Speaker 1: Hey everyone, It's Jay Sheddy and I'm thrilled to announce
Speaker 1: my podcast tour. For the first time ever, you can
Speaker 1: experience on purpose in person. Join me in a city
Speaker 1: near you for meaningful, insightful conversations with surprise guests. It
Speaker 1: could be a celebrity, top wellness expert, or a CEO
Speaker 1: or business leader. We'll dive into experiences designed to experience growth,
Speaker 1: spark learning, and build real connections. I can't wait to
Speaker 1: meet you. There are a limited number of VIP experiences
Speaker 1: for a private Q and a intimate meditation and a
Speaker 1: meet and greet with photos.
Speaker 2: Tickets are on sale now.
Speaker 1: Head to Jsheddy, dop me Forward, slash Tour and get
Speaker 1: yours today. And what I found is that pressure doesn't
Speaker 1: attract success and joy, and being passive doesn't attract success
Speaker 1: and joy, and the only place that does is peace.
Speaker 1: And peace is me saying I'm going to do everything
Speaker 1: I can and then leave the result up to what
Speaker 1: the universe is, what God wants, whatever the energy is
Speaker 1: around me. But I'm going to do everything I possibly
Speaker 1: can because I think there may be a lot of
Speaker 1: people listening right now who are doing something where they
Speaker 1: studied for it. They were educated for it, they worked
Speaker 1: hard for it. Their parents maybe even were really impressed
Speaker 1: that they did it, and now they're at an age
Speaker 1: where they're going I think I want to change my career.
Speaker 1: Like I don't think this satisfies me anymore.
Speaker 2: The number one health and wellness podcast.
Speaker 3: Jay Seti, Jay Shetty Only.
Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Jay Shetty, and I am so grateful that you've decided
Speaker 1: to join me today. This is a very special episode
Speaker 1: because I'm in Qatar at Web Summit and right now
Speaker 1: I'm sitting inside the iHeart studio and there are people
Speaker 1: around the studio who have headphones on who can listen
Speaker 1: to the podcast. Hello everyone outside. We've never done this
Speaker 1: before ever, which is awesome. And I'm really excited because
Speaker 1: my best friend of nearly the last two decades now
Speaker 1: is in the house. He recently moved to Dubai. We're
Speaker 1: in Doha. He's flown over so that we can hang
Speaker 1: out because we now need to schedule our hangouts because
Speaker 1: that's what happens with adult friendships. And I'm so grateful
Speaker 1: because I thought I'd invite him on the show today
Speaker 1: so that we can share some of the most pivotal
Speaker 1: moments of our friendship careers life over the last two decades,
Speaker 1: and I thought it would be a special treat for you.
Speaker 1: So welcome to the episode, Nanda, who is in the
Speaker 1: studio with me. Nanda, thanks for joining me.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much.
Speaker 3: Jay. I can't believe that we've known each other for
Speaker 3: nineteen years and we speak probably three times a week,
Speaker 3: and you choose to drop about half an hour ago
Speaker 3: that I'd like to bring you onto the podcast, like,
Speaker 3: give me an opportunity to prepare. This is my big moment.
Speaker 3: And literally I'm meeting a berg and you're like, actually,
Speaker 3: I think you should come on the podcast.
Speaker 2: Number That's exactly what happened.
Speaker 1: We were having a casual conversation, even though we have
Speaker 1: three casual conversations a week.
Speaker 2: And I was just like, yeah, you know, it would
Speaker 2: be really fun.
Speaker 1: We've never done this before and it would be a
Speaker 1: really good idea, and I thought it'd be fresh for
Speaker 1: my amazing community to hear about our friendship life, the
Speaker 1: journey that we've both been on, the journey that I've
Speaker 1: been on through your perspective. And yes, just so everyone knows,
Speaker 1: Nanda's had no time to prepare. We both came up
Speaker 1: with this. Well, no, he didn't come up with this idea.
Speaker 1: I came up with this idea thirty minutes ago. And
Speaker 1: here we are, so let's de it. I've known Nanda
Speaker 1: ever since before I became a monk, and I remember
Speaker 1: actually saying that to you.
Speaker 2: I wanted to do that.
Speaker 1: I then even talked to you when I was leaving
Speaker 1: the monastery and all the challenges of reintegration of my
Speaker 1: health and everything else, all the way through to which
Speaker 1: we'll talk about some of these events of spending time
Speaker 1: in New York together in the early stages of my
Speaker 1: career LA and now all the way through to Dubai, Doha,
Speaker 1: and so where should we starting under.
Speaker 3: It's just incredible to think nineteen years is a long
Speaker 3: long time. And I certainly remember the first time I
Speaker 3: did meet you back in two thousand and six, and yeah,
Speaker 3: that journey that you just talked about. The thing that
Speaker 3: just jumps to me is I think people already know
Speaker 3: a little bit about your desire to become a monk.
Speaker 3: And when I first met you, you were out of
Speaker 3: the box thinker. You were like, Okay, I know I
Speaker 3: can crush it in the corporate world, but I want
Speaker 3: to do something different. So I really want to start
Speaker 3: with when you left the ashram. And the reason I
Speaker 3: want to start with that is because I remember that
Speaker 3: conversation very very clearly. You're heartbroken because you went in
Speaker 3: with a very clear idea of I'm doing this for life,
Speaker 3: like I'm signed up. We spoken about it many times before.
Speaker 3: For those of you that don't know Jay, he's an
Speaker 3: all or nothing guy, so a real extremist in the
Speaker 3: sense of if I'm going to achieve something, I'm going
Speaker 3: to go all in. So I want to want you
Speaker 3: to really share how did that feel, because I guess
Speaker 3: that was the first inverted commas failure for something that
Speaker 3: was really caught who you were and what you wanted
Speaker 3: to do. As you're offering to the world.
Speaker 1: Well, I want people to know also that now we're friends,
Speaker 1: but in the beginning of our relationship, you or my mentor,
Speaker 1: because you'd been practicing spirituality for far longer than me,
Speaker 1: and so when I first came in, you were someone
Speaker 1: that I turned to for advice, and of course I
Speaker 1: still do that today as a friend, but at that
Speaker 1: time it was very much so you were sharing with
Speaker 1: me experience insight, and so it was natural for me
Speaker 1: to come to you at that time. And I've always
Speaker 1: described it like a divorce because I think that's the
Speaker 1: only analogy that makes sense for someone who doesn't know
Speaker 1: what it feels like to become a monk and leave.
Speaker 1: It feels like I got married for three years to
Speaker 1: the love of my life and then I figured out
Speaker 1: that it wasn't going to last and that it wasn't
Speaker 1: going to work. So the heartbreak you'd feel from a
Speaker 1: breakup or a divorce is the heartbreak I felt from
Speaker 1: leaving the monastery. Because, let me paint a picture for everyone,
Speaker 1: I really didn't know what I was going to do.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people feel like I had
Speaker 1: a plan, or I had a strategy, or I.
