1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk Rick was really Rick was getting back 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: into guitar after having done it as a kid, but 3 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: really more as a vehicle for his writing. He saw 4 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: himself as a writer and an artist, and he was 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: trying on. 6 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: Different sort of influences. 7 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: He was influenced by everything from sort of the Beatniks, 8 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: pre Beatles, Buddy Holly, which is very evident in the Cars. 9 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 3: Picture this. It's nineteen seventy eight. You're driving down the road, 10 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 3: the radios on. Suddenly the sound you hear part rock, 11 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 3: part pop, part something from the future. You can't quite 12 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 3: name it. It's the Cars, that's right. The Cars a 13 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 3: mixture of rock and new wave. It's here. The Cars 14 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 3: didn't just bridge the cap between the classic rock of 15 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 3: the seventies and the synth driven sound of the eighties. 16 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 3: They basically built that bridge, and boy were they a 17 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 3: mainstay in the Boston area and nationally and globally. I'm Buzznight, 18 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 3: the host of the Take on a Walk podcast, and 19 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 3: we welcome back Bill Janovitz. Now you know Bill from 20 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 3: his band Buffalo Tom for sure. But Bill's just written 21 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 3: a book called The Cars. Let the Stories be Told. 22 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 3: And after these words, we're going to talk to Bill 23 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 3: next on Taking a Walk. Taking a Walk a returning 24 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 3: guest on the Taking a Walk podcast. Hello, Bill Janovitz, Hello, 25 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 3: buzz night. Nice to see you again. Nice to be 26 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 3: with you and you as well. 27 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. 28 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 3: We're going to talk about the new book The Cars 29 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 3: Let the Stories be told. But since you were last 30 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 3: time we started asking this question, Bill, so I'm not 31 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 3: going to let you get off the hook on the question. 32 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 3: I couldn't do that right. The question is if you 33 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 3: could take a walk with someone living or dead, who 34 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 3: would you take a walk with and where would you 35 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 3: take that walk with him? 36 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 4: WHOA I hadn't been aware of this question, living or 37 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 4: did I don't know. 38 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: The first person that comes to mind from me is 39 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 1: Keith Richards. I'm sure there are better choices, but first 40 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 1: of all, let's get the guy some exercise. He seems 41 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: to be doing fine without it, or whatever exercise he's doing. 42 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: But I would love to just talk music. Uh, now, 43 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: where would we do that. 44 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 2: All about? 45 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: He guides me around where his compound is or wherever 46 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,079 Speaker 1: wherever he goes for vacation in Jamaica or something like that. 47 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 3: I think we take it anywhere with Keith wouldn't we. 48 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 3: I think we would. Yeah. Yeah. I like the idea 49 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 3: of being in a compound with anybody, though, don't you. 50 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 2: I don't know compounds. 51 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: Uh, it depends how how like I like like a 52 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: nice long walk. I guess if it's a gigantic compound 53 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: and you've got plenty of space to write, but with 54 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: any kind of conversation it would want to I'd want 55 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: it to be somewhere, you know, fairly private, so you're 56 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 1: not getting interrupted in the streets and New York Code. 57 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 2: Kuck Richards or something like that. 58 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 3: Right now, have you encountered Keith in your career? 59 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 5: Yeah? 60 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: I met Keith once. So I wrote two Stones books. 61 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: And in between those two books, right as the first 62 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: one was going, I'm sorry, right as the second one 63 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: was getting getting started, it wasn't even really getting started. 64 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 1: Let's say, the publishing deal is just sort of coming 65 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: into place. 66 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 2: I just happened to be. 67 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: At this this ceremony at the JFK Museum here in 68 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: Boston for pen New England had I think three of 69 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: these ceremonies where they gave away an award of lyrics 70 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: of literary excellence, and the first one was to Chuck 71 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: Berry and Keith I'm sorry Chuck Berry and Leonard Cohen, 72 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: and I have these photos that are just insane from 73 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: the green room of me meeting Chuck Berry, of Leonard 74 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: Cohen sitting right in front of me, of Salmon Rushdie, 75 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: of Paul Simon, of you know, of course the Wool 76 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: of Good was there, Peter Wolf. But before the ceremony, 77 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: I I was just against a wall, trying not to 78 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: you know, bump into anybody or hurt anybody, or spill 79 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: anything some of the klutz. I just wanted to take 80 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: it all in and be the fly literally on the wall. 81 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: And right next to me was a little sort of 82 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: side table kind of thing up against the wall with 83 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: a lamp. And who should come and stand on the 84 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: other side of it but Keith Richards. 