Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 2: Hey fam Today on the bright Side, we're back with
Speaker 2: another edition of Asking for a Friend. Friendship coach Danielle
Speaker 2: Buyer Jackson is here to talk all about healthy conflict
Speaker 2: and friendships. Plus she answers some of your questions. It's Thursday,
Speaker 2: May second. I'm Simone Boyce, I'm.
Speaker 3: Danielle robe and this is the bright Side from Hello Sunshine. Okay,
Speaker 3: speaking of friends, I need to defriend you. Why I
Speaker 3: can't take any more of these health food experiments.
Speaker 2: I can't not you too, Okay for anyone who doesn't know,
Speaker 2: I have this thing where I try to recreate these
Speaker 2: healthy food recipes that I see on like Pinterest. I
Speaker 2: try to recreate them at home, and they've been a
Speaker 2: little bit out of control lately. Like I tried making
Speaker 2: a empanada, which is a a street that has meat inside,
Speaker 2: but I made the crust with plantain, served it to
Speaker 2: my husband. He hated. He thought it was terrible.
Speaker 1: Your kids taste test any of this, Yeah.
Speaker 2: They don't like any of it either. I'm the only
Speaker 2: one who eats it. And then I tried to chicken crust,
Speaker 2: pizza chicken crust.
Speaker 3: Yes, this is what you sent me A photo of
Speaker 3: this is where I felt ill.
Speaker 2: So the crust is made from chicken, egg and parmesan cheese.
Speaker 1: My mom is gonna love this.
Speaker 2: It's like a high protein pizza crust that doesn't taste
Speaker 2: anything like pizza crust.
Speaker 3: Well, I know you're on your workout thirty day plans,
Speaker 3: So is this why you made this so you can
Speaker 3: just be eating protein?
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm a little protein crazed at the moment.
Speaker 3: What does Michael do when you feed in these for
Speaker 3: dinner and then he can't eat it?
Speaker 2: Bless his heart. He's so kind. He's such a kind man.
Speaker 2: He tries to be really polite. Like the other day
Speaker 2: when I was like, Hey, I'm gonna try making those
Speaker 2: empanadas again. I'm really going to try to perfect the
Speaker 2: recipe tonight. This is my second try at it. He
Speaker 2: was like, oh, cool, do you mind just like leaving
Speaker 2: me some of the meat on the side, Like I
Speaker 2: really love the meat filling that you made. And I
Speaker 2: was like, you can just say you hate it, and
Speaker 2: he's like, okay, well yeah it wasn't my favorite.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: There's this great book called Nonviolent Communication. Yes, I feel
Speaker 3: like Michael is practiced at that because I would have
Speaker 3: been like, uh, I'm.
Speaker 1: Going to order Chinese food, but I'm good, thank you.
Speaker 2: He's an envyck. He's a non violent communication king. Oh wait,
Speaker 2: can we call out your on hinge behavior?
Speaker 3: Though?
Speaker 1: Why what did I do?
Speaker 2: In my Instagram dns? This morning, Danielle sends me a
Speaker 2: video of a woman sewing an air tag inside her
Speaker 2: husband's shoe, and Danielle's like, yeah, that's something I would do.
Speaker 3: I can't end up having. Okay, first of all, it
Speaker 3: is something I would do. Maybe I don't know. I
Speaker 3: don't trust men. I had this really bad boyfriend five
Speaker 3: years ago. I used to be securely attached, like I
Speaker 3: believed everybody. I was this nice Midwest girl from Chicago
Speaker 3: who came to LA and took everybody at face value.
Speaker 3: And then I dated this guy that was so brutal,
Speaker 3: Like I hate that. I don't trust people because of him.
Speaker 3: But it really shifted things. So now I'm sewing air
Speaker 3: tags into shoes, I'm using ring cameras like I do
Speaker 3: not put anything past men.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Well, if you're trying to date Danielle
Speaker 2: to the two percent of our audience that is mail,
Speaker 2: just make sure you have like an air tag detector
Speaker 2: or something at home so that you cannot check those shoes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, or just like overly text me and tell me
Speaker 3: where you are. Maybe I need to share a location.
Speaker 3: That gets crazy. Actually, I don't know. It's tough with
Speaker 3: the sharing. My parents have my location, my friends, and
Speaker 3: my friends share their location with other friends. My friend's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I have twenty friends on here. I'm just tracking them all. Oh,
Speaker 3: so and so is going to the store. And I'm like, what,
Speaker 3: this is so much, it's too much. I also, you know,
Speaker 3: I love to be at home on the couch, so
Speaker 3: I can't have my friends track my location because it's
Speaker 3: always there.
Speaker 2: There's always home, be a blinking dot in the same spot.
Speaker 2: Just wouldn't move exactly.
Speaker 3: Sometimes I get texts from my parents like why aren't
Speaker 3: you out on a Saturday night?
Speaker 2: Are you alive?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 3: Well, from unhinged to undefeated, we have some good news.
Speaker 3: You want to shout out a team of girls that
Speaker 3: are making us all so proud. There's a girl's under
Speaker 3: twelve football team in the UK, which really means soccer
Speaker 3: here in the US, and they won the championship.
Speaker 1: In the Boys League.
Speaker 3: So badass they earned the title Invincibles because of it.
Speaker 3: But they went undefeated all season. And here's the best part.
Speaker 3: They were met with some resistance from the league bosses,
Speaker 3: who told them after winning like eighteen games that they
Speaker 3: had to play in the all girls competition. And the
Speaker 3: team's manager, Toby Green, stepped in and convinced everyone that
Speaker 3: his team of girls was skilled enough to play in
Speaker 3: the league. And then they won it all.
Speaker 2: They got the w WE stand Toby. Toby is such
Speaker 2: an ally to the community, totally.
