WEBVTT - Damian Woetzel

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, everybody, thanks for pulling up a chair today on

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<v Speaker 1>Table for Two. We're not in Hollywood. We're actually just

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<v Speaker 1>a little south of Lincoln Center. And if you didn't

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<v Speaker 1>know this, Lincoln Center is my favorite place on earth.

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<v Speaker 2>What's going to be a good thing to eat while

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<v Speaker 2>being interviewed by Bruce.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, Today we're having lunch with a gentleman who was

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<v Speaker 1>the principal dancer for the New York City Ballet from

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty five to two thousand and eight. Do you

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<v Speaker 1>understand the magnitude of that He's one of the greatest

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<v Speaker 1>living ballet dancers ever and he is currently the president

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<v Speaker 1>of the most prestigious arts school in New York, Juilliard.

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<v Speaker 2>What if I hadn't tried dancing?

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<v Speaker 3>Great?

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<v Speaker 2>What if I don't know, I was very argumentative. I

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<v Speaker 2>guess I'd be a lawyer or something.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, we're having lunch with Damian Wetzel.

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<v Speaker 1>So sit back, grab a glass of rose, enjoy this

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<v Speaker 1>beautiful afternoon in New York City with me and Damian Wetzel.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Bruce Bosi and this is my podcast Table for Two.

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<v Speaker 1>We're having lunch with I didn't realize the length of

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<v Speaker 1>time that you were at New York City Ballet, and

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<v Speaker 1>that you were a principal dancer dancing your ass off

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<v Speaker 1>in nineteen eighty five.

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<v Speaker 3>It's two thousand and eight.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I moved here in eighty four to go to

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<v Speaker 2>the school American Valley, which was City Valley School and

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<v Speaker 2>kind of in an early full circle that used to

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<v Speaker 2>be in Juilliard. It was like the school was housed

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<v Speaker 2>in Juilliard. So when people ask did you go to Juilliard,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, kind of because SAB was on the third fourth, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was its own like school within a school,

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<v Speaker 2>but we shared a cafeteria and it was like I

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<v Speaker 2>was around all the musicians and actors and dancers that

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<v Speaker 2>were part of Juilliard. And so I was eighty four

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<v Speaker 2>and then I joined City Ballet, you know, May eighty five.

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<v Speaker 2>Ballet was sort of one thing among many. Definitely not

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<v Speaker 2>the intention like this is going to be a dancer, No, no, no.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was literally that I was bouncing off

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<v Speaker 2>the walls and there were some choices to be made

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<v Speaker 2>about how to spend time, and that seemed like a

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<v Speaker 2>culturally kind of exciting way to maybe try.

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<v Speaker 3>Yea, I know, the amount of physical work.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know it because I've never done it, but

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<v Speaker 1>I appreciate it and I feel like that going to

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<v Speaker 1>school and then studying ballet, like you guys are athletes

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<v Speaker 1>in a way that nobody else was an athlete, and

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<v Speaker 1>our culture doesn't even actually categorize you as athletes.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel so. I remember once being an eighth grade

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<v Speaker 2>science class, and I don't know how this happened, but

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<v Speaker 2>the science teacher was talking about sports and put up

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<v Speaker 2>a picture on the projector of Edward Vallella so Vera.

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<v Speaker 2>Villella was one of the greatest male dancers America has

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<v Speaker 2>ever produced. He and Jackdams were like their initial principal

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<v Speaker 2>dancers for balancing at City Ballet. So this is my

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<v Speaker 2>first kind of exposure. In some ways, I knew who

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<v Speaker 2>Eddie Vellella was. He's definitely an idol, you know, along

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<v Speaker 2>with like Barishnikoff and other people, but Eddie's a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit earlier generation. And there was a Life magazine cover

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<v Speaker 2>of Eddie Valella flying through the air, and I think,

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<v Speaker 2>so again, is it true or is it my memory?

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<v Speaker 2>But the headline was is this the world's greatest athlete?

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<v Speaker 2>And my science class was like full who are like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>this is what you do bingo. It was like new

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<v Speaker 2>respect starts to creep in and it was something else.

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<v Speaker 3>Is that science teacher too.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, missus Pollock? Yeah, I think that was her name. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that's all. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>You also came into as young adults now dancing. You

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<v Speaker 1>were dancing in the mid eighties, which became a very

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<v Speaker 1>dark period in the arts because many people were dying.

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<v Speaker 2>People are dying.

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<v Speaker 3>What was that experience.

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<v Speaker 1>How did that affect I mean, I'm sure there were dancers,

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<v Speaker 1>so you were dancing with that would have been.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, some of the best we lost. We lost people

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<v Speaker 2>in City Ballet. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful guys. By the time

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<v Speaker 2>I'm in, you know, in my late teens, and this

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<v Speaker 2>is the AIDS epidemic is going on. It's again through

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<v Speaker 2>the lens of all the artists. Are you know, disproportionately

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<v Speaker 2>being affected by this. When you walk into State Theater,

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<v Speaker 2>which we shared with the New York City Opera, which

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't exist anymore, and the notices day after day after

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<v Speaker 2>day of the people, you know, the memorials, and it

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<v Speaker 2>was just like you know, and then the art starts

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<v Speaker 2>getting made. Then you've got Larry Kramer, Tony and the

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<v Speaker 2>things that are starting to happen that reflect right work

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<v Speaker 2>and the movement an AIDS walk and I remember Heather

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<v Speaker 2>other created the team, so the AIDS watch. It was like,

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<v Speaker 2>let's have a team that walks, and you know, so

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<v Speaker 2>City Ballet had a team and we would you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was like a sense of community fighting the

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<v Speaker 2>futility of it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So Damien, when did you know I've now stepped

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<v Speaker 1>into this room? When did you know, like, okay, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>actually now a principal dance room.

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<v Speaker 3>What was it a ballet? Was the evolution of being like,

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<v Speaker 3>oh I'm here.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, there was a a couple of things that

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<v Speaker 2>kind of were signals. What was simply the ability to

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<v Speaker 2>do it, like, you know, because to get a chance

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<v Speaker 2>and be able to succeed, it's not a guarantee. And

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<v Speaker 2>so getting some key parts Ruby's was one of them.

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<v Speaker 2>I was still in the Court of cass and I

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<v Speaker 2>got one show out of the five that we're going

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<v Speaker 2>and I got my one and you know, getting being

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<v Speaker 2>able to deliver it. Okay, So there's that. I remember

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<v Speaker 2>thinking like what is going to be necessary?

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<v Speaker 3>Now?

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<v Speaker 2>What do I need to you know, and I thought,

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<v Speaker 2>you need to be indispensable and what does that look like?

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<v Speaker 2>And it was like, you've got to be a go

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<v Speaker 2>to person, got to be a person who can partner

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<v Speaker 2>as well as dance. Well, not enough just to jump high.

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<v Speaker 2>You're not going to get the real parts if you

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<v Speaker 2>can't also do that. You're going to need to be

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<v Speaker 2>able to learn fast in you know, if there's you,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, some people learn. Everybody learns differently, right, multiple

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<v Speaker 2>intelligences all the way. And for me it was like,

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<v Speaker 2>what is it? How fast can I learn a ballet?

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<v Speaker 2>And so I thought, okay, that's being And so in

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<v Speaker 2>the end what happens is, I'm twenty one of the

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<v Speaker 2>great dancers of all time at City Ballet is injured

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<v Speaker 2>and I suddenly they start throwing shit at me. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>been getting to do part after part after part after

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<v Speaker 2>part in one season. So this is nineteen eighty eight,

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<v Speaker 2>so I'm twenty one, and between November November I'm in

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<v Speaker 2>the corps January. I mean, I made a soloist and

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<v Speaker 2>may I'm made a principle. Wow, because I've done a

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<v Speaker 2>huge swath of repertory and I've managed it, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>in dispenser at least then at least right then, and

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<v Speaker 2>then you know, then you have other phases happened, But

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<v Speaker 2>there was like that was the thing for me when

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<v Speaker 2>I knew that. You know, basically, you could call me

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<v Speaker 2>at six point thirty for an eight o'clock show, say

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<v Speaker 2>we need you to do this, and I was going

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<v Speaker 2>to be.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, and you could do it.

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<v Speaker 2>I would be okay. Yeah, it may not be perfect,

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<v Speaker 2>but I was going to be okay, you know, And

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<v Speaker 2>I loved that. I loved that sense of emergency too,

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<v Speaker 2>which is it's like a drug.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, like, oh yeah, you're home.

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<v Speaker 2>I love it. Sitting at a restaurant on Columbus Avenue,

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<v Speaker 2>somebody wears Damien. Oh we saw him sitting in Lingay.

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<v Speaker 2>That happened. I call at the restaurant, Yeah, it's great.

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<v Speaker 3>And then next thing, you know, you're.

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<v Speaker 2>Good, getting a makeup and go yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean.

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<v Speaker 2>The thing that is though a lot of that is

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<v Speaker 2>the other things. The reason like I could learn fast

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<v Speaker 2>was because I'd studied music to some degree. It fed

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<v Speaker 2>in I was a kid, you know, New England Conservatory

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<v Speaker 2>on Saturday mornings before I was at ballet class. I

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<v Speaker 2>was doing that so I had a musical education of

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<v Speaker 2>some sort that I could read a score, I could

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<v Speaker 2>do things like that that really helped, you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>had and then the work i'd done, Like so when

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<v Speaker 2>I was at SAV School American Ballet, it's like the company. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>so SAV is the school of the company. I would

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<v Speaker 2>take a ten thirty class, a twelve thirty class, and

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<v Speaker 2>then sometimes a five thirty class. In between the twelve

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<v Speaker 2>thirty and the five thirty, I would go to the

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<v Speaker 2>public library and I'd watch films and I just watched

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<v Speaker 2>videos as much as I could. I had a ritual.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I had no real money, but I was okay,

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<v Speaker 2>I just enough and I would I would go and

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<v Speaker 2>i'd watch the video of the people that the things.

