WEBVTT - Former West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin (D)  Talks Iran War, Government Spending

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>Now back here in our Washington, d C studios. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>pleased to say Joe and I are joined by a

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<v Speaker 2>very important guest, the former Senator from West Virginia, first,

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<v Speaker 2>a Democrat, that an independent, Joe Manchin is here with

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<v Speaker 2>us on balance of power. He of course also is

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<v Speaker 2>author of Dead Center in Defense of Common Sense. Thank

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<v Speaker 2>you so much, Senator.

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<v Speaker 1>For thanks for having your time with both of you, and.

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<v Speaker 2>We do want to get into the politics of today

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<v Speaker 2>and your dead Center thesis here, But if we could

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<v Speaker 2>begin with Ron, the conflict that the President pursued and

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<v Speaker 2>that Congress, frankly, to this point has played very little

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<v Speaker 2>role in. I wonder if you're looking at your former

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<v Speaker 2>colleagues who had no say in the start of this war,

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<v Speaker 2>have had no say in the conduct of this war

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<v Speaker 2>to this point, but some are suggesting should have a

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<v Speaker 2>say in how it ends, if this is to end

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<v Speaker 2>in some kind of formalized treatment.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, first of all, in any of these conflicts, if

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<v Speaker 1>you look back through history, even if they did not

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<v Speaker 1>go the way we intended them to go, there always

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<v Speaker 1>knowledge of what was going to happen. And if you

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<v Speaker 1>had a chance you could agree, and you could agree

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<v Speaker 1>to disagree. This had no input whatsoever or any knowledge

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<v Speaker 1>of what was going to ear the end game, what

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<v Speaker 1>was going to happen, And I think it's been hard

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<v Speaker 1>to dissect what was our main purpose. Everyone was concerned

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<v Speaker 1>about them having nuclear arsenals and if they did, and

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<v Speaker 1>their prolific terrorism support around the world. It was something

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<v Speaker 1>we all should be concerned. The free world should be

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<v Speaker 1>concerned about that. And you could have brought more people

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<v Speaker 1>along if we could have proven that they were at

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<v Speaker 1>this enrichment that we had to do something at that time,

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<v Speaker 1>we could have had a multi, multi nation of Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>how do we keep the straits open, how do we

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<v Speaker 1>secure free shipping? How do we make sure they do

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<v Speaker 1>not have access to nuclear weapons? They can do harm

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<v Speaker 1>to everybody, And we're not going to basically force a

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<v Speaker 1>regime chain because we've never been good at that. It's

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<v Speaker 1>an ideology, it's not just a position. So with that

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<v Speaker 1>being said, could we have neutralized them so they could

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<v Speaker 1>not add that reach that they've had so with the

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<v Speaker 1>hoodies and amas and and all their different has belong,

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<v Speaker 1>all their different sanctions, if you will, as far as

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<v Speaker 1>around around that part of the world, and also making

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<v Speaker 1>sure that the Gulf States. You know, I've said, this

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<v Speaker 1>is not going to be a gentile country, a Jewish country.

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<v Speaker 1>They can go into the Muslim world and government that

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<v Speaker 1>can't do it. What they can do is help prepare

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<v Speaker 1>the basis for a Muslim basically a regime that is

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<v Speaker 1>more agreeable with the world order. So we've got to hope, now,

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<v Speaker 1>how do we get out of this? But they can't

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<v Speaker 1>return right now unless you know, you've stopped the main

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<v Speaker 1>intent of having nuclear weapons, and that means where is

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<v Speaker 1>the rich you know, I hope it's not another Iraq.

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<v Speaker 1>We had wars of mass destruction, weapons of mass destruction,

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<v Speaker 1>and we couldn't find its right, So we're hoping that's

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<v Speaker 1>not the case. And I don't they've just I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>we thought we've newted them, if you will, But my goodness,

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<v Speaker 1>they keep firing and they keep having missiles. And I'm

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<v Speaker 1>understanding China has really come in strong in help and

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<v Speaker 1>defense of our end. That's not a good sign.

