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Speaker 2: All right, let's move on to this interview. Let's do it. Please,
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Heat Check our special guest, Rich Hoffman
Speaker 2: one F friend of the show, former writer at The
Speaker 2: Athletic and all Things Philly. He lives and breathes Philadelphia sports.
Speaker 2: He also has a daily newsletter, the pH l Y
Speaker 2: Philly Daily Newsletter. He also has a great podcast on
Speaker 2: the same site. Check out his Twitter, Rich Underscore Hoffman
Speaker 2: h O F M A N N one A F
Speaker 2: two ends very confusing, Keep on up with all of
Speaker 2: his doings. Rich is great, he gets it. Conversation was awesome,
Speaker 2: really broke down the hardened situation to a t. So
Speaker 2: let's jump into it. All right, let's welcome to the show,
Speaker 2: Rich Hoffman. It has been a minute. The last time
Speaker 2: I talked to Rich, it was still We're still firmly
Speaker 2: embedded in the Simmons era. Rich Hoffman with one F
Speaker 2: go find him on his Twitter, Rich Underscore Hoffman one F.
Speaker 2: He also has a newsletter, pH l Y Daily newsletter.
Speaker 2: Also there's podcast, so go check it out to find him.
Speaker 2: Philadelphia seventy six Ers, but also all Things Philadelphia will
Speaker 2: call that the team de joor is the Sixers. Thank
Speaker 2: you so much and welcome to the show.
Speaker 3: Good to be with you, Trista.
Speaker 4: Guess it was another crisis we were dealing with whenever.
Speaker 3: That was a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2: I'm curious. That was the first thing that I thought
Speaker 2: of when I knew you were going to come on,
Speaker 2: was how does that era, in terms of how the
Speaker 2: fan base felt, how the people around the team felt, compare,
Speaker 2: because it was obviously very toxic situation with Ben and
Speaker 2: the way that it ended, How does that compare to
Speaker 2: the way that things flamed out in the Harden era?
Speaker 4: I think it was. It was pretty different, honestly, Like
Speaker 4: I think, like you said, toxic is a good word.
Speaker 4: I think there was a lot of emotion on both sides,
Speaker 4: you know. I think with the way Ben and Clutch
Speaker 4: were kind of handling themselves that year where he clearly
Speaker 4: didn't want to play, so that was obviously different with
Speaker 4: James James.
Speaker 3: I don't think James wanted to.
Speaker 4: Play either, but there was the actual threat of him
Speaker 4: playing like he could play. I'm not sure Ben in
Speaker 4: retrospect was even ready to play at that point. But yeah,
Speaker 4: like I think, you know, Philadelphia, very big sports city,
Speaker 4: very passionate, all those things. I think Ben elicited a
Speaker 4: lot of those passions because let's be real, like he
Speaker 4: was a fan favorite at times, like they drafted him
Speaker 4: number one overall, he was a flawed but very good
Speaker 4: player for a couple of years, played his butt off
Speaker 4: every game. Obviously shooting thing, we can leave that to
Speaker 4: the side.
Speaker 3: But I don't know.
Speaker 4: James Harden, I think in retrospect was kind of a
Speaker 4: mercenary for these guys, right, And I think the more
Speaker 4: you look at James Harden's career, it's a little bit sad,
Speaker 4: Like what fan base is going in to bat for
Speaker 4: him after this is all over, you know what, Like
Speaker 4: what is the group of fans besides like his own
Speaker 4: personal fans, which I've encountered a bunch of them online
Speaker 4: over the years, but like, is it Houston? I guess
Speaker 4: it must be. But he kind of left them for
Speaker 4: you know, he left them for dead, and it wasn't
Speaker 4: a great like spot to be in. That was not
Speaker 4: a great ending, how he handled himself there. So I
Speaker 4: guess my point is like there was a little bit
Speaker 4: of apathy in Philadelphia for this, Like, yes, people were
Speaker 4: sick of James Harden. Yes, people just wanted him to go,
Speaker 4: but it was different this time. It was like, you know,
Speaker 4: I don't think when James Harden comes back, he'll get booed,
Speaker 4: but I don't think the same level of vitriol will
Speaker 4: be there like we saw with Ben Simmons. And I
Speaker 4: think that's almost a negative. Like I think the fact
Speaker 4: that that happened for Ben was more like, Okay, we
Speaker 4: used to love you, and I think in retrospect, James
Speaker 4: Harden felt like a hired gun and yeah, you know,
Speaker 4: obviously this is the third time he's done it in
Speaker 4: four years, and it was just kind of a you know,
Speaker 4: like a joyless like few months here where it was like,
Speaker 4: all right.
Speaker 3: Can we just get home with this because we don't
Speaker 3: want to deal with this guy anymore.
Speaker 2: It's funny too, because the worst thing you can be
Speaker 2: as a Philadelphia sports fan, I'm sure, right, is dispassionate,
Speaker 2: is like love him or hate him, but like to
Speaker 2: have no opinion and just be like mah, I'm kind
Speaker 2: of ready for this to be over. Feels like probably
Speaker 2: the worst place that a fan base can be that's
Speaker 2: as excitable, and we'll call it like deeply connected to
Speaker 2: the team as Sixers fans are.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and that's what it was.
Speaker 4: And you know, I think James is kind of he's
Speaker 4: a little bit of a dispassionate guy in general too,
Speaker 4: Like he clearly had his moments where he doesn't quite
Speaker 4: play as hard. I mean I thought, like, you know,
Speaker 4: it's funny, like there was some commentary in recent weeks
Speaker 4: months like this guy isn't even any good anymore. I'm like, well, okay,
Speaker 4: we can pump the brakes on that. He's pretty damn
Speaker 4: good last year. I get it, the end of the
Speaker 4: Boston series. Not great, that's the story of his career,
Speaker 4: but like, pretty darn good player last year. But yeah,
Speaker 4: he just didn't quite connec with the fan base the
Speaker 4: same way. And I think you're absolutely right, Like in Philadelphia,
Speaker 4: like the worst thing to be is apathetic, and when
Speaker 4: people are just kind of you know, I've been around
Speaker 4: this my whole life, Like I've lived here my whole life.
Speaker 4: These are my friends, my family, all of these people.
