WEBVTT - Ibram Kendi isn’t waiting around for equality 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:07.040 Hi everyone, I'm Katie Curic and this is next question. 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:10.880 Dr Evramex Kendy is one of the country's leading anti 0:00:11.000 --> 0:00:14.960 racist scholars, and in fact, everything that Dr Kendy does 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:19.440 as a professor, an author, a researcher, a podcast host, 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:23.159 a human is in an effort to reframe how we 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:27.280 think about racism and how we fight it, and he's 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:31.040 very prolific. In addition to his academic career, he just 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:34.960 co edited a new book called four Hundred Souls. He's 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:39.519 starting a new journalistic endeavor, an online publication centered on 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:44.120 racial justice called The Emancipator, and he's creating a podcast 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:47.400 based on his two thousand nineteen bestselling book, How to 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:51.960 Be An Anti Racist. He is also a Stage four 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:55.040 calling cancer survivor. I think it gives me a level 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:57.520 of urgency. I think that's why some people are like, 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:01.000 why are you doing all these different things? You know, 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:02.920 why don't you wait to do this or that? And 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:07.560 I'm like, wait for when? Even and I talk about 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:10.640 that life changing diagnosis a little later in the show. 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:15.400 I couldn't start our conversation though, without acknowledging that it's 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:19.640 been a year since George Floyd's murder in Minneapolis, a 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:22.920 year since, a nearly ten minute video of his death 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:27.200 reverberated across the country, prompting all of us to look 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:33.480 at ourselves, really look at ourselves collectively and individually. I 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:37.000 asked Abraham if he would share his reflections on this 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:46.600 somber anniversary. So I I wanted the nation to be 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:51.040 at a different place at the one year anniversary of 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:59.360 George Floyd's death. You know, certainly it is good that, um, 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:06.160 the person who murdered him is being held accountable. Certainly, 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:11.600 it is good that there is a larger number of 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:15.480 Americans and indeed people around the world, who are aware 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:19.760 of the existence of systemic racism, who are aware that 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:26.080 there's that there's fundamental problems in American policing. But I 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:31.040 was hoping that we would have begun to make some 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:37.320 pretty drastic changes to actually ah to actually sort of 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:42.440 solve these these systemic problems. And we're we're still in 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:48.400 a moment in which we're arguing over whether even racism exists, um, 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.639 And even though we live in a nation of racial 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:54.520 inequities and you know that are all around us. So 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:59.520 I am I have mixed feelings, you know, I'm elated 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:05.640 that there's this awareness, and certainly more awareness than than 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:09.120 this time last year. But at the same time, I 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:12.799 am frustrated that there hasn't been more action. If you 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:16.680 had a magic wand Abram and you could have said, 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:21.880 these are the changes that we needed to see. These 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:26.680 are the changes that make me feel hopeful about the 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:32.280 future and the present, what would those have been. Part 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:34.440 of this is about policy, and part of is it 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:42.160 about framing. So as a result of the COVID nineteen pandemic, 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:47.160 and even as a result of the economic pandemic within 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:50.480 the pandemic, the number of Americans who've lost jobs, who've 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:56.680 lost businesses, who have fallen into poverty, if we as 0:03:56.680 --> 0:04:01.360 a nation, uh would have not only provided relief as 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:04.560 as we have to a certain extent to two people, 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:08.960 but we would have also said that this relief isn't 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.240 just relief to get people back on their feet, to 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:17.200 get businesses going again. This is also a crime fighting measure. 