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<v Speaker 2>So I was like studying and trying to learn. I

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<v Speaker 2>loved it. It was so great. Loved it. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>could not get enough. Couldn't get enough. But that was

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<v Speaker 2>part of it. Was like recognizing that there's more to

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<v Speaker 2>it than just what goes on, you know in the

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<v Speaker 2>studio or you know, I joined a gym to be

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<v Speaker 2>able to lift or whatever, but you know, and I

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<v Speaker 2>was listening to music and just and also just trying

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<v Speaker 2>to live going to the clubs. I remember going to area.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean I just thought, go to an area back then,

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<v Speaker 2>you probably yeah. I mean it was hard to get

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<v Speaker 2>in at first, and then you know, you figured it out.

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<v Speaker 2>Go to Palladium, going to places that like opened your

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<v Speaker 2>mind to New York, the New yorkness of it, all,

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<v Speaker 2>the specialness. Go to the opera for the first times

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<v Speaker 2>at the Metropolitan Opera, learning how to sneak into City Ballet,

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<v Speaker 2>to like get in, knowing the ushers.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>Security was different then. I mean, I don't know, it's

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<v Speaker 2>like timing. I was like able to like bluff my

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<v Speaker 2>way in, so I saw everything. I remember going to

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<v Speaker 2>Carnegie Hall for the first time and seeing like almost

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<v Speaker 2>a fight break out over music, and I remember that

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<v Speaker 2>really impressed me. It was like, because the great conductor

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<v Speaker 2>Ricardo Mouti was conducting something and that's the as the

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<v Speaker 2>as the piece ended, I guess.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't remember.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess it was the middle of the concert, somebody

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<v Speaker 2>screamed boo for Mooty and somebody else said, dare you.

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<v Speaker 2>I was just like, wow, this is crazy here at

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<v Speaker 2>Carnegie Hall. I never seen it again since, but you

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<v Speaker 2>never know. These things make an impression. Yeah, the passion.

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<v Speaker 2>I think key moments, Like you asked about that when

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<v Speaker 2>you note things the first time, I like I kind

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<v Speaker 2>of appreciated that complexity is not necessarily what you think.

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<v Speaker 2>It is, Like the simple things can be the most complex.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like you read like drawing a perfect circle is

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<v Speaker 2>like the hardest thing. You know, it was like, but

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<v Speaker 2>look looks really easy. But like the the cord, the

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<v Speaker 2>ability to walk on stage, forget about the steps, just

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<v Speaker 2>walking when you realize that as a as you know,

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<v Speaker 2>whenever I was seventeen eighteen, you know I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>walk out there, and you suddenly start to question that

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<v Speaker 2>and you're like start to really kind of go inside

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<v Speaker 2>and say, well, what is it? Where's my how? And

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<v Speaker 2>you realize how those simple things are actually the hardest,

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<v Speaker 2>and then finally realizing as a performer that the whole point,

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<v Speaker 2>the whole point, is to connect with the audience, and

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<v Speaker 2>that's a very complex thing, very simple and complex. Like

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<v Speaker 2>Jerry Robbins was the one who was like always like

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<v Speaker 2>his ideal state he would talk about many of his

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<v Speaker 2>ballets was that you do not even never consider the audience.

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<v Speaker 2>They should be like observers who happen upon and they

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<v Speaker 2>get to see this world. Don't sell it, yeah, don't

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<v Speaker 2>like you know, look, you know sell you know, unless

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<v Speaker 2>that's the part to do it. But then when you

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<v Speaker 2>start to kind of take that apart a little bit,

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<v Speaker 2>it's like, so I'm I'm never going to actually forget them,

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<v Speaker 2>so I'm actually acting like I'm not recognized. So it's

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<v Speaker 2>like doubly kind of false in a way, which is

0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:18.280
<v Speaker 2>that it's so hard. It's so hard, you know. So

0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:20.800
<v Speaker 2>that's like when I got to that place where there

0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:23.520
<v Speaker 2>was something else. I remember with Robin's like the first

0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:26.600
<v Speaker 2>time I recognized that what he was doing in many

0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:30.120
<v Speaker 2>of his dances was this a completely different type of

0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:33.240
<v Speaker 2>movement than I'd ever tried. Actually, there was a he

0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:35.520
<v Speaker 2>used to say, market baby, Market, that was this thing.

0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:37.600
<v Speaker 2>And what that means is they say take it easy

0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:40.880
<v Speaker 2>because he didn't want to see you like pushing an effort.

0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:43.480
<v Speaker 2>But then he'd also say I can't see it, and

0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.360
<v Speaker 2>you'd be like, wait, I'm marketing, but you can't see it.

0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.080
<v Speaker 2>And that's a very but it's a very childish reaction

0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:50.920
<v Speaker 2>when suddenly you wake up one day and you realize

0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:54.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm starting to get this. I'm starting to get this

0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:00.800
<v Speaker 2>to all of this and how this actually what makes

0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:04.000
<v Speaker 2>things different, that they're not all the same. You don't

0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:06.680
<v Speaker 2>do everything the same. And so you see that with

0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.160
<v Speaker 2>great actors obviously, you see that with great musicians, and

0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:11.280
<v Speaker 2>you see that with great answers. So that was those

0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:13.439
<v Speaker 2>were turning points that you know, take time and I'm

0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:16.439
<v Speaker 2>still learning, still learning. I see Nisha like that way.

0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:18.679
<v Speaker 2>I remember seeing a video of him like with Diane

0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.880
<v Speaker 2>Sawyer and she got him to sit down and watch

0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:25.760
<v Speaker 2>a video of himself with her and he's watching this

0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:28.880
<v Speaker 2>video that you know, by any standard, is just off

0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:34.319
<v Speaker 2>the charts so good, and midway through he's like, I'm

0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:36.959
<v Speaker 2>pushing so hard, but I didn't need to do all

0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.120
<v Speaker 2>of that, you know, just because it's and that's when

0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:41.080
<v Speaker 2>you realize, oh my god, this is so much more

0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:46.360
<v Speaker 2>than being impressive. It's actually it's lifelong kind of struggle

0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:49.920
<v Speaker 2>to be organic. Actually, that's like it's like the meda

0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:53.840
<v Speaker 2>goal is like to be connected organically, not in a

0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:57.360
<v Speaker 2>forced way, as a as a technician or as a

0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:01.280
<v Speaker 2>So those are like those are life life goals. Yeah,

0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:02.120
<v Speaker 2>how do you get to that?

0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:25.920
<v Speaker 1>Our guest Damian Wetzel was a dancer with the New

0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:29.240
<v Speaker 1>York City Ballet for twenty five years. During that time,

0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:34.520
<v Speaker 1>he performed in countless productions, including Swan Lake and Copelia.

0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:38.160
<v Speaker 1>It is so special to experience the ballet as a viewer,

0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:39.720
<v Speaker 1>But what was.

0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:41.400
<v Speaker 3>It like for a performer.

0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:47.040
<v Speaker 1>Going to the ballet as a patron, as a person

0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:47.600
<v Speaker 1>who's gone.

0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:50.560
<v Speaker 3>It's a very big deal. It's an event.

0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:53.600
<v Speaker 1>You're going to the ballet, you dress, the theater is

0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:57.640
<v Speaker 1>so beautiful, the chandeliers, the lights, the whole thing. The

0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:01.760
<v Speaker 1>expectation that then came as you sit and then you

0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:04.840
<v Speaker 1>know the theatore goes dark and the curtain comes up

0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:08.520
<v Speaker 1>from your side of it. What does I feel like

0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:10.840
<v Speaker 1>when you're like, okay, we're about you, Because even though

0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:13.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, you know, you have, these letters are big.

0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.320
<v Speaker 2>So there's so many different ways I could answer that,

0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:19.760
<v Speaker 2>because I have so many different feelings about it. I mean,

0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.160
<v Speaker 2>and it really is. It depends on the context of

0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:26.680
<v Speaker 2>what's going to be danced where it is. I heard

0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:31.000
<v Speaker 2>Wynton Marsalis give a version of kind of a masterclass

0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.680
<v Speaker 2>meets philosophy lesson earlier this this fall with it. He

0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:37.640
<v Speaker 2>runs Jazz at Lincoln Center and he runs Julliard Jazz

0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:41.880
<v Speaker 2>and he was asking what are you thinking about before

0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:45.720
<v Speaker 2>you play? And he got some answers that were technically good,

0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:50.240
<v Speaker 2>and then one guy said, well the context of it?

0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:53.440
<v Speaker 2>Where am I? Who are these people? What am I?

0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:55.840
<v Speaker 2>And he was like, that's that's what you're thinking about

0:15:56.440 --> 0:16:00.360
<v Speaker 2>this actually, So to me the answer is like, wow, director,

0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:04.160
<v Speaker 2>I always think about that. I loved like, if I'm

0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:07.520
<v Speaker 2>making something, or if there's an opportunity to seamlessly transition

0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:10.720
<v Speaker 2>from the audience is just there there. You're doing what

0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:13.160
<v Speaker 2>you're doing. I'm doing what I'm doing, and then suddenly

0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:15.720
<v Speaker 2>you're in it. I love that. And I saw that

0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:18.560
<v Speaker 2>Nick Heidner do that in a production to National Theater

0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:21.160
<v Speaker 2>years ago. With the music and the intermission, suddenly they

0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:23.560
<v Speaker 2>were back in the scene, and it's like it just

0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:28.880
<v Speaker 2>blurs the line between life and part And I love that. Jerry,

0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:31.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, is the master frankly, I mean, he's you know,

0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:36.120
<v Speaker 2>the theatrical genius, and he could do it every which way,

0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:38.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, kind of the you hear the music first

0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:40.560
<v Speaker 2>and you don't even know what's happening, and then suddenly

0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:45.120
<v Speaker 2>you're in the scene or his great masterpiece dances are gathering,

0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:49.240
<v Speaker 2>which is all chopin piano music for an hour ten dancers'

0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:50.600
<v Speaker 2>So the kind of thing we used to do, we

0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:52.320
<v Speaker 2>used to do at the end of the night often,

0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:55.280
<v Speaker 2>so the theater backstage would be very empty, just ten

0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:59.080
<v Speaker 2>of us, everybody else gone home. And it starts with

0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:03.120
<v Speaker 2>the audience is in. So I'll set the stage like

0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:07.240
<v Speaker 2>you were talking. So you come back from intermission, you

0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:08.919
<v Speaker 2>know this is you know, if you know what you know?