85 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 2: And he was by himself at that moment. 86 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,679 Speaker 1: So I had a pep talk to myself for about 87 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: five seconds and said, all right, you got to go 88 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: talk to Keith Richards. This just like mine, one of 89 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: my you know, you know, he's the guy I picked 90 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: right off the top of my head when you asked 91 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: me that question. So I turned to him and I said, uh, 92 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 1: I didn't want to get into my books or anything, 93 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: you know, because I didn't want to scare him off, 94 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: but I wanted to start a conversation or just say hello. 95 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: And I said, Keith, I just wanted to say hello 96 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: to you. You know, obviously you get this all the time. 97 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: I'm just very honored to meet you. And I said, 98 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: I said, oh, man, I so well, you know, what 99 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: do you say to Keith Richards? And he says, well, 100 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: feel the same way about schruck Berry, mate. 101 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 2: You know, he's he's he's just one of my he's 102 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 2: my hero. So I had to be here for him. 103 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: And I said, yeah, and what a great event for 104 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 1: him to get an award for his lyrics, you know, 105 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 1: And he said, oh, absolutely, man. He goes he's written 106 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: some of the greatest lyrics of all time, and he said, 107 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: hurry home. Drops in her eyes. Man, He's like, oh, 108 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: you know, and he starts counting his chest. And I'm 109 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: sitting there going, what an amazing guy to take this nervous, 110 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: awkward guy that I am, and just like sort of 111 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: jiu jitsu it into this beautiful conversation. And I'm sitting 112 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: here having a conversation about rock and roll lyrics with 113 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 1: Keith Richards and my mind was just like a b 114 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: So that was kind of the extent of it. 115 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 3: Wow, thanks for sharing that. Other than maybe you smoking 116 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 3: another three packs of cigarettes a day, you sounded pretty 117 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 3: much like him. That's good. That's good. So congrats on 118 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 3: the cars. Let the stories be told. How did you 119 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 3: first intersect with the cars? At least before you know 120 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 3: we talk about the book specifically, what you know, you 121 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 3: obviously did intersect with them. 122 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I when I was twelve years old was when 123 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 1: I first heard that record. It came out in seventy eight, 124 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: as you know, and I talk about it in the 125 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: pro lob of this book, where I'm just sitting in 126 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,359 Speaker 1: my friend's room and I was the old, oldest of 127 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: five and he had an older brother. I didn't have 128 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: any older siblings to bring me these records. And his 129 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: brother was the probably still the coolest person I know, 130 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: drove an orange Camaro, came back from college often bearing 131 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: cool records, and he brought back this record. 132 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 2: You know, with Natalie Moldova on the cover. 133 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: As we got to know later, this model at the 134 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: steering wheel and the lights are going and it's just 135 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: says the cars, and it's like, what is this? 136 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 2: You know? And you put down that. 137 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: We're on the shag carpeted shag carpet of a wood 138 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: panel bedroom in the seventies, you know, And we dropped 139 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: the needle and we're listening to Let the Good Times Rule, 140 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: and I talk about, Wow, what a revelation this is. 141 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: It's like, I mean, finally I found like, this is 142 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: one of my bands. This is like for me, this 143 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: is like not me going to catch up with the 144 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: Stones or the Beatles or Neil Young or whatever it 145 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: may be. This is something brand new and it sounds familiar, 146 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: but it also sounds extremely new and novel. So that 147 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: was the first time I'd heard them, and I was 148 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: just I just started the journey, my brother, my friends, 149 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: and I just got right into it with the with 150 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: the cars the first time I actually encountered them in person. 151 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: You know, I'm living around I just live a town 152 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: away from from from from from Greg as I think 153 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: you do as well. 154 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 2: And I've seen him. 155 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: I first actually met him very briefly at the Hot 156 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: ste of Cool Music music benefit, which I've been part 157 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: of for the better part of twenty something years. 158 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 2: And I Dowdy remembered me. 159 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: It was just, you know, in the backstage area of 160 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: all these other people going around, just me saying hello. 