Speaker 1: Hi, Brian Hik. Now, this is very exciting. We're on location,
Speaker 1: which we don't do that often, but we're in Aspen, Colorado,
Speaker 1: beautiful Colorado, at the Aspen Ideas Festival. And when we
Speaker 1: found out that Mitch Landrew was going to be here,
Speaker 1: we immediately thought, what a great podcast guest, because he's
Speaker 1: very much been in the news of late, not only
Speaker 1: because he's head of the U S Conference of Mayors,
Speaker 1: but also because that incredible speech he gave about taking
Speaker 1: down the Confederate statues in New Orleans. And he comes
Speaker 1: from a really storied New Orleans and Louisiana family. His
Speaker 1: dad was the last white mayor of New Orleans. Before him,
Speaker 1: he was known as a real progressive on civil rights.
Speaker 1: He desegregated the city. His sister was a senator from
Speaker 1: Louisiana for many years. He's the fifth of nine kids.
Speaker 1: He's got a lot of interesting stuff to see. He's
Speaker 1: a music of theater nuts. So he had me at
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ Superstar. So we have so much fun talking
Speaker 1: to Mitch. He told me I could call him Mitch
Speaker 1: instead of Mr. Mayor. Honestly, you were a little disappointed
Speaker 1: that he didn't go full man of La Manchro No
Speaker 1: I really wanted that. You know, I made up for
Speaker 1: his shyness by belting out a few of those songs myself.
Speaker 1: But we talked to him about life in the big easy,
Speaker 1: and we talked to him about climate change, and of
Speaker 1: course we talked to him about that incredibly well received,
Speaker 1: an eloquent speech. So here he is, Mitch landru I
Speaker 1: became the president of U S Conference of Mayors yesterday.
Speaker 1: Congratulation so much. And but I'm really intent in this
Speaker 1: time of getting people to think that although we think
Speaker 1: about Washington all the time, and it's appropriate that we
Speaker 1: do so, the national policy doesn't just get set in Washington.
Speaker 1: Mayors across the country really doing innovative things. We're learning
Speaker 1: from each other and we're creating national policies from local
Speaker 1: action and that's really exciting. And before we talk more
Speaker 1: about the Conference of Mayors and about that extraordinary speech
Speaker 1: you made on May nineteenth about Confederate memorials coming down
Speaker 1: in New Orleans, I want to give our listeners a
Speaker 1: better sense of who you are and where you come from.
Speaker 1: Is that from the greatest place in where all New Orleans, Louisiana,
Speaker 1: The soul of America. You're you're the fifth of nine kids.
Speaker 1: Your dad was the story real quick. My father was
Speaker 1: one of two children. His mother had a third grade education.
Speaker 1: His father worked as an employee of the city in
Speaker 1: the public service building. He turned the lights on and
Speaker 1: off in the city. He grew up in a house
Speaker 1: that was seventeen feet wide, literally slept in a storehouse.
Speaker 1: He he found a way to get himself through Jesuit
Speaker 1: High School and then Loyola Way. He met my mother
Speaker 1: and uh, they fell in love and they wanted up
Speaker 1: getting married, and they went right away to the Pentagon
Speaker 1: when my dad served, and in the next eleven years
Speaker 1: they had nine children. So my oldest sister is Mary,
Speaker 1: who people remember is now as the United States Senator,
Speaker 1: but sure appreciates she's bossy. But there were nine of
Speaker 1: us and we grew up in the first integrated neighborhood
Speaker 1: in the city of New Orleans. My dad got himself
Speaker 1: into the state legislation, didn't know anybody, and this first
Speaker 1: act in office was to vote against the governor's plan
Speaker 1: to keep the schools segregated in the state. He was
Speaker 1: one of two people and uh, on that day that
Speaker 1: he voted for that Leander Perez, who was a great racist.
Speaker 1: Shaff suck his finger in his chest and said you're dead.
Speaker 1: And from that moment, from there until today. You know,
Speaker 1: our family kind of grew up in the Broadmoor neighborhood
Speaker 1: of New Orleans. As I said, my mother had nine
Speaker 1: children in eleven years. And he was known and and
Speaker 1: is known as a hero of civil He was the
Speaker 1: one that integrated. That's true. Joined it's because we grew
Speaker 1: up how we grew up in Whale. We grew up
Speaker 1: in a middle class neighborhood. We both we all went
Speaker 1: to parochial schools, the same school. We walked to school
Speaker 1: every day, we caught the bus to school. All of
Speaker 1: us have gone on to you know, grow up and
Speaker 1: get married. We have thirty eight children between us on
Speaker 1: the landry side of the family. You give make got
Speaker 1: to make sure you get you get to the table first,
Speaker 1: I would say that. And so we grew up in
Speaker 1: the city of New Orleans, and we've been part of
Speaker 1: the city for a long time. And uh, and it's
Speaker 1: been a great experience. And politics are sort of in
Speaker 1: your I mean, it's just you marry and your dad
Speaker 1: because your mom Verna said, I told you, Mitchell, you've
Speaker 1: got politics and the Mary Well, the reason she says
Speaker 1: that is because I was a very bad little boy,
Speaker 1: and as I told you, she had nine kids, and
Speaker 1: I kept running outside. So she she chained me to
Speaker 1: the front porch with a leash. She did, she did.
Speaker 1: It's terrible and she didn't. She actually tied me to
Speaker 1: the front porch and so I stood out there all day.
