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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Chelsea Handler. Welcome to Life Will Be the

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Speaker 1: Death of Me a production of I Heart Radio. Hi. There,

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Speaker 1: we're here today. It's Brandon Chelsea and my psychiatrist, Dan

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Speaker 1: Segel is here. He's going to break down the angiogram

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Speaker 1: for us, because that is a part of my book

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Speaker 1: where I explained that I am a number eight on

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Speaker 1: the angiogram chart, which is something I had never heard

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Speaker 1: of before I met Dan. And um, we're gonna go

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Speaker 1: through all the numbers of the Instagram because a lot

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Speaker 1: of people have been asking me questions about it and

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Speaker 1: how to take a test. There's a bunch of online

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Speaker 1: tests you can take, and there's a bunch of different variations. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so I want you to just take us through all

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Speaker 1: the numbers because, like a classic narcissist, I'm just familiar

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Speaker 1: with my own. Even though I know we decided I'm

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Speaker 1: not an artissist. It was a grand jury decision. By

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Speaker 1: the way, I would like to say, I'm unanimous. That's right,

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Speaker 1: totally unanimous, non narcissistic, that's right. So the thing that

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Speaker 1: first of all to say about the Instagram that's so

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Speaker 1: cool is that it's actually an inside job. Unlike other

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Speaker 1: systems of trying to classify personality. This one isn't so

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Speaker 1: much about what you would see someone doing in their behavior.

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Speaker 1: It's where their attention goes. And so that's an inner experience. Now,

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Speaker 1: so so watching another person, you wouldn't be able to

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Speaker 1: deduce what number there are no really, you could make

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Speaker 1: guesses and be right. You can make guesses and be wrong.

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Speaker 1: But it's an inside job. That's what I love about

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Speaker 1: it because it's really about where attention goes, which means

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Speaker 1: the inner systems of the brain, that's our view in

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Speaker 1: the group I'm working with are actually showing their proclivities,

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Speaker 1: their tendencies. So as we go through these nine, keep

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Speaker 1: in mind that the Instagram system is an observation of

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Speaker 1: where attention goes that has been really interesting and of

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Speaker 1: value to lots of people. And then with these scientists,

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Speaker 1: colleagues and I, we are really trying to say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's really interesting observational data. Now what's happening in the brain.

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Speaker 1: So as we go through this, I'll give you a

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Speaker 1: little bit of the antagram and a little bit of

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Speaker 1: our perspective, and they go together, I think, beautifully. But

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Speaker 1: all of them are about the inside job. Okay. So

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Speaker 1: the PDP model is your take on the angiogram. Correct,

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Speaker 1: So our PDP model looks at the brain number one

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Speaker 1: and then gives a developmental pathway and white people like that.

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Speaker 1: We're not getting into that here because it gets a

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Speaker 1: little So basically Danna saying he has a take on

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Speaker 1: the angiogram model, which is the PDPOT model, which is

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Speaker 1: patterns of developmental pathways pathways. So that's what that is, okay, right,

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Speaker 1: Meaning you have to decide or decipher where your attention

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Speaker 1: goes and what resonates with you when you read these

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Speaker 1: descriptions right exactly. So like one time I did this

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Speaker 1: from my whole family. We sat around in a family meeting.

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Speaker 1: We went around these nine like we're just about to do,

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Speaker 1: and then my father in law, of less his soul,

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Speaker 1: he came up with one number and all of his

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Speaker 1: kids and his wife said, that's not you, And it

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Speaker 1: really was him. He was being so open and honest

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Speaker 1: about where he was at on this these nine pipes.

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Speaker 1: He landed himself right in one and they said, that's

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Speaker 1: not you, but it was. He had shown an external

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Speaker 1: way of behaving just to get along with everybody. Um,

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Speaker 1: but his inside world was quite different. So this is

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Speaker 1: what I think so great about the Instagram. When we

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Speaker 1: say it's an inside job, it means you can look

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Speaker 1: up these descriptions and as we go around the nine

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Speaker 1: for everyone listening, you can say, what is really my tendency?

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Speaker 1: Not so much what I've learned to behave as to

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Speaker 1: get along with other people, but where do I tend

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Speaker 1: to go? You know? And that's why we're so excited

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Speaker 1: from a brain point of view to come up with

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Speaker 1: this model we call PDP. These patterns of developmental pathways

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Speaker 1: that likely start early in life with your temperament, are

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Speaker 1: shaped in part by your relationship experiences, for example with

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Speaker 1: your parents, and then combine temperament and attachment these relationship

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Speaker 1: experience to form personality. So that's our proposal that it's

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Speaker 1: a combination of experience and genetics basically that leads to

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Speaker 1: person reality. And it's an inside job because one of

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Speaker 1: the most important things the brain does is say to you, hey,

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Speaker 1: this is important, So I'm going to pay attention. And

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Speaker 1: what you pay attention to, Chelsea may be different what

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Speaker 1: I pay attention to, Brandon, what you pay attention to,

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Speaker 1: And that's because our brains are wired differently because of

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Speaker 1: genes and because of experience. Well, that's the question. Because

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Speaker 1: I'm an eight on the Instagram, I'm an eight, which

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Speaker 1: is like the fixer and you I asked you if

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Speaker 1: that had if that were was my personality type always,

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Speaker 1: or if that was triggered by my brother dying, and

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Speaker 1: then I became an eight, right, And that's exactly the

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Speaker 1: question to ask. And it's a combination. So that you

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Speaker 1: know another sibling, even if they were the same age

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Speaker 1: as you, and even with the same relationship with chet,

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Speaker 1: if they had a different temperament, they may have had

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Speaker 1: a different way of dealing with his his death. And you,

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Speaker 1: because of your temperament and your attachment experiences and deep, deep,

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Speaker 1: really beautiful relationship with Chad, his death meant something to

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Speaker 1: you that would have been different than to a sibling.

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Speaker 1: And so the way then we have the direct experience

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Speaker 1: his loss and then the adaptation to it that is

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Speaker 1: based on all these temperament issues, attachment issues, and and

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Speaker 1: then how we just try to survive. So that's why

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Speaker 1: we're all different from each other. Okay, Brandon, do you

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Speaker 1: know what number you are? I'm a number two, number two,

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Speaker 1: which is the helper. Well, there you go. Okay, that

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Speaker 1: was very helpful, Brandon, thank you. And as we get

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Speaker 1: into this, I just want to say, because people are

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Speaker 1: going to freak out when they find themselves, is that

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Speaker 1: there isn't a good type and there isn't a bad type.

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Speaker 1: So you say, so I say, yes, so I say.

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Speaker 1: And when I asked you what the bad things are

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Speaker 1: about the eight, you told me that there are no

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Speaker 1: bad things about any of the numbers. And I had

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Speaker 1: to remind you that I needed to hear something like

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Speaker 1: you know what my weakness was, and what it was

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Speaker 1: was silacked empathy. That's right. So there are weaknesses or

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Speaker 1: or shortcomings or growth edges, we could call them, beautifully said,

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Speaker 1: So it isn't that there aren't, you know, weak sides

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Speaker 1: to each of these. Yes, there are challenging sides to

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Speaker 1: every one of the nine we're about to go through.

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Speaker 1: And so what you want to do is say where

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Speaker 1: am I generally anchoring myself? And then what's my growth edge?

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Speaker 1: As you point out? And if there are let's say

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Speaker 1: an eight or we're gonna do one. Now, let's say

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Speaker 1: there's a one who's not aware of their oneness, right,

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Speaker 1: they're not aware where their temperament has brought them, where

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Speaker 1: their personality now is structuring how they live. So then

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Speaker 1: if you're not unaware any of the numbers, life is

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Speaker 1: going to be tough for very painful reasons that we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about. So each one of them has challenging,

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Speaker 1: painful sides to it that if you don't become aware

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Speaker 1: of it, it will imprison you. And what you want

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Speaker 1: to do is move as we go through each of

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Speaker 1: these nine from imprisonment by your type actually being amused

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Speaker 1: by your type. You may never get rid of your type.

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Speaker 1: There's no reason to get rid of it. It's just

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Speaker 1: kind of a home base. But it's just amusing. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's right. I'm an eight, So I did that. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Now my growth edges becoming more empathic for you, and

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Speaker 1: now I'm more we call the actualized or more aware. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the empathy. By the way, it's a huge pain in

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Speaker 1: my ass. I want to let you know because now

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Speaker 1: I'm in empathy and full gear, full swing. So anytime

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Speaker 1: I meet anyone who annoys me, I have to constantly think.

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Speaker 1: Think about their house, think about what their life might

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Speaker 1: be like, think about their spouse, they might hate their spouse.

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Speaker 1: Just think that their life might not be as as

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Speaker 1: as nice as yours or not even that, just think

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Speaker 1: that that person might be going through something and it's exhausting. Dan, Yes,

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Speaker 1: I know what kind of have to think about people's

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Speaker 1: shoes and their homes and their cars and getting there

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Speaker 1: shoes for you aren't thinking you Well, no comment from you,

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Speaker 1: but anyway, Yes, So here's what I want to give

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Speaker 1: you some feedback on. First of all, I went to

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Speaker 1: your amazing show last week in l a thank you,

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Speaker 1: and I brought my family and they were laughing so hard.

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Speaker 1: One of them said, I haven't left so hard in years.

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Speaker 1: It was so therapeutic. Oh that's nice, everybody. You can

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Speaker 1: we added more cities. You can buy your tickets at

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Speaker 1: live nation dot com for the Life Will Be The

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Speaker 1: Death of Me too, so so great. And my son

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Speaker 1: was there, and you know, he's a musician, so he's

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Speaker 1: in a totally different field. But he heard what you

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Speaker 1: said about the experience of therapy, so he said, I

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Speaker 1: never really knew what my dad did. Chelsea. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much. Now I've heard because he's never heard a

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Speaker 1: patient say this is what happened. So thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for that. And what I want to say to

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Speaker 1: you is in the green room afterwards, your friends came

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Speaker 1: up to me and there one by one saying thank you,

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Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. You don't know how different Chelsea is.

