Speaker 1: M Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties weekly podcast featuring conversations
Speaker 1: with industry leaders about the business of entertainment. I'm Cynthia Littleton,
Speaker 1: Managing editor of Television for Variety Today. My guest in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles is Gigi Pritzker. Pritzker is CEO of Madison
Speaker 1: Wells Media. She's a veteran producer and film financier who
Speaker 1: has expanded her company significantly in the past few years.
Speaker 1: Madison Wells Media, named for the street corner in Chicago
Speaker 1: where her grandfather once sold newspapers, now encompasses television production, VR,
Speaker 1: live experiences and more. In our interview, she talks about
Speaker 1: how she's been able to grow an independent production outfit
Speaker 1: in a marketplace dominated by media giants. G g. Pritsker,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for stopping by to talk with us.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Um. You run MWM, which is a very
Speaker 1: versified media company. You have a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of operations, a lot of fingers and a lot of pies. Um.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the I want to talk
Speaker 1: about some of the cutting edge things that you guys
Speaker 1: are involved with in terms of VR and you know,
Speaker 1: immersive entertainment experiences. But I thought we'd talk. I know
Speaker 1: you're kind of your roots are in the film business,
Speaker 1: putting together, helping to finance, helping you know, arranged distribution
Speaker 1: for films. The perception in the industry right now is
Speaker 1: that the film business is generally challenged. That that that
Speaker 1: that you have the blockbusters, you have Black Panther, and
Speaker 1: you have everything else. In your experience as somebody who's
Speaker 1: who's been in the business for a long time and
Speaker 1: has worked in this area, how do you see the
Speaker 1: state of getting a movie made these days? Well, having
Speaker 1: always been kind of an outsider um and not in
Speaker 1: the system, it's always been challenging. So challenge is nothing
Speaker 1: new for independent filmmakers. UM. I think now there are
Speaker 1: different lenges UM the UM, the advent or the you know,
Speaker 1: building up of s VAUD and other streaming platforms. You
Speaker 1: can look at it as a negative or as a challenge.
Speaker 1: I kind of view it as a positive and as
Speaker 1: an opportunity. The reality is we at MWM look at
Speaker 1: creators and story as the main focus of what we do.
Speaker 1: We're oriented around storytelling and so some stories lend themselves
Speaker 1: to a theatrical release and some don't, and some make
Speaker 1: more sense for streaming and some don't. So for us,
Speaker 1: we just see expanded opportunity to tell stories, uh, in
Speaker 1: a variety of ways. But as as the specific of
Speaker 1: the question, Um, with respect to independent film, I think
Speaker 1: you have to be more nimble now. I think you
Speaker 1: have to be UM focused in how you develop and
Speaker 1: what stories you're developing and with what creators you are
Speaker 1: developing them. And so yes, it's challenged, but it's never
Speaker 1: not been challenged. And there are certain arenas that are
Speaker 1: more challenging than other there's certain budget ranges that are
Speaker 1: more challenging than others. Um, But that's okay, that's what
Speaker 1: we're in. That's the business wherein as challenge and difficulty, right,
Speaker 1: it wouldn't it wouldn't be as dynamic a market or
Speaker 1: as sexy a business if it was, if anybody could
Speaker 1: just go in and you know, come up with the
Speaker 1: formula and have a you know, have a hit, have
Speaker 1: a hit movie. Yeah, it was never easy, Like, okay,
Speaker 1: there's no over the twenty five years I've been doing this,
Speaker 1: thirty years I've been doing this, there wasn't a period
Speaker 1: when I can go, oh, well it was easy. Then
Speaker 1: how would you say in terms of your In terms
Speaker 1: of the business model for your company, you provide some
Speaker 1: financing for films and then bringing other investors or do
Speaker 1: you typically a fully financed all p and A for
Speaker 1: for the projects that you get behind. We don't findance
Speaker 1: pna UM. We develop. We UM finance our own development,
Speaker 1: so we have development UM in house. We also co
Speaker 1: produce and co develop and co um uh all sorts
Speaker 1: of things. We love collaborating, so for us, there isn't
Speaker 1: any one way in which we work in film and TV.