Speaker 2: Knew what I was going to do. I had no clue.
Speaker 1: And if I'm completely honest, I was really scared about
Speaker 1: going back to the workplace because I was worried. I
Speaker 1: was thinking, wait a minute, do I have to go
Speaker 1: back into consulting or financi or business because that's what
Speaker 1: I would have done. Will I be able to make
Speaker 1: it in that space? How will I be able to survive?
Speaker 1: I've been doing what I love for three years, which
Speaker 1: is study wisdom, teach it, share, do a lot of
Speaker 1: philanthropy work. That's what I've been doing. How am I
Speaker 1: going to do that in the workplace? So I had
Speaker 1: no clarity. I was moving back in with my parents,
Speaker 1: which felt like a failure. I remember the community having
Speaker 1: judgment over my decision.
Speaker 2: Right. It wasn't like I came back to a fanfare
Speaker 2: of no.
Speaker 3: There wasn't. Yeah, in a bizarre way, there were certainly
Speaker 3: some people that were like, oh, really, you think you
Speaker 3: can do this? And so when you didn't end up
Speaker 3: doing it because of the health challenges and other reasons
Speaker 3: that came up, yeah, I'm sure it would have been
Speaker 3: a real kick in the face. And I think we
Speaker 3: speak about this all the time in terms of plot twist,
Speaker 3: but the way the journey has then unfolded is really remarkable.
Speaker 3: But I certainly remember those early days where it was
Speaker 3: like I just need to pay my bills, Like what
Speaker 3: am I going to do? Like what is my core
Speaker 3: skill set here? And I'm sure you shared it in
Speaker 3: other places, but all the different jobs you were applying to,
Speaker 3: all the rejections you got, we wore Yeah, we read
Speaker 3: it in books all the time, but this is real,
Speaker 3: this is real life, and for me it's been an
Speaker 3: inspiration seeing you on this journey. And one of the
Speaker 3: things I want to talk about in this podcast and
Speaker 3: in the five minutes you gave me to prepare was
Speaker 3: was this idea of the beast mindset that you can
Speaker 3: clock into. And we speak about this all the time.
Speaker 3: Jay has this belief that everyone can unlock this part
Speaker 3: of their brain that really fulfills their potential. And I
Speaker 3: think that in those times of challenge, that's when your
Speaker 3: backwards against the wall, you really found out who you were,
Speaker 3: and I guess you also found out who your friends
Speaker 3: were in that moment.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I always look back to a piece of advice that
Speaker 1: Thomas Power, one of my other mentors in life, would
Speaker 1: often say to me. He'd say that when you're in
Speaker 1: moments of pain, that's when you'll find your potential.
Speaker 2: And whenever you used to.
Speaker 1: Say that, I used to be like, yeah, yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: like yeah, I used to be like okay, like I
Speaker 1: know my potential. I'm pretty okay, I'll figure it out.
Speaker 1: And then when I was in those moments, so at
Speaker 1: that time when we're talking about right now. I was
Speaker 1: rejected from forty companies and I didn't even get an
Speaker 1: interview at those companies. And I'm someone who got a
Speaker 1: first class degree, yep, and so not getting an interview
Speaker 1: at forty companies. And I'm saying this not for you
Speaker 1: to think, oh, Jay, you're amazing. I'm saying this because
Speaker 1: I actually feel a lot of you might be in
Speaker 1: this position right now where you're trying to make a
Speaker 1: transition in your career. You're trying to make a new job,
Speaker 1: you're trying to sell a new product, you're building a
Speaker 1: new business, and all you're getting is rejection after rejection
Speaker 1: after rejection. And that experience gave to me was two things.
Speaker 1: One was all you need is one yes. All you
Speaker 1: need is one yes. All I needed was one company, Accentia,
Speaker 1: to say we're going to give you a shot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we're going to put.
Speaker 1: You on a graduate scheme at twenty five, twenty six
Speaker 1: years old, but we're going to give you a shot.
Speaker 1: So that's one thing. And the second thing I learned
Speaker 1: is that it's all a game of odds. Yes, it's
Speaker 1: all about the law of odds. And what I mean
Speaker 1: by that is it is simply as basic as the
Speaker 1: more doors you knock on, the more open. So if
Speaker 1: you've not had any open doors, you just haven't knocked
Speaker 1: on enough. And so I think I learned those two
Speaker 1: really critical skills. And then fast forward a few years later,
Speaker 1: which we'll get to, when I was four months away
Speaker 1: from being broke, it was the same principles I had
Speaker 1: to go back to, was all you need is one yes,
Speaker 1: and if no doors have opened, you just haven't knocked
Speaker 1: on enough.
Speaker 3: Well, one of the interesting things about that is in
Speaker 3: order to knock on doors, you need humility because the
Speaker 3: likelihood is you're going to not on the door and
Speaker 3: it's not going to open. It's going to take that much.
Speaker 3: And in the monastery, obviously we focus very much on
Speaker 3: the principle of humility. And again it sounds great in
Speaker 3: the books, but can you actually live it, Like if
Speaker 3: this is really my service in life, and I'm obviously
Speaker 3: thinking about it now, like I transition from law to
Speaker 3: what I'm doing now, which is as a leadership coach
Speaker 3: and an entrepreneur and trying to sell that's not natural
Speaker 3: to me. It's really uncomfortable, actually, And the reason it's
Speaker 3: uncomfortable is because I have to go to people and say,
Speaker 3: would you like my service? I'm very happy to provide
Speaker 3: the service, but yeah, I think it requires real humility
Speaker 3: and continuing to do it, not from a place of desperation,
Speaker 3: but really from a place of service. And I think
Speaker 3: I think you nail that, and that's why, as we say,
Speaker 3: the universe reciprocated.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really fine point you brought out, and
Speaker 1: it's challenging because I think we operate from two places
Speaker 1: as humans. One is passive, yes, and so we're like, oh,
Speaker 1: it will happen when it happens. If the universe providesids,
Speaker 1: it will work out just the way it's meant to.
Speaker 1: And we say these phrases, but beneath them there's an
Speaker 1: insecurity and an uncertainty. And the opposite way we function
Speaker 1: as humans is we're pressured. So we think, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: that person's already sold their company and they're only thirty five,
Speaker 1: and oh my gosh, that person just made one hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollars doing that, and oh my god that So
Speaker 1: there's pressure. So we either function from being passive it
Speaker 1: will happen when it's happened, or pressure, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's not happening for me. And what I found is
Speaker 1: that pressure doesn't attract success and joy, and being passive
Speaker 1: doesn't attract success and joy, and the only place that
Speaker 1: does is peace. And peace is me saying I'm going
Speaker 1: to do everything I can and then leave the result
Speaker 1: up to what the universe is, what God wants, whatever
Speaker 1: the energy is around me. But I'm going to do
Speaker 1: everything I possibly can. And it goes back to your point.
