WEBVTT - Bonus Episode - Elon Musk’s "Twitter Files" Are A Whole Lot of Nothing 0:00:01.600 --> 0:00:04.360 So this week Elon Musk announced what he was calling 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.800 the Twitter Files, where he gave internal Twitter documents and 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:11.280 emails to journalist Matt Taiebee and op ed author Barry 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:16.920 Weis to supposedly drop some bombshells into Twitter's content moderation 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:19.800 policies before he took over the helm. But the whole 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:23.280 thing was pretty underwhelming, and on my other podcast there 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:25.840 Are No Girls on the Internet, I broke down all 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:27.920 the reasons why I felt like the whole thing was 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:29.760 just a big stunt, and I wanted to share it 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:32.920 here with Internet hate machine listeners too. I should add 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:35.559 that Musk has teased that more of these jobs are 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:39.080 to come, so we shall see if anything more substitutive 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:46.080 ends up being revealed. There Are No Girls on the Internet. 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:48.600 As a production of My Heart Radio and unbost Creative, 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:55.080 I'm Bridget Todd and this is there Are No Girls 0:00:55.080 --> 0:01:00.200 on the Internet. So it has been a wild couple 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:02.560 of weeks at Twitter since Elon Musk took over, and 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:04.880 to talk through all of it, I'm joined with my 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:08.960 producer Michael Almado. Mike, thanks for being here, Bridget, thanks 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:11.760 for having me back. What is a pleasure So This 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:15.600 might come as a surprise to you. I try pretty 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:18.240 hard not to talk about Elon Musk too much on 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:22.480 the podcast, uh, from being in meetings and calls and 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:25.560 stuff with you to make the show. That's probably surprising 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:27.200 to you because I know that you know, I have 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:32.319 a lot of feelings and thoughts and opinions about Elon Musk. Yeah, 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:36.800 he's pretty hard to avoid these days. It's true, and 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:39.360 I guess I feel, you know, when making the show. 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:41.320 The reason why I try to limit how much I 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:44.160 talk about him is because I just don't think it's 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:48.960 really helpful to report on or respond to every little 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:52.520 thing that someone who clearly wants attention says or does. 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:54.560 I feel like I learned this the hard way. When 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:57.080 Musk was first talking about buying Twitter, you and I 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:00.640 rushed to put out an emergency episode. We stopped what 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:02.960 we were doing. It was like a stop the press moment. 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:06.080 And you know, after that episode ran, I think it 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:07.800 was like months and months and months and months and 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:10.760 months until he actually bought Twitter. And during that time, 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:12.679 it will be like he would say, oh, the deal 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:15.200 is off, and everybody would rush to report on it 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:17.640 and respond, and then it would be like Oh, the 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:20.160 deal's back on, and everyone would rush to report on 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:23.400 that and respond. And I think it's a strategy that 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:27.040 people like Musk employ that allows for them to set 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:30.080 the tone. And it's just I don't think that being reactive, 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.000 always reacting to the things that they say, every little 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:35.680 move they make, is the most helpful mode to be 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.480 in because I think ultimately it really serves them in 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:42.360 setting the agenda and capturing attention, which is clearly something 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:46.160 they want. Yeah, I think it's a useful strategy for 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:49.840 people like him and like Trump. Uh. And I think 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:52.640 also it's a useful strategy that just happens to align 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:58.680 with their own personal UH needs to constantly be the 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:02.920 center of attention and to constantly control the narrative and 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:05.919 have people, you know, jumping and reacting to what they 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:13.000 say to fill that void where other people feel love. Yikes, 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:16.400 just coming at the gate with a one to punch 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:20.160 on Musk's inability to feel love. Okay, Wow, damn, we're 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:23.000 off to a good start off to the races. Sorry, 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.280 that wasn't my intention that. It's just it's it's been 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:27.760 a real evolution for me the last couple of weeks 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:30.120 about him, But that's that's not what this episode is about. 