Speaker 1: Toby is with us.
Speaker 2: Toby is with us all the way. First of all, girls,
Speaker 2: you just you go, you the damn thing. I hope
Speaker 2: that Hello Sunshine makes a movie out of this. This
Speaker 2: is movie material all the way. And thirdly, can we
Speaker 2: get the girls or Toby on the show. We have
Speaker 2: to get them on the bright side. Oh yes, this
Speaker 2: is iconic.
Speaker 1: We have to give them their flowers.
Speaker 2: We have to. I'm just so happy for them. I
Speaker 2: hope they feel so proud of themselves. This is such
Speaker 2: a huge achievement.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I feel like this is going to set them up
Speaker 3: for the rest of their life too. You know, you
Speaker 3: have like defining moments as a kid, and like gosh,
Speaker 3: should be like, I can beat the boys, or I
Speaker 3: can be in this league. I can compete just like
Speaker 3: right next to the guys and do the thing the way.
Speaker 2: They can walk into a dinner party when they're older
Speaker 2: and be like, yeah, I was on an undefeated all
Speaker 2: girls team that played in the boys league.
Speaker 1: They're gonna have the best. Two truths are a lie?
Speaker 2: Oh totally yeah. We love celebrating women's wins. Here on
Speaker 2: the bright side, and we have some exciting news for
Speaker 2: all of our Reese's book Club besties out there, Danielle,
Speaker 2: the may RBC pick is officially here. Let me get
Speaker 2: to announce it on the show today. Mmm mmmm So,
Speaker 2: without further ado, the may Reese's Book Club pick is
Speaker 2: drumroll please, How to End a Love Story by Yuleen Kwang.
Speaker 2: I cannot wait to crack into this one, y'all. This
Speaker 2: looks like the perfect beat read. It has fun, romantic
Speaker 2: summer vibes. This book is Yuleen Quang's debut novel, and
Speaker 2: it follows and Enemy's to Lovers narrative. Okay you following?
Speaker 3: Oh like mister and missus Smith, it sounds like Enemies
Speaker 3: to Lovers that.
Speaker 2: But with writers. Okay, so it's about two writers who
Speaker 2: have a shared and complicated history. One of the characters, Helen,
Speaker 2: is a best selling author, and then Grant is a screenwriter.
Speaker 2: And then somehow they both end up in the writer's
Speaker 2: room of the exact same TV show, and then of
Speaker 2: course drama ensues. If you want to find out how
Speaker 2: their love story ends and actually where it begins, you'll
Speaker 2: have to read the book along with us. Please do
Speaker 2: we want you to be part of this?
Speaker 3: First of all, this sounds so good, but also I
Speaker 3: keep laughing because I'm like, this will never happen for me.
Speaker 1: I work in all women's spaces.
Speaker 3: I'm never gonna meet my enemy turned lover at work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll have to penetrate a male dominated industry. Daniel
Speaker 2: Julien Quang is also actually a screenwriter and director. She's
Speaker 2: worked on shows like the CW's I Ship It and
Speaker 2: Hulu's Dolphace. So yes, we love a multi hyphenit creative. Okay,
Speaker 2: this is hilarious fun fact about this author. She was
Speaker 2: once fired from a Hallmark movie for being too hip
Speaker 2: for Hallmark. That is a badge of honor, Queen.
Speaker 1: Totally too hip for Hallmark. I I'm incredible.
Speaker 2: I'm envious of that firing, like I want that on
Speaker 2: my resume.
Speaker 1: That's also a good two truths, sir Lie.
Speaker 2: All right, I know there are some Emily Henry fans
Speaker 2: out there. Euleen Quang is also the adapting screenwriter of
Speaker 2: Emily Henry's People We Meet on Vacation, and she's also
Speaker 2: that book.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I haven't read it, but I mean it's such
Speaker 1: a fun read.
Speaker 2: Juleen is also the writer director of the forthcoming Beat
Speaker 2: Read film, which makes sense because this sounds like the
Speaker 2: perfect beat reade. We had a really great conversation with
Speaker 2: Claire Lombardo, who was the author of April's RBC pick,
Speaker 2: the most fun we ever had. I got some wonderful
Speaker 2: messages from listeners about that episode. They loved hearing Claire read.
Speaker 2: So that's something that we're gonna have to do is
Speaker 2: get you Leen to read a passage from her book.
Speaker 1: And Claire gave us the tea she really did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the best part of having we get these
Speaker 3: authors on first. Yes, they go through the rumor mill
Speaker 3: online and talk to us about it.
Speaker 2: I know, we're so lucky. So Julien Kwang will be
Speaker 2: on The bright Side at the end of May to
Speaker 2: talk about her novel How to End a Love Story,
Speaker 2: So grab your copy now and send us your questions
Speaker 2: to Hello at the Bridside podcast dot com.
Speaker 3: Simon and I cannot wait to read this one. But
Speaker 3: if you want to read along with us, Reese's book
Speaker 3: Club is offering a Spring gift of reading box. Obviously,
Speaker 3: How to End a Love Story is in it, and
Speaker 3: it's there alongside some really fun, handpicked goodies. We did
Speaker 3: it on boxing on Instagram if you want to see
Speaker 3: everything in there. But these are limited edition boxes for
Speaker 3: RBC fans, so we wanted to let you know about
Speaker 3: them first and you can order them at shop dot
Speaker 3: Reese's book Club dot com. Simone is a favorite product
Speaker 3: in there. I loved the RBC tote bag that says
Speaker 3: booked and busy.
Speaker 2: It's so cute. It's really cute, so clever.
Speaker 3: And then I'm a lip tint lipoil, lip gloss lip
Speaker 3: balm girl and they had Merits tinted lipoil in there,
Speaker 3: which was it was a great color.