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Speaker 1: She's so empathic, she's so patient, she listens. It's amazing

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Speaker 1: what happened, you know. And I said, well, you read

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Speaker 1: the book, you know, so she said. They were saying,

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Speaker 1: she's now saying things that she didn't say before. She's

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Speaker 1: being in a way that and it was so beautiful.

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Speaker 1: First of all, they were so loving you for the

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Speaker 1: courage you've had to do these changes. So I know

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Speaker 1: you're making a focus on empathy, but there's lots of

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Speaker 1: ways where you have this spaciousness and they feel really

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Speaker 1: hurt by you in a beautiful way. And it's really

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Speaker 1: it was a lot of them were in tears just

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Speaker 1: talking about how great it is to have this deep

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Speaker 1: connection with you. Now, that's nice, thank you, You're welcome.

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Speaker 1: So so let's go through the numbers. Um So in

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Speaker 1: the system, the one the reform of the perfectionists, the

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Speaker 1: way to think about it. In the instagrams, as they say,

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Speaker 1: it's the head type. This means there's a lot of thoughts.

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Speaker 1: That's what the head type kind of means, lots lots

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Speaker 1: of thinking. Um. And the way to think about the

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Speaker 1: one is basically for me to get along in the world,

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Speaker 1: I need to have an internal sense of how things

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Speaker 1: should be. So I have like a laundry list of

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Speaker 1: the shoods in life of how things ought to be.

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Speaker 1: That structures the way I go around in the world,

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Speaker 1: so that you know, if I'm going to a party,

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Speaker 1: for example, I would know that you're supposed to have

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Speaker 1: certain drinks out, you're supposed to have certain snacks out,

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Speaker 1: that the the pictures on the wall are supposed to

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Speaker 1: be ordered in a certain way, and not leaning a

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Speaker 1: little bit kind of it has a drive Type A

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Speaker 1: for sure. And this is the idea that you know

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Speaker 1: here what says the rational idealistic type principal, purposeful, self controlled,

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Speaker 1: and perfectionistic. When this is an actualized person, it's a

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Speaker 1: person who's just super organized, and you might call them

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Speaker 1: type A just in the sense that they're motivated, but

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Speaker 1: they come to life really self possessed. When they're actualized,

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Speaker 1: and I know kind of sentive ideals on how things

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Speaker 1: should be, so that's beautiful, it's great. And if you're

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Speaker 1: starting a company, you want an actualized one there with you,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, in your life and certainly for

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Speaker 1: romantic partners, you want an actualized one. Now watch what

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Speaker 1: happens if you don't have an actualized one then, and

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Speaker 1: here's what the anger part for us in the PDP

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Speaker 1: models so helpful. You get really angry if the world

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Speaker 1: isn't matching your internal expectation. And the first person you

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Speaker 1: get really angry at is yourself, and they beat up

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Speaker 1: on themselves. And you know, if I'm going to do

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Speaker 1: if I'm a one that's not actualized and I'm doing

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Speaker 1: let's say a project at work and it doesn't come

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Speaker 1: out the way I want, I'm going to work at

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Speaker 1: it and work at it and work at it every

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Speaker 1: time it's not the way I want, I'm just going

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Speaker 1: to beat up on myself. And the world around you

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Speaker 1: gets about one per cent of the fury you have

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Speaker 1: towards yourself. So an unactualized, unaware what do you mean,

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Speaker 1: the world around you get one percent of the fury

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Speaker 1: you have. You know, let's say let's say the person

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Speaker 1: is in a business and there's their employee who didn't

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Speaker 1: do it the way the one who's the the employer

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Speaker 1: thought it should be. They may said that wasn't right.

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Speaker 1: You shouldn't do it like that. Do it the way

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Speaker 1: I told you too. Well, the way that yelling is

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Speaker 1: it's a hundred times stronger when they themselves haven't met

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Speaker 1: their own expectations, right, So they're projecting. They're projecting their anger,

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Speaker 1: but I just small percentage of it. And that's helpful

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Speaker 1: if you know a one, because you realize as as

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Speaker 1: hard as they are on the people around them, because

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Speaker 1: you don't know what their laundry list was, and they

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Speaker 1: get mad at you, they're getting much angrier towards themselves.

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Speaker 1: So this is where you can see an actualized one

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Speaker 1: is really very effective in the world and someone that's

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Speaker 1: wonderful to be around, because now they're saying, I have

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Speaker 1: a sense of what's going to get things done, and

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Speaker 1: I get them done. And that's an actualized one, and

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Speaker 1: they don't get mad at them they said they say, say, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: I didn't do it the way it should be done.

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Speaker 1: That's okay. I know where I'm headed towards, but it

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Speaker 1: didn't get exactly there. I can be kind to myself right,

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Speaker 1: So you can see where even with the same characteristics

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Speaker 1: of a one, if you're actualized, it's one way of living.

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Speaker 1: If you're not, you're in a prison of this huge

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Speaker 1: amount of anger, lots of thinking, and you feel like

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Speaker 1: just fretting that things aren't gonna be the right way.

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Speaker 1: You see, that would work. Okay, So they're rational, they're idealistic, principal, purposeful,

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Speaker 1: self controlled. So they're not drug addicts. Well, anyone can

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Speaker 1: become a drug addict. But yes, exactly right and perfectionistic. Right,

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Speaker 1: and this is the other name that's given it to it, right, perfectionists.

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Speaker 1: I knew I wasn't a reformer because I'm not a perfectionist. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and neither of mine. You know, like when I write

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Speaker 1: books or whatever, like I'll do my best, I'll put

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Speaker 1: my heart into it. And then I turned it in

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Speaker 1: and I said, okay, next book. You know, where's a

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Speaker 1: one who wouldn't be like that, would be like this

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Speaker 1: has to be just right. And I really respect that,

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Speaker 1: but it can drive you mad. But there are degrees

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Speaker 1: of being just right without being a perfectionist. I think

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Speaker 1: that's right. That's that's such a good point because every

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Speaker 1: single one of us have each of the nine characteristics.

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Speaker 1: It's really more what's your propensity, what's your tendency? Where

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Speaker 1: do you kind of land? So yeah, hopefully we all

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Speaker 1: have a little bit of this, like I have an

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Speaker 1: idea how it should be, but we're not imprisoned by it,

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Speaker 1: right because there's always something you have very close attachments to.

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Speaker 1: Like me writing this book, I would rewrite, rewrite chapters,

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Speaker 1: and my friends Sophy would be like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: how many times can you rewrite one chapter? I'm like twenty.

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Speaker 1: Like I can redo to a chapter several times because

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Speaker 1: it's so personal it has to be. But I'm still

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Speaker 1: not a perfectionist. I still kind of half asked other things. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And there's an interesting comparison of the one and the

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Speaker 1: three you'll see in a moment that helps you clarify that. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so that's the one. Okay, so let's go to two.

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Speaker 1: So the two. Now we move to a different zone,

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Speaker 1: Brandon and the helper. The angiogram the two is a

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Speaker 1: part of what's called the heart center um and in

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Speaker 1: our PDP model, you know, this would be where it's

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Speaker 1: sadness or separation distress. So the heart, literally in our bodies,

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Speaker 1: is actually an organ that has a set of neurons

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Speaker 1: around it that's kind of like a brain. And amazingly,

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Speaker 1: your sense of relationship with others is processed by this

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Speaker 1: network around your heart. You also have a brain factor

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Speaker 1: around your gut, so you have three brains. What do

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Speaker 1: those brains look like, Dan, they're literally what's called the

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Speaker 1: intrinsic nervous system of the heart. So if you can

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Speaker 1: imagine a spider web like kind of mesh that's all

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Speaker 1: around the heart, that's what it is, and that connects

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Speaker 1: to your brain or connects to your brain in your

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Speaker 1: head to send signals to your brain from your heart.

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Speaker 1: Both directions you have sent from the heart to the

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Speaker 1: brain and from the brain to the heart. Did you

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Speaker 1: know that I didn't. The more you know, there you go,

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Speaker 1: the more you grow. Exactly, the more you know, the

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Speaker 1: more you grow and branded for you if you're saying

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Speaker 1: you kind of found yourself in a two zone, you know,

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Speaker 1: we now go to the heart center. So unlike the

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Speaker 1: head center with lots of thinking, thinking thinking, now it's

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Speaker 1: the heart center and it's for us. It's about this relationality.

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Speaker 1: That's what the heart is really about our relationships with

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Speaker 1: other people, our relationship to the larger world. And you know,

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Speaker 1: poets have known this a long time. And here the two,

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Speaker 1: unlike the one who's kind of focused inwardly, what's my

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Speaker 1: internal list of how things should be? The two now

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Speaker 1: moves not only to the heart center, but it moves

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Speaker 1: to an external focus, which goes like this, how can

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Speaker 1: I work on my relationships with other people and in

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Speaker 1: the different settings I've been in and be able to

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Speaker 1: study a bunch of ones, a bunch of twos, etcetera,

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Speaker 1: each of these in pure form and hang out with them.

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Speaker 1: The twos, I think, have a lot of what are

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Speaker 1: called mirror neurons, meaning they're really sensitive to the internal

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Speaker 1: state of other people. Brandon does that, Okay, Now other

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Speaker 1: people don't have that, So just as a two, you

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Speaker 1: may not realize everyone's not like that. So when I

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Speaker 1: had all these two's up on a stage and they

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Speaker 1: were like being interviewed, when one of the people would

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Speaker 1: cross their legs and fold their arms, every one on

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Speaker 1: the stage did the exact same thing. And the mirror

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Speaker 1: neurons system that we have basically allows you to do

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Speaker 1: two things. That allows you to observe another person to

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Speaker 1: imitate their behavior automatically, but also to feel their feelings.