Speaker 1: And by the way, I've seen you do this, and
Speaker 1: I think it's in I wanted to talk about it
Speaker 1: through stories that people may not be familiar with. You
Speaker 1: were a really successful lawyer. You were doing great, and
Speaker 1: you decided that it wasn't fulfilling you. And I actually
Speaker 1: want to ask you about that because I think there
Speaker 1: may be a lot of people listening right now who
Speaker 1: are doing something where they studied for it, they were
Speaker 1: educated for it, they worked hard for it, Their parents
Speaker 1: maybe even were really impressed that they did it, and
Speaker 1: now they're at an age where they're going I think
Speaker 1: I want to change my career, like I don't think
Speaker 1: this satisfies me anymore. And it's harder when you've done
Speaker 1: something like law which took years of training, years of
Speaker 1: building up. How did you get comfortable with giving up
Speaker 1: your feeling around sunk cost bias? For anyone who doesn't know,
Speaker 1: sunk cost bias does an economic term which means I've
Speaker 1: already invested so much time, money, or energy down this path.
Speaker 1: And usually what it does is it keeps you on
Speaker 1: that path because you think I've invested too much to
Speaker 1: let it go. That's why people don't change careers, It's
Speaker 1: why people don't break up from relationships, It's why people
Speaker 1: don't do any of those things. For you, what finally
Speaker 1: gave you confidence to say, you know what, even though
Speaker 1: I'm really good at law, even though I make a
Speaker 1: really good living, even though I have a family and
Speaker 1: two kids, I'm still going to take a risk Because
Speaker 1: in my eyes, me going off to become a monk
Speaker 1: was a risk, but you pivoting your career at that
Speaker 1: age was also a risk.
Speaker 3: What got you there, it was a huge risk, and
Speaker 3: it was in terms of the investment in the sunk
Speaker 3: cost was a three year law degree, a one year LPC,
Speaker 3: a two year training contract, and then ten years post
Speaker 3: qualified in law. So that's a lot of years of
Speaker 3: studying to try and become a specialist in something. And
Speaker 3: at that point, I think two things happen. You get
Speaker 3: the golden handcuffs, i e. The salary goes up, and
Speaker 3: whilst the salary is going up, your standard of living
Speaker 3: has also gone up. So you've then got the mortgage.
Speaker 3: As you know, at that point, I was already married
Speaker 3: with two kids as well, so it was a huge risk,
Speaker 3: but I think it came. I mean, I certainly got
Speaker 3: some courage from you, and I'm really grateful for those
Speaker 3: walks around central London when you were in that period
Speaker 3: of transition and you're incurring me. And I remember you
Speaker 3: specifically saying, hey, Nanda, you know when you're at your
Speaker 3: best is when you're talking to people and when you're
Speaker 3: coaching people and when you're public speaking, So why don't
Speaker 3: you do that? And I'm like, oroh, that's not a career.
Speaker 3: That's not a career. Unless I'm speaking in court, that's
Speaker 3: not a career. So you really helped me think outside
Speaker 3: of the box, and you touched on the cultural nuances
Speaker 3: and you joke about it all the time, right, like
Speaker 3: as an Indian, it's a doctor, a lawyer.
Speaker 2: What's the third or a failure?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Exactly, so you were already winning.
Speaker 3: I was already winning in life. That was My mom
Speaker 3: was happy, my dad is, My grandparents were happy, like
Speaker 3: I was the chosen one. When I go to family events,
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, what I found was they
Speaker 3: were resisting to change, not because they didn't love me,
Speaker 3: but simply because they'd also come to the country and
Speaker 3: so security was their primary driver. So out of love,
Speaker 3: they were like, why would you want to do this?
Speaker 3: You're now so close to where you ultimately want to be.
Speaker 3: But of course, I think that's where spirituality really comes in,
Speaker 3: because it makes us think about, well, where do we
Speaker 3: really want to be and what really makes us thrive.
Speaker 3: So in my case, I found a huge amount of
Speaker 3: courage from the fact that the bits that I enjoyed
Speaker 3: in law were like when I'd talk to clients or
Speaker 3: when I would do conferences within the legal industry or
Speaker 3: business development people people people. So I was like, okay,
Speaker 3: I like it. Fortunate enough, I managed to go ton
Speaker 3: to a four day week. On my non working day,
Speaker 3: I worked and I got myself qualified as an ICF
Speaker 3: credit coach. I started working and I got the feedback,
Speaker 3: the validation to say, this is a runner, this can work,
Speaker 3: and so yeah, the rest is history. But it wasn't
Speaker 3: easy by any means. But I often say you need
Speaker 3: cheerleaders around you at that time because self doubt is
Speaker 3: going to be all over you. And so I'm so
Speaker 3: grateful to you because I really feel like you were
Speaker 3: a pivotal person, just as I was a pivotal person
Speaker 3: for you when you were younger at that particular time.
Speaker 3: You reciprocated tenfold because you were there for me and
Speaker 3: maybe believe it's possible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, because I saw it, and I think you're
Speaker 2: so right.
Speaker 1: This is why our friends are so important in being
Speaker 1: honest with us, in noticing our strengths, being honest about
Speaker 1: our weaknesses, noticing our values. And I always say to people,
Speaker 1: if any of you are struggling with what you should
Speaker 1: do for work, sometimes just go around to your friends
Speaker 1: and meet them one on one and say, Hey, have
Speaker 1: a really honest discussion with me. What do you think
Speaker 1: is my number one skill? What do you think I'm
Speaker 1: actually good at? And your friend might be like you
Speaker 1: plan the best parties, like that's what you're good at,
Speaker 1: or you know what, whenever it's whenever there's a big event,
Speaker 1: coming up. You're really good at event planning, and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I've done this with my sister, and
Speaker 1: I've seen that my sister's always organized lots of retreats,
Speaker 1: she's organized lots of events. She's really talented at that.
Speaker 1: It isn't her career, and I'm constantly nudging her in
Speaker 1: that direction and saying, hey, have you thought about wedding planning?
Speaker 1: Have you thought about birthday planning? Have you thought about
Speaker 1: event planning?
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 1: But what I loved about watching you make that transition
Speaker 1: was that I think a lot of people think, oh,
Speaker 1: when I get a million followers, then i'll make a transition.
Speaker 1: Oh when I make X amount of money, then I'll
Speaker 1: make a transition, And you were actually making it while
Speaker 1: you were there, and the sign of success was good feedback.
Speaker 1: And so I think not postponing that transition, that pivot,
Speaker 1: that switch. And I love what you said because I
Speaker 1: think this is true for everyone. You have to have
Speaker 1: one foot in either boat. Yes, at the beginning, so
Speaker 1: you were gone down to a four day week. One
Speaker 1: day became coaching, Studying weekends became that going doing the exams,
Speaker 1: the course, and when you've got one foot in each boat.
