WEBVTT - Civic Cipher 042421 Ramses Ja and Q Ward 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.400 Welcome to another episode of Civic Sidher. I'm your host, 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:03.200 rams is Jah. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:07.600 The name is Ward Quentin J. But my friends call 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:08.280 me Q. Yes. 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:15.560 Indeed, a lot to talk about on today's episode. 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:16.800 We've been doing a lot of. 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:23.360 We've been doing our job, and unfortunately the job is 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.040 sometimes overwhelming, and because we have an hour per week 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:32.680 with you, we don't get to touch on everything that 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:35.519 deserves to be touched on. And so today what we're 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:37.960 going to do is take a moment. We're going to 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:40.200 catch up with at least the things that have happened 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:47.120 in the past maybe six or eight days, and really 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:53.040 give some context and give our thoughts and you know, 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:58.840 figure out what we're going to do now. At this point, 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:03.120 I'm not going to pretend like this is going to be, 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:06.160 you know, my favorite show, you know, the happiest show 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:09.320 I've done. I'm talking about things that have already happened, 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:13.760 things that I have no control over. We're going to 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:16.760 be talking about people who've lost their lives at the 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:20.920 hands of we'll call it what it is, white supremacy. 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:24.319 We'll talk about people who've lost their lives at the 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:30.000 hands of a criminal justice system top to bottom in 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:36.800 its entirety that stomps on the necks of black and 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:42.040 brown bodies. It chews us up and it spits us out. 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:48.160 And now it's our responsibility to discuss that. 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:48.640 And so. 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:51.960 You know, I might be in rare form, but you know, 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:54.760 this is what I signed up for. Qu this is 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:59.640 what you signed up for, So you have to forgive me. 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:01.600 I thought it was going to be mentally prepared for 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:06.120 when these mics turned on, but it feels like kind 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:07.640 of tough to get out of the blocks here. It's 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:11.000 a little sticky, but you know what, here we go. 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:22.160 The thing that happened this week that was the most 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:30.920 historic was, of course, the verdict in the Derek Chavin trial. 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:36.960 You know, we were hoping for there to be some justice, 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:43.880 you know, for the life of George Floyd that we 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:51.200 saw taken on video. And I don't think I'm wrong 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:54.840 in saying that we didn't expect for there to be justice. 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:57.240 We expected this guy to go home and continue living 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:58.560 his life. Because that happens. 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:01.400 What was it? What was the statistic you quoted Q 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:09.520 seven and fifteen thousand, Okay, explain that and the last 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:17.160 fifteen thousand cases of people murdered. Let me pause people 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:24.680 killed by police officers. Seven of those police officers have 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:28.200 been charged and convicted. 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:33.639 Now I worry that you're saying fifteen hundred and it's 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:34.920 coming out fifteen thousand. 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:38.880 I'm worried that I'm saying fifteen thousand, and it's more. 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:44.600 I can try to do some research before the end 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:48.480 of the show to confirm that that's accurate. But I'm 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:50.760 more nervous that I'm saying a number that's too small. 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:57.840 And in either case, it shows that the odds are 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:01.600 stacked against us in the pursuit of justice when it 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:05.200 comes to these sorts of things. And I know a 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:08.280 lot of folks that are on the other side of this, 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:12.680 they're thinking, is you know, why make such a big 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:19.039 deal out of what the police do when there's so 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:28.599 much crime and there's so many murders that have black 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:30.640 people on both sides of it, neither of which are 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:36.479 police officers, wears their reaction to those murders. And you know, 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:39.039 and I've mentioned this before on the show, it's that, 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:45.200 you know, nobody is happy when someone loses their life. 