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Speaker 1: So it's like sponge neurons, and I think the twos

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Speaker 1: just are born with a lot of them, which means

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Speaker 1: you're very tuned into the internal needs of another person.

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Speaker 1: And so with that external focus, I'm focusing on other needs.

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Speaker 1: You know, here it's called the helper, which is the

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Speaker 1: common term port the caring interpersonal type. You know, demonstrative,

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Speaker 1: generous people, pleasing and possessive, you know, an actualized too.

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Speaker 1: It's just a person who's really kind, giving, but knows

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Speaker 1: enough about their own tendencies that they don't give up

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Speaker 1: their own needs because they're aware. Wow, I just have

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Speaker 1: a tendency to take care of everybody, but I got

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Speaker 1: to remember to take care of me, this internal person,

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Speaker 1: whereas an unactualized two would get lost in other people's needs,

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Speaker 1: constantly be trying to help them, get associated with people

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Speaker 1: who maybe have big problems, so I can be really

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Speaker 1: of help. Then really needs to be needed, and then

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Speaker 1: if they're not needed or or there's an acknowledgement that

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Speaker 1: they're being needed, they get really irritated. Yes, Brandon, that's you.

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Speaker 1: He's possessive over me. He wants to get everybody else

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Speaker 1: out of my life so he can shift his thoughts

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Speaker 1: into my brain and take over. He likes to use

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Speaker 1: the word controlling. Yes, he's Yeah, Like last night he

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Speaker 1: disabled everything in my room so that I would have

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Speaker 1: to call him to turn the television onto my room.

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Speaker 1: Can you believe it, Dan, if you did it remotely

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Speaker 1: for me because he's disabled my iPad, my remote control.

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Speaker 1: He wants me to rely on him for everything. He's

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Speaker 1: become too self sufficient. Get over it back a little bit.

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Speaker 1: It's job security, Dan. Okay, this is exactly too behavior

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Speaker 1: right beautiful, So now you can understand, But now how

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Speaker 1: does it help you or change you or affect you

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Speaker 1: to know? There's this thing called it too that you

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Speaker 1: may be brandon. I think anytime you have a reference

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Speaker 1: point to certain characteristics or attributes, you can make sense

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Speaker 1: of them a little bit. And so knowing that there

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Speaker 1: is like you say, the growth edge, or there are

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Speaker 1: things that any of these numbers can work on, you

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Speaker 1: have kind of a touch point to go back to, like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: well I've spent a lot of time working on someone else.

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Speaker 1: Like it's a reminder, these are the things I need

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Speaker 1: to work on for myself. Beautiful. Yeah, and that's great,

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Speaker 1: and that's so well said, because this is the point

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Speaker 1: of doing all this is not to just shove people

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Speaker 1: in a category and say, oh my god, I'm a too,

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Speaker 1: there's nothing I can do. It's quite the opposite. You say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: now I understand this tendency. You know, whether you get

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Speaker 1: the brain stuff with our PDP thing or not, it's

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Speaker 1: just she said, Okay, that's my tendency. So my growth edge.

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Speaker 1: And that's a beautiful um term that David Daniels loved

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Speaker 1: to use. It was a big any grand person who

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Speaker 1: passed recently. Um it says as a two, my main

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Speaker 1: growth edge is don't lose my own needs. I should

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Speaker 1: go to the gym, I should do this, I should

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Speaker 1: do that. And also if Chelsea's trying to be a

383
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Speaker 1: little more independent, then you start getting irritated with that

384
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Speaker 1: and feel like she's she's pulling away from you, and

385
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Speaker 1: and well he is probably subconscious or the record, I am.

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Speaker 1: I am supportive for self sufficiency. I have enabled that

387
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Speaker 1: I would like. So it seems, well, we don't really

388
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Speaker 1: know what's going on behind the scenes, but I don't know.

389
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Speaker 1: I only know. And apparently our houseman Willie is onto

390
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Speaker 1: something too, because he came up this morning as sod

391
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Speaker 1: if you can make me a coffee, which was very weird,

392
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Speaker 1: but I appreciated it. But I mean, I'm trying to

393
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Speaker 1: become less infantilized, not more. Yeah, and this is what

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Speaker 1: this is the thing about it. You know, when we

395
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Speaker 1: match with people in relationships, like you know, you and

396
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 1: Brandon have a certain thing going, so you know you

397
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Speaker 1: actually may want to help Brandon by letting him be needed.

398
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Speaker 1: I mean, this is complicated, right, Okay, Brandon, you know

399
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Speaker 1: who's controlling who exactly? It's very at this point, it's

400
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,840
Speaker 1: very whom's whom is controlling whom? Yes, yes, yes, zoom.

401
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,960
Speaker 1: It's so confusing. Okay. So that's the helper, okay, and

402
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 1: the helper needs to work on what on self care?

403
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,400
Speaker 1: So all of these numbers that we're going to go through,

404
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Speaker 1: you can be somebody who's unaware, or you can be

405
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 1: a self actualized number, which means you're aware of your shortcomings,

406
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Speaker 1: your growth edge and areas of improvement exactly. That's exactly right.

407
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 1: And then to not only think of shortcomings, think of

408
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Speaker 1: them as tendencies, so that you say, Okay, my tendencies

409
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Speaker 1: do not have empathy. Fine, so my growth edges build empathy. Fine,

410
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Speaker 1: and now that's going to be actually a strong suit

411
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Speaker 1: of mine. That's gonna be actually a real great characteristic.

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Speaker 1: So each of them when you work, when you become actualized,

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Speaker 1: it's awesome, right, yes, okay. So three is the achiever

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Speaker 1: or what sometimes called the performer performer Okay, yeah, because

415
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Speaker 1: I would have thought I was that one, right, So

416
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Speaker 1: this one, you know, here it says the success oriented,

417
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Speaker 1: pragmatic type, adaptive, excelling driven an image conscious. So I'll

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Speaker 1: give you just an example. You know, I was trained

419
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Speaker 1: in something called antiagram in the narrative tradition. Helen Palmer

420
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Speaker 1: and David Daniels started this thing. It's a beautiful way

421
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Speaker 1: of basically, um, you get together for you know, a

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Speaker 1: few days or a workshop or a week or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and all of let's say, in this case, the threes,

424
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,120
Speaker 1: but you're doing for every time get up on a stage,

425
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,639
Speaker 1: and then there's an interviewer who's training to be a

426
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,840
Speaker 1: professionalist field who interviews let's say the threes. So in

427
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,239
Speaker 1: this case, you know, it was now time for the

428
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 1: threes to get up right, the clock said two o'clock,

429
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 1: it was time for the threes to get up there.

430
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:23,679
Speaker 1: None of them were up there, so the rest of us,

431
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 1: all the other numbers were sitting in the audience. There

432
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,879
Speaker 1: was no one on the stage. This had never happened before.

433
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: Everyone is always punctual, especially the ones. And then we left.

434
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,920
Speaker 1: We said, we bet they're all in the bathroom combing

435
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 1: their hair. So someone said, probably a seven, said let

436
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 1: me go check, and they ran to the bathroom and

437
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 1: sure enough, all the threes were in there making sure

438
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 1: their hair was just right. So that sounds like a perfectionist. Now, well,

439
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:57,360
Speaker 1: it's a person who really cares. And this is where

440
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 1: it's still in the heart zone, right, So it's about relationships.

441
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 1: Someone who really cares how other people are going to

442
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: think of them, right, So like you would never see

443
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 1: me doing it, Like my daughter had to say to me, Dad,

444
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: you know you probably think it's selfless not to be

445
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: combing your hair. And I go, what do you mean?

446
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 1: She goes, do you never comb your hair? Do you?

447
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:20,640
Speaker 1: I go no, not really? She goes, do you ever

448
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 1: look in the mirror? I go, well, actually not? She

449
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 1: probably she says, do you realize how selfish that is?

450
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,120
Speaker 1: I said, what do you mean? She's a teenager then,

451
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 1: and she goes, it's selfish because go look in the

452
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: mirror and you'll see what I mean. You look like

453
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 1: you put your fingers in an electric socket. And you

454
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:37,640
Speaker 1: may not have to look at yourself, but the rest

455
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,919
Speaker 1: of us do. So go look in the mirror and

456
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 1: comb your hair. Right now, A three would never be

457
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 1: like that, three would have a comb. I never do.

458
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 1: I'm just not a three, right, so I don't. And

459
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: this is where she says selfish. I don't really care

460
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: what other people think about my appearance, as you probably

461
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: know because comments about my shoes. I try to match

462
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: my clothes as best I can, but I have color challenge.

463
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: So in any of it, the issue is the threes.

464
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: That's a different thing. There go to place. This is

465
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 1: the tendency, right is to say, are other people going

466
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 1: to accept me? And what are the ways they're gonna

467
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 1: accept you. They're gonna accept me by my appearance because

468
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: I'll be good looking. They'll accept me because if I

469
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: perform well, they'll say, wow, dan Is has done that

470
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: song really beautifully, or he's really great. So the difference

471
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 1: between the one that your point, I would care about

472
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 1: outcome and a three. And this is part of the

473
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: questionnaire we have in this book I wrote called the

474
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 1: Mindful Therapist. You can see in the chapter on traits

475
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: this whole thing outline with an interview you can do

476
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 1: with the questions from a PDP point of view. You know,

477
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 1: basically a one you say, if you're doing a project,

478
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: are you more concerned about the essence of the project

479
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: or how the project appears? And one says the essence

480
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 1: of it? I want everything to be exactly right, and

481
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: the three says, of course, I care about how to years.

482
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 1: So that's the difference. It's I want to impress others.

483
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: So the main thing is not how complete and comprehensive

484
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 1: the project is. Is It's not that that's a one

485
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: here for three, it's did you like me? They want

486
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 1: to be accepted accepted, that's the main It's a relational thing.

487
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 1: The three is not about relationships. It's about the thing itself.