0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:11.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, okay, just an hour long. I'm about to

0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:14.920
<v Speaker 2>sit you know, it's a serious commitment. I'm here. Pianist

0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:16.879
<v Speaker 2>comes out on the side. You can see them and

0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:19.600
<v Speaker 2>they're kind of in a subtle light. But curtains down,

0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:24.040
<v Speaker 2>lights go down, the curtain goes up, empty stage, blue

0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:30.159
<v Speaker 2>sight in the back, and it's crazy wow, because so

0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:34.359
<v Speaker 2>the first thing that happens is downstage, downstage left. My

0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:38.600
<v Speaker 2>roll waits for the curtain to finish, takes a couple

0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:42.399
<v Speaker 2>of steps out and stops, and all you feel is

0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.199
<v Speaker 2>sort of the cool air coming from the audience and

0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:48.479
<v Speaker 2>just the silence, and then you take a few steps

0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:51.000
<v Speaker 2>and the pianist catches you on the fourth step with

0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:56.199
<v Speaker 2>chopin talk about like the anticipation of many things. Like

0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:59.280
<v Speaker 2>it's just like for the dancer, it's like, Wow, what

0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:03.919
<v Speaker 2>a frommendous privilege to get to kind of be in

0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:06.680
<v Speaker 2>a space and the whole point of the space. Jerry,

0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:08.560
<v Speaker 2>when even coach it would say, this is a place

0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:10.240
<v Speaker 2>that you were. You haven't been in a long time.

0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:12.399
<v Speaker 2>But you come back up and you stand there and

0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:14.359
<v Speaker 2>you kind of take it in and it's all about

0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:20.719
<v Speaker 2>kind of remembering what you once did. And that's how

0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:23.800
<v Speaker 2>it starts. And by the end, everybody's on stage and

0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:27.040
<v Speaker 2>that same character my part goes and touches the touches

0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:29.280
<v Speaker 2>the stage with your palm and just kind of lets

0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:30.879
<v Speaker 2>it sit there for a second, kind of touching the

0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:36.879
<v Speaker 2>stone of memory and history, pure intimacy, and you know,

0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:40.200
<v Speaker 2>and the audience is there to see it. They happened

0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:42.440
<v Speaker 2>to be there to see it. Happened to be there.

0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.880
<v Speaker 1>Audience remember to say we happen to be there.

0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:50.359
<v Speaker 2>It's a very different thing then, like you know, a

0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:52.320
<v Speaker 2>show piece of some kind where you come out to

0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:57.199
<v Speaker 2>entertain if you will. And you know, we're doing a

0:18:57.240 --> 0:19:00.240
<v Speaker 2>thing right now at Juilliard New Dances. It's called every

0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:03.000
<v Speaker 2>December and they are all new dances, so it's like

0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:06.320
<v Speaker 2>all every every dancer is in it. So first, second, third,

0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:08.439
<v Speaker 2>fourth year their college students, so every you know, they

0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:10.240
<v Speaker 2>each get a choreographer. Then we're going to break that

0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:12.120
<v Speaker 2>up a little probably in the future, and a few

0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:16.560
<v Speaker 2>more things. But but it's it's kind of a creative

0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:19.919
<v Speaker 2>collaboration moment. The musicians are often involved in great ways.

0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:23.240
<v Speaker 2>And I was looking at the pieces and I was

0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:25.639
<v Speaker 2>looking at one of them and I was remembering a

0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:28.440
<v Speaker 2>phrase and I don't know the attribution. I could look

0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:32.000
<v Speaker 2>it up, but it was dance that aspires to the

0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:35.560
<v Speaker 2>form of music. And I was like, okay, so music.

0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:38.800
<v Speaker 2>We don't demand much of music. We listen and in

0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:42.360
<v Speaker 2>certain like you know, especially in classical music, there's no narrative,

0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:45.080
<v Speaker 2>unless there's an unless there's a song being told. But

0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:47.760
<v Speaker 2>it's music. And now if you study, you learn, oh

0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:49.720
<v Speaker 2>this was actually based on a poem, and you can

0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:53.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, do some things. But dance it aspires to

0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:56.320
<v Speaker 2>the form of music. Wow. What it's like a conceptual

0:19:56.440 --> 0:20:00.600
<v Speaker 2>kind of thing where it's literally it's a symphony orchestra

0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:02.359
<v Speaker 2>or it's a solo and it's just there for the

0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:05.679
<v Speaker 2>pureness of that dance. This is a milestone getting to

0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:07.919
<v Speaker 2>that place where I was like for me, like okay,

0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:09.879
<v Speaker 2>I get it. And then it was from the world

0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:12.600
<v Speaker 2>of Robins or Valanchine to getting out in the world

0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:16.760
<v Speaker 2>and seeing Paul Taylor, Immerse Cunningham, you know, Twila Tharp

0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:20.080
<v Speaker 2>bringing in kind of more pop dance in a funny way, mixing,

0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:24.000
<v Speaker 2>rubbing up against stuff. Just like music, the forms of

0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:26.760
<v Speaker 2>music which have always influenced each other and been built

0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:29.919
<v Speaker 2>off of everything from you know, folk tunes that became

0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:33.959
<v Speaker 2>symphonies that became you know Servinsky. Early Servinsky is all

0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.199
<v Speaker 2>about you know, Russian folks folk music. And I was

0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:40.560
<v Speaker 2>just planning a program for next fall, the great great

0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:43.399
<v Speaker 2>artist Barbara Hannigan, and it's all based on folk folks

0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:46.639
<v Speaker 2>songs really have different composers who addressed folk music in

0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:49.840
<v Speaker 2>different ways. And then we're going to add in some dance,

0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:51.760
<v Speaker 2>and we'll add in this and it's like the thrilling

0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:53.680
<v Speaker 2>kind of build of it is the thing. And then

0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:57.399
<v Speaker 2>how exciting it is to kind of have that. It's

0:20:57.520 --> 0:20:59.360
<v Speaker 2>it's just growing and I'm learning. I was just learning

0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:01.480
<v Speaker 2>from her, Like the students will all be a part

0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:03.520
<v Speaker 2>of this. They'll like get their minds blown as they

0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:05.359
<v Speaker 2>go along, and they have to work really hard to

0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:07.760
<v Speaker 2>do it because you still have to do it. I mean,

0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:09.600
<v Speaker 2>it's like where Winton is Also, He's like, okay, now

0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:11.680
<v Speaker 2>we talked about context, but you got to play right.

0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:15.760
<v Speaker 1>I was like, it's do you feel like you've mentioned

0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:19.560
<v Speaker 1>a lot of incredible choreographers who are just you know,

0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:23.159
<v Speaker 1>when you know you're like, oh, okay, I'm about to

0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:23.720
<v Speaker 1>sit with.

0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.000
<v Speaker 3>Twila and Twilt is now going to talk about what

0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:28.119
<v Speaker 3>we are going to do. We're just sitting with Jerome

0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:29.359
<v Speaker 3>or sitting is.

0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:32.760
<v Speaker 1>There not necessarily a favorite, but how do you like,

0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:36.240
<v Speaker 1>where does that play in you to be able to

0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:39.440
<v Speaker 1>show to I know this is because twilet is very

0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:42.160
<v Speaker 1>specific when you see a Twilet Flower production.

0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:44.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, so I think it's again in a way, it's

0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:49.120
<v Speaker 2>like you you take in the context of whatever it is. Differently,

0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:53.400
<v Speaker 2>so Jerry was different because I was I was a kid.

0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:56.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean, he came to watch me in class at

0:21:56.440 --> 0:21:59.280
<v Speaker 2>SAB on a Saturday morning because of mutual friends that

0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:02.080
<v Speaker 2>you should look at this kid and basically gave me

0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:07.040
<v Speaker 2>some corrections and then told me don't go to ABT.

0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:09.959
<v Speaker 2>You should come to City Ballet really because I was like,

0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:12.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't know where I was going. Because because Barishnikov

0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:15.240
<v Speaker 2>was running American Valley Theater, which was like whoa Misha,

0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:19.879
<v Speaker 2>but a very different repertory, much more like nineteenth century classics,

0:22:20.040 --> 0:22:24.320
<v Speaker 2>Amisia was revolutionizing it in truth, but Jerry Robbins was

0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:27.040
<v Speaker 2>sitting at City Valley making art, and I was like,

0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:29.479
<v Speaker 2>so that was the validation I needed to say that's

0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:31.800
<v Speaker 2>where I'm going, even though I was already total cult

0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:33.439
<v Speaker 2>for Valancie and I was like, I was at that

0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:35.840
<v Speaker 2>theater every night just learning, and I was seeing things

0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:38.440
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't believe. Actually, I was like, what is this.

0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:40.760
<v Speaker 2>I remember there's a valley called episodes. I was literally like,

0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:44.400
<v Speaker 2>what this is unreal? Because I grew up watching Swan Lake.

0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:45.760
<v Speaker 2>You know, I saw that too, and I was like

0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:47.960
<v Speaker 2>and that. I was like, there is so much more.

