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Speaker 1: Welcome to The Giants Huddle, a New York Giants podcast.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the most recent edition of The Giants Subtle Podcast.

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Speaker 1: I am John Schmalk. Thank you so much for being

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Speaker 1: with us, and today's guest the Giants Draft picks and

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Speaker 1: rounds six and seven. Before we get to our guest,

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Speaker 1: I want to first remind you that you can find

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Speaker 1: The Giant Subtle Podcast on Giants dot Com, the Giants

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Speaker 1: Mobile app, and all of your favorite podcast platforms. If

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Speaker 1: you're on Apple Podcast, please leave a positive review. So

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Speaker 1: today we're gonna talk to Cam Brown, linebacker from Penn State,

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Speaker 1: Carter cough On edge rusher out of Minnesota, linebacker t J.

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Speaker 1: Brunson out of South Carolina, and defensive back Chris Williamson

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Speaker 1: at in Minnesota, and finally Mr Irrelevant Tay crowd Our

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Speaker 1: inside linebacker out of Georgia. Let's start off with the

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Speaker 1: Giants sixth round pick, number one three overall, Cameron Brown,

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Speaker 1: linebacker out of Penn State. Cameron, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: being with us. Congratulations. What was it like getting the

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Speaker 1: call and finding out you're gonna be a Giant? What

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Speaker 1: was it memorable? It was the greatest thing in my life. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: the biggest moment of my life. This came to a

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Speaker 1: close like this and going to New York. It's a

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Speaker 1: great place, great city, great fans. So I mean, I

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Speaker 1: couldn't be happier. Do you remember what was said to

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Speaker 1: you on the phone or was it really just a

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Speaker 1: big blur for you? Uh? Honestly, coach coach that he

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Speaker 1: wanted to make me a Giant. That's pretty much all

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Speaker 1: I heard. I said, thank you, and my family blew

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Speaker 1: up after that. It was kind of hard to hear

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Speaker 1: him after that. But honestly, it's it's kind of a blair. Now.

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Speaker 1: So how much had you spoken to the Giants in

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Speaker 1: the process leading up to the draft? Was this a

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Speaker 1: place you thought you might end up? Honestly, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: on the top of my list, not at all. I

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Speaker 1: talked to the Giants a little bit, a good amount

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Speaker 1: at the combine, just having good conversation, but outside of that,

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Speaker 1: I really finished expected this at all. And and it's

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Speaker 1: a great it's a great surprise. I said, Now we

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Speaker 1: have some pen stead guys up here, defensive line coach

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Speaker 1: Sean Spencer's say, Kwan Barkley, Grant Haley. Uh, have you

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Speaker 1: the chance to talk to those guys yet and how

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Speaker 1: do you feel about read joining them up here in

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Speaker 1: New York. I haven't had a chance to talk to

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Speaker 1: him yet, but I mean I know se Kwon just

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Speaker 1: texting me said congrats, And I mean that's the old

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Speaker 1: teammate that I love to go against. So I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm happy to be around those guys, especially guys that

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Speaker 1: coach Spence on the defensive side. He's been by my

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Speaker 1: side since I got to college, so I was happy

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Speaker 1: to go through the next four years again with him.

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Speaker 1: Well Cam for Giant fans and maybe haven't seen you

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Speaker 1: play much of Penn Stak, Can you describe your game

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Speaker 1: a little bit? How do you play the linebacker position

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Speaker 1: and what do you bring to the field. I played

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Speaker 1: the game reckless. I played the game fast and fast

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Speaker 1: and physical. I'm tall. I use it. I use it

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Speaker 1: to lunge around. I'm gonna put hands on whoever I

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Speaker 1: need to, and I'm I'm gonna hit you as hard

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Speaker 1: as I can. So that's how I always play. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the way I've seen people describe you as rangey when

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Speaker 1: it comes to your length and your ability to run sideline.

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Speaker 1: The sideline. Do you think that's accurate? Yeah, very much so.