Speaker 2: So pretty. I have to say I love the brass bookmark.
Speaker 2: It feels like you're taking a lap of luxury if
Speaker 2: you're someone who typically dog ears your book pages like
Speaker 2: I do. I mean, I feel like I jumped several
Speaker 2: tax brackets by just using this brass bookmark. It's truly
Speaker 2: incredible and life changing.
Speaker 1: It really is. It's thin and it's thick, and it's fabulous.
Speaker 2: It's weighted. You slide it in there like butta, It's
Speaker 2: just the best. Oh. Also shout out to Shuga FINA's
Speaker 2: Riptide Raspberries Gummies lack of gummies.
Speaker 1: Talk about luxury.
Speaker 2: If you're curious about what else is inside. Danielle and
Speaker 2: I posted a video where we are unboxing the whole thing,
Speaker 2: so check it out. I'm at Simone Boys on Instagram and.
Speaker 1: I'm at Danielle robe RBA. Y.
Speaker 3: All right, Well up next, Danielle Bayer Jackson is here
Speaker 3: to talk through friendship problems.
Speaker 1: But don't worry, we also got solutions for you. You
Speaker 1: don't want to miss.
Speaker 2: This, Danielle, We are back with another edition of Asking
Speaker 2: for a Friend. Hey, if you're new to the show,
Speaker 2: Asking for a Friend is The Brightside's take on a
Speaker 2: friendship advice column, where we bring in an expert to
Speaker 2: answer our and your friendship dilemmas. Because even though we
Speaker 2: love our girls to death. Joyful relationships take work, y'all.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they do, and it's not a bad thing. Danielle
Speaker 3: Buyer Jackson is here to tell tell us how to
Speaker 3: do the work. Danielle is a friendship coach, the host
Speaker 3: of the Friendship Forward podcast, and the author of the
Speaker 3: upcoming book Fighting for Our Friendships, which is out next week.
Speaker 3: So ahead of her book launch, Danielle is back on
Speaker 3: the show to share her friendship philosophy and show us
Speaker 3: how healthy conflict is the real key to making our
Speaker 3: friendships deeper, stronger, and more fulfilling. So, Danielle Buyer Jackson,
Speaker 3: Welcome to the bright Side and a huge congratulations on
Speaker 3: the book.
Speaker 2: Welcome, Danielle.
Speaker 4: I'm so glad to be back. Thank you so much
Speaker 4: for having me. Everybody's been so supportive, and I'm really
Speaker 4: excited to dig into some hot topics with you all
Speaker 4: today because it's always a good time.
Speaker 3: They're extra spicy today because we feel like we know
Speaker 3: you no, So get ready.
Speaker 2: This is a no holds barred interview. Now, Danielle, do
Speaker 2: you ever still struggle with friendship problems or have you
Speaker 2: reached full friendship enlightenment?
Speaker 4: Could you imagine if I was like, oh, I totally
Speaker 4: reached full of mind.
Speaker 2: I would believe you. I would take you at facetyl
Speaker 2: you and I would believe you. Oh no, no, no.
Speaker 2: I am a woman out in the world.
Speaker 4: With her own complexes and ego stuff and sensitivities, and
Speaker 4: I'm out here figuring it out too. I think doing
Speaker 4: this work has made me bolder and we're courageous in friendship.
Speaker 4: But I'm still working out my stuff too, and I'm
Speaker 4: grateful to have women who are very patient with me.
Speaker 2: Danielle. In your book, you write about how disagreements can
Speaker 2: be productive and the ways they can bring us closer together.
Speaker 2: We're used to working through conflict and family and romantic relationships,
Speaker 2: but in friendships it often feels like a deal breaker.
Speaker 2: Why is that?
Speaker 4: I think for a lot of us, we have been
Speaker 4: raised with the anticipation of conflict in every other context.
Speaker 4: We know we're going to get into it with our boo,
Speaker 4: and we just know we're gonna have to work through
Speaker 4: it right with our family and even at work we
Speaker 4: have performance reviews, like we have these touch point moments
Speaker 4: to talk about how are things going. But for some reason,
Speaker 4: with friendship, we subscribe to the idea that like easy
Speaker 4: and organic, so that when there is conflict we take
Speaker 4: it as evidence that we must not be as close
Speaker 4: as I thought. But we can reframe conflict is an
Speaker 4: opportunity to meet a need or solve a problem. Don't
Speaker 4: we think that as two people bringing different interests boundaries
Speaker 4: needs to the table. At some point they're going to
Speaker 4: clash and we have to work through it. So we've
Speaker 4: got to make room to anticipate the same kind of tensions.
Speaker 2: You write about the differences in how men and women
Speaker 2: respond to conflict and friendships. Can you say more about that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know it sometimes seems like I'm generalizing here,
Speaker 4: but I report what the research has to say. And
Speaker 4: one of the differences between men and women is for men,
Speaker 4: they seem to have fewer social consequences for being perceived
Speaker 4: as quote unquote difficult. So it's nothing to call their
Speaker 4: friends out of his name, or to punch him in
Speaker 4: the face, or to be like, bro, what you did
Speaker 4: last night was not cool and not have a feel
Speaker 4: like a threat to the relationship. But for women, we
Speaker 4: know that there will be social consequences to being perceived
Speaker 4: as drama, to being perceived as difficult. We are constantly
Speaker 4: managing our appearance of looking cooperative, and so we just
Speaker 4: continue to be silent because we are often praised for
Speaker 4: being cooperative and we don't want to rock the book.
Speaker 3: I really want to touch on these mismatched expectations because
Speaker 3: I've personally experienced a lot of tension come up around weddings, birthdays,
Speaker 3: special occasions where there are expectations that aren't being met.
Speaker 3: What does setting expectations in friendship even look like?