Speaker 1: So material comes in, material gets developed internally, that then
Speaker 1: becomes something that we package. We then may take on
Speaker 1: a co financier, we may not UM. It really just
Speaker 1: depends on the project and when we UM get into
Speaker 1: the distribution pipeline on a particular piece also dictates what
Speaker 1: the financing scenario looks like, so it happens in a
Speaker 1: variety of ways. UM. We also have foreign distribution capabilities,
Speaker 1: so we're pretty nimble around financing, understand the landscape really
Speaker 1: well and can be helpful UM to filmmakers on that front.
Speaker 1: In terms of foreign distribution, do you have your own
Speaker 1: sales entity or do you work with others that have
Speaker 1: feet on the ground in various markets. So we used
Speaker 1: to have I built my own UM foreign sales operation
Speaker 1: when we were odd Lot Um and it was odd
Speaker 1: Lot International, which we then merged UM with Sierra Affinity.
Speaker 1: So over the years it has changed and morphed kind
Speaker 1: of the That's the story of everything I've done. Uh,
Speaker 1: it evolves and changes as the business changes. UM. And
Speaker 1: then a few years ago we found that we were
Speaker 1: doing lots of things through the studios and those were
Speaker 1: worldwide rights, so it wasn't quite the same as split
Speaker 1: right steals. So we currently work with lots of different
Speaker 1: foreign sales agencies and studios and all kinds of different
Speaker 1: ways of putting it together. And how has you know,
Speaker 1: Netflix and Amazon in particular have come in and our
Speaker 1: big forces now in the film business, especially that kind
Speaker 1: of the traditional kind of mid range budget not not
Speaker 1: the blockbuster and not the micro budget. Um. They're coming
Speaker 1: in and filling you know, filling that that market very well.
Speaker 1: But I know that their economics of what they need
Speaker 1: in terms of the rights can be very challenging for
Speaker 1: somebody for an independent producer that is trying to you know,
Speaker 1: that is trying to recoup costs. And then some how
Speaker 1: are you dealing with the introduction of streaming services with
Speaker 1: different models than even than even the studios that you
Speaker 1: know are famous for wanting all rights that they can
Speaker 1: get their hands on. Well, I think that's exactly why
Speaker 1: about three years ago, I re oriented the way in
Speaker 1: which I'm in the industry UM. Whereas before odd Lot
Speaker 1: was really truly independent film production UM, and I had
Speaker 1: a theater company that was separate from that. It occurred
Speaker 1: to me about three years ago, as all of this
Speaker 1: was changing and Netflix was growing in Amazon was coming
Speaker 1: into the space that really what you needed to do
Speaker 1: was orient yourself around story and whatever way in which
Speaker 1: that story gets executed, whether it's film and the film,
Speaker 1: whether it's theatrically distributed or on a streaming platform, whether
Speaker 1: it's TV, whether it's immersive, all of those UM opportunities
Speaker 1: to express story are available under one roof with us
Speaker 1: now at Madison Wells Media, and so I think UM,
Speaker 1: for me, that's provided us an opportunity to be more
Speaker 1: nimble and to respond to what the market forces are
Speaker 1: and how things are changing within distribution landscapes. UM. So
Speaker 1: we're not really dependent solely on just our film business
Speaker 1: or just another business, you know, the live business. We
Speaker 1: really are UM a group UH that can express story
Speaker 1: in a lot of different ways. I think a perfect
Speaker 1: example for us is Genius, which is the series we
Speaker 1: have with Fox twenty one at Gianna Imagine. Originally that
Speaker 1: was the Einstein UM property, which was ours, and we
Speaker 1: tried for a number of years to figure out how
Speaker 1: to tell the Einstein story as a film. And as
Speaker 1: we were failing to do that properly UM and not
Speaker 1: meeting our own expectations, um TV started to change. Streaming
Speaker 1: came on and it became really clear to me that
Speaker 1: actually Einstein's life was too big for a two hour structure,
Speaker 1: and so it was like, wait a minute, let's reorient
Speaker 1: this and think about it in limited series. And once
Speaker 1: we were able to do that and rethink it and
Speaker 1: Imagine came on board, it became a much easier way
Speaker 1: to tell that story, and it became the series that
Speaker 1: is Genius, and we just finished season two with Picasso
Speaker 1: and Emmy nominated both years in a row. Congratulation. Thank