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Speaker 1: I think it is. I think that's that's why I

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Speaker 1: do best. What kind of experience do you have in

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Speaker 1: coverage at the college level. I mean I sat in

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Speaker 1: over the slot my whole college career pretty much, so

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Speaker 1: I feel like, honestly, it's it's not not nothing I'm

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable with. Not anything I'm gonna comfortable now. You you played,

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Speaker 1: You played the sam right in a four or three

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Speaker 1: of Penn State. If Giants do end up running in

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Speaker 1: an odd front in the three four, how do you

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Speaker 1: think you can fit into that type of scheme? I think, honestly,

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Speaker 1: with my versatility, I feel like I could play either

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Speaker 1: that outside linebacker position for them or the inside of

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Speaker 1: one of the two box players, because I did do

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Speaker 1: a little bit of both at Penn State. Did you

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Speaker 1: speak to Joe Judge of the Giants defensive staff at

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Speaker 1: all about how they might try to utilize you. I

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Speaker 1: just did, just did a little bit, and they said

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Speaker 1: they want to use me. I mean, they want to

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Speaker 1: use me as a physical linebrary. They want me to

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Speaker 1: play the same way I played in college pretty much,

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Speaker 1: so they just want to see it just evolve a

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Speaker 1: little bit better. How about special teams? You know you're

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Speaker 1: gonna be asked to do that early. What kind of

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Speaker 1: experience you have on special teams? Special team that was

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Speaker 1: That's where I made my money freshman and sophomore year.

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Speaker 1: So how I got on the field is how I

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Speaker 1: made my name. And I love special team running down

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Speaker 1: on kickoff, hitting people, that's that's probably one of the

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Speaker 1: funnest parts of the game. So finally, what are your thoughts?

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Speaker 1: Are just coming to New York, huge market city and

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Speaker 1: and playing really in front of so many people and

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Speaker 1: in front of the bright lights. Honestly, I'm excited. I'm

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Speaker 1: really excited to the fact New York, New York picking me.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't pick the better place. Right up the street,

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Speaker 1: not too far from the house, not not too far

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Speaker 1: from anything, honestly, And it's New York. Can't get any

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Speaker 1: better than Big Apple. And it's a place that's used

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Speaker 1: to really good linebackers camp too. There's a long history

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Speaker 1: here of a lot of great linebackers that, uh, you

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Speaker 1: get to join up here with the giants, sir, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I get the guys. I mean, I've been getting comparisons

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Speaker 1: from Oaglo Tree for a while. And that's funny that

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Speaker 1: I finally end up in New York. Real good. I

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Speaker 1: appreciate it. Camp, thanks so much. We appreciate it, and

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Speaker 1: hopefully we'll see up here in New York sooner rather

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Speaker 1: than later. Best of luck. I appreciate you. See. Then

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Speaker 1: that's linebacker Cameron Brown out of Penn State. Now let's

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Speaker 1: go to the Giants. First of four picks in the

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Speaker 1: seventh round overall, Carter Coughlin, edge player out of Minnesota. Carter, congratulations.

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Speaker 1: So what was it like when you found out that

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Speaker 1: you were heading to New York to play for the Giants? Man,

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Speaker 1: it was a it was a dream come true. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's it's indescribable. Honestly, It's like a weightlifted off my shoulders.

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Speaker 1: And when I got that call from the Giants, man,

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Speaker 1: it was it was unbelievable. Now, you were Minnesota through

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Speaker 1: and through. Your grandfather played for him, your father played

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Speaker 1: from you have a cousin that played for him. I

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Speaker 1: just talked about how that family lineage and your mother

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Speaker 1: played there as well. Uh kind of just contributed to

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Speaker 1: how you grew up as an athlete and got to

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Speaker 1: where you are today. Yeah, Well, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: you look, you look at my My lineage and competition

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Speaker 1: was at the forefront since I was a child, and

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Speaker 1: so you know, even even now, we were playing pickle

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Speaker 1: ball in the in the front yard yesterday and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that, and it's crazy competitive. So since I was

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Speaker 1: a kid, that's that's how I grew up. And uh,

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Speaker 1: that's transferred to the football field. And I'm probably one

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Speaker 1: of the most competitive and hard working people, um, that

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Speaker 1: you'd ever meet. And so that's something I take pride

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Speaker 1: and I can't wait to bring that to New York.

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Speaker 1: And you were a team captain as well. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people are spoke very highly you're a football character.

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Speaker 1: How big of a part of that is from your

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Speaker 1: game and kind of what you bring to the football field.