488
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: So you know, you want to have like if you're

489
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 1: starting a company or whatever, you want to know who's

490
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,120
Speaker 1: going to be a one doing the work that get

491
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: the projects just right. But then in you know, the

492
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 1: front officer who's designing your your space. You want a

493
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,959
Speaker 1: three who says I like things to appear really nicely

494
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 1: comb your area. Right. So yeah, so that's the three.

495
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 1: And so the downside of three is if people don't

496
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 1: approve of me, I feel terrible. I feel really really bad.

497
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 1: And the classic question we asked for all these, if

498
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: you're going through this, is to say, when you were

499
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: in a lay adolescent or in your early adulthood, before

500
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: you had maybe any therapy or reading any aniogram books

501
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: or anything like that, what would you do when you're

502
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: in a most people which is I mean not people

503
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 1: who are listening to this. People are listening to this

504
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: probably read my book and are listening to well they

505
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: know a little bit about it. But I mean you

506
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: just say, before you really study this or had therapy

507
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: to change, when you were just yourself without much effort

508
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 1: to change when you're in a stressful situation. The classic

509
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 1: one I'd like to use is you go to a

510
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: gathering of people like a party, and you don't know anyone.

511
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: Where does your attention go? The one goes to are

512
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: things the way they should be? The two goes to

513
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: who's in need? That I can be helping. The three

514
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: goes to, are people going to be impressed by me?

515
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: So I need to say things a certain way so

516
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: people say, wow, that person is really whatever, smart, funny, um,

517
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: you know, whatever it is. I've impressed them as a

518
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,199
Speaker 1: three in the party, right, So an unactualized three as

519
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: a prisoner to that. So I'm constantly trying to impress people,

520
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: whereas you know, an actualized three would say, yeah, it's

521
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: my tendency to go in a group situation and want

522
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: to be doing something that makes people happy. But I

523
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: want to do something that really actually also makes them

524
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,360
Speaker 1: do well. So I could become an actor or a comedian,

525
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: or a musician or a you know, a politician, but

526
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: I'm trying to actually make the government policies better. But

527
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: I like being on stage because I like the applause

528
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: and that's okay, there's nothing wrong with that, and in fact,

529
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: all of us have a bit of that. Yeah, I mean,

530
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 1: nobody hates applause for themselves. Well, some people get embarrassed exactly,

531
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 1: but for the most part. You know, as as an adult,

532
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: you you know you can you can appreciate that if

533
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 1: people are cheering for you, it's usually a good thing.

534
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: I know some people loathe attention, but but think about

535
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: the difference. Let's say, and someone who says, I want

536
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 1: to do something where people applaud because they really learned

537
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: something and their lives are going to be better, and

538
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: I really am grateful that the interaction we just had

539
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: improved their lives versus I got up on stage and

540
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: I showed him how smart I am. I showed him

541
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: what a great dancer I am. You know, what a

542
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: great you know? And and that's the unactualized three. So anyway,

543
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 1: so there's a reason everyone is the way they are,

544
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 1: which when you feel that about people go, oh, I

545
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 1: get it. So I mean, this is what this has

546
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 1: helped me so much understand other people too, which is

547
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 1: what you told me initially. That understanding that you know

548
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: everybody's coming from a different spot. It's helpful information. Yeah, exactly.

549
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: So for the three, the feeling is I just want

550
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: to be at one with the Uterus. That's our view,

551
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: and the Uterus I thought it was the universe. I

552
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: know that's the joke. But the ideas you start in

553
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: the womb and you're at one with things, every one

554
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: of us come out and depending on your tendencies. You

555
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: come at different ways. That's it in a nutshell. But

556
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: the bottom line is for a three, I just want

557
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: to be loved. That's it so simple. And the way

558
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to be loved is to impress you. And

559
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: if I'm not actualized, then I'm a prisoner to that.

560
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: If I'm actualized, I'm going to turn into my impressing

561
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: you is actually helping you, and I'm going to educate

562
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: you or make you deeply laugh about something that helps

563
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: you learn something about yourself, or you're gonna start helping others. Right,

564
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: so we can turn any of these tendencies into a

565
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: really great contribution to the world. Yeah, Randan, that's a reminder.

566
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: Would you um write down that I'd like to get

567
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: my uterus removed? Okay, we're gonna take a quick break

568
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: and we'll be right back. Okay number four. Is that

569
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: we're on number four? Yeah, the individualist or you know

570
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: some the words that are used the other words are

571
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: sometimes insulting. So I think I've intentionally forgotten this one.

572
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: I think this one is called romantic romantic. I know

573
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: force a couple of my close friends are for really okay,

574
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: and what do they say that their horror. They're very opinionated,

575
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 1: they're very um romantic, they're very sensitive, but they hold

576
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: on to this notion of romance in a way that

577
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: I can definitely see them separating themselves from others, like

578
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: way more than other people do. They're very romantic about

579
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: the notion of it all exactly exactly. So that's where

580
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: the room and they hold onto the past a lot.

581
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: That's my my perception of before. Yeah, so so there's

582
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: you know, it says the sensitive withdrawing type express of dramatic,

583
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: self absorbed, and temperamental. So you know, I was given

584
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: the the beautiful opportunity by David Daniels and Helen Palmer

585
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: to be a scientist at this meeting with fifty people

586
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 1: studying the instagram. So you know, it turned out that

587
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:42,959
Speaker 1: we did an interview that let me do this research

588
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: interview that I'm trained to do. Um And then I said, okay,

589
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: everyone's gonna do the interview. Find they did it. I

590
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: got the results that was beautiful, really interesting. But then

591
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: I said, just to make this a public educational experience,

592
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: let's just pick one person randomly to talk about it.

593
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: So randomly, I just everyone a bunch of people raised

594
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: your hand and I just picked someone I didn't know

595
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: what her type was, and she was a four. So

596
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: then everyone goes, oh no, And I said, what, I

597
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: didn't know what the integram thinking when this is going

598
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: to go on for five or six hours. And the

599
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: idea is for this for sure, equations right, exact poets

600
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: and all sorts of beautiful, beautiful things. Now here's the

601
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: thing about this for they here it's called the individualist

602
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: or the romantic um. The idea that that's really helpful

603
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: for me to anchor this one and this this makes

604
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: it really see why it's hard. It's we're still in

605
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: the heart zone. Okay. So the two was the heart

606
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: zone for us it's sadness, you know, But in the

607
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: antigram system it's the heart zone and it's about external focus.

608
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: The three is kind of both inward and outward focus.

609
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: Now we're going to an inward focus of the heart. Okay,

610
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: So two, three, and four a heart. They're all heart

611
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: rights and sadness would be our view. So so in

612
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: separation distress. And here's the statement I once learned from

613
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: David Daniels that was so helpful. It's that there's a

614
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: feeling inside that other people are not like me. I'm unique,

615
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: not like I'm bragging about that, but just I actually

616
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: feel kind of lonely. There's actually no one like me.

617
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: I'm kind of alone. That's number one. Number two, that

618
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: other people have better than me. You know this statement,

619
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: the grass is always greener. On the other side, there's

620
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: always a feeling of something missing. Now our view is that, yeah,

621
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: you used to be in the womb, and now you're

622
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: out of the womb, something is missing. Before you didn't

623
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: have to breathe, you didn't have to eat, you don't

624
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: have to call out for anything. You were just at

625
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: one with the Uterus, know this oneness of being, and

626
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: now you've got to do all this stuff. So there

627
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: is something missing. That's our viue. But for A four,

628
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: it's like, oh my god, there's something missing. I have

629
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: this longing that will never be quenched. Ah, and you

630
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: great poetry about to do songs, do paintings, journal writing,

631
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: all this stuff, and when they're not actualized, they just

632
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: have this quality of self absorbed because there's something so

633
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: feel so wrong. So in therapy, if you're if you're

634
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: working with A four, what's so helpful about this system?

635
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: As you say that feeling you have that there's something

636
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: missing and something will always be missing, will likely always

637
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: be with you, and don't take it so seriously because

638
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: it isn't that there's something missing, it's just that your type.

639
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: And that is so helpful because people are always looking

640
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: for what's the thing missing, and in our system we

641
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: just say what's missing is you're not in your mother's womb,

642
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: you know, and they go, oh, I got it. I'm

643
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: longing for oneness. That is actually what I did have

644
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: when I was in the womb. See, this is why

645
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: our system we find so helpful, because you say, that's

646
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: what it's there for. Now, what is an unactualized for doing?

647
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: Then they're pining. They can be tendency to be depressed,

648
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: you know, be by themselves, and a lot of people

649
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: do talk about how they can be prone to alcoholism

650
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: and you know, really just want to drink their way

651
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: away from this unbelievable pain they can feel if they're

652
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: eyes so at it, you know. And in contrast and

653
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: actualized for could just be this exquisite romantic view of

654
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,399
Speaker 1: life where you say, okay, yeah, I am a four

655
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: So I realized there's always gonna be this longing. But

656
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 1: I can turn that energy of longing into actually creating

657
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: art in the world beauty. I can write songs. I

658
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: can do you know, these incredible poems, and I can

659
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: express what is a common human journey, which is, you know,

660
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 1: we're all looking for something, and I don't have to

661
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 1: take my longing. And this emptiness that I feel as

662
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 1: absolute truth is just a feeling I have. And this

663
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: is why again, the Instagram is so cool because it's

664
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: an inside job. You might not know that that's what

665
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: this person is. So a lot of fours it's hard

666
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: to from the outside to figure it out because they're

667
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 1: having this internal experience. See. But I would think that

668
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: the most qualities that you're describing are easy to sense

669
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 1: in somebody else, especially number four. Somebody who self absorbed,

670
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 1: somebody who's dramatic, very temperamental, may be depressed, you know,

671
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: always not ever in a state of bliss. Well that's

672
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: probably because you're a lot more empathic than I am. Okay,

673
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,720
Speaker 1: thank you, I was hoping you would say that today. Okay,

674
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:18,320
Speaker 1: let's move on to number five. The investigator or the investigator, um,

675
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: the other word for it is the it's like the

676
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 1: expert but there's another way of saying expert. It's like

677
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: the I don't want to say dilettante because that's so insulting,

678
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: but I think some people use that term, but it's

679
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 1: the expert. Now, this one's really really interesting. So now

680
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: we've gone I shouldn't say that because that shows my bias.