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:48.279 We all, as human beings, at least in theory, should 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:50.960 recognize that our life is precious. In the lives of 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:55.680 those around us are precious. Our fellow man, our countrymen, 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.000 our brothers, and our sisters that we share this planet with. 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:06.320 And if someone you know, takes a life, the expectation 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:09.000 is that that person will be held accountable for that. 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:13.840 They'll stand trial, they'll be judged, you know, and a 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:16.440 sentence or a punishment will be handed down if they're 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:21.520 found guilty. And the thing is, when the police do it, 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:25.000 there's never any accountability. The police almost always get off. 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:28.640 And that's why there's such a big reaction to police killings, 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:33.880 because it's a blatant disregard for black life, almost exclusively. 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:39.719 And so I hope that that helps frame the gravity 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:42.080 of this verdict and why it was so important for 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:46.680 all of us that had to watch it. We sat 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:48.479 around and wait for the verdict, and we had no 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:51.240 faith in the criminal justice system, and we shouldn't have. 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:57.680 The criminal justice system has never been very fair, very 0:05:57.680 --> 0:05:59.400 I shouldn't even use that word. Has never been fair 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:04.680 period to black people in mass You know, you might 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:07.880 find a couple of examples where somebody had made out okay, 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:11.680 but you know, for the most part, it's kind of 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:14.000 like the healthcare system and a lot of the other 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:18.679 white supremacist based systems and institutions where there it doesn't 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.880 inspire a lot of confidence from black people because for 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:28.280 the most part, it exists to serve one group of 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:30.200 people and everyone else is just there to feed it 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:38.760 money and there's really no respect. But in this instance, yes, 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:46.320 the verdict was guilty on all three counts, and you 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:51.880 might be thinking, well, why don't you sound happier, Ramses, 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:58.120 that's what you wanted, Ramses. Where everything is moving in 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:04.520 the right direction, Ramses. But it might have been two 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:12.880 hours after that verdict that Q you told me about a. 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:19.880 Fifteen year old that was killed, So tell that story. 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:25.400 You mentioned the idea of being prepared when the mics 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:31.960 came on today, and I text you in the wake 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:36.960 of the announcement of the verdict that when we got together, 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:40.800 I was going to be nervous driving to you every 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:46.800 time I saw a squad car, a police car. And 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:50.520 if any of you are listening and wondering, why listen 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:55.280 to the show? More right, the number of examples that 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:58.360 we've given you know, in case you in case you 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:00.640 just honestly aren't you know, tapped getting in that way 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:04.760 and paying attention in that way. The reasons why are 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:10.360 incredibly obvious. And as we sat and waited for that 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:18.280 verdict to be announced with nots in our stomachs because 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:23.520 a murder that we watched on television, a murder that 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:28.040 hundreds of millions of people have seen, we still weren't 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:31.840 sure that the person that committed the murder would be 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:36.320 convicted of it because our law enforcement gets to operate 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:41.199 in that space with impunity and complete and utter disregard 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:45.280 for the lives of people that look like us, very specifically. 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:53.440 So there's no such thing as being ready right to 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:55.840 discuss the things that we have to discuss today. But 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.560 we kind of knew what we had in front of us. 