Speaker 4: If they're just kind of very quickly calling you a
Speaker 4: loser and just saying get out of here, like I
Speaker 4: feel like we usually can do better, and that is
Speaker 4: a sign that maybe the good times were not quite
Speaker 4: as good as they were with Ben Simmons, because I
Speaker 4: think the other thing with Ben too is like when
Speaker 4: he was good here, like the Sixers had a lot
Speaker 4: of hope, right they had foults, they had all these
Speaker 4: draft picks, they had these assets, all of these things
Speaker 4: that they've completely blown by now, but there was like
Speaker 4: a hope that they could be the team for the
Speaker 4: next five or six years. And he was a part
Speaker 4: of that. But James not exactly the same type of thing.
Speaker 4: So we get to the point where, you know, people
Speaker 4: are just happy that Daryl Morey has kind of moved
Speaker 4: on it. It kind of was like a great trade.
Speaker 4: Who'd we get kind of thing, I feel like from
Speaker 4: a lot of people. I didn't view it that way,
Speaker 4: but that's kind of how people felt here.
Speaker 2: We'll table that for a second. I do want to
Speaker 2: get your opinion on the trade. You know, I heard
Speaker 2: this not long ago, was but last year and maybe
Speaker 2: March or April, and they said, Trista, you know that
Speaker 2: like whenever the Sixers aren't playing, Like when it's not
Speaker 2: game day, if James can be in Houston, he is
Speaker 2: in Houston as we speak. Was that known? And that's insane,
Speaker 2: Like that's insane for a player to never be in
Speaker 2: the city that they played for, Like either they're either
Speaker 2: on the road, they're at practice, or they're back in
Speaker 2: the city that they you know, are connected to. Like
Speaker 2: that's crazy to me. Was that something that was public
Speaker 2: or like insider knowledge that oh, yeah, this guy's just
Speaker 2: because that to me was a telltale sign that this
Speaker 2: guy's just not connected to the city at all.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's also part of it too. Yeah, I
Speaker 4: think his his off court habits have been made public
Speaker 4: and in some sorts, and yeah, that was part of
Speaker 4: the deal with the team, right like where he you know,
Speaker 4: Darryl moriy is kind of known what James hard is
Speaker 4: like now. I guess the difference is when he first
Speaker 4: had him, he was actually in Houston, So okay, yeah,
Speaker 4: he might be going to the club at night, but
Speaker 4: at least he's still in the city. Yeah, if you
Speaker 4: and you know, when you're on the beat, there are
Speaker 4: kind of different tricks where you know, there are some
Speaker 4: different Instagram accounts you can follow and kind of see
Speaker 4: some of his friends and be like, oh, okay, that's
Speaker 4: where he is tonight, Like in general like that, those
Speaker 4: type of things. Yeah, that happened a lot, and uh yeah,
Speaker 4: I think that's the that's always going to be the
Speaker 4: case with James Harden. The Clippers are going to have
Speaker 4: to deal with that to a degree as well. And
Speaker 4: I think for the most part, the Sixers were happy.
Speaker 4: They were like, look, like the Bensimon's thing was crazy.
Speaker 4: We needed a good player and we're going to deal
Speaker 4: with this guy like warts and all. And I think
Speaker 4: on the court it was it was pretty good. It
Speaker 4: wasn't perfect, but it was pretty good for a lot
Speaker 4: of the time. But yeah, it was knowledge. Yeah, within
Speaker 4: the team. I think even in the public it seeped
Speaker 4: out a little bit. Yeah, Yeah, people knew that. You know,
Speaker 4: he would go back to Houston a lot, he would
Speaker 4: party a lot, those type of things, like but that's
Speaker 4: that's just who James Harden is.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's that goes with the territory. I think
Speaker 2: for la there's probably a little bit of solace in
Speaker 2: knowing that that's the place that he's from, right and
Speaker 2: so he'll probably stick around in La more given that
Speaker 2: it's a homecoming for him. And it's insane to me.
Speaker 2: I was thinking about this today. Insane that Kawhi, PG, Harden,
Speaker 2: and Russ all Los Angeles legends, all playing probably for
Speaker 2: the team that they didn't grow up rooting for, but
Speaker 2: still still fucking awesome when you think about it from
Speaker 2: like a human perspective.
Speaker 4: Totally like complete hotbed of talent in southern California, Like
Speaker 4: just great high school hoops over there, and yeah, pretty
Speaker 4: much all those guys around the same age just getting
Speaker 4: to play together. Yeah, playing for the Clippers, which is funny.
Speaker 4: I'm sure they probably didn't think about that as kids.
Speaker 4: And yeah, maybe maybe James does stay around there. But
Speaker 4: I guess my thing with him is, again, I still
Speaker 4: think he's very good. I think he's probably not like
Speaker 4: as good as he thinks he is to pull this
Speaker 4: whole thing, like I felt like he was kind of
Speaker 4: putting his foot down like it was twenty twenty, like
Speaker 4: he was MVP level Harden, I don't think he's at
Speaker 4: that level, but he clearly got his way here. I
Speaker 4: just wonder like if he does keep doing this, like
Speaker 4: is there a point where like he falls off a cliff, like,
Speaker 4: you know, is there is there?
Speaker 2: I think it's now. I think it's now.
Speaker 3: We'll see, you know, we'll see. I don't know it's
Speaker 3: you know. It's funny.
Speaker 4: In the past couple of months, my favorite player of
Speaker 4: all time just just because of where I grew up,
Speaker 4: and you know, the team I rooted for growing up
Speaker 4: was Alan Iverson and obviously very flawed player in some respects,
Speaker 4: certainly like to get after it off the court a
Speaker 4: little bit. But there was a time when Alan Iverson
Speaker 4: was like, you know, almost leading the league in scoring
Speaker 4: in Denver and then like two years later out of
Speaker 4: the league, like just just completely gone. And I do think,
Speaker 4: like James Harden, he's ahead of where Iverson is at
Speaker 4: that point, just because I think he's such a good
Speaker 4: passer and that has kind of aged a little bit
Speaker 4: better than AI. But but I do hope he realizes, like, hey, man,
Speaker 4: like there was one team that was going to trade
Speaker 4: for you, just one Like I really if he did
Speaker 4: not accept that that player option this year and he
Speaker 4: just went out in a free agency, I would have
Speaker 4: been really curious to see, like somebody would have picked
Speaker 4: him up. Obviously, like he's too good not to get
Speaker 4: picked up by somebody, But like, I think that market
Speaker 4: is so much narrower for a million reasons, some of
Speaker 4: them not his fault, but a lot of them. Yeah,
Speaker 4: his fault like that that he has not made himself
Speaker 4: kind of a more willing role player on and off
Speaker 4: the court, those type of things. So we'll see. This
Speaker 4: feels like his last chance, though, like to make something happen,
Speaker 4: to play on a team this good and potentially to
Speaker 4: get paid.