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:32.320 I don't mean to distract. I mean it might be 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:35.960 a little bit right. And so again I try really 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:38.840 hard to to avoid just reacting to things that that 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:41.680 is little stunts, because people who pull stunts, they want 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:44.560 you to react, they want you to respond. But this 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:48.240 past weekend something happened that really felt like a direct 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:51.600 hit to my work and a direct direct kind of 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.720 I feel like, you know, um, if you watch Housewives, 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:58.240 when Kenya Moore says, don't come from me unless I 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:01.680 send for you, I feel sent for as Kenya Moore 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:04.680 would say, And he brought up something that I actually 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:07.400 have quite a bit of personal experience on and I 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:10.840 felt kind of compelled to talk about on this podcast. Yeah, 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:12.800 I know you do have a lot of experience in 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:14.760 this area, and you don't talk about it on the 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:18.560 show much. And so the fact that you, I think, 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:21.560 felt so compelled to say something about it really speaks 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:26.680 to that that feeling of being called so you know, 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:31.240 speak it. Let's here. So what's going on? Well, this 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:34.559 past weekend, Elon Musk tweeted that he'd given internal Twitter 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:39.239 documents to journalists, Matt Taibi, calling it the Twitter files. 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.640 To be clear, that's what Elon Musk is like branding 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:44.440 it as I'm not going to be calling it that 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:49.559 because I'm not going to be just you know, doing 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:52.000 his work for him and running with this little branded 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:54.840 thing that he's trying to make happen for him. Um, 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:58.120 but that's what he is calling it. He was very 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:00.880 excited about this. He was t sing it all weekend. 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:04.360 He tweeted, what really happened with the Hunter Biden story? 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:07.960 Suppression by Twitter will be published on Twitter at five pm. 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:11.560 This will be awesome popcorn emoji, right, And so this 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:15.760 is someone who is really drumming up excitement about something 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:19.240 they think is going to be big. He finally got 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:21.880 the opportunity to come up with his own nickname, and 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:24.520 he's so excited for everybody to hear about it. You 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:27.919 can just tell how excited this dude is to be 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:30.680 trying to make this happen, Like he's trying to make 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.280 that ch happen. He is all in this is this 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:35.960 is his thing. So to to talk about what's in 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:38.599 this report, let's back up a little bit. The report 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:42.120 appeared to show intertal debate at Twitter about how the 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:46.080 platform should handle the content of a report on the 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:49.480 laptop that was alleged to belong to President Biden's son, 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:52.800 Hunter Biden, that was reported initially by The New York Post. 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:55.560 You probably recall this story if you were in the 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:58.080 United States and paying attention to domestic politics on the 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:03.400 presidential election. Um, Hunter Biden has dealt with addiction issues, 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:07.040 and this laptop purported to show evidence of all this 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:11.600 unseemly behavior on the part of President Biden's sun Hunter, 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.320 I should say, and it's not clear to me how 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:18.239 this laptop was obtained if it was actually Hunter Biden's laptop, 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.279 and thus there was a lot of confusion around how 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:24.279 folks could you know, responsibly report on it or talk 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:28.040 about it. Yeah, that's I remember that obviously. Uh. And 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:31.360 I I feel compelled to remind everybody that the reason 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:34.960 we know about this Hunter Biden laptop story, which you know, 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:38.120 maybe it was this laptop, maybe not, we don't really know. 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:40.200 You know, I did some research ahead of this show, 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:44.960 and like it's basically unverifiable. Uh, But the reason that 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:48.760 we know about it is because a concerned citizen brought 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:53.119 it to Rudy Giuliani, right, And I think that says 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:55.240 a lot if you think about the source of the 0:06:55.279 --> 0:07:00.280 information being Rudy Giuliani. Earlier this morning, he was at 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:04.400 a hearing here in d C before the bar uh 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:10.800 phasing possible disbardment for his frivolous, ridiculous actions in the 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:17.280 contesting election, and his defense there was that he didn't 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:21.160 have the time to verify that the what he was 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:26.360 failing to court was accurate. And so if he's not gonna, 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:30.360 if he doesn't have the time to verify his legal briefings, 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:36.880 what are we to make of his everything else in 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:38.720 his life. I don't know. I'll just leave it there. 