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Speaker 1: You know, the way I see it, how you do

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Speaker 1: anything is how you do everything. And so for me, um,

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Speaker 1: the being a man of character on and off the

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Speaker 1: field is is incredibly important. And um, you know, the

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Speaker 1: reality the reality is, Um, there's there's so much to

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Speaker 1: life where you can you can use something like football

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Speaker 1: to be a someone who has an impact on different

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Speaker 1: lives and all that kind of stuff. And so that's

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Speaker 1: why For me, it's it's important to stick with my

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Speaker 1: integrity and my character. Just reading about and then watching

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Speaker 1: you on tape and how you play the game, you

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Speaker 1: just scream somebody to me that is somebody that would

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Speaker 1: embrace special teams and just love doing that to get

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Speaker 1: into the NFL darned a way onto the field. Man.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, I will do anything and everything

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Speaker 1: that the coach has asked me to do. Um, that's

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Speaker 1: that's when my mentality since I ever started playing football.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm a team player and I will fit

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Speaker 1: in wherever. Wherever works for me. On the defensive side

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Speaker 1: of the ball, where do you see yourself? Do you

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Speaker 1: see yourself as like a sub package edge rusher, as

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Speaker 1: an off ball linebacker? Where do you think you transition

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Speaker 1: to the pros in terms of your position on defense? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, to be honest with you, that's gonna be

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Speaker 1: something that, UM, I'm gonna have to continue to talk

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Speaker 1: to the coach and staff about. But you know, I

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Speaker 1: think that what I was able to do in Minnesota

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Speaker 1: allowed me to pick up a lot of different skills. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, going back to the offen and wherever, UM,

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Speaker 1: I think that. You know, once the coaches get to

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Speaker 1: work with me in in person and get me assessed,

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Speaker 1: they'll they'll stick me whatever is best for me. What

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Speaker 1: do you think your best traits and greatest strengths are

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Speaker 1: on the football field? Even though we just talked about this,

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Speaker 1: I'd say my my variability and what I'm able to do.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I had some success at pass rushing

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Speaker 1: in college, but that was the skill that I didn't

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Speaker 1: pick up till sophomore year. And um, so up till then,

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Speaker 1: I'd only played true linebackers, stacked and all that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff. So, uh, you know, going off of that,

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Speaker 1: I think that I'm gonna be able to add a

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Speaker 1: bunch of different things. And I understand that you grew

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Speaker 1: up right near Ryan Connell. You guys played together. Can

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Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about that relationship and whether

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Speaker 1: he's reached out to you and just how you know Ryan? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: absolutely so. So I got a chance to play with

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Speaker 1: Ryan in high school. Uh he was our quarterback for

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Speaker 1: the eating Fury Eagles in Minnesota. Um but on top

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Speaker 1: of that, Ryan and I actually grew up a couple

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Speaker 1: of houses down, lived in the same neighborhood. Uh, played

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Speaker 1: backyard football together. So I've known Ryan and his family

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Speaker 1: since since I can remember, so it's it's really incredible

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Speaker 1: that that he and I ended up on the same team,

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Speaker 1: and he reached out and congratulated me and all of that. Finally,

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Speaker 1: what are your thoughts ahead into the big city and

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Speaker 1: then playing in New York? Man? I am so excited.

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Speaker 1: New York is an incredible place. I've only been there

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Speaker 1: once before in my life, but when I went there,

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Speaker 1: it was it was unreal. So I can't wait to

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Speaker 1: get out to New York. Well, Carter, we can't wait

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Speaker 1: to see. Hopefully we'll see you up here soon or

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Speaker 1: rather than later. You've been able. That's stay in shape

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Speaker 1: and keep training during these very odd times in our country. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you better believe it, man. That's that's all there is

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Speaker 1: to do right now. So every single day I've been

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Speaker 1: working out and getting after it. Good stuff, my friend.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully we'll see up here soon. Man. Congratulations, Yes, sir,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much. That's Carter Coughlin, good friend of

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Speaker 1: Ryan Connolly's. Now let's head over to the Giants. Second

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Speaker 1: seventh round pick overall, T J. Brunson, linebacker right of

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Speaker 1: South Carolina, first of all. Congratulations. What was it like

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Speaker 1: getting on finding out you're heading to me? It's life