Speaker 2: Once you're confident enough.
Speaker 1: You didn't take the other thing, you take the other
Speaker 1: leap exactly, rather than what I think a lot of
Speaker 1: us do is we've got two feet in one boat,
Speaker 1: the other boat so far away, and you go, oh, no,
Speaker 1: it's all about the jump. It's all about the leap,
Speaker 1: and you kind of amp yourself up, then you jump,
Speaker 1: and then you fall into the water, and now you're
Speaker 1: drowning because you're like, wait a minute, I don't even
Speaker 1: know where the other boat is. And so I don't
Speaker 1: want to glorify risk because I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people will be like, you have to take a risk,
Speaker 1: you got to do something big, you got to take
Speaker 1: a leap. And I'm like, well, well you've got to
Speaker 1: be a little bit measured and a little bit practiced
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 3: I meanf you've got a mortgage to pay, it absolutely.
Speaker 3: But I think this point around understanding the difference between
Speaker 3: your self awareness and external feedback and getting that balance right,
Speaker 3: because yeah, we can amp things up in our own head,
Speaker 3: and we can think we're the greatest speaker and the
Speaker 3: greatest coach or the greatest podcast host, but actually the validation,
Speaker 3: of course comes from the outside world, and you know
Speaker 3: if you're doing a good job, but you're going to
Speaker 3: find out very quickly. I think you're going to find
Speaker 3: out quickly. But you're also going to feel really good.
Speaker 3: For me, Like, even if I was doing a good
Speaker 3: job in law, I didn't feel good. So that for me,
Speaker 3: that internal compass was always very clear. This wasn't what
Speaker 3: I was meant to be doing. And we speak about
Speaker 3: this all the time in terms of finding purpose, and
Speaker 3: it's a big pressure, Like people come up all the
Speaker 3: time saying how do I find my purpose? But it
Speaker 3: very much is a journey and it's not going to
Speaker 3: be something that you sit down one day, meditate and
Speaker 3: have that aha moment, like you've got to go and
Speaker 3: do things. Yeah, and you've got to be aware of
Speaker 3: like what have I been doing? So you'd always say
Speaker 3: to me, actually, none, as long as I've known you,
Speaker 3: you've always been doing public speaking, right like whether through
Speaker 3: when I met you, that's what you're doing exactly. So
Speaker 3: that was my go to So it was an easy
Speaker 3: thing for me to do. So it's actually knowing that
Speaker 3: and then having someone to validate that and support you
Speaker 3: along the way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've read something recently which I think is called
Speaker 1: the Pigmalion effect. I don't know if you've come across it,
Speaker 1: but it's this idea that we're better at doing things
Speaker 1: when we think people believe in us. Yes. And so
Speaker 1: it's when they told teachers that these kids are performing well,
Speaker 1: and so teachers started to treat them better. Yes, and
Speaker 1: then the kids performed better even though they weren't any different.
Speaker 1: And that's a quick version of it. You can check
Speaker 1: it out. But what was really interesting about it was
Speaker 1: we can also do that to ourselves. And so it
Speaker 1: works when we set higher standards for ourselves. Yes, we
Speaker 1: start treating ourselves in that way, and it goes back
Speaker 1: to your beast mode point of you rise to your standards.
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of us don't know what
Speaker 1: that means, because I think when we set high standards,
Speaker 1: we usually feel we fail. Yes, we usually feel, oh no,
Speaker 1: I'm going to feel like I failed, So I might
Speaker 1: as well just set a lower standard exactly. And one
Speaker 1: thing I've noticed in high performers that I really appreciate
Speaker 1: is high standards matched with high grace. And so if
Speaker 1: you look at the best people in the world. I
Speaker 1: love this commencement speech that Roger Federig just gave. I'm
Speaker 1: sure you saw it. And he talks about how in
Speaker 1: his career he's lost a ridiculous amount of points. I
Speaker 1: can't remember the exact number, but he's lost a ridiculous
Speaker 1: amount of points, like almost forty percent of points or
Speaker 1: forty five percent of points. And you think, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: how could one of the greatest have lost forty five
Speaker 1: percent of points? And he says, because all I've got
Speaker 1: to do when I lose a point is focus on
Speaker 1: the next one. And he said, if I sit there
Speaker 1: and I'm constantly thinking about the last point and how
Speaker 1: I should have responded, and how I should have hit it,
Speaker 1: and how I should have placed it, now all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, my attention's gone on the next point, and
Speaker 1: now I've lost the next point. And that just continues.
Speaker 1: So I love that idea that greatness came from having
Speaker 1: a high expectation of winning every point. But then they're
Speaker 1: having enough grace to say, actually, if I focus on
Speaker 1: the last point, I'm going to lose the next point
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think it's interesting that you know, you
Speaker 3: were moved by that commencement speech, because every single commencement
Speaker 3: speech follows that same pattern. If you've noticed, yes, right
Speaker 3: it is. It is failure to success, and yet somehow
Speaker 3: we are surprised that all of these people have failed.
Speaker 3: And it's the same for me. It's like if people
Speaker 3: think Jay's failed, I'm like, yeah, he's had like crushing
Speaker 3: blows along the way, but he kept going. And it's interesting,
Speaker 3: like law, you know, is a real perfectionist mindset. It
Speaker 3: comes from a strong academic background, and so that is
Speaker 3: what you're judged on, and so you're not meant to
Speaker 3: make mistakes. But as we all know, mistakes are how
Speaker 3: you make the journey.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's how you learn. It's going to happen
Speaker 1: along the way. And I think one thing that I remember,
Speaker 1: which was really important part of our friendship, and I
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about certain events.
Speaker 2: It was definitely that.
Speaker 1: So I started working at Accentia, and I was working
Speaker 1: at a client that was close by to your law firm.
Speaker 1: So every lunchtime we'd go on like an hour walk
Speaker 1: around London and we'd have these conversations nearly every day.
Speaker 1: While I was at this client.
Speaker 3: By the way, just in case my former employers are listening,
Speaker 3: I was I wasn't meant to have been gone for
Speaker 3: an hour, right, I think it was probably meant to
Speaker 3: be a client.
Speaker 2: I think this is true for me.
Speaker 1: But we've gone this hour walk and these are the
Speaker 1: conversations we'd have, and it shows you how important that
Speaker 1: friendship is, how important that connection is. Yes, and I
Speaker 1: think we were both looking for an escape. But the
Speaker 1: thing is we weren't just then making our time together entertainment.
Speaker 1: Our time together became these conversations.
Speaker 3: You had done your you know, you were thinking about
Speaker 3: doing your coaching diploma, or you'd just done it at
Speaker 3: that particular point, and I just remember this idea of
Speaker 3: you need to invest in yourself in order to move forward.