Speaker 1: We were planning because we all played in the streets,
Speaker 1: so I wasn't by myself and U she said, that's
Speaker 1: what you learned how to tell people hello, Okay, you
Speaker 1: kept trying to get them to let you go. Because
Speaker 1: she was managed to survive and so she she's mortified
Speaker 1: by that story, but it's true. But she's otherwise a
Speaker 1: lovely woman and a great mother and a great grammar
Speaker 1: as a chad of thirty eight kids. Wow. One of
Speaker 1: the fun things we learned about you, Mitch is that
Speaker 1: you were really into musical theater when you were in
Speaker 1: high school and the East start in Anna You're this
Speaker 1: does extensive research, and you were in Jesus Christ Superstars
Speaker 1: and tell me who it was and what were you
Speaker 1: in Jesus You were Jesus. That's the part you want.
Speaker 1: You want the title because he has the best song.
Speaker 1: He does. So you're Jesus Christ. You were the great
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ proved to me that you're awful. Walk across
Speaker 1: by the way. You've got to sing something for us,
Speaker 1: no little to dream, the impossible dream, the impossible dream.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that whole thing. I'll come on one more.
Speaker 1: I know the worst to fight, Right to fight the
Speaker 1: unbeatable foe. Right, that's where to bear with unbearable, Sorry,
Speaker 1: to go with a brave They're not go. This is
Speaker 1: my quest. Right to fight, no matter how hopeless, no
Speaker 1: matter how far, to strive for the right to be
Speaker 1: doing great. You're discovering a real musical theater junkie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you like I'll tell you how this happened. Actually,
Speaker 1: And in seventh grade a new nun came to St.
Speaker 1: Matthias School named was Sister Jane, and she decided to
Speaker 1: have a Christmas cantata. And everybody tried, I don't want bed,
Speaker 1: but I had tonsilitis. I got my tonsil was taken out.
Speaker 1: Would you know when I came back, I could actually sing?
Speaker 1: And so she said you're in it, and I saying
Speaker 1: it came upon a midnight clear and everybody thought, well,
Speaker 1: he can kind of sing. And then about a month later,
Speaker 1: my mother and father took me to the theater. It
Speaker 1: was right around when The Jungle Book was coming out,
Speaker 1: which I was mesmerized by, and then I saw Oliver
Speaker 1: and then I thought, that is what I want to do.
Speaker 1: I want to be I'm going to Broadway. And I
Speaker 1: actually did theater at Jazzuba for four years. I became
Speaker 1: a trot out for a professional show and I was
Speaker 1: sixteen and got my equity card and started doing professional work.
Speaker 1: And besides Man of Flamanche and Jesus Christ Superstar, were
Speaker 1: you ever in Oliver? No, I never got to Oliver.
Speaker 1: I'm crushed by it. But but I attend the Catholic
Speaker 1: University of American got a double degree in theater and
Speaker 1: political science. We knew that. And then you went on
Speaker 1: to loyal like that. Well what happened was I really
Speaker 1: wanted to. When I finished, I had gone on a
Speaker 1: couple of USO tours and when I finished, my father said,
Speaker 1: you know, it's really a tough business. You ought to
Speaker 1: think about having something to fall back on. So why
Speaker 1: don't you come home and go to law school? And
Speaker 1: if after you finished law school you want to go back,
Speaker 1: then go. And I went to Loyola Law School, and
Speaker 1: of course I met my soon to be wife on
Speaker 1: the first day of law school. We got married, then
Speaker 1: we had five beautiful children and the rest of this history.
Speaker 1: So I'm stuck. So I really want to be an actor.
Speaker 1: I don't this politics stuff is. Well, maybe maybe you
Speaker 1: could have a second career. That's where I'm going. That's
Speaker 1: where I'm heading too. I'm going to Broadway if they'll
Speaker 1: have me. But I think maybebe I can only mop
Speaker 1: up the stage now. Well, you know, I think there
Speaker 1: is some theater in politics, right because they're in in
Speaker 1: a positive way. And one of the things we really
Speaker 1: wanted to talk to you about today, Mitch, is that
Speaker 1: extraordinary speech that that Brian meant and that got so
Speaker 1: much attention. A lovely op ed by Frank Brooney in
Speaker 1: The New York Times. In fact, I was going to
Speaker 1: read the uh the first part of it. The title
Speaker 1: is Mitch Land who reminds us that eloquence still exists?
Speaker 1: And Frank wrote it to interview. Well, listen, I I
Speaker 1: believe in giving props where props are deserved, and he writes,
Speaker 1: these are hard days. Of course, language of tweets and
Speaker 1: cat calls that appeal to the worst in us, not
Speaker 1: the best. Maybe that's why a big, sweeping, old fashioned
Speaker 1: speech delivered in New Orleans on Friday made such an
Speaker 1: impression on me. It was a reprieve, It was an
Speaker 1: antidote at let's talk about why you gave that speech.
Speaker 1: It was all about taking down four Confederate statues. But
Speaker 1: can you give us the context, because this was a
Speaker 1: combination of a very long process getting New Orleans to
Speaker 1: face It's not so it would careful history is that history,
Speaker 1: But generally from the day that I was born a
Speaker 1: couple of months later was when my father took that
Speaker 1: first vote. So really, our entire political life, aside from
Speaker 1: trying to make government work well for people and trying
Speaker 1: to solve difficult problems, some of which have not yet
Speaker 1: been solved, around the kind of things that we talked
Speaker 1: about every day, from healthcare to education to crime, all
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, race has been a very important
Speaker 1: part of our need to move New Orleans. It could
Speaker 1: this could be related to other places, but this is
Speaker 1: where I grew up, so this is my wheelhouse, and
Speaker 1: the South to a better place. So there's always been
Speaker 1: this concept of the new South, and well we never
Speaker 1: really got there versus the old South, and why other
Speaker 1: parts of the country were growing and why we warn't.