0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:51.320
<v Speaker 2>So when I think about your question, I'm like, it's

0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:54.320
<v Speaker 2>a huge garden. You know, you're walking through and you

0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:56.239
<v Speaker 2>make choices, you say, I want to work with this one,

0:22:56.320 --> 0:22:58.480
<v Speaker 2>that one. You know, you explore different things. There are

0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:01.560
<v Speaker 2>lots of different ways people do. Twilo was the first

0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:04.400
<v Speaker 2>and maybe the only person I ever really worked with

0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:08.080
<v Speaker 2>who used different music all the time. She would choreograph

0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:11.639
<v Speaker 2>something to Randy Newman that ended up being set to

0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:15.680
<v Speaker 2>Bob Telson, you know, and it would be like, what's happening.

0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:17.200
<v Speaker 3>On broad where she did that Billy Joel?

0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:18.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, moving out?

0:23:18.640 --> 0:23:21.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, right, and you're like, wait, wait, Twilette Tharp and

0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:23.040
<v Speaker 1>Billy Joel have this like.

0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:27.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean, she was always opened for she did so much.

0:23:27.760 --> 0:23:30.280
<v Speaker 2>She had great the Beach Boys Ballet and all these

0:23:30.280 --> 0:23:32.680
<v Speaker 2>things that she did that were kind of rooted in

0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:35.119
<v Speaker 2>popular so to speak, but then she would flip it

0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:37.719
<v Speaker 2>on its side. I mean, I think the last thing

0:23:37.840 --> 0:23:39.320
<v Speaker 2>she made that I was in was a ballet to

0:23:39.359 --> 0:23:41.960
<v Speaker 2>Beethoven at City Ballet, and we worked with all kinds

0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:44.760
<v Speaker 2>of music getting getting there. I remember she put on

0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:48.080
<v Speaker 2>craft Verk, I remember kraft Work. It was German kind

0:23:48.119 --> 0:23:51.800
<v Speaker 2>of you know, very like, had all this kind of

0:23:51.880 --> 0:23:54.159
<v Speaker 2>vibe to it, and that ended up being, you know,

0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:57.560
<v Speaker 2>Beethoven seventh. And there are those who would say that's really,

0:23:57.880 --> 0:24:00.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, not how I would do it. The music

0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:02.560
<v Speaker 2>is first, and we're going to do that. But what

0:24:02.600 --> 0:24:06.800
<v Speaker 2>I learned was a respect for possibility, different ways to

0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:08.840
<v Speaker 2>do things. And then and the.

0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:11.840
<v Speaker 3>Alway open to it.

0:24:11.920 --> 0:24:14.520
<v Speaker 2>I was, I was, I was ready to be it

0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:17.760
<v Speaker 2>was ready. I was ready for that in one lane

0:24:18.160 --> 0:24:24.160
<v Speaker 2>way like I love I love magic, like like literally

0:24:24.200 --> 0:24:27.600
<v Speaker 2>like magic. Yeah, I mean there's a I had a

0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:29.280
<v Speaker 2>I had a series of Kennedy's Center for a bunch

0:24:29.280 --> 0:24:31.639
<v Speaker 2>of years called Demo, and Demo was all about bringing

0:24:31.640 --> 0:24:35.679
<v Speaker 2>together great people musicians, dancers primarily, but occasionally a clown

0:24:35.720 --> 0:24:38.000
<v Speaker 2>Bill Erwin was in for a while, and we would

0:24:38.000 --> 0:24:40.280
<v Speaker 2>put together a show basically, and it was called demo

0:24:40.320 --> 0:24:42.159
<v Speaker 2>because it really was and sometimes it was great and

0:24:42.200 --> 0:24:46.439
<v Speaker 2>sometimes it was like okay, you know. Uh. But one

0:24:46.480 --> 0:24:47.960
<v Speaker 2>of the groups I worked with had a friend in

0:24:48.040 --> 0:24:51.439
<v Speaker 2>DC who was a magician, and the magician would come

0:24:51.440 --> 0:24:53.080
<v Speaker 2>to the show and then afterwards we'd go out for

0:24:53.080 --> 0:24:55.240
<v Speaker 2>dinner and he would then he would do stuff and

0:24:55.320 --> 0:24:57.520
<v Speaker 2>I just remember never I'd never been that close to

0:24:57.560 --> 0:24:59.960
<v Speaker 2>it before, and the things that would go on were

0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:02.320
<v Speaker 2>like so, I just that was a mind thing. And

0:25:02.359 --> 0:25:04.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm still I've been ruminating for a couple of years

0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:06.320
<v Speaker 2>now on doing a show about magic, like trying to

0:25:06.320 --> 0:25:10.480
<v Speaker 2>figure out how to bring that feeling of involuntary reactions

0:25:10.520 --> 0:25:13.760
<v Speaker 2>almost like you just can't believe you know, the composer

0:25:13.800 --> 0:25:16.080
<v Speaker 2>Caroline Shaw is someone I work with a lot on

0:25:16.119 --> 0:25:18.000
<v Speaker 2>a door and I think she's just a genius. And

0:25:18.119 --> 0:25:20.560
<v Speaker 2>I remember we were we were together one night when

0:25:21.359 --> 0:25:24.480
<v Speaker 2>this guy did this stuff, and it's like we had

0:25:24.480 --> 0:25:26.880
<v Speaker 2>a card and it ended up in the salt or something,

0:25:27.080 --> 0:25:29.040
<v Speaker 2>and we still talk about it. So your card is

0:25:29.080 --> 0:25:32.679
<v Speaker 2>in the salt, and it's like, wow, it's unbelievable, and

0:25:32.720 --> 0:25:36.960
<v Speaker 2>you want that feeling of possibility, like how is that possible?

0:25:37.440 --> 0:25:40.080
<v Speaker 2>Is kind of and so what a great place to be.

0:25:40.400 --> 0:25:41.280
<v Speaker 2>So I aspire to that.

0:25:51.359 --> 0:25:54.880
<v Speaker 1>It's two thousand. From my understanding of the story, you're

0:25:54.920 --> 0:25:58.680
<v Speaker 1>in DC. I believe you're sitting next to Giffer, to

0:25:58.800 --> 0:26:03.760
<v Speaker 1>Gabby Gabby Giffer. Now, Harvard has never accepted somebody to

0:26:03.840 --> 0:26:04.840
<v Speaker 1>get an mp.

0:26:05.200 --> 0:26:08.520
<v Speaker 3>A degree without having a bachelor's.

0:26:08.560 --> 0:26:13.480
<v Speaker 1>Now, arguably you've earned a bachelor degree for the twenty

0:26:13.520 --> 0:26:15.840
<v Speaker 1>plus years of your life that no one earns in

0:26:15.920 --> 0:26:17.919
<v Speaker 1>four years going And.

0:26:17.880 --> 0:26:19.960
<v Speaker 2>That was the case. I made that.

0:26:21.720 --> 0:26:27.840
<v Speaker 1>And you get accepted to this program, which then brings

0:26:27.880 --> 0:26:30.600
<v Speaker 1>you to eventually getting the position of being the president

0:26:30.680 --> 0:26:34.760
<v Speaker 1>of what is arguably, if not definitively the premier.

0:26:34.960 --> 0:26:39.760
<v Speaker 3>Art school, Juilliard in New York. I think one. But

0:26:39.840 --> 0:26:42.320
<v Speaker 3>my silly question is, is it sort of like.

0:26:42.760 --> 0:26:45.440
<v Speaker 1>Fame for like, you know, like I always dream when

0:26:45.440 --> 0:26:47.680
<v Speaker 1>I saw fame in nineteen eighty two, because.

0:26:47.760 --> 0:26:50.560
<v Speaker 2>Me too, that idea of level spilling out onto this

0:26:53.280 --> 0:26:54.040
<v Speaker 2>performing art.

0:26:54.160 --> 0:26:54.400
<v Speaker 3>Yes.

0:26:55.119 --> 0:26:59.400
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, two thousand and four, I'm at City Ballet.

0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:05.439
<v Speaker 2>It's going fine. I've started doing I mean between like

0:27:05.600 --> 0:27:08.439
<v Speaker 2>getting to be a principal dancer, and then I've started

0:27:08.440 --> 0:27:11.760
<v Speaker 2>branching and doing different things. I'm running groups, I'm choreographing

0:27:11.800 --> 0:27:14.960
<v Speaker 2>for City Valley and other places. I'm directing things. Still

0:27:15.160 --> 0:27:17.240
<v Speaker 2>primarily a dancer, but I'm at all these other things.

0:27:17.600 --> 0:27:20.640
<v Speaker 2>I start doing stuff where I don't know. I wish

0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:22.159
<v Speaker 2>I could really think about it hard. But there was

0:27:22.200 --> 0:27:25.320
<v Speaker 2>a moment when I realized that I liked and I

0:27:25.359 --> 0:27:29.959
<v Speaker 2>had an affinity for speaking in public about art stuff.

0:27:30.080 --> 0:27:33.240
<v Speaker 2>Basically first dance, like I would do a lecture demonstration

0:27:33.280 --> 0:27:36.119
<v Speaker 2>and I would very easily talk about dance, and that

0:27:36.160 --> 0:27:39.560
<v Speaker 2>translated to being, you know, talking about the arts in general.

0:27:40.240 --> 0:27:42.919
<v Speaker 2>And at one point I got asked to be on

0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:46.119
<v Speaker 2>a group of kind of a forty under forty of

0:27:46.320 --> 0:27:48.840
<v Speaker 2>US and China relations, and I was sort of the

0:27:48.920 --> 0:27:51.320
<v Speaker 2>arts guy, and there was a Chinese arts guy, and

0:27:51.359 --> 0:27:54.720
<v Speaker 2>there was an American business and an American military and so

0:27:54.760 --> 0:27:57.080
<v Speaker 2>on and so forth and government. And that's where I

0:27:57.080 --> 0:27:59.920
<v Speaker 2>met Gabby. So I had built to that place where

0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:03.600
<v Speaker 2>I was sort of involved in things beyond my primary

0:28:03.920 --> 0:28:05.600
<v Speaker 2>and I loved it and I was interested in it.