Speaker 3: We'll see what Bomber does in the off season.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So when the trade came down, I was super surprised.
Speaker 2: It came down super late at night too. The reporting
Speaker 2: is that Darryl Moury was sort of circumvented by Josh Harris,
Speaker 2: owner of the Sixers, and Steve Baumer. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you have other insight into that, but just kind
Speaker 2: of wanted to get your thoughts on just that, your
Speaker 2: general tenor from Philadelphia's perspective on that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, as far as the ownership, I mean, owners are
Speaker 4: involved in everything, so like there is a degree of
Speaker 4: that in pretty much any transaction you make. Now, how
Speaker 4: much were they involved here, I don't exactly know, like
Speaker 4: different people will tell you different things. I think some
Speaker 4: people would point to, okay, like where did that report
Speaker 4: come from? Like where are those places?
Speaker 3: Maybe it's James.
Speaker 4: Harden leaking that to try and make Daryl Morey.
Speaker 3: Look a little bit worse.
Speaker 4: I will tell you though, just looking at what that
Speaker 4: trade package is, and I don't think it's terrible by
Speaker 4: any means, Like I don't think it's awful. But I
Speaker 4: am a little surprised that Daryl Morey didn't hold out
Speaker 4: because I covered this team two years ago when Joel
Speaker 4: Embiid was, you know, playing at an MVP pace and
Speaker 4: literally everybody was screaming after every forty ball he would
Speaker 4: throw up, can you trade Ben Simmons?
Speaker 3: Please?
Speaker 4: Can you not waste a year of this guy's prime?
Speaker 4: So I was a little surprised that, you know, in
Speaker 4: week two of the season, like, okay, this is when
Speaker 4: the trade got made. And look, it makes sense from
Speaker 4: the Clippers standpoint, if they were gonna do it, you
Speaker 4: gotta do it early in the year. Like I saw
Speaker 4: James Harden get integrated into a team later in the year.
Speaker 4: That that doesn't work.
Speaker 3: You need a full.
Speaker 4: Year to like figure out how to play together or
Speaker 4: what rotations those type of things. So I get that,
Speaker 4: and I get it from the Sixers standpoint, because like
Speaker 4: they didn't want James Harden to play for them. Like
Speaker 4: they're actually playing okay at the beginning of the year.
Speaker 4: They have this new coach, new system, Tyreese is playing great,
Speaker 4: all those things, and James Harden, like, was he gonna
Speaker 4: just do the end of the rockets and nets thing
Speaker 4: where he you know, he runs up and down the
Speaker 4: court and he plays like absolutely zero defense and he's
Speaker 4: basically just tanking on the court. I mean, that would
Speaker 4: have been it would have been interesting to watch for
Speaker 4: sure for me, But I guess if you're like in
Speaker 4: the Sixers organization, that's probably something you don't want to
Speaker 4: see happen. So I was a little bit surprised though,
Speaker 4: that Maury kind of quote unquote settled for this. And
Speaker 4: you know what, maybe and I think he'd probably tell
Speaker 4: you this, Maybe he got to the point where he's like, look, man,
Speaker 4: we're dealing with one team. Like at some point, I
Speaker 4: think you do kind of just have to settle for
Speaker 4: the type of trade because as much leverage as we
Speaker 4: have on them that they want to make James a
Speaker 4: part of their team and figure out what works and
Speaker 4: what doesn't. Like, we have one team we're dealing with,
Speaker 4: Like they if they leave, we are completely.
Speaker 3: Stuck with this guy.
Speaker 4: So that's ultimately what I think happened. I mean, obviously
Speaker 4: he didn't get Terrence Man, he didn't get that other
Speaker 4: second round pick or that second first round pick. He
Speaker 4: was looking for the twenty thirty one. You know, he
Speaker 4: got some decent stuff in there, and obviously they have
Speaker 4: this flexibility to make some moves, whether it's this season
Speaker 4: or in the offseason when when all of these contracts.
Speaker 3: Expire or whatever.
Speaker 4: But yeah, like I was a little surprised because it
Speaker 4: was not like when you looked at the trade package,
Speaker 4: it felt like something he might have been willing to
Speaker 4: hold out for more. But maybe it was just a
Speaker 4: different situation than the Ben Simmons thing, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's interesting it felt like there was less stubbornness,
Speaker 2: I guess on Darryl Moury's part, because you know, Ben
Speaker 2: Simmons and Daryl really aren't connected in any emotional way.
Speaker 2: There is no goodwill there. The way that Ben kind
Speaker 2: of sold it on the season and how aggressive he
Speaker 2: was felt like maybe that was gonna and probably worth
Speaker 2: more money, right, like just longer team control, younger, higher upside,
Speaker 2: more teams that could potentially take a swing on him.
Speaker 2: I'm curious though, because it seemed like Daryl Mourray was
Speaker 2: in the same camp about Ben, which is, we need
Speaker 2: to get better. We need to get pieces that get
Speaker 2: us a high level star to pair with our young
Speaker 2: guys in Joel. Who is that now? Given what they
Speaker 2: got in this trade. And I like Nick Batuma a
Speaker 2: lot right, good point of attack, defender, can shoot, can
Speaker 2: play small ball, five, play the four, play the three.
Speaker 2: You know, very underrated, little old But what do they
Speaker 2: have now outside of cap space to really make a
Speaker 2: move this year to add to this team being a
Speaker 2: legit threat to Milwaukee or Boston.
Speaker 4: So I agree with you and that that's kind of
Speaker 4: I think the way you have to view this trade
Speaker 4: was like the way I looked at it initially, when
Speaker 4: you just look at the pieces they got, the players,
Speaker 4: the draft picks, I was like, that's a cold B
Speaker 4: B minus something like that, like that's not bad, like
Speaker 4: and maybe credit to Daryl for settling for that, because
Speaker 4: maybe it wasn't gonna get better. But the way it's viewed,
Speaker 4: and Daryl said this yesterday at a press conference, is like,
Speaker 4: this is a two part trade, Like this is the
Speaker 4: first part of it, and you really can't judge what
Speaker 4: happens until you see what we do with all this stuff.