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.080 But before before I could get from sending that text 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:04.640 and getting in my car and coming to the studio 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:09.839 and us having our pre show conversation about the things 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:14.960 that we knew we had to discuss, we learned that 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:22.840 a young lady in Columbus, Ohio. And please forgive me 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:26.560 if I pronounced this this young queen's name incorrectly, but 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:34.360 I think it's Macaiah Bryant of Columbus, Ohio called nine 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:41.520 one one out of the fear of being assaulted, she 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:44.600 had a knife to protect herself, and when the officers arrived, 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:50.080 without question, without de escalation, without conversation, four shots to 0:09:50.120 --> 0:10:02.320 the chest, and murdered this fifteen year old girl. So 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:05.800 if you ask why, in the wake of guilty on 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:10.800 all three counts, our voices don't sound more celebratory, the 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:14.520 first explanation would be because someone being convicted of a 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:19.760 murder that they did on TV should not call for celebration. 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:25.200 It should be the very obvious outcome. It should be 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:31.040 the absolute minimum we could ask or hope for. It 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:36.200 shouldn't be some triumphant moment in American history that a 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:38.880 man that murdered someone in front of the world was 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:43.839 convicted for that murder. However, a lot of us knew 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:47.040 even while this was being announced, and there was a 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:49.480 little bit of relief of that ans in those knots 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:54.760 in our stomach, that this wasn't some huge victory because 0:10:54.800 --> 0:11:00.439 the whole time this trial was going on, men, we're 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:06.720 being murdered by police officers on video, and not just 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:13.640 black men, black babies, black children, and brown babies and 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:23.520 brown children. You guys may have heard me say this 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:26.360 to rams this more than once. It is very very 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:33.320 difficult for me to be hopeful about where this country's going, 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:39.960 about how the world our children become adults and will 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:44.000 look and how they will be looked at. And it's 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:48.640 very very hard for me to be hopeful because every 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:52.680 piece of evidence presented to me tells me a different 0:11:52.720 --> 0:12:00.400 story at their most scrutinized moment of their lives. I'm 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:05.000 speaking of necessarily all of law enforcement in this country. 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:08.160 They're under the most scrutiny, most of them, of their 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:14.840 entire careers, and on their own cameras they're murdering us, 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:20.720 not just the camera phones that we pull out, So 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:22.439 they don't even pretend they didn't say, oh my god, 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:28.040 everybody's looking. Let us at least pretend to be just, oh, 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:32.199 you guys are looking. Let us show you what we're 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:43.440 willing about. So it's really really difficult to look at 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:47.480 my son, to hold him and kiss him and say Babe, 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:51.600 I'll be back, and actually one hundred percent believe it, 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:59.760 because I have to hope that for whatever reason they 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:03.400 dic side, I don't get pulled over, and that if 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:07.760 I do, that they're in a good enough mood to 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:12.280 not kill me. As I'm being as submissive as possible 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:20.280 to assure this outcome. I feel like. 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:28.480 There's something that we haven't done on this show. And 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:31.640 if you're listening to my voice, I would appreciate your input. 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:31.920 You know. 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:33.720 I know a lot of folks listen on the radio, 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:37.600 a lot of folks download the podcast, you know, folks 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.319 watch you know on YouTube. You know, however, you get 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:44.520 the show. But everyone has access to us. This is 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.760 all of our show. Q and I are just the curators, 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:50.520 I suppose, but this this show is for all of us. 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.960 Even if you're a part of the white supremacist system, 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:56.000 this is your show too. This is so you can 0:13:56.080 --> 0:14:03.120 learn how to be better to your brothers and sisters. Originally, 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:07.560 when we sat down and you know, wanted to do 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.200 this show, that we had this idea that. 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:12.640 We were going to. 