0:28:05.680 --> 0:28:08.080
<v Speaker 2>It goes back to, you know, my childhood and my

0:28:08.160 --> 0:28:11.639
<v Speaker 2>dad being an international law and foreign policy professor, and

0:28:12.040 --> 0:28:13.399
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's like in my head that this is

0:28:13.440 --> 0:28:16.800
<v Speaker 2>a global thing, thinking about how the art world played

0:28:16.800 --> 0:28:18.640
<v Speaker 2>in the Cold War, and I would always think about

0:28:18.640 --> 0:28:21.360
<v Speaker 2>that and talk about things like that, looking to make

0:28:21.400 --> 0:28:24.119
<v Speaker 2>the arts more a part of society. I thought, you know,

0:28:24.160 --> 0:28:26.760
<v Speaker 2>this is making it more than simply a performance. What's

0:28:26.800 --> 0:28:28.800
<v Speaker 2>the rest. So when we talked a little bit about

0:28:28.800 --> 0:28:31.359
<v Speaker 2>the eighties that was brewing, it was in there like

0:28:31.440 --> 0:28:34.320
<v Speaker 2>this is a bigger conversation and I like to talk.

0:28:34.680 --> 0:28:38.720
<v Speaker 2>It turns out, so National Committee has this forty forty thing.

0:28:40.480 --> 0:28:45.040
<v Speaker 2>It's an interesting group, and it was actually in Arizona

0:28:45.720 --> 0:28:48.600
<v Speaker 2>and Gabby and I get on the bus like going

0:28:48.640 --> 0:28:50.560
<v Speaker 2>to dinner, you know, like from the hotel. You're a

0:28:50.560 --> 0:28:53.920
<v Speaker 2>wady with the dinner thing, you know, and She starts

0:28:53.960 --> 0:28:55.360
<v Speaker 2>asking me about what I'm going to do when I

0:28:55.360 --> 0:28:58.600
<v Speaker 2>stopped dancing, which is not close, but it's maybe not far.

0:28:58.640 --> 0:29:01.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm in my mid thirties that point, and who knows,

0:29:01.520 --> 0:29:03.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, an accident can happen anytime. You don't know, yah,

0:29:03.720 --> 0:29:05.640
<v Speaker 2>And I say, gosh, you know, I'm doing this and

0:29:05.680 --> 0:29:08.200
<v Speaker 2>this and this. I'm dancing, I'm directing. I'm probably going

0:29:08.280 --> 0:29:10.440
<v Speaker 2>to stay in the field because you know, I didn't

0:29:10.480 --> 0:29:13.840
<v Speaker 2>go to college, and I don't see you know, I

0:29:13.880 --> 0:29:15.800
<v Speaker 2>don't have some great ballet fortune here. It's not like

0:29:15.840 --> 0:29:17.240
<v Speaker 2>I can just stop and take four years off and

0:29:17.240 --> 0:29:17.800
<v Speaker 2>go to college.

0:29:17.840 --> 0:29:18.000
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:29:18.120 --> 0:29:20.000
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't seem that way to me. So I see

0:29:20.000 --> 0:29:22.160
<v Speaker 2>people do it now, and I'm just hats off. I'm like, wow,

0:29:22.200 --> 0:29:23.080
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how to do this.

0:29:23.080 --> 0:29:24.080
<v Speaker 3>Stop the Yeah.

0:29:24.120 --> 0:29:27.280
<v Speaker 2>No. They managed to juggle in different ways, and she said, well,

0:29:27.280 --> 0:29:29.440
<v Speaker 2>you know what, there's this program at the Kennedy School

0:29:29.560 --> 0:29:32.360
<v Speaker 2>at Harvard. It's a mid career program and it's a

0:29:32.360 --> 0:29:34.640
<v Speaker 2>master's program. And she said, I think you should do that,

0:29:35.160 --> 0:29:36.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, And I was like, well, how am I

0:29:36.040 --> 0:29:37.360
<v Speaker 2>gonna do that? She said, I'm telling you, it's a

0:29:37.360 --> 0:29:40.920
<v Speaker 2>mid career program. You should persevere you should try. So

0:29:40.960 --> 0:29:43.320
<v Speaker 2>I file it away. I go home and I look

0:29:43.360 --> 0:29:46.440
<v Speaker 2>online and I look at the requirements and nowhere does

0:29:46.480 --> 0:29:48.880
<v Speaker 2>it say you need a bachelor's degree. I'm looking and

0:29:48.880 --> 0:29:52.960
<v Speaker 2>then like, it actually doesn't say it. So I call

0:29:53.080 --> 0:29:55.840
<v Speaker 2>up the Kennedy School and I get somebody at admissions

0:29:56.040 --> 0:30:00.840
<v Speaker 2>and I asked them and that somebody says, oh, well

0:30:00.880 --> 0:30:06.160
<v Speaker 2>it should say that, you know. And I'm like, oops, okay,

0:30:06.640 --> 0:30:10.840
<v Speaker 2>so okay, and I remember going outside, We're at our

0:30:10.840 --> 0:30:13.160
<v Speaker 2>house in Connecticut other than I and I say, well,

0:30:13.200 --> 0:30:14.600
<v Speaker 2>there goes that you know or something like that, and

0:30:14.680 --> 0:30:16.280
<v Speaker 2>she's like, who did you talk to? And I'm like,

0:30:16.320 --> 0:30:18.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. Somebody had admissions. She said maybe you

0:30:18.160 --> 0:30:20.440
<v Speaker 2>should try a little harder, you know, And sure enough,

0:30:20.480 --> 0:30:22.680
<v Speaker 2>I try a little harder. I end up going up there.

0:30:23.400 --> 0:30:26.880
<v Speaker 2>I meet a mutual contact of a friend who basically

0:30:26.920 --> 0:30:29.360
<v Speaker 2>says a version of well did you go to high

0:30:29.360 --> 0:30:34.640
<v Speaker 2>school a bit? Because the truth is I graduated super

0:30:34.640 --> 0:30:37.400
<v Speaker 2>early from Hollywood High School. It's because I was dancing

0:30:37.400 --> 0:30:39.040
<v Speaker 2>professionally in LA at that point, and I got all

0:30:39.040 --> 0:30:40.840
<v Speaker 2>the credits and I just couldn't wait to get going.

0:30:41.160 --> 0:30:43.520
<v Speaker 2>So I did at least a bit I said, and

0:30:43.560 --> 0:30:45.520
<v Speaker 2>she's like, oh my god, I guess you should come

0:30:45.560 --> 0:30:48.280
<v Speaker 2>up here. And so I did, and I met the

0:30:48.320 --> 0:30:50.400
<v Speaker 2>head of the program, and then I met the dean

0:30:50.640 --> 0:30:52.800
<v Speaker 2>of the school, and the dean of the school an

0:30:52.840 --> 0:30:56.440
<v Speaker 2>amazing man named Joe Joseph McCarthy, No, no choke be

0:30:56.520 --> 0:31:00.240
<v Speaker 2>his name is. Joe McCarthy said to me, I like

0:31:00.280 --> 0:31:02.600
<v Speaker 2>to think that Harvard's the kind of place that understands

0:31:02.640 --> 0:31:06.560
<v Speaker 2>this situation. And boy do I think about that all

0:31:06.600 --> 0:31:09.440
<v Speaker 2>the time in my current role. I'm like aspire to that.

0:31:09.880 --> 0:31:13.880
<v Speaker 2>And he said, Okay, So here's the deal. Apply take

0:31:13.920 --> 0:31:18.800
<v Speaker 2>your GRE tests, get your recommendations, and if you are

0:31:18.800 --> 0:31:21.040
<v Speaker 2>not you know, if you if you are able to

0:31:21.080 --> 0:31:23.480
<v Speaker 2>do the work, we're gonna we're gonna make this. We're

0:31:23.480 --> 0:31:26.120
<v Speaker 2>going to figure this out. Because no one's been at

0:31:26.120 --> 0:31:28.040
<v Speaker 2>school in a long time anyway, everybody's been out for

0:31:28.080 --> 0:31:30.600
<v Speaker 2>at least a dozen years because it's a mid career program,

0:31:30.800 --> 0:31:34.560
<v Speaker 2>and let's just see. So I came back, I got

0:31:34.560 --> 0:31:37.880
<v Speaker 2>a tutor for the GRES, did a ton of practice tests,

0:31:38.320 --> 0:31:42.480
<v Speaker 2>did it. It went fine, great, recommendations worked. You know,

0:31:42.600 --> 0:31:44.520
<v Speaker 2>I just said, I think I can do this, studied

0:31:44.520 --> 0:31:49.320
<v Speaker 2>like crazy, and one day I was on the airport

0:31:49.640 --> 0:31:51.480
<v Speaker 2>going to Texas to do a gig and I got

0:31:51.480 --> 0:31:53.440
<v Speaker 2>an email and it said you're in, You're going to

0:31:53.520 --> 0:31:55.880
<v Speaker 2>You're going to Harvard. And I was like, are you

0:31:56.000 --> 0:31:58.120
<v Speaker 2>kidding me? And I remember hither and I were laughing

0:31:58.160 --> 0:32:00.920
<v Speaker 2>so hard because we were living kind of in another century,

0:32:00.960 --> 0:32:02.480
<v Speaker 2>I guess, because we kept thinking it would come in

0:32:02.520 --> 0:32:05.160
<v Speaker 2>the mailbox. And I got an email, you know, and it.

0:32:05.160 --> 0:32:07.640
<v Speaker 3>Was like, I got an yest century are.