Speaker 4: That said, I am like a little bit skeptical just
Speaker 4: because I like it's publicly available information. You could just
Speaker 4: google it, like it'll be on hoops Hype or whatever,
Speaker 4: like twenty twenty four free agents, Like, look at that class.
Speaker 4: It's not the you know, it's not the Lebron Dwayne Wade,
Speaker 4: Chris Bosh twenty ten class.
Speaker 3: Like, it's not. You can look at the names.
Speaker 4: It's like Pascal Siakam, it's the two Clippers guys who
Speaker 4: I think they're gonna resign. But that's like the players
Speaker 4: on the list, you know, it's like, yeah, it's like
Speaker 4: the Raptors guys. It's like og and and all of
Speaker 4: these kuys. So it's not a very inspiring crop. Unfortunately
Speaker 4: for the Sixers. Tobias Harris is like way higher on
Speaker 4: that list than he probably should be. Like, it's not
Speaker 4: a very strong class. So I think what the Sixers
Speaker 4: would say is they can do two things here. They
Speaker 4: can go into the offseason and they can have like
Speaker 4: fifty five million dollars worth of cap space. They they
Speaker 4: did not extend Tyres Maxy this past offseason, keeping his
Speaker 4: cap hold low. He's gonna make a boatload of money
Speaker 4: next year. But they can at least like pay the
Speaker 4: other guys first and then pay him on top and
Speaker 4: be over the cap just because he was such a
Speaker 4: late pick four years ago.
Speaker 3: They could do that.
Speaker 4: Or they can go into this season and say, look,
Speaker 4: we have a bunch of these expiring contracts, and they're
Speaker 4: like you said, it's like baitoom, it's Roco, It's it's
Speaker 4: Marcus Morris. Let's say even two of the three of
Speaker 4: those guys are somewhat playable for a team. But the
Speaker 4: good news for the team that would trade for them
Speaker 4: is like, look, they're off your books after this year,
Speaker 4: like they're expiring, so they're not gonna be like an
Speaker 4: anchor on your books for three four years down the road. Plus,
Speaker 4: the Sixers have three tradeable first round picks now, and
Speaker 4: I think the one thing Daryl can at least, I
Speaker 4: think take a little bit of a victory lap on
Speaker 4: like that twenty twenty eight Clippers pick that could be
Speaker 4: a pretty valuable trade ship. Now, I don't think the
Speaker 4: Sixers want to make that pick obviously, because they want
Speaker 4: to trade it to get somebody for Embiid. But like
Speaker 4: you look, look at the ages of all those guys
Speaker 4: on the Clippers, like and so they're going to resign
Speaker 4: Kawhi pg Russ Harden.
Speaker 3: Those guys are going to be forty years old.
Speaker 4: At that point, and they don't have really any picks
Speaker 4: to trade. On top of that, I know Steve Bomber
Speaker 4: is a great owner in terms of just he's willing
Speaker 4: to spend anything. He's richest guy in the NBA, all
Speaker 4: those things. At some point, you don't have stuff that
Speaker 4: other teams want, though, So I think that pick does
Speaker 4: have some value, and then the Sixers have I think
Speaker 4: it's like a twenty thirty pick of theirs, which I
Speaker 4: think if you're another team, you big, oh yeah, I'd
Speaker 4: love to short that team. Like, look, the Sixers, if
Speaker 4: we're patient, either use that pick when Embiid is super old,
Speaker 4: or you know, maybe we could trade that to another team.
Speaker 4: So I think they would use those expiring contracts and
Speaker 4: then their their picks to try and acquire a player
Speaker 4: this year. I think that is ideally what they'd like
Speaker 4: to do, because Joel Embiid, I think, is sitting there like, hey,
Speaker 4: can we at least try to win something this year?
Speaker 4: Like you know this idea that we are, you know,
Speaker 4: the number four, the number three seed, but way below Boston,
Speaker 4: way below Milwaukee, with no shot, Like I'm thirty years old,
Speaker 4: I would like to actually have a puncher's chance to
Speaker 4: advance in the playoffs. So that is what they are
Speaker 4: saying they're going to do. But like, who is the player, right?
Speaker 4: You know, who's the player?
Speaker 3: Does it?
Speaker 4: Donovan Mitchell? Does he get you know, disgruntled in Cleveland.
Speaker 4: I don't know what the right answer is. It is
Speaker 4: not obvious to me, and I think, like what the
Speaker 4: the path that Daryl Morey took is probably the right one,
Speaker 4: but it's also an uncertain one, like I have no
Speaker 4: idea that the answers at the end of this cap space,
Speaker 4: at the end of this expiring contract, draft pick rainbow
Speaker 4: is going to be like a good thing.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, neither. And I guess the question that I
Speaker 2: have too for you is I think the thing and
Speaker 2: maybe I don't know the player it himself but I
Speaker 2: think what Philly needs is what Philly has already had,
Speaker 2: which is someone that you rely on in the postseason
Speaker 2: to be the clutch bucket getter, right the Jimmy Butler
Speaker 2: and obviously that's done, that's gone, like that just would
Speaker 2: never come back, as much as I think Joelle and
Speaker 2: Jimmy would like to reunite, but that's what I feel
Speaker 2: is missing. Maybe Tyrese becomes that guy at some point,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, Dame would have been an
Speaker 2: obvious clutch guy to get if, for example, Portland didn't
Speaker 2: make that move right now and he's still sitting on
Speaker 2: Portland's books, maybe you trade the three first round picks
Speaker 2: for him and maybe Tobias and maybe like Jaden Springer
Speaker 2: or something. I don't know if that's enough, but like
Speaker 2: a clutch down to the wire, dude is the guy
Speaker 2: that I feel like Philly has been missing since Jimmy Butler.
Speaker 2: Is that what you think? And do you think Donovan
Speaker 2: Mitchell is that guy? Because I don't know.
