:47.436 --> 0:13:50.316 Have you are there any ways in which you apply 0:13:50.756 --> 0:13:54.276 the like you were talking about being on stage? You 0:13:54.276 --> 0:13:56.676 have a set list, so you have sort of a 0:13:56.756 --> 0:13:59.716 map of what you're going to do. Have you applied 0:13:59.876 --> 0:14:03.236 that to other parts of your life outside of performing, 0:14:04.156 --> 0:14:05.956 like as a way to live, as a way to 0:14:06.476 --> 0:14:08.316 sort of like write yourself. 0:14:09.356 --> 0:14:12.556 I make a lot of lists for things, but you 0:14:12.596 --> 0:14:16.676 know it's not you know, but everybody makes grocery lists. 0:14:16.716 --> 0:14:19.116 I don't know, Like, are you so much benefits from 0:14:19.156 --> 0:14:21.436 having like a schedule, Like is that feel? 0:14:22.156 --> 0:14:22.276 No? 0:14:22.356 --> 0:14:25.796 I don't like that. I prefer to have open space 0:14:25.876 --> 0:14:29.236 and then make things in the schedule. But uh, but 0:14:29.476 --> 0:14:33.516 you know what I do do, Like, uh, I've always 0:14:33.676 --> 0:14:36.916 cooked since I was a kid, and like during the pandemic, 0:14:36.916 --> 0:14:39.236 I really started cooking again a lot because we were here. 0:14:39.756 --> 0:14:41.316 And one of the things I do do is I 0:14:41.316 --> 0:14:43.116 do a lot of research. When I want to find 0:14:43.116 --> 0:14:44.876 something I want to cook, I'll read a lot about 0:14:44.876 --> 0:14:49.156 it first, and then i'll like, you know, make the 0:14:49.196 --> 0:14:53.036 recipe from several other recipes often and I'll read it 0:14:53.076 --> 0:14:56.556 over a lot, you know, before I make it too. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 0:14:56.556 --> 0:14:58.676 And the same way when we were doing the podcast, 0:14:58.716 --> 0:15:02.996 I would spend like a lot of research time researching 0:15:03.116 --> 0:15:04.556 all the stuff I want to talk about. When we 0:15:04.596 --> 0:15:07.516 had the Underwater Sunshine podcast talking about the music, because 0:15:07.636 --> 0:15:09.796 if we're going to do like a four part you know, 0:15:09.876 --> 0:15:12.436 like a four hour, five hour series on punk music, 0:15:13.116 --> 0:15:15.356 then I really need to have my notes and have 0:15:15.476 --> 0:15:18.036 it together which is how I started cooking again because 0:15:18.036 --> 0:15:20.916 when we couldn't do the podcast over the pandemic, I 0:15:20.996 --> 0:15:22.876 needed something to do with all that time, so I 0:15:22.916 --> 0:15:26.636 started cooking. Yeah, so I do do things like that, 0:15:26.796 --> 0:15:30.996 Like I'm not as comfortable just winging it totally. I 0:15:30.996 --> 0:15:33.276 mean I will wing it still, but it's I put 0:15:33.316 --> 0:15:34.996 a lot of preparation into the winging it. You know, 0:15:35.036 --> 0:15:37.516 I'll make my own recipe, but I'll put a lot 0:15:37.556 --> 0:15:40.516 of preparation into that recipe before I do it. Does 0:15:40.556 --> 0:15:41.276 that have. 0:15:41.236 --> 0:15:43.596 Any sort of overlap with the way that you write songs? 0:15:44.316 --> 0:15:46.876 No, not really at all. That's very that is wing 0:15:46.916 --> 0:15:48.156 I mean I do that a lot off the top 0:15:48.156 --> 0:15:51.556 of my head, and it's very inspiration based. I mean 0:15:51.596 --> 0:15:53.236 it's a lot of craft that goes into it too, 0:15:53.876 --> 0:15:55.916 But you really get in a groove with feeling stuff 0:15:56.716 --> 0:16:01.436 and then finding ways to expressing words and music those 0:16:01.436 --> 0:16:02.156 things you're feeling. 0:16:02.796 --> 0:16:05.836 Does it build over time with experience or is that 0:16:06.876 --> 0:16:11.236 is it more? Does the craft get to where it's 0:16:11.276 --> 0:16:13.316 at from studying? 