Speaker 1: And when I became the mayor after haven't been a
Speaker 1: legislator for sixteen years and lieutenant governor for six I
Speaker 1: had a very strong desire based on what Mary had
Speaker 1: done and my dad had done, to to really have
Speaker 1: a conversation about race and for the city to think
Speaker 1: about not building the city back the way it was
Speaker 1: because it Katrina didn't cause all of our problems. It
Speaker 1: didn't create our education problems are raised problems problems. It well,
Speaker 1: here's what it did. It made everything that was real
Speaker 1: that much more noticeable. So that which was beautiful and
Speaker 1: rich and deep and made it much more so. And
Speaker 1: and the kind of things that we saw after Katrina,
Speaker 1: people helping each other just really is a is a
Speaker 1: message to the rest of the country about even in
Speaker 1: our darkest times, we can find unity, which is why
Speaker 1: I'm hopeful about the country. But it also put a
Speaker 1: magnifying glass on a really dirty stuff and the nasty
Speaker 1: stuff and the bad stuff. And so as we started
Speaker 1: rebuilding the city physically, it's easy to build a city
Speaker 1: back physically than to repair of city soul. And so
Speaker 1: the mantra that we use preparing for our three hundred anniversary,
Speaker 1: which is next year, was to build a city back
Speaker 1: the way it always should have been if we would
Speaker 1: have gotten it right the first time. So that's not
Speaker 1: just a physical thing. So if you come to New
Speaker 1: Orleans now, we've rebuilt thirty two new schools, or a
Speaker 1: bunch of health care centers, were building a new airport,
Speaker 1: we're building a new riverfront. The issue then got to
Speaker 1: be about the public spaces, and this came from Went
Speaker 1: and Went and Marcelo, So I said, Went, and I
Speaker 1: need you to help me carry the three on the universary.
Speaker 1: He said, do you know Lewis Armstrong left because of
Speaker 1: those statutes? And I said what statutes? He said, I want,
Speaker 1: I need you to think about those statutes. And I said,
Speaker 1: when what statutes are talking about? He said, Roberty Lee.
Speaker 1: I said, what's your problem with Roberty Lee? He said,
Speaker 1: have you ever thought about who he is, what he
Speaker 1: stands for, why they're there? And I said, you know, honestly,
Speaker 1: when I never really did. I was kind of like
Speaker 1: everybody else. He said, well, look, you think about them.
Speaker 1: So I started thinking about him, and it became fairly
Speaker 1: obvious to me, fairly quickly that those particular statutes, and
Speaker 1: I picked those four for a reason, will put up
Speaker 1: by the same group of people over the same period
Speaker 1: of time, for a specific reason, which was to send
Speaker 1: a clear message that even though the Confederacy lost the war,
Speaker 1: they were still in control, because what sixteen years after
Speaker 1: the end of the Civil War. Yes, way, they will
Speaker 1: put up substantially after, and they will put up with
Speaker 1: a specific purpose. And the specific purpose was enunciated when
Speaker 1: they put them up, which was too demn me straight
Speaker 1: that the South was on the right side, that even
Speaker 1: though the United States of America one, that they were wrong,
Speaker 1: and that the South was not going to concede. And
Speaker 1: it was to send a message to who was still
Speaker 1: in control, and that white supremacy was superior, specifically to
Speaker 1: African Americans. We were genetically and in every other way
Speaker 1: and spiritually superior. Now in a city that six African
Speaker 1: American forcing African Americans to walk by public property that
Speaker 1: they own, having statutes standing above them in reverence seemed
Speaker 1: to me to be perverse. It was property Lee and Robberty,
Speaker 1: left Buregard, Jefferson Davis or the three. And then there
Speaker 1: was another monument called the Liberty Monument that was put
Speaker 1: up in the eight nineties to celebrate, no, to celebrate
Speaker 1: the fact that a number of police officers were killed
Speaker 1: who were trying to protect a buy Ratio police department.
Speaker 1: So it was actually done to honor the people who
Speaker 1: killed the police officers for the wrong reason. And it
Speaker 1: was put up by the clan. And I want to
Speaker 1: give our listeners a sense of the speech if they
Speaker 1: haven't heard it. These statutes are not just stone and metal.
Speaker 1: They're not just innocent remembrances of a benign history. These
Speaker 1: monuments celebrate a fictional, santitized Confederacy, ignoring the death, ignoring
Speaker 1: the enslavement, ignoring the terror that it actually stood for.