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:40.520 I don't mean to make the story about that, But 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:45.960 anything even connected to Rudy Giuliani, let alone originating with 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:48.800 Rudy Giuliantti, I feel it needs to be taken with 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.960 a pretty big grain assault. Are you trying to suggest 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:54.320 that when Rudy Giuliani is I'm a mix on something 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:55.960 is in the mix on something that it's not on 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:58.120 the up and up. If he's in the mix, God 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:01.640 help everyone. So you can sort of get an idea 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:05.800 as to like why there was a lot of skepticism 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:09.800 and confusion early on around this Hunter Biden laptop story, 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:13.280 and that confusion very much extended to social media platforms 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:17.640 like Twitter. Twitter staff independently decided to block posts about 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:20.320 the Hunter Biden laptop story and prevented people from sharing 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:23.040 the New York Post story in d MS, citing that 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:25.960 the content fell under its hacked Materials policy because at 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:28.440 the time, the thinking was that the content of the 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:31.480 laptop had been obtained through hacking. This decision was made 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:34.640 after a lot of internal debate at Twitter. Uh Tybe's 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:37.160 report shows a lot of back and forth internally at 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:40.120 Twitter about how to moderate tweets about this Hunter Biden 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:44.000 laptop story. Trent and Kidnedy, a Twitter communications official, wrote 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:46.800 an email, I'm struggling to understand the policy basis for 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:49.760 making for marking this as unsafe. H Kennedy advised that 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:52.000 the company should say that it is waiting to understand 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:54.560 whether the New York Post story was the result of 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:56.960 hacked material. I have to say, Twitter, it sounds like 0:08:57.000 --> 0:08:59.720 they really aired on the side of caution here. Um, 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:03.280 you remember that White House spokesperson Kayleie McKinney her Twitter 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:06.079 account was locked for sharing a tweet with the laptop 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:09.120 story in it. Um, Twitter took a lot of heat 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:12.360 about this with conservatives who said that this was evidence 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:15.600 that Twitter and big tech in general was biased against 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:19.720 them as conservatives. Uh. Then Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey spoke 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:23.000 about the backlash publicly saying, we made a quick interpretation, 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:26.040 using no other evidence, that the material in the article 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:28.760 were obtained through hacking, and according to our policy, we 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:32.120 blocked them from being spread. Upon further consideration, we admitted 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:35.400 this action was wrong and corrected it within twenty four hours. Um. 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:38.960 And so again you really see this sort of messy 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:41.720 nitty gritty of this company having to decide in real 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:44.520 time how they were going to moderate this story that 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:47.559 they could not verify and didn't know its origins, and 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:50.559 at a time when everybody was was felt the same way, 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:53.439 like they were not alone in that thinking. So I 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:56.560 guess the question might be like, was this the right call? 0:09:57.400 --> 0:09:59.600 I honestly could not tell you. This is like way 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:03.160 above I pay grade. But I do think that reasonable 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:07.240 people could and do disagree with whether or not Twitter 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:09.520 should have allowed that report about the laptop to be 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:12.400 on the platform. But I will say that it seems 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:15.480 like fairly new ground for a platform to have to 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:19.800 sort out, you know, this kind of situation that is 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:23.600 so potentially sensitive. Right, so I can understand why there 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.040 was some debate about it. I can understand why folks 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:30.320 internally disagreed, why folks externally disagreed. It's really kind of 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:34.240 new territory for a platform to have to sort out. 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:37.200 And the emails really reflect that that there was a 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:40.560 lot of what seems like healthy discourse about how they 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:43.959 should best proceed. Right, So there's two different things. Right. 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.960 You can disagree with the conclusion that they came to 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:50.240 to moderate the content, which maybe that was the right decision, 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:53.000 maybe not, depending on your point of view, but to 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:56.360 take some time and like have a discussion about whether 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:59.480 it should be moderated, Like, there can be absolutely nothing 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:02.240 wrong with that, right, Like they had a discussion about it. 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.920 Just the act of discussing it is not, in itself 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.920 anything nefarious, and to eat to suggest that it is 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:16.480 is really disingenuous. Well, enter the big Elon Musk bombshell 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:20.760 that he dropped. It's gonna change, It's going to change everything. 