1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: M Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties weekly podcast featuring conversations 2 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: with industry leaders about the business of entertainment. I'm Cynthia Littleton, 3 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: Managing editor of Television for Variety Today. My guest in 4 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: Los Angeles is Gigi Pritzker. Pritzker is CEO of Madison 5 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: Wells Media. She's a veteran producer and film financier who 6 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: has expanded her company significantly in the past few years. 7 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: Madison Wells Media, named for the street corner in Chicago 8 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: where her grandfather once sold newspapers, now encompasses television production, VR, 9 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: live experiences and more. In our interview, she talks about 10 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: how she's been able to grow an independent production outfit 11 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: in a marketplace dominated by media giants. G g. Pritsker, 12 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: thank you so much for stopping by to talk with us. 13 00:00:54,920 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: Thank you. Um. You run MWM, which is a very 14 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: versified media company. You have a lot of a lot 15 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,759 Speaker 1: of operations, a lot of fingers and a lot of pies. Um. 16 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: I want to talk about the I want to talk 17 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: about some of the cutting edge things that you guys 18 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: are involved with in terms of VR and you know, 19 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: immersive entertainment experiences. But I thought we'd talk. I know 20 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: you're kind of your roots are in the film business, 21 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: putting together, helping to finance, helping you know, arranged distribution 22 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: for films. The perception in the industry right now is 23 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 1: that the film business is generally challenged. That that that 24 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: that you have the blockbusters, you have Black Panther, and 25 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: you have everything else. In your experience as somebody who's 26 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: who's been in the business for a long time and 27 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: has worked in this area, how do you see the 28 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: state of getting a movie made these days? Well, having 29 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: always been kind of an outsider um and not in 30 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: the system, it's always been challenging. So challenge is nothing 31 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: new for independent filmmakers. UM. I think now there are 32 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: different lenges UM the UM, the advent or the you know, 33 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: building up of s VAUD and other streaming platforms. You 34 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: can look at it as a negative or as a challenge. 35 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: I kind of view it as a positive and as 36 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: an opportunity. The reality is we at MWM look at 37 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: creators and story as the main focus of what we do. 38 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 1: We're oriented around storytelling and so some stories lend themselves 39 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: to a theatrical release and some don't, and some make 40 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: more sense for streaming and some don't. So for us, 41 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 1: we just see expanded opportunity to tell stories, uh, in 42 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: a variety of ways. But as as the specific of 43 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: the question, Um, with respect to independent film, I think 44 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: you have to be more nimble now. I think you 45 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: have to be UM focused in how you develop and 46 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: what stories you're developing and with what creators you are 47 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: developing them. And so yes, it's challenged, but it's never 48 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: not been challenged. And there are certain arenas that are 49 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: more challenging than other there's certain budget ranges that are 50 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: more challenging than others. Um, But that's okay, that's what 51 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: we're in. That's the business wherein as challenge and difficulty, right, 52 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: it wouldn't it wouldn't be as dynamic a market or 53 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 1: as sexy a business if it was, if anybody could 54 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: just go in and you know, come up with the 55 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: formula and have a you know, have a hit, have 56 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: a hit movie. Yeah, it was never easy, Like, okay, 57 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: there's no over the twenty five years I've been doing this, 58 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: thirty years I've been doing this, there wasn't a period 59 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: when I can go, oh, well it was easy. Then 60 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: how would you say in terms of your In terms 61 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: of the business model for your company, you provide some 62 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: financing for films and then bringing other investors or do 63 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: you typically a fully financed all p and A for 64 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: for the projects that you get behind. We don't findance 65 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: pna UM. We develop. We UM finance our own development, 66 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: so we have development UM in house. We also co 67 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: produce and co develop and co um uh all sorts 68 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: of things. We love collaborating, so for us, there isn't 69 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,559 Speaker 1: any one way in which we work in film and TV. 70 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: So material comes in, material gets developed internally, that then 71 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: becomes something that we package. We then may take on 72 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: a co financier, we may not UM. It really just 73 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:38,119 Speaker 1: depends on the project and when we UM get into 74 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: the distribution pipeline on a particular piece also dictates what 75 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: the financing scenario looks like, so it happens in a 76 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: variety of ways. UM. We also have foreign distribution capabilities, 77 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: so we're pretty nimble around financing, understand the landscape really 78 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 1: well and can be helpful UM to filmmakers on that front. 