Speaker 1: Why do you think for so long we were okay
Speaker 1: with all of this Confederate celebration. Listen, I think that
Speaker 1: race is really hard for us. It's hard for everybody
Speaker 1: to talk about. And I've said many times on this issue,
Speaker 1: we have made a lot of progress. I mean, John Lewis,
Speaker 1: will remind us of that every day, who is one
Speaker 1: of the great heroes of our time. But when I finished,
Speaker 1: and this whole notion of of aspiring to a more
Speaker 1: perfect union is something that Americans really ought to think
Speaker 1: about on a regular basis given this last election. And
Speaker 1: by the way, we started this well before the election,
Speaker 1: so it really didn't contemplate anything having to do with
Speaker 1: the politics of what exists today. But even before that,
Speaker 1: we were really thinking about how the country could come
Speaker 1: together on issues of criminal justice, equity, police community relations,
Speaker 1: and just straight up racial stuff that we had. And
Speaker 1: it started it occurred to me that the way we
Speaker 1: curate our public spaces either informs that in a positive
Speaker 1: way or in a negative way. And if you just
Speaker 1: think from a mayoral perspective, and we're all into design
Speaker 1: and what our cities look like and how you build beautiful,
Speaker 1: world class cities, why would you have a public space
Speaker 1: that's the most central thing sending a message that has
Speaker 1: never been true about your city. And so as we
Speaker 1: began this introspection, the people of the city started thinking, Wow,
Speaker 1: you know, this is a new awakening that we're having,
Speaker 1: so let's deal with it. So this just wasn't about
Speaker 1: the statutes. The statutes are much or just kind of
Speaker 1: a physical way to talk about a much deeper problems. Badly,
Speaker 1: how many times we walk by things that we don't
Speaker 1: notice every day. They're so symbolic and emblematic of sort
Speaker 1: of race in general. I think one of the most
Speaker 1: moving parts of the speech was when you talk about
Speaker 1: a friend, uh and how he would explain this to
Speaker 1: his fifth grade daughter. Let's listen to that. Another friend
Speaker 1: asked me to consider these full monuments from the perspective
Speaker 1: of an African American mother and father trying to explain
Speaker 1: to their fifth grade daughter, why Robert E. Lee sat
Speaker 1: the top of our city. Can you do it? Can
Speaker 1: you do it? Can you look into the eyes of
Speaker 1: this young girl and convince her that Robert E. Lee
Speaker 1: is there to encourage her. How much pushback did you
Speaker 1: get for this, because I imagine there were some people
Speaker 1: who were pretty hoping mat huge, huge, Well again, you know,
Speaker 1: I had been thinking about this. Meant three three and
Speaker 1: a half years ago was when I think I had
Speaker 1: the first conversation with It might have been three years ago,
Speaker 1: so as well before the election. It was well before
Speaker 1: South Carolina. The city had been engaged in racial reconciliation
Speaker 1: discussions that we put together called the Welcome Table, where
Speaker 1: people of color and whites met and talked in small groups.
Speaker 1: So this has been kind of part of what we did.
Speaker 1: But then when South Carolina happened and Nicki Haley and
Speaker 1: the leaders did such a wonderful thing of taking that
Speaker 1: flag down in such a beautiful way, um, I said
Speaker 1: to myself, now is the time to call the question
Speaker 1: publicly about these monuments and basically said something really simple,
Speaker 1: which is, I think it's time for us to have
Speaker 1: a conversation about this. Well you would have thought that,
Speaker 1: I mean it was. It really got rough. So we
Speaker 1: had a bunch of community meetings that were all very aggressive,
Speaker 1: and then as soon as the legislator, as soon as
Speaker 1: the city council vote had taken them down, lawsuits began.
Speaker 1: And so it took a two and a half year
Speaker 1: process with seven different courts, federal, state, and local, and
Speaker 1: thirteen different judges to confirm that we actually had the
Speaker 1: authority to do what we were doing. Do you get
Speaker 1: a lot of people angry on the streets, like, what's
Speaker 1: the worst thing someone has said to you? Well, there's
Speaker 1: a beautiful park, in New Orleans. I rode around on
Speaker 1: my bike every morning, and it is not uncommon for
Speaker 1: people in that park to yell at me, like, get
Speaker 1: out of this park. This is not your park. You're
Speaker 1: a dictator. We hate you. We hope that you've stopped
Speaker 1: being mayor tomorrow. There's actually one particular woman that does
Speaker 1: this the other day, does this all the time to me,
Speaker 1: which was really curious because when I went to church
Speaker 1: the other day, she was actually a eucharistic minister. What yeah, So,
Speaker 1: I mean it's it really got hostile and bad. Now
Speaker 1: not everybody I have to be it just this is
Speaker 1: really clol I know my city really well. Most of
Speaker 1: the people in the city wanted to take these down,
Speaker 1: but as you can say, this is a national issue,
Speaker 1: so people came from across the country into the city
Speaker 1: to use us as an example for us. So the
Speaker 1: alt right was there, you know, and a couple of
Speaker 1: other groups, and it got really dangerous and it required
Speaker 1: us to take these things down because of security reasons.
Speaker 1: Three of them at night, and then we had to
Speaker 1: take Roberty Lee down during the day for the same reason,
Speaker 1: security reasons because of the electrical wires. But it required
Speaker 1: us to be very vigilant because subsequent to the election,
Speaker 1: the temperature in the country has gotten really hot. We've
Speaker 1: gotten worse at talking to each other, and it wasn't
Speaker 1: easy to do. But I think after the speech to
Speaker 1: that credit, a lot of people have come up to
Speaker 1: me and said, you know, I really wasn't down with this,
Speaker 1: but now I get it and I understand. But there
Speaker 1: will be some people who will never forgive. And it's
Speaker 1: one of these things that it's it's like abortion, or
Speaker 1: it's like the death penalty, or it's like war in peace.
Speaker 1: It is a seminal issue that if someone you know
Speaker 1: is on the other side of it, no matter where
Speaker 1: you are, it's like, that's a defining moment, and you know,
Speaker 1: you stole a lot history and I'll never be for you.
Speaker 1: And I think for a lot of people it leads
Speaker 1: to a series of questions like where do you draw
Speaker 1: the line which people are okay to leave up and
Speaker 1: which people do you have to take down? I mean,
Speaker 1: do we do we tear down the Jefferson memorial because
Speaker 1: he was Actually I don't think it's that complicated. I
Speaker 1: think that you cannot go back and relitigate whether a
Speaker 1: human being was a good human being or not? Um.
Speaker 1: All of us come to life with our own faults.
Speaker 1: And do you just watch people to confession as Catholics
Speaker 1: health the time? Do you judge people by the standards
Speaker 1: of their time or our time? Well, I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't know that that's the issue either. In this instance,
Speaker 1: it is absolutely clear that you cannot rewrite history. History
Speaker 1: is history. The monument to down right, but the Civil
Speaker 1: War still took place, so we didn't need race history.