Speaker 1: you so so, that to me is a perfect example
Speaker 1: of how we didn't want to be um UH standing
Speaker 1: behind technology or changes in the industry. We wanted to
Speaker 1: be able to be nimble enough so we wouldn't get
Speaker 1: kneecapped by that and be able to pivot when you
Speaker 1: need to pivot in terms of in terms of the
Speaker 1: way your company works, is it important do you have
Speaker 1: to have significant ownership or equity in a property to
Speaker 1: make it work for you, because I know in television
Speaker 1: it's always been, even more so than film, there has
Speaker 1: been almost a resistance to outside money. It's been, you know,
Speaker 1: especially as the companies have gotten bigger and the conglomerates
Speaker 1: more vertically integrated. There's been a sense of no, we
Speaker 1: want your development, but we don't want your money. We
Speaker 1: want to own all all worldwide rights, right, And I
Speaker 1: think sometimes that is changing. So there there are bits
Speaker 1: and pieces in the in the TV world that are
Speaker 1: starting to actually mimic the film and independent finance world,
Speaker 1: where you can put you know, foreign rights together to
Speaker 1: build a project that way. But the reality is um
Speaker 1: whether it's um having a huge amount of the equity
Speaker 1: or a piece of the equity, or fully financing or
Speaker 1: partially financing or film or television. For us, what's important
Speaker 1: is actually the package of rights that we have and
Speaker 1: the ability to take this material across different platforms. That
Speaker 1: to us is what's very important UM. And the financing
Speaker 1: structure and the equity structure can be you know, kind
Speaker 1: of a mixed portfolio. Frankly, depending on the project. It
Speaker 1: sounds like a lot to juggle though, you know, just
Speaker 1: in terms of keeping it all keeping it all straight,
Speaker 1: it is. It is a lot to juggle, but it's
Speaker 1: it's a it's a ton of fun and I think
Speaker 1: it's um for the group of us that are they're
Speaker 1: doing it, it's really um a completely collaborative by design structure.
Speaker 1: Uh so that are legal and finance and you know,
Speaker 1: the the business side or the operations side is very
Speaker 1: much embedded within the creative side as well. Everybody's working
Speaker 1: to solve the issues of how do we get the
Speaker 1: best creators, get the best storytellers be able to express
Speaker 1: what we want to express in the most effective way
Speaker 1: for us financially as well as creatively. There's you know,
Speaker 1: like I'm harping on this on the streaming services, but
Speaker 1: they are such a big force. Um. You know, there
Speaker 1: there are some pretty astounding UM pay days happening now
Speaker 1: for talent, for talent that isn't demand it you know,
Speaker 1: it's it isn't. It's an incredible time for talent that
Speaker 1: doesn't demand. It's also very challenging time for people to
Speaker 1: work within budgets and in parameters because expectations are now
Speaker 1: being set so high with you know, nine figure deals
Speaker 1: being written by Netflix. Is that a challenge for you
Speaker 1: at the development phase to attract to attract talent to us,
Speaker 1: you know, an independent company at a time when you know,
Speaker 1: when the largest companies are are chasing after big stars
Speaker 1: with big checks. You know, look, I think it's always
Speaker 1: hard and there's always challenges. But for us, we have
Speaker 1: found is UM talent at that level knows where they
Speaker 1: can go and get a big paycheck. To your point,
Speaker 1: but what we're building is a platform where people can
Speaker 1: come and actually build wealth and ownership and that's different
Speaker 1: UM and we're seeing that a lot of the talent
Speaker 1: that is coming and working with us and the creators
Speaker 1: that were orienting around appreciate that UM and so yeah,
Speaker 1: you can go there and get a big payday. There
Speaker 1: are limits to the upside, there are limits to the
Speaker 1: ownership UM and so ultimately sometimes that's great and that's
Speaker 1: all you want, and sometimes you want to own it
Speaker 1: and you want to be able to own all the
Speaker 1: rights along with us and really express it over years. UM,
Speaker 1: that's a different model. That's a different world. That's where
Speaker 1: we are. M It is a it is a fast
Speaker 1: changing marketplace out there. UM. Let's talk about some of
Speaker 1: your other the other divisions and other activities. I know
Speaker 1: you've been putting a lot of resources into VR right now.
