WEBVTT - Could Congress Force Action on ICE?

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. We cannot fund a

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<v Speaker 1>Department of Homeland Security that is murdering American citizens.

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<v Speaker 2>The credibility of ICE and DHS is going to be

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<v Speaker 2>called in a question.

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<v Speaker 3>With a government funding deadline Friday night. US senators are

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<v Speaker 3>actively debating a spending package that allocates billions to the

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<v Speaker 3>Department of Homeland Security, which oversees Immigration and Customs Enforcement

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<v Speaker 3>and Customs and Border Protection. The package passed the House

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<v Speaker 3>last week, but that was before border patrol agents in

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<v Speaker 3>Minnesota shot and killed Alex Pretty and ICE You Nurse.

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<v Speaker 3>An ICE agent fatally shot Renee Good on January seventh.

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<v Speaker 3>As negotiations over the spending bill continue, Senate Democrats like

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<v Speaker 3>Amy Klobashar, who's now running from Minnesota governor, and Chris

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<v Speaker 3>Murphy of Connecticut are saying they'll oppose the package until

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<v Speaker 3>more safeguards on dh CPB and ICE are in place.

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<v Speaker 4>I am strongly opposed to more funding for ICE. Minneapolis

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<v Speaker 4>is fundamentally less safe because ICE and CBP are there,

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<v Speaker 4>and that's the point they are there to cause a conflict.

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<v Speaker 3>Meanwhile, Republicans like Senators Lisa Murkowski and Bill Cassidy have

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<v Speaker 3>started to scrutinize DHS leadership and ICE's actions on the ground.

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<v Speaker 5>Being mettersis leadership.

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<v Speaker 2>I think what you're seeing is President Trump focusing upon

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<v Speaker 2>those events and deciding that he needs to guard that legacy.

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<v Speaker 4>Tom Tellis's telling reporters this is an issue they should own.

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<v Speaker 4>That their strong suit was border security and immigration.

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<v Speaker 3>Something that got the president elected.

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<v Speaker 5>They have destroyed it through their incompetence.

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<v Speaker 4>That's one of the reasons why Donald Trump was elected,

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<v Speaker 4>and now it's at risk of turning into a political liability.

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<v Speaker 3>Stephen Dennis covers Congress for Bloomberg, and along with Bloomberg's

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<v Speaker 3>The Least Ideas has been tracking the spending fight.

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<v Speaker 1>It's been remarkable to see especially Republicans, albeit it's mostly

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<v Speaker 1>Republicans who we've already seen speak out against the president,

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<v Speaker 1>still a very small group, but start to be vocal

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<v Speaker 1>in saying that someone needs to own this, and it

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<v Speaker 1>is going to be someone within the administration.

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<v Speaker 3>The White House has started to move closer to democrats

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<v Speaker 3>demands in the hopes of avoiding a government shutdown.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, ye're hopefully we won't have a shutdown, and we're

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<v Speaker 5>working on that right now. I think we're getting close

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<v Speaker 5>to Democrats I don't believe want to see it either,

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<v Speaker 5>So we'll work in a very bipartisan way. I believe

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<v Speaker 5>not to have a shutdown. We don't want to shut down.

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<v Speaker 3>But with billions of dollars already approved for ice from

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<v Speaker 3>Trump's One Big Beautiful Bill Act last year, how much

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<v Speaker 3>leverage does Congress have over an emboldened DHS and what

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<v Speaker 3>options are on the table now?

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<v Speaker 4>A lot of Democrats who voted to end the previous shutdown,

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<v Speaker 4>even though they're very upset about healthcare. These Democrats whoss

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<v Speaker 4>the line and said, Okay, we need to end this shutdown.

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<v Speaker 4>Their conscience was shocked and they need to see something real.

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<v Speaker 4>And so this could go on a long time because

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<v Speaker 4>this is no longer about how many dollars somebody gets.

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<v Speaker 4>This is about the kind of country we are.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm Sarah Holder, and this is the big take from

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<v Speaker 3>Bloomberg News today on the show inside the fight over

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<v Speaker 3>ice funding playing out in Washington as tensions continue to

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<v Speaker 3>flare in Minnesota. I'm wondering how you would describe this

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<v Speaker 3>moment for Congress specifically.