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<v Speaker 3>But so the extent you think Congress has abdicated its

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<v Speaker 3>duties so far, there will be another inflection point coming

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<v Speaker 3>when we reach the sixty day mark of this conflict

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<v Speaker 3>that'll be on April twenty ninth, and we've heard from

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<v Speaker 3>a number of members it said, look, you know, the

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<v Speaker 3>president's got some bandwidth here. Does the debate change at

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<v Speaker 3>that point in the parlance of war powers, when we're

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<v Speaker 3>sixty days into this and there might not be an

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<v Speaker 3>end insight.

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<v Speaker 1>Well it should. You know, we've up until Iraq and

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<v Speaker 1>Afghanistan wars, we paid for every wars and dedicated funds

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<v Speaker 1>that paid for the wars that we had, so we

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<v Speaker 1>didn't incur any more than debtedness. We saw what the

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<v Speaker 1>Afghanistan Iraq war did to us as far as it's

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<v Speaker 1>accumulating more debt, and now we're at thirty nine pushing

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<v Speaker 1>forty trillion dollars. A civilized country cannot survive that because

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<v Speaker 1>sooner or later it's going to be such a burden

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<v Speaker 1>on the people, the citizens, that they will reject what's

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<v Speaker 1>going on. And when that happens, you just get total dysfunction.

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<v Speaker 1>We're close to that, and we're an inflection point now

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<v Speaker 1>to where okay, no one's talking about the debt. We've raised.

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<v Speaker 1>We've increased the debt more in the last five months,

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<v Speaker 1>faster than any history. As I'm understanding, it's over one

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<v Speaker 1>trillion dollars. This is whenever the debt exceeds the cost

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<v Speaker 1>of defending your country. So we're one trillion dollars. We've

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<v Speaker 1>passed a one trillion mark. That's greater than what we

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<v Speaker 1>have as far as what we pay to defend the country.

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<v Speaker 1>I know the President wants to increase that to one

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<v Speaker 1>point five trillion dollars. That's going to be a very

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<v Speaker 1>very heavy lift. The power of the purse is still

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<v Speaker 1>in the House, okay, and it has to have agreement

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<v Speaker 1>with the Senate. That's the balance you have. The Senate

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<v Speaker 1>has the filibuster, the sixty vote threshold, which is a

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<v Speaker 1>wonderful thing for our country up until now. It's the

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<v Speaker 1>only time it's not wonderful is if you're in power,

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<v Speaker 1>if you're in the majority, you want total absolute power.

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<v Speaker 1>So the Democrats wanted to get rid of the filibuster

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<v Speaker 1>when they had it last twenty twenty with Joe Biden.

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<v Speaker 1>I would not do it under any circumstances, and Christian

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<v Speaker 1>Simon did not do it. So without us two, or

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<v Speaker 1>without even one of us, they could not get rid

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<v Speaker 1>of the filibuster. Now the President wants the Republicans to

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<v Speaker 1>get rid of it because they want a voting right,

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<v Speaker 1>and both of them want to get rid of it

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<v Speaker 1>because of a voting of a voting law that that's

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<v Speaker 1>both one Deersions Save America Act. Yeah. So with that

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<v Speaker 1>being on, I said, wait a minute, the bottom line

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<v Speaker 1>is you're going to be flip flopping back like most

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<v Speaker 1>European parliaments do. If you do that, we have stable government.

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<v Speaker 1>When we pass legislation, it's going to be there for

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<v Speaker 1>quite some time. It's harder to get rid of it. Yeah. Two,

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<v Speaker 1>and what happens is that we won't be that superpower

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<v Speaker 1>with the predictability instability that the world has looked towards.

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<v Speaker 1>And right now I'm concerned about that. Well.