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:25.200 Nothing will ever be the same. So get this. So 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.320 get this. If you're driving, pull over because it's gonna 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:30.480 be it's gonna blow your mind. I don't want I 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:34.319 want you to be safe. Before Joe Biden was elected, 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:40.680 his campaign staff flagged tweets containing sexually explicit images of 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:45.600 Hunter Biden for the Twitter staff, and those tweets were removed. 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:53.040 I know, I know, cancel the constitution. That's it. It 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:57.520 America is over. So in an email from a Twitter 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:01.920 employee from it included six links to tweets and the 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:05.480 line more to review from the Biden team, the employee wrote, 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:10.600 Another Twitter worker replied handled these. Interestingly enough, Tibe's reporting 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:14.240 did not show the Biden team contacting Twitter over the 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:18.000 initial reporting about the laptop. It was the tweets containing 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:21.400 sexually explicit photos that they were raising an objection over. 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:24.199 So when the first New York Post story dropped with 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:27.080 a laptop, Biden's team did not reach out. It was 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.840 the images with Hunter Biden, you know, nude, that they 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:33.800 were objecting to. Tybe shared five tweets that that the 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:38.240 Biden campaign flagged. Four of those still have archives available online, 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:41.160 and they did include nude images of Hunter Biden. So 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:45.800 these images were already pretty clearly in violation of Twitter's 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:50.040 rules around non consensual explicit images, which specifically prohibits sharing 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.680 images or video that are taken in an intimate setting 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:57.240 and not intended for public distribution. Not to mention, state 0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:00.839 law in California, where Twitter is based, all so outlaws 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:07.720 sharing non consensual explicit images. So essentially, this huge bombshell 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:12.200 that Elon Musk has presented us is that Twitter was 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:17.439 following their pretty clear guidelines about removal of non consensual 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:22.160 nude images and like complying with with California state law. Yeah, 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.600 and the breathless tweet revealing that, you know, did not 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:27.720 include any of that context. You know, it's just like, 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:31.600 here's links to four tweets that were removed, of course, 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:37.240 like smoke and mirrors, suggesting that something more nefarious was 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:41.280 going on exactly. So Elon Musk, after this bombshell revelation 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.160 was dropped, he tweeted, if this isn't a violation of 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.760 the Constitution's First Amendment, what is now? First of all, 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:51.120 Biden was not a government official at the time. He 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:53.880 was still campaigning, right, and so it's not really clear 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:55.880 to me how that would be a violation of the 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.760 First Amendment, which we know regulates how government's control speech. 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:01.680 But you know what I or honestly, who at this 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:05.840 point expects Elon Musk to be either getting or making 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.440 these kinds of distinctions at this point, right. And so 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:11.960 Musk and Taibi say that this was evidence that Twitter 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.840 was in the bag for the Democratic Party and the left. Uh, 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:18.880 they did not provide any evidence of this, but Taibi says, quote, 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:22.520 this system wasn't balanced. And if you're wondering why he 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:25.720 thinks that, well, it's because he says the majority of 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:29.800 Twitter's employees are Democrats. How do you know, because Twitter's 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:35.360 team has greater campaign contributions to Democrats over Republicans. So, 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:38.840 as someone who has done this work for the majority 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:44.160 of my adult life, this is an absolutely wild conclusion 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.080 to jump to for many many reasons that I want 0:14:47.080 --> 0:15:01.880 to talk about after this quick break and we're back. 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:05.840 We were talking about Elon Musk and Matt Taiebee dropping 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:11.760 this bombless bombshell about what they say is evidence of 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:14.600 Twitter and big tech being in the bag for the 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:18.760 Democratic Party and the left. And I have to say, 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:21.600 as someone who has done this work, it's just a 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:25.920 really out there conclusion to jump to. First, of all, 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:29.480 social media platforms, having a direct line of communication with 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:34.200 political leaders is one normal and that is the case 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:39.320 for all major social media platforms. Facebook has them, Instagram 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:43.840 has them, Snapchat has them. It is totally a normal 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.320 commonplace thing, you know. I have done that work professionally, 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:50.640 both from the platform side and the advocacy side. When 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:53.280 I worked at the social media platform Medium, I was 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.320 essentially the person on the political team whose job it 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.880 was to make in roads and connections with political leaders 0:15:59.880 --> 0:16:02.080 and activists and thought leaders on the left. You know, 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:04.960 they could reached out to me with issues and questions, etcetera. 