79 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: In terms of foreign distribution, do you have your own 80 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 1: sales entity or do you work with others that have 81 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: feet on the ground in various markets. So we used 82 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: to have I built my own UM foreign sales operation 83 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: when we were odd Lot Um and it was odd 84 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: Lot International, which we then merged UM with Sierra Affinity. 85 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: So over the years it has changed and morphed kind 86 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: of the That's the story of everything I've done. Uh, 87 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: it evolves and changes as the business changes. UM. And 88 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: then a few years ago we found that we were 89 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: doing lots of things through the studios and those were 90 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: worldwide rights, so it wasn't quite the same as split 91 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: right steals. So we currently work with lots of different 92 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: foreign sales agencies and studios and all kinds of different 93 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 1: ways of putting it together. And how has you know, 94 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 1: Netflix and Amazon in particular have come in and our 95 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 1: big forces now in the film business, especially that kind 96 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: of the traditional kind of mid range budget not not 97 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: the blockbuster and not the micro budget. Um. They're coming 98 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: in and filling you know, filling that that market very well. 99 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: But I know that their economics of what they need 100 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: in terms of the rights can be very challenging for 101 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 1: somebody for an independent producer that is trying to you know, 102 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: that is trying to recoup costs. And then some how 103 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: are you dealing with the introduction of streaming services with 104 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: different models than even than even the studios that you 105 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: know are famous for wanting all rights that they can 106 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: get their hands on. Well, I think that's exactly why 107 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: about three years ago, I re oriented the way in 108 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 1: which I'm in the industry UM. Whereas before odd Lot 109 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: was really truly independent film production UM, and I had 110 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 1: a theater company that was separate from that. It occurred 111 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 1: to me about three years ago, as all of this 112 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: was changing and Netflix was growing in Amazon was coming 113 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: into the space that really what you needed to do 114 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 1: was orient yourself around story and whatever way in which 115 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: that story gets executed, whether it's film and the film, 116 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: whether it's theatrically distributed or on a streaming platform, whether 117 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: it's TV, whether it's immersive, all of those UM opportunities 118 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: to express story are available under one roof with us 119 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: now at Madison Wells Media, and so I think UM, 120 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: for me, that's provided us an opportunity to be more 121 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: nimble and to respond to what the market forces are 122 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: and how things are changing within distribution landscapes. UM. So 123 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: we're not really dependent solely on just our film business 124 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: or just another business, you know, the live business. We 125 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: really are UM a group UH that can express story 126 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: in a lot of different ways. I think a perfect 127 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: example for us is Genius, which is the series we 128 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: have with Fox twenty one at Gianna Imagine. Originally that 129 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: was the Einstein UM property, which was ours, and we 130 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: tried for a number of years to figure out how 131 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: to tell the Einstein story as a film. And as 132 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: we were failing to do that properly UM and not 133 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: meeting our own expectations, um TV started to change. Streaming 134 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: came on and it became really clear to me that 135 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: actually Einstein's life was too big for a two hour structure, 136 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: and so it was like, wait a minute, let's reorient 137 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: this and think about it in limited series. And once 138 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: we were able to do that and rethink it and 139 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: Imagine came on board, it became a much easier way 140 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: to tell that story, and it became the series that 141 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: is Genius, and we just finished season two with Picasso 142 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: and Emmy nominated both years in a row. Congratulation. Thank 143 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: you so so, that to me is a perfect example 144 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: of how we didn't want to be um UH standing 145 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: behind technology or changes in the industry. We wanted to 146 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: be able to be nimble enough so we wouldn't get 147 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: kneecapped by that and be able to pivot when you 148 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: need to pivot in terms of in terms of the 149 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 1: way your company works, is it important do you have 150 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: to have significant ownership or equity in a property to 151 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,599 Speaker 1: make it work for you, because I know in television 152 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:25,719 Speaker 1: it's always been, even more so than film, there has 153 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: been almost a resistance to outside money. It's been, you know, 154 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: especially as the companies have gotten bigger and the conglomerates 155 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: more vertically integrated. There's been a sense of no, we 156 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: want your development, but we don't want your money. We 157 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: want to own all all worldwide rights, right, And I 158 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: think sometimes that is changing. So there there are bits 159 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:45,719 Speaker 1: and pieces in the in the TV world that are 160 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: starting to actually mimic the film and independent finance world, 161 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: where you can put you know, foreign rights together to 162 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: build a project that way. But the reality is um 163 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: whether it's um