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:15.920 Provide a stage and be able to have some dialogue, 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:20.080 to create an environment where folks can come and sit 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:28.760 and we can learn about each other. And obviously there's 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:31.920 a voice that has not been in the room, and 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.200 that's the voice of law enforcement. You know, we haven't 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:38.640 had any police or any any officers up on the 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:43.600 show yet. And I've gone back and forth with you know, 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:46.960 should we because we're looking at this and we're trying 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:52.440 to make sense of it, and you know, my impulse, 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:54.720 my gut impulse, is to say, yes, we should. And 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.320 I've had conversations with some and it may still happen, 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:04.720 and I'd love your input. But there are some times 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:09.080 when I'll find some information and it'll be from the 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:14.600 officer's point of view, and it's very officer like, you know, 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:18.200 it's very black and white. The nuance, the you know, 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:22.840 the context, it's very much lacking, and oftentimes it's based 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:26.280 in fear. And one of the things that I've learned 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:28.960 is that fear begets fear, you know, And if you 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:34.560 use fear, because it's a primal component of who we are, 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:38.880 you can tell yourself and perhaps even convince other people 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:44.400 of some stuff that will really overshadow what the root 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:49.800 of the problem is, you know. And I've really gone 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:54.680 back and forth, but I really do want your input. 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.800 If you're listening to our voices, you know, should we 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:03.640 open up the lines of communication and and sit down 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:07.240 with some officers and really talk to them about all 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:21.280 of this stuff, because I'm not sure what else we're 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:26.400 going to do, you know, I'm I'm really glad that 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:33.200 you hold fast to the idea of fear in this climate, 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:37.320 in this space, with these interactions, because you know, I 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:40.120 push back on it. Yeah, right, like the idea that 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:42.920 you're afraid of the person that's running away from you, 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.720 so you kill them. I have a very hard time 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.680 digesting that, right. But the more you say it, the 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:54.680 more I hear how a person could internally weaponize that 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.920 fear and then blend it with the hate that they 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:00.880 already have. But it looks like fear everyone else, and 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:03.000 so then they're like, well, of course he was afraid, 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:04.919 and it's like, we're not dealing with the rid of 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:05.399 the problem. 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:09.919 Yeah, it's And you've even mentioned to me the idea 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:14.320 of having someone from law enforcement on the show, and 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:15.879 I feel the same way as you. I feel like 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:21.400 it's necessary. I I just wrestle with it. Yeah, because 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:24.120 we're still in it, Like we're still we're still dealing 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:27.400 like it, Like you're talking about fear. I have it now. 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:32.159 Of course I hate saying that out loud, but I 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:36.320 have real life fear. You know when I when I 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:42.080 text you, I text our producer Ryan. I'm not joking 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:44.520 when I say when I get in my car to 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:50.280 come here that I'm uncomfortable because I've watched people who 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:57.600 were not in some criminal activity. Right. Yeah, our young 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.000 brother got pulled over because he had an Air Force 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:06.560 rushener hanging from his rear view mirror. He's gone. And 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:08.800 then after the fact, you can be whatever person they 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:11.080 say you were. You read the the I just saw 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:15.840 the police report from the initial police report from George 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:25.720 Floyd's murder. They can paint you to be paranoid, drug induced, panicked, enraged, aggressive, strong, 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:29.879 and try to justify whatever the outcome is when the 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:37.280 only witnesses them. So this space really sucks. The obvious 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:39.960 answer to your question is yes, we need to have 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:44.320 someone right that We've said to each other a hundred times. 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:47.440 This cannot be an echo chamber, and there's no point 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:49.880 in having this show if we don't get to hear 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:53.919 from people whose ideas and believes are different than ours. 