681
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: They're all interesting. Are you a five? Dan? No? Well

682
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 1: not really? What number do you want to tell us?

683
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: What number? When we get to it, you'll you'll see

684
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: if you're gonna you know me pretty well. Right, So

685
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,359
Speaker 1: so this is um, we're now moving from the heart

686
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: zone into the the the head zone. Actually, yeah, because

687
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: I said before that was the head. I was wrong.

688
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: It was the gut. It was anger and the gut.

689
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 1: See that's how I don't find this gut heart stuff

690
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: so helpful. But anyway, we're now going to the head.

691
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: So let me correct myself from before. The one is

692
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: actually the gut zone. But anger yet, right, you feel

693
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 1: that way, which actually that's why we don't use those

694
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 1: in our view. But anyway, so now you're moving to

695
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 1: the five, which is the head, and here it's actually

696
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: fear or anticipatory anxiety. So the five here it says

697
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: the investigator. The intense cerebral types. There's the head business, perceptive, innovative, secretive,

698
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 1: and isolated. You know, I don't think it has to

699
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: be like that, but that's what these descriptions can say.

700
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: So here's the idea of a five. Three things are

701
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 1: really important for what directs attention. This is what it's

702
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 1: all about. Where does your attention go when you go

703
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 1: to that party? So A five, The big three things

704
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: are I really care if I'm a five, I really

705
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 1: care about my time, my space, that's my space, my

706
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: personal space. And I really care about my knowledge. In

707
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: any way I can work these three things out. Two

708
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: really keep myself basically feeling like life is going to

709
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 1: be okay. I'm not on the woman anymore. I'm out

710
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: what do I do? So I'm going to be focused

711
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: very much on the inside world, like what's my knowledge?

712
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: So what I do is I learned everything about you know,

713
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 1: how to play volleyball, and I study it, and I

714
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: studied the game, and now I'm going to go take

715
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,959
Speaker 1: every lesson I can. I'm playing volleyball, or I learned

716
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 1: how to, you know, do golf that way, or how

717
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: to sail that way or you know, so I dive

718
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: really really really deeply into becoming an expert. But then

719
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: after I do that, I said, well I got that.

720
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: Let me go into the next sport. Let me go

721
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: into the next sport, let me go to the next thing.

722
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 1: And I gather people around me who are experts. Right,

723
00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:59,959
Speaker 1: So if I were a journalist, I would be someone

724
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 1: is interviewing experts in something, right, and so now I

725
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 1: get my expertise, that's my knowledge. When I go to

726
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:13,720
Speaker 1: that party, I actually feel very drained when I'm around

727
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,879
Speaker 1: a lot of people. Right. So at this research opportunity,

728
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: I had interviewing all the five's. Amazingly, a lot of them,

729
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 1: um were experts in what they did. They had been

730
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: promoted to actually heads of companies. This was in Silicon Valley,

731
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: and they knew everything about their particular in this case,

732
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: they were tech companies that tech industry, and they had

733
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: people around them who were experts, so the company could

734
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: become like, you know, the established thing that we now

735
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: know in these big companies. You know, So these were

736
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: fives and you know, so their knowledge was protected. They

737
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,879
Speaker 1: would have their office, so their space was protected. They

738
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 1: came in and out of that, you know, session. In fact,

739
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:57,399
Speaker 1: none of them were at the retreat. They just came

740
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 1: to do a favor to David Daniels, you know, and

741
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 1: they came in UM. And what was so fascinating about

742
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: it was they role played what it's like to be

743
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: a five and to have human beings intrude on your

744
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: space and they just go get away, get a great again,

745
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: and they really needed downtime. So that social interaction can

746
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: sometimes be very draining. So the party analogy, you know,

747
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: what happens in you're at the party is they don't

748
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: stay very long at the party, or they just stay

749
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: in the corner of the party, or they find a

750
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: really smart expert in something at the party. So that's

751
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 1: the downside is you know, is that you can be

752
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: very isolated. UM. But in the the upside is when

753
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: they become actualized, they realize, wow, I can use my

754
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: focus in detail to develop an expertise in some area.

755
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: So I know everything about this area of history or

756
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: this sport or this, this that or you know, and

757
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: I use that in a very positive way. Right. So

758
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: that's the the upside of a five. And you know,

759
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: you can have people have tendencies for the five or

760
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: full on fives and just to be realized, I think

761
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: that's where you are can drive you in a beautiful way.

762
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: You can get a lot of knowledge. You can be

763
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: the person in a company that when you say, we

764
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: need to know about the future of this area of

765
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 1: our company's work, and a five will go, no problem,

766
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 1: and they dive in and they learn everything on the

767
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 1: planet known about that. And that's how you want on

768
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: your team, you don't. You want a little bit of everybody,

769
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: right and that and and so the five can do that, okay.

770
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: And the sex is the loyalist, Yeah, the six is

771
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: sometimes the loyalist or the loyal skeptic is sometimes what

772
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,240
Speaker 1: it's called UM. And this is says the committed security

773
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: or your type engageing, responsible, anxious and suspicious. UM. You

774
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: know this is right. I think you're a sex. Yeah,

775
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 1: I'm suspicious of you saying that, and it makes me

776
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: a little anxious. So the idea of the six again

777
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: is you're in this head zone, right, and so fear

778
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: and anticipatory anxiety is what a six does. And the

779
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,959
Speaker 1: funny thing about it, six and yes, that's where I landed.

780
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: I had no idea. I only knew one type. I wasn't.

781
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,359
Speaker 1: And then when I went to Helen and David, I said,

782
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 1: all I can tell you is when I'm not, and

783
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: they were both sixes, and so they landed me in

784
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 1: this six zone. I got up on stage with the

785
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,359
Speaker 1: sixes who were from all over the world. Right, these

786
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: are heads of hospitals, head of companies, heads of all

787
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,479
Speaker 1: sorts of you know, they came from all the world

788
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: to do this week together. So I'm really a skeptical

789
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: Well obviously I'm six. I'm skeptic skeptical, so I'm skeptical.

790
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,240
Speaker 1: I'm up there. But the one question the interviewer asked,

791
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 1: I couldn't stop laughing my head off because it's a

792
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: head type, right. They said, when you go to the

793
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 1: market and you're supposed to buy like a roll of

794
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 1: whatever paper towels, what do you do? And every single

795
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: one I was you said you buy seven rolls. And

796
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: then they said why, and they go, because you never

797
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 1: know when there's gonna be an earthquake or a disaster

798
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: and that story will close. So if you're bothering to

799
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 1: be there, you have to prepare for the worst case scenario.

800
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 1: And that's essentially what a six is is you come

801
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: out of the womb. Things aren't right, and you have

802
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 1: to think about what's the worst thing that can happen

803
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: and prepare yourself for it. So there's a lot of

804
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: focus on danger. That's the fear part, and there's a

805
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: lot of you know, when you go to that party,

806
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: you look at where the fire exits are. You look

807
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: at where the people are that could hurt you, people

808
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: that could protect you. If you go to like I

809
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: remember going to Dodger Stadium, I would see the police

810
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 1: in the stadium immediately, I know where all the exits

811
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: where I wasn't trying to do that. It's where your

812
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 1: attention goes. As a physician, being a six is really

813
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:45,720
Speaker 1: really challenging, and it's also wonderful because when a patient

814
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 1: comes to see you, you know, when I was doing

815
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: you know, medical medicine, I would say, Okay, well, I

816
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 1: think it's probably you know, an intestinal flu, but what

817
00:42:56,120 --> 00:43:00,120
Speaker 1: if it's a life threatening problem in their intestines? And

818
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: I would always second guess things. And I got to

819
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 1: be known in the hospital when I worked in a

820
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: hospital as a person who would find things that were

821
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,839
Speaker 1: so rare most human beings wouldn't even think about them.

822
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 1: But I would, and I'd find them and they would

823
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: actually sometimes be there and I'd save someone's life a

824
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: couple of times when I'm in pediatrics because I thought

825
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,839
Speaker 1: outside the box. Because now I know because I'm a six.

826
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: So it's it's exhausting when you're not actualized because you

827
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,800
Speaker 1: take everywhere you have seriously, So it can be really terrifying.

828
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 1: When you become actualized, you go, Isn't that amusing? So

829
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 1: actualization is more just like awareness, right, It's just being

830
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: conscious of your behavior and what you're where your attention goes,

831
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 1: like in a default mode exactly, I couldn't say better,

832
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: and the awareness of you're welcome, and then where you

833
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: go in the default mode you then can change. So

834
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: I don't have to buy seven rolls of paper towels anymore.

835
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 1: I can go there. I did this just yesterday. Was

836
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 1: so proud of myself. I went there and I just

837
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 1: bought two things. In the past, i'd buy you know,

838
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:07,359
Speaker 1: twenty five things, right, I try to avoid markets altogether. Well,

839
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: there you go, in my opinion, if you think it's

840
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,439
Speaker 1: best to just not go in. So that's the six

841
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 1: and there's two different variations, just so you know. The

842
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 1: fear can be so great. There's the anti fear types

843
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 1: and that Frandi six. Listening to this, you have to

844
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:21,879
Speaker 1: be very careful and I certainly had to be really

845
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 1: careful in my life where because the fear is so great,

846
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 1: you just completely shut it off. And fear can be

847
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: your friend, you know. And so when you completely shut

848
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 1: it off, you do stuff that's really dumb then endangers

849
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:37,240
Speaker 1: yourself for others. Because that was that's your style, you become.

850
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,439
Speaker 1: I forgot what the word is, but it's anti fear.

