1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, thanks for pulling up a chair today on 2 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: Table for Two. We're not in Hollywood. We're actually just 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,319 Speaker 1: a little south of Lincoln Center. And if you didn't 4 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: know this, Lincoln Center is my favorite place on earth. 5 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 2: What's going to be a good thing to eat while 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 2: being interviewed by Bruce. 7 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: Yes, Today we're having lunch with a gentleman who was 8 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: the principal dancer for the New York City Ballet from 9 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five to two thousand and eight. Do you 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: understand the magnitude of that He's one of the greatest 11 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: living ballet dancers ever and he is currently the president 12 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: of the most prestigious arts school in New York, Juilliard. 13 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 2: What if I hadn't tried dancing? 14 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 3: Great? 15 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: What if I don't know, I was very argumentative. I 16 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 2: guess I'd be a lawyer or something. 17 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 3: You know, we're having lunch with Damian Wetzel. 18 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: So sit back, grab a glass of rose, enjoy this 19 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: beautiful afternoon in New York City with me and Damian Wetzel. 20 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: I'm Bruce Bosi and this is my podcast Table for Two. 21 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: We're having lunch with I didn't realize the length of 22 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: time that you were at New York City Ballet, and 23 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: that you were a principal dancer dancing your ass off 24 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty five. 25 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 3: It's two thousand and eight. 26 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. I moved here in eighty four to go to 27 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 2: the school American Valley, which was City Valley School and 28 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 2: kind of in an early full circle that used to 29 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,639 Speaker 2: be in Juilliard. It was like the school was housed 30 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 2: in Juilliard. So when people ask did you go to Juilliard, 31 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 2: I'm like, kind of because SAB was on the third fourth, Yeah, 32 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 2: and it was its own like school within a school, 33 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 2: but we shared a cafeteria and it was like I 34 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 2: was around all the musicians and actors and dancers that 35 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 2: were part of Juilliard. And so I was eighty four 36 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 2: and then I joined City Ballet, you know, May eighty five. 37 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 2: Ballet was sort of one thing among many. Definitely not 38 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: the intention like this is going to be a dancer, No, no, no. 39 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 2: I think it was literally that I was bouncing off 40 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 2: the walls and there were some choices to be made 41 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: about how to spend time, and that seemed like a 42 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 2: culturally kind of exciting way to maybe try. 43 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 3: Yea, I know, the amount of physical work. 44 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: I don't know it because I've never done it, but 45 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: I appreciate it and I feel like that going to 46 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: school and then studying ballet, like you guys are athletes 47 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: in a way that nobody else was an athlete, and 48 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: our culture doesn't even actually categorize you as athletes. 49 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 2: I feel so. I remember once being an eighth grade 50 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 2: science class, and I don't know how this happened, but 51 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 2: the science teacher was talking about sports and put up 52 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 2: a picture on the projector of Edward Vallella so Vera. 53 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 2: Villella was one of the greatest male dancers America has 54 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 2: ever produced. He and Jackdams were like their initial principal 55 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 2: dancers for balancing at City Ballet. So this is my 56 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 2: first kind of exposure. In some ways, I knew who 57 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 2: Eddie Vellella was. He's definitely an idol, you know, along 58 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 2: with like Barishnikoff and other people, but Eddie's a little 59 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 2: bit earlier generation. And there was a Life magazine cover 60 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:31,519 Speaker 2: of Eddie Valella flying through the air, and I think, 61 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 2: so again, is it true or is it my memory? 62 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 2: But the headline was is this the world's greatest athlete? 63 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 2: And my science class was like full who are like, yeah, 64 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 2: this is what you do bingo. It was like new 65 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: respect starts to creep in and it was something else. 66 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 3: Is that science teacher too. 67 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, missus Pollock? Yeah, I think that was her name. Yeah, yeah, 68 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 2: that's all. Yeah. 69 00:03:54,480 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: You also came into as young adults now dancing. You 70 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: were dancing in the mid eighties, which became a very 71 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: dark period in the arts because many people were dying. 72 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 2: People are dying. 73 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 3: What was that experience. 74 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: How did that affect I mean, I'm sure there were dancers, 75 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: so you were dancing with that would have been. 76 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, some of the best we lost. We lost people 77 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 2: in City Ballet. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful guys. By the time 78 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 2: I'm in, you know, in my late teens, and this 79 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 2: is the AIDS epidemic is going on. It's again through 80 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 2: the lens of all the artists. Are you know, disproportionately 81 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 2: being affected by this. When you walk into State Theater, 82 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 2: which we shared with the New York City Opera, which 83 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 2: doesn't exist anymore, and the notices day after day after 84 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 2: day of the people, you know, the memorials, and it 85 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,559 Speaker 2: was just like you know, and then the art starts 86 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 2: getting made. Then you've got Larry Kramer, Tony and the 87 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 2: things that are starting to happen that reflect right work 88 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 2: and the movement an AIDS walk and I remember Heather 89 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 2: other created the team, so the AIDS watch. It was like, 90 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 2: let's have a team that walks, and you know, so 91 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 2: City Ballet had a team and we would you know, 92 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 2: and it was like a sense of community fighting the 93 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 2: futility of it. 94 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, So Damien, when did you know I've now stepped 95 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 1: into this room? When did you know, like, okay, I'm 96 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 1: actually now a principal dance room. 97 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 3: What was it a ballet? Was the evolution of being like, 98 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 3: oh I'm here. 99 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 2: You know, there was a a couple of things that 100 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 2: kind of were signals. What was simply the ability to 101 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 2: do it, like, you know, because to get a chance 102 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 2: and be able to succeed, it's not a guarantee. And 103 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 2: so getting some key parts Ruby's was one of them. 104 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 2: I was still in the Court of cass and I 105 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 2: got one show out of the five that we're going 106 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 2: and I got my one and you know, getting being 107 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: able to deliver it. Okay, So there's that. I remember 108 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 2: thinking like what is going to be necessary? 109 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 3: Now? 110 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 2: What do I need to you know, and I thought, 111 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 2: you need to be indispensable and what does that look like? 112 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 2: And it was like, you've got to be a go 113 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 2: to person, got to be a person who can partner 114 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 2: as well as dance. Well, not enough just to jump high. 115 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 2: You're not going to get the real parts if you 116 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 2: can't also do that. You're going to need to be 117 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 2: able to learn fast in you know, if there's you, 118 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 2: you know, some people learn. Everybody learns differently, right, multiple 119 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 2: intelligences all the way. And for me it was like, 120 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 2: what is it? How fast can I learn a ballet? 