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:59.640 Somebody's got to go first. But man, like I when 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:01.959 you initially asked me about that, I remember you presented 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:04.439 the idea to me and I'm like, yeah, definitely, And 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:06.960 then I thought about it for five seconds and I'm like, well, 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:17.960 and that will came from fear apprehension, discomfort. I really 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:20.800 wish that wasn't the case, and I wish that wasn't true, man, 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:24.359 But you can only absorb so much trauma and so 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:26.960 much obvious hate. 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:34.399 Well, you know, there's so Another thing that happened this 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:37.840 past week is you know, I didn't get any of 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:40.600 these people's names, but there was a video. I'm sure 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:42.200 we have it up on one of our sites, so 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:45.560 if you want to follow us, we're at Civic Cipher. 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:50.480 On all platforms. But there was children. They were riding 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:54.120 their bikes. Yeah, in New Jersey, in New Jersey, right, 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:58.199 and there's a video of this and the officers. You 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:03.159 know it. 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:12.080 It's so hard to imagine the same story playing out 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:13.119 if those are white kids. 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:16.560 It's hard to imagine because it doesn't happen. You have 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:19.919 no your mind doesn't have a baseline for that. It 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:22.720 has no there's no content up there in your imagination. 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:25.840 It's never seen anything like that. We've seen superheroes. We 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:30.720 haven't seen that. A kid getting arrested because he doesn't 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:35.600 have a bike license, arrested, bike taken, put in handcuffs, 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:37.960 put in the back of a police car, not cited, 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:41.359 not giving a warning, not having a conversation, but seven 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:44.439 eight squad cars pull up on five or six kids 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:47.880 on bicycles, and the crime they've committed is they don't 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:52.959 have bicycle licenses, which I've never heard of in my life. 0:20:53.080 --> 0:21:08.360 I spent my entire childhood on a bike. It's a. 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:18.840 Sad reality that you know, and we've learned this ourselves, 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:25.520 that you don't really have to do anything wrong because oftentimes, 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:28.120 as you and I both know and have experienced while 0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:29.960 in each other's presence, because it happened to both of 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:36.440 us that again in our personal experience. We're not generalizing here, 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:37.399 this actually happened to me. 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:41.399 This is not this is not anecdotal that you know. 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:46.280 It is very possible and perhaps probable. 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:46.760 That they will. 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:53.119 They meaning law enforcement, will pick and choose which laws 0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:59.159 apply and the ones that you can refute immediately. They'll 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:03.320 they may see them to you and pick a few others. 0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:05.600 You know. We have a We have a good friend 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:08.760 who was pulled over. 0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:13.200 He actually recorded this interaction and police were talking about 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:16.960 he had his he turned his brights on on his uh, 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:22.399 I think he had a newer range rover, and he 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:25.560 says to the police, well, this car turns the brights 0:22:25.600 --> 0:22:28.120 on automatically. I didn't turn them on. I was pulling 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:28.399 out of it. 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:31.200 Again, the headlights are on auto, yeah. 0:22:30.840 --> 0:22:32.680 And so it doesn't He's like, I didn't touch it. 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:34.760 And the officer's like, well, you ran a stop sign, 0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:37.040 you know, And he's like, I didn't run a stop 0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:37.560 sign or whatever. 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:41.680 Yeah, whatever, whatever it was. And so you know, these 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:44.960 these kids on past that car, that car passed me, well, 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:48.800 and you see, and then and in our and our 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:52.040 personal experience, obviously we've seen the same thing happen, and 0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:54.480 so I don't think it surprises me. It's just sad 0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:56.919 that you know things like this will happen, and that 0:22:57.000 --> 0:23:00.560 it's so difficult to imagine it happening to anyone else, 0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:02.760 anyone else, you know, you think of the It's so 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:06.600 funny because if you're not black, if you're not Hispanic, 0:23:06.720 --> 0:23:08.720 there's a good chance that you grow up thinking that 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:10.600 the police are the good guys, they're the heroes that 0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:14.760 come and help out. And it is literally the exact opposite. 