Speaker 1: What we did do, though, is we course corrected something
Speaker 1: that a mayor did in that was wrong, which was
Speaker 1: to put in a place of reverence a statute that
Speaker 1: promoted a cause that denied humanity to millions of Americans.
Speaker 1: That act was wrong. We've got a lot more to
Speaker 1: talk about with Mitch Landrew, the mayor of New Orleans.
Speaker 1: Right after this New Orleans as he says, New Orleans.
Speaker 1: And now we're back with Mayor Mitche Landrew talking to
Speaker 1: him from Aspen. I know Brian wants to talk a
Speaker 1: lot about cities and climate change, but I just want
Speaker 1: to put a button on this because I'm curious, Mitch,
Speaker 1: have Mayorlandrew, you have other have have other Um mayors,
Speaker 1: have other governors, have other leaders in the Deep South
Speaker 1: contacted you? Are they wrestling with these same issues or
Speaker 1: would you like them to more? Well, you know, again,
Speaker 1: every city and every group of people take their own
Speaker 1: You're being very diplomatic, but no, no, what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I mean this seriously. I didn't like people not from
Speaker 1: New Orleans tell New Orleans what to do. We had
Speaker 1: a right to determine with our own property what we
Speaker 1: thought was appropriate. I will say to the people of
Speaker 1: America very clearly, though we clearly have an issue with race,
Speaker 1: we also have one with class, and we also have
Speaker 1: it around a whole bunch of stuff. And we don't
Speaker 1: talk to each other well about the things that divide us.
Speaker 1: I happen to think they are a great source of strength,
Speaker 1: and I think it weakens us when we divide ourselves
Speaker 1: the way we are and we can't even have a
Speaker 1: an adult conversation, so to the extent that it's a
Speaker 1: conversation starter. Yeah, start the conversation, but you have got
Speaker 1: to recognize, like white people need to recognize that Frican
Speaker 1: Americans were horribly offended by going past those monuments. Listen,
Speaker 1: I'm not judging anybody I had the same problem, and
Speaker 1: until went and told me about it, it never really
Speaker 1: occurred to me to think about it. But once I
Speaker 1: started thinking about it, and once I saw the truth,
Speaker 1: then I was like, all right, there's some things that
Speaker 1: I can admit without having to feel awful that maybe
Speaker 1: I had somebody that fought on the wrong side of
Speaker 1: the war. I mean, nobody today is responsible for anything
Speaker 1: that happened during the Civil War in that regard, and
Speaker 1: you can't spend your life talking about whose fault it was.
Speaker 1: I guess if people get excited about that, they can.
Speaker 1: I can tell you whose responsibility it is to fix it.
Speaker 1: It's ours. Some folks have called me and said, look,
Speaker 1: I've thought about this, and I want the monuments and
Speaker 1: send them to me. Some people have sent have said, uh,
Speaker 1: look I thought about this and I don't want to
Speaker 1: go as far as you went. How can you curate
Speaker 1: these by being additive? Which is interesting, and you can
Speaker 1: do that. And some people have said, yeah, I want
Speaker 1: to do that too, and I said, good luck. But
Speaker 1: you know, really think a lot about this and be
Speaker 1: careful and be thoughtful, and by the way, be hard
Speaker 1: on the problem, soft on the people. There's a way
Speaker 1: to get through this that makes us better. And although
Speaker 1: it was hard in New Orleans, I have the full
Speaker 1: confidence that the people in New Orleans are gonna get
Speaker 1: past this and we're gonna be a better city because
Speaker 1: of it. So, Mr Mary, the last time before your speech,
Speaker 1: New Orleans was really in the national spotlight was around Katrina,
Speaker 1: which you referenced earlier. I was looking at some of
Speaker 1: these stats in preparing for this interview. I was really stunned.
Speaker 1: You know, more than eight percent of the city flooded,
Speaker 1: seventy billion dollars of damage, more than a hundred thousand
Speaker 1: people homeless. But then I found another stat that that
Speaker 1: staggered me, maybe even more, which is that, according to
Speaker 1: one study, which was a reputable group, a third of
Speaker 1: New Orleans population was going to have to flee by
Speaker 1: because of rising sea levels. Basically in my daughter's lifetime.
Speaker 1: They're not there may not be a New Orleans as
Speaker 1: we know it today. What can cities or even states
Speaker 1: do on their own to fix this problem? I mean,
Speaker 1: is it too late? Are we doomed to have to
Speaker 1: manage the sens this? Well, it's getting too late. It's
Speaker 1: not too late yet. I was in Miami yesterday, and
Speaker 1: Mary Levine has talked a lot about Miami. Everybody's focus
Speaker 1: has always been in New Orleans, and New Orleans said, look,
Speaker 1: you know, we didn't we didn't get hit by Katrina
Speaker 1: because we stay up lade drinking too much. You know.
Speaker 1: Although because most of your cities, some people thought that
Speaker 1: we were since city, and you know, God visited evil
Speaker 1: upon our heads because of that, because well it was
Speaker 1: we We are the canary in the coal mine. There
Speaker 1: are tons of places around this country that are below yeah,
Speaker 1: that are below sea level as a matter of fact,
Speaker 1: whether Washington Monument is that hill is a berm that
Speaker 1: is supposed to be there for flood protection. And of
Speaker 1: course people now have seen as a result of Sandy,
Speaker 1: unfortunately that the Northeast is vulnerable. When you look at
Speaker 1: the at the list of the most vulnerable cities, New
Speaker 1: Orleans is not at the top. Miami is there, and
Speaker 1: by the way, a ton of other places. So this
Speaker 1: idea of us being threatened by sea level rise is real,
Speaker 1: it's imminent, and it's that outdoor step now New Orleans.