121 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 2: And so I thought, okay, that's being And so in 122 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 2: the end what happens is, I'm twenty one of the 123 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 2: great dancers of all time at City Ballet is injured 124 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 2: and I suddenly they start throwing shit at me. I'm 125 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 2: been getting to do part after part after part after 126 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 2: part in one season. So this is nineteen eighty eight, 127 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: so I'm twenty one, and between November November I'm in 128 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 2: the corps January. I mean, I made a soloist and 129 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 2: may I'm made a principle. Wow, because I've done a 130 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 2: huge swath of repertory and I've managed it, and I'm 131 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 2: in dispenser at least then at least right then, and 132 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 2: then you know, then you have other phases happened, But 133 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 2: there was like that was the thing for me when 134 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 2: I knew that. You know, basically, you could call me 135 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 2: at six point thirty for an eight o'clock show, say 136 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 2: we need you to do this, and I was going 137 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 2: to be. 138 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 3: Okay, and you could do it. 139 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 2: I would be okay. Yeah, it may not be perfect, 140 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 2: but I was going to be okay, you know, And 141 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 2: I loved that. I loved that sense of emergency too, 142 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 2: which is it's like a drug. 143 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, like, oh yeah, you're home. 144 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 2: I love it. Sitting at a restaurant on Columbus Avenue, 145 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 2: somebody wears Damien. Oh we saw him sitting in Lingay. 146 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 2: That happened. I call at the restaurant, Yeah, it's great. 147 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 3: And then next thing, you know, you're. 148 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 2: Good, getting a makeup and go yeah. 149 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 3: I mean. 150 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 2: The thing that is though a lot of that is 151 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,559 Speaker 2: the other things. The reason like I could learn fast 152 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 2: was because I'd studied music to some degree. It fed 153 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 2: in I was a kid, you know, New England Conservatory 154 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 2: on Saturday mornings before I was at ballet class. I 155 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 2: was doing that so I had a musical education of 156 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 2: some sort that I could read a score, I could 157 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 2: do things like that that really helped, you know, I 158 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 2: had and then the work i'd done, Like so when 159 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 2: I was at SAV School American Ballet, it's like the company. Okay, 160 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 2: so SAV is the school of the company. I would 161 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 2: take a ten thirty class, a twelve thirty class, and 162 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 2: then sometimes a five thirty class. In between the twelve 163 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 2: thirty and the five thirty, I would go to the 164 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 2: public library and I'd watch films and I just watched 165 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 2: videos as much as I could. I had a ritual. 166 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 2: You know, I had no real money, but I was okay, 167 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 2: I just enough and I would I would go and 168 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 2: i'd watch the video of the people that the things. 169 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 2: So I was like studying and trying to learn. I 170 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 2: loved it. It was so great. Loved it. Yeah, I 171 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 2: could not get enough. Couldn't get enough. But that was 172 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 2: part of it. Was like recognizing that there's more to 173 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 2: it than just what goes on, you know in the 174 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 2: studio or you know, I joined a gym to be 175 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 2: able to lift or whatever, but you know, and I 176 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 2: was listening to music and just and also just trying 177 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 2: to live going to the clubs. I remember going to area. 178 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,719 Speaker 2: I mean I just thought, go to an area back then, 179 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,079 Speaker 2: you probably yeah. I mean it was hard to get 180 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 2: in at first, and then you know, you figured it out. 181 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 2: Go to Palladium, going to places that like opened your 182 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 2: mind to New York, the New yorkness of it, all, 183 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 2: the specialness. Go to the opera for the first times 184 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 2: at the Metropolitan Opera, learning how to sneak into City Ballet, 185 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 2: to like get in, knowing the ushers. 186 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 3: You know. 187 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 2: Security was different then. I mean, I don't know, it's 188 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,199 Speaker 2: like timing. I was like able to like bluff my 189 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 2: way in, so I saw everything. I remember going to 190 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 2: Carnegie Hall for the first time and seeing like almost 191 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 2: a fight break out over music, and I remember that 192 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 2: really impressed me. It was like, because the great conductor 193 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 2: Ricardo Mouti was conducting something and that's the as the 194 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 2: as the piece ended, I guess. 195 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 3: I don't remember. 196 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 2: I guess it was the middle of the concert, somebody 197 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,719 Speaker 2: screamed boo for Mooty and somebody else said, dare you. 198 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 2: I was just like, wow, this is crazy here at 199 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 2: Carnegie Hall. I never seen it again since, but you 200 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 2: never know. These things make an impression. Yeah, the passion. 201 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 2: I think key moments, Like you asked about that when 202 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 2: you note things the first time, I like I kind 203 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 2: of appreciated that complexity is not necessarily what you think. 204 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 2: It is, Like the simple things can be the most complex. 205 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 2: It's like you read like drawing a perfect circle is 206 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 2: like the hardest thing. You know, it was like, but 207 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 2: look looks really easy. But like the the cord, the 208 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 2: ability to walk on stage, forget about the steps, just 209 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 2: walking when you realize that as a as you know, 210 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 2: whenever I was seventeen eighteen, you know I'm going to 211 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 2: walk out there, and you suddenly start to question that 212 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 2: and you're like start to really kind of go inside 213 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 2: and say, well, what is it? Where's my how? And 214 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 2: you realize how those simple things are actually the hardest, 215 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 2: and then finally realizing as a performer that the whole point, 216 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 2: the whole point, is to connect with the audience, and 217 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 2: that's a very complex thing, very simple and complex. Like 218 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 2: Jerry Robbins was the one who was like always like 219 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 2: his ideal state he would talk about many of his 220 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 2: ballets was that you do not even never consider the audience. 221 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 2: They should be like observers who happen upon and they 222 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 2: get to see this world. Don't sell it, yeah, don't 223 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 2: like you know, look, you know sell you know, unless 224 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 2: that's the part to do it. But then when you 225 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 2: start to kind of take that apart a little bit, 226 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 2: it's like, so I'm I'm never going to actually forget them, 227 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 2: so I'm actually acting like I'm not recognized. So it's 228 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 2: like doubly kind of false in a way, which is 229 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 2: that it's so hard. It's so hard, you know. So 230 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 2: that's like when I got to that place where there 231 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 2: was something else. I remember with Robin's like the first 232 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 2: time I recognized that what he was doing in many 233 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 2: of his dances was this a completely different type of 234 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 2: movement than I'd ever tried. Actually, there was a he 235 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 2: used to say, market baby, Market, that was this thing. 