Speaker 3: So at the time you were really getting too psychometrics,
Speaker 3: it was disc was the one that you would be
Speaker 3: rolling out constantly, and then it was MBTI and more recently,
Speaker 3: as you know, I just got qualified in a particular one.
Speaker 3: And what I loved about that was it showed me
Speaker 3: that validation is very important to me. So even from
Speaker 3: a personality perspective, that is important to me. So how
Speaker 3: do I process that information. I should be aware that
Speaker 3: I'm going to be looking for that validation, but also
Speaker 3: know that potentially it could trip me up because if
Speaker 3: I don't get that validation, what do I do? Do
Speaker 3: I stop? So? I think, you know, really investing in
Speaker 3: yourself is so critical, and we were taught it obviously
Speaker 3: from a spiritual perspective from a young age as we
Speaker 3: were coming through the monastery and so on. But even
Speaker 3: in normal business life, the moment you stop learning and growing,
Speaker 3: I think, is the moment you start to feel like
Speaker 3: you're losing momentum in life and lose that joy.
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Speaker 1: use the code on Purpose. Well, what's really interesting is
Speaker 1: that when you go to school, right, you start nursery
Speaker 1: at whatever three four years old, and then you're basically
Speaker 1: at school to eighteen. And if you go to university
Speaker 1: or college, then you're there till twenty one or maybe
Speaker 1: a bit older if you do law or medicine or
Speaker 1: whatever it may be, or a postcrad. And what's really
Speaker 1: interesting is that from the moment you're three or four
Speaker 1: years old, Every year up until twenty one is pretty
Speaker 1: much mapped out. Yes, so you don't actually have to
Speaker 1: think when you complete fourth grade what comes next? You
Speaker 1: go to fifth grade, and then you go sixth grade,
Speaker 1: and then you go to seventh and then eighth and
Speaker 1: then ninth and tenth.
Speaker 2: And you never had to think. There's no ownership, ownershment.
Speaker 2: There's no ownership.
Speaker 1: And what ends up happening is as soon as you
Speaker 1: get to twenty one and you let's say you get
Speaker 1: a job, you can grad job, you start a job. Now,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, your whole trajectory is up to you.
Speaker 1: Do you stay at this place? Do you network for
Speaker 1: a promotion? Do you take on extra curricula? Do you
Speaker 1: quit your job and get promoted somewhere else?
Speaker 2: Do you switch?
Speaker 1: Do you all of a sudden at twenty one years old,
Speaker 1: it's like, well, now we're not going to tell you
Speaker 1: what to do for the next fifty years. And so
Speaker 1: I think everyone is at a disadvantage, yes, because you
Speaker 1: haven't had to use your brain for all of those years.
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, you have to use your brain,
Speaker 1: and now you're scared, so you're asking everyone around you.
Speaker 2: What should I do?
Speaker 1: Is this the right path for me? Should I quit
Speaker 1: my job? Should I get married? Should I not? Should
Speaker 1: I write? And that confusion. I have a lot of
Speaker 1: empathy because of that, because we weren't made to make
Speaker 1: decisions early enough.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that a four year old should be
Speaker 1: deciding what they're studying at university. That's not the point.
Speaker 1: But there has to start becoming a little bit of
Speaker 1: ownership about direction and about choice, because that's how you
Speaker 1: build confidence in yourself. So most of us have never
Speaker 1: made a made your life decision until twenty five thirty
Speaker 1: years old. No wonder we're crippled by the anxiety and
Speaker 1: the stress and the pressure that comes with that because
Speaker 1: you didn't have to think about anything that was that
Speaker 1: complicated for like eighteen years.
Speaker 3: It actually links really well to the discussion we're having
Speaker 3: last night around so as I mentioned, I've got two kids,
Speaker 3: and you know, the question is how do you raise
Speaker 3: kids in this world? Oh? Yeah, it was a really
Speaker 3: fascinating discussion. This idea of pushing them to take responsibility,
Speaker 3: you know, not remaining under the shelter of your parents,
Speaker 3: because although it's going to be uncomfortable for them. That's
Speaker 3: the only way they're going to learn. That's the way
Speaker 3: you're going to get the life skills to be an
Speaker 3: independent thinker, to be someone who's really going to go
Speaker 3: out and be able to make those difficult decisions. Also,
Speaker 3: self awareness, Yes, you can get through a psychometric but
Speaker 3: the real self awareness is going to come through challenges. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and putting yourself in situations is like, am I going
Speaker 3: to sink or swim? So I remember you saying this
Speaker 3: to me when I was talking about my own son,
Speaker 3: is like, No, there's got to be a certain degree
Speaker 3: of challenge. He needs to know that if he falls,
Speaker 3: you're there to catch him, but you're not there like
Speaker 3: holding him. Yes, because otherwise he's not going to learn
Speaker 3: to stand.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's knowing that. I think all of us need
Speaker 1: to know that we're loved whether we win or we lose. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's what all of us want. All of us want
Speaker 1: to know that I am loved or all of us
Speaker 1: want to know that you are loved whether you win
Speaker 1: or you lose. And so your child, yourself, your partner,
Speaker 1: what they want from you is that you love them
Speaker 1: no matter what. But they need to be able to
Speaker 1: win or to lose of their own choices, of their
Speaker 1: own accord.
Speaker 2: And I remember one meeting that we had.
Speaker 1: I remember when you actually flew out with me to
Speaker 1: New York when I first moved there, and you slept
Speaker 1: on my couch. Yes, And I remember, well, maybe i'll explain,
Speaker 1: Maybe you can tell him what you had for breakfast, because.
Speaker 3: I think it was a banana from Whole Foods. So
Speaker 3: Jay's cooking skills are awful. My cooking skills are one
Speaker 3: one tier below that. So we were just having conversation.
Speaker 2: Now I think we're on the same level.
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, I mean I could pick out the banana,
Speaker 3: But no, I was coming out to New York and
Speaker 3: I was expecting, like, you know, the Huppton post thing
Speaker 3: had just happened. It was actually it was a beautiful apartment,
Speaker 3: like it was you know, it was a one bed,
Speaker 3: it was, it was it was nice, like five hundred feet. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it was cozy, I think, I think is the right
Speaker 3: way to define it. But yeah, I was there. I
Speaker 3: was there, sleeping on your couch. And it's beautiful to
Speaker 3: think where you've come from that particular point. But go on,
Speaker 3: you were going to say there was something particularly about
Speaker 3: that meeting.
Speaker 1: No, I was just going to say that it was
Speaker 1: one thing that you realize as you live life is
Speaker 1: that life becomes the stories. Yes, And I remember a
Speaker 1: few years before that, I was at a friend's wedding
Speaker 1: in Ibitha, Yeah, and I was sitting having dinner on
Speaker 1: the beach at my friend's wedding, and I was sitting
Speaker 1: with this man who has around seventy years old, and
Speaker 1: he was sitting there almost like in a movie scene
Speaker 1: of He was in one of those beach rocking chairs.