Speaker 1: What do you think. I think VR is still a
Speaker 1: little bit of a nebulous market for a lot of people,
Speaker 1: including me, who doesn't who I've tried those I've tried
Speaker 1: the goggles. Oh boy, I just you know, I I
Speaker 1: get dizzy so fast. It's it's amazing. But it's a
Speaker 1: hard it's just hard for my old tired brain to
Speaker 1: take in all. What do you think do you see
Speaker 1: it becoming a more mainstream, more you know, UM, more
Speaker 1: readily accessible type of entertainment experience for people? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: think that for us. UM, the way we are engaged
Speaker 1: with VR and a R and just immersive content in
Speaker 1: general is UM that we want to be in the space.
Speaker 1: We want to get a better understanding of what it's
Speaker 1: like to be makers in the space. UM, But nobody
Speaker 1: knows where it's evolving or what the market is or
Speaker 1: when the market will catch up. So we're very disciplined
Speaker 1: and very careful UM to not get over our skis
Speaker 1: on it, if you will. So UM we're engaged in
Speaker 1: a variety of areas. I think what we're seeing is
Speaker 1: that a lot of the UM best use for this
Speaker 1: is in location based entertainment. There is really a burgeoning
Speaker 1: market UM for location based entertainment that is immersive and
Speaker 1: VR oriented UM. So we've got a number of projects
Speaker 1: UM in that space. We've got something with John Favreau
Speaker 1: called Nomes and Goblins that we did a short We
Speaker 1: released body little over a year ago, a short piece,
Speaker 1: and then we're now building that out UM. And the
Speaker 1: approach for something like that is both location based and
Speaker 1: then home install UM. And there's Sony PlayStation in other
Speaker 1: places where people are gravitating towards that content in that manner.
Speaker 1: But I think the location based aspect of it is
Speaker 1: really an interesting one, and it's interesting for us because
Speaker 1: it's the confluence of UM the technology that VR and
Speaker 1: a R has, but it's also got aspects of live theater,
Speaker 1: which we're also involved in. So we have a project
Speaker 1: that UM actually merges those two and is immersive theater
Speaker 1: UM and that certainly will be location based UM. So
Speaker 1: our immersive group is doing a lot of different kinds
Speaker 1: of work in different areas, some with established creators who
Speaker 1: want to work in this medium, some with new talent
Speaker 1: who are native to VR UM and so for us,
Speaker 1: it's really about again the very mixed portfolio, not being
Speaker 1: tied to one strategy that you go along on and
Speaker 1: then find out that the market shifted and whoops, you
Speaker 1: picked the wrong one. So I would say we're being
Speaker 1: very diligent, very careful, and trying to build relationships with
Speaker 1: the makers in that space. Uh. And the the ability
Speaker 1: to be innovative and really creative truly in it is
Speaker 1: is what's so much fun. It sounds like a big
Speaker 1: investment to be into that, into the actual technology to
Speaker 1: be able to to craft VR experiences or VR films. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean we are not, uh again like our overall platform,
Speaker 1: We're We're agnostic. So whether it's a you know, a
Speaker 1: vibe or a Hollo lens or whatever the technology is
Speaker 1: that we want to use to UM either port to
Speaker 1: or create the content in, we aren't owners of that.
Speaker 1: We aren't investing in that we are really content creators.