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<v Speaker 4>It has definitely been, as John Thune said, an inflection

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<v Speaker 4>point for reevaluating the tactics, the procedures, how they're going

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<v Speaker 4>about these raids. First, there was sort of a tsunami

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<v Speaker 4>in the hours after the shooting, after the videos came out,

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<v Speaker 4>after the White House and especially Stephen Miller and Christy

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<v Speaker 4>Nome called Alex pretty a domestic terrorist and an assassin

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<v Speaker 4>on social media with no evidence. And then I think

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<v Speaker 4>it took Republicans another day or so to really realize

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<v Speaker 4>that this was becoming a huge political liability for them

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<v Speaker 4>heading into the midterm elections.

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<v Speaker 3>And Alicie, what role does Congress really have when it

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<v Speaker 3>comes to an agency like ICE and its oversight, What

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<v Speaker 3>power do they have over the situation?

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<v Speaker 1>The biggest thing is, as we're saying this week, is

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<v Speaker 1>through spending and through appropriations, and so they can coalesce

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<v Speaker 1>and dictate how much money is going to detention beds,

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<v Speaker 1>how much money is going to body cameras. And so Democrats,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, being in the minority, are really trying to

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<v Speaker 1>grasp onto this moment as this is where we can

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<v Speaker 1>can leverage a little glimpse of power and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>kind of make our issues known. And if that means

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<v Speaker 1>a partial shutdown of the government of course it'll look

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<v Speaker 1>very different than what we saw months ago. With a

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<v Speaker 1>full shutdown of the government, then that is what it

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<v Speaker 1>may take.

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<v Speaker 3>So just last year, Congress allocated tens of billions of

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<v Speaker 3>additional dollars to ICE through Trump's One Big, Beautiful Bill Act,

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<v Speaker 3>and all of the support for that passage came from

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<v Speaker 3>Republicans who control the Senate and they have a slim

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<v Speaker 3>majority in the House. So Steve, let's start with what's

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<v Speaker 3>happening in the Republican party right now. What are you

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<v Speaker 3>hearing from Republican members of Congress, but how their views

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<v Speaker 3>on ICE have shifted since approving that bill as the

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<v Speaker 3>agency has escalated its presence in cities like Minneapolis.

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<v Speaker 4>I have talked to a fair number of Republicans since

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<v Speaker 4>the shooting who are still extremely supportive of the mission.

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<v Speaker 4>What they are worried about is the tactics. You're starting

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<v Speaker 4>to see complaints from Rand Paul, who did not vote

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<v Speaker 4>for that package. For example, he's the Homeland Security Chairman

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<v Speaker 4>who has called for a hearing on February twelfth. He's

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<v Speaker 4>somebody who has long had concerns about the Fourth Amendment,

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<v Speaker 4>the Second Amendment, the First Amendment, all of those are

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<v Speaker 4>implicated in the shooting of Alex Pretty. He was protesting,

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<v Speaker 4>he was filming, and he was exercising his right to

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<v Speaker 4>bear arms, which is legal in Minnesota in the United States,

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<v Speaker 4>and I.

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<v Speaker 5>Don't think it's on this to say he brandished a weapon.

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<v Speaker 5>I don't think it's honest to say he assaulted officer.

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<v Speaker 4>And then you also have the situation that is bothering

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<v Speaker 4>some Republicans where they are asserting that they can just

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<v Speaker 4>barge into people's houses, smash people's windows, and take them

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<v Speaker 4>out of cars without a judicial warrant, and that's led

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<v Speaker 4>to a lot of really bad images and videos that

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<v Speaker 4>don't necessarily play well with swing voters and are absolutely

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<v Speaker 4>firing up the Democratic Party base. So if you have

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<v Speaker 4>sixty to sixty five percent of the public who are

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<v Speaker 4>unhappy with ICE tactics, that still means there might be

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<v Speaker 4>two thirds of the Republican base that supports ICE tactics,

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<v Speaker 4>or even eighty percent. And so I think a lot

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<v Speaker 4>of Republicans are trying to avoid angering their base, many

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<v Speaker 4>of whom do not seem to have any problem with

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<v Speaker 4>these With these shootings.

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<v Speaker 3>And Alicia, one of the things that really demonstrates just

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<v Speaker 3>how fast this conversation is moving. Is that just last

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<v Speaker 3>week the House approved a spending bill that includes billions

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<v Speaker 3>in spending on the Department of Homeland Security and ICE,

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<v Speaker 3>and that was also approved by a Republican majority. I'm

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<v Speaker 3>wondering how significant it is to hear this more public

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<v Speaker 3>criticism just a week after that vote, and whether you

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<v Speaker 3>think we'll see more opposition within Trump's party.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the first time we're really seeing Republicans sandwiching

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<v Speaker 1>in even a request for oversight or a full investigation

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<v Speaker 1>to figure out what exactly happened here. And of course,

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<v Speaker 1>going to Steve's point earlier, this is Trump's. This is

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<v Speaker 1>something that has been pretty popular for him up until

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<v Speaker 1>this front, especially among Republican voters. So to see the

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<v Speaker 1>tide kind of turn against him doesn't bode well necessarily,

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<v Speaker 1>and especially as more details are released. I think that

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<v Speaker 1>we will continue to see what exactly went wrong here

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<v Speaker 1>and that will either push Republicans to tap it down

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<v Speaker 1>or build a broader coalition against ICE in general.