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:21.719 In other words, the communities, the neighborhoods in our nation 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:28.800 with the highest levels of poverty and unemployment are also 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:32.800 typically the neighborhoods with the highest levels of violent crying, 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:37.800 and we consider the people in those neighborhoods, namely black people, 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:42.000 to be dangerous, when indeed poverty is dangerous, when indeed 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:46.000 unemployment is dangerous, When indeed housing insecurity and food insecurity 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:50.360 is dangerous, and you know, indeed sexual sort of violence 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:54.000 and patriarchy that it stems from is is dangerous. And 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:56.560 so what can we do as a nation to completely 0:04:56.640 --> 0:04:59.800 transform the conditions? And that would have been the start, 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.520 right and and and we would be working on how 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:06.840 do we eliminate again housing insecurity, how do we eliminate 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:10.640 the fact that so many Americans don't have access to 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:15.240 to to quality healthcare um and and we would have 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:19.200 again seen those as not only efforts to help people, 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:24.040 but even efforts to to eliminate violent crime or reduce it. 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:28.479 And I'm saying that because part of what happened to 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:32.880 George Floyd is partially what happens to to to black 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:35.960 people or even black men across this country. We're seeing 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:40.599 as dangerous, We're seeing as the problem. And the solvent is, 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:44.600 you know, more weapons or more armed people in our 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:50.640 communities as opposed to weaponizing against the social conditions you know, 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:52.880 in those communities. And so that's what I would have 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:57.440 wanted us to be thinking that big um and and 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:02.040 and broadly, do you think that they're our hopeful policy 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:08.320 discussions going on right now, Abram about police brutality, about 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:13.400 some of the disparities that were laid bare, not only 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:16.080 as a result of what happened to George Floyd, but 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:22.120 so many police killings involving black people, not just black men. 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:29.680 Are you seeing the seeds of some policy conversations that 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:36.320 you would like to see pushed faster? Further? So? In 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:42.280 ethical New York, a very enterprising and courageous young mayor 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:47.600 just decided that he was going to completely reimagine public 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.680 safety in that city, and that he was going to 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:56.080 essentially let go of the entire police force and completely 0:06:56.160 --> 0:07:00.480 reorganize it to the point in which some obviously officers hired, 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:05.520 but others would be rehired to specifically focus, let's say, 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:08.920 on on on on mental health services or social services, 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:14.080 um and and and So, I think in part of 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:18.840 the reason for that is because upwards at fift of 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.920 people who are killed by police in this country have 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:25.640 a have a mental illness or have a mental disability. Uh. 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:29.640 There's also efforts in places like I believe San Francisco. 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:33.320 And I think it's Berkeley, in which the police are 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:36.600 no longer a large allowed to stop people for traffic stops. 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:41.120 Why because there's so many people who die unarmed uh 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:46.520 during traffic stops, as Dante Wright did in Minnesota. Um 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:52.880 and and then there are certainly efforts to think more 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:57.960 deeply about funding uh and and and I think, you know, Katy, 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:02.280 this is the fundamental question, why are people committing crimes? 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:07.840 Are people committing crimes out of despair and poverty and unemployment, 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:13.360 or people committing crimes because there's something culturally or fundamentally 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:16.720 wrong with them? And how we answer that question is 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.680 going to determine how we sort of, you know, attack 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:23.080 the issue. Um and So there are people asking that 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:26.720 question and and building policy you know, around it. And 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:30.200 I think we need to move away from this model 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:35.360 of whether there are sort of bad apples of good apples, 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:38.840 you know, in American policing. The issue isn't the individual cops. 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:41.640 And I think that's where we trap ourselves because we 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:45.160 all are related to cops. We all know, we've all 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:47.760 interacted with with cops who have helped us. So that 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:49.920 but that's not the issue that the issue is the 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:56.680 fact that, uh, the the American the combined cost of 0:08:56.679 --> 0:09:01.640 American policing is more than every their military in the 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:05.320 world combined, aside from the Chinese and the American military. 