Speaker 1: That's what we are across all of the things that
Speaker 1: we do. And so that's a different mindset and a
Speaker 1: different um uh investment strategy. UM. And so for us,
Speaker 1: really it is content creation across the platform and including
Speaker 1: in VR and a R and immersive. Are you finding
Speaker 1: that creative talent like the Jon Favreau's are coming to
Speaker 1: you with I've got this great idea that I envisioning,
Speaker 1: you know, envision of br component to this movie or
Speaker 1: I envision of a full on VR entertainment experience. Are
Speaker 1: people coming in the door now with pitches like that, Yes,
Speaker 1: very much so. And UM there are also UM opportunities
Speaker 1: that we have with i P that comes to us
Speaker 1: through one portal. We want to make a film, we're
Speaker 1: doing this thing, we have this i P and then
Speaker 1: we have the ability to say, okay, well let's think
Speaker 1: about it in a different medium as well. UM. So
Speaker 1: for example, we have a show in our live group
Speaker 1: UM which does a lot of i P driven musicals UM,
Speaker 1: a show called Red Roses, Green Gold UM. It is
Speaker 1: the catalog of Jerry Garcia UM and Robert Hunter expressed
Speaker 1: in a musical UM with a story that doesn't relate
Speaker 1: to them, but using that music, which is the music
Speaker 1: of The Grateful Dead. That show was done off Broadway.
Speaker 1: Uh last year UM in New York and our immersive
Speaker 1: group worked with our theater group, our live group to
Speaker 1: create a music video that was in VR that we
Speaker 1: then took UM to south By Southwest and Yeah, exactly
Speaker 1: it was The Grateful Dead and VR how perfect long
Speaker 1: guitar jams. Uh. So it was great. It was a
Speaker 1: wonderful way for those groups to work together collaboratively. It
Speaker 1: was an interesting way to express that piece of theater
Speaker 1: in another medium. UM, and the fans of the show
Speaker 1: really appreciated the opportunity to see that music video in
Speaker 1: that format. So we're really bringing things very much across
Speaker 1: the different pieces within the groups that are that are
Speaker 1: assembled around Madison Welles Media. Is there a is there
Speaker 1: a a business model for VR at this point or
Speaker 1: is it still very experimental? Yeah, it's very experimental, which
Speaker 1: is why you have to be very UM. I think
Speaker 1: you have to be diligent, you have to be disciplined,
Speaker 1: but you have to be willing to take some risk. UM.
Speaker 1: It's certainly not without risk, no doubt about it. UM.
Speaker 1: But you know that to me, that's independent filmmaking from
Speaker 1: the beginning, right you you you need to think about
Speaker 1: what's your ultimate goal and how are you going to
Speaker 1: monetize this? But you have to be creative, so you
Speaker 1: have to take some risk um, but you try to
Speaker 1: mitigate the risk in any way you can. So it's
Speaker 1: always that balance between you know, creative risk, innovation, a market.
Speaker 1: Where is the market, what are the opportunities? And for
Speaker 1: us having put this together Madison Wells Media, the entire
Speaker 1: purpose is that this is a group of people oriented
Speaker 1: around being nimble, um, being able to take calculated risk um.
Speaker 1: And so that's you know, immersive is is no different,
Speaker 1: But yeah it isn't It is an area whose market
Speaker 1: is not to find right now. Um. You you mentioned,
Speaker 1: you know, being willing and having to have an appetite
Speaker 1: for risk. As you talk to other financiers and I'm
Speaker 1: sure deal with private equity and you know, investors, we
Speaker 1: hear that there's a lot of investors that want to
Speaker 1: put money into content. They see the you know, they
Speaker 1: see the booming global demand, they see the appetite of
Speaker 1: the big streaming services. Is that true? Is that a
Speaker 1: misperception in your experience right now in terms of, you know,
Speaker 1: the ability to attract other investors to to content ventures,
Speaker 1: to individual films or film slates. The sense is that
Speaker 1: the kind of the slate business had really tapered off
Speaker 1: in the last couple of years. Well, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't I don't know if we were out there just
Speaker 1: looking for film finance, I don't know what the world
Speaker 1: looks like now. Um, certainly on an individual basis, there
Speaker 1: are a lot of people with a lot of money
Speaker 1: that want to invest in movies because it's always been
Speaker 1: and always will be fun and sexy and all those things.