236 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 2: And what that means is they say take it easy 237 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 2: because he didn't want to see you like pushing an effort. 238 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 2: But then he'd also say I can't see it, and 239 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 2: you'd be like, wait, I'm marketing, but you can't see it. 240 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 2: And that's a very but it's a very childish reaction 241 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 2: when suddenly you wake up one day and you realize 242 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 2: I'm starting to get this. I'm starting to get this 243 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 2: to all of this and how this actually what makes 244 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 2: things different, that they're not all the same. You don't 245 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 2: do everything the same. And so you see that with 246 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 2: great actors obviously, you see that with great musicians, and 247 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 2: you see that with great answers. So that was those 248 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,439 Speaker 2: were turning points that you know, take time and I'm 249 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,439 Speaker 2: still learning, still learning. I see Nisha like that way. 250 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 2: I remember seeing a video of him like with Diane 251 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 2: Sawyer and she got him to sit down and watch 252 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 2: a video of himself with her and he's watching this 253 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 2: video that you know, by any standard, is just off 254 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 2: the charts so good, and midway through he's like, I'm 255 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,959 Speaker 2: pushing so hard, but I didn't need to do all 256 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 2: of that, you know, just because it's and that's when 257 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 2: you realize, oh my god, this is so much more 258 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 2: than being impressive. It's actually it's lifelong kind of struggle 259 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 2: to be organic. Actually, that's like it's like the meda 260 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 2: goal is like to be connected organically, not in a 261 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 2: forced way, as a as a technician or as a 262 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 2: So those are like those are life life goals. Yeah, 263 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 2: how do you get to that? 264 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: Our guest Damian Wetzel was a dancer with the New 265 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: York City Ballet for twenty five years. During that time, 266 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: he performed in countless productions, including Swan Lake and Copelia. 267 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: It is so special to experience the ballet as a viewer, 268 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: But what was. 269 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 3: It like for a performer. 270 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: Going to the ballet as a patron, as a person 271 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: who's gone. 272 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 3: It's a very big deal. It's an event. 273 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: You're going to the ballet, you dress, the theater is 274 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: so beautiful, the chandeliers, the lights, the whole thing. The 275 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: expectation that then came as you sit and then you 276 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: know the theatore goes dark and the curtain comes up 277 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: from your side of it. What does I feel like 278 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: when you're like, okay, we're about you, Because even though 279 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: you know, you know, you have, these letters are big. 280 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 2: So there's so many different ways I could answer that, 281 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 2: because I have so many different feelings about it. I mean, 282 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 2: and it really is. It depends on the context of 283 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 2: what's going to be danced where it is. I heard 284 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 2: Wynton Marsalis give a version of kind of a masterclass 285 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 2: meets philosophy lesson earlier this this fall with it. He 286 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 2: runs Jazz at Lincoln Center and he runs Julliard Jazz 287 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 2: and he was asking what are you thinking about before 288 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 2: you play? And he got some answers that were technically good, 289 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 2: and then one guy said, well the context of it? 290 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 2: Where am I? Who are these people? What am I? 291 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 2: And he was like, that's that's what you're thinking about 292 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 2: this actually, So to me the answer is like, wow, director, 293 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 2: I always think about that. I loved like, if I'm 294 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 2: making something, or if there's an opportunity to seamlessly transition 295 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 2: from the audience is just there there. You're doing what 296 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 2: you're doing. I'm doing what I'm doing, and then suddenly 297 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 2: you're in it. I love that. And I saw that 298 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 2: Nick Heidner do that in a production to National Theater 299 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 2: years ago. With the music and the intermission, suddenly they 300 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 2: were back in the scene, and it's like it just 301 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 2: blurs the line between life and part And I love that. Jerry, 302 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 2: you know, is the master frankly, I mean, he's you know, 303 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 2: the theatrical genius, and he could do it every which way, 304 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 2: you know, kind of the you hear the music first 305 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 2: and you don't even know what's happening, and then suddenly 306 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 2: you're in the scene or his great masterpiece dances are gathering, 307 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 2: which is all chopin piano music for an hour ten dancers' 308 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 2: So the kind of thing we used to do, we 309 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 2: used to do at the end of the night often, 310 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 2: so the theater backstage would be very empty, just ten 311 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 2: of us, everybody else gone home. And it starts with 312 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 2: the audience is in. So I'll set the stage like 313 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 2: you were talking. So you come back from intermission, you 314 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 2: know this is you know, if you know what you know? 315 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 2: You know, okay, just an hour long. I'm about to 316 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 2: sit you know, it's a serious commitment. I'm here. Pianist 317 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 2: comes out on the side. You can see them and 318 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 2: they're kind of in a subtle light. But curtains down, 319 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 2: lights go down, the curtain goes up, empty stage, blue 320 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 2: sight in the back, and it's crazy wow, because so 321 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 2: the first thing that happens is downstage, downstage left. My 322 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 2: roll waits for the curtain to finish, takes a couple 323 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 2: of steps out and stops, and all you feel is 324 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,199 Speaker 2: sort of the cool air coming from the audience and 325 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,479 Speaker 2: just the silence, and then you take a few steps 326 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 2: and the pianist catches you on the fourth step with 327 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:56,199 Speaker 2: chopin talk about like the anticipation of many things. Like 328 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 2: it's just like for the dancer, it's like, Wow, what 329 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,919 Speaker 2: a frommendous privilege to get to kind of be in 330 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 2: a space and the whole point of the space. Jerry, 331 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 2: when even coach it would say, this is a place 332 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 2: that you were. You haven't been in a long time. 333 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 2: But you come back up and you stand there and 334 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 2: you kind of take it in and it's all about 335 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:20,719 Speaker 2: kind of remembering what you once did. And that's how 336 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 2: it starts. And by the end, everybody's on stage and 337 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 2: that same character my part goes and touches the touches 338 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 2: the stage with your palm and just kind of lets 339 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 2: it sit there for a second, kind of touching the 340 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 2: stone of memory and history, pure intimacy, and you know, 341 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 2: and the audience is there to see it. They happened 342 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 2: to be there to see it. Happened to be there. 343 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,880 Speaker 1: Audience remember to say we happen to be there. 