Speaker 4: I don't know either, And I think the like like
Speaker 4: Jimmy would be the perfect one because I think, ideally
Speaker 4: you have a great center of this ascending six to
Speaker 4: two scoring guard. You'd want somebody in the middle of
Speaker 4: those two, right, You'd want somebody on the wing, play
Speaker 4: a little defense. Those things Donovan Mitchell would not provide that. Obviously,
Speaker 4: there is a finite amount of star players available at
Speaker 4: any time in the NBA, so you're not always going
Speaker 4: to be able to check every single box.
Speaker 2: And some star players aren't clutch guys. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: Zack Lavine is not that dude, I know.
Speaker 4: And he's another name that has been mentioned a lot.
Speaker 4: I would not be for that, just because I think
Speaker 4: Tyres already gives you a lot of what he does
Speaker 4: and you know the cost. And I think the defense
Speaker 4: wouldn't be that great either, And I think that's part
Speaker 4: of the issue is that. Look, I love Joel Embiid,
Speaker 4: like I think everything that this franchise has done around
Speaker 4: him has been like malpractice for the most part. Like
Speaker 4: he's just seen so many failed draft picks, so many
Speaker 4: terrible trades, just poor free agents signs. They stuck him
Speaker 4: with Al Horford one year, which was horrible. So many
Speaker 4: things that just have not been his fault. That said,
Speaker 4: the one thing that is on his resume is he
Speaker 4: has not been as good of a playoff player as
Speaker 4: he's been in the regular season, and it's like you said,
Speaker 4: like he has not been the clutch bucket getter.
Speaker 3: He has not been. He just struggles with double teams.
Speaker 4: Like I thought that the Boston series last year was
Speaker 4: so frustrating because he had kind of lessened his turnovers
Speaker 4: pretty much every single season of his career. I mean,
Speaker 4: when he first started, he was throwing the ball into
Speaker 4: the eighth row every second play, and he just gradually
Speaker 4: got better and better and better and better. And I'm
Speaker 4: not saying he was Yokich in terms of passing. He wasn't,
Speaker 4: but he certainly made what was like a glaring weakness
Speaker 4: not quite as bad. And then they get in the
Speaker 4: playoff against Boston last year and it's like twenty seventeen
Speaker 4: twenty eighteen all over again, Like he just completely regrets.
Speaker 4: So look, I think some of that is is going
Speaker 4: to have to come from him, and I think Nick
Speaker 4: Nurse is trying to install kind of a different offensive
Speaker 4: system where there's a little more movement around him, empowering MAXI.
Speaker 4: They're doing a little bit more dribble handoff type stuff.
Speaker 4: Maybe that is a little bit of the the solution there,
Speaker 4: but I agree with you, like they need somebody else
Speaker 4: who can get buckets Layton games, and I think Tyreese
Speaker 4: can probably do that a little bit, but yeah, somebody
Speaker 4: in between. And it's funny, you know we mentioned the
Speaker 4: people who are available. One of the main targets that
Speaker 4: people say is Ognunobi, who I think, like, wow, I
Speaker 4: mean that would be great defensively, like, man, he could
Speaker 4: guard the other team's best guy, but that's not him offensively,
Speaker 4: And if you push all your chips in for og,
Speaker 4: it's like, man, that's a lot of pressure on Tyrese
Speaker 4: Maxi to score and get buckets Layton games. So that's
Speaker 4: kind of it's like, like we said, that's kind of
Speaker 4: the issues that these teams that the Sixers are dealing with. Yes,
Speaker 4: they have a lot of flexibility, Yes they have some
Speaker 4: picks now to deal with, and they have some things
Speaker 4: to trade, but like, what are the right answers here?
Speaker 4: I don't exactly see who it is, you.
Speaker 2: Know what it could be before we switch topics, because
Speaker 2: I do want to get your thoughts on Nick Nurse.
Speaker 2: It might be and you could probably get them for
Speaker 2: the cheap. Demarta Rosen to Mario Rosen at one point
Speaker 2: fourth quarter clutch gene. I think two years ago he
Speaker 2: was the clutchest player in the NBA. He he's a
Speaker 2: bit older, so you're not gonna have to give up
Speaker 2: a ton for him. Yes, maybe Chicago wants to extend him,
Speaker 2: but why Chicago's a dumpster fire. Feels like Damar would
Speaker 2: be open to it. Feels like Embiide would be open
Speaker 2: to it. Awesome culture guy.
Speaker 4: I've look, I've seen it live. Like I think I
Speaker 4: went to Chicago both times the Sixers played them two
Speaker 4: years ago when Sixers won those games. But Tomorrow was
Speaker 4: spectacular in those games. And obviously when he's got it's
Speaker 4: a little bit of a clunky fit, like he doesn't
Speaker 4: shoot a lot of threes, has the ball in his
Speaker 4: hands a lot. But yeah, maybe, and I think maybe
Speaker 4: that might be the answer moving forward to maybe it's
Speaker 4: somebody like Damar, And then if you get Tomorrow, maybe
Speaker 4: you have a little bit of cap space left over,
Speaker 4: so you don't go, you know, huge for one star,
Speaker 4: but you're you're able to get kind of deeper around
Speaker 4: those guys, and maybe you know you can wield a
Speaker 4: little bit more than the mid level exception, so you
Speaker 4: can get kind of the best role players on the market,
Speaker 4: and maybe that's answer. And I think the one thing
Speaker 4: for six Ers fans, Daryl Morey has had a little
Speaker 4: bit of a tough year. I would say, getting called
Speaker 4: a liar by James Harden pretty rough. All of those
Speaker 4: things not not Daryl's best thing here, even if the
Speaker 4: hardened thing kind of blew up in his face. I'm
Speaker 4: still I'm still a believer in him. Like, I still
Speaker 4: think he's pretty damn good at his job. And I
Speaker 4: think whatever the right path is here, like whatever the
Speaker 4: most creative thing, and you know, I'm sure Joel will
Speaker 4: be kind of voicing his you know, his wishes and
Speaker 4: all those things. Like I'm pretty confident that he'll figure
Speaker 4: out whatever the best path is. I don't know exactly
Speaker 4: what that is, but I have confidence in the guy
Speaker 4: kind of right running the ship here.
Speaker 2: In terms of this season, I am super impressed with
Speaker 2: how things are operating, just much better flow than I imagine.