Speaker 1: Um we are um right now really I think an
Speaker 1: interesting and and and we have had incoming phone calls, Um,
Speaker 1: an interesting play for investors who are looking at a
Speaker 1: bigger content company that isn't just film based. But um, yes,
Speaker 1: we're finding there are people out there who are very
Speaker 1: interested because the world has changed so much and the
Speaker 1: ability to create content. You know, it's interesting are our
Speaker 1: group is assembled around not just financing, but actually being
Speaker 1: able to make the thing, whether it is the musical
Speaker 1: or the film or the TV show. So the ability
Speaker 1: to have both those sides the making of as well
Speaker 1: as the financing and in some cases the direct distribution
Speaker 1: of those things. Um is very attractive and is unique. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is very you know, it's rare that you have
Speaker 1: all of those elements on in an independent outfit under
Speaker 1: one roof. Yes, But I think it speaks also to
Speaker 1: your longevity. How long I know, prior to m w M,
Speaker 1: you were odd Lot Entertainment And remind me how long?
Speaker 1: How long when did you start first start odd Lot
Speaker 1: and in the in the business. Um, so odd Lot
Speaker 1: itself UM started around is somewhere in that vicinity. Um,
Speaker 1: but I've been you know, making film and um even
Speaker 1: before that, making music videos and filmed content and music videos,
Speaker 1: corporate films. You know, in the eighties, that was kind
Speaker 1: of the thing everybody in New York City, which is
Speaker 1: where I was building a small production company. You made
Speaker 1: whatever anybody needed you to make, mostly in video back then,
Speaker 1: so before everybody could make video on their iPhones exactly.
Speaker 1: So I mean I did literally hundreds of you know,
Speaker 1: this is the castor on the chair that this company makes,
Speaker 1: and we need a video to sell those casters. So
Speaker 1: we did hundreds of corporate films, which was great training
Speaker 1: because like try and tell the story of the most
Speaker 1: boring piece of equipment ever known to man. Interesting exactly,
Speaker 1: So it was it was really it was good training.
Speaker 1: And what was it that made you go into the
Speaker 1: film business or into the production entertainment business in the
Speaker 1: first place? Were you somebody who just grew up loving
Speaker 1: films and TV? You know? It's funny, Um, I feel
Speaker 1: like I didn't know going forward where it was all heading.
Speaker 1: And at some point you turn around at a certain
Speaker 1: age and you go, oh, that did all make sense.
Speaker 1: But I didn't really realize that going forward. So oddly, No,
Speaker 1: I didn't think I was going to always end up
Speaker 1: in the film business. But I lived in Nepal during
Speaker 1: college and did a thesis on cultural transmission through folk tales.
Speaker 1: So somewhere in their stories have always apparently been important
Speaker 1: to me. Um. And it was a meandering path that
Speaker 1: frankly got me here. Um. Because I didn't grow up
Speaker 1: in this industry. I don't have relatives that we're in
Speaker 1: this industry. Um. So I kind of came here very
Speaker 1: much as an outsider and started in New York. Wow.
Speaker 1: That's quite a that that's quite a rise. Good good
Speaker 1: for you in in start in obviously starting out as
Speaker 1: a filmmaker, but but blossoming into a business leader. UM,
Speaker 1: I have to ask you did you find along the way,
Speaker 1: especially when you were starting, did you did you experience sexism?
Speaker 1: Did you was it did you feel like people it
Speaker 1: was hard for people to take you seriously or to
Speaker 1: get a meeting because because you were g G and
Speaker 1: not George. Yeah, you know it's funny. Um. I am
Speaker 1: sure that that happened, no doubt. UM. But I am
Speaker 1: stubborn enough and focused enough, and grew up in a
Speaker 1: family that was very male. So I don't think I
Speaker 1: ever put it in that frame or thought about it
Speaker 1: that way. It's hard. What we do is hard, and
Speaker 1: so I just knew it was hard, and so I
Speaker 1: know I didn't get meetings and I wasn't in rooms
Speaker 1: I probably should have been in. I never attributed it
Speaker 1: to my being a female per se um, and I
Speaker 1: just figured it. Man, I had to push harder and
Speaker 1: work harder. But I am sure looking back, Yeah, there
Speaker 1: are jobs I didn't get. There are things I wasn't
Speaker 1: privy to. There were rooms I wasn't in. Um. And
Speaker 1: now being in the position I am, and being a
Speaker 1: female and being the age I am, Um, it's it's
Speaker 1: great because I had the opportunity to help other people,
Speaker 1: whether they're women or not, UM to really bring them
Speaker 1: into rooms where they should be and be able to
Speaker 1: have their stories told and be able to participate. And
Speaker 1: that feels great. That's a you know, certainly something that
Speaker 1: that I think there's more awareness and recognition of the
Speaker 1: need for that than ever before or and you know,
Speaker 1: to your point, there's there have been a lot of
Speaker 1: i think smaller entities and people, you know, efforts by
Speaker 1: individuals to to open those doors. And it seems like
Speaker 1: now there's that that awareness is so great that it
Speaker 1: you know that it may that it may start to change. Um.