161 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: But in twenty eighteen, I was fortunate enough to play 162 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: music at another benefit out in Los Angeles. I was 163 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: an invited, honored guest to be there as part of 164 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: this Wild Honey Research autism research benefit. And you know, NLA, 165 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: it's like it's an embarrassment of riches of who comes 166 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:39,839 Speaker 1: along to play for these things. I mean, for when 167 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: they did a tribute to the Beach Boys, they had 168 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: Brian Wasn't himself, show Off, Alex Childen, all these and 169 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: it's just crazy. So when I play and I played this, 170 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: it was a kink Steen We played stop Your Sobbing, 171 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: and I sang and I had Easton with me playing guitar, 172 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: and Dennis Dyken of the Smithereens and Brian Wilson's band 173 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: making New York. 174 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 2: That's crazy. 175 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 5: It's just great. 176 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,839 Speaker 1: So for rehearsals, I met Elliott the night before or 177 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: to nights before, whatever it may be, and he's just 178 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: a warm Elliott Easton, a warm and open and very 179 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: conversational person who kind of like my encounter with Keith Richards, 180 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: except this time I was going to be playing music 181 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: with this person, and again my mind is blown. 182 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 2: I mean, here are these people off. 183 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: My record collection and I'm talking to them and they 184 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: were such a. 185 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 2: Big part of my life. 186 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: And anyway, long story short, Elliott and I just struck 187 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: up a little correspondence, stuck him. He already had one 188 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: of my Stones books, I think, and I sent him 189 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 1: more and we talked back and forth, and I said, hey, 190 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: you know, I wrote an article about this experience, and 191 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: I talked about how great and underappreciated Elliott Easton is 192 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: guitar player. And I said, what about doing a Car's book. 193 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: It's kind of a the suggestion of a friend of mine. 194 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 1: I said, that's a great idea, and Elliott thought it 195 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 1: was a great idea too, except that Rick Ocassick was 196 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: still around and he was very much in the shots 197 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: still for the band, and it didn't seem to take 198 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: root at that point. So in the meantime, I did 199 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: this Leon Russell biography and that seemed to get some 200 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: great traction and get the attention of the Cars guys 201 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: as well. And then sadly, Rico Cassa passed and I 202 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: struck up a relationship with these three guys and said 203 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: let's do a cars book, and they were all on 204 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: board with it. 205 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 3: And do you remember the first time you saw them 206 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 3: play live? 207 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: I never saw the Cars live. I mean, it's one 208 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: of my regrets. I mean, you know a lot of 209 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: people there did talk to you. I mean, I've seen 210 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: obviously many clips and I've got the videos, the home 211 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: videos and things, but. 212 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 2: No, I never got to see them live. Why is that? Well, 213 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 2: I was fairly young when they were going. 214 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: I wasn't able to really go to rock and roll 215 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: concerts for a few years until after that, and then 216 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: by that time I was moving to Massachusetts. I think 217 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: they broke up when I was, you know, soon after 218 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:58,599 Speaker 1: I was in my freshman. 219 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 2: Year of college. So I never really got the chance. 220 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: I have one of my band, my own bandmates, Tom McGinnis, 221 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: got to see them at the what is now the 222 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: Lang Center, but what was the what the Boston Music 223 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: Hall back then, the same weekend as the Pope was 224 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: in town. Everybody talks about that one. You know, there's 225 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: differing views on how the cars were alive. By all accounts, 226 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: you know, audio wised, they were amazing. A lot of 227 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: people were sort of let down by how their visual presentation. 228 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: Maybe how about you saw. 229 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 3: Them at the Yale Bowl, believe it or not, which 230 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 3: was not a fitting place to see them. I thought, 231 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 3: I didn't think it in the moment, and then after 232 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 3: the fact, I'm like that, I wish I saw them 233 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 3: at you know, the Wang or something like that, because it. 234 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 2: Was that cheap trick. I believe in a bunch of 235 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 2: other bands at the Yell Bowl, right, Yeah. 236 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 3: So that one. It was a great experience, but it 237 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 3: sort of didn't showcase them. I think like they should 238 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 3: have been showcased because obviously the catalog of music speaks 239 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 3: for itself. I mean, right, just just incredible. So walk 240 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 3: us through the ricklecastic Benjamin or partnership and how it 241 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 3: evolved over time with the cars. 242 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they met in Ohio. 243 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 1: Ben was raised outside of Cleveland in Agora Heights and 244 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: I thinks anyway suburb of Cleveland, and he was a 245 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: teenage star in a band called the Grasshoppers on a 246 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 1: local and then syndicated show called Upbeat. It had two 247 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: different names, but Upbeat was. 248 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 2: One of them. Sort of a sort of a shindig 249 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 2: type show. 250 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: They were he was sort of in a house band 251 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: that they had various house bands that came and went, 252 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: but he was in the Grasshoppers. There were a certain 253 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: like I said, teen local teen stars. Rick's family. Rick 254 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: was raised in Baltimore until he was about high school somewhere, 255 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: you know, later high school year sixteen or so, his 256 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: father got rid of caated to I think he's working 257 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: for NASA, an assa lab in outside of Cleveland. So 258 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: he he started college and and and bumped around Ohio 259 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: a little bit, Bowling Green and then ended up in 260 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: Columbus and that's where they met, and they it was 261 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: sort of like uh. At this point, Rick was really uh. 262 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: Rick was getting back into guitar after having done it 263 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: as a as a kid, but really more as a 264 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: as a. 265 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 2: Vehicle for his writing. 266 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: He saw himself as a writer and an artist, and 267 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: he was trying on different sort of influences. He was 268 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 1: influenced by everything from sort of the Beatniks pre Beatles, 269 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: very Buddy Holly, which is very evident in the cars 270 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: the Beatles of course, but then very much Bob Dylan 271 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: was revolutionary for him, as it was for so many 272 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: other writers, and then the Velvet Underground and and and onward. 273 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 2: But he was still you know when he was writing, 274 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 2: he was writing. 275 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: Sort of almost pastor old, you know, probably still some 276 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: nashy type stuff and some psychedelia, you know. 277 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 2: So they had these. 278 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: Different bands and when he met when he met Ben, 279 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: Ben joined this. They joined forces. They joined this band 280 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: id Nirvana. I think it was the first band. I 281 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:17,959 Speaker 1: made a mistaken there. But they had so many different 282 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: little iterations, and but they he recognized and Ben this 283 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: he remembered having. I think he learned and then put 284 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: put it together that he had seen Ben on TV 285 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: as when Ben was you know, sixteen or so, and 286 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: just being really impressed by that. And and Ben was 287 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: just a naturally charismatic, quiet, cool, natural singer, could play 288 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: any instrument. And it was just sort of like a 289 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: match made in heaven for Rick, who was a bit 290 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: more angular and tall and gawky and a little awkward 291 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: and edgy, and here was this smooth guy, and they 292 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: were sort of they I think they recognized this in 293 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: each other, this me and Yang. Ben wasn't really writing 294 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: anything Rick was, so one thing led to another. They 295 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: eventually tried on you know, duos, trios, blah blah blah. 296 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: They ended up in coming to coming to Cambridge, Boston 297 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: and forming a trio called Milkwood with Jim Goodkin, and 298 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: they put out one record and it's very kind of 299 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: what I was saying more singer songwriter nineteen seventy one ish. 300 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't really rock and roll, it was. 301 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: It was kind of a weak record that Rick Forever 302 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: tried to distance himself, and then there were other bands. 303 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: I don't know how long you want me to go on, 304 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: but I think there were different iterations that led up, 305 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: like two other three other iterations that led up to 306 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: the Cars in nineteen seventy seven. 307 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 5: We'll be right back with more of the Taken a 308 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 5: Walk podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast. 309 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 3: It's interesting thinking about the Boston came scene and the 310 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 3: influence certainly that that you know, had to have had 311 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 3: on the band and their evolution and their acceptance over time, 312 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 3: but also the fact of the rich you know, radio 313 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 3: landscape as well that was going on here in town 314 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 3: in the Boston area, you know, specifically the WBCN side 315 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 3: of things. But as I was hearing you talk about 316 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 3: that history and I was wondering, Okay, could they have 317 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 3: catapulted to success if they were in filling the blank 318 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 3: market A or B. Even if you mentioned Ohio, the 319 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 3: answer is yes, because Ohio was rich in experimental sounds 320 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 3: as well, you know, just like Boston and Cambridge was, 321 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 3: and the radio side of things was also rich there 322 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 3: as well. So I think there's many markets that would have, 323 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 3: you know, helped fuel their success, not only Boston. Would 324 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 3: you agree with that long winded statement. 