Speaker 2: Like the off season wasn't really that great. I didn't
Speaker 2: add a lot of pieces, there wasn't a lot of fanfare, nothing,
Speaker 2: I guess fundamentally changed. And yet you guys are starting
Speaker 2: off hotter than you know expected, right, Your third in
Speaker 2: offensive rating and net rating fifth, and effective field goal
Speaker 2: percentage second, true field goal percentage, twelfth in defensive rating,
Speaker 2: so that's not falling off. You're leading the league in
Speaker 2: blocks your top ten, and turnovers top ten, and steals
Speaker 2: top five in three point percentage, which I think is
Speaker 2: pretty impressive. Tobias looks rejuvenated. He looks like a whole
Speaker 2: new dude. His confidence looks like it was when he
Speaker 2: played for the Clippers. Like to you, what is the
Speaker 2: biggest difference? And I love Kelly, you brow in this team,
Speaker 2: like culturally he's I thought maybe it would be a chucklehead,
Speaker 2: but he's been awesome now in the starting lot, Like awesome,
Speaker 2: But it feels like a lot has changed with very
Speaker 2: little player change. In Layman's terms, kind of compare and
Speaker 2: contrast it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 4: And I was a little bit skeptical just heading into
Speaker 4: the season. I was like, man, this they go this
Speaker 4: cap space route and they trade hard, and it's like,
Speaker 4: all right, they're gonna have like a take their medicine
Speaker 4: type of year. I was not feeling too great about that.
Speaker 4: Like I was just like, and look that they made
Speaker 4: signings like they let like George Niango, they let Shake
Speaker 4: Milton go, and these guys are obviously not world beaters,
Speaker 4: but they wont fifty four games last year. Part of
Speaker 4: the reason is when one of like Joel or Tyreese
Speaker 4: or James was hurt, those guys could actually scale up
Speaker 4: and like help you a little bit. But the reason
Speaker 4: they let them go is because they signed multi year
Speaker 4: deals in other places and they wanted to keep this
Speaker 4: cap space dry, so that limits who you're gonna get.
Speaker 4: You know, pep Bev accepts the one year deal.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's cool.
Speaker 4: You get Kelly Ubray late, and I think a lot
Speaker 4: of people were like, oh, man, Like, you know, he's
Speaker 4: clearly kind of a knucklehead all those type of things.
Speaker 4: You know, how could a twenty point score get signed.
Speaker 4: I think it was in like early September he got signed.
Speaker 4: But I was like, look, that's worth the swing. Like,
Speaker 4: I you know, I completely understand the words that Kelly
Speaker 4: Ubra brings, but you know, get him in with Nick
Speaker 4: Nurse and Joel and you know, the guy clearly has
Speaker 4: some talent in terms of scoring. Now his first three
Speaker 4: games is I was like a little bit optimistic I
Speaker 4: was like, Okay, let's see, Les, lets see if you
Speaker 4: can hold that down. And he's been spectacular in his
Speaker 4: first three games, and I think that's kind of the
Speaker 4: first point here is like, yeah, they're probably gonna regress
Speaker 4: a little bit. I'm not sure they're quite this good.
Speaker 4: But the one thing that I've seen from all of
Speaker 4: these guys is that the ball is just like moving.
Speaker 4: Like the ball, the player movement, all those things. It's
Speaker 4: very different from what James Harden and Doc Rivers did
Speaker 4: last year. It was, by the way, the Sixers offense
Speaker 4: last year when James Harden came back in December, We're
Speaker 4: going four months until the end of the season's best
Speaker 4: offense in the week, better than Sacramento, better, better than everybody.
Speaker 4: But look, it was pretty simple.
Speaker 2: It was like, but wasn't it. It wasn't it like
Speaker 2: kind of like Mortal Kombat. Have you ever played Mortal
Speaker 2: Kombat when you have like the leg sweep uppercut, leg
Speaker 2: sweep uppercut and then like, yeah, that's the that's the
Speaker 2: James Harden Joel embiid pick and roll, and it's like,
Speaker 2: we're gonna do this every time, and you're not going
Speaker 2: to stop us, but it's like unwatchable basketball.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it wasn't that much fun to watch for sure.
Speaker 4: And I think the the bigger point and something the
Speaker 4: reason they've installed all this movement and kind of trying
Speaker 4: to be more unpredictable is in the playoffs it doesn't work.
Speaker 4: It doesn't work against topped events. Now, I don't think
Speaker 4: that's just the Sixers problem, Like offense has not really
Speaker 4: worked in the playoffs. They're just slightly more talented than
Speaker 4: the Sixers. Like, I think what they saw from Denver
Speaker 4: is like, Okay, they throw the ball into Yokich, they
Speaker 4: do all this crazy cutting. It's like it's a little
Speaker 4: more sustainable from the regular season to the playoffs. It's
Speaker 4: a little harder to just game plan and hone in on.
Speaker 4: So you're right, you have two things here. You're trying
Speaker 4: to play, You're trying to prepare for the playoffs and
Speaker 4: kind of be a little bit more unpredictable hopefully help
Speaker 4: Joelle get over some of those turnover issues those things.
Speaker 4: And the other thing is, yeah, you're right, it's more
Speaker 4: fun to watch, Like, yeah, they're not running the same
Speaker 4: play every time. Doc Rivers always had this thing where
Speaker 4: it was like I'm going to give you a very
Speaker 4: specific role and you got to stay in it. And
Speaker 4: basically that role was Joel and James are gonna run
Speaker 4: pick and roll, and the other three guys you're gonna
Speaker 4: stand around and you're probably gonna shoot a bunch of threes.
Speaker 4: You're probably in Tyreese Maxi's case, you're probably gonna get
Speaker 4: a bunch of wide open threes. But he's clearly doing
Speaker 4: more this year. Like I think my friend Derek had
Speaker 4: a stat where Tyrese Maxi through three games has twenty
Speaker 4: five points off dribble handoffs so far, and he had
Speaker 4: I think sixty five all of last year. This is
Speaker 4: three games three, three freaking games, so and you're seeing
Speaker 4: it right Like Joelle back in twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen,
Speaker 4: he had a great two man partnership with JJ Reddick.
Speaker 4: That was kind of the play they would run because
Speaker 4: Ben Simmons obviously wasn't doing a lot in the half court,
Speaker 4: so they would throw the ball to Joe out the elbow,
Speaker 4: and they would let Joel and JJ like like dance on.
Speaker 3: The left side of the floor.