Speaker 1: My last question before I let you go, what would
Speaker 1: you say? You know, even it's interesting you have, you know,
Speaker 1: you have quite a bit of quite a bit of
Speaker 1: material and quite a bit of work going on. What
Speaker 1: would you say do you think is the most untapped
Speaker 1: or the richest opportunity in the entertainment business right now?
Speaker 1: Mhm wow, that's an interesting question and there's so many
Speaker 1: different ways to go with that. One of them if yeah, Um,
Speaker 1: I think for us what's really exciting is um we
Speaker 1: are are because we're in so many different areas. The
Speaker 1: thing that's really fun that we're finding really enjoyable as
Speaker 1: a group and I and enjoying the challenge, UM is
Speaker 1: to uh find stories I P. Things that we can
Speaker 1: really grab ahold of and express in a variety of ways.
Speaker 1: Whether it's through our universe division, which is world building UM,
Speaker 1: not film first strategy, so expressing as podcasts or graphic
Speaker 1: novels are a number of different ways. So to me,
Speaker 1: it's the being able to tell stories in a variety
Speaker 1: of ways and build that franchise and build that I
Speaker 1: P up from the ground yourself. UM. We are working
Speaker 1: with an artist from Chicago named Hebrew Brantley hebrews awesome,
Speaker 1: and we're really working with him on some characters that
Speaker 1: he has to build that world and then to be
Speaker 1: able to express those characters in a variety of ways.
Speaker 1: That's a ton of fun and potentially enormously lucrative to
Speaker 1: build your own franchise that you can take across your
Speaker 1: own system UM and distry reviewed. So that I think
Speaker 1: is an interesting opportunity and and interesting challenge to build
Speaker 1: those kinds of franchises being independent and working with the
Speaker 1: creators to own it together. When you think about you know,
Speaker 1: if you put your mind back to your New York
Speaker 1: days making making industrial films about castors on chairs, and
Speaker 1: you look at the media world today and then just
Speaker 1: so many avenues for storytelling and platforms. It's got to
Speaker 1: be It's just it's got to be such a night
Speaker 1: and day uh marketplace now in terms of just in
Speaker 1: terms of how much things have grown and expanded. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it's funny. Um. So I'm from Chicago and
Speaker 1: I live in Chicago. Really even though my company is
Speaker 1: based in l A and everybody's here. Um, and because
Speaker 1: I grew up as a film focused filmmaker person, people
Speaker 1: will still say to me, so, you know, what's your
Speaker 1: next film? What do you work on? And it's so
Speaker 1: singular and the reality is now it's gotten so not
Speaker 1: as to us everybody. There's so many ways to work
Speaker 1: on so many different things. So it's really not what's
Speaker 1: the one thing, it's what are the many? Um, And
Speaker 1: that's that's kind of exciting. I'm enjoying this moment very much. Great. Well,
Speaker 1: we will stay tuned and we're gonna look for those
Speaker 1: location based VR installations. I'm so curious as to see
Speaker 1: who's going to crack that code, it'll be you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's. It's one of the new horizons to just
Speaker 1: to really watch out for. It sounds like you're really
Speaker 1: in it. It's being cracked as we speak. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much, gg, thank you sing thanks for listening. Be
Speaker 1: sure to tune in next week for another episode of
Speaker 1: Strictly Business.