Speaker 2: Oh, that's good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's tricky from the onset because friendship is the
Speaker 4: most ambiguous relationship we have. With a romantic partner, we
Speaker 4: know the predetermined life expectations, right with kids with your mother,
Speaker 4: we know how this works. But with friendship, it's like,
Speaker 4: are we ranking each other the same in closeness? Do
Speaker 4: you expect me to invite you? Or would that be clany?
Speaker 4: There's so much ambiguity, so you want to reduce the
Speaker 4: ambiguity as much as you can. If anything, it's more
Speaker 4: urgent for you to do it in friendship because we
Speaker 4: are kind of negotiating it as we go along.
Speaker 3: I think you're really hitting on something here, because we
Speaker 3: all know what these expectations look like with.
Speaker 1: Our moms, our partners, even at work.
Speaker 3: We kind of know what these expectations look like, but
Speaker 3: I'm actually not sure I understand what they look like
Speaker 3: around friendship because they look different for me than maybe
Speaker 3: my friend.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Well that's the thing. I think you hit
Speaker 2: on it, Danielle. It's Danielle. I'm gonna call you Robe
Speaker 2: for the sake of this conversation. I think you hit
Speaker 2: on it. Robe. The expectations vary from friendship to friendship,
Speaker 2: so that's where we can butt up against those feelings
Speaker 2: of resentment if those expectations aren't met.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I think just kind of bridging the gap
Speaker 4: during organic opportunities is really helpful. So, for example, if
Speaker 4: you have a friend who doesn't call and check in
Speaker 4: and you're like, I feel like that's basic, how do
Speaker 4: I kind of let her know that without it feeling
Speaker 4: like an accusation that that's kind of what I expect
Speaker 4: and friendships, So even saying like, hey, I really love
Speaker 4: our check ins, like it's so much fun and I
Speaker 4: wish we could do it kind of like more often.
Speaker 4: Are you down for like a Friday morning catchup every week?
Speaker 4: But I'm letting you know, this feels normal to me,
Speaker 4: This feels good to me. Are you open to meeting
Speaker 4: me here? And I think many of us would be
Speaker 4: surprised that most times they are.
Speaker 3: Part of what I like about your work is you
Speaker 3: never suggest punishment, So you don't call somebody and say like, hey,
Speaker 3: I'm really bummed you're not doing X, Y and Z.
Speaker 3: You're saying, hey, I'd really like to chat more like.
Speaker 3: It's more of an ad on instead of a takeaway.
Speaker 4: You know, it's because we want people to respond well,
Speaker 4: and at the heart of it, it is I miss you,
Speaker 4: I desire more of you. The average person doesn't really
Speaker 4: respond well to the other approach, right, somebody being like, oh,
Speaker 4: you didn't invite me. Oh, I guess you can't call me.
Speaker 4: Most people aren't responding that. So to say like, oh, man,
Speaker 4: I would have loved to join you next time you go,
Speaker 4: you know, think of me like I would love to come.
Speaker 4: You know, most people can pick up on the message,
Speaker 4: Oh she wants more, she wants to be included, and
Speaker 4: sometimes it gets a better response.
Speaker 2: I used to be that girl who would secretly have
Speaker 2: FOMO and just never confront people about it, and I
Speaker 2: think it I think social media makes it harder because
Speaker 2: I mean, just being honest, I still experience it from
Speaker 2: time to time whenever friends get together and I don't
Speaker 2: get included or they're going on a trip. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's just right there in your face. With social media.
Speaker 4: Oh, totally from like a sociological aspect, I'm looking around
Speaker 4: to see what are the norms. I'm trying to gauge
Speaker 4: in my own track. So sometimes we have to check ourselves,
Speaker 4: maybe especially with social media. Go outside and touch some grass,
Speaker 4: right to like recalibrate.
Speaker 2: We say touch grass almost every episode on the right side,
Speaker 2: Like you're feeling depressed, go touch grass, you're hungry, go
Speaker 2: touch grass.
Speaker 1: Don't do it if you're allergic to grass.
Speaker 2: We really do believe in the touching grass method of
Speaker 2: coping here at the bright side. But that raises a
Speaker 2: really great point. How do you know when it's time
Speaker 2: to touch grass and let it slip or bring up
Speaker 2: something that's been bothering you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a great question because it's hard to know. Okay,
Speaker 4: is it in my head? Am I just being overly sensitive?
Speaker 4: The first thing I'd like to encourage people to look
Speaker 4: at is what is it costing you? Because every decision
Speaker 4: you make is costing you something. So if you've decided, Okay,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna be silent and say nothing, are you growing
Speaker 4: and resentment becoming passive aggressive? Are you withdrawing? It's going
Speaker 4: to cost you something. So how's that been working out
Speaker 4: for you? And also, has your friend been kind of
Speaker 4: like receptive to feedback in the past, if she's normally
Speaker 4: been open to it, those are some signals that she's
Speaker 4: developed over the course of your friendship of oh, you
Speaker 4: can share here, you're safe to let me know because
Speaker 4: the right people they want that data on how to
Speaker 4: love you. Well, so if I'm telling you, hey, when
Speaker 4: you do this thing, I don't know, it feels kind
Speaker 4: of icky. The right people are relieved that you gave
Speaker 4: them information that they're doing something that makes you feel unsafe.
Speaker 4: And so I think some of us are reluctant to
Speaker 4: lean into that because we don't know how it will go.
Speaker 4: But we have to keep in mind that with the
Speaker 4: right people, it's always worth it.
Speaker 3: Do you think it's even if it's the wrong person,
Speaker 3: it's worth it. Like, I've always been of the mindset
Speaker 3: that you have to do what feels right for you,
Speaker 3: and how someone receives your apology or your words is
Speaker 3: kind of up to them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh totally. I can say, you know what, I
Speaker 4: don't feel good sitting on this. I have to express myself.