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Speaker 1: changing for sure, just here and uh and that your

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Speaker 1: name is gonna be called as surreal feeling. But I'm

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Speaker 1: excited and ready to go to work. Three years daughter

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Speaker 1: at South Carolina. Tell the folks how you would describe

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Speaker 1: your game for people that haven't seen your play. I'm

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Speaker 1: a guy that's gonna go out and play hard all

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Speaker 1: four quarters. Um, I'm gonna give him all and I'm

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Speaker 1: definitely gonna do what I have to do to uh

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Speaker 1: to win. Just you know, I'm just always gonna be

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Speaker 1: that guy that run around the field and make plays

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Speaker 1: and you know, start stuff off. Now, where did you

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Speaker 1: play a linebacker? Are you more of a Sam or Will?

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Speaker 1: Were you all full more? Where they use you a lot?

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Speaker 1: I was primarily, um, Mike and uh Will, but I'm

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Speaker 1: primarily inside linebacker. You know you have more experienced zone coverage,

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Speaker 1: um then playing receivers, or you're more of a Manda

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Speaker 1: Ban Tapy guy coming backs out of the backfield. Um,

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Speaker 1: it just depends on whatever the call is. UM. I

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Speaker 1: feel like I can do both just as well. So um,

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Speaker 1: whatever whatever is asked to me. I feel like I

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Speaker 1: can do a good job of two time team captain obviously,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that's very important to you. What is your

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Speaker 1: leadership style? How do you like to lead as a

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Speaker 1: team captain? Um, I'm a lead by example type of guy,

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Speaker 1: but you know, you have to be vocal, and I

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Speaker 1: don't have a problem with being vocal. So there's a

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Speaker 1: mix of both when it comes to that. But I'm

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Speaker 1: definitely a guy who just wants to go out and

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Speaker 1: do it the right way. Vore your conversations like with

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Speaker 1: Dave Gutten with Joe Judge. Did you talk to him

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Speaker 1: much before today or was today really your first contact

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Speaker 1: with them? Um? I had the opportunity to speak with

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Speaker 1: them at the Senior Bowl, and uh, I think our

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Speaker 1: first interaction was pretty good and I got to talk

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Speaker 1: to them and we talked a bit of ball and

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Speaker 1: about myself, and you know, I felt like, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: it will be a good shot at dam of the day.

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Speaker 1: How do you feel about coming to the big city

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Speaker 1: to play in New York. I'm excited, truly excited. I

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Speaker 1: can't wait to see what's going on up there. Well,

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Speaker 1: t J, we look forward to seeing you up here.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Congratulations again and best of luck.

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Speaker 1: We'll see us soon. Thank you so much. Have a

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Speaker 1: great day. That's t J. Brunson. The Giants still two

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Speaker 1: more seventh round picks. They selected only nine picks later,

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Speaker 1: two seven overall. Chris Williamson, cornerback out of Minnesota. Chris, congratulations,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the National Football League. How's your day going?

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Speaker 1: Pretty good? I bet man, it's been a long day now.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't be more excited. Man, man, I'm so glad

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Speaker 1: to be part of the translation, and I really am. Now.

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Speaker 1: I've read and seen you described as a versatile nickel defender.

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Speaker 1: Where did you play most of Minnesota and where are

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Speaker 1: you most comfortable playing. I started off on the outside

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Speaker 1: when I was when I got to Minnesota, but then, uh,

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Speaker 1: we kind of looked at things in the schedule and

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Speaker 1: they actually decided to move me in the slot based

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Speaker 1: on some of the guys we That was really what

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Speaker 1: I played most majority of the last two years. So,

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Speaker 1: but the one thing I had to consider myself was

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Speaker 1: laying for an extremely versatile player. How many how much

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Speaker 1: special teams have you played over the years. I've played

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Speaker 1: every special team throughout my whole career. M Now, you

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Speaker 1: started out of Florida, right, and you went on through

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Speaker 1: the FLODA. How much did the extra experience you got

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Speaker 1: in Minnesota. I know you had to battle some injuries

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Speaker 1: in Florida and stuff like that to help you get

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Speaker 1: to where you are. Oh man, I wouldn't be out

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Speaker 1: here if it was really I give credit to both

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Speaker 1: to schools. You know, I learned a lot while at

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Speaker 1: my time of Florida and then you know, really being

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Speaker 1: being able to be on the field that Minnesota. It

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Speaker 1: just gave me a lot of exposure and allowed me

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Speaker 1: to be in a position on him in today. Now

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Speaker 1: you're being mentored by former NFL cornerback Ray Buchanan. How

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Speaker 1: do you make that relationship and what are some of

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Speaker 1: the things he's been talking to you about during this process?