851
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: There's another word for it, um, And you know, so

852
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 1: I had to realize that was a tendency I have.

853
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: So you know, if I was in Africa recently and

854
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: some colleagues who mine were going out near this waterfall,

855
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: really big, big guys you know, and I'm not that big,

856
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 1: but they were big and they were going on. They

857
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 1: were adventurers, so they said come and become to me,

858
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 1: and so I said, I could go. This would be

859
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 1: a fun adventure with the boys. Um, but you know,

860
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 1: look at that waterfall, it's like two ft they're like

861
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 1: ten ft from it. They're walking slippery rocks. Mm hmm.

862
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 1: Is this my six stuff making me not do it, Well,

863
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: I should do it. I should do it. That's the

864
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: anti fear stuff, you know something, I'm not gonna do it.

865
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 1: They went, and they slipped, and one guy was going

866
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 1: right down the waterfall, and and the women were with us.

867
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: I go, you know, I feel like a whim. Look

868
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 1: I didn't go with the guys, and and one moment goes,

869
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:30,359
Speaker 1: you know what you are? I said, what she goes,

870
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,919
Speaker 1: You're a man. Those are just little boys. That guy

871
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: almost died. Yeah, I would do I would have gone

872
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 1: with them, for sure, Brandon, would you have gone with them?

873
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 1: I would have gone with them. Yeah, okay, yeah, but

874
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: see I have no regard for my personal safety. So

875
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: you're not a six that's or an anti six. But yeah, yeah,

876
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: but I don't know. I mean, the impetus to go

877
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 1: join them is more ego based, probably like to be

878
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: that girl, you know that wants to have fun, that's dangerous,

879
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 1: that's adventurous. So that's a different situation Shin. Yeah, well exactly,

880
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: because it's like, do I really want to go to

881
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 1: the waterfall? Sort of, but I could go either way

882
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:08,839
Speaker 1: too and be fine with not going. Okay, well, then

883
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: this is a good question based on her number being

884
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: an eight. If there weren't people there, would you still

885
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: go to the waterfall for yourself? Right? Good question for

886
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,240
Speaker 1: maybe it depends. I probably wouldn't have pushed. I wouldn't

887
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 1: push the limit on my own. I would be I

888
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 1: pushed the limit when people are watching really interesting. I

889
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 1: mean that's been my pattern of behavior. Who knows, maybe

890
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: it'll be different now. But when you say they were watching,

891
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 1: it's because you'd want to impress them, like I want

892
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: to be the girl. That's well both like I like

893
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 1: to I like adventure, but I also like to see people.

894
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 1: I like people to see me like having an adventure.

895
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 1: I like that aspect too. Okay, So let's come to

896
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 1: that in just one second, because we're gonna do the

897
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 1: seven and then we're onto you eight. Right, So we're

898
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: going in sequence. So anything else about the six? Six? Loyalist? Okay?

899
00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 1: So anxious, suspicious, responsible, engaging, security oriented, committed. Okay, So

900
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,359
Speaker 1: that's a six little okay, And I'll say one thing

901
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: more about the six that's so interesting is um because

902
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: you're always looking for the worst case scenario. You don't

903
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,399
Speaker 1: trust authority figures. You look at them and they say,

904
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 1: I believe I say this is true, and that's true,

905
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: and you just it's amazing. This is for all the

906
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 1: six is you just look at them, you go, I

907
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: don't believe that what you're saying is necessarily true, and

908
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 1: I will challenge it. And that can be an incredibly

909
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 1: when you're an actualized incredibly useful because then you look

910
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:35,479
Speaker 1: for the actual truth, not what is presented to you. Yeah,

911
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 1: so that is a good bonus. I'm proud to be

912
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: a six. Okay, what sounds like it? Okay, well, this

913
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: sounds like a good time to take a break. So

914
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 1: the seventh, the enthusiast, sounds pretty sweet. It the fun loving, spontaneous, versatile, distractable,

915
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 1: and scattered those I mean for that just sounds like

916
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: a good time. That's what I thought I was originally,

917
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: and then I list I was an eight because it

918
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: eight is a little bit more cynical. I think, yeah, Brandon,

919
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 1: that's what I would have said you were to when

920
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 1: I read this. I would have gone for scattered, distractable, Yes, exactly, spontaneous,

921
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 1: fun loving, and busy. Yeah, you know the seven Again,

922
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: we're still in the head business, right, So the five

923
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 1: is the head internal six is they head both focusing

924
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 1: inward and outward. The seven is an outward focused head type.

925
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 1: So one of the characteristics of the seven is, you know,

926
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:32,280
Speaker 1: they come out of the womb. They got to always

927
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 1: be planning things. What's the fun thing I can do?

928
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 1: What's the fun thing? What can I do next? What

929
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 1: can I do next? So, like at this meeting of

930
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: seven came to me and said, look, I live in

931
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: this other country in Asia. I love your approach. I

932
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 1: really want to do this project and I want to

933
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: do that project, and then we can have a third

934
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 1: project we do. And I said, those sounds so exciting.

935
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 1: And then he looks at me goes, they do, don't they?

936
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 1: I said, yeah, he goes, you realize we won't do

937
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 1: any of them. So what do you mean? He goes,

938
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: I'm a seven. I just come up with ideas. I

939
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,800
Speaker 1: don't follow through. Okay, So it's that it's that no

940
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 1: follow through. Well, then I definitely know a lot of

941
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:04,879
Speaker 1: people that are like that, you know, just but lots

942
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 1: of ideas, lots of ideas. And interestingly, one of the

943
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: Seven's had a broken leg and he was in a

944
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 1: cast and he was going to lose his mind, and

945
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 1: so he was up on the stage, and so people said,

946
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 1: what's going on? He goes as a seven. This is

947
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 1: what he said, as a seven. I always have to

948
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: be planning things, and I always have to have the

949
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: freedom to do whatever I want to do. Planning, planning, planning, planning, planning.

950
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: This broken leg is driving me mad because all I

951
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 1: want to do is do stuff and I can't do it.

952
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: I can't do it, and he literally was going to

953
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 1: explode out of his cast. A five, in contrast, who

954
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: had a broken leg, would say, cool, I can be

955
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,359
Speaker 1: in my room, I can control my time, I can

956
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 1: read all the books. I want, no problem. So you

957
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 1: can see with the same broken leg for a seven

958
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 1: on on actualized seven would drive them mad. For five,

959
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:59,319
Speaker 1: you say, what a golden opportunity to learn more interesting? Yeah? Yeah,

960
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 1: so know the seven. I know a couple of sevens,

961
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 1: and it's what I think. I know a lot of sevens.

962
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 1: You know what's fun about it is when they're actualized,

963
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 1: they realize, Okay, I have these twenty ideas. I know

964
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 1: I'm not good at following through, but I can actually

965
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 1: complete two of them, and I'm going to do that.

966
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:18,760
Speaker 1: Whereas an unactualized one would come up with twenty ideas,

967
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 1: start each of the twenty and none of them get done.

968
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: The actualized seven would say, I'm an adventurer. I like

969
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 1: to do these things. This is great. I picked twenty ideas.

970
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 1: I'm doing too. That's who I am. I'm a seven. Okay.

971
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:37,320
Speaker 1: Eight is the challenger or the fixer. Powerful, dominating type,

972
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: self confident, decisive, willful, and confrontational. How did you feel

973
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 1: when you heard that the first time? Sounds about right

974
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 1: for you? Powerful, dominating, self confident, decisive, I make yes, willful,

975
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 1: I can be indecisive, but I make decisions very quickly. Confrontational. Yes,

976
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: that's me. So let's talk about what you feel an

977
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:03,839
Speaker 1: unactualized eight would have as their life versus an actualized eight.

978
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 1: Uh and eight would be on the move all the time,

979
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:12,839
Speaker 1: you know, constantly going going going fast. Uh, lack of

980
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: you know, lack of empathy and angry and out like

981
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 1: you know, and and everybody knows it kind of like

982
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 1: a bully. H yeah, keep great. So so now we're

983
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 1: in the gut types. It's a gut reaction and for

984
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:33,360
Speaker 1: us it's it's anger, right, and so you're you're expressing that.

985
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 1: So an unactualized one then would be dominated by anger,

986
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:41,240
Speaker 1: not so much directed inwardly, because the the eight is

987
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 1: is this gut type that's outward focused and it's really

988
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 1: about um. That's our PDP system where we look in

989
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 1: word or outward and so for the eight, the anger

990
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 1: is all out there, which obviously can have be a

991
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 1: real problem for relationships. Yes, yeah, definitely a problematic. So

992
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: when I got a chance to interview a bunch of eights, uh,

993
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:00,879
Speaker 1: they're not only on this stage, but then I hung

994
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 1: out with them afterwards in each of the types. But

995
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: when I'm having dinner with the eights, this is what

996
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 1: they beautifully said, and this is what you referred to earlier.

997
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: I said, what's the bottom line. These are actualized dates

998
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,760
Speaker 1: who had come to a week long conference to study

999
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: their own type. So that's a pretty actualized person in

1000
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 1: general is going to do that or he's trying to

1001
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:22,800
Speaker 1: be Here's what they said. Two things we cannot stand.

1002
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:30,319
Speaker 1: One is being vulnerable. Yeah, and related to that of

1003
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:34,360
Speaker 1: course is needing others. I can't stand that. And the

1004
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 1: second thing is and this I couldn't believe they said this.

1005
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: This is a picture around the table about ten eights,

1006
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 1: all eights, right, having dinner with each other and me,

1007
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 1: and they said, we have no empathy. I said, what

1008
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 1: do you mean? I said, it's just not our our

1009
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,280
Speaker 1: go to. We can try to do it, but before

1010
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 1: we're actualized we have none, and now we we really try.