Speaker 4: I have to be honest and the perfect world it's
Speaker 4: received well, but if not, it's a bummer that she
Speaker 4: didn't take it well. But I can at least be
Speaker 4: proud of myself for speaking up authentically and honestly, and again, ideally,
Speaker 4: hopefully the right people receive it well, and if not,
Speaker 4: it's nothing to regret because you're maintaining sen sence of integrity.
Speaker 2: I have one friend that comes to mind. This is
Speaker 2: really heartbreaking, but she says she doesn't want to hang
Speaker 2: out with me because she doesn't always want to feel
Speaker 2: like the friend who doesn't have it together, Like she's
Speaker 2: tired of feeling like a friend who's struggling. And I
Speaker 2: was really really tough to hear because she's someone that
Speaker 2: I've been friends with for a really long time, and
Speaker 2: it makes me wonder am I not showing up for
Speaker 2: her enough? But I check in with her a lot
Speaker 2: because I know that she's struggling, and I'm just like, hey, girl,
Speaker 2: how are you just checking in sending a lifeline. So
Speaker 2: I don't know that's tough. That is tough.
Speaker 4: I feel like it's also a reminder of just how
Speaker 4: much of our personal stuff we bring to friendships, Like,
Speaker 4: even if a friend is supportive, affirming, encouraging, I still
Speaker 4: got to work through my own blocks, mindset, sense of worthiness.
Speaker 2: So last time you were here, you mentioned that it
Speaker 2: takes work to build an authentic connection with a friend,
Speaker 2: and you've actually developed a practice called a door to
Speaker 2: help with that. Can you talk us through what that means? Yeah?
Speaker 4: So I like to argue that dealing with conflict should
Speaker 4: start way before you have one, right, So we should
Speaker 4: be creating an environment where people feel safe to speak up.
Speaker 4: You can be vulnerable here, and we've developed some strong
Speaker 4: things so that when we do have these with attension,
Speaker 4: it kind of acts as a buffer and absorbs some
Speaker 4: of that. And so there are practices we could be
Speaker 4: doing all of the time to keep those friendships strong.
Speaker 4: So the adore practice is just like a nice acronym
Speaker 4: to help us remember what can I tangibly do every day,
Speaker 4: every week to keep this strong. So the A stands
Speaker 4: for appreciation, which I know sounds super simple, but the
Speaker 4: research finds that the people we often say thank you
Speaker 4: to the least is the people we're closest to, because
Speaker 4: we assume you ought to know that's obvious, but they
Speaker 4: need to hear I appreciate you. The D stands for desire.
Speaker 4: How do we express platonic desire? Inviting you out, sending
Speaker 4: you texts, initiating How do I show my friends I
Speaker 4: want you and you are top of mind for me?
Speaker 4: The O stands for openness, so this is like vulnerability.
Speaker 2: Are you open?
Speaker 4: Do you share? Especially for women because self disclosure is
Speaker 4: the glue of women's friendships. The R stands for liability,
Speaker 4: which includes like trust, How do I show you you
Speaker 4: can count on me? I got you, I remembered those
Speaker 4: things you said last week. I'm following up. You can
Speaker 4: count on me? And finally E stands for experiences. You
Speaker 4: need shared experiences. And it's really hard to get around
Speaker 4: the role that spending time together plays and deepening a friendship.
Speaker 4: So if you're ever finding yourself stuck on oh, I
Speaker 4: want to be a better friend, I just don't know
Speaker 4: what to do, these are some directions to help us
Speaker 4: get started.
Speaker 2: Desire is a word that I tend to associate with
Speaker 2: romantic relationships. Why is it important for us to feel
Speaker 2: desired in our friendships too, you.
Speaker 4: Know, because I think feeling wanted and feeling like we
Speaker 4: belong as a basic human need. But I just think
Speaker 4: we take a lot of things for granted. And we
Speaker 4: mentioned earlier kind of at the top of the show
Speaker 4: about how friendships can be so ambiguous, so I think,
Speaker 4: if anything, they need that reassurance most so, how do
Speaker 4: I show my friends, Man, I really missed you this weekend,
Speaker 4: or we missed you at the party. You totally should
Speaker 4: have been there. It's not the same without you. These
Speaker 4: things show I want you. I don't have an attitude
Speaker 4: of like I can take or leave you. This shows
Speaker 4: I actively desire your company, I desire to have you
Speaker 4: in my life. And sometimes you just have to make
Speaker 4: it plain.
Speaker 3: I think resentment builds up in any relationship, especially if
Speaker 3: you let it ste for too long. What do you
Speaker 3: think about bringing up old fights?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 3: Can you still bring up something you're resentful about years later?
Speaker 1: Do you need to get over it?
Speaker 4: You know, I know it's different situation a situation. I'll
Speaker 4: say two things. The first is, I do think you
Speaker 4: have to determine how much of your resentment is your
Speaker 4: stuff and how much is her stuff? Because sometimes we
Speaker 4: put our stuff on our front and it's like you
Speaker 4: need to move on, or that's things because that's a
Speaker 4: you thing. There's nothing I can do about that. But
Speaker 4: there are times when it's like, man, I never got
Speaker 4: that apology. I don't have reassurance that she even cares,
Speaker 4: and it's always this lingering question and it gets in
Speaker 4: the way of our closeness. If you've determined that it's
Speaker 4: a her thing and not a you thing. I think
Speaker 4: it's totally okay to say, Hey, I know this is
Speaker 4: totally random and this is from so long ago, but
Speaker 4: something that continues to bother me is what happens in
Speaker 4: twenty seventeen. And I hope I don't come across as petty,
Speaker 4: but I have noticed that it's something that keeps me
Speaker 4: from like connecting with you, and I just wanted to
Speaker 4: ask you about it. And again, hopefully friends are willing
Speaker 4: to entertain that because they don't want those kinds of
Speaker 4: things to get in the way, and it might be
Speaker 4: an opportunity for them to provide the clarity you need
Speaker 4: to kind of have some peace.