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:09.120 That's the issue. So it's not about individual cops, It's 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:12.480 about the structure. As you saw people take to the 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:17.120 streets as the Black Lives Matter movement really gained steam 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:21.440 and momentum following the death of George Floyd, was that 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:27.160 something that you embraced and did it feel as if 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:31.719 America was finally all Americans or many many Americans, not 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:37.600 just sort of the prototypical Americans. The fact that it 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:41.319 did seem to span the racial divide to a certain extent, 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:46.280 was that heartening to you? It was? It was certainly 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:51.000 heartening to me. I mean, the fact that you had 0:09:51.440 --> 0:10:00.520 demonstrations against police violence and systemic racism in every single state, 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:06.240 in almost every single town, uh, no matter it's racial 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:12.040 and economic sort of makeup, um, And I mean certainly 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:16.040 was was was heartening to me, As some observers estimated 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:19.160 that it was the largest series of demonstrations in American 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:23.720 history and um, And so how could you not as 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:27.199 someone like me who's who've been calling on Americans to 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:31.160 to to to to to see the problem not as 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:34.360 bad people, but to see it as as bad policy 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:38.520 and um and as structural racism. How could I not 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:43.000 be heartened? And and indeed, by June of last year, 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:49.000 one survey found that seventies six percent of Americans we're 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:52.720 reportedly saying that racism is a big problem. That's the 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:59.000 highest number ever recorded UM for survey. And and so 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:02.320 we'll we'll never get to a point on any issue 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:06.040 where there's a of agreement. That's the beauty of humanity, right. 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:10.080 We we see things differently, and we have different perspectives. 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:14.520 But but obviously with some critical issues that is facing humanity, 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:19.079 like bigotry, like climate change, like nuclear war, like pandemics, 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:23.320 we have to have a governing majority that recognizes it 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:25.920 as a problem so that we could, you know, keel 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:31.080 from it when we come back anti racism for kids, 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:35.880 while starting the conversation early is so important. That's right 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:51.559 after this, This is so systemic and so foundational racism 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:56.600 in America. And I know that you are working so hard, Abraham, 0:11:56.720 --> 0:12:00.840 to reframe and reshape the way we learn about race, 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:05.400 the way you learned about race, and what was sort 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:08.840 of force fed into you as a young man, and 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.840 you're doing so much in that arena. But tell me 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:15.760 about how you're trying to address this at a very 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:19.920 young age, because it seems to me the more we're 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:24.200 culturally conditioned, the harder it is to unlearn certain attitudes 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:28.240 and behavior. I agree, I made it. You know, we 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:32.640 as adults often talk about how hard it is to 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:36.520 talk about race and racism. Part of that is because 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:39.040 we only really started talking about it as adults. Right 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:44.040 If if we would have been conditioned to talk about 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:47.200 it and conditioned on how we should talk about it, 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.599 you know, from a young age, then I think it 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:52.680 would be easier for all of us. And so part 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:58.120 of for me and ensuring that the youngest of people 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:01.360 are are talking about this so that they have easier 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:05.200 lives than we do right over this specific issue. But 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:09.600 then also they don't grow up like I did, you know, 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:13.640 thinking that that the problem is is black people. By 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:17.760 the time I graduated high school in the year two thousand, 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:23.760 not to date myself, UM, I had consumed a decade 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:29.280 worth of of anti black ideas saying all the things 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:31.560 that were wrong with black people, and I thought those 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:37.160 ideas were true, and I thought, therefore that the problem 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:39.920 that needed to be addressed were people were black people 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:44.000 as opposed to systemic racism. And really, I've spent the 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:49.760 last twenty one year is trying to unlearn uh those 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:52.640 those those racist ideas that have been fed to me. 