Speaker 1: As a couple of other problems, One we have coastly
Speaker 1: erosion that is happening quickly for a lot of different reasons.
Speaker 1: Some is because the Mississippi River is levied and the
Speaker 1: silt is not moving off into it naturally. Some is
Speaker 1: because the island gas pipelines cut through it oreland gas
Speaker 1: that we produced for the rest of the country. And
Speaker 1: some is just sinkage. So when you put all four
Speaker 1: of those things together, we have what I would consider
Speaker 1: to be a slow moving but imminent threat, which is
Speaker 1: why we're really focused on this. We've built a huge
Speaker 1: levy system, but if we don't get in hands around
Speaker 1: this climate issue, New Orleans as you know it, or
Speaker 1: at least south of New Orleans, could cease to exist
Speaker 1: by so could Miami, and so could a lot of
Speaker 1: other places. So it's not just such, which is why
Speaker 1: mayors have been so engaged in this, from the Kyoto
Speaker 1: Protocols to the Paris. Of course, we had a thousand
Speaker 1: mayors from around the world in Paris. So in President
Speaker 1: Trump erroneously wrongly said we're not going to stay. Bad
Speaker 1: mistake for the country. We said we and abide by that.
Speaker 1: We have to keep going. We're not bound by the
Speaker 1: federal government. We can create a national policy by acting locally.
Speaker 1: And so mayors across America, Republicans, Democrat Jim brainded from
Speaker 1: like Indiana Republican, I mean republican red state said, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm into this, and you know a lot of
Speaker 1: others have too. So we're actually trying to do the
Speaker 1: best we can reduce our carbon footprint and to get
Speaker 1: ahead of this so that we don't get so far behind.
Speaker 1: And that's just something that mayors have decided to do
Speaker 1: because we can't we have to govern. We can't wait,
Speaker 1: can you do it without the federal government? I think
Speaker 1: we can't. I mean, it would be much better to
Speaker 1: have them with us. But there's a lot of things
Speaker 1: we can do without the federal government. If two hundred
Speaker 1: and sixty cities get together and decide, look, we're gonna
Speaker 1: run a certain fleet of buses, We're gonna have a
Speaker 1: certain number of bike lanes. We're gonna retrofit all of
Speaker 1: our buildings with you know, better stuff. We're gonna work
Speaker 1: on the utilities that reregulate in what the UH energy
Speaker 1: mixes that's coming in. There's quite a lot that we
Speaker 1: can do. So why do you think President Trump made
Speaker 1: the decision he did. I mean, I know I know
Speaker 1: the reasons he gave were demonstrably false. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't. I have no idea. I quit,
Speaker 1: I quit trying to figure it out. I can't. I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't spend any time worrying about that, other than
Speaker 1: saying that's a shame, because that's a mistake for the country.
Speaker 1: We're just gonna move past them, and I think that's
Speaker 1: happening a lot. You know, again, we would prefer our
Speaker 1: mayors of America want a constructive relationship with who's ever
Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. But we cannot wait, and we're
Speaker 1: not waiting on anything. We're doing our own stuff on infrastructure,
Speaker 1: We're doing our best we can we can on healthcare,
Speaker 1: and then we're gonna solve as many problems as we can.
Speaker 1: Mayor Bloomberg yesterday announced the two hundred million dollar Challenge
Speaker 1: grant across all cities so that we can share best
Speaker 1: practices with each other. And we think the country can
Speaker 1: learn the federal government can learn a lot from the
Speaker 1: innovation that's happening in cities across America. He's been a
Speaker 1: pretty phenomenal leader. He's just incredible. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of people give a lot of money away
Speaker 1: for a lot of causes, and that's all wonderful. But
Speaker 1: he has really focused his attention on making government work
Speaker 1: better and then creating better partnerships from the private sector
Speaker 1: to the government. And you know, the guy just is
Speaker 1: he's gold and he put his money where his mouth is.
Speaker 1: Not everybody agrees on all of his host stances, but
Speaker 1: that's you know, He's given May's room to run. And
Speaker 1: by the way, he helps cities at a Republican Democrat
Speaker 1: that are left, that are right. He's into innovation and change,
Speaker 1: and he's given us a chance to compete with each other,
Speaker 1: which we love to do, you know, and we and
Speaker 1: we share best practices all the time we have. I
Speaker 1: know you have to go to a dinner, but just
Speaker 1: I have to ask you. You You didn't mention Donald Trump
Speaker 1: in your your now quite spa? No? No, But he
Speaker 1: takes up enough air tone, don't you think? What do
Speaker 1: you think of him? I think he's mostly wrong. I
Speaker 1: just think he's mostly wrong. There are some admirable qualities
Speaker 1: about him, actually, which makes it's so hard to watch
Speaker 1: him do so poorly. Are admirable. Well, first of all,
Speaker 1: he's he's got really um good instincts about other people
Speaker 1: that serve him well in a negative way. You know,
Speaker 1: you saw him take down a lot of different opponents
Speaker 1: that he should have never taken down because he's got
Speaker 1: an animal instinct for finding people's weaknesses that he can exploit.
Speaker 1: And so, you know, I say it's admirable. It's kind
Speaker 1: of a weird thing. Like when you see a war
Speaker 1: you're fighting, You're like, that guy's got special skills because
Speaker 1: everybody wants that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Speaker 1: That exactly what I'm saying is in a in a
Speaker 1: warrior kind of way, you look at that and you go, wow,
Speaker 1: that's impressive. That guy got to be president the United States.