Speaker 1: I love that clarity leads to peace.
Speaker 3: Okay, I think now's a good time to take a
Speaker 3: quick little break, and when we come back, let's hear
Speaker 3: some questions from our bright side besties.
Speaker 2: Stay with us. We're back with author and friendship coach
Speaker 2: Danielle Bayer Jackson. So we've all been talking about conflict.
Speaker 2: Let's get real about yours. We've got some real live
Speaker 2: listener questions. Our first is from Sydney in sho She says,
Speaker 2: I've had a friend I've known for a few years now.
Speaker 2: She's someone I met through work but then developed a
Speaker 2: pretty close relationship to. We're both scorpios and get along
Speaker 2: really well. We're now in our thirties and I feel
Speaker 2: like we're in more of an EBB stage rather than
Speaker 2: a flow. She's been going through a lot personally, and
Speaker 2: I know she's been working through how to deal with everything.
Speaker 2: Not to mention, she's also unhappy at her job. She's
Speaker 2: always been someone to unload her baggage on her friends,
Speaker 2: but lately it's been a little much. She hates her
Speaker 2: job and talks about the same repeat offenses all the time.
Speaker 2: And we're in the same industry, so she feels like
Speaker 2: I'm a good ear, How do I go about telling
Speaker 2: her I can't handle hearing her rants anymore without being unsupportive?
Speaker 4: Okay. The reason why this is so tough is because
Speaker 4: the research tells us that the number one thing women
Speaker 4: look for and their same sex friendships is emotional support.
Speaker 4: So I think, kind of, in the back of our minds,
Speaker 4: we know that if we are seen as unsupportive, it
Speaker 4: might spell the end of the friendship, because that's what
Speaker 4: women expect. But I also know that second hand stress
Speaker 4: is a very real thing and that a friend continually
Speaker 4: bringing you the same things can really physically be detrimental
Speaker 4: to you. So the next time your friend brings you something,
Speaker 4: it's totally okay to shift the conversation without being dismissive.
Speaker 4: So that might look like hearing her out for the
Speaker 4: hundredth time and saying things like, oh man, this is
Speaker 4: really hard because I feel torn. On one hand, I'm
Speaker 4: seeing you so upset and that makes me upset. But
Speaker 4: on the other hands, I feel like, you know, we've
Speaker 4: been talking about it a lot, and maybe kind of
Speaker 4: staying in this state, do you want to like think
Speaker 4: through things to kind of solve the problem, because I
Speaker 4: hate seeing what it does to you, and honestly, I
Speaker 4: don't know what I can do to help at this point.
Speaker 4: I call that telegraphing your dilemma. I'm going to tell
Speaker 4: you why I'm stuck in the middle. I hate seeing
Speaker 4: you like this, but I also want to kind of
Speaker 4: like get us out of this girl. What can we do?
Speaker 4: And it's not dismissive, but also showing up for your
Speaker 4: friend doesn't equal I have to end door every tie
Speaker 4: rade on this six month long roller coaster. There has
Speaker 4: to be able to be some room for both.
Speaker 3: Okay, next step, we have Brittany from Portland. Brittany says,
Speaker 3: I have a friend in my life who I have
Speaker 3: absolutely adored. Almost since we first met. We developed a
Speaker 3: really strong connection, almost like having an immediate chemistry with
Speaker 3: a crush. She and I would talk almost every day,
Speaker 3: even though I was usually the one reaching out to
Speaker 3: start the conversation. She's always been pretty receptive to our
Speaker 3: communication style, but it definitely does not match my own.
Speaker 3: I'm constantly wanting to talk to her and to see her,
Speaker 3: but she doesn't always make me feel like that's how
Speaker 3: she feels too. Lately, it's feeling like this is pretty
Speaker 3: one sided, but she's not communicating anything directly. I'm not
Speaker 3: trying to force the friendship, but it feels like she's
Speaker 3: telling me with her actions that I'm too much.
Speaker 1: How should I move forward?
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a common one I hear is about not
Speaker 4: feeling like things are reciprocal, or the fear of being
Speaker 4: too much. I think that's deep within a lot of us, right.
Speaker 4: We don't want that confirmed. If you're suspecting that a
Speaker 4: friend might be overwhelmed by you, or disinterested or not
Speaker 4: as invested despite multiple attempts to reach out, it's totally
Speaker 4: okay to say, hey, you know, I know I've reached
Speaker 4: out the last couple of times to go to brunch
Speaker 4: and to get together, but the last thing I want
Speaker 4: to do is overwhelm you. So let me know when
Speaker 4: you're open to meeting up. I would love to connect now.
Speaker 4: I know that can feel like giving your power away,
Speaker 4: or people say putting the ball in her core. But
Speaker 4: if you have made multiple attempts to get together and
Speaker 4: this person's not meeting you there and they're not negotiating
Speaker 4: with you, like the friends who are saying I can't
Speaker 4: meet you here, but here's what I can do. I'm
Speaker 4: looking for that the friend who's putting you off or
Speaker 4: consistently unavailable. Kind of like what we said earlier, you
Speaker 4: might have love for her, but at the end of
Speaker 4: the day, your friendship goals might not be compatible.
Speaker 2: I think that love bombing exists in platonic friendships too,
Speaker 2: where things are just too strong, too fast at the
Speaker 2: beginning of a friendship, and I think that that can
Speaker 2: kind of set things off on the wrong path.