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<v Speaker 3>We also saw Chris Maddele, one of the leading Republican

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<v Speaker 3>candidates in Minnesota's gubernatorial race, who also provided legal assistance

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<v Speaker 3>to the agent who shot Renee Good drop out of

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<v Speaker 3>the race on Tuesday.

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<v Speaker 2>I cannot support the National Republican stated retribution on the

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<v Speaker 2>citizens of our state, nor can I count myself a

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<v Speaker 2>member of a party that would do so.

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<v Speaker 3>How has that been received by the party at large.

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<v Speaker 1>It's definitely a signal that there is a growing sense

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<v Speaker 1>of discontent in what is going on in Minneapolis, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think it speaks to the significance of the moment.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, also it looks at like the politics of it.

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<v Speaker 4>One of the things he said in his ten minute

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<v Speaker 4>statement is that Republicans aren't going to win in this

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<v Speaker 4>environment in Minnesota, that this is basically destroying their brand.

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<v Speaker 4>And he said if he had millions of dollars to

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<v Speaker 4>run as an independent, he would, but he doesn't. And

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<v Speaker 4>so I think that there's just a lot of frustration

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<v Speaker 4>that they should be winning on this issue and they're

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<v Speaker 4>kind of flubbing it.

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<v Speaker 3>I want to turn my attention to the Democrats now.

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<v Speaker 3>There were seven Democratic House representatives who voted for the

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<v Speaker 3>DHS spending bill alongside Republicans last week. One of them,

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<v Speaker 3>New York House Representative Tom Swazi, has since come out

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<v Speaker 3>and said he regretted it. Alicia how did those Democratic

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<v Speaker 3>representatives justify their initial vote to approve DHS funding and

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<v Speaker 3>what's changed for someone like Swazi.

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<v Speaker 1>It's notable that all seven who voted for the DHS

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<v Speaker 1>funding bill are in these very vulnerable positions. They're either

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<v Speaker 1>in a red region kind of holding the swingy district position,

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<v Speaker 1>some are in areas that voted for Trump, and yet they,

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<v Speaker 1>based on their namesake or based on reputation, have been

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<v Speaker 1>able to continue leadership despite the sort of split throughout

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<v Speaker 1>the ballot. And so I think, leaning into the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that immigration has been one of Trump's more popular policy fronts,

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<v Speaker 1>especially among Republicans, that was sort of their justification. And

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<v Speaker 1>of course we've seen in recent weeks that this can

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<v Speaker 1>really come back on them. I guess time wills hell

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<v Speaker 1>if this decision kind of comes to bite them come

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<v Speaker 1>election time.

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<v Speaker 3>After the break, where the debate in Washington could go

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<v Speaker 3>from here and what it could mean on the ground

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<v Speaker 3>in Minnesota. Congress could decide to spin out DHS funding

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<v Speaker 3>from the larger spending package so that it can be

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<v Speaker 3>considered on its own. But if Congress doesn't reach a

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<v Speaker 3>deal on the spending package by Friday, the US government

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<v Speaker 3>would be headed towards a partial shutdown, and Bloomberg's Alicia

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<v Speaker 3>Diaz says that wouldn't necessarily mean federal agents would have

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<v Speaker 3>to stop their operations in Minnesota.

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<v Speaker 1>ICE will more or less continue to operate as normal.

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<v Speaker 1>Many of those ages will continue to get paid, many

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<v Speaker 1>of them will be deemed essential workers. So in practical purposes,

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<v Speaker 1>it will not have any kind of short term impact

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<v Speaker 1>to these on the ground raids or presences that we're

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<v Speaker 1>seeing in cities across the country.

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<v Speaker 4>I think the thing is is that a lot of

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<v Speaker 4>Democrats right now want to claw back some of that

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<v Speaker 4>many tens of billions of dollars that they spent on

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<v Speaker 4>border security, that is funding what's going on now.

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<v Speaker 3>Bloomberg Stephen Dennis again, you know.