Speaker 1: So you can't completely dismiss that. When people say he's
Speaker 1: got no talent, that's not true. This is not a
Speaker 1: man that's not smart. He is smart and and he
Speaker 1: is he is tough in a bad way. And in
Speaker 1: my opinion, his his unwillingness to think deeply about things
Speaker 1: causes him to be half wrong all the time. And
Speaker 1: when you're half wrong, you're never right because you know,
Speaker 1: you never really think about things clearly and deeply. And
Speaker 1: it's very, very troubling. I think that he has, in
Speaker 1: a demonstrable way, made people who shouldn't agree with him
Speaker 1: think that he's fighting for them. And I think that
Speaker 1: a lot of folks think, well, the pots on everybody's
Speaker 1: house in Washington. You know, I don't really care about
Speaker 1: all of this other stuff. At least he's fighting for me,
Speaker 1: and I'm hurting really badly, and somebody focus their attention
Speaker 1: on me, and so well, I don't. I think most
Speaker 1: of the polls indicate that his base is not falling
Speaker 1: away from him. And I think they know he doesn't
Speaker 1: tell the truth. I mean, at the president, clearly he
Speaker 1: doesn't tell the truth most of the time. And I
Speaker 1: think it's just kind of a way of being. It's
Speaker 1: not a and And I think they don't care because
Speaker 1: he has somehow demonstrated to them that I am fighting
Speaker 1: for you. And in this moment, they they are feeling
Speaker 1: so left out and so forgotten and so not known
Speaker 1: and so like people have been unaware of them that
Speaker 1: the fact that he's focused on them, they forgive everything else.
Speaker 1: So one of the things I learned about the monuments
Speaker 1: is that when people are on your side and they
Speaker 1: like you, they'll almost forgive anything that you do, and
Speaker 1: when they don't like you, they will hate you for
Speaker 1: everything that you do. So post my you meant talk
Speaker 1: even people who are my friends before who are against
Speaker 1: me now. I can't do anything right. I can't pick
Speaker 1: the garbage upright. I can't drive my car right, I
Speaker 1: can't fix the potholes right. Nothing's right. It's like when
Speaker 1: you get in a fight with somebody that you love.
Speaker 1: I mean, the fight's not always about what the fights about, right.
Speaker 1: And meantime, the Democratic Party, your party is in the
Speaker 1: weakest position that's been in nearly a hundred years. There's
Speaker 1: a major divide between the kind of the pragmatic wing
Speaker 1: um and the progressives led by Sanders and Warren. How
Speaker 1: do you think the party can come back? Because your sister,
Speaker 1: for instance, was the last Democratic senator from the Deep
Speaker 1: South and she lost in I'll tell you the premise
Speaker 1: of your question is is interesting to me. It seems
Speaker 1: like the Republican Party is in complete and total shambles.
Speaker 1: You've got Donald Trump and then you've got a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of but they're running the White House and the legislatures.
Speaker 1: That's true, But how long is that gonna last, what's
Speaker 1: it gonna look like. Is this just a moment and
Speaker 1: then we're gonna come out of it or are we
Speaker 1: forming a new way of governing? And I think we
Speaker 1: don't know that yet. I think it's too early to tell.
Speaker 1: I think it's pretty clear that the republic this. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get to the Democrats in a second, but they
Speaker 1: have a bunch of different factions that are all over
Speaker 1: the place, and you won't see this bust loose unto
Speaker 1: whenever Donald Trump leaves office, which maybe in four years
Speaker 1: or maybe in eight. But the next fight that that's
Speaker 1: gonna be very interesting. On the Democratic side, you see
Speaker 1: us licking on wounds on the national level in a
Speaker 1: pretty dramatic way. Um, and as every party begins to
Speaker 1: rebuild itself, you're gonna start having fights about left, middle,
Speaker 1: and center, and how that works out in some fashion
Speaker 1: is gonna be related to how President Trump does in
Speaker 1: the next couple of years and then with the public
Speaker 1: se So you asked me a question before it does
Speaker 1: you does his base still think that unless and until
Speaker 1: his base starts peeling off of him, Congressman on the
Speaker 1: Republican side are going to continue to back him that's
Speaker 1: just how the politics works. Then not, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: they'll be outflanked on the right. So that's a politically
Speaker 1: equation of for them. And until that base starts eroting.
Speaker 1: So everybody said, oh, it's terrible because as approval ratings
Speaker 1: lowest has ever been, Well, let me tell you something.
Speaker 1: His approval rating amongst his base is directly related to
Speaker 1: what the congressmen need to be secure in that district.
Speaker 1: When they start feeling insecureing that districts, right, it's gonna
Speaker 1: be interesting to see what happens with them when they
Speaker 1: go home for healthcare this week and how that works.
Speaker 1: But if they don't do that, they're gonna stay with
Speaker 1: him because one of the kind of unspoken deals is, well,
Speaker 1: even if I disagree with him, and even though I
Speaker 1: think he's wrong most of the time, he's gonna help
Speaker 1: us on tax reform. And by the way, we got
Speaker 1: Gorsage and we're likely to get the Supreme somebody else,
Speaker 1: and then we'll have the Supreme Court for thirty years.