0:32:12.760 --> 0:32:17.120
<v Speaker 2>Rejected, just an email in some you know, tragic little

0:32:17.120 --> 0:32:21.640
<v Speaker 2>restaurant in LaGuardia. I'm like, oh my god. So and

0:32:21.640 --> 0:32:23.239
<v Speaker 2>and I talked to the dean again, and I make

0:32:23.320 --> 0:32:25.760
<v Speaker 2>some plans, and I take some economics courses over the

0:32:25.760 --> 0:32:27.880
<v Speaker 2>summer to get ready. The next thing, you know, I'm

0:32:27.880 --> 0:32:30.640
<v Speaker 2>there and I get this master's in Public Administration, which

0:32:30.680 --> 0:32:33.560
<v Speaker 2>is essentially a leadership degree, but it's a to me.

0:32:33.640 --> 0:32:35.920
<v Speaker 2>It was like the chance of a lifetime to go

0:32:35.960 --> 0:32:39.040
<v Speaker 2>to school. And so I took classes at the business school,

0:32:39.080 --> 0:32:41.000
<v Speaker 2>at the law school, and I was all over the place.

0:32:41.040 --> 0:32:43.480
<v Speaker 2>I was taking you know, seminars, and I did all

0:32:43.480 --> 0:32:46.960
<v Speaker 2>these different types of things, rhetoric with David Gergan. I

0:32:47.000 --> 0:32:49.120
<v Speaker 2>remember I took a course on state craft with the

0:32:49.120 --> 0:32:52.000
<v Speaker 2>most incredible professor who was a priest who I actually

0:32:52.080 --> 0:32:53.800
<v Speaker 2>knew as a kid because he worked with my father

0:32:54.320 --> 0:32:58.280
<v Speaker 2>on international law things. Again, it was like so crazy,

0:32:58.280 --> 0:33:01.600
<v Speaker 2>and back and back in Cambridge, Boston, you know, running

0:33:01.640 --> 0:33:03.520
<v Speaker 2>back and forth to Boston Valley to stay in shape

0:33:03.520 --> 0:33:07.160
<v Speaker 2>because I'm still dancing. So I'm in Boston staying in shape,

0:33:07.240 --> 0:33:09.600
<v Speaker 2>come back anyway. It all adds up that by the

0:33:09.600 --> 0:33:12.320
<v Speaker 2>time I actually retire that night, when I'm forty one,

0:33:12.880 --> 0:33:20.360
<v Speaker 2>I've kind of got a bunch of different lives going.

0:33:36.840 --> 0:33:39.720
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for pulling up a chair today on table for two.

0:33:39.800 --> 0:33:42.719
<v Speaker 1>While Damien had an incredible career as a ballet dancer,

0:33:42.960 --> 0:33:46.240
<v Speaker 1>he now has another important role. He has served as

0:33:46.360 --> 0:33:50.640
<v Speaker 1>president of the Juilliard School in New York City since

0:33:50.760 --> 0:33:52.920
<v Speaker 1>July twenty eighteen.

0:33:55.160 --> 0:34:00.000
<v Speaker 3>You've had this huge, vast career here in New York

0:34:00.320 --> 0:34:03.360
<v Speaker 3>and you find yourself now running Juilliard.

0:34:03.440 --> 0:34:05.200
<v Speaker 2>So we'd all added up in a funny way. So

0:34:05.280 --> 0:34:07.440
<v Speaker 2>that just to cut fast from two thousand and eight

0:34:07.520 --> 0:34:10.560
<v Speaker 2>to twenty eighteen, when I become the president, I am

0:34:10.600 --> 0:34:14.399
<v Speaker 2>doing I'm leading three or four lives, I'm directing, I'm

0:34:14.440 --> 0:34:17.920
<v Speaker 2>working on national arts education, programs, really dreaming the big

0:34:18.000 --> 0:34:20.280
<v Speaker 2>dream that every child should have arts in their schools

0:34:20.280 --> 0:34:21.920
<v Speaker 2>and how do we get there? And doing work on

0:34:21.960 --> 0:34:24.600
<v Speaker 2>that that I'm super proud of and super inspiring and

0:34:24.680 --> 0:34:28.960
<v Speaker 2>humbling to get to do. I'm working as at the

0:34:29.000 --> 0:34:32.320
<v Speaker 2>Aspen Institute. I created an arts policy program there that

0:34:32.440 --> 0:34:36.200
<v Speaker 2>was all about art and society, very focused on education,

0:34:36.320 --> 0:34:40.719
<v Speaker 2>but also diplomacy, economics, other things. And when I get

0:34:40.760 --> 0:34:43.160
<v Speaker 2>a call about Juilliard, there's this moment when I go

0:34:43.680 --> 0:34:46.279
<v Speaker 2>and I really am happy. I will say, doing all

0:34:46.320 --> 0:34:49.400
<v Speaker 2>these different things, it is like, what a gift to

0:34:49.480 --> 0:34:52.440
<v Speaker 2>never get to you never say no. I remember George

0:34:52.440 --> 0:34:54.879
<v Speaker 2>Stevens Junior asked me to start directing, you know, dance

0:34:54.920 --> 0:34:57.880
<v Speaker 2>when they had a Kennedy Center honor who is a dancer?

0:34:57.960 --> 0:35:00.799
<v Speaker 2>I would direct those. I never had to say no.

0:35:00.960 --> 0:35:04.319
<v Speaker 2>I was like, yes, call me, say yes. I did

0:35:04.600 --> 0:35:07.000
<v Speaker 2>things for the World Science Festival honor. I to honor

0:35:07.040 --> 0:35:10.840
<v Speaker 2>Stephen Hawking with a performance attributing art and science. So

0:35:10.880 --> 0:35:12.600
<v Speaker 2>when I got when I got this call, I was

0:35:12.600 --> 0:35:15.279
<v Speaker 2>in the habit of saying I do not want one job.

0:35:16.360 --> 0:35:18.200
<v Speaker 2>But then I thought about what Juilliard was and I

0:35:18.239 --> 0:35:20.200
<v Speaker 2>was like, it is all of it. It is the

0:35:20.320 --> 0:35:22.799
<v Speaker 2>education piece, It is the performance piece. It is the

0:35:22.880 --> 0:35:26.840
<v Speaker 2>international global impact. It is the future of the arts.

0:35:26.960 --> 0:35:29.560
<v Speaker 2>It is economics, it is what is going to create

0:35:29.600 --> 0:35:32.960
<v Speaker 2>the next centers, the next programs, all the teachers that

0:35:33.040 --> 0:35:36.200
<v Speaker 2>come out of there who educate the next generation. And

0:35:36.280 --> 0:35:40.120
<v Speaker 2>I was like, okay, I it is a dream dream

0:35:40.200 --> 0:35:43.480
<v Speaker 2>to try to enter that world. And back at Juilliard.

0:35:43.640 --> 0:35:46.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, do you feel like when you're looking

0:35:46.560 --> 0:35:50.239
<v Speaker 1>at the student now at Juilliard and everything's changed in

0:35:50.280 --> 0:35:52.239
<v Speaker 1>the world, you know, between social.

0:35:51.920 --> 0:35:53.279
<v Speaker 2>Media, attact and all that.

0:35:53.360 --> 0:35:57.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, has the student changed? Is there work ethic different?

0:35:57.239 --> 0:35:59.840
<v Speaker 3>Are they jaded in a different way? Are they motivated

0:35:59.840 --> 0:36:00.680
<v Speaker 3>in a different way?

0:36:00.760 --> 0:36:05.799
<v Speaker 2>It seems like it's a so yes, everything changes generationally,

0:36:05.800 --> 0:36:08.280
<v Speaker 2>it changes. We all know that from from our lives.

0:36:08.320 --> 0:36:10.200
<v Speaker 2>You know, we know that people and you know kind

0:36:10.200 --> 0:36:12.040
<v Speaker 2>of and then we so we know it this way

0:36:12.080 --> 0:36:13.880
<v Speaker 2>first looking up and then suddenly we look down and

0:36:13.880 --> 0:36:15.719
<v Speaker 2>we're like, oh, they're different, right right, you know, they

0:36:15.760 --> 0:36:17.520
<v Speaker 2>don't think that we're not thinking exactly the same way. Yeah,

0:36:18.080 --> 0:36:21.360
<v Speaker 2>But you know the gift of getting to work, obviously

0:36:21.520 --> 0:36:25.719
<v Speaker 2>with successive generations is recognizing that and being a part

0:36:25.719 --> 0:36:30.440
<v Speaker 2>of that that story right to my mind. You know,

0:36:30.480 --> 0:36:35.920
<v Speaker 2>it's gotten infinitely more complex in different ways, the things

0:36:35.920 --> 0:36:40.520
<v Speaker 2>that take up your time. But conversely, you can see everything,

0:36:41.800 --> 0:36:45.160
<v Speaker 2>all of the inspiration you want, it's at yours, it's

0:36:45.200 --> 0:36:47.640
<v Speaker 2>in your pocket. It's like, oh my god, look at this,

0:36:47.680 --> 0:36:50.359
<v Speaker 2>and look at this and look at this. Conversely, maybe

0:36:50.400 --> 0:36:52.919
<v Speaker 2>you're not getting quite the same amount of the need

0:36:52.960 --> 0:36:56.080
<v Speaker 2>for live experience, which is actually in so many ways

0:36:56.120 --> 0:36:59.760
<v Speaker 2>the most that's live and living are related as works.

0:37:00.040 --> 0:37:03.319
<v Speaker 2>So you know, are we living this? Yes, and yet

0:37:03.320 --> 0:37:07.040
<v Speaker 2>the rigor of it is still the same. You're still

0:37:07.080 --> 0:37:08.959
<v Speaker 2>showing up as a dancer to the bar, You're still

0:37:08.960 --> 0:37:11.359
<v Speaker 2>going to your lessons as a musician, You're still doing

0:37:11.360 --> 0:37:13.680
<v Speaker 2>your skills. You're still doing you know, a build of

0:37:13.719 --> 0:37:18.680
<v Speaker 2>repertory found but where it's going or actors, the same thing.