having a huge amount of the equity 164 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: or a piece of the equity, or fully financing or 165 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: partially financing or film or television. For us, what's important 166 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: is actually the package of rights that we have and 167 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 1: the ability to take this material across different platforms. That 168 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: to us is what's very important UM. And the financing 169 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: structure and the equity structure can be you know, kind 170 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: of a mixed portfolio. Frankly, depending on the project. It 171 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: sounds like a lot to juggle though, you know, just 172 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: in terms of keeping it all keeping it all straight, 173 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: it is. It is a lot to juggle, but it's 174 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 1: it's a it's a ton of fun and I think 175 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: it's um for the group of us that are they're 176 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: doing it, it's really um a completely collaborative by design structure. 177 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: Uh so that are legal and finance and you know, 178 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: the the business side or the operations side is very 179 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: much embedded within the creative side as well. Everybody's working 180 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: to solve the issues of how do we get the 181 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: best creators, get the best storytellers be able to express 182 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: what we want to express in the most effective way 183 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: for us financially as well as creatively. There's you know, 184 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: like I'm harping on this on the streaming services, but 185 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: they are such a big force. Um. You know, there 186 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: there are some pretty astounding UM pay days happening now 187 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: for talent, for talent that isn't demand it you know, 188 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: it's it isn't. It's an incredible time for talent that 189 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: doesn't demand. It's also very challenging time for people to 190 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: work within budgets and in parameters because expectations are now 191 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: being set so high with you know, nine figure deals 192 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 1: being written by Netflix. Is that a challenge for you 193 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: at the development phase to attract to attract talent to us, 194 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: you know, an independent company at a time when you know, 195 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: when the largest companies are are chasing after big stars 196 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: with big checks. You know, look, I think it's always 197 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: hard and there's always challenges. But for us, we have 198 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: found is UM talent at that level knows where they 199 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 1: can go and get a big paycheck. To your point, 200 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: but what we're building is a platform where people can 201 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 1: come and actually build wealth and ownership and that's different 202 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 1: UM and we're seeing that a lot of the talent 203 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: that is coming and working with us and the creators 204 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: that were orienting around appreciate that UM and so yeah, 205 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 1: you can go there and get a big payday. There 206 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: are limits to the upside, there are limits to the 207 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: ownership UM and so ultimately sometimes that's great and that's 208 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: all you want, and sometimes you want to own it 209 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: and you want to be able to own all the 210 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:43,319 Speaker 1: rights along with us and really express it over years. UM, 211 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 1: that's a different model. That's a different world. That's where 212 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: we are. M It is a it is a fast 213 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: changing marketplace out there. UM. Let's talk about some of 214 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: your other the other divisions and other activities. I know 215 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: you've been putting a lot of resources into VR right now. 216 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: What do you think. I think VR is still a 217 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,079 Speaker 1: little bit of a nebulous market for a lot of people, 218 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: including me, who doesn't who I've tried those I've tried 219 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: the goggles. Oh boy, I just you know, I I 220 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: get dizzy so fast. It's it's amazing. But it's a 221 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: hard it's just hard for my old tired brain to 222 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 1: take in all. What do you think do you see 223 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: it becoming a more mainstream, more you know, UM, more 224 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: readily accessible type of entertainment experience for people? Yeah? I 225 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:33,359 Speaker 1: think that for us. UM, the way we are engaged 226 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: with VR and a R and just immersive content in 227 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 1: general is UM that we want to be in the space. 228 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: We want to get a better understanding of what it's 229 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: like to be makers in the space. UM, But nobody 230 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: knows where it's evolving or what the market is or 231 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: when the market will catch up. So we're very disciplined 232 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: and very careful UM to not get over our skis 233 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: on it, if you will. So UM we're engaged in 234 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: a variety of areas. I think what we're seeing is 235 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: that a lot of the UM best use for this 236 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,119 Speaker 1: is in location based entertainment. There is really a burgeoning 237 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: market UM for location based entertainment that is immersive and 238 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: VR oriented UM. So we've got a number of projects 239 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: UM in that space. We've got something with John Favreau 240 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: called Nomes and Goblins that we did a short We 241 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: released body little over a year ago, a short piece, 242 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: and then we're now building that out UM. And the 243 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: approach for something like that is both location based and 244 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: then home install UM. And there's Sony PlayStation in other 245 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: places where people are gravitating towards that content in that manner. 