Speaker 1: There was a little fire pit that we were around
Speaker 1: with me and my wife, some of our Janevie, and
Speaker 1: someone else from the wedding, and we were sitting with
Speaker 1: this man and he just had these crazy life stories.
Speaker 1: And I remember sitting there and just thinking, I really
Speaker 1: hope that when i'm his age that I'll have stories
Speaker 1: to tell, and not stories to tell to the world,
Speaker 1: even just stories to tell to my friends. And I
Speaker 1: think what happens in our busy, distracted life, the events
Speaker 1: in our life become events where everyone's there. Whereas we
Speaker 1: have a lot we talk about this a lot that
Speaker 1: as I have got older, group events are great, but
Speaker 1: it's the one on one investments over the years that
Speaker 1: give you stories and memories.
Speaker 2: Who remembers the.
Speaker 1: Big birthday party that one hundred people were at or
Speaker 1: fifty I don't ever think about those things. I don't
Speaker 1: talk about those things. But I can remember when you
Speaker 1: were sleeping on the couch and we were waking up
Speaker 1: and we were walking to the you know, the grocery
Speaker 1: store picking up groceries coming back like I can remember that,
Speaker 1: or I can remember the walk we used to go on.
Speaker 1: And I think it's so important that as we get older,
Speaker 1: I think sometimes we think I want that big birthday
Speaker 1: party again, I want that feeling of being a kid again.
Speaker 1: And it's almost like those one to one relationships are
Speaker 1: so powerful. And I think one of the things I
Speaker 1: really value about our friendship is I think it's become
Speaker 1: harder for men to find these relationships in our community
Speaker 1: and outside. It doesn't matter whether you're in a spiritual
Speaker 1: community or not. It's just harder for men to find connection.
Speaker 1: And I think for us, one thing that really helped
Speaker 1: was you were always really vulnerable and honest and open
Speaker 1: about your life when we first got to know each other,
Speaker 1: and as you were my mentor It was very new
Speaker 1: for me because mentors and teachers are generally people who
Speaker 1: you think have it all together and you're learning because
Speaker 1: they have it all together. And not only do I
Speaker 1: disagree with that, you helped burst that bubble very early
Speaker 1: on because you'd be really open about your challenges or
Speaker 1: whatever you were going through. And I try and do
Speaker 1: that with my community today. I'm really open and honest
Speaker 1: about well. I always talk about how like me and
Speaker 1: my wife don't have a perfect marriage. There's loads of
Speaker 1: stuff when we'll talk about it, or you know, I
Speaker 1: haven't had a career where everything's been easy, but I
Speaker 1: find that as men it's harder. How have you found
Speaker 1: that over time, and like, how have you navigated that
Speaker 1: and what are your thoughts on male friendship and how
Speaker 1: you strengthen that bond because I think a lot of
Speaker 1: men are feeling lonely right now in the world.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, you know, the definition of kind of the
Speaker 3: modern man is like a hotly contested debate and just
Speaker 3: this idea of vulnerability. For me, I think I was
Speaker 3: naturally wired like that, Like I like honesty and transparency,
Speaker 3: and you know, if you're sincerely asking, I don't see
Speaker 3: why I wouldn't be open. Actually, I think I've learned
Speaker 3: the opposite. I think I was probably too open in
Speaker 3: this world. And so something that I've learned over time
Speaker 3: is you can't place one hundred percent faith and trust
Speaker 3: in someone when you meet them for the first time.
Speaker 3: You know, it's a process that you have to build
Speaker 3: over time.
Speaker 2: That's a hard lesson as well.
Speaker 3: It is a hard lesson because and it's a painful lesson.
Speaker 3: But we spoke about this in the past as well, like,
Speaker 3: you know, would you want it the other way? Would
Speaker 3: you want to be so closed and then gradually gradually
Speaker 3: open up. I feel like, yes, there's a risk to
Speaker 3: the way that I am. People may judge me for
Speaker 3: being open about things, but actually I think it's it's
Speaker 3: the way forward because it's what feels natural for me.
Speaker 3: And obviously as I've got older, it's about understanding the
Speaker 3: right people, the right time, the right place, and ultimately,
Speaker 3: am I being vulnerable to serve that person? Because one
Speaker 3: thing I've learned with coaching is sometimes people are vulnerable
Speaker 3: really just to unload, right, And it shouldn't be about that.
Speaker 3: It should be very much about I'm trying to serve
Speaker 3: that person. If I can be relatable and show them
Speaker 3: I'm not on a pedal staal. I've gone through similar challenges.
Speaker 3: But this isn't about me, it's about you. I think
Speaker 3: that can be really helpful and you don't need to
Speaker 3: be a coach for that. I'm talking about basic because
Speaker 3: you talked about friendships. I think that's where friendship comes from.
Speaker 1: And I think that's also how you don't become harsh
Speaker 1: in a world that may feel harsh, like I would
Speaker 1: rather turn up fully as I am consciously and then
Speaker 1: however someone responds to that, Now I'm clear on where
Speaker 1: we're at, yes, Whereas if I come all cagy and
Speaker 1: holding back, now, I don't know whether that person's mirroring
Speaker 1: my energy or they might be hiding something. And so
Speaker 1: if I come out and I'm just fully myself and
Speaker 1: I'm loving and I'm trusting and I'm open, then I
Speaker 1: get a quicker sense of where someone's at and whether
Speaker 1: our energy matches, not whether they're a good or bad person,
Speaker 1: just on whether our frequency matches. Whereas if I lower
Speaker 1: my frequency, thinking I'm protecting myself now, actually I'm working
Speaker 1: against myself because I can't quickly figure out and I
Speaker 1: think That's what I look at, is what's the pace
Speaker 1: of figuring it out, like when you can speed that
Speaker 1: up because you're fully yourself. Now you have a great
Speaker 1: sense of Okay, trust this person. I can see where
Speaker 1: my barriers are with this individual. And I think setting
Speaker 1: boundaries has become such a healthy thing for adult friendships
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: I think we talk about this a lot.
Speaker 1: When you grow up in a big community, everyone thinks
Speaker 1: they know you, and everyone claims to know you, and
Speaker 1: everyone claims to be your friend, and it's really hard,
Speaker 1: and you know, sometimes people can turn oh I went
Speaker 1: to college with that person, or I went to school
Speaker 1: with that person too. Oh no, no, I knew that
Speaker 1: person really intimately. And so I think it's really important
Speaker 1: that we set healthy boundaries. I think what's helped me
Speaker 1: with my male friendships. And I have a lot of
Speaker 1: young male friends who guys that I mentored like you
Speaker 1: were mentoring me at the time. And I think for me,
Speaker 1: it's always been these one on ones. I think it's
Speaker 1: really easy as a bunch of guys to hang out,
Speaker 1: watch your game, whatever it may be. But when you
Speaker 1: can have these one on ones where there's space for
Speaker 1: both of you to truly put the guard down, and
Speaker 1: it's almost like taking your armor off. Like the thing is, men,
Speaker 1: you've got to recognize that there is a desire to
Speaker 1: be strong and be this warrior. But at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, you've got to take your helmet off,
Speaker 1: you've got to put the shield down, you've got to
Speaker 1: put the sword down, you've got to take the armor off.