1011
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: We know. It's explains why you're so confrontational because you

1012
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:01,319
Speaker 1: don't understand other people they're doing things differently, or why

1013
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 1: they're slower or they have a different approach because you

1014
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:07,760
Speaker 1: have no empathy. Exactly. So it makes you angry, right exactly. So,

1015
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 1: So if you go with the PDP model, our view

1016
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: of the anger, the source of it is used to

1017
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:13,439
Speaker 1: be in the womb. You're not there. You come out,

1018
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:16,560
Speaker 1: Oh my god, what about piste you come out, piste off.

1019
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 1: I'm hungry. The world isn't doing what needs to do.

1020
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: Parents suck, parents, everybody sucks, even if they're great. Everybody sucks, right,

1021
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: so everyone's a disappointment and nobody gets there. There you go,

1022
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 1: that's an eight, right, So that's the anger is. So

1023
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 1: that's why for us in the PDP model, talking about

1024
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 1: anger and then the gut type makes a lot more

1025
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 1: sense because you can be a very cerebral eight, really smart.

1026
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 1: I mean it doesn't. So that's why we don't use

1027
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 1: those head, gut heart things. It's really here and anger.

1028
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 1: Now here's the amazing thing an eight before they're actualized.

1029
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:50,279
Speaker 1: We'll do all sorts of things to protect the underdog,

1030
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 1: but if that underdog doesn't stand up for herself for himself,

1031
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 1: they get really angry at them. All done in a

1032
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 1: million times? Okay, they you go, gone to battle for

1033
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,359
Speaker 1: somebody who couldn't defend themselves, and when it came time

1034
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 1: for them to defend themselves they couldn't. And then how

1035
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 1: did you react? Angry? There you go? Isn't Yeah, totally.

1036
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 1: So that's classic for an eight. I don't know, or

1037
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:16,360
Speaker 1: to return the favor to me, like to you know,

1038
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 1: to do the same to me in a situation like

1039
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 1: if I go about for somebody and they weren't able

1040
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 1: to go about for me in return, that would produce

1041
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: anger as well. Right, So think about the unactualized eight.

1042
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,319
Speaker 1: Then we're anger's their go to feeling. The focus is

1043
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 1: outward and there's there's not a cultivation of empathy, right,

1044
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: So you're you're incredibly empathic, now, Chelsea, I'm gonna say that, well,

1045
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,359
Speaker 1: I mean it's forced empathy. Okay, but whatever, just trying

1046
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 1: to overcorrect so that it lands somewhere in the middle.

1047
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 1: And about six months, well, your report of your friends

1048
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 1: as you're doing a great job feedback. But what I

1049
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 1: want to tell you is that an unactualized eight. Then

1050
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 1: imagine that combination no empathy and anger and this is

1051
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 1: feeling like you better stand up for yourself. They project

1052
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:05,240
Speaker 1: their own things about vulnerability, right and needing other people,

1053
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 1: and when this person isn't holding their own, bam, you

1054
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:12,800
Speaker 1: go after them. So they're scary. Yeah, yeah, they are scary.

1055
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 1: For it's can be super scary whether they're your lover

1056
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 1: or your parents, or your friend or your you know

1057
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: whatever position of a boss what's it or your boss, Brandon,

1058
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:27,800
Speaker 1: can you say a little bit more elaborate, go beyond

1059
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 1: your too concern about needing to be needed and you

1060
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 1: can say it. No, she's pretty good with me. It's

1061
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 1: other people. It's like people on the outside that I've

1062
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 1: seen the confrontation with. Yeah, and what have you noticed?

1063
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: But you also see the conversation with internal conflict. What

1064
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 1: do you mean are you talking about me getting upset

1065
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: with myself or okay, the law of times you can

1066
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 1: see it on the outside. But then when you see it,

1067
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 1: you know internally that they they're getting upset with themselves,

1068
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:59,240
Speaker 1: are angry with themselves about something. Well with with Chelsea,

1069
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: How did the work out? Understanding this eight business help

1070
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:06,319
Speaker 1: you put a frame on it and understand what the

1071
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:09,919
Speaker 1: whole system was about how Chelsea was behaving. Yes, because

1072
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 1: I see a lot of myself in her. So in

1073
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 1: her behaviors when she gets upset about something, That's what

1074
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:15,840
Speaker 1: I mean when he says he's trying to control me,

1075
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 1: he thinks that he I came from him and from

1076
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 1: his loins. Right goes back to the uterus. Um, do

1077
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: you still have your uterus? I do, but we'll get

1078
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 1: them taken out at the same time, and don't worry. Um.

1079
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 1: But so that was easy for me to see it

1080
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:31,839
Speaker 1: and rationalize those behaviors, but also know that she was

1081
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 1: trying and that in those moments when she was already

1082
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 1: frustrated and mad, knowing that it wasn't specific to maybe

1083
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 1: that situation or to the person that it was her

1084
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 1: reaction that was upsetting her, Like why couldn't I control

1085
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 1: how mad I was getting her? Why couldn't I control

1086
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: help set? That made me so think about what you

1087
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 1: just said, and all the empathy that is feeling Chelsea's feelings,

1088
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 1: trying to understand her perspective, um really making sense of

1089
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 1: what's going on in her line. Those are all the

1090
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 1: first three ingredients of empathy you know that you have

1091
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 1: in a huge way. Right, So I'm a two through

1092
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 1: and through. Yeah, there you go. So that's but that's beautiful, right,

1093
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 1: So you can use these empathic things and when you

1094
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:15,319
Speaker 1: add the PDP model, you go, Okay, here's the deal

1095
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: for all of us. We used to be just in

1096
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:21,919
Speaker 1: the state of being. We come out and now, oh

1097
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 1: my god, it's a nightmare, right because now you have

1098
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:25,959
Speaker 1: to work for a living. You gotta breathe, you gotta

1099
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 1: eat all the stuff. So for an eight, just to

1100
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 1: go finish the eight up, you know, the idea of

1101
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 1: being vulnerable and needing people. Just take those two things.

1102
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 1: You go back to this passage from being in the

1103
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:43,240
Speaker 1: womb at one with the uterus, and now you're out.

1104
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: You are piste off that you need other people. You're

1105
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 1: piste off that you're vulnerable. Now if you take that

1106
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:56,280
Speaker 1: eight propensity of anger right, that's focused outwardly without the

1107
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:58,919
Speaker 1: empathy being built and I'll think about having to chet

1108
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: right and what happened to you and how close you were,

1109
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 1: So you combine that propensity you likely had and now

1110
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 1: that trauma and loss you had, and the way the

1111
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 1: family didn't support each other and stay empathetically connected with

1112
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 1: one another right when that happened, and you can see

1113
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 1: where you did the best you could right to try

1114
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 1: to deal with it. That was your your eight nous

1115
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 1: became your protective shield to the vulnerability and needing people.

1116
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 1: So it's like an eight to the second power right

1117
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 1: at sixty four? Good at math, very good, you're sixty

1118
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:39,360
Speaker 1: four exactly. So it was an extreme version of an eight. Yes,

1119
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 1: it's amazing. I'm still alive. Okay, So it's actually amazing

1120
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 1: Brandon is still alive. That's the amazing live and thriving,

1121
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 1: alive and throbbing. Okay. Nine is the peacemaker. This sounds

1122
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 1: like the best number because they sound easy going, self

1123
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:59,440
Speaker 1: effacing type, receptive, reassuring, agreeable and complace it. Yeah. So

1124
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,200
Speaker 1: now we're still in from the antiagram point of view,

1125
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:05,919
Speaker 1: the gut type. So the eight, not nine and one

1126
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 1: are gut types. Right, So now that I don't know

1127
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 1: how that helps us with these really, But anyway, that's

1128
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 1: the Instagram term from our point of view, you know,

1129
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 1: it is the still the anger type. It's an inward

1130
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 1: and outward focus of attention. So it's kind of both.

1131
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:23,640
Speaker 1: And that's true of the nine and the six and

1132
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,439
Speaker 1: three whatever. There's a pattern here. But the point here

1133
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 1: is anger for a nine is the key emotion that

1134
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 1: should not be felt. That's the way to think about it.

1135
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 1: Unlike the one who has anger driving the inward lea.

1136
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 1: They've got to get things done in a certain way.

1137
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:42,440
Speaker 1: Eight the anger is expressed outwardly. The nine, it's angered

1138
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 1: that should not be experienced, so they do everything they

1139
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 1: can to make sure that people around them are getting along,

1140
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 1: get along, you know. This is why it's called the

1141
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 1: peacemaker and their vulnerability, just like with the two, and

1142
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 1: that's these are called lookalikes. Just like the one and

1143
00:59:57,640 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 1: the three can kind of look alike and be hard

1144
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 1: to tease a part, the nine and the two can

1145
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:06,480
Speaker 1: can be lookalikes too. The difference is, you know, the

1146
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 1: nine does give up self care just like the two. Um,

1147
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: but but there go to things as anger. So like

1148
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 1: when I've interviewed you know, thousands of people in in

1149
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 1: large rooms. I'll say, you know, how many of you

1150
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: have a go to place of anger versus sadness versus

1151
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 1: fear over people say one of those is my go

1152
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 1: to place. So for a nine, anger is the thing,

1153
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 1: whereas it too, it's really the sadness. So that's part

1154
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 1: of that helps you distinguish it. The other thing is

1155
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 1: that a nine is really trying to constantly look at

1156
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 1: the large picture and they're always taking care of a

1157
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 1: whole group system, whereas the two is more like one

1158
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 1: on one. I'm going to really meet your needs and

1159
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 1: be a lot of people are one on one. That's

1160
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 1: another personality traits. Some people function great in groups and

1161
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 1: some people can only have one on one conversations exactly so,

1162
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 1: and that's a whole Another way as we can look

1163
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 1: at you can divide this again is who's a group

1164
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 1: person called social, who's a one on one person like

1165
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 1: a relationship like this, and who's it more you know

1166
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 1: what's sometimes in the Instagram system called self preservation or

1167
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: you know what's internally focused like a five can tend

1168
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 1: to be that way. But you can have any of

1169
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 1: these nine numbers then be a group. You can have

1170
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:21,479
Speaker 1: a group nine. You can have a one on one nine,

1171
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 1: and you can have a self preservation nine. So that's

1172
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:27,439
Speaker 1: a whole other layout complexity. Yet in fact, that way

1173
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,000
Speaker 1: of dividing it, we could have a whole another conversation

1174
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:33,280
Speaker 1: about that. So the nine, what's the downside of a

1175
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:36,439
Speaker 1: nine is you give up your own needs, um, because

1176
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 1: you're trying to make everybody get along um. The classic

1177
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:42,000
Speaker 1: phrase about that is, you know, when you're packing for

1178
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:43,960
Speaker 1: a trip, you pack for everyone else in the house,

1179
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 1: and then you go to the airport, you forgot to

1180
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:49,440
Speaker 1: pack your own luggage. That's a nine, right, you know.