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<v Speaker 2>And your defense of the filibuster has been well documented

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<v Speaker 2>to this point. The Senate Majority Leader John Thune has

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<v Speaker 2>also tried his best to defend it. Refuse the talking

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<v Speaker 2>filibuster that President Trump asked, for example. But I wonder

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<v Speaker 2>what you make of the notion that to get around

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<v Speaker 2>the filibuster, we're just doing a bunch of budget reconciliation packages. Obviously,

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<v Speaker 2>you are a critical vote for Democrats and the Biden

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<v Speaker 2>administration and a reconciliation package. We've seen Republicans already successfully

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<v Speaker 2>pursue one this Congress. They're talking now about two point

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<v Speaker 2>zero and three point oh. Was this just the way

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to do something?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, this is exactly what the Democrats try to do.

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<v Speaker 1>And I told Chuck Schumer, I said, Chuck, the establishment

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<v Speaker 1>of the Senate is the most liberate body in the world. Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>It was not designed to run on simple majority fifty one.

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<v Speaker 1>It was designed to run on more of a consensus,

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<v Speaker 1>and that means that the minority would always have input.

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<v Speaker 1>As a senator. It didn't really make that much difference

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<v Speaker 1>to those of us who might not be the majority

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<v Speaker 1>leader or in leadership, because we still had input. We

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<v Speaker 1>could talk, our voice was important, and our vote was

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<v Speaker 1>very important. So you always were needed to sit down

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<v Speaker 1>and negotiate and work through things. Now they're getting to

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<v Speaker 1>the point where they said, we'll just disregard that. And

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<v Speaker 1>I told President Biden. I said, President, what you're doing

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<v Speaker 1>here and allowing this to go into reconciliation coming in

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<v Speaker 1>with American Rescue Plan ARP is wrong. I said, you're

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<v Speaker 1>the one on the stage as I recall running for

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<v Speaker 1>president that said, I know how it works. I've worked

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<v Speaker 1>with these people. I know how to bring people together.

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<v Speaker 1>And now you're throwing a nuclear option, what we call

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<v Speaker 1>the nuclear option, just coming out of the gate. And

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<v Speaker 1>I believe they would have ran the one hundred and

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<v Speaker 1>seventeenth Congress, which is twenty twenty one through twenty January

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty three, with four reconciliation bills two and twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty one in two and twenty two, and I said,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to you need my vote, You're not

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<v Speaker 1>going to get it. Not going to happen. And I

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<v Speaker 1>killed the build back better because it was basically thrown

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<v Speaker 1>so much. It had been a ten trillion dollar bill,

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<v Speaker 1>we'd have thrown the world, I believe into a recession,

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<v Speaker 1>if not a depression. It was awful. You cannot digest

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<v Speaker 1>that much money in the system when they did the

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<v Speaker 1>When American Rescue Plan was passed in January of twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty one, that means within one year we put five

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<v Speaker 1>point one trillion dollars of government spending. The end of

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<v Speaker 1>the system, we run the government about five and a

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<v Speaker 1>half train dollars. During that period of time, we doubled

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<v Speaker 1>the amount of money we couldn't digest it. You talk

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<v Speaker 1>about fraud, abuse, some waste, that's how it happens. And

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<v Speaker 1>you see what's happening when.

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<v Speaker 3>We were all chasing you around every day up there,

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<v Speaker 3>trying to get a number from you. And I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>you really held the cards at that point, Senator, who's

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<v Speaker 3>the Joe Manchin?

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<v Speaker 1>Now?

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<v Speaker 3>Because they're talking about two point zero and three point zero,

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<v Speaker 3>the President's already backed one of these plans. They're talking

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<v Speaker 3>about Save America maybe being in the next one, and

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<v Speaker 3>everyone wants to know how many limbs we can get

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<v Speaker 3>on this Christmas tree?