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Speaker 1: To be honest with you, Well, when I was younger

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Speaker 1: about it was eighth grade in my summer year. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we were leaving a workout complex called Copeda bet Sports

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Speaker 1: c Es and Ray Buchanan was trained some guys there

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Speaker 1: and as I had walked past, I didn't know he

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Speaker 1: was at the time, you know, kind of a younger guy.

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Speaker 1: And my mom actually saw and She went up to

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Speaker 1: introduce herself to him, and they got to talk and

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Speaker 1: he asked, he has my mom, Is that's your son?

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Speaker 1: You know he looks kind of fast, and they had

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Speaker 1: a little conversation, and then I got back home and

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Speaker 1: then my dad actually reached out to see yes and

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Speaker 1: got his number, and I started. I've been trained with

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Speaker 1: him for Lord knows how long he's been a long time,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I've been training with Ray Bickannon for a while.

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Speaker 1: And you know, he's helped preparing me for this moment,

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Speaker 1: just basically helped me with my skill, but also mentor me,

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Speaker 1: helped making sure I stay ready and making sure I

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Speaker 1: keep my mental strong. Now I understand you have a

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Speaker 1: pretty long relationship with Giants wide receiver Darius Slayton. Why

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Speaker 1: don't you tell us about that. Yeah, he's not gonna

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Speaker 1: be happy that I mentioned this. But a long time

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Speaker 1: ago in Grnett Football League, which is in UH, one

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Speaker 1: of the top leagues and for for the youth in

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Speaker 1: UH in the state of Georgia, me and Darius played

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Speaker 1: each each other in the nine year old when that

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Speaker 1: football league championship. And it's funny because I still give him.

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Speaker 1: I still give him a lot of nonsense about it

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Speaker 1: the day. But the funny thing is they played us

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Speaker 1: in the regular season. They were undefeated at the time

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Speaker 1: to actually be this pretty bad and uh we put

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Speaker 1: we played we we uh both teams when we ended

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Speaker 1: up playing a championship. His team actually put him to

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Speaker 1: the championship game in limousines. And now these are nine

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Speaker 1: year old kids pulling up to a championship game in

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Speaker 1: the limousine. They thinking they, you know, since they beat

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Speaker 1: us the first time, that they were gonna be this game.

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Speaker 1: We went out there beating fourteen to zero and that

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Speaker 1: was everything. Man. But yeah, that that's uh, that's where

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Speaker 1: his relationships started. And then we actually also went to

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Speaker 1: school together a great way to Christian High School. Very good.

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Speaker 1: So you guys kind of had the opposite of the

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Speaker 1: two thousand seven Giants Patriots deal. Huh. But the Giants

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Speaker 1: in the regular season Gihants definitely define you call it that,

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Speaker 1: all right? What are your thoughts just finally coming to

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Speaker 1: the big city, playing in New York. You're excited about it, man,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't be more excited. Man. I'm just glad to

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Speaker 1: be at trying to be a part of part of

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Speaker 1: that team. Look forward to getting to know my teammates

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Speaker 1: and just keeping my head now learning to playbook and

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Speaker 1: get into work. Awesome. Can't wait to see you up here, Chris. Congratulations,

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Speaker 1: enjoy it and hopefully we'll see in New York sooner

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Speaker 1: rather than later. Thank you so much. And finally, the

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Speaker 1: final pick in the two thousand and twenty NFL Draft.

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Speaker 1: They call this pick Mr. Irrelevant. I'm not a big

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Speaker 1: fan of the name, and we talked about it with

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Speaker 1: Take Crowder, inside linebacker out of Georgia. First of all, congratulations.