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.720 And it's been unbelievably difficult. And I only wish that 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:00.280 I would have instead of learning racist ideas, I would 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.080 have learned anti racist ideas, because then I could have 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:04.560 built and I feel like I would have been so 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:08.560 much further along right now in my life. And in fact, 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:11.719 you write very movingly about in many ways you had 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:17.520 to accommodate these anti black narratives from an early age, 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:23.160 and instead of looking at your potential, your potential was 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:28.560 kind of imposed on you. Yeah, and because they think 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:32.160 about it, if in the nineties, if there was ever 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:36.800 a decade in American history where like black youth were 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:41.200 considered the American problem, which so much of American politics 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:45.640 revolved around around black youth. Um, you know, it was 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:49.720 the nineties, and and so if you're constantly being told 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.600 there's something wrong with black youth, and you are a 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:59.560 black youngster and you struggle in any capacity. It's easy 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.040 for you to delete. But I'm struggling in this way 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:06.200 because I'm a black youth, right as opposed to you know, 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:09.240 I'm struggling in this way because I should be working harder, 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:10.840 or I should be doing this, or I should be 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:15.440 doing that, and um and so it. By the time 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:19.320 I graduated high school, I was deeply self conscious, you know, 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:24.600 about even my academic, uh skills, whether I was even 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.880 worthy of college. I only end up graduate applying for 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:31.040 two colleges because I didn't feel that I was worthy 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:34.840 of college. I was shocked when one of the colleges, 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:38.800 the first of the two, admitted me, like literally, I 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:42.280 did not think I was college material. And and you know, 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:44.400 I always wonder how much of that had to do 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:48.640 with this internalized idea that there was something wrong with 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:54.520 people like me. You are now working to to kind 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:58.640 of stop that conditioning and young kids with a picture 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:01.400 book you have The Anti Race Is Baby. You also 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:04.920 have a two thousand sixteen books stamp. From the beginning, 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:09.480 it was just rewritten for middle school students and talk 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:13.760 about what you're trying to do in terms of shaping 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:17.320 their perspective and why that is. I think you really 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.760 just described why. That's so critically important because you want 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:23.800 them to not be in your situation when you were 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:27.040 a high school senior thinking you had no right or 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:32.920 or college material. So talk about those projects. So first, 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:36.720 I think as as caretakers, as people who love young people, 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:44.400 and I have people love young people. Um, I think 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:51.479 it's important for us to recognize that they see racial inequality. 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:56.760 Um it's not hard to see, right, And so they're 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:00.960 going to see that some people, namely white people, have more. 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.760 They're gonna see that other people, you know, let's say, 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:07.959 you know, black and brown people have less. The question 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:12.280 that they're gonna be asking is why. And but they're 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:16.960 also going to live in a society where they are 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:20.080 these messages that are told to adults and young people 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:24.000 that that there's something wrong with black people and something 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:28.400 wrong something right about white people. And so you take 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:32.480 you separate those two and you put them together. Young people, 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:35.800 If we're not talking to them about why certain people 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:38.000 have more and other people have less, will they not 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.400 conclude that white people have more because they are born. 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:44.440 Will they not conclude that black people have less because 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.480 they are less? Will they not then look at themselves? 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:51.760 Will not a young white boy say I'm special because 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:54.520 I'm white, as opposed to I'm special because I'm nice 0:17:55.320 --> 0:18:00.000 or because I'm inquisitive. Well, not a young black girl say, uh, 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:02.199 there's something wrong with me because of the color of 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:06.119 my skin. Will that not affect their development in terms 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:09.119 of whether, you know, self esteem or even conceit. You know, 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:11.240 we don't want our kids thinking to high or low 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:15.920 of themselves. Um, But ultimately, will they have an accurate 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:19.639 rendering of society? Uh? And and and the key to 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:25.560 this isn't you know to teach them that, uh the 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:29.719 opposite of those ideas that you know, white people are 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:32.520 less or black people are more. The key is, well, 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:35.480 you know, this is the result of bad rules that 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:39.080 have favored certain groups of people over the course of 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:41.600 time and still do. Just like you know, you don't 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:46.040 like your curfew or your bedtime. You know their rules 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:50.440 in society that have created these inequalities. And and it's 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:57.200 and and these uh inequities don't just exist between let's say, 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:01.120 black and Native people. They also exist between white people. 