344 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 2: It's a very different thing then, like you know, a 345 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 2: show piece of some kind where you come out to 346 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:57,199 Speaker 2: entertain if you will. And you know, we're doing a 347 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 2: thing right now at Juilliard New Dances. It's called every 348 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 2: December and they are all new dances, so it's like 349 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 2: all every every dancer is in it. So first, second, third, 350 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 2: fourth year their college students, so every you know, they 351 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 2: each get a choreographer. Then we're going to break that 352 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 2: up a little probably in the future, and a few 353 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 2: more things. But but it's it's kind of a creative 354 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 2: collaboration moment. The musicians are often involved in great ways. 355 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 2: And I was looking at the pieces and I was 356 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 2: looking at one of them and I was remembering a 357 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 2: phrase and I don't know the attribution. I could look 358 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 2: it up, but it was dance that aspires to the 359 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 2: form of music. And I was like, okay, so music. 360 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 2: We don't demand much of music. We listen and in 361 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 2: certain like you know, especially in classical music, there's no narrative, 362 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 2: unless there's an unless there's a song being told. But 363 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 2: it's music. And now if you study, you learn, oh 364 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 2: this was actually based on a poem, and you can 365 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 2: you know, do some things. But dance it aspires to 366 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 2: the form of music. Wow. What it's like a conceptual 367 00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 2: kind of thing where it's literally it's a symphony orchestra 368 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 2: or it's a solo and it's just there for the 369 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,679 Speaker 2: pureness of that dance. This is a milestone getting to 370 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,919 Speaker 2: that place where I was like for me, like okay, 371 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 2: I get it. And then it was from the world 372 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 2: of Robins or Valanchine to getting out in the world 373 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 2: and seeing Paul Taylor, Immerse Cunningham, you know, Twila Tharp 374 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 2: bringing in kind of more pop dance in a funny way, mixing, 375 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 2: rubbing up against stuff. Just like music, the forms of 376 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 2: music which have always influenced each other and been built 377 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 2: off of everything from you know, folk tunes that became 378 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,959 Speaker 2: symphonies that became you know Servinsky. Early Servinsky is all 379 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 2: about you know, Russian folks folk music. And I was 380 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 2: just planning a program for next fall, the great great 381 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 2: artist Barbara Hannigan, and it's all based on folk folks 382 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 2: songs really have different composers who addressed folk music in 383 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 2: different ways. And then we're going to add in some dance, 384 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 2: and we'll add in this and it's like the thrilling 385 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 2: kind of build of it is the thing. And then 386 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 2: how exciting it is to kind of have that. It's 387 00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,360 Speaker 2: it's just growing and I'm learning. I was just learning 388 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 2: from her, Like the students will all be a part 389 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 2: of this. They'll like get their minds blown as they 390 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 2: go along, and they have to work really hard to 391 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 2: do it because you still have to do it. I mean, 392 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 2: it's like where Winton is Also, He's like, okay, now 393 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 2: we talked about context, but you got to play right. 394 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: I was like, it's do you feel like you've mentioned 395 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: a lot of incredible choreographers who are just you know, 396 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 1: when you know you're like, oh, okay, I'm about to 397 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: sit with. 398 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 3: Twila and Twilt is now going to talk about what 399 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 3: we are going to do. We're just sitting with Jerome 400 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 3: or sitting is. 401 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: There not necessarily a favorite, but how do you like, 402 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: where does that play in you to be able to 403 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 1: show to I know this is because twilet is very 404 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: specific when you see a Twilet Flower production. 405 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 2: Well, so I think it's again in a way, it's 406 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 2: like you you take in the context of whatever it is. Differently, 407 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 2: so Jerry was different because I was I was a kid. 408 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,360 Speaker 2: I mean, he came to watch me in class at 409 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 2: SAB on a Saturday morning because of mutual friends that 410 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 2: you should look at this kid and basically gave me 411 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 2: some corrections and then told me don't go to ABT. 412 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,959 Speaker 2: You should come to City Ballet really because I was like, 413 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 2: I don't know where I was going. Because because Barishnikov 414 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 2: was running American Valley Theater, which was like whoa Misha, 415 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 2: but a very different repertory, much more like nineteenth century classics, 416 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 2: Amisia was revolutionizing it in truth, but Jerry Robbins was 417 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 2: sitting at City Valley making art, and I was like, 418 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,479 Speaker 2: so that was the validation I needed to say that's 419 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 2: where I'm going, even though I was already total cult 420 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,439 Speaker 2: for Valancie and I was like, I was at that 421 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 2: theater every night just learning, and I was seeing things 422 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 2: I couldn't believe. Actually, I was like, what is this. 423 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 2: I remember there's a valley called episodes. I was literally like, 424 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,400 Speaker 2: what this is unreal? Because I grew up watching Swan Lake. 425 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 2: You know, I saw that too, and I was like 426 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 2: and that. I was like, there is so much more. 427 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 2: So when I think about your question, I'm like, it's 428 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 2: a huge garden. You know, you're walking through and you 429 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,239 Speaker 2: make choices, you say, I want to work with this one, 430 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 2: that one. You know, you explore different things. There are 431 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 2: lots of different ways people do. Twilo was the first 432 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 2: and maybe the only person I ever really worked with 433 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 2: who used different music all the time. She would choreograph 434 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 2: something to Randy Newman that ended up being set to 435 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 2: Bob Telson, you know, and it would be like, what's happening. 436 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 3: On broad where she did that Billy Joel? 437 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, moving out? 438 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, and you're like, wait, wait, Twilette Tharp and 439 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: Billy Joel have this like. 440 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 2: I mean, she was always opened for she did so much. 441 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 2: She had great the Beach Boys Ballet and all these 442 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 2: things that she did that were kind of rooted in 443 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 2: popular so to speak, but then she would flip it 444 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,719 Speaker 2: on its side. I mean, I think the last thing 445 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 2: she made that I was in was a ballet to 446 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 2: Beethoven at City Ballet, and we worked with all kinds 447 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 2: of music getting getting there. I remember she put on 448 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 2: craft Verk, I remember kraft Work. It was German kind 449 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 2: of you know, very like, had all this kind of 450 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 2: vibe to it, and that ended up being, you know, 451 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 2: Beethoven seventh. And there are those who would say that's really, 452 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 2: you know, not how I would do it. The music 453 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 2: is first, and we're going to do that. But what 454 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 2: I learned was a respect for possibility, different ways to 455 