0:16:14.596 --> 0:16:16.996 Well, you push yourself into the writing. You push yourself 0:16:17.036 --> 0:16:20.796 to find the ways to say things that aren't the 0:16:20.836 --> 0:16:25.276 obvious ways, the ways that are you so you look 0:16:25.436 --> 0:16:29.556 for the details in the feeling you want to express, 0:16:29.636 --> 0:16:35.436 you know, like saying I really like her or I 0:16:35.556 --> 0:16:41.316 love her or I love you isn't particularly meaningful. I 0:16:41.316 --> 0:16:43.556 mean a lot of people have said it. What does 0:16:43.636 --> 0:16:46.476 I love her tell you about me? Not much, you know, 0:16:46.836 --> 0:16:49.156 and not much about the situation, and not much about 0:16:49.196 --> 0:16:53.356 the relationship or anything. But if you say and all 0:16:53.396 --> 0:16:55.436 at once, I looked across a crowded room to see 0:16:55.436 --> 0:16:58.516 the way that light attaches to a girl, Well, now 0:16:58.516 --> 0:17:00.956 you've got this picture of someone in a room looking 0:17:00.996 --> 0:17:04.036 at someone and all those details. That communicates a lot 0:17:04.076 --> 0:17:07.116 of feeling, yeah, and also paints a picture that's very 0:17:07.236 --> 0:17:11.156 vivid of light hitting someone across a hospital room. You know, 0:17:12.636 --> 0:17:15.836 But you don't necessarily that line doesn't just pop up 0:17:15.876 --> 0:17:17.356 out of nowhere. You know, you have to think about 0:17:17.436 --> 0:17:19.436 you want to express this thing, So you think about 0:17:19.476 --> 0:17:21.636 the room you're in or the room you were in, 0:17:21.716 --> 0:17:27.876 and you think about the details, and how can I 0:17:27.956 --> 0:17:30.836 conjure this feeling, which is I liked her, yeah, but 0:17:30.916 --> 0:17:32.396 in a way that it's not just I liked her, 0:17:32.396 --> 0:17:36.636 because that doesn't really give anybody anything, you know. And 0:17:36.676 --> 0:17:38.916 then the craft is like disciplining yourself to do that. 0:17:40.196 --> 0:17:43.436 I read a book by Steven Sonheim once and he 0:17:44.116 --> 0:17:47.476 mentioned that he always keeps a rhyming dictionary with him, 0:17:48.396 --> 0:17:50.076 and I was like, why would you do that? That's 0:17:50.076 --> 0:17:53.356 so hack, you know, and I consider him as good 0:17:53.356 --> 0:17:56.316 a songwriter that has ever lived, you know, And he said, well, 0:17:56.396 --> 0:17:58.196 it's just a tool. Why wouldn't you have a tool 0:17:58.236 --> 0:18:00.996 that gave you a bunch of ideas Because it just 0:18:00.996 --> 0:18:03.036 gives you a bunch of words that you might want 0:18:03.036 --> 0:18:05.396 to use. And one of those words, even the one 0:18:05.436 --> 0:18:08.276 that you don't use, might cause an image to pop 0:18:08.356 --> 0:18:10.276 up in your head that you do want to use 0:18:10.316 --> 0:18:11.716 later on, you know. And so I just thought, oh, 0:18:11.796 --> 0:18:13.996 it's weird. I'll get a rhyming dictionary and I keep 0:18:14.036 --> 0:18:16.276 them around now and they're really useful. And sometimes I'll 0:18:16.316 --> 0:18:19.596 just make lists of words at rhyme and then it'll 0:18:19.836 --> 0:18:22.836 inspire something else later in the song or right there. 