325 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 1: It's it's it's a tough exercise to go through, and 326 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it really brings us much. I mean, 327 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 1: I will say that Boston was essential to them because 328 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 1: that's where, you know, so there's no native buff The 329 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: only native Massachusetts person in the band is David Robinson, 330 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: who had come from Modern Lovers and then was in 331 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 1: a garage punk band proto bant punk band called DMZ 332 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: with the They were basically the band that led to 333 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: being The Liars, who were a legendary garage rock band, 334 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: retro sort of thing. But the other guys, Greg Hawks 335 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 1: and Elliott Easton had come to Boston to go to 336 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: Berkeley College of Music, and like many who had come 337 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: to Berkeley, they dropped out at cerin Point and they 338 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: were kicking around in different bands themselves so you know, 339 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: I go into all of this lineage. 340 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 2: So there was that. Then there was also, uh. 341 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,719 Speaker 1: You know, by the time the Cars started, because they 342 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: were really through these other bands, it was very difficult 343 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: to get a gig playing original music. 344 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 2: You know. 345 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 1: They had to sneak in original songs, you know, when 346 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: they were in this band called Richard and the Rabbits 347 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 1: and then Cap and Swing, they had to smuggle in 348 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 1: these new songs, these original songs, I should say. 349 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:18,880 Speaker 3: So. 350 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: But by the time the Cars got going, let's say 351 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: what seventy six is when maybe the Rat started. Jim 352 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: Harold's here somewhere in there, and they were the Rat, 353 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: and maybe one or two other clubs in Boffin were 354 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 1: supportive of original bands, and it became a bit of 355 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: a circuit with CBGBs. So they would send each other 356 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: Hailly Crystal would send up bands to Jim, and Jim 357 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: would send I talked about this with Oedipus, a big 358 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: radio figure that you know here in part of BCN. 359 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: And so all of those things, plus the built in 360 00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: gigantic college town, the spinal taps statement. To the contrary, 361 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: it was a big b and it remains a big 362 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: college town and the drinking age was not yet twenty 363 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: one here, So all of those things were very much encouraging. 364 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: And not to mention what you already mentioned, which is 365 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: Max Antsar Torri at WBCN Oedipus. Before he got to BCN, 366 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: he was at what is now WNBR at MIT, so 367 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:29,719 Speaker 1: they had this built in support. 368 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 2: They were playing their demos. 369 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 1: I mean, max An started playing just what I needed 370 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: in demo form on BCN, and that really all of 371 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: a sudden, they had like not just one show at 372 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: the REP, but they have two shows a night, which 373 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: was sort of unheard of, like two separate doors entrances. 374 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 1: So they really got traction in Boston. 375 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 2: It's hard to say. 376 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: I don't know if all of those things could have 377 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: happened in Ohio. I think they felt like they had 378 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 1: to leave Ohio, Columbus, Cleveland, whatever it may be. LA 379 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: was more of a you know, sort of different thing 380 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 1: at that point. In fact, David and I'm giving you 381 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: a long, very even more long winded response, but David 382 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: had gone out to LA and and and was recruited 383 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: to play in this band called The Pop which was 384 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: a power pop band, and LA was kind of dead 385 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: at that time. You know, these A and R scenes 386 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 1: sort of move on to different places, and this kind 387 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 1: of went on at least through the grungeiars that I 388 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: that I was a little bit part of as well. 389 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,439 Speaker 3: Roy Thomas Baker produced the debut album. What did his 390 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 3: involvement bring to the sound? 391 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,959 Speaker 1: Oh he he he. Well, to say he was the 392 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: sound would be overstating it. Because they had the songs, 393 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: they had the arrangements. He didn't fuss with those at all. 394 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: He was coming off of his Queen Years monumental success, 395 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: which Mike Sensar Tori, by the way, also had a 396 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 1: big role in helping promote and break in America as 397 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: just among a few artists, including Aerosmith's. She was very, 398 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: very instrumental in breaking these artists. But uh so, Roy 399 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: Thomas Baker had produced those Queen records and they were 400 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: gigetic sounding, and he was getting he thought, well, he's 401 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: sort of taken that as maybe as far as could 402 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: could go or or should go. And he was getting 403 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: he was getting grief from some of the punk rock bands, 404 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: including the Sex Pistols themselves, who said, ah, you guys 405 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: are oh, you're you know, a bunch of blah blah blah, 406 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 1: and your this is all bloated and YadA YadA YadA. 407 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: And he said, well, maybe they have a point, maybe 408 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: there's a part where I should start to feel it back. 409 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: And he found He comes to this gig in Boston 410 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: and he's one of maybe a dozen people at this 411 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 1: gymnasium somewhere lost to history, some high school or college gymnasium. 412 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 1: And it's the middle of a blizzard and Fred lewis there. 