0:37:18.760 --> 0:37:21.040
<v Speaker 2>It's all good. The foundation of diction and all the

0:37:21.080 --> 0:37:23.880
<v Speaker 2>things that they teach at Juilliard like nowhere else in

0:37:23.880 --> 0:37:26.080
<v Speaker 2>the world. It's like it's I can't believe when I

0:37:26.120 --> 0:37:27.480
<v Speaker 2>go and I get to watch and I see the

0:37:27.560 --> 0:37:35.759
<v Speaker 2>progression over time that remains. But the destinations are enormously

0:37:36.080 --> 0:37:38.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, more varied. There's more of a sense of

0:37:39.840 --> 0:37:41.839
<v Speaker 2>and it's I believe in this so much. There are

0:37:41.920 --> 0:37:44.000
<v Speaker 2>so many ways to get to heaven. There are so

0:37:44.120 --> 0:37:49.520
<v Speaker 2>many destinations that are definitions of success. Whereas you know,

0:37:49.680 --> 0:37:54.040
<v Speaker 2>in in many generations pass there was a narrower set

0:37:54.080 --> 0:37:57.040
<v Speaker 2>of outcomes that you would, you know, you might embrace.

0:37:57.440 --> 0:37:59.440
<v Speaker 2>You might be going to an orchestra. You might be

0:37:59.480 --> 0:38:01.360
<v Speaker 2>a soloist, you might be a you might be a

0:38:01.400 --> 0:38:04.600
<v Speaker 2>film composer, you might be someone who works independently as

0:38:04.719 --> 0:38:06.799
<v Speaker 2>with your own ensemble. You might I mean, it's just

0:38:06.840 --> 0:38:09.719
<v Speaker 2>it's the varying things are so much And what I

0:38:09.760 --> 0:38:13.000
<v Speaker 2>love so much about Juilliard is that that edge effect

0:38:13.560 --> 0:38:16.360
<v Speaker 2>is there are so many edges you have your you know,

0:38:16.400 --> 0:38:20.279
<v Speaker 2>within music, there's an opera, there's jazz, there's composition, there's

0:38:20.280 --> 0:38:24.400
<v Speaker 2>baroque music, there's orchestral news, there's chamber music. There's the composers.

0:38:24.440 --> 0:38:27.480
<v Speaker 2>There's and then they're next to the dancers, who are

0:38:27.520 --> 0:38:30.880
<v Speaker 2>a variety of outcomes, whether they're going into you know,

0:38:30.920 --> 0:38:33.720
<v Speaker 2>foundational modern dance or into ballet or going to Europe

0:38:33.760 --> 0:38:35.799
<v Speaker 2>to be in a you know, a contemporary company, or

0:38:35.840 --> 0:38:38.080
<v Speaker 2>to be choreographers or to be directors of which so

0:38:38.080 --> 0:38:40.520
<v Speaker 2>many Juilliard graduates and dance or the directors of the

0:38:40.560 --> 0:38:44.080
<v Speaker 2>companies all kinds. And then in drama you know that

0:38:44.280 --> 0:38:46.880
<v Speaker 2>that field, you know, from the theater base, which is

0:38:46.880 --> 0:38:50.000
<v Speaker 2>what Juilliard's base was for theater. Look at the film,

0:38:50.080 --> 0:38:51.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, you look at you know, from the beginning,

0:38:52.480 --> 0:38:55.319
<v Speaker 2>you know, from like Christopher Reeves and Robin Williams and

0:38:55.760 --> 0:38:59.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, to Viola Davis, to Jessica Chastain to and

0:38:59.400 --> 0:39:02.920
<v Speaker 2>right down to day. The outcomes in film are enormous,

0:39:02.960 --> 0:39:06.000
<v Speaker 2>But then all the other ways that actors are actually

0:39:06.320 --> 0:39:10.520
<v Speaker 2>functioning today, and we just think about, you know, this

0:39:10.640 --> 0:39:14.839
<v Speaker 2>is this is the ecosystem that we are actually not

0:39:14.920 --> 0:39:19.120
<v Speaker 2>just partaking in, but going to continue creating. And that

0:39:19.239 --> 0:39:21.560
<v Speaker 2>to me was the thing. I was like, Wow, this

0:39:21.680 --> 0:39:25.880
<v Speaker 2>is you know, music, dance, and drama together, not just

0:39:25.960 --> 0:39:30.440
<v Speaker 2>performers but makers. Not just makers and performers, but potential

0:39:30.480 --> 0:39:36.080
<v Speaker 2>teachers at Lincoln Center surrounded by one set of outcomes

0:39:36.400 --> 0:39:39.000
<v Speaker 2>which we send people to all those houses. You know,

0:39:39.040 --> 0:39:41.080
<v Speaker 2>if we have a all call Julliard alumni on Lincoln

0:39:41.120 --> 0:39:42.920
<v Speaker 2>Center Plaza, you know, all come out and you know,

0:39:43.560 --> 0:39:46.360
<v Speaker 2>saying it'll be quite something, you know, but then it

0:39:46.440 --> 0:39:49.960
<v Speaker 2>just keeps going, not just in America, globally around the world,

0:39:50.600 --> 0:39:52.319
<v Speaker 2>and so what we put in is what we get out,

0:39:53.000 --> 0:39:55.799
<v Speaker 2>and to me, that is that foundation. And then the

0:39:55.840 --> 0:39:58.120
<v Speaker 2>adventure of it all. What is next? What are the

0:39:58.360 --> 0:40:00.719
<v Speaker 2>what are the collaborative things that we can nurture now?

0:40:01.120 --> 0:40:03.800
<v Speaker 2>What can they try now? That will be the next step.

0:40:04.719 --> 0:40:07.480
<v Speaker 2>We think about the generation's past, and again it's oscillation.

0:40:07.880 --> 0:40:09.960
<v Speaker 2>There are times when institutions kind of go like this

0:40:10.040 --> 0:40:12.560
<v Speaker 2>and hang on to things. They say, we're going to solidify,

0:40:12.719 --> 0:40:14.840
<v Speaker 2>and then there's times when they push out, you know,

0:40:14.880 --> 0:40:17.040
<v Speaker 2>and they make room. I heard bil Ty Jones say

0:40:17.080 --> 0:40:19.759
<v Speaker 2>that in a room at Juilliard my first year. He

0:40:19.880 --> 0:40:22.440
<v Speaker 2>was talking about, you know, the message in one of

0:40:22.440 --> 0:40:24.880
<v Speaker 2>the pieces, the piece they were staging on Juilliard, and

0:40:24.920 --> 0:40:26.799
<v Speaker 2>he talked to the dancers and I have to say,

0:40:26.840 --> 0:40:28.640
<v Speaker 2>I hadn't thought about this in a while, but man,

0:40:28.680 --> 0:40:31.840
<v Speaker 2>it's mystical. They're surrounding him and you know what Bilty

0:40:31.880 --> 0:40:35.080
<v Speaker 2>looks like. It's just like it's a magnificent human being.

0:40:35.600 --> 0:40:38.480
<v Speaker 2>And he said what we were saying, and he put

0:40:38.520 --> 0:40:41.319
<v Speaker 2>his elbows out is make room or make room. And

0:40:41.400 --> 0:40:50.800
<v Speaker 2>I was like, wow, what a message.

0:40:53.360 --> 0:40:55.320
<v Speaker 1>One of the things that I find that's so effective

0:40:55.360 --> 0:40:58.880
<v Speaker 1>in leadership is if you've actually worked in the trenches,

0:40:59.160 --> 0:41:04.520
<v Speaker 1>if you worked in the you know, from being in

0:41:04.560 --> 0:41:08.319
<v Speaker 1>the costume department to dancing to being you know, it

0:41:08.360 --> 0:41:13.640
<v Speaker 1>doesn't feel like anyone sits in that chair who can

0:41:13.880 --> 0:41:17.879
<v Speaker 1>actually talk to your students and say, I know it,

0:41:18.160 --> 0:41:18.759
<v Speaker 1>I lived it.

0:41:18.880 --> 0:41:19.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah did it.

0:41:20.000 --> 0:41:23.279
<v Speaker 2>I mean the history of Juilliard like the history of

0:41:23.440 --> 0:41:26.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, kind of classical, but also art because in

0:41:26.719 --> 0:41:29.520
<v Speaker 2>Juilliard's not strictly classical. There is jazz, for instance. There

0:41:29.520 --> 0:41:33.040
<v Speaker 2>are contemporary forms both in dance and in drama. We

0:41:33.120 --> 0:41:35.480
<v Speaker 2>have composers in film. This is not you know, but

0:41:35.520 --> 0:41:38.960
<v Speaker 2>it is a it is a wide ambition, it's my point.

0:41:39.080 --> 0:41:41.399
<v Speaker 2>But all of it is relatively new. When we look

0:41:41.400 --> 0:41:43.719
<v Speaker 2>at the rest of the world, it's pretty new.