Speaker 4: Oh, one hundred perc Like, fast friends, especially with women,
Speaker 4: is very much a thing where the chemistry is high,
Speaker 4: the flow of conversation is high, you're sharing things, you
Speaker 4: feel seen, the energy is high. I mean that is
Speaker 4: a very real thing, and you're absolutely right that it
Speaker 4: can kind of set the tone of like, oh, this
Speaker 4: is our pace, this is the norm, this is what
Speaker 4: we do. So is it possible they have a person
Speaker 4: burned out? Or is it possible that they were just
Speaker 4: kind of like in it for a moment but then
Speaker 4: over it. One hundred percent possible. I always lean to
Speaker 4: the fact that we could speculate all day as to
Speaker 4: why this person is kind of like faded out. All
Speaker 4: we can operate with is what we can control. If
Speaker 4: you feel foolish having reached out eighty five times, and
Speaker 4: you're like, Okay, I'm gonna let her know, no hard feelings,
Speaker 4: but also I can't do this anymore and wait and
Speaker 4: wonder and be anxious. Hopefully she can relieve you of
Speaker 4: that by offering assurance, but if she can't, it's time
Speaker 4: to move on with people who are a little more reciprocal.
Speaker 4: You can't be the thirsty friend. You just can't.
Speaker 2: Nobody likes a thirsty friend.
Speaker 3: Well, I actually think about it as compatibility. I think
Speaker 3: about dating as compatibility too, unless as chemistry, because like,
Speaker 3: if somebody is not feeling you, you have to just
Speaker 3: say thank you, because down the line, something else is
Speaker 3: going to pop up with them because they're feeling something
Speaker 3: that's incompatible that you're not feeling yet.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's so good. And yeah, a lot of
Speaker 4: it is subjective, right, because you might think, oh, gosh,
Speaker 4: she's too much and for somebody else for like, she's
Speaker 4: just right, you know. So I always say, you know,
Speaker 4: it's all subjective, but also to keep your ear open
Speaker 4: to themes and the feedback you received. But if my
Speaker 4: mother and my boyfriends and my friends have all said, hey,
Speaker 4: that's a lot at some point, I do have to say, Okay, well,
Speaker 4: how why might they be experiencing me that way? So
Speaker 4: if I'm hearing a theme of feedback that hey, I'm
Speaker 4: feeling kind of overwhelmed by that, I have to determine, oh,
Speaker 4: that might be an inside jab.
Speaker 2: Self awareness is essential for happiness and contempting. Y'all all right?
Speaker 2: Last question for today comes from Casey from Houston. Here
Speaker 2: we go. My friend is constantly seeking out relationships. If
Speaker 2: she's not in a relationship, she's got a crush. If
Speaker 2: it's not a crush, it's like a one night stand.
Speaker 2: She's always got some romantic situation she wants to talk about,
Speaker 2: but it's usually the same issue. She's looking for this
Speaker 2: ideal person but hasn't found the one yet. She recently
Speaker 2: just got back into a relationship with someone she claims
Speaker 2: is the love of her life. Their long distance and
Speaker 2: not much has changed in their relationship, but they're still
Speaker 2: trying again. She's recently gone through some major personal struggles
Speaker 2: that I feel make her need to be connected to
Speaker 2: someone even more. I really want her to be happy,
Speaker 2: but I don't think I want to be the one
Speaker 2: that she bounces all her boyfriend issues off of So
Speaker 2: how do I politely wish her well but also ask
Speaker 2: not to be consulted anymore. I did this with a friend.
Speaker 4: How did your friends? What did they say to you? Well,
Speaker 4: I don't like to be overt.
Speaker 1: I like to be more like covert.
Speaker 3: I said, I love you so much, and I really
Speaker 3: feel like you're in so much pain, and it's more
Speaker 3: pain than I even know how to help be with.
Speaker 3: Here's the number to a therapist I've worked with in
Speaker 3: the past. I feel like she could be really helpful,
Speaker 3: and then I just stopped answering calls as much because
Speaker 3: I really didn't have bandwidth for it.
Speaker 2: I can also relate to this. I have been the
Speaker 2: proxy therapist for friends more times than I like to count,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, listen, I am so underqualified for this
Speaker 2: right now. I need you to go outsource this because
Speaker 2: I can't help you.
Speaker 4: You know what I love about that response, though so much,
Speaker 4: is there's like a little bit of playfulness. But I
Speaker 4: also just told you my limit. And sometimes we're so
Speaker 4: serious all the time. I think to say, like, girl, okay,
Speaker 4: I want to support you ideal, but this is like
Speaker 4: out of my scope, Like I really cannot help you.
Speaker 4: And I feel bad about it, but at this point
Speaker 4: I think talking to insert person here might be more helpful.
Speaker 4: And I know even this is tricky because I know
Speaker 4: sometimes friends are like, no, no, I'm not looking for advice.
Speaker 4: I just like want to like that, you know, And
Speaker 4: I think it's totally okay to say, like, hey, I'm
Speaker 4: with you, but we've seen this before. The last thing
Speaker 4: I wanted for you to think, I'm not being supportive
Speaker 4: but a nervous that he's going to take you down
Speaker 4: the same path as before, and that's gonna be hard
Speaker 4: for me to watch. So are you okay with my
Speaker 4: support just looking like xyz? That weighs less of a
Speaker 4: question of whether or not I'm supporting you. I'm letting
Speaker 4: you know what my support's about to look like, and
Speaker 4: so that kind of frames I'm still here for you,
Speaker 4: but unfortunately it's gonna look like this for me. And
Speaker 4: that is boundaries.
Speaker 1: That's really beautiful.