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 2: do things. And then and the. 456 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 3: Alway open to it. 457 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 2: I was, I was, I was ready to be it 458 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 2: was ready. I was ready for that in one lane 459 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 2: way like I love I love magic, like like literally 460 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 2: like magic. Yeah, I mean there's a I had a 461 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 2: I had a series of Kennedy's Center for a bunch 462 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 2: of years called Demo, and Demo was all about bringing 463 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,679 Speaker 2: together great people musicians, dancers primarily, but occasionally a clown 464 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 2: Bill Erwin was in for a while, and we would 465 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 2: put together a show basically, and it was called demo 466 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 2: because it really was and sometimes it was great and 467 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,439 Speaker 2: sometimes it was like okay, you know. Uh. But one 468 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 2: of the groups I worked with had a friend in 469 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 2: DC who was a magician, and the magician would come 470 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 2: to the show and then afterwards we'd go out for 471 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 2: dinner and he would then he would do stuff and 472 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 2: I just remember never I'd never been that close to 473 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 2: it before, and the things that would go on were 474 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 2: like so, I just that was a mind thing. And 475 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 2: I'm still I've been ruminating for a couple of years 476 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 2: now on doing a show about magic, like trying to 477 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 2: figure out how to bring that feeling of involuntary reactions 478 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 2: almost like you just can't believe you know, the composer 479 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 2: Caroline Shaw is someone I work with a lot on 480 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 2: a door and I think she's just a genius. And 481 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 2: I remember we were we were together one night when 482 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 2: this guy did this stuff, and it's like we had 483 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 2: a card and it ended up in the salt or something, 484 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 2: and we still talk about it. So your card is 485 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,679 Speaker 2: in the salt, and it's like, wow, it's unbelievable, and 486 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 2: you want that feeling of possibility, like how is that possible? 487 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 2: Is kind of and so what a great place to be. 488 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 2: So I aspire to that. 489 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 1: It's two thousand. From my understanding of the story, you're 490 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 1: in DC. I believe you're sitting next to Giffer, to 491 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: Gabby Gabby Giffer. Now, Harvard has never accepted somebody to 492 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: get an mp. 493 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 3: A degree without having a bachelor's. 494 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: Now, arguably you've earned a bachelor degree for the twenty 495 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: plus years of your life that no one earns in 496 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 1: four years going And. 497 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 2: That was the case. I made that. 498 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: And you get accepted to this program, which then brings 499 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: you to eventually getting the position of being the president 500 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: of what is arguably, if not definitively the premier. 501 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 3: Art school, Juilliard in New York. I think one. But 502 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 3: my silly question is, is it sort of like. 503 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: Fame for like, you know, like I always dream when 504 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 1: I saw fame in nineteen eighty two, because. 505 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 2: Me too, that idea of level spilling out onto this 506 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 2: performing art. 507 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 3: Yes. 508 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:59,400 Speaker 2: So yeah, two thousand and four, I'm at City Ballet. 509 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 2: It's going fine. I've started doing I mean between like 510 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 2: getting to be a principal dancer, and then I've started 511 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 2: branching and doing different things. I'm running groups, I'm choreographing 512 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 2: for City Valley and other places. I'm directing things. Still 513 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 2: primarily a dancer, but I'm at all these other things. 514 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 2: I start doing stuff where I don't know. I wish 515 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,159 Speaker 2: I could really think about it hard. But there was 516 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 2: a moment when I realized that I liked and I 517 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,959 Speaker 2: had an affinity for speaking in public about art stuff. 518 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 2: Basically first dance, like I would do a lecture demonstration 519 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 2: and I would very easily talk about dance, and that 520 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 2: translated to being, you know, talking about the arts in general. 521 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 2: And at one point I got asked to be on 522 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 2: a group of kind of a forty under forty of 523 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 2: US and China relations, and I was sort of the 524 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 2: arts guy, and there was a Chinese arts guy, and 525 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 2: there was an American business and an American military and so 526 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 2: on and so forth and government. And that's where I 527 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 2: met Gabby. So I had built to that place where 528 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 2: I was sort of involved in things beyond my primary 529 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 2: and I loved it and I was interested in it. 530 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 2: It goes back to, you know, my childhood and my 531 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 2: dad being an international law and foreign policy professor, and 532 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 2: you know, it's like in my head that this is 533 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 2: a global thing, thinking about how the art world played 534 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 2: in the Cold War, and I would always think about 535 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,360 Speaker 2: that and talk about things like that, looking to make 536 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 2: the arts more a part of society. I thought, you know, 537 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 2: this is making it more than simply a performance. What's 538 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 2: the rest. So when we talked a little bit about 539 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 2: the eighties that was brewing, it was in there like 540 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 2: this is a bigger conversation and I like to talk. 541 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 2: It turns out, so National Committee has this forty forty thing. 542 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 2: It's an interesting group, and it was actually in Arizona 543 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 2: and Gabby and I get on the bus like going 544 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 2: to dinner, you know, like from the hotel. You're a 545 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 2: wady with the dinner thing, you know, and She starts 546 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 2: asking me about what I'm going to do when I 547 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 2: stopped dancing, which is not close, but it's maybe not far. 548 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 2: I'm in my mid thirties that point, and who knows, 549 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 2: you know, an accident can happen anytime. You don't know, yah, 550 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 2: And I say, gosh, you know, I'm doing this and 551 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 2: this and this. I'm dancing, I'm directing. I'm probably going 552 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 2: to stay in the field because you know, I didn't 553 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 2: go to college, and I don't see you know, I 554 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 2: don't have some great ballet fortune here. It's not like 555 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 2: I can just stop and take four years off and 556 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 2: go to college. 