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:05.520 In other words, certain wealthy white people have certain advantages 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.399 over certain white poor people, and white poor people are 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:11.440 called white trash. Which is a racialized term, and you 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:14.720 shouldn't think of anybody, any group of people in that way. 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:17.800 And and so there's so many different It allows us 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:22.680 to really get at and explain why inequality exists, and 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:26.720 and and it allows young people to not think that 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:29.880 there's something wrong with people. I I I'm gonna continue 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:32.640 to say this, like, it is so important for us 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:39.480 to teach adults and young people that the groups, the 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.800 racial groups are equals. And that doesn't mean that the 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:46.159 individuals within the groups are all the same. You know, 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:48.240 I know some black folks and white folks who work 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:52.320 harder than me. Right, It's but when we talk about groups, 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:55.520 to say that a particular racial group works harder or 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:58.679 as lazier, or as more gifted or more smarter than 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:02.600 another group, that the problem. Let's talk about the royal 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:07.560 Critical race theory has in this because it's become you know, 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:11.840 a dirty phrase amongst certain segments of the population. And 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:16.639 I think it's quite misunderstood because like so many things 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:21.639 in our current culture, it's become weaponized. So, you know, 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:25.640 I think can we begin by just explaining what critical 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:31.359 race theory is and why it doesn't need to be 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:38.760 a dirty phrase, sure. So, I think critical race theory 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:42.920 emerged in the late nineteen seventies and especially in the 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:48.400 nineteen eighties, specifically among legal scholars and lawyers and activists 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:53.879 who recognized by the nineteen eighties that racial inequity in 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:58.200 housing and education and criminal justice in the environment, we're 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:03.359 persisting after civil rights and and so critical race theorists 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:09.320 then started to examine the structure of policies and power, uh, 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:12.720 many of which were perceived to be race neutral, that 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:17.320 was maintaining the inequity. In other words, the critical examination 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:22.280 of structural racism. And and it wasn't necessarily an attack 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:26.200 on white people, as it's consistently being framed. It was 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:32.080 an attack on structure, on policies, on practices that we're 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:36.199 leading to this inequity, you know, an injustice. And and 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:39.879 I think it's unfortunate that critical race theory, which again 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:43.200 started out in legal circles and now has expanded to 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:48.040 to other circles. One of the personally one of the 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:51.879 most fascinating interventions of critical race theory was was by 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:55.840 Kimberly Crenshaw, who who coined the term intersectionality, in which 0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:59.560 she really wanted us to think about the intersection of 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:02.119 let's say, racism and sexism and the way it was 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:06.639 impacting black women. So you can't really understand what's impacting 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:11.359 these the race genders without understanding both um and and 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:15.640 this gave us the tools to really analyze our society 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:19.480 and the laws, in particular that we're maintaining inequity, which 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:23.240 is why it's sort of derived from legal theory. And 0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:28.560 the governor of Idaho recently signed a bill to ban it. 0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:34.520 What happened? How did critical race theory become a weapon 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:39.760 by the status quo or by certain segments of the 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:48.160 population or political groups. So I think I mentioned earlier 0:22:48.280 --> 0:22:55.320 how last June, seventies six percent of Americans that we're 0:22:55.400 --> 0:23:00.520 recognizing that's just that that racism is a big problem. 