Speaker 2: The B word we all love. Danielle. You touched on
Speaker 2: a goofy girl hypothesis that I have, and that is
Speaker 2: that laughter and levity are sometimes the best tools to
Speaker 2: navigate conflict and friendship. Is there any truth to that?
Speaker 2: Like just being like, hey, let's take a step back.
Speaker 2: I know things got a little tense. Let's find the
Speaker 2: humor in this. Let's try to laugh it off and
Speaker 2: realize it's not that deep.
Speaker 4: I think that's my personal way of handling conflict, too,
Speaker 4: is to be like, okay, girl, we this is I
Speaker 4: don't know what you met last night by what you said.
Speaker 4: Now help me out now, because I'm trying to understand,
Speaker 4: you know, like some level of playfulness, because I think
Speaker 4: sometimes we're so reluctant to even have the conversations because
Speaker 4: in our brain we picture it as the formal sit down.
Speaker 4: We're about to read off a sheet of paper all
Speaker 4: our new boundaries, and that is scary. So to kind
Speaker 4: of draw from the playfulness that's always sustained this friendship,
Speaker 4: we can kind of have tough conversations in this space
Speaker 4: in this way as well. It's consistent with our friendships.
Speaker 4: But I think sometimes that can add a lightness that
Speaker 4: makes it easier to digest.
Speaker 2: What's the silliest disagreement you've ever had with a friend?
Speaker 4: I don't know. I think she listens. I think she
Speaker 4: listens to the podcast, and I don't know if she
Speaker 4: thinks it was silly, okay, but I'll say that we
Speaker 4: got through it. I think we can kind of laugh now.
Speaker 4: I can laugh now. I think she's catching up. Can
Speaker 4: we get any more details?
Speaker 2: Code names, anything, code places, code instances.
Speaker 1: Oh, she's not putting her friend up blast.
Speaker 2: I am an investigative journalist, Dan Yelle put some respects
Speaker 2: on my.
Speaker 1: Way now, a friendship expert. She knows our boundaries.
Speaker 2: I'll say this.
Speaker 4: I'll say a recent silly one that I think got
Speaker 4: kind of tense was we were analyzing Love as Blind
Speaker 4: via text and we were going back and forth and
Speaker 4: I gave an analysis of what I thought was wrong
Speaker 4: with one of the couples, and I think she got
Speaker 4: offended by it. She like was kind of being short
Speaker 4: in the stop texting. And then we talked later and
Speaker 4: it turned out she was offended. I'm like, these people
Speaker 4: are not our life.
Speaker 1: No, no, like that's a her problem.
Speaker 4: So that was like a silly thing that she genuinely
Speaker 4: got offended for. But you know, it is what it is.
Speaker 3: Did you determine that to be a her problem or
Speaker 3: did you take accountability?
Speaker 4: I think that was her problem. I don't think I
Speaker 4: said anything wrong. I think that was my analysis of
Speaker 4: the cast members of Love Is Blind, and I think
Speaker 4: I was absolutely right, you know, and she'll see.
Speaker 2: That one day, not Love Is Blind being a homewrecker.
Speaker 2: This is just cracking me up.
Speaker 3: Danielle, thank you so much for coming back to the
Speaker 3: bright Side. We're just so lucky to have you. We
Speaker 3: have so much fun when you're here.
Speaker 4: Oh, I'm so glad to be here. I mean, the
Speaker 4: conversation is so important, so think you all for facilitating
Speaker 4: a moment to chat this through.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Danielle.
Speaker 3: Danielle Buyer Jackson is a friendship coach, podcast host, and
Speaker 3: author of the upcoming book Fighting for Our Friendships, out
Speaker 3: May seventh. You can find it wherever you buy your books,
Speaker 3: especially our favorite local bookstores.
Speaker 2: Big shout out to Sydney, Brittany and Casey for opening
Speaker 2: up and sharing your questions with us. Let us know
Speaker 2: how it all goes, and we'll be back with more
Speaker 2: asking for our friend soon. So send your friendship questions
Speaker 2: our way. Our email address is hello at the brightsidepodcast
Speaker 2: dot com. I always love whenever she comes on the show.
Speaker 2: I learned so much and I feel like we're always
Speaker 2: just brimming with questions like we can't. Yeah, we can't
Speaker 2: keep them inside.
Speaker 1: They'll never be enough.
Speaker 3: And we also have so many opinions. I just keep thinking,
Speaker 3: like fight, fight, fight, like. I love the idea of
Speaker 3: fighting for friendships in a healthy way because we think
Speaker 3: of conflict as harmful, but it's actually helpful.
Speaker 2: You know what stuck out to me this time was
Speaker 2: that dynamic of her stuff versus your stuff. Like, if
Speaker 2: you just pass everything through that filter every time you're
Speaker 2: going through a conflict, it's a really great way to
Speaker 2: remain self aware.
Speaker 1: Here's the problem.
Speaker 3: Sometimes you think it's her stuff and it's your stuff,
Speaker 3: or vice versa.
Speaker 2: That's why you need to be more self aware.
Speaker 1: I think that's why you need a friendship coach.
Speaker 2: Well, we know one. You're in luck.
Speaker 3: That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're getting the Tea
Speaker 3: on the met Gala. Is it Gala or Gala? I
Speaker 3: don't know TVD, but we're getting the tea on it
Speaker 3: with Internet personality and pop culture anthropologist blakely Thornton.
Speaker 2: Subscribe and listen to the bright Side on the iHeartRadio
Speaker 2: app or wherever else you get your podcasts. I'm Simone
Speaker 2: Boyce and you can find me on Instagram and TikTok
Speaker 2: at Simone Boye.
Speaker 1: I'm Danielle Robe.
Speaker 3: You can follow me on Instagram and TikTok at Danielle
Speaker 3: Robe R O B A Y.
Speaker 1: We'll see you tomorrow