557 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 3: You know. 558 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 2: It doesn't seem that way to me. So I see 559 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 2: people do it now, and I'm just hats off. I'm like, wow, 560 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 2: I don't know how to do this. 561 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 3: Stop the Yeah. 562 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 2: No. They managed to juggle in different ways, and she said, well, 563 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 2: you know what, there's this program at the Kennedy School 564 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 2: at Harvard. It's a mid career program and it's a 565 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 2: master's program. And she said, I think you should do that, 566 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 2: you know, And I was like, well, how am I 567 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 2: gonna do that? She said, I'm telling you, it's a 568 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 2: mid career program. You should persevere you should try. So 569 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 2: I file it away. I go home and I look 570 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 2: online and I look at the requirements and nowhere does 571 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 2: it say you need a bachelor's degree. I'm looking and 572 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 2: then like, it actually doesn't say it. So I call 573 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 2: up the Kennedy School and I get somebody at admissions 574 00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 2: and I asked them and that somebody says, oh, well 575 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 2: it should say that, you know. And I'm like, oops, okay, 576 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 2: so okay, and I remember going outside, We're at our 577 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 2: house in Connecticut other than I and I say, well, 578 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 2: there goes that you know or something like that, and 579 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 2: she's like, who did you talk to? And I'm like, 580 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 2: I don't know. Somebody had admissions. She said maybe you 581 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 2: should try a little harder, you know, And sure enough, 582 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 2: I try a little harder. I end up going up there. 583 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 2: I meet a mutual contact of a friend who basically 584 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 2: says a version of well did you go to high 585 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 2: school a bit? Because the truth is I graduated super 586 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 2: early from Hollywood High School. It's because I was dancing 587 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 2: professionally in LA at that point, and I got all 588 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 2: the credits and I just couldn't wait to get going. 589 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 2: So I did at least a bit I said, and 590 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 2: she's like, oh my god, I guess you should come 591 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 2: up here. And so I did, and I met the 592 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 2: head of the program, and then I met the dean 593 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 2: of the school, and the dean of the school an 594 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 2: amazing man named Joe Joseph McCarthy, No, no choke be 595 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 2: his name is. Joe McCarthy said to me, I like 596 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 2: to think that Harvard's the kind of place that understands 597 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 2: this situation. And boy do I think about that all 598 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 2: the time in my current role. I'm like aspire to that. 599 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 2: And he said, Okay, So here's the deal. Apply take 600 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 2: your GRE tests, get your recommendations, and if you are 601 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 2: not you know, if you if you are able to 602 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 2: do the work, we're gonna we're gonna make this. We're 603 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 2: going to figure this out. Because no one's been at 604 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 2: school in a long time anyway, everybody's been out for 605 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 2: at least a dozen years because it's a mid career program, 606 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 2: and let's just see. So I came back, I got 607 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 2: a tutor for the GRES, did a ton of practice tests, 608 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 2: did it. It went fine, great, recommendations worked. You know, 609 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 2: I just said, I think I can do this, studied 610 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 2: like crazy, and one day I was on the airport 611 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 2: going to Texas to do a gig and I got 612 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 2: an email and it said you're in, You're going to 613 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 2: You're going to Harvard. And I was like, are you 614 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 2: kidding me? And I remember hither and I were laughing 615 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 2: so hard because we were living kind of in another century, 616 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 2: I guess, because we kept thinking it would come in 617 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 2: the mailbox. And I got an email, you know, and it. 618 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 3: Was like, I got an yest century are. 619 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 2: Rejected, just an email in some you know, tragic little 620 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 2: restaurant in LaGuardia. I'm like, oh my god. So and 621 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,239 Speaker 2: and I talked to the dean again, and I make 622 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 2: some plans, and I take some economics courses over the 623 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 2: summer to get ready. The next thing, you know, I'm 624 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 2: there and I get this master's in Public Administration, which 625 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 2: is essentially a leadership degree, but it's a to me. 626 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 2: It was like the chance of a lifetime to go 627 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 2: to school. And so I took classes at the business school, 628 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 2: at the law school, and I was all over the place. 629 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 2: I was taking you know, seminars, and I did all 630 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 2: these different types of things, rhetoric with David Gergan. I 631 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 2: remember I took a course on state craft with the 632 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 2: most incredible professor who was a priest who I actually 633 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 2: knew as a kid because he worked with my father 634 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 2: on international law things. Again, it was like so crazy, 635 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 2: and back and back in Cambridge, Boston, you know, running 636 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 2: back and forth to Boston Valley to stay in shape 637 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 2: because I'm still dancing. So I'm in Boston staying in shape, 638 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 2: come back anyway. It all adds up that by the 639 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 2: time I actually retire that night, when I'm forty one, 640 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 2: I've kind of got a bunch of different lives going. 641 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 1: Thanks for pulling up a chair today on table for two. 642 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,719 Speaker 1: While Damien had an incredible career as a ballet dancer, 643 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: he now has another important role. He has served as 644 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: president of the Juilliard School in New York City since 645 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: July twenty eighteen. 646 00:33:55,160 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 3: You've had this huge, vast career here in New York 647 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 3: and you find yourself now running Juilliard. 648 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 2: So we'd all added up in a funny way. So 649 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 2: that just to cut fast from two thousand and eight 650 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 2: to twenty eighteen, when I become the president, I am 651 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,399 Speaker 2: doing I'm leading three or four lives, I'm directing, I'm 652 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 2: working on national arts education, programs, really dreaming the big 653 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 2: dream that every child should have arts in their schools 654 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 2: and how do we get there? And doing work on 655 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 2: that that I'm super proud of and super inspiring and 656 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 2: humbling to get to do. I'm working as at the 657 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 2: Aspen Institute. I created an arts policy program there that 658 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 2: was all about art and society, very focused on education, 659 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 2: but also diplomacy, economics, other things. And when I get 660 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 2: a call about Juilliard, there's this moment when I go 661 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 2: and I really am happy. I will say, doing all 662 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 2: these different things, it is like, what a gift to 663 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 2: never get to you never say no. I remember George 664 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,879 Speaker 2: Stevens Junior asked me to start directing, you know, dance 665 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 2: when they had a Kennedy Center honor who is a dancer? 666 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 2: I would direct those. I never had to say no. 667 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 2: I was like, yes, call me, say yes. I did 668 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 2: things for the World Science Festival honor. I to honor 669 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 2: Stephen Hawking with a performance attributing art and science. So 670 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 2: when I got when I got this call, I was 671 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,279 Speaker 2: in the habit of saying I do not want one job. 672 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 2: But then I thought about what Juilliard was and I 673 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 2: was like, it is all of it. It is the 674 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 2: education piece, It is the performance piece. It is the 675 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,840 Speaker 2: international global impact. It is the future of the arts. 676 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 2: It is economics, it is what is going to create 677 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 2: the next centers, the next programs, all the teachers that 678 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 2: come out of there who educate the next generation. And 679 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 2: I was like, okay, I it is a dream dream 680 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 2: to try to enter that world. And back at Juilliard. 