0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:05.240 Um And ever since the June there has been a 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:12.840 concerted effort to basically chip away at that highest ever 0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:16.680 percentage of of of of sort of anti racist awareness 0:23:17.400 --> 0:23:21.080 in this country. And this is the latest effort, um 0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:24.360 and and the and and and largely because so let's say, 0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:31.840 for instance, if you are a legislator who recognizes that 0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:34.879 the ideology of the country and the demographics of the 0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:38.680 country are moving away from you such that you can't 0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:43.000 get elected if everyone is easily able to vote. So 0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:45.679 what you're going to do is figure out ways to 0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:49.600 suppress the votes of your political opponents. And if you 0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:54.040 tailor those laws to specifically target black and brown indigenous voters, 0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:56.959 whether they're written into the law or not, those are 0:23:57.040 --> 0:24:00.520 racist policies. But how do you get away with those 0:24:00.640 --> 0:24:04.879 racist policies by convincing your constituents in the American people 0:24:05.440 --> 0:24:09.680 that racist policies don't exist and that actually the real 0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:15.760 problem are those people who are identifying certain policies as racists. 0:24:15.800 --> 0:24:17.639 You know, those are the real racist, the people who 0:24:17.720 --> 0:24:22.199 talk about racism, um, not the policies themselves. So that 0:24:22.240 --> 0:24:26.639 allows you to get away with those policies, uh, continue 0:24:26.640 --> 0:24:30.920 to pass them, continue to think caused people to think, 0:24:31.680 --> 0:24:36.160 uh that that uh, that the problem are those who 0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:40.000 are identifying racism rather than the racism itself. And then 0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:43.639 you're able to convince your constituents, who now it's harder 0:24:43.680 --> 0:24:46.879 even for them to vote, that those policies are not 0:24:46.920 --> 0:24:51.000 only good for them, but they're also not racist. And 0:24:51.000 --> 0:24:52.919 and so to me that it's part of a larger 0:24:53.080 --> 0:24:59.119 plot and plan to establish sort of a very small 0:24:59.200 --> 0:25:03.240 segment of people bull controlling the rest of us. Is 0:25:03.280 --> 0:25:10.800 it the the last gasp of a white patriarchal system. 0:25:10.880 --> 0:25:15.800 I'd like to hope so. Um and I like to 0:25:15.840 --> 0:25:23.240 hope so, because even the white patriarchal system white men, 0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:26.760 for instance, many many millions of white men right now 0:25:26.800 --> 0:25:30.479 are not benefiting from it. Uh. You know, and to 0:25:30.480 --> 0:25:35.360 give an example, you know, we have this epidemic right 0:25:35.400 --> 0:25:39.000 now that we're not talking about of white male suicide 0:25:39.000 --> 0:25:42.560 by hand gun. Uh. And the levels of white men 0:25:42.640 --> 0:25:46.240 who are who are dying be a suicide by handgun 0:25:47.000 --> 0:25:49.760 are at the levels of black men who die by homicides. 0:25:50.480 --> 0:25:53.119 Um and And so why is that and where is 0:25:53.160 --> 0:25:58.960 this primarily happening? This is primarily happening uh in states 0:25:59.000 --> 0:26:02.520 that are controlled by politicians who primarily say they're defenders 0:26:02.520 --> 0:26:06.239 of white men. Right. And I'm going to make it 0:26:06.320 --> 0:26:09.320 easier for you. I'm gonna make sure that you know 0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:11.760 you have your Second Amendment rights. I'm gonna make sure 0:26:12.560 --> 0:26:15.120 you have access to guns so you can protect you 0:26:15.200 --> 0:26:18.840 and your family and your your quote women from those 0:26:18.880 --> 0:26:22.240 black criminals, those Latino X immigrants, and those Muslim terrors. 0:26:22.359 --> 0:26:24.720 So then people they're able to get guns and now 0:26:24.720 --> 0:26:29.320 they're killing themselves and uh and it's a tragedy. You know, 0:26:29.359 --> 0:26:32.960 it's a tragedy that continues to happen, just as you 0:26:33.000 --> 0:26:37.680 have so many white working class uh men who were 0:26:37.840 --> 0:26:41.520 devastated by this pandemic and this previous presidency. You know, 0:26:41.560 --> 0:26:46.000 at the same time they are imagining that that certain 0:26:46.000 --> 0:26:51.959 elected officials are seeking to benefit. Then we become so tribalistic, 0:26:52.720 --> 0:26:56.600 abram and it seems like that we're just a society 0:26:56.640 --> 0:27:01.520 of warring tribes that you know, it's a zero sum game, 0:27:01.880 --> 0:27:05.920 and that someone else's move towards equality is going to 0:27:06.040 --> 0:27:10.160 hurt someone else. I'll never forget I worked at a 0:27:10.200 --> 0:27:14.520 network and the guy said to me, here, someone else's 0:27:14.640 --> 0:27:20.560 success diminishes you, someone else's failure elevates you. Well, you 0:27:20.600 --> 0:27:24.560 can imagine I wasn't very excited about working at this organization. 0:27:25.480 --> 0:27:29.080 And I feel like that you could almost apply that 0:27:29.480 --> 0:27:34.040 to society today. How do how do we get out 0:27:34.080 --> 0:27:38.800 of this trap of feeling that if someone else does well, 0:27:38.880 --> 0:27:42.400 we're not going to do well, and that there's something 0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:48.879 important and beautiful dare I say about leveling a playing field? 0:27:51.080 --> 0:27:55.200 So I actually, I actually think this is extremely important 0:27:55.280 --> 0:28:00.480 issue and and and it's certainly an issue that Heather 0:28:00.600 --> 0:28:03.479 McGee addresses in her new book called The Some of 0:28:03.600 --> 0:28:08.560 Us Um, in which she pushes back against this sort 0:28:08.600 --> 0:28:14.080 of zero sum myth of American society, and specifically the 0:28:14.119 --> 0:28:18.680 myth that many white Americans have um that as people 0:28:18.720 --> 0:28:22.879 of color gain, they lose in the greatest in the 0:28:22.720 --> 0:28:26.919 in the most general sense, what I would actually urge 0:28:27.160 --> 0:28:31.800 white Americans to think about it's to not compare their 0:28:31.920 --> 0:28:36.760 lot two people of color. I think white Americans should 0:28:36.800 --> 0:28:41.800 be comparing their lot to white Canadians, to white folks 0:28:41.840 --> 0:28:44.600 in Europe, and think about what do they have that 0:28:44.720 --> 0:28:48.240 you don't have, Whether it's universal health care, universit of 0:28:48.320 --> 0:28:53.480 child care, whether it's lower levels of income um and 0:28:53.600 --> 0:28:57.360 economic you know, inequality, whether it's lower levels of white 0:28:57.400 --> 0:29:01.040