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<v Speaker 1>Is there a mansion or a set? I would like

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<v Speaker 1>to I think there is. I truly believe in my

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<v Speaker 1>heart of hearts there is. Yeah. But what they have

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<v Speaker 1>to come to realization what's your purpose? Is it about

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<v Speaker 1>your country or about your party? So once you get

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<v Speaker 1>that in your mind, who do I serve? I said,

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<v Speaker 1>I told Harry Read one time. I said, Harry, I

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<v Speaker 1>can't vote for that. He got upset and I said, Hary, listen,

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<v Speaker 1>you didn't hire me, and you can't fire me. And

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<v Speaker 1>I said, I don't work for you. I don't work

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<v Speaker 1>for the president. I don't work for anyone here except

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<v Speaker 1>my oath to the Constitution to protect and defend it.

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<v Speaker 1>I took that oath and the people back home in

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<v Speaker 1>West Virginia, and if I can't go home and explain it,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not voting for it. I was never afraid of

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<v Speaker 1>getting defeated to go home because I had to live

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<v Speaker 1>with my and I know there's enough good Republicans and

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<v Speaker 1>enough good Democrats that feel the same way. They seem

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<v Speaker 1>to have the courage. This might be my last hurrah.

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<v Speaker 1>But if I'm going to go out, I'm going out

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<v Speaker 1>on my terms and do what's right for your country.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, you can be respectfully. The president has

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<v Speaker 1>a temper. I know him pretty well, but you can

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<v Speaker 1>work with him. Just be respectful, and said, mister President.

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<v Speaker 1>If he gets mad and calls you dumb, stupid and

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<v Speaker 1>ugly and everything else, just say, oh, he doesn't really

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<v Speaker 1>mean that. He's my friend. He'll get over it. Yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>but do it respectfully, because I think he would respect

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<v Speaker 1>that more. Knowing that you feel very strongly about your position.

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<v Speaker 1>The biggest thing in the political arena today. It's easy

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<v Speaker 1>to be against something. Tell me what you would be

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<v Speaker 1>for if we could change it help me before you,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm against it. Have you thought about this? Would you

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<v Speaker 1>try this? I think it might work better. I've done

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<v Speaker 1>what you're going to do right now, and I've made

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<v Speaker 1>that mistake. I'm asking you not to repeat it. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>be positive, don't be negative, don't call people names, don't

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<v Speaker 1>say saw the Democrats fault or it's all the Republicans fault.

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<v Speaker 1>It's all of our fault for allowing the Democrats and

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<v Speaker 1>Republicans to mess the system up this bad.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it gets back to your dead Center book and

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<v Speaker 2>our final moment here a senator candid dead center candidate

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<v Speaker 2>survive the primary system to have a successful run at

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<v Speaker 2>the presidency? Would you try, sir?

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<v Speaker 1>I would have loved to been able to be on

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<v Speaker 1>the stage, to be able to talk what was normal

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<v Speaker 1>and common sense to people, how they live their lives,

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<v Speaker 1>what's important to them, and how we treat people around

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<v Speaker 1>the world, and how we have people that want the

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<v Speaker 1>same quality of life the same economies that we have

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<v Speaker 1>here in the US. That's what you prosper To be

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<v Speaker 1>a superpower the world takes more than being just a

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<v Speaker 1>super military or a super economy. You have to have

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<v Speaker 1>supercompassion for those less Fortunately, and if you don't show that,

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<v Speaker 1>people won't follow you. We've got to change and the system,

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<v Speaker 1>the process, whether it's a third candidate, change the process

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<v Speaker 1>of how we elect. Open up your primaries, let more people,

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<v Speaker 1>don't let the Democrat Republican Party control everything because they're

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<v Speaker 1>screwing it up.

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<v Speaker 3>You got to love that Kaylee's still asking you whether

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<v Speaker 3>you're going to run, right, that's the point there. Joe

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<v Speaker 3>Manchers and us live in Washington.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you, Thank you, Joe. Good to be with you

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<v Speaker 1>only here. Thank you, thank you.