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<v Speaker 4>Huge recruitment drives, huge bonuses for signing up quickie training programs,

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<v Speaker 4>massive privately run for profit prison operations. You know, talk

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<v Speaker 4>of bonuses the more people they can detain. So there's

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<v Speaker 4>this bigger issue here, which is they got this huge

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<v Speaker 4>funding increase that was intended to go for four years

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<v Speaker 4>that the Democrats call it a big slush fund because

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<v Speaker 4>they could spend that money whether the government is shut

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<v Speaker 4>down or not. And the broader package. You have to

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<v Speaker 4>put it in context of everything that's happened over the

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<v Speaker 4>last year. This broader package actually rolls back a lot

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<v Speaker 4>of the DOGE cuts. It restores funding for the Department

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<v Speaker 4>of Education, for a lot of NIH research grants. It

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<v Speaker 4>deals with all sorts of things all across the government.

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<v Speaker 4>It's actually most of the government agencies, including healthcare and defense.

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<v Speaker 4>There are so many things, thousands and thousands of little

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<v Speaker 4>provisions in here that Democrats want, that they negotiated, and

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<v Speaker 4>they were willing up until Saturday night when Chuck Schumer

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<v Speaker 4>first put out a statement saying we're going to block

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<v Speaker 4>this thing that we negotiated. They still want to pass

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<v Speaker 4>most of that bill. I mean, Schumer told me as

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<v Speaker 4>he was leaving the building and I was walking him

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<v Speaker 4>out the door, I asked him sort of, well, what

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<v Speaker 4>you know, is there a way out here? And he

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<v Speaker 4>said that, you know, the first thing that has to

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<v Speaker 4>happen is the Republicans have to agree to split off

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<v Speaker 4>the DHS funding and we'll set that aside and pass

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<v Speaker 4>everything else.

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<v Speaker 1>Republicans know that if the DHS spills spun off, they

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<v Speaker 1>sort of lose their leverage for getting any compromise through

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<v Speaker 1>the door, So from the Republican point of view, it

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<v Speaker 1>is less likely to have that bill spin off. They

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<v Speaker 1>want it to be this bigger, more encompassing package of

0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:28.920
<v Speaker 1>spending bills that would essentially fund about half of the

0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:34.320
<v Speaker 1>government and bring those all together through the door come Friday.

0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:36.520
<v Speaker 3>And I want to talk about some of those accountability

0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:39.760
<v Speaker 3>measures that could be baked into a Senate version of

0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.080
<v Speaker 3>this bill. Right and the House approved version of the

0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:45.840
<v Speaker 3>spending bill, There's twenty million four body cameras for ICE agents.

0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:50.479
<v Speaker 3>There's twenty million towards some more oversight of DHS facilities.

0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.080
<v Speaker 3>So other than the hard money numbers that are being

0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:56.240
<v Speaker 3>debated here, are there other provisions Congress is talking about

0:14:56.480 --> 0:15:00.320
<v Speaker 3>working into this spending bill or strengthening that could in

0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:01.240
<v Speaker 3>ice Alicia.

0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.880
<v Speaker 1>Several Democrats have called for specific more so like human

0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:10.680
<v Speaker 1>rights provisions. ICE agents can't wear masks. ICE agents can't

0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:14.000
<v Speaker 1>racially profile or enter a place of worship like a

0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:16.600
<v Speaker 1>synagogue or a church and use that as kind of

0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:20.800
<v Speaker 1>a ground for targeting people who are here undocumented. So

0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:24.720
<v Speaker 1>there are less funding specific provisions that Democrats are really

0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:26.360
<v Speaker 1>fighting to get into this built.

0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:29.880
<v Speaker 4>I talked to Tina Smith, she's a Senator from Minnesota,

0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.200
<v Speaker 4>and I asked her about what the Republicans are pushing

0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.600
<v Speaker 4>for John Thune, Susan Collins, et cetera. And there are

0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.960
<v Speaker 4>these talks going on with the administration on some kind

0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:44.080
<v Speaker 4>of executive action that the president could take now he's

0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:48.200
<v Speaker 4>taken some small actions. But Tina Smith told me that

0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:51.440
<v Speaker 4>on the ground in Minnesota, things haven't really changed. They're

0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:54.520
<v Speaker 4>still continuing to do what they're doing, taking people off

0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:58.480
<v Speaker 4>the street, set brading families, all the rest. And she

0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:02.080
<v Speaker 4>said she is not going to be satisfied with what

0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:06.240
<v Speaker 4>she called a pinky promise from this administration. There is

0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:10.400
<v Speaker 4>no trust and if there's no trust, you can't just

0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:14.320
<v Speaker 4>satisfy people with some kind of sort of half measure

0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:17.960
<v Speaker 4>changing of the who's in charge. With Tom Homan going

0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:19.160
<v Speaker 4>to Minneapolis.