681 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, do you feel like when you're looking 682 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: at the student now at Juilliard and everything's changed in 683 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 1: the world, you know, between social. 684 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 2: Media, attact and all that. 685 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, has the student changed? Is there work ethic different? 686 00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,840 Speaker 3: Are they jaded in a different way? Are they motivated 687 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 3: in a different way? 688 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 2: It seems like it's a so yes, everything changes generationally, 689 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,280 Speaker 2: it changes. We all know that from from our lives. 690 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 2: You know, we know that people and you know kind 691 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 2: of and then we so we know it this way 692 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 2: first looking up and then suddenly we look down and 693 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 2: we're like, oh, they're different, right right, you know, they 694 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 2: don't think that we're not thinking exactly the same way. Yeah, 695 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 2: But you know the gift of getting to work, obviously 696 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 2: with successive generations is recognizing that and being a part 697 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 2: of that that story right to my mind. You know, 698 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 2: it's gotten infinitely more complex in different ways, the things 699 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 2: that take up your time. But conversely, you can see everything, 700 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 2: all of the inspiration you want, it's at yours, it's 701 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 2: in your pocket. It's like, oh my god, look at this, 702 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,359 Speaker 2: and look at this and look at this. Conversely, maybe 703 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,919 Speaker 2: you're not getting quite the same amount of the need 704 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 2: for live experience, which is actually in so many ways 705 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,760 Speaker 2: the most that's live and living are related as works. 706 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,319 Speaker 2: So you know, are we living this? Yes, and yet 707 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 2: the rigor of it is still the same. You're still 708 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:08,959 Speaker 2: showing up as a dancer to the bar, You're still 709 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,359 Speaker 2: going to your lessons as a musician, You're still doing 710 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 2: your skills. You're still doing you know, a build of 711 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 2: repertory found but where it's going or actors, the same thing. 712 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 2: It's all good. The foundation of diction and all the 713 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 2: things that they teach at Juilliard like nowhere else in 714 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 2: the world. It's like it's I can't believe when I 715 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 2: go and I get to watch and I see the 716 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:35,759 Speaker 2: progression over time that remains. But the destinations are enormously 717 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 2: you know, more varied. There's more of a sense of 718 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,839 Speaker 2: and it's I believe in this so much. There are 719 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 2: so many ways to get to heaven. There are so 720 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 2: many destinations that are definitions of success. Whereas you know, 721 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 2: in in many generations pass there was a narrower set 722 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 2: of outcomes that you would, you know, you might embrace. 723 00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 2: You might be going to an orchestra. You might be 724 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 2: a soloist, you might be a you might be a 725 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 2: film composer, you might be someone who works independently as 726 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 2: with your own ensemble. You might I mean, it's just 727 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 2: it's the varying things are so much And what I 728 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 2: love so much about Juilliard is that that edge effect 729 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,360 Speaker 2: is there are so many edges you have your you know, 730 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,279 Speaker 2: within music, there's an opera, there's jazz, there's composition, there's 731 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 2: baroque music, there's orchestral news, there's chamber music. There's the composers. 732 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 2: There's and then they're next to the dancers, who are 733 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,880 Speaker 2: a variety of outcomes, whether they're going into you know, 734 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,720 Speaker 2: foundational modern dance or into ballet or going to Europe 735 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 2: to be in a you know, a contemporary company, or 736 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 2: to be choreographers or to be directors of which so 737 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 2: many Juilliard graduates and dance or the directors of the 738 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 2: companies all kinds. And then in drama you know that 739 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 2: that field, you know, from the theater base, which is 740 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 2: what Juilliard's base was for theater. Look at the film, 741 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 2: you know, you look at you know, from the beginning, 742 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,319 Speaker 2: you know, from like Christopher Reeves and Robin Williams and 743 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 2: you know, to Viola Davis, to Jessica Chastain to and 744 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 2: right down to day. The outcomes in film are enormous, 745 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 2: But then all the other ways that actors are actually 746 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 2: functioning today, and we just think about, you know, this 747 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,839 Speaker 2: is this is the ecosystem that we are actually not 748 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 2: just partaking in, but going to continue creating. And that 749 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 2: to me was the thing. I was like, Wow, this 750 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 2: is you know, music, dance, and drama together, not just 751 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 2: performers but makers. Not just makers and performers, but potential 752 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 2: teachers at Lincoln Center surrounded by one set of outcomes 753 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 2: which we send people to all those houses. You know, 754 00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 2: if we have a all call Julliard alumni on Lincoln 755 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:42,920 Speaker 2: Center Plaza, you know, all come out and you know, 756 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,360 Speaker 2: saying it'll be quite something, you know, but then it 757 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 2: just keeps going, not just in America, globally around the world, 758 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 2: and so what we put in is what we get out, 759 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,799 Speaker 2: and to me, that is that foundation. And then the 760 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 2: adventure of it all. What is next? What are the 761 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 2: what are the collaborative things that we can nurture now? 762 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,800 Speaker 2: What can they try now? That will be the next step. 763 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 2: We think about the generation's past, and again it's oscillation. 764 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 2: There are times when institutions kind of go like this 765 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,560 Speaker 2: and hang on to things. They say, we're going to solidify, 766 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,840 Speaker 2: and then there's times when they push out, you know, 767 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 2: and they make room. I heard bil Ty Jones say 768 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,759 Speaker 2: that in a room at Juilliard my first year. He 769 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 2: was talking about, you know, the message in one of 770 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 2: the pieces, the piece they were staging on Juilliard, and 771 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:26,799 Speaker 2: he talked to the dancers and I have to say, 772 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 2: I hadn't thought about this in a while, but man, 773 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,840 Speaker 2: it's mystical. They're surrounding him and you know what Bilty 774 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 2: looks like. It's just like it's a magnificent human being. 775 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 2: And he said what we were saying, and he put 776 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,319 Speaker 2: his elbows out is make room or make room. And 777 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:50,800 Speaker 2: I was like, wow, what a message. 778 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,320 Speaker 1: One of the things that I find that's so effective 779 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,880 Speaker 1: in leadership is if you've actually worked in the trenches, 780 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 1: if you worked in the you know, from being in 781 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,319 Speaker 1: the costume department to dancing to being you know, it 782 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:13,640 Speaker 1: doesn't feel like anyone sits in that chair who can 783 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,879 Speaker 1: actually talk to your students and say, I know it, 784 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:18,759 Speaker 1: I lived it. 785 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:19,560 Speaker 3: Yeah did it. 786 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,279 Speaker 2: I mean the history of Juilliard like the history of 787 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 2: you know, kind of classical, but also art because in 788 00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 2: Juilliard's not strictly classical. There is jazz, for instance. There 789 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 2: are contemporary forms both in dance and in drama. We 790 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 2: have composers in film. This is not you know, but 791 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 2: it is a it is a wide ambition, it's my point. 