0:41:43.800 --> 0:41:44.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:41:44.160 --> 0:41:46.800
<v Speaker 2>So Jilliard starts in nineteen oh five in its first incarnation,

0:41:46.920 --> 0:41:51.480
<v Speaker 2>it's not even called Juilliard till nineteen twenty six, and

0:41:51.520 --> 0:41:54.960
<v Speaker 2>then it grows to add dance in nineteen years fifty one. Yeah,

0:41:54.960 --> 0:41:57.080
<v Speaker 2>we're going to be one hundred name so I get

0:41:57.080 --> 0:41:59.080
<v Speaker 2>another whack at a centennial. They did one in two

0:41:59.120 --> 0:42:03.520
<v Speaker 2>thousand and five, another one. We're gonna do another nineteen

0:42:03.600 --> 0:42:06.680
<v Speaker 2>fifty one, they add dance. Nineteen sixty nine, they had

0:42:06.760 --> 0:42:09.040
<v Speaker 2>drama when they moved to Lincoln Center to represent all

0:42:09.040 --> 0:42:11.400
<v Speaker 2>the art forms there because that's where are the educational

0:42:11.440 --> 0:42:13.520
<v Speaker 2>constituents that they had said, this is going to be everything,

0:42:14.320 --> 0:42:16.839
<v Speaker 2>and it's all in development. So when I look back

0:42:16.840 --> 0:42:19.319
<v Speaker 2>at the leaders of Juilliard from the beginning, this is

0:42:19.719 --> 0:42:24.040
<v Speaker 2>all revolution. It's all like here we go. America too,

0:42:24.080 --> 0:42:28.680
<v Speaker 2>will have a classical symphony of we will educate for it,

0:42:28.800 --> 0:42:32.960
<v Speaker 2>not just going to import. And then dance takes hold

0:42:33.000 --> 0:42:34.960
<v Speaker 2>and we think about the modern dance kind of revolution

0:42:35.080 --> 0:42:37.520
<v Speaker 2>starting with Graham. You know, company is going to be

0:42:37.600 --> 0:42:39.680
<v Speaker 2>They're going to have their one hundredth anniversary in twenty

0:42:39.680 --> 0:42:42.040
<v Speaker 2>twenty six two. That's going to be the Martha Graham Company.

0:42:42.040 --> 0:42:45.319
<v Speaker 2>It's all developing. So when like William Schumann was a

0:42:45.320 --> 0:42:47.320
<v Speaker 2>president for many years and then he became the president

0:42:47.320 --> 0:42:50.560
<v Speaker 2>of the first batch of Lincoln Center, actually first round,

0:42:50.600 --> 0:42:52.040
<v Speaker 2>he was the second, but he was really the first

0:42:52.120 --> 0:42:57.080
<v Speaker 2>practicing president. He's adding things in a way just like

0:42:57.600 --> 0:43:01.320
<v Speaker 2>New York is, just like America is post war. Post

0:43:01.320 --> 0:43:04.279
<v Speaker 2>war is like unbelievable. Look where we're sitting right now.

0:43:04.320 --> 0:43:06.120
<v Speaker 2>You were talking about Lincoln Center. I was thinking of

0:43:06.160 --> 0:43:09.719
<v Speaker 2>City Center, you know, on fifty fifth Street, which was

0:43:10.040 --> 0:43:13.040
<v Speaker 2>made by Mayor LaGuardia to be the people's house for dance,

0:43:13.080 --> 0:43:16.160
<v Speaker 2>where City Ballet was founded, for City Opera found, where

0:43:16.160 --> 0:43:18.880
<v Speaker 2>the musicals, where all of this kind of history is

0:43:19.000 --> 0:43:22.279
<v Speaker 2>just happening at that time. After it's a post war

0:43:22.320 --> 0:43:25.799
<v Speaker 2>boom of many kinds, and in New York and in

0:43:25.840 --> 0:43:28.719
<v Speaker 2>culture in America, you start seeing the investment in it.

0:43:28.840 --> 0:43:31.399
<v Speaker 2>You see like the Ford Foundation sponsoring not just City

0:43:31.480 --> 0:43:34.640
<v Speaker 2>Ballet and Soil American Ballet making an investment, but theater

0:43:35.200 --> 0:43:38.480
<v Speaker 2>and orchestras around the country. All of those theaters, you know,

0:43:38.560 --> 0:43:42.200
<v Speaker 2>the guth three and the one in Houston that I'm

0:43:42.239 --> 0:43:44.160
<v Speaker 2>losing my mind here, I can't remember. All of that

0:43:44.280 --> 0:43:47.960
<v Speaker 2>is post war energy that goes for decades. That leads

0:43:48.040 --> 0:43:50.200
<v Speaker 2>us to the place where we have a Lincoln Center,

0:43:50.640 --> 0:43:53.560
<v Speaker 2>because we're not there yet, we don't have our homage

0:43:53.600 --> 0:43:55.440
<v Speaker 2>to art in that way. And that leads to the

0:43:55.520 --> 0:43:59.000
<v Speaker 2>Kennedy Center, and then then we have an established thing,

0:43:59.000 --> 0:44:00.880
<v Speaker 2>and Julliard is a part of that every step of

0:44:00.920 --> 0:44:04.960
<v Speaker 2>the way, building and those leaders are adding and building. Yes,

0:44:05.200 --> 0:44:08.120
<v Speaker 2>and you know this is a. This is evolution, and

0:44:08.160 --> 0:44:10.760
<v Speaker 2>we continue and the project is not done. The project

0:44:10.800 --> 0:44:12.880
<v Speaker 2>continue what it's one.

0:44:12.719 --> 0:44:17.160
<v Speaker 1>A message has I don't think has anyone ever sat

0:44:17.239 --> 0:44:22.400
<v Speaker 1>in your seat, Julia with the history behind them, because

0:44:22.480 --> 0:44:24.640
<v Speaker 1>you one of the things that I find that's.

0:44:24.480 --> 0:44:38.760
<v Speaker 3>So effective in leadership and leadership on any level. Damian.

0:44:38.800 --> 0:44:40.560
<v Speaker 1>I couldn't think of a better person to sit in

0:44:40.600 --> 0:44:43.040
<v Speaker 1>the seat that you're sitting in. And I could also

0:44:43.320 --> 0:44:47.120
<v Speaker 1>want to say the journey of your life from a

0:44:47.160 --> 0:44:51.200
<v Speaker 1>little boy to the dance, to the choreographer to the

0:44:51.719 --> 0:44:54.719
<v Speaker 1>directing to be sitting here in the center of our

0:44:54.960 --> 0:44:58.280
<v Speaker 1>beloved city at such a vibrant time in your life

0:44:58.719 --> 0:45:01.840
<v Speaker 1>and you are how helping people find their voice, to

0:45:01.960 --> 0:45:04.440
<v Speaker 1>create more beauty and tell stories.

0:45:04.000 --> 0:45:07.359
<v Speaker 2>And oh, it's really kind of you. My goal here

0:45:07.400 --> 0:45:09.879
<v Speaker 2>is to create next steps. I want this to be

0:45:10.280 --> 0:45:14.120
<v Speaker 2>ever more creative and also ever more affordable. We're making

0:45:14.160 --> 0:45:16.759
<v Speaker 2>it happen. We have our drama MFA went tuition free

0:45:16.800 --> 0:45:19.000
<v Speaker 2>this last fall with the help of some wonderful people.

0:45:19.480 --> 0:45:19.719
<v Speaker 3>We have.

0:45:19.880 --> 0:45:21.799
<v Speaker 2>You know, over a third of our students, or just

0:45:21.840 --> 0:45:24.719
<v Speaker 2>at a third right now, are tuition free, and some

0:45:24.760 --> 0:45:26.960
<v Speaker 2>of our programs for young people, we have our own

0:45:27.000 --> 0:45:30.239
<v Speaker 2>preparatory division that we're expanding out into communities to try

0:45:30.280 --> 0:45:33.000
<v Speaker 2>to make sure that every child has that opportunity to

0:45:33.040 --> 0:45:35.799
<v Speaker 2>experience art so they're not in a way, they get

0:45:35.800 --> 0:45:37.680
<v Speaker 2>the benefit of it and whether they, you know, end

0:45:37.760 --> 0:45:40.160
<v Speaker 2>up on a stage or just for life, for the

0:45:40.239 --> 0:45:42.680
<v Speaker 2>skills that come with an artistic kind of practice. I

0:45:42.719 --> 0:45:46.400
<v Speaker 2>think foundationally for America, for the world, that the foundation

0:45:46.480 --> 0:45:49.799
<v Speaker 2>of understanding is culture. And I appreciate you giving me

0:45:49.800 --> 0:45:52.759
<v Speaker 2>the chance to have this conversation all this time.

0:45:53.200 --> 0:46:04.400
<v Speaker 3>Thank you for your time, thank you for pulling up

0:46:04.400 --> 0:46:04.759
<v Speaker 3>for share.

0:46:05.360 --> 0:46:09.400
<v Speaker 4>I love our lunches and never forget the romance of

0:46:09.440 --> 0:46:12.640
<v Speaker 4>a meal. If you enjoy the show, please tell a

0:46:12.680 --> 0:46:16.720
<v Speaker 4>friend and rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Table

0:46:16.719 --> 0:46:19.680
<v Speaker 4>for Two with Bruce Bosi is produced by iHeartRadio seven

0:46:19.719 --> 0:46:23.760
<v Speaker 4>three seven Park and Airmail. Our executive producers are Bruce

0:46:23.800 --> 0:46:28.000
<v Speaker 4>Bosi and Nathan King. Our supervising producer is Dylan Fagan.

0:46:28.320 --> 0:46:31.560
<v Speaker 4>Our editors are Vincent to Johnny and Cas B.

0:46:31.719 --> 0:46:32.200
<v Speaker 3>Bias.

0:46:32.760 --> 0:46:36.200
<v Speaker 1>Table for two is researched and written by Jack Sullivan.

0:46:36.560 --> 0:46:40.600
<v Speaker 1>Our sound engineers are Meil B. Klein, Jess Krainich, Evan Taylor,

0:46:40.800 --> 0:46:44.879
<v Speaker 1>and Jesse Funk. Our music supervisor is Randall. Poster Our

0:46:44.880 --> 0:46:47.960
<v Speaker 1>talent booking is done by Jane Sarkin. Table for two's

0:46:48.000 --> 0:46:52.200
<v Speaker 1>social media manager is Gracie Wiener. Special thanks to Amy Sugarman,

0:46:52.600 --> 0:46:57.719
<v Speaker 1>Uni Scherer, Kevin Yvane, Bobby Bauer, Alison Kanter Graber. For

0:46:57.840 --> 0:47:02.800
<v Speaker 1>more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,

0:47:03.280 --> 0:47:06.240
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