246 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: But I think the location based aspect of it is 247 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: really an interesting one, and it's interesting for us because 248 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: it's the confluence of UM the technology that VR and 249 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: a R has, but it's also got aspects of live theater, 250 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: which we're also involved in. So we have a project 251 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: that UM actually merges those two and is immersive theater 252 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: UM and that certainly will be location based UM. So 253 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: our immersive group is doing a lot of different kinds 254 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: of work in different areas, some with established creators who 255 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: want to work in this medium, some with new talent 256 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: who are native to VR UM and so for us, 257 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: it's really about again the very mixed portfolio, not being 258 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: tied to one strategy that you go along on and 259 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: then find out that the market shifted and whoops, you 260 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: picked the wrong one. So I would say we're being 261 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: very diligent, very careful, and trying to build relationships with 262 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: the makers in that space. Uh. And the the ability 263 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: to be innovative and really creative truly in it is 264 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: is what's so much fun. It sounds like a big 265 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: investment to be into that, into the actual technology to 266 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: be able to to craft VR experiences or VR films. Yeah, 267 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: I mean we are not, uh again like our overall platform, 268 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: We're We're agnostic. So whether it's a you know, a 269 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: vibe or a Hollo lens or whatever the technology is 270 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: that we want to use to UM either port to 271 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: or create the content in, we aren't owners of that. 272 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: We aren't investing in that we are really content creators. 273 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: That's what we are across all of the things that 274 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: we do. And so that's a different mindset and a 275 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: different um uh investment strategy. UM. And so for us, 276 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: really it is content creation across the platform and including 277 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: in VR and a R and immersive. Are you finding 278 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: that creative talent like the Jon Favreau's are coming to 279 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 1: you with I've got this great idea that I envisioning, 280 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: you know, envision of br component to this movie or 281 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 1: I envision of a full on VR entertainment experience. Are 282 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: people coming in the door now with pitches like that, Yes, 283 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: very much so. And UM there are also UM opportunities 284 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 1: that we have with i P that comes to us 285 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: through one portal. We want to make a film, we're 286 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 1: doing this thing, we have this i P and then 287 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 1: we have the ability to say, okay, well let's think 288 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: about it in a different medium as well. UM. So 289 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: for example, we have a show in our live group 290 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 1: UM which does a lot of i P driven musicals UM, 291 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,239 Speaker 1: a show called Red Roses, Green Gold UM. It is 292 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: the catalog of Jerry Garcia UM and Robert Hunter expressed 293 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: in a musical UM with a story that doesn't relate 294 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: to them, but using that music, which is the music 295 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 1: of The Grateful Dead. That show was done off Broadway. 296 00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: Uh last year UM in New York and our immersive 297 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: group worked with our theater group, our live group to 298 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: create a music video that was in VR that we 299 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: then took UM to south By Southwest and Yeah, exactly 300 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: it was The Grateful Dead and VR how perfect long 301 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: guitar jams. Uh. So it was great. It was a 302 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: wonderful way for those groups to work together collaboratively. It 303 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: was an interesting way to express that piece of theater 304 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: in another medium. UM, and the fans of the show 305 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: really appreciated the opportunity to see that music video in 306 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: that format. So we're really bringing things very much across 307 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,959 Speaker 1: the different pieces within the groups that are that are 308 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 1: assembled around Madison Welles Media. Is there a is there 309 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: a a business model for VR at this point or 310 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: is it still very experimental? Yeah, it's very experimental, which 311 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,239 Speaker 1: is why you have to be very UM. I think 312 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: you have to be diligent, you have to be disciplined, 313 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,199 Speaker 1: but you have to be willing to take some risk. UM. 314 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: It's certainly not without risk, no doubt about it. UM. 315 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 1: But you know that to me, that's independent filmmaking from 316 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: the beginning, right you you you need to think about 317 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: what's your ultimate goal and how are you going to 318 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: monetize this? But you have to be creative, so you 319 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: have to take some risk um, but you try to 320 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: mitigate the risk in any way you can. So it's 321 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: always that balance between you know, creative risk, innovation, a market. 