Speaker 1: So look, we'll put up with whatever the president has
Speaker 1: to deal with. So that's kind of a that's the
Speaker 1: deal on the Democratic side, I think, you know, the
Speaker 1: Democrats are trying to figure out what in the heck
Speaker 1: went wrong and how did the Democrats lose being the
Speaker 1: champions for the middle class. So we need to go
Speaker 1: listen to people and they may be saying, you know what,
Speaker 1: we're not gonna rely on Washington for anything anymore, and
Speaker 1: we're gonna just really focus on what we have to
Speaker 1: do in our day to day lives. Is that why
Speaker 1: you would never run for president? Well, that's that's one
Speaker 1: of the reasons why. I know it's an incredible thing
Speaker 1: to say, but that might not be where the action
Speaker 1: is in years to come. I know that's kind of
Speaker 1: a crazy thing for people to think about. But the
Speaker 1: most innovative stuff that's happening in the country is happening
Speaker 1: on the ground, in the streets, in cities and in
Speaker 1: country and in counties and in rural American And by
Speaker 1: the way, this whole notion now that rural America is
Speaker 1: divided from urban America. I don't want to say that's
Speaker 1: a complete myth, but I'm telling you that I can
Speaker 1: prove to you in a very demonstrable way how urban
Speaker 1: areas rely on rural areas for our lifeblood, and they
Speaker 1: rely on us if you just think about farm to table,
Speaker 1: if you think about getting fish from the Gulf into
Speaker 1: the restaurants in New Orleans, if you think about getting
Speaker 1: the corn from the fields in Iowa to where we
Speaker 1: needed to put gas in our cars, we are inextricably
Speaker 1: linked to one another. The reason, by the way, in
Speaker 1: case anybody wants to read into that, the reason I
Speaker 1: said that was because when Katrina hit and we closed
Speaker 1: the port of New Orleans, the farmers in Iowa took
Speaker 1: a dramatic hit because they couldn't export their goods. I mean,
Speaker 1: so we we are. We are completely connected. And so
Speaker 1: while people try to tear us apart and say, well,
Speaker 1: you know that the different well, we read the same
Speaker 1: Bible in New Orleans that we do in small towns.
Speaker 1: But I don't think this is the media deal. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's a massive political difference between the way rural Americans
Speaker 1: vote in the way urban Americans, and also just attitudes
Speaker 1: and values, and I think sort of, I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot of class condescension between coastal and rural. Well
Speaker 1: that's none that you're talking about the coast. I think
Speaker 1: that's true, but all all cities are on the coast,
Speaker 1: I mean, and and by the way, it's not all
Speaker 1: people in the cities that think like that. So this
Speaker 1: notion that the only elites that live in cities, well,
Speaker 1: that's not true about New Orleans, and that's not true
Speaker 1: about Louisville, and it's not true about a lot of
Speaker 1: other cities. Albuquerque, you know, San Diego, all across America.
Speaker 1: Cities are doing great things. And by the way, eight
Speaker 1: of people in this in the country, you're gonna live
Speaker 1: in cities, and that's where all the demographic trends are coming.
Speaker 1: And so this notion that somehow we're different where aliens
Speaker 1: are ones of Martian you know, that's that that that
Speaker 1: is kind of of the moment that is going to
Speaker 1: change over time as demographic trends change. And I would
Speaker 1: just continue to say this, the more we can do
Speaker 1: stuff together, the better we're gonna be. Diversity is a strength,
Speaker 1: not a weakness. Inclusion is better than exclusion, you know,
Speaker 1: and hanging out with other people that are different from you,
Speaker 1: you might learn something from time to time, and we
Speaker 1: ought to do more of It's true. Brian Stevenson talks
Speaker 1: about the importance of being proximate, like getting out of
Speaker 1: your stylo hanging out with people from different socio economically.
Speaker 1: It's easy. Let me tell you this. It's easy to
Speaker 1: scream something nasty across the tweet at somebody else. It's
Speaker 1: really hard to do it when you're sitting across the
Speaker 1: dent table. I know, and we need and we need
Speaker 1: to have more face time with each other. Absolutely well,
Speaker 1: Mitch Landrew, we're going to get in big trouble because
Speaker 1: we're keeping you from your dinner. But we could talk
Speaker 1: to you all night if if you'd let us. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much back, A huge thank you this week
Speaker 1: to the Aspen Ideas Festival for hosting and recording this conversation.
Speaker 1: Thanks especially to Zach st. Louis from the Ideas Festival
Speaker 1: for coordinating all of the technical details on the ground,
Speaker 1: even Brian's airline tickets. So Zach, a big thank you
Speaker 1: for that, Zack, You're in a special place in heaven.
Speaker 1: As usual, Thanks to our producer Gianna Palmer, our sound
Speaker 1: engineer Jared O'Connell, Alison Bresnik for her social media prowess,
Speaker 1: and to Emily Bena and Nora Richie for their editorial
Speaker 1: support as well. What would our theme music be without
Speaker 1: Mark Phillips, I shudder to thank Katie. Thanks as always
Speaker 1: to Mark, Katie Kirk and I are the executive producers
Speaker 1: of this show. Thank you all so much for listening.
Speaker 1: As always, we'd love to hear from you, so please
Speaker 1: leave us a message at nine to nine to two
Speaker 1: four four six three seven or email us at comments
Speaker 1: at kurr podcast dot com. You have no idea how
Speaker 1: excited we get when we get a comment or a
Speaker 1: phone call. Giannic's forwards them to us on our email.
Speaker 1: Brian and I squeal with delight anyway, little school girls
Speaker 1: were all on Twitter. Also, speaking of Twitter, find us
Speaker 1: on social media. I'm at Katie Curic on Twitter and
Speaker 1: Instagram and Katie dot Kuric on Snapchat, and you can
Speaker 1: find me on Facebook as well. And Brian, your Twitter
Speaker 1: handle is at goldsmith b. Lastly, if you enjoy our show,
Speaker 1: please make your appreciation known by rating and reviewing us
Speaker 1: on Apple podcast. That keeps us in business everyone anyway,
Speaker 1: that does it for us. Thanks for listening. We'll see
Speaker 1: you next well, you'll hear us next time.