792 00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,399 Speaker 2: But all of it is relatively new. When we look 793 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,719 Speaker 2: at the rest of the world, it's pretty new. 794 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. 795 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,800 Speaker 2: So Jilliard starts in nineteen oh five in its first incarnation, 796 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 2: it's not even called Juilliard till nineteen twenty six, and 797 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,960 Speaker 2: then it grows to add dance in nineteen years fifty one. Yeah, 798 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 2: we're going to be one hundred name so I get 799 00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 2: another whack at a centennial. They did one in two 800 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 2: thousand and five, another one. We're gonna do another nineteen 801 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 2: fifty one, they add dance. Nineteen sixty nine, they had 802 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 2: drama when they moved to Lincoln Center to represent all 803 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,400 Speaker 2: the art forms there because that's where are the educational 804 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 2: constituents that they had said, this is going to be everything, 805 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,839 Speaker 2: and it's all in development. So when I look back 806 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,319 Speaker 2: at the leaders of Juilliard from the beginning, this is 807 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:24,040 Speaker 2: all revolution. It's all like here we go. America too, 808 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 2: will have a classical symphony of we will educate for it, 809 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 2: not just going to import. And then dance takes hold 810 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:34,960 Speaker 2: and we think about the modern dance kind of revolution 811 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,520 Speaker 2: starting with Graham. You know, company is going to be 812 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 2: They're going to have their one hundredth anniversary in twenty 813 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 2: twenty six two. That's going to be the Martha Graham Company. 814 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,319 Speaker 2: It's all developing. So when like William Schumann was a 815 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:47,320 Speaker 2: president for many years and then he became the president 816 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 2: of the first batch of Lincoln Center, actually first round, 817 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,040 Speaker 2: he was the second, but he was really the first 818 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 2: practicing president. He's adding things in a way just like 819 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,320 Speaker 2: New York is, just like America is post war. Post 820 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,279 Speaker 2: war is like unbelievable. Look where we're sitting right now. 821 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 2: You were talking about Lincoln Center. I was thinking of 822 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,719 Speaker 2: City Center, you know, on fifty fifth Street, which was 823 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,040 Speaker 2: made by Mayor LaGuardia to be the people's house for dance, 824 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,160 Speaker 2: where City Ballet was founded, for City Opera found, where 825 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,880 Speaker 2: the musicals, where all of this kind of history is 826 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,279 Speaker 2: just happening at that time. After it's a post war 827 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,799 Speaker 2: boom of many kinds, and in New York and in 828 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,719 Speaker 2: culture in America, you start seeing the investment in it. 829 00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,399 Speaker 2: You see like the Ford Foundation sponsoring not just City 830 00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,640 Speaker 2: Ballet and Soil American Ballet making an investment, but theater 831 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,480 Speaker 2: and orchestras around the country. All of those theaters, you know, 832 00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 2: the guth three and the one in Houston that I'm 833 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,160 Speaker 2: losing my mind here, I can't remember. All of that 834 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,960 Speaker 2: is post war energy that goes for decades. That leads 835 00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,200 Speaker 2: us to the place where we have a Lincoln Center, 836 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 2: because we're not there yet, we don't have our homage 837 00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,440 Speaker 2: to art in that way. And that leads to the 838 00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 2: Kennedy Center, and then then we have an established thing, 839 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:00,880 Speaker 2: and Julliard is a part of that every step of 840 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,960 Speaker 2: the way, building and those leaders are adding and building. Yes, 841 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,120 Speaker 2: and you know this is a. This is evolution, and 842 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,760 Speaker 2: we continue and the project is not done. The project 843 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:12,880 Speaker 2: continue what it's one. 844 00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:17,160 Speaker 1: A message has I don't think has anyone ever sat 845 00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:22,400 Speaker 1: in your seat, Julia with the history behind them, because 846 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,640 Speaker 1: you one of the things that I find that's. 847 00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:38,760 Speaker 3: So effective in leadership and leadership on any level. Damian. 848 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:40,560 Speaker 1: I couldn't think of a better person to sit in 849 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,040 Speaker 1: the seat that you're sitting in. And I could also 850 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:47,120 Speaker 1: want to say the journey of your life from a 851 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 1: little boy to the dance, to the choreographer to the 852 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,719 Speaker 1: directing to be sitting here in the center of our 853 00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,280 Speaker 1: beloved city at such a vibrant time in your life 854 00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,840 Speaker 1: and you are how helping people find their voice, to 855 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,440 Speaker 1: create more beauty and tell stories. 856 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,359 Speaker 2: And oh, it's really kind of you. My goal here 857 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,879 Speaker 2: is to create next steps. I want this to be 858 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:14,120 Speaker 2: ever more creative and also ever more affordable. We're making 859 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,759 Speaker 2: it happen. We have our drama MFA went tuition free 860 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,000 Speaker 2: this last fall with the help of some wonderful people. 861 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:19,719 Speaker 3: We have. 862 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:21,799 Speaker 2: You know, over a third of our students, or just 863 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,719 Speaker 2: at a third right now, are tuition free, and some 864 00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,960 Speaker 2: of our programs for young people, we have our own 865 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,239 Speaker 2: preparatory division that we're expanding out into communities to try 866 00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,000 Speaker 2: to make sure that every child has that opportunity to 867 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,799 Speaker 2: experience art so they're not in a way, they get 868 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,680 Speaker 2: the benefit of it and whether they, you know, end 869 00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,160 Speaker 2: up on a stage or just for life, for the 870 00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:42,680 Speaker 2: skills that come with an artistic kind of practice. I 871 00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:46,400 Speaker 2: think foundationally for America, for the world, that the foundation 872 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,799 Speaker 2: of understanding is culture. And I appreciate you giving me 873 00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,759 Speaker 2: the chance to have this conversation all this time. 874 00:45:53,200 --> 00:46:04,400 Speaker 3: Thank you for your time, thank you for pulling up 875 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:04,759 Speaker 3: for share. 876 00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:09,400 Speaker 4: I love our lunches and never forget the romance of 877 00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,640 Speaker 4: a meal. If you enjoy the show, please tell a 878 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:16,720 Speaker 4: friend and rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Table 879 00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,680 Speaker 4: for Two with Bruce Bosi is produced by iHeartRadio seven 880 00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:23,760 Speaker 4: three seven Park and Airmail. Our executive producers are Bruce 881 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:28,000 Speaker 4: Bosi and Nathan King. Our supervising producer is Dylan Fagan. 882 00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,560 Speaker 4: Our editors are Vincent to Johnny and Cas B. 883 00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:32,200 Speaker 3: Bias. 884 00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:36,200 Speaker 1: Table for two is researched and written by Jack Sullivan. 885 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 1: Our sound engineers are Meil B. Klein, Jess Krainich, Evan Taylor, 886 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:44,879 Speaker 1: and Jesse Funk. Our music supervisor is Randall. Poster Our 887 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,960 Speaker 1: talent booking is done by Jane Sarkin. Table for two's 888 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:52,200 Speaker 1: social media manager is Gracie Wiener. Special thanks to Amy Sugarman, 889 00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:57,719 Speaker 1: Uni Scherer, Kevin Yvane, Bobby Bauer, Alison Kanter Graber. For 890 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:02,800 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, 891 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,240 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.