1181
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 1: And and the upside is you can be an incredible

1182
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 1: mediator where you can walk in a room and you

1183
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 1: can feel what's going on all around and has the

1184
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 1: whole system need to come to some kind of clear

1185
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 1: decision where everyone is getting a good way that they're

1186
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 1: all happy. So that's why it's called a peacemaker, you know,

1187
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 1: a mediator. And so each of these types, including the nine,

1188
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 1: when you're actualized, you can be a part of a group,

1189
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 1: part of your own life, your inner life. That's fantastic.

1190
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 1: So that's that's what we said. There's none of them

1191
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:24,120
Speaker 1: that are bad, but each of them have unique challenges

1192
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 1: called downsides or pitfalls, and then therefore a specific kind

1193
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 1: of growth edge for your type. And when you realize that,

1194
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 1: then the specificity of your internal growth can be so

1195
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 1: helpful because you go, Okay, this is what I'm working on.

1196
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 1: So Brandon doesn't need to work on growing more empathy.

1197
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 1: He needs to work on growing more self care. You

1198
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 1: need to work and growing more empathy, and you've been

1199
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 1: doing that. It is absolutely beautiful to see. Okay, well

1200
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 1: that those are the nine numbers, Brandon, do you have

1201
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:53,840
Speaker 1: any questions? I do? I have one final question. So now,

1202
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 1: for anyone who's listened to this who wants to try

1203
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 1: and self assess, say they come down to two numbers,

1204
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 1: what what is the way that someone would conclude what

1205
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:06,560
Speaker 1: they actually are if they feel torn between two? Well,

1206
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 1: this is a great question, Brandon, because as a scientist

1207
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 1: and as a clinician, what I'm going to say is

1208
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 1: that many people have different elements of different numbers. So

1209
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 1: let's say you've come down to two and you're doing

1210
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 1: the assessment. Just live with it. Don't feel like you

1211
01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 1: have to land in only one. And there's a reason

1212
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 1: for that one is we don't have the research to

1213
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 1: say everyone's just one. We don't have any research for that.

1214
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 1: So if you find yourself in two, that's you great,

1215
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:37,240
Speaker 1: look at the growth edges of both, that's a great question.

1216
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 1: What kind of research is there to back this up

1217
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 1: for people who may be listening and saying, oh, because

1218
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 1: you know when I when you told me about the instagram,

1219
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:46,880
Speaker 1: I was like, is this astrology adjacent? Or is this

1220
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 1: like numerology or any of those things that I don't

1221
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 1: find a lot of weight. And that's my own personal opinion,

1222
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 1: But what is the research behind all of this? So,

1223
01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:03,040
Speaker 1: in a nutshell, it was an idea that was inspired

1224
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:08,320
Speaker 1: by um o'chasa and Noronho who came up with this system.

1225
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 1: They then started teaching it and people said, oh, that

1226
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:13,919
Speaker 1: sounds about right with my personal experience. Oh sounds about

1227
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 1: right with my clinical experience. And then um one of

1228
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 1: those students, Helen Palmer, with David Daniels, said let's study

1229
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:24,880
Speaker 1: it by having people get up on stage who identified

1230
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 1: their types, and then they would just do these narratives. Basically,

1231
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 1: this is the research where they're incredibly similar patterns. If

1232
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 1: you were an eight or nine or a one or

1233
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:37,920
Speaker 1: two or three, and you just saw this just by

1234
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 1: literally collecting thousands and thousands and thousands of stories in

1235
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:44,800
Speaker 1: the narrative tradition UM. Then there have been a couple

1236
01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 1: of surveys done of people who have volunteered for it,

1237
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 1: where they found they've fit into these patterns. But my

1238
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 1: worry about that as a scientist is those are people

1239
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 1: who are already interested in the instagram. So it could

1240
01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:02,520
Speaker 1: be that people uninterested in the pogram are uninterested because

1241
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:06,440
Speaker 1: it doesn't match their experience and it's not relevant. So

1242
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 1: we need we need what's called epidemiological research to see

1243
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:12,400
Speaker 1: if you could apply these questions. Now, I as a

1244
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 1: therapist with my clients, patients you know, who don't come

1245
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:18,760
Speaker 1: to me because I'm in any grand person, because I'm

1246
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:22,160
Speaker 1: not known by that at all. You know, so far,

1247
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:26,760
Speaker 1: it's been universally helpful to say, here's our PDP model.

1248
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:29,400
Speaker 1: Do you fit somewhere in one of these nine? Maybe

1249
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 1: all of the nine? Oh I'm really these three? Okay, great?

1250
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:34,120
Speaker 1: Oh no, actually I'm probably more of these two. And

1251
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 1: so it's always been helpful. So I think there's a

1252
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:39,920
Speaker 1: there there, you know. I just think the science needs

1253
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:42,600
Speaker 1: to be doing epidemiology, not just some people who think

1254
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:46,240
Speaker 1: it's cool and interesting and so we can ask these questions.

1255
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 1: We actually have, uh wish to take these six twin pairs,

1256
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 1: some are identical twins, some are fraternal twins, and then

1257
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:57,960
Speaker 1: apply our model of the PDP, which is inspired by

1258
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:00,120
Speaker 1: the Instagram, but as you can see, it's different, and

1259
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 1: then see are identical twins more likely of the same

1260
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:07,080
Speaker 1: type then fraternal twins, which would be more like just siblings.

1261
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 1: We have we're working like Denise Daniels and Laura Baker

1262
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:14,520
Speaker 1: are genetics of personality experts, and so we're going to

1263
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 1: try to really do the science of it. It doesn't

1264
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 1: exist right now because the professional world of mental health

1265
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:23,560
Speaker 1: has not embraced the Instagram. It's really just a popular

1266
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 1: model um and you know, there are lots of ways

1267
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 1: of talking about the Instagram that are very unscientific, that

1268
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:33,680
Speaker 1: are people's opinions. I think the Instagram and the narrative

1269
01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:36,480
Speaker 1: tradition is so useful because there it's just literally what's

1270
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:40,040
Speaker 1: called naturalistic data. That is, you take thousands and thousands

1271
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 1: of people, hear their stories and then you say, wow,

1272
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:45,600
Speaker 1: something's going on here. We don't know exactly what, but

1273
01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:50,200
Speaker 1: something's going on. Great, Okay, Well that's all very helpful

1274
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 1: to break down, a very easy breakdown, And you guys

1275
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 1: can go online and find more about this, or you

1276
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 1: can get that any gram book that I like, the

1277
01:06:56,960 --> 01:06:59,360
Speaker 1: David Daniels one, which kind of broke it down for me.

1278
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:00,920
Speaker 1: It's a great thing to take away for a weekend

1279
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:03,840
Speaker 1: with your family or you know, with friends, and everybody

1280
01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 1: can try and to assess which personality type they are,

1281
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 1: which is what we did in Mexico one weekend with

1282
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 1: eight girls and we clung to this book like life rafts,

1283
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:14,240
Speaker 1: and then of course we went away. I've never seen

1284
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:16,280
Speaker 1: any of those girls since, so I have no idea

1285
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:19,480
Speaker 1: how anybody's doing. But yeah, so thank you Dan, thanks

1286
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 1: for breaking down the angiogram for us and the PDP model,

1287
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:25,439
Speaker 1: your version, which is the PDP model A pleasure, right,

1288
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:28,520
Speaker 1: And yeah, and that's it. That's all we've got for

1289
01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:30,920
Speaker 1: you today. Guys. There you go go, go get your

1290
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:34,480
Speaker 1: books and figure out what your fucking problem is. Well,

1291
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:36,960
Speaker 1: you can buy my book, Life Will Be the Death

1292
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:38,960
Speaker 1: of Me is available in stores now, the New York

1293
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:42,040
Speaker 1: Times number one bestseller. Thank you Brandon and Dan Siegel

1294
01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:43,760
Speaker 1: has also written a lot of books, so if you

1295
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:45,520
Speaker 1: look him up, um you can find a lot of

1296
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 1: books about mindfulness and adolescent brain development and blah blah

1297
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:52,760
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. And I have added stand up dates.

1298
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:59,280
Speaker 1: I am doing stand up in Atlanta on June, Montclair June, Westbury,

1299
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:05,800
Speaker 1: Long Island June nine. Their tickets still available for Westbury, St. Louis, Missouri, Minneapolis, Nashville,

1300
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 1: New Orleans, Brisbane, Australia, Sydney, Australia, and Melbourne, Australia. We

1301
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 1: will continue to add dates, but these are the latest dates.

1302
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 1: So if you want to see me do stand up,

1303
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:16,920
Speaker 1: you can go to Live Nation dot com or Chelsea

1304
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:19,320
Speaker 1: Handler dot com. And we'll be back next week with

1305
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 1: my guest, who is Sean Hayes, who came on the

1306
01:08:22,360 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 1: road with me for my shows in Chicago. Life will

1307
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:26,200
Speaker 1: Be the Death of Me as a production of i

1308
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 1: Heeart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit

1309
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:31,880
Speaker 1: the i Heeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

1310
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.