322 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: Where is the market, what are the opportunities? And for 323 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: us having put this together Madison Wells Media, the entire 324 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: purpose is that this is a group of people oriented 325 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: around being nimble, um, being able to take calculated risk um. 326 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: And so that's you know, immersive is is no different, 327 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,439 Speaker 1: But yeah it isn't It is an area whose market 328 00:19:54,720 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: is not to find right now. Um. You you mentioned, 329 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: you know, being willing and having to have an appetite 330 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: for risk. As you talk to other financiers and I'm 331 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: sure deal with private equity and you know, investors, we 332 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: hear that there's a lot of investors that want to 333 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: put money into content. They see the you know, they 334 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: see the booming global demand, they see the appetite of 335 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,439 Speaker 1: the big streaming services. Is that true? Is that a 336 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: misperception in your experience right now in terms of, you know, 337 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 1: the ability to attract other investors to to content ventures, 338 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: to individual films or film slates. The sense is that 339 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: the kind of the slate business had really tapered off 340 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 1: in the last couple of years. Well, you know, I 341 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: don't I don't know if we were out there just 342 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: looking for film finance, I don't know what the world 343 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,239 Speaker 1: looks like now. Um, certainly on an individual basis, there 344 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: are a lot of people with a lot of money 345 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: that want to invest in movies because it's always been 346 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: and always will be fun and sexy and all those things. 347 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: Um we are um right now really I think an 348 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 1: interesting and and and we have had incoming phone calls, Um, 349 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: an interesting play for investors who are looking at a 350 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: bigger content company that isn't just film based. But um, yes, 351 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: we're finding there are people out there who are very 352 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 1: interested because the world has changed so much and the 353 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: ability to create content. You know, it's interesting are our 354 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: group is assembled around not just financing, but actually being 355 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: able to make the thing, whether it is the musical 356 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: or the film or the TV show. So the ability 357 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: to have both those sides the making of as well 358 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: as the financing and in some cases the direct distribution 359 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: of those things. Um is very attractive and is unique. Yeah, 360 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 1: it is very you know, it's rare that you have 361 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: all of those elements on in an independent outfit under 362 00:21:57,960 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: one roof. Yes, But I think it speaks also to 363 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: your longevity. How long I know, prior to m w M, 364 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: you were odd Lot Entertainment And remind me how long? 365 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: How long when did you start first start odd Lot 366 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: and in the in the business. Um, so odd Lot 367 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: itself UM started around is somewhere in that vicinity. Um, 368 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: but I've been you know, making film and um even 369 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: before that, making music videos and filmed content and music videos, 370 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: corporate films. You know, in the eighties, that was kind 371 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: of the thing everybody in New York City, which is 372 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 1: where I was building a small production company. You made 373 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: whatever anybody needed you to make, mostly in video back then, 374 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: so before everybody could make video on their iPhones exactly. 375 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: So I mean I did literally hundreds of you know, 376 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: this is the castor on the chair that this company makes, 377 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: and we need a video to sell those casters. So 378 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: we did hundreds of corporate films, which was great training 379 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: because like try and tell the story of the most 380 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: boring piece of equipment ever known to man. Interesting exactly, 381 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: So it was it was really it was good training. 382 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 1: And what was it that made you go into the 383 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: film business or into the production entertainment business in the 384 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: first place? Were you somebody who just grew up loving 385 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: films and TV? You know? It's funny, Um, I feel 386 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: like I didn't know going forward where it was all heading. 387 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: And at some point you turn around at a certain 388 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: age and you go, oh, that did all make sense. 389 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: But I didn't really realize that going forward. So oddly, No, 390 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: I didn't think I was going to always end up 391 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: in the film business. But I lived in Nepal during 392 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 1: college and did a thesis on cultural transmission through folk tales. 393 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: So somewhere in their stories have always apparently been important 394 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: to me. Um. And it was a meandering path that 395 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,239 Speaker 1: frankly got me here. Um. Because I didn't grow up 396 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: in this industry. I don't have relatives that we're in 397 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: this industry. Um. So I kind of came here very 398 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 1: much as an outsider and started in New York. Wow. 399 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: That's quite a that that's quite a rise. Good good 400 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: for you in in start in obviously starting out as 401 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: a filmmaker, but but blossoming into a business leader. UM, 402 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: I have to ask you did you find along the way, 403 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,679 Speaker 1: especially when you were starting, did you did you experience sexism? 