Speaker 4: This is a better version like Tyrese Maxey obviously, I
Speaker 4: love JJ. He's awesome on TV. Was a really good
Speaker 4: player for the Sixers.
Speaker 3: Tyres Max.
Speaker 4: He's a better player than him. He could do a
Speaker 4: lot more stuff. He's quicker, he's you know, he has
Speaker 4: the ball in his hands. So I think that is
Speaker 4: kind of the big difference between the two teams. It's
Speaker 4: been an awesome start. I would caution a little bit
Speaker 4: like I'm expecting a little bit of regression here, but
Speaker 4: as far as like an early start in somebody who
Speaker 4: was a little skeptical that Nick Nurse, who had some
Speaker 4: really bad offenses in Toronto could like completely change the
Speaker 4: culture here and establish this cool motion offense. It's been
Speaker 4: a terrific start, Like hand up like he's been been great.
Speaker 2: And you mentioned a guy standing on the corner. I
Speaker 2: think that's what made Tobias Harris absolutely probably the most
Speaker 2: overrated player in the league was his role. He was
Speaker 2: just frozen. It looked like his confidence was just shot
Speaker 2: because he was told do not do anything if you
Speaker 2: get the ball and you're not open. He was almost
Speaker 2: like short circuit. I don't know if I'm supposed to drive.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm supposed to shoot these He
Speaker 2: would almost drive and then realize, oh man, I'm supposed
Speaker 2: to shoot, and then he would shoot these very inefficient
Speaker 2: mid range shots and it just wasn't working. It feels
Speaker 2: like Tobias Harris might be one of the biggest beneficiaries
Speaker 2: for the Nick Nurse offense as well.
Speaker 4: Which is funny because people thought he would be the
Speaker 4: beneficiary under Doc right, like people thought Doc was the
Speaker 4: Clippers coach when he was really good, right, and that
Speaker 4: would be the thing. Yeah, I think especially when Hardin
Speaker 4: got to hear Tobias's role for this team because Max
Speaker 4: he had ascended past him, Like that's just the truth.
Speaker 4: He was going to get more kind of pick and
Speaker 4: roll calls, he was going to get any scraps left
Speaker 4: over from Joel and James that's going to Tyree's. But
Speaker 4: so that meant Tobias, who's making, you know, close to
Speaker 4: forty million dollars, his role was just stand there and
Speaker 4: shoot open threes, and frankly, it's kind of bothered me
Speaker 4: a little bit, like he just wasn't good at that,
Speaker 4: Like he just wouldn't like he'd missed like two or
Speaker 4: three in a row, and then he'd go into a funk.
Speaker 4: It's like those plays like you said, and I was like, well,
Speaker 4: the team actually needs you to just keep firing those
Speaker 4: And look, I agree with you, like Tobias was miscast
Speaker 4: in that role, and it was you know, you look
Speaker 4: at this year, they're running plays for him, they're you know,
Speaker 4: they're they're having Tyree's backscreen for him so we can
Speaker 4: get some of those mid post touches. He's getting some
Speaker 4: easy looks. So Tobias always talks about like he needs
Speaker 4: to play in the flow, and that's kind of how
Speaker 4: it works. It's I think it's a little bit of
Speaker 4: an excuse making like when he doesn't play quite as well,
Speaker 4: but he's clearly in a nice flow to start this year,
Speaker 4: and the way they're using him, just because James isn't here,
Speaker 4: and even before Nick Nurse and all these cool plays,
Speaker 4: you remove just James and all of the usage that
Speaker 4: he brings, Tobias is the big beneficiar there for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right now. I guess it's like
Speaker 2: winning solves all problems. That's what Klay Thompson is telling us, right, Like,
Speaker 2: there's not a chemistry problem. Last year with the Warriors,
Speaker 2: it was just that they didn't win, not the other
Speaker 2: way around. Nick Nurse seems like he was hated in Toronto,
Speaker 2: and I don't, frankly don't get it. How are the guys,
Speaker 2: from what you can understand, feeling about him? And do
Speaker 2: you think it's like one of those Thibodeau things where
Speaker 2: it's got an expiration date or guys play hard the
Speaker 2: first year because it's just a new voice and then
Speaker 2: eventually maybe that starts becoming less and less effective over time.
Speaker 4: Totally, And I am the first person that pushes back
Speaker 4: because people in Philadelphia, I've never I know, this is
Speaker 4: every NBA fan base man, they just hate the coach.
Speaker 4: They just hate It's always the coach's fault. Went on like, no, man,
Speaker 4: it's a player's league. So I found myself over the
Speaker 4: past couple of years, despite the fact that he would
Speaker 4: scream at me and say, you know, say some not
Speaker 4: nice things in press conferences sometimes at me, I was
Speaker 4: defending Doc Rivers a lot, like I didn't think he
Speaker 4: did a terrible job here. I think in the regular
Speaker 4: season in particular, I thought it was okay. And I
Speaker 4: think you know, when people were like, oh, okay, Nick
Speaker 4: Nurses here, I was like, did you watch Toronto the
Speaker 4: last couple of years, like they weren't a great team.
Speaker 4: It's it's been really good to start.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: Do I wonder if there's an expiration date? Yeah, I do.
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 4: And you know, he has the guy's playing really hard.
Speaker 4: One of the things that's also different is their defense.
Speaker 4: They're flying around like they're they're rotating a lot. It's
Speaker 4: it's a far different system than they played under Doc.
Speaker 3: That's cool, but they.
Speaker 4: Play eighty two games and it's like a lot of
Speaker 4: effort to play that system. So if that effort goes
Speaker 4: away and then that completely goes to shit, like it's
Speaker 4: it's really kind of a tough thing there. Yeah, so
Speaker 4: I think it's been really good to start. I think
Speaker 4: they really like the ball movement. I think they're digging
Speaker 4: kind of how Nick has handled the whole heartened situation
Speaker 4: and just kind of put it to the side. Right now,
Speaker 4: everything is great. I'm just a little curious, like what
Speaker 4: happens if you know, they start turning the ball over,
Speaker 4: they start not playing quite as hard on the defensive end.
Speaker 3: How do they handle that?
Speaker 4: But like look overall, like when the Sixers signed Nick Nurse,
Speaker 4: I was for it, Like I'm like, okay, yeah, this
Speaker 4: has gone poorly in Toronto the last couple of years.