0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:15.119 For me. 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:18.280 I've never there's never been a time in my life 0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:20.280 when the police have been anywhere near me, and it's 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:27.560 made me happier. And I've lived thirty eight years. I'll 0:23:27.560 --> 0:23:31.679 be thirty nine soon. And I get that in principle, 0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:34.359 Like I watch movies, you know, I see it. You know, 0:23:34.400 --> 0:23:36.560 the cop movies. You want the cop to win. You know, 0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:38.680 I've seen you know, Bad Boys and all. You know 0:23:38.720 --> 0:23:41.760 what I'm saying. Obviously bad Boys, you're looking at mart 0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:43.719 Lawrence and Will Smith, so you definitely want them to win. 0:23:43.760 --> 0:23:45.879 But you get what I'm saying here. It could be 0:23:45.920 --> 0:23:48.240 a I don't know, pick another cop movie, it doesn't matter, 0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:51.679 but you get that in theory, the police are the 0:23:51.680 --> 0:23:59.320 good guys. But in the real world it feels very 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:04.080 close to well, it feels like when they show up, 0:24:04.119 --> 0:24:06.679 I have to immediately prove to them that I'm not 0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:08.480 the person that they're looking for. 0:24:08.600 --> 0:24:12.000 Or immediately vacate the premises. 0:24:12.000 --> 0:24:14.919 Or that, or as as you mentioned, I have to 0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:20.399 be as non threatening and I have to like fully submissive. Yeah, 0:24:20.480 --> 0:24:26.800 and that feels you know, it's doable. It lacks dignity, 0:24:27.000 --> 0:24:31.000 as we've stated, you know, but it's very doable, and 0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:33.760 perhaps that's the reason why I've had less in the 0:24:33.760 --> 0:24:35.680 way of issues overall. 0:24:36.480 --> 0:24:37.760 But it's still. 0:24:39.200 --> 0:24:41.240 One of those things that just kind of comes with 0:24:41.280 --> 0:24:47.240 the territory, and so we're going to talk about how 0:24:47.280 --> 0:24:49.919 that applies to a few more examples, uh in just 0:24:49.960 --> 0:24:53.160 a few moments. But first, if you're just tuning in 0:24:53.200 --> 0:24:55.440 to Civic Sipherarmy host Rams's. 0:24:55.119 --> 0:24:59.800 Jah, the name is Ward Quentin J. Ram just likes 0:24:59.840 --> 0:25:04.320 to I like that one. 0:25:04.800 --> 0:25:07.000 And one of the things that we did get to 0:25:07.040 --> 0:25:10.880 talk about last week, which I want to I want 0:25:10.880 --> 0:25:13.560 to do a quick shout out to Shelley who came 0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:17.000 up on the show and we discussed, you know, the 0:25:17.040 --> 0:25:19.880 Stop Asian Hate initiative and all the things that she's doing. 0:25:20.000 --> 0:25:22.640 Shella, thank you so much for being a fantastic guest 0:25:22.720 --> 0:25:25.280 and for offering us a point of view and some 0:25:25.320 --> 0:25:29.480 insight that we couldn't possibly offer on our own exactly. 0:25:29.960 --> 0:25:33.520 Please check that show out if you missed it, at 0:25:33.520 --> 0:25:36.560 Civiccipher dot com. But during that show, we didn't really 0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:40.040 get a chance to really dig too deep into what 0:25:40.240 --> 0:25:44.160 happened with Dante Wright, which is the gentleman, the young 0:25:44.200 --> 0:25:46.280 man who's twenty years old who got pulled over because 0:25:46.280 --> 0:25:49.879 of either an air freshener or expired tags, whatever the 0:25:49.880 --> 0:25:54.040 case is, and then ultimately lost his life. And I'm 0:25:54.080 --> 0:25:56.119 not sure if we got to go cover this. But 0:25:56.400 --> 0:25:59.399 one thing I do want to say while we're here is, 0:26:01.320 --> 0:26:04.320 you know, when I say that a lot of the 0:26:04.320 --> 0:26:06.400 the police reports and all those sorts of things, they 0:26:06.480 --> 0:26:13.800 lack context, lack nuance. What I mean is, you know, 0:26:13.800 --> 0:26:17.040 if you grow up poor in an impoverished environment because 0:26:17.080 --> 0:26:22.840 of socioeconomic factors and because of historic you know, factors 0:26:22.840 --> 0:26:24.760 that have caused you and your family and the people 0:26:24.800 --> 0:26:27.919 that look like you in your town to live in 0:26:28.000 --> 0:26:30.239 a certain part of town and to not have as 0:26:30.320 --> 0:26:33.280 much wealth as other folks. You know, and these are 0:26:33.280 --> 0:26:35.520 all things that you can research. Google is super free. 0:26:35.720 --> 0:26:38.439 You understand that a lot of the wealth, if not 0:26:38.480 --> 0:26:43.639 all of it, it is in some way connected to 0:26:43.760 --> 0:26:46.639 a slave field in this country. And a lot of 0:26:46.640 --> 0:26:50.040 the modern wealth is a result of you know, redlining. 0:26:50.520 --> 0:26:52.480 Please look those things up if you're not familiar with them. 0:26:53.000 --> 0:27:03.040 But those economic conditions create environments where there is and scarcity. 0:27:03.080 --> 0:27:07.760 You know, you find more crime in areas where there's 0:27:08.080 --> 0:27:10.560 less to go around. That's just a fact of life. 0:27:10.840 --> 0:27:16.000 It's the fact of the human condition. So you know, 0:27:16.160 --> 0:27:19.359 black and brown children can be born into impoverished communities 0:27:19.400 --> 0:27:24.760 because you know, that's what allows a lot of the 0:27:24.800 --> 0:27:27.360 white folks in this country to live as well as 0:27:27.400 --> 0:27:30.560 they do or have the opportunities that they do. 0:27:30.600 --> 0:27:31.920 Again, I'm not. 0:27:31.800 --> 0:27:34.040 Trying to start nothing, but I'm just calling it what 0:27:34.080 --> 0:27:39.840 it is. It's a spade, and those environments are rough, 0:27:40.520 --> 0:27:45.320 and in those environments, people often try to figure out 0:27:45.359 --> 0:27:49.960 ways to increase the likelihood that they'll make it home, 0:27:50.160 --> 0:27:52.959 that they'll survive, et cetera, and on and on and 0:27:53.000 --> 0:27:56.119 on and so it is not the strangest thing in 0:27:56.119 --> 0:27:58.480 the world that someone who lives in that environment might 0:27:58.560 --> 0:28:01.480 have a gun to protect himself, which is exactly what 0:28:01.560 --> 0:28:06.679 happened with Dante Wright in my belief. But you know, 0:28:06.760 --> 0:28:09.560 the way the stereotypes are is that, well, if he's 0:28:09.640 --> 0:28:11.280 black and he has a gun, he's a gang banger 0:28:11.280 --> 0:28:12.320