404 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: Did you was it did you feel like people it 405 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: was hard for people to take you seriously or to 406 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 1: get a meeting because because you were g G and 407 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:44,360 Speaker 1: not George. Yeah, you know it's funny. Um. I am 408 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 1: sure that that happened, no doubt. UM. But I am 409 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 1: stubborn enough and focused enough, and grew up in a 410 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: family that was very male. So I don't think I 411 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,959 Speaker 1: ever put it in that frame or thought about it 412 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: that way. It's hard. What we do is hard, and 413 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: so I just knew it was hard, and so I 414 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: know I didn't get meetings and I wasn't in rooms 415 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,120 Speaker 1: I probably should have been in. I never attributed it 416 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: to my being a female per se um, and I 417 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: just figured it. Man, I had to push harder and 418 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: work harder. But I am sure looking back, Yeah, there 419 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: are jobs I didn't get. There are things I wasn't 420 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,120 Speaker 1: privy to. There were rooms I wasn't in. Um. And 421 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 1: now being in the position I am, and being a 422 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: female and being the age I am, Um, it's it's 423 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: great because I had the opportunity to help other people, 424 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,400 Speaker 1: whether they're women or not, UM to really bring them 425 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: into rooms where they should be and be able to 426 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: have their stories told and be able to participate. And 427 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: that feels great. That's a you know, certainly something that 428 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: that I think there's more awareness and recognition of the 429 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 1: need for that than ever before or and you know, 430 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: to your point, there's there have been a lot of 431 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: i think smaller entities and people, you know, efforts by 432 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: individuals to to open those doors. And it seems like 433 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: now there's that that awareness is so great that it 434 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,120 Speaker 1: you know that it may that it may start to change. Um. 435 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: My last question before I let you go, what would 436 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: you say? You know, even it's interesting you have, you know, 437 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 1: you have quite a bit of quite a bit of 438 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,959 Speaker 1: material and quite a bit of work going on. What 439 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: would you say do you think is the most untapped 440 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: or the richest opportunity in the entertainment business right now? 441 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 1: Mhm wow, that's an interesting question and there's so many 442 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: different ways to go with that. One of them if yeah, Um, 443 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,640 Speaker 1: I think for us what's really exciting is um we 444 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: are are because we're in so many different areas. The 445 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: thing that's really fun that we're finding really enjoyable as 446 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: a group and I and enjoying the challenge, UM is 447 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: to uh find stories I P. Things that we can 448 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: really grab ahold of and express in a variety of ways. 449 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: Whether it's through our universe division, which is world building UM, 450 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: not film first strategy, so expressing as podcasts or graphic 451 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: novels are a number of different ways. So to me, 452 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: it's the being able to tell stories in a variety 453 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 1: of ways and build that franchise and build that I 454 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 1: P up from the ground yourself. UM. We are working 455 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 1: with an artist from Chicago named Hebrew Brantley hebrews awesome, 456 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: and we're really working with him on some characters that 457 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: he has to build that world and then to be 458 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: able to express those characters in a variety of ways. 459 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 1: That's a ton of fun and potentially enormously lucrative to 460 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 1: build your own franchise that you can take across your 461 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: own system UM and distry reviewed. So that I think 462 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: is an interesting opportunity and and interesting challenge to build 463 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: those kinds of franchises being independent and working with the 464 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: creators to own it together. When you think about you know, 465 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: if you put your mind back to your New York 466 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: days making making industrial films about castors on chairs, and 467 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 1: you look at the media world today and then just 468 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:26,159 Speaker 1: so many avenues for storytelling and platforms. It's got to 469 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 1: be It's just it's got to be such a night 470 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: and day uh marketplace now in terms of just in 471 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: terms of how much things have grown and expanded. Yeah, 472 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: you know, it's funny. Um. So I'm from Chicago and 473 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: I live in Chicago. Really even though my company is 474 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: based in l A and everybody's here. Um, and because 475 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: I grew up as a film focused filmmaker person, people 476 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: will still say to me, so, you know, what's your 477 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,239 Speaker 1: next film? What do you work on? And it's so 478 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: singular and the reality is now it's gotten so not 479 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: as to us everybody. There's so many ways to work 480 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: on so many different things. So it's really not what's 481 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: the one thing, it's what are the many? Um, And 482 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: that's that's kind of exciting. I'm enjoying this moment very much. Great. Well, 483 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: we will stay tuned and we're gonna look for those 484 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: location based VR installations. I'm so curious as to see 485 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: who's going to crack that code, it'll be you know, 486 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: it's it's. It's one of the new horizons to just 487 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: to really watch out for. It sounds like you're really 488 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: in it. It's being cracked as we speak. Thank you 489 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: so much, gg, thank you sing thanks for listening. Be 490 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: sure to tune in next week for another episode of 491 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: Strictly Business.