413 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,959 Speaker 1: The cars manager drives him down there on a VW. 414 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: He loves them, he wants to sign them. He within 415 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: a year, their their record is out. They go to 416 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: they go to London. Uh and he he I mean 417 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: Roy Thomas S. Baker took them and said, instead of 418 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: having like these multi layers through everything, let's just have 419 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: it on. Let's start with the first song, good Times Roll. 420 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: It's this sparse, kind of sleek sounding wreck song, and 421 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, the big the chorus comes 422 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: in with these forty times vocals of shouting good Times Roll, 423 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 1: you know, in harmony and unison, and it just explodes 424 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: out of the speakers. 425 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 2: And Roy had come up. 426 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 1: As an engineer, so he really knew how to get 427 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: the best out of this peak analog equipment, tape, microphones, 428 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,360 Speaker 1: tube equipment, and just sort of peek it to where 429 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: it was just a little distorted, really saturate the tape 430 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: and get this what he called perceived loudness. So when 431 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: it came on the radio, it just sounded punchy and big. 432 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,120 Speaker 3: It sounded unlike anything we had heard. And it did 433 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,959 Speaker 3: fit so beautifully around everything that was being played at 434 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,919 Speaker 3: that time as well, so there was nothing that was 435 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 3: you know, out of sync with the times. It was 436 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 3: a breath of fresh air. It still is a breath 437 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 3: of fresh air. Really when I think about the music. 438 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 3: How did the massive success of the first album affect 439 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 3: the band's dynamics. 440 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 1: I think it was it solidified the first record. They 441 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: felt like a real a spree de corps. They they 442 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: they had this massive success. It just you know, there 443 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: were there were some there was some downside to it. 444 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: For example, Elliott was on all of twenty one maybe 445 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 1: at the time he was the youngest. Rick was nine 446 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: years older, though nobody knew that, including the band. He 447 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: kept his age, as did Ben. They kept it vague 448 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:58,199 Speaker 1: at best, but you know, here's a guy, here's a 449 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: duo and Ben in Rick that had starved. They were 450 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: on the dole basically welfare. They were stealing things to 451 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: just try to survive. They were working, you know, periodically 452 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: at retail just to kind of scrounch together some some 453 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: food money, blah blah blah. And now they finally hit 454 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:23,360 Speaker 1: it and it just it just verified it. It validated 455 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: everything for them for Rick. And you know, I think, 456 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: like I said, these guys were at different points in 457 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 1: their lives. I think Greg was had just gotten married 458 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: to Elaine, and you know, it was it's just like 459 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: they had they were a bit journeymen. They were a 460 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: bit of a journeyman group of guys that had sort 461 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: of been around a bit. 462 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 2: So here they were. 463 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 1: They finally made it, and it didn't happen immediately, but 464 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 1: it happened rather quickly. Over the course of that summer. 465 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: That record spread to and you could see it climbing 466 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: up the charts. And now they were no longer opening 467 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 1: for sticks, for example, they were headlining arenas. So they 468 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: went in and made that second record, and to me 469 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: and to most listeners, I think it was like one 470 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: A and one B. It's like I don't know which 471 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: choose your favorite, they're both. It's almost like a continuation 472 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: of the first record. It's just fantastic group of songs 473 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: that sounds amazing. 474 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 3: MTV was just launching, and you know, the Car's Peak 475 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 3: was happening. And how did the visual aesthetic of the 476 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 3: band and the videos contribute to the success. 477 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: Well, David Robinson, the drummer, who had come up, as 478 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,479 Speaker 1: I said, from the Modern Lovers and from a DMC. 479 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: He had a real eye and he's very very he 480 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: remains very visually oriented, and he's very into design and aesthetics, 481 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: and he kind of provided the band with their look, 482 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: which at that time was black and white, were a 483 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 1: little bit of red mixed in, you know, and it 484 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,360 Speaker 1: kind of became the template of new wave bands. I mean, 485 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: look at the Pretenders, look at the new you know, 486 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: look at the Romantics or whatever it might be. At 487 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 1: that time. Things that came out of it was like 488 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: the Knack. Eventually they were taking kind of a bit 489 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: of what of what David provided for the cars. The 490 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: cars individually had their own taste, of course, but David 491 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: was sort of the guide in force and they were 492 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: on the cutting edge of video, I mean, the very 493 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,679 Speaker 1: cutting edge of music. Video was really Devo at this 494 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: and this era, I mean music videos, films, promo clips 495 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: kind of go back at least to the sixties with 496 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: Motown going through you know, car factories and doing things 497 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:41,360 Speaker 1: like that. But now this is before NTV actually launched. 