0:18:22.876 --> 0:18:25.636 You know that there are a whole lot of different 0:18:25.676 --> 0:18:28.676 ways to apply craft. Sometimes you can feel like it 0:18:28.676 --> 0:18:32.956 should just be this feeling you get and that inspiration 0:18:33.356 --> 0:18:36.636 and that emotion that is really important. You want the 0:18:36.676 --> 0:18:40.956 writing to be like infused with feeling and inspiration. But 0:18:41.956 --> 0:18:44.596 you know, you can't always expect it to just happen 0:18:44.636 --> 0:18:46.476 off the top of your head. I've written whole songs 0:18:46.476 --> 0:18:48.236 off the top of my head, just jamming with the 0:18:48.276 --> 0:18:50.116 band and I'm singing to Mike, And what's gone on 0:18:50.156 --> 0:18:52.196 four track around here was written almost entirely off the 0:18:52.196 --> 0:18:54.236 top of my head. I just got the tape later 0:18:54.276 --> 0:18:56.756 and looked at it and it was all there. But 0:18:56.916 --> 0:19:00.516 you also sometimes you sit down and you work on it. 0:19:02.876 --> 0:19:06.916 This record, I wrote the first half the record on 0:19:06.956 --> 0:19:09.076 my friend's farm, and I went back there a year 0:19:09.196 --> 0:19:14.476 later and wrote the rest of it. And on the 0:19:14.516 --> 0:19:17.676 way home, I stopped in London because my friends in 0:19:17.756 --> 0:19:20.716 the band Gang of Youths were making a record and 0:19:20.756 --> 0:19:22.276 I had already sung on it once, but they had 0:19:22.276 --> 0:19:25.396 scrapped the record and they were re recording it and 0:19:25.436 --> 0:19:26.836 I needed to go sing on it again. So I 0:19:26.836 --> 0:19:28.436 stopped there and sang on a bunch of stuff. And 0:19:28.436 --> 0:19:30.876 then when I got home a little while after I 0:19:30.876 --> 0:19:34.356 got home, David Leo Pepe, the singer, sent me the 0:19:34.356 --> 0:19:38.636 record finished and it was so good. And then listening 0:19:38.636 --> 0:19:43.676 to it, I thought, you know, I didn't hit this 0:19:43.796 --> 0:19:47.636 bar on the stuff. I just wrote those songs aren't 0:19:47.676 --> 0:19:51.876 good enough. And this is never happening for my attack career. 0:19:51.916 --> 0:19:54.356 I've never second guessed a song like this. When I'm done, 0:19:54.396 --> 0:19:56.636 they're done. If they're not good enough, I usually throw 0:19:56.636 --> 0:19:58.676 them out. You know. It was clear to me that 0:19:58.716 --> 0:20:00.996 I had kind of misjudged. I thought that Virginia through 0:20:00.996 --> 0:20:02.116 the Rain was perfect, but. 0:20:02.196 --> 0:20:05.196 It's such a good song, eat aful song. 0:20:05.876 --> 0:20:10.316 But the rest of them, like Spaceman in Tulsa, it 0:20:11.156 --> 0:20:14.156 had too many sections, It went through too many permutations. 0:20:14.796 --> 0:20:16.556 I needed to. I went back to the drawing board 0:20:16.636 --> 0:20:18.196 and I really took that song and tuned it up 0:20:18.196 --> 0:20:21.756 and tightened it up. The song that became Under the Aurora. 0:20:23.356 --> 0:20:25.876 It wasn't a very good chorus. I kept all the 0:20:25.956 --> 0:20:29.596 verses in a slightly different order, but I wrote an 0:20:29.756 --> 0:20:32.116 entire new chorus for it, which is now now the 0:20:32.116 --> 0:20:34.756 song is called under the Aurora. The other chorus wasn't 0:20:34.756 --> 0:20:37.636 good enough. Box Cars. It was too hard for me 0:20:37.676 --> 0:20:39.756 to play, and I hadn't finished it. I had all 0:20:39.796 --> 0:20:43.076 the ideas in my head, but not the song. So 0:20:43.116 --> 0:20:46.036 I went back and reworked all that stuff and then 0:20:46.196 --> 0:20:48.916 sat on it. Because I think the act of realizing 0:20:48.956 --> 0:20:51.236 they weren't good enough. Really shook my confidence in them, 0:20:51.476 --> 0:20:54.516 and so they sat there for two years. It's why 0:20:54.516 --> 0:20:57.076 there was such a chunk of time between Sweet One 0:20:57.396 --> 0:21:00.876 and the Sweet Tooth, because I just I don't think 0:21:00.876 --> 0:21:02.716 I even sent them to the band. I didn't feel 0:21:02.756 --> 0:21:05.756 good about them, even after I'd reworked them and I 0:21:05.756 --> 0:21:07.516