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.640 There was also a counterpart to this work on the 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:09.640 right who did the same thing as me, but within 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:12.400 the Republican Party. Um. It was actually like a very 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:17.000 fulfilling and interesting job. We had lots of like spirited 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:20.720 discussions and debates about content on our team that actually 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:23.280 remind me quite a bit of like the internal emails 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.160 that we saw from this reporting. It's also fun fact 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:30.240 why I attended they seen Republican National Convention and got 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:34.440 to watch Trump officially accept the nomination for president in person, 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:39.280 which is a story for another day. But part of 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.920 the advocacy work that I do now involves communicating with 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:47.240 platforms to hopefully help influence their content moderation decision making 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:50.840 to be less hostile toward marginalized people. Um. A lot 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:53.880 of the time that work looks like flat, like the 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:56.080 same thing that the Biden campaign was doing to the 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.960 Twitter folks, you know, flagging content that we think needs 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.560 to be removed. A lot of times it's like faked, 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:06.120 demeaning misogynistic images of women, women of color, elected officials 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:10.000 like AOC for removal being like, oh, um, actually this 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:16.080 image that purports to show a misogynistic crew drawing of AOC. 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.200 We think this might violate your guidelines. Can you please 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:22.040 remove it? Um? But we also have had some like 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:26.680 really good wins doing this work. You know. Earlier this year, 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:29.800 TikTok agreed to add dead naming and mis gendering to 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:32.879 their community guidelines. Um, we got YouTube to agree to 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:36.159 remove inaccurate information about abortion from their platform. Uh. So 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:40.800 it's it's like fulfilling work. I don't actually bring it 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:44.040 up a ton on the podcast, mostly because it's just 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:48.680 not that exciting, Like it's fairly mundane work, and it's 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:52.080 just yeah, it's just not exciting, you know, completely normal 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.439 and commonplace for folks in these positions to have a 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:58.879 direct line with folks at platforms. You know, we have 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:00.840 flag I have flag things for them that they that 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:02.879 they do not take down, you know. So it's not 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.879 like when you reach out and say, hey this is problematic, 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:08.920 or hey we believe this violates your your your community guidelines. 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:11.120 It's not a guarantee they're going to take it down. 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:14.840 But it's like that tedious work of relationship building for 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:18.919 us for a particular goal, and Musk trying to reframe 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:22.520 that work that so many people do that is totally 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:27.560 commonplace across platforms. Him trying to reframe that as somehow 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:33.640 nefarious or somehow a threat to our democracy is completely wild, 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:37.040 completely wild. Yeah, it really is, especially when you think 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:41.000 about the role of advocacy in a democracy and advocacy groups, 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.480 you know, making the case for their constituencies about issues 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:48.240 that they care about, policymakers trying to get policies put 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:51.920 in place. And you can tell from those emails that 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:54.680 the Twitter team was talking about their policies and how 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:57.160 did this fit within their policies that have been crafted 0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:01.440 to describe this situations in which they would take action 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:04.119 to moderate uh. And even as I'm saying these words, 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:09.320 it sounds so boring, but it's so crucial because without that, 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:11.640 you end up with a situation that we have right now, 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:16.520 where everything is just, you know, whatever Elon Musk decides 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:20.000 about it. Right there's it's not clear what is and 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:23.560 is not allowed on Twitter these days, it's just by 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:29.200 executive fiat. And also all those fiats bring more attention 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:34.120 