Speaker 1: And that's when you can see each other's wounds and
Speaker 1: be open about it and talk about it. And I
Speaker 1: think I consider myself to be a warrior mindset, as
Speaker 1: you were talking about earlier. But a big part of
Speaker 1: that warrior mindset is also having that safe space where
Speaker 1: you don't have to have the shield and the guard
Speaker 1: up all day long and you can finally put it down.
Speaker 3: Is that changed for you over time?
Speaker 1: I think I dealt with that in the beginning of
Speaker 1: my career, where I had to be so intense about
Speaker 1: growing and building and it's not about being mean, it's
Speaker 1: about having a winner's mindset. I think there's a difference
Speaker 1: between having a winner's mindset being mean and harsh. And
Speaker 1: I was developing that winner's mindset, and I realized that
Speaker 1: it took me a long while to realize how to
Speaker 1: be with my wife and still have a winner's mindset,
Speaker 1: but recognize it shouldn't be projected onto her.
Speaker 3: How do you reconcile that winner's mindset and that drive
Speaker 3: and that ambition with the spiritual principles that you live by,
Speaker 3: because people externally would feel like that's a real contradiction.
Speaker 2: So how do you do that.
Speaker 1: I think there's a difference between being ambitious and aggressive. Okay,
Speaker 1: I think you can be an ambitious without being aggressive.
Speaker 1: I think aggression is something that spills over on to
Speaker 1: other people. It's how you treat other people. It's how
Speaker 1: you greet other people. It's how people feel when they're
Speaker 1: around you. They feel scared, there's fear. Aggression is ambition
Speaker 1: in its lowest form. And then ambition is something about you.
Speaker 1: It's now your expectation of yourself. It's your desire for yourself.
Speaker 1: It's what you expect and want of yourself. Aggression is
Speaker 1: when you want everyone else to now mirror that. And
Speaker 1: I actually remember Gorannga Das, who's my monk teaching. Of
Speaker 1: course you know him very well as well. He actually
Speaker 1: taught me this very early on. Because for anyone who
Speaker 1: knows him as you do. He has an impeccable schedule,
Speaker 1: so he wakes up at two am every day, meditates
Speaker 1: for two hours before everyone wakes up to meditate, and
Speaker 1: then will meditate, then go and cook for all the monks,
Speaker 1: then come back. So my point is he's a superhero
Speaker 1: as the superhuman, and anyone who tries to imitate him fails.
Speaker 1: I've been there, hands hands up, been there. But the
Speaker 1: more important thing is he told me that really early on,
Speaker 1: that he had to realize that his expectations had to
Speaker 1: be of himself, and that a good leader doesn't create
Speaker 1: high expectations for others, but operates at the highest values
Speaker 1: and expectations for themselves, and everyone rises to that because
Speaker 1: they see the example. So anyway, going back to what
Speaker 1: we were talking about with this spiritual point, for me,
Speaker 1: ambition and spirituality should never have been put as opposites. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and somewhere in our narrative, and this is probably one
Speaker 1: of my favorite things. The famous quote that goes around
Speaker 1: is money is the root of all evil, and everyone
Speaker 1: knows it. You hear it everywhere, but the actual text
Speaker 1: says the love of.
Speaker 2: Money is the root of all evils.
Speaker 1: That's a really massive piece of context that is missed
Speaker 1: in one of the most famous quotes and money of all.
Speaker 3: That also, the money is God's energy, correct and therefore
Speaker 3: and therefore can be used in in service just like
Speaker 3: everything else. But I wanted to talk about how do
Speaker 3: you continue to live in that spirit of gratitude like
Speaker 3: all of the achievements I've witnessed really since well when
Speaker 3: did it all kick off? Twenty sixteen? I guess so,
Speaker 3: like in the last nine years, every single time there'd
Speaker 3: be something huge happened, like a huge guest comes onto
Speaker 3: the podcast, I would always say to you, bro, like
Speaker 3: this is nuts, Like this is nuts. Remember we're in
Speaker 3: New York, Like this is nuts, And you'll always come
Speaker 3: back and say, yeah, Bro, this is just the beginning,
Speaker 3: Like that is your line, This is just the beginning.
Speaker 3: So I really want to tap it because I don't
Speaker 3: know what I'm ever going to get this opportunity again,
Speaker 3: but to tap into that mindset of this is just
Speaker 3: the beginning. What does that mean for you? And where
Speaker 3: do you get that consistent drive and determination Because on
Speaker 3: one level, you've made it right. You have a great family,
Speaker 3: you've got great friends, including me, You've got everything that
Speaker 3: you need, but you are you know, you continue to
Speaker 3: reinvent yourself. So what is your driver? Where does that
Speaker 3: come from?
Speaker 1: I really believe that if you get too familiar with greatness,
Speaker 1: beauty or success, that makes you feel unsuccessful. And what
Speaker 1: I mean by that and this idea of just the
Speaker 1: beginning is I look at my life today as if
Speaker 1: I would if I was looking at it from twenty
Speaker 1: years ago. So when we were sitting up there in
Speaker 1: the iheartbooth just upstairs right now, and there's a picture
Speaker 1: of my podcast art next to like Malcolm Gladwell, who
Speaker 1: I love and I grew up reading, and he's been
Speaker 1: a guest on the show. And then there's Breakfast Club
Speaker 1: with Charlemagne, who I love, and there's just all these
Speaker 1: amazing people. I have to look at that from eighteen
Speaker 1: year old Ja, yes, and twenty five year old Ja,
Speaker 1: because when I look at it as that, my mind
Speaker 1: is blown and I'm like, no way, Like I can't
Speaker 1: believe this is my life. And when I sat down
Speaker 1: on the stage, I was like I took a moment
Speaker 1: just personally. It wasn't in front of it was internally
Speaker 1: on just like how grateful I was to be able
Speaker 1: to have this opportunity. And my point is I have
Speaker 1: to look at it from the kid who watched Fresh Prints.