498 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 2: It was their third record. 499 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 1: The Cars Panorama, where they hired Gerald Cassally from Divo, 500 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: who had been doing DeVos videos. I mean, Divo was 501 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: almost an art band to begin with, a film band 502 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 1: to begin with. They saw it as a whole as 503 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: the recent documentary Believe Netflix shows that just came out 504 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: in the last few weeks. So they hired Jerry to 505 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: do their to do two videos on that record, Panorama 506 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: itself and Touch and Go. And like I said, this 507 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,360 Speaker 1: was before MTV was even around, so MTV didn't even 508 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: really come around until between that and their fourth record, 509 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: which was Shake It Up. And I remember seeing the 510 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: video for Shake it Up on MTV and I didn't 511 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: even have MTV, I as a friends, hassen, and it's 512 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: got that amazing guitar solo from Elliott, one of my 513 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: favorite guitar solos, if not my favorite guitar solo of 514 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: all time. But they were, you know, and I talked 515 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: to cassally about them and video in general, and he's like, 516 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of rock bands didn't want to 517 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: do videos at all, but some saw it as a 518 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 1: way to sort of like give to these TV shows 519 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,400 Speaker 1: as a you know, the MERV Briffin Show or something 520 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: where they didn't want to go and be on you know, 521 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: or like. So there were some shows that would use them, 522 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: but by the time MTV came around, it's like MDD 523 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: was starved for this kind of stuff, so they broke 524 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: a lot of acts that were sort of maybe even 525 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 1: mediocre acts because they have music videos and they played 526 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: them five, six, seven times a day, and the cars 527 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: are real beneficiaries of that, as we're devo. 528 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 2: But like a lot of. 529 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: Bands, they were reluctant to sort of Rick We talked 530 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: about this with the guys. Rick himself was reluctant and 531 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 1: ambivalent and suspicious of video because, like a lot of writers, 532 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,880 Speaker 1: you come up with imagery and you want the artists, 533 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, you want the listener or the reader to 534 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 1: come up with their own imagery. You don't want to 535 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: sort of assign it to them and have them have 536 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: listeners have to overcome their first exposure being a music video, right, 537 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: we all remember this from this era, those of us 538 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: that lived through this. But at the end of the day, 539 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: the cars really benefited from it, and who knows how 540 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: long their career would have lasted without it, But they 541 00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: became big time MTV presence, if not outright stars. They 542 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: won the first Video Music Award for you might think, 543 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: which was a you know, and this was by the way, 544 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: this video costs I think over four hundred thousand dollars 545 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: at that time, which was incredible, you know, nineteen eighty three, 546 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four, to spend this much money. 547 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 3: Ever on a video. 548 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: But it really kind of changed budgets for bands and 549 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: record labels too, because by the time my band came around, 550 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 1: I remember, we were spending more on videos than we 551 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: were on the recordings themselves. 552 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 3: What surprised you the most, well researched in the book. 553 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 2: Some of the stuff was I guess I didn't and 554 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 2: I can't say that, you. 555 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: Know, Rick's secret lives and compartmentalization. I can't say that 556 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: I was that surprised by that because he seemed like 557 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: a real enigma anyway, and he fostered that. But the 558 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: darkness of what ben Or went through as as after 559 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: the cars that say, or as the cars were starting 560 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: to wind down. That that kind of surprised me because 561 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: he came across as this easygoing guy for whom everything 562 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: came natural. Uh, and he should have been a giant 563 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: solo star himself. So to learn that was kind of 564 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: you know, tragic and sad, now beyond sad, really disheartening him. 565 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: You know, it's part of the story. 566 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 2: I had to tell it. So that was a bit surprising, 567 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 2: I suppose. 568 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 3: And were there any myths about the band that you 569 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 3: feel like you were able to debunk. 570 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure there are. Let me, I'll have to 571 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: come back to that when I think. But I mean, 572 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: you know, I think what's surprising to a lot of 573 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: people who don't know the cars really well might have 574 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: been more casual fans. Well, first of all, there are 575 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: two that they were even too vocalists, you know, to 576 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: lead vocalists. 