Speaker 4: The guy won a championship and the year after that,
Speaker 4: I think it was nineteen twenty. That's one of the
Speaker 4: best single season coaching jobs I've ever seen. Like, they
Speaker 4: were the number two seed in the East, they had
Speaker 4: just lost Kawhi.
Speaker 3: They were awesome. He does a lot.
Speaker 4: Of cool stuff, like it's fun to watch, you know,
Speaker 4: he runs his box and one stuff like that. So far,
Speaker 4: so good for him. But I think, like you said,
Speaker 4: is there an exploration piration date? I at least have
Speaker 4: my eye off for that.
Speaker 2: All right, So before we let you go, let's get
Speaker 2: your Sixers prediction. Where are they ranked or where are
Speaker 2: they at in the standings by the time the regular
Speaker 2: season is over, does anyone on this team win any awards?
Speaker 2: And where do they exit in the playoffs?
Speaker 3: So what happens? Did they make a trade in the
Speaker 3: middle the year? No? No, okay no.
Speaker 4: So I think my answer is pretty similar on that.
Speaker 4: I have seen enough from them where I think they
Speaker 4: are going to be probably the third or the fourth
Speaker 4: seed and they're gonna lose in the second round. That's
Speaker 4: the whole irony of this Harden thing. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 4: they're yeah, their ceiling is probably not quite as high.
Speaker 3: But these guys, their floor is higher than you think.
Speaker 4: If Joelle is like relatively healthy, if he plays fifty games,
Speaker 4: I know, people always wonder about that he plays more
Speaker 4: than fifty games a lot, though he's it's been a
Speaker 4: long time since his last catastrophic injury. Their floor is
Speaker 4: really high. These guys seem to have the regular season
Speaker 4: figured out, so ultimately I kind of think they're gonna
Speaker 4: end up in the same spot again, where you know,
Speaker 4: they run into a Boston or Milwaukee.
Speaker 3: We'll see. I mean, you know.
Speaker 4: One of the things is like early in the year,
Speaker 4: like I kind of just throw these results to the side.
Speaker 3: You know. It's like early last.
Speaker 4: Year people were like, oh, man, the Sixers have no
Speaker 4: chance against Boston. They're like, you know, they got killed
Speaker 4: by them in a couple of games early in the year. Yeah,
Speaker 4: they lost to Boston, but they had a chance. I
Speaker 4: think we're all talking about how they screwed up that
Speaker 4: chance yet again, like they clearly had a chance to
Speaker 4: beat them. They're up five with like three minutes left, and.
Speaker 2: To be fair and not to cut you off, ant
Speaker 2: to be fair I would take Nick Nurse over Joe
Speaker 2: Mizula in the playoffs any.
Speaker 3: Day, totally.
Speaker 4: You have a better coach and all those things, and
Speaker 4: like we'll see, like Milwaukee's like not guarding anybody right now.
Speaker 4: But I would also say, like I expect them to
Speaker 4: be better at some point, Like Gnison Dan feels like
Speaker 4: a pretty solid pairing there.
Speaker 3: But yeah, if you if you made.
Speaker 4: Me pick, i'd say probably like the third of the
Speaker 4: fourth seed, they win that first round series. Again, maybe
Speaker 4: it's a little closer than past years because the talent
Speaker 4: levels a little closer than past years. And then they
Speaker 4: bow out again and you know, we'll see, we'll see
Speaker 4: what they get from all these guys who were wings
Speaker 4: like Batom, like you said, I think could be a
Speaker 4: pretty good piece. And then as far as awards, I'll
Speaker 4: say it like I think Maxi gets most improved, and
Speaker 4: I think, you know, if he continues to score at
Speaker 4: quite this level, that's kind of a ridiculous reward because
Speaker 4: like what is improvement, Like we sometimes guys get that
Speaker 4: award in their second year when really they're just not
Speaker 4: rookies anymore and they get a little more opportunity. But
Speaker 4: he's been fantastic, And I think the thing is I've
Speaker 4: always kind of been not not pessimistic, but at least
Speaker 4: a little more skeptical of Tyrese Maxie's improvement. He's like,
Speaker 4: proved me wrong every year. The guy just keeps literally
Speaker 4: getting better every single year. The way he shoots it
Speaker 4: is absolutely insane, Like the fact that I think he's
Speaker 4: going to take like eight threes per game this year
Speaker 4: and I don't know what the percentage is gonna be
Speaker 4: at the end of the year, but it's probably gonna
Speaker 4: start with the four. And he's like, it's it's really
Speaker 4: wild to see. So like, yeah, he's probably not good
Speaker 4: enough to be a number two option on a championship team,
Speaker 4: but like, I think he's good enough to be a
Speaker 4: number three, which is kind of wild considering he was
Speaker 4: the number twenty one pick in the Drift. So that
Speaker 4: that's kind of how I see the season going.
Speaker 2: Rich Thanks so much for joining us. I am super
Speaker 2: excited to see how this whole thing plays out. I'm
Speaker 2: very excited for MAXI very excited for Tsunami, Poppy and
Speaker 2: Pat Bev. That whole thing could be a reality show
Speaker 2: in its own right, but we'll have to check in
Speaker 2: with you later on this season as we finally figure
Speaker 2: out what this team is, because, like you're you're right,
Speaker 2: like three games in the season, we have no idea.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's gonna be fun.
Speaker 4: And I think as far as like a somebody who's
Speaker 4: a little more dispassionate than most people, I'm just excited.
Speaker 3: Than not have to talk about James Harden anymore.
Speaker 4: I can just I can just watch the basketball team
Speaker 4: three or four times a week and then we could
Speaker 4: just get on.
Speaker 3: With our list.
Speaker 2: I always say that, I said this on Twitter, James
Speaker 2: Harden owning, like having James Harden on your team or
Speaker 2: being a fan of James Harden, Like the best days
Speaker 2: of that are like owning a boat. The day you
Speaker 2: buy the boat and the day you sell the boat.
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely, absolutely, Yeah, And it's like the first two
Speaker 4: games where he looks awesome for you and then after that.
Speaker 2: All right, man, we'll have to catch up with you soon.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much. Okay, thanks Tom, that's all the time
Speaker 2: that we have for this episode of the Heat Check.
Speaker 2: We'll be back Monday. Yes, we will him me Award
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Speaker 4: Maybe?
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