0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:22.320
<v Speaker 1>As things stand, I think one of the biggest things

0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:26.160
<v Speaker 1>to watch will be whether this specific DHS bill will

0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:27.120
<v Speaker 1>be spun off or not.

0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:32.000
<v Speaker 3>And if there are substantive changes made to the bill,

0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:34.480
<v Speaker 3>the House would need to approve them when they're back

0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:36.320
<v Speaker 3>in session, and that happens next week.

0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:39.640
<v Speaker 1>Yes, correct, So the household return next week. They then

0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.680
<v Speaker 1>will have to go and approve the changes. And we've

0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.080
<v Speaker 1>had a better sense of how the Senate is feeling

0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:48.840
<v Speaker 1>about the tragedies that occurred to Minneapolis because they've been

0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:51.560
<v Speaker 1>here this week and they've been in the hallways. They've

0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:55.600
<v Speaker 1>been tweeting, Some members of the House have taken their

0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:58.479
<v Speaker 1>point of view to social media, but they don't necessarily

0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:01.880
<v Speaker 1>have to face questions from porters in the hallway. So

0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:04.800
<v Speaker 1>when they returned to Washington, we'll get a better sense

0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:07.800
<v Speaker 1>of if there is some kind of a compromise, is

0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:09.280
<v Speaker 1>the House going to play ball with it?

0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:13.640
<v Speaker 3>And my last question is just about where the President

0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:16.320
<v Speaker 3>stands on all of this, because the funding bill, changed

0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:20.479
<v Speaker 3>or unchanged, spun off or intact, will end up on

0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:24.680
<v Speaker 3>the president's desk eventually. I'm interested in how you're tracking

0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:27.520
<v Speaker 3>Trump's rhetorical changes here. He gave a speech in Iowa

0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:29.919
<v Speaker 3>on Tuesday night where he said he was going to

0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:31.960
<v Speaker 3>de escalate a little bit when it comes to the

0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:36.280
<v Speaker 3>approach to immigration enforcement in Minneapolis, but he also described

0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:40.359
<v Speaker 3>the people arrested by ICE in Minnesota as hardened, vicious criminals.

0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.040
<v Speaker 3>According to The New York Times, most of the people

0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:46.240
<v Speaker 3>who've been arrested by ICE in its most high profile rates,

0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:49.560
<v Speaker 3>like the ones in LA and Chicago have no criminal record.

0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:54.640
<v Speaker 3>So I'm wondering, Alicia, what does Trump's shift in rhetoric

0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:59.199
<v Speaker 3>and tone around this issue signal and what doesn't it signal.

0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:02.399
<v Speaker 1>I think it's very telling. Of course, we have seen

0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:05.960
<v Speaker 1>the president swing back and forth on a variety of issues.

0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.480
<v Speaker 1>What comes to mind is tariffs, so again we've sort

0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:13.440
<v Speaker 1>of seen that. Seesaw happening with the actions in Minneapolis.

0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:19.080
<v Speaker 1>He has this blunt rhetoric, calling folks on the grounds criminals,

0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:22.560
<v Speaker 1>pointing to the fact that Alex Preddy had a gun,

0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:25.080
<v Speaker 1>while of course we knew that it was something that

0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:30.280
<v Speaker 1>he was legally able to conceal and carry. Time will

0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:33.919
<v Speaker 1>tell how he will respond to changes in a government

0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:37.760
<v Speaker 1>funding bill, but he seems as of now open to

0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:42.960
<v Speaker 1>some sort of reining in, even if it's not by

0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:47.160
<v Speaker 1>his own actions, because we've seen the American people respond

0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:49.960
<v Speaker 1>to this, and this is one of his most popular

0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:52.520
<v Speaker 1>policies and it doesn't vote well for anyone if his

0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.840
<v Speaker 1>voters and constituents start to turn the tides on that.

0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:04.639
<v Speaker 3>This is the big take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah

0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:07.880
<v Speaker 3>Holder to get more from the Big Take and unlimited

0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:11.520
<v Speaker 3>access to all of bloomberg dot Com. Subscribe today at

0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:15.840
<v Speaker 3>Bloomberg dot com. Slash Podcast offer, Thanks for listening. We'll

0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:16.600
<v Speaker 3>be back tomorrow