577 00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 3: Uh. 578 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: It's like John and Paul and the Beatle to some 579 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: people when they finally learned how oh wait, Paul is 580 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: singing that one and you start to discern the difference, 581 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: which is funny because once you hear it, you can't 582 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: unhear it as we say. 583 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 2: But you know, people's. 584 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: People in bands tend to sort of become the band 585 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: and their voices start to take on characteristics of the other. 586 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: So there's that, And I guess one of the myths, well, 587 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: I think I don't know if it's a myth, but I 588 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: think a lot of people assume that Ben wrote the 589 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: songs that he sang. But you know, like the who know, 590 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: it's one guy wrote all the songs. Basically there were 591 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: some co writes with Greg Hawks, but for the most part, 592 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: all of those songs were ric ocassick. 593 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 3: In closing, you preside over your own band, and obviously 594 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 3: in doing the work researching about the cars, you delve 595 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 3: deep enough into the fragility of bands. You know, how 596 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 3: bands are just there's just a fragile nature there. Talk 597 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 3: about how you sort of view that now as you've 598 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 3: completed this book and you're out, you know, doing publicity 599 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 3: for it. 600 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Elliott gave me. 601 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:09,479 Speaker 1: I think I think it was for me, or at 602 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: least it gave a quote that's in the book that says, 603 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: you know, bands are such a knuckle ahead proposition. Anyway, 604 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: reflecting on the end of the band, and I understand 605 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: completely what he means. It's it's something that feels very 606 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: natural when you're twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen years old 607 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: and you're putting together band. It's almost like putting together 608 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: a gang or putting together a team, but to be 609 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: grown adults doing it as a sustained proposition. It's as 610 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: you say, it's so frop. You're dealing with people in 611 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: art and as a collaboration, and artists themselves tend to 612 00:32:54,240 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: be fragile and volatile, and when you put multiples of 613 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: them together in a collaborative effort, whether or not there's 614 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 1: a leader or not, or if with a democracy, which 615 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: is rare or not, you inevitably have to you have 616 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: to change out parts, right, it seems inevitable, But that's 617 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: not the case. Certainly with My Bad, which is beautiful, 618 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: we've had the same three. But for a successful band 619 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: like the Cars, it was the same five guys over 620 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: let's say five or six depending on what you want 621 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: to call it, the five six records before they broke up. 622 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: So that's a rarity, and it was a balance that 623 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 1: they were able to maintain until the end, and then 624 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: inevitably it starts to fall down. But what an amazing 625 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 1: collaborative effort for those for those years from nineteen seventy 626 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: eight to let's say nineteen eighty six, and before that 627 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: for Ben and you know, Ben and Ben and Rick 628 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: predated that by ten years. So it's a beautiful thing 629 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: to be able to keep that together. 630 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 3: What's going on with Buffalo Tom these days. 631 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 2: Not much. 632 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: I mean, we're just a part time fun for fun 633 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,919 Speaker 1: outfit now. I mean, we were supposed to play up 634 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 1: in Salisbury, Massachusetts, but the weather had other ideas. 635 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 2: That was for w X or V. 636 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,399 Speaker 1: We are I'm leaving for Spain and in a few 637 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: days with playing a festival out there in Valencia, which 638 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: is so it's just like, you know, if we can, 639 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: if we can get on a plane and go play 640 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: a festival in Valencia in September and come home without 641 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: losing money, it's all, it's all. 642 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:45,839 Speaker 2: It's all gravy at this point. 643 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 3: You know. 644 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: We formed in eighty six as the Cards who were 645 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: breaking up, as suppose, So it's really it's I feel 646 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: very fortunate to be able to still do it. 647 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 3: I feel fortunate talking to you, Bill, Thanks so much, Buzz, 648 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 3: Congrats on let the story be told. A great band, 649 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 3: part of music history without a question, and you always 650 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 3: just still deep into it and produce great work. So 651 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:10,720 Speaker 3: thank you for everything. 652 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:12,399 Speaker 2: I appreciate you having the us. 653 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 5: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a 654 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 5: Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends 655 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 5: and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking 656 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 5: a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 657 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 5: and wherever you get your podcasts. 658 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: The Leave