Speaker 1: I have to look at it from the kid who
Speaker 1: use this person's product. I have to look at it
Speaker 1: from the kid who watched the tennis match and now
Speaker 1: gets to interview Novakdjokovic. I've got to watch it as
Speaker 1: the kid who watched a movie and now gets to
Speaker 1: sit down with Michael B. Jordan, Like I have to
Speaker 1: watch it from that perspective. But if I only look
Speaker 1: at it from this perspective of oh, here I am,
Speaker 1: this is my life. Now, this is normality, all of
Speaker 1: a sudden it will start to feel really insignificant. And
Speaker 1: I think that's what happens a lot where whether you
Speaker 1: get to wake up and look at a beautiful view
Speaker 1: every morning, looking at your partner that once you believed
Speaker 1: when you first met them was the most beautiful person
Speaker 1: on the planet, if you don't look at that way again,
Speaker 1: no wonder you get distracted and whatever else. Is so
Speaker 1: for me, it's always looking at it from it's just
Speaker 1: the beginning, in the sense of let me fast forward,
Speaker 1: let me rewind, and then the other it's just the
Speaker 1: beginning is going I've got to have the beginner's mindset
Speaker 1: even in this moment, because otherwise this is all going
Speaker 1: to go away. I've got a tree to it.
Speaker 3: I've got to have the same hunger.
Speaker 2: I've got to have the same hunger as I had
Speaker 2: on day one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right, and
Speaker 3: I've seen I've seen that if you get too comfortable
Speaker 3: in any given situation, very quickly, that dies and you
Speaker 3: just have to keep doing. You have to keep doing
Speaker 3: different things. What I wanted to ask about that was
Speaker 3: how do you go and apply that? So I think
Speaker 3: for you, people listening may think, well, jeah, that's all
Speaker 3: right for you, because you know, every every month you
Speaker 3: seem to have another epic moment, and yeah, sure you
Speaker 3: can reflect back on eighteen year old Jay. So practically,
Speaker 3: what does that look like for someone is and you
Speaker 3: gave an insight into that, maybe it's your partner or
Speaker 3: your kid's eyes, or you know, the view of just
Speaker 3: you know, walking past the tree that you see every
Speaker 3: single day with gratitude. But essentially is what we're saying,
Speaker 3: It is having real gratitude for what you have and
Speaker 3: and zoning into that in a real way.
Speaker 1: I think it's romanticizing your life. You have to be
Speaker 1: really present in it to see how beautiful every moment is,
Speaker 1: and not every moment is beautiful. But I think when
Speaker 1: things were tough, i'd say something else. I wouldn't be
Speaker 1: saying this, like, I don't think when things are tough,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, be grateful for what you have. I
Speaker 1: think that can be bad advice and can kind of
Speaker 1: be off putting as well. When things were bad, I'd
Speaker 1: be like, I can't wait to tell this story one day.
Speaker 1: So when I was going through the failures and things
Speaker 1: were going wrong, I'd say, I can't wait to tell
Speaker 1: this story one day when I get to the other side. Yes,
Speaker 1: And that gives you momentum to get to the other
Speaker 1: side because you can't wait to tell that story. And
Speaker 1: so I think it's a mix of mindsets and tools
Speaker 1: that you bring out in different moments. So when things
Speaker 1: are going well, slow down and smell the roses. There's
Speaker 1: a reason why I smell the flowers. There's a reason
Speaker 1: why that phrase is famous because when things are going well,
Speaker 1: you can just move through them like it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: But when things are going badly, if you say to
Speaker 1: yourself I can't wait to tell this story on the
Speaker 1: other side. All of a sudden, you get momentum from
Speaker 1: the other side rather than being like, oh god, this
Speaker 1: is the worst thing I've ever gone through.
Speaker 3: But do you feel that you do celebrate your successes?
Speaker 3: So we talk about football a lot, and we talk
Speaker 3: about sport generally quite a lot. And we talk about
Speaker 3: you know, world champions who have won Premier League after
Speaker 3: Premier League and they say they lifted the cup and
Speaker 3: then immediately it was like I enjoyed it for like
Speaker 3: ten seconds and then it was on to the next thing.
Speaker 3: So what does it mean to celebrate success? How do
Speaker 3: you celebrate success?
Speaker 1: I used to have an amazing football coach that would say,
Speaker 1: if you win, celebrate for a night and then get
Speaker 1: back to training.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: And if you lose, cry for a night and then
Speaker 1: get back to training great. And I love that advice
Speaker 1: because it put the emphasis on get back to training yes.
Speaker 1: And So I've had some amazing successes in my life
Speaker 1: and I don't feel they've been fleeting, but they've just
Speaker 1: been a marker that you're on the path. And the
Speaker 1: greatest success, the greatest joy you're celebrating success comes on
Speaker 1: the pursuit.
Speaker 3: It's the journey.
Speaker 2: It is that journey like that, oh you know, it's
Speaker 2: a journey, not the end. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's like that is the part that you
Speaker 1: have to celebrate. And that's what I mean, celebrating the
Speaker 1: moment and going this makes my story better. Celebrating the
Speaker 1: moment and saying I'm going to stop and appreciate this
Speaker 1: moment of sitting on stage. Let me stop and appreciate
Speaker 1: the fact that this is happening for me. And by
Speaker 1: the way, sure it's easier now, but all of those
Speaker 1: things were happening. You know. It wasn't like the first
Speaker 1: day I did it. It was this either going back
Speaker 1: to the right the beginning, when I've loaded my first
Speaker 1: video and it got you know, five hundred views in
Speaker 1: my first month on YouTube, by the thousand subscribers.
Speaker 2: I was so happy about that.
Speaker 3: I remember I never looked.
Speaker 1: At the thousand subscribers and went, why is it not
Speaker 1: a million? And so it was there then, and I
Speaker 1: remember our friends were like, well done, mate, this is
Speaker 1: probably it. Yeah, no, no, no, it was this is
Speaker 1: probably it.
Speaker 3: No, I don't swearming you've done it as you've hit
Speaker 3: the cat.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So but yeah, anyway, we could do this for hours.
Speaker 1: I've got to run to main stage now.
Speaker 2: None that.
Speaker 1: I am so grateful to you for joining me on
Speaker 1: a last minute request. It's been a really fun conversation.
Speaker 1: We'll have to do this again. Amazing, And I'm so
Speaker 1: glad you shared your journey because I think there's so
Speaker 1: much for everyone to learn with whether our journeys are
Speaker 1: public or private, whether whether they're you know, in the.
Speaker 2: Public eye or not.
Speaker 1: We all have to make these decisions, and I think
Speaker 1: you shared so many great valuable insights today.
Speaker 2: So thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Main Stage weights mayeah, that's true, that's true.
Speaker 1: If you love this episode, you love my conversation with
Speaker 1: doctor Joe Dispenser on why stress and overthinking negatively impacts
Speaker 1: your brain and heart and how to change your habits
Speaker 1: that are on autopilot.
Speaker 2: Listen to it right now.
Speaker 1: How many times do we have to forget until we
Speaker 1: start forgetting and start remembering, that's the moment of change.
Speaker 2: Who cares how many times
Speaker 1: You fell off the bicycle if you ride the bicycle,
Speaker 1: now you ride the bike.