and news attention to him, which is a win win 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:37.040 for him. I'm so glad that you said that, because 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:39.800 a few weeks ago, I think it was Sam Harris 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.879 asked Elon on Twitter about whether or not he was 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:48.000 going to reinstate Alex Jones, and Alex Jones famously lies 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:51.800 about babies who were tragically shot and killed in Sandy 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:54.840 Hook and lies about their parents, and Elon Musk replied, 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:57.600 I will never allow him back on the platform because 0:19:57.640 --> 0:19:59.480 I had a baby who died, and I held that 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:01.720 baby in my hands, and I know the heartbreak of 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:04.639 a grieving parent, and I actually think that that actually 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:09.800 was one of very few genuine statements about how Elon 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:13.639 Musk is planning on moderating Twitter if he can personally 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:20.000 identify with the group that he is making a moderation 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:23.480 decision around or based on I think that you will 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:26.600 get one thing if he cannot identify with them, if 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:29.399 he cannot put themselves, put himself in their shoes, or 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:32.719 see their experience in his own experience, He's I don't think. 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:34.200 I don't think it's going to be real to him. 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:36.600 And so I think that, to me was the first 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:39.560 honest assessment of how he plans to moderate the platform 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:43.159 is just based on what he personally likes or doesn't like, 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:47.560 what he personally can understand or can identify with or 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:50.760 see himself in or not. And so you know, he 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:54.840 is a white, straight, sis billionaire. I don't know that 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:56.760 he would be able to really see himself in the 0:20:56.800 --> 0:21:00.000 experience of a trans person or a person of color 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:02.720 or a queer person or someone who's not a billionaire 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:05.399 and wants to start a union at their car factory, 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:07.520 right And so I think that really was a pretty 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:11.600 clear indication that exactly what you're saying, it's just whatever 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:14.119 Elon feels that's how we will be moderating. And I 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:17.000 don't think it's a great system, right, Like he is 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:19.560 someone who is going on and on about the need 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:25.160 to build transparency into moderation to restore trust. Let's start 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:27.399 with a little transparency around how he is going to 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:30.840 make moderation decisions. Yeah, and it's also a little bit 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:34.879 like a high school student quoting Voltaire about free speech. 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:38.840 When he's talking about transparency, I think he still thinks, 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:40.800 at least as like a couple of months ago, he 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:45.639 thought the transparency meant making all of Twitter's internal decisions 0:21:46.160 --> 0:21:49.560 uh and algorithms uh, like open source so anybody could 0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:53.119 read it, which is a terrible idea because that just 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:58.640 is like a blueprint for anyone who wants to abuse it. 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:04.440 And so it's this the spot of like reality where 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:08.240 there's like he has the high minded ideals of transparency 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:11.560 and free speech, which are virtuous and good things, but 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:18.240 to actually like implement them in the real world one 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:22.240 needs to have a thoughtful approach, and he lacks that 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:25.160 second part. It's like how all of his tweets with 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:28.400 Poles about what he should do for Twitter and moderation, 0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:32.000 we're all accompanied by Latin, but then like getting the 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:35.360 Latin phrases wrong. It's like you kind of you're kind 0:22:35.400 --> 0:22:37.880 of you almost have it. Like you you're you almost 0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:41.720 have it, you almost had it. You you found the 0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:45.760 Latin quote and you got the gist sort of and 0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:51.440 so speaking of the kind of disingenuous nods to what 0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:56.679 they're calling free speech. Uh. Musk really tried to frame 0:22:57.040 --> 0:23:01.159 this report as a bombshell that show that Twitter is 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:04.560 suppressing the free speech of conservatives on the platform. But 0:23:05.119 --> 0:23:09.359 Tibee's own reporting shows that the Trump administration, while Trump 0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:12.880 was president, made the very same kind of requests as 0:23:12.920 --> 0:23:15.440 the Biden campaign did, and at least some of those 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:19.040 requests were honored, right, And so there's not there's no 0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:23.639 Tibee includes that that information. There isn't any more transparency 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:26.199 or any emails around what those requests would be. The 0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:28.280 public is still just like left to wonder what the 0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:31.919 what a sitting president was successfully able to get removed 0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:36.399 from Twitter. Not not worth scrutiny, not worth this transparency 0:23:36.560 --> 0:23:39.000