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Speaker 1: What was it like getting that phone call? And it

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Speaker 1: was a long wait, but you got there? Yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: it was a blessing. Man. You know, I was I

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Speaker 1: was shaking, hands was shaking, he was shaking. It was

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Speaker 1: just crazy. My uh, my family couldn't believe it. Who

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Speaker 1: was going through a lot of stuff at that time,

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Speaker 1: talking to different teams and stuff like that. But it

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Speaker 1: worked out for me, and uh, Mr Irrelevant, what can

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Speaker 1: I say? Yeah? And you know what, it's funny they

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Speaker 1: called Mr. Irrelevant. I don't like the term because this

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Speaker 1: is really irrelevant to you. Right, I'm sure you're I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you're going through that. You know, undrafted free agent process,

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Speaker 1: not knowing where you could choose that you can go.

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Speaker 1: But now that you're going to the Giants, what's your

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Speaker 1: reaction of going to the big city. Man, I've never

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Speaker 1: been up there. Uh, I'm excited. Always had a you

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Speaker 1: know thing for New York. Um, just from being from

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Speaker 1: a small town. And you know, some of my teammates

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Speaker 1: went out there and they love it. So I'm blessed

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Speaker 1: in this position and I can't wait to visit the Apple. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I gotta ask you about the teammates. Uh, Andrew Thomas

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Speaker 1: obviously the giants first round pick this year. Lorenzo Carter's

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Speaker 1: up there with the Giants. DeAndre Baker's up there with

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Speaker 1: the Giants. It's like the Georgia pros here. I have

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Speaker 1: you had a chance to talk to yet? Not. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll probably uh, you know, reach out to him. I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty sure they got the news, so they'll probably reach

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Speaker 1: out to me. And um, I can't wait to talk

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Speaker 1: to them too, man. Just uh, you know, Lorenzo Carter,

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Speaker 1: containment is when you know, show me, show me a

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Speaker 1: lot of different things that you know from New York.

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Speaker 1: So it'll be fun. Now, I was reading about your background,

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Speaker 1: You weren't heavily recruited. You kind of came to Georgia

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Speaker 1: the last minute, and you played a lot of special teams.

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Speaker 1: You need to fight your way to become a starter

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Speaker 1: on defense, and you finally did in your final year.

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Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about your journey about

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Speaker 1: how you got to this moment today? Uh? Man, I

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Speaker 1: had to fight through a lot of adversity. Uh, I

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Speaker 1: gotta thank God. I mean, uh, just leading me through

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Speaker 1: this whole process, Man, through this whole, this whole thing. Um,

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Speaker 1: this has been a ride. It's been a long ride.

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Speaker 1: And um, what can I say? Man, I'm blessed. How

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Speaker 1: do you think having to earn your way onto the

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Speaker 1: field the way you did help build not only your

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Speaker 1: football character, but your personal character and your ability as

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Speaker 1: a football player. You know, just going to work each

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Speaker 1: and every day, man, m on and off the field.

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Speaker 1: I had to find myself off the field and on

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Speaker 1: the field. And um, once I did, I went to work.

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Speaker 1: I trusted the coaches that I put an extra I

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Speaker 1: did all the little things I think I should have did,

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Speaker 1: and it paid off with me. And then finally, I

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Speaker 1: know you obviously made a lot of your you know

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Speaker 1: plays on special teams. Joe Judge, a special teams coach,

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Speaker 1: how much of a role do you think that played

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Speaker 1: in the Giants being interested in you? And how much

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Speaker 1: pride do you take in your ability on special teams.

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Speaker 1: I've taken a lot of pride because I mean, uh,

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Speaker 1: from my career, that's where I had to start, That's

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Speaker 1: where I had to start, making players where I proved myself.

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Speaker 1: So I take fully pride and I love the team.

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Speaker 1: They take really private and special team. So I'm ready

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Speaker 1: to go now. Joe Judge, coach with Kirby Smart Alabama.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it's gonna feel like an old program to you. Man,

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Speaker 1: you should feel right at home. Congratulations. We look forward

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Speaker 1: to seeing you up here in New York. Yeah, no doubt.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. We thank all our players for joining us

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Speaker 1: on today's episode of the Giant Subtle Podcast. I'm John Schmilch.

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Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more content as the offseason continues on

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Speaker 1: the Giants Mobile app, on Giants dot Com, and of course,

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Speaker 1: on all your favorite podcast platforms. We'll see you next time.

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Speaker 1: Everybody