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Speaker 1: Hi, Steve Fishman here, creator of The Burden as well

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Speaker 1: as the number one true crime podcast, My Friend The

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Speaker 1: Serial Killer. For those of you who liked The Burden,

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Speaker 1: I have good news. Season two starts August seventh. It's

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Speaker 1: a series called The Burden Empire on Blood and it's

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Speaker 1: the director's cut of the true crime classic Empire on Blood,

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Speaker 1: which reached number one on the charts when it debuted

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Speaker 1: half a dozen years ago. Then the fat cat funders

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Speaker 1: abandon it. I wrangled it back and now I'm thrilled

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Speaker 1: to share this story of a man who fought the

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Speaker 1: law for two decades, fought against the Bronx's top homicide

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Speaker 1: prosecutor and a detective sometimes known as the Louis Scarcela

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Speaker 1: of the Bronx. It's all coming to you August seventh,

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Previously on The Burden.

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Speaker 3: So the judge said it right there, somebody's planning on

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Speaker 3: corner Scarsella.

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Speaker 4: And he made that decision that I did, which is preposterous.

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Speaker 2: Holy shit.

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Speaker 1: We won.

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Speaker 5: I'm sure in Derek fifty five report in the bottom

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Speaker 5: of this that has Detective Scarseller Lewis Scarseller.

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Speaker 6: I can't run off in the sunset. I get the

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Speaker 6: souls left behind, right, I know nothing? Who was innocent?

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Speaker 5: You can't tell me, isn't you gotta be serious there,

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Speaker 5: there's no games here. This is freedom here.

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Speaker 6: I look forward, whooping yell ass in court.

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Speaker 1: The floodgates had opened. Many of those convicted, with the

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Speaker 1: help of Detective Scarcella, were back in court. They wanted

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Speaker 1: their convictions overturned. In each hearing, Scarcella testified, and in

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Speaker 1: each hearing Derek Hamilton sat quietly in the back of

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Speaker 1: the courtroom until one day in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 6: I was very upset when I came to the courtroom

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Speaker 6: that day and he was sitting in there like he

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Speaker 6: was a star. He was proud of who he was

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Speaker 6: as a detective.

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Speaker 7: He way, hey, Bob and Joe and now like all

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Speaker 7: his friends were here and this was a joke. I

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Speaker 7: went up to a massine, why the fuck did he

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Speaker 7: framed me for this murder? And he said, this is

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Speaker 7: not the place, not now.

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Speaker 6: What is the fucking done? If I ever could have

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Speaker 6: killed the man? That was the day.

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Speaker 1: Scarcella's attorneys hustled Louis out of harm's way, But a

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Speaker 1: blow of a different sort did land on Scarsella. This

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Speaker 1: one came from the judge in the case.

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Speaker 2: That judge's decision contained a scathing attack on Scarcella, his

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Speaker 2: police work, his attitude, his morals. Judge Sean Dia Simpson

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Speaker 2: trashed him personally. He showed no ris expect for the rules.

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Speaker 2: She wrote.

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Speaker 8: Scarcela has been regarded as a legend in the NYPD

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Speaker 8: for his number of homicide arrests, and there is a saying,

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Speaker 8: when it's too good to be true, it usually is.

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Speaker 2: Then came the hearing to free one of Derek's closest

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Speaker 2: friends and one of those supposed victims of Scarcella, an

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Speaker 2: AI team law partner named Nelson Cruz.

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Speaker 5: Derrick. He always told me before he went home, He's

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Speaker 5: telling me, listen, don't worry about it. I'm gonna comfort you.

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Speaker 5: Trust me. He kept telling me that I'm gonna comf

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Speaker 5: for you. When I make it home, I'm gonna come

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Speaker 5: for you.

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Speaker 9: He kept his.

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Speaker 5: Words, and he's here if I need anything, he's there.

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Speaker 5: And she got me while I'm at today. I'm in

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Speaker 5: court today with my case. Hopefully I'm hoping to go

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Speaker 5: home in a week.

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Speaker 1: Nelson may have good reason to be optimistic. Guess who

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Speaker 1: the judge is in his case.

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Speaker 2: That's right, Judge seande As Simpson.

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Speaker 10: I'm a sinner, baby, I'm all the power you need

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Speaker 10: now I'm out of the bottom.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna set you free.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the burden. I'm Steve Fishman.

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Speaker 2: And I'm DA's Devin Ross. In this episode, judgment.

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Speaker 9: Nobody's got any fucking balls.

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Speaker 11: Nobody we knew something was wrong in that damn courtroom.

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Speaker 9: Murder literally pays.

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Speaker 5: I've been fighting for my freedom for the longer. Dinner

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Speaker 5: with a lot of people.

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Speaker 9: She destroyed me on three cases.

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Speaker 12: Never never, never, never count your chickens before they atch.

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Speaker 2: You gotta hold all time.

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Speaker 1: Judge on Dia Simpson's decision had changed everything. She'd concluded

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Speaker 1: that Scarcella's investigative practices were corrupt. This was a huge deal.

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Speaker 1: Now all a convicted person had to do is proof

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Speaker 1: Scarcela had played a meaningful role in the investigation, and

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Speaker 1: then their conviction could be thrown out.

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Speaker 2: The appeals court upheld her decision, and that meant the

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Speaker 2: bar had officially been lowered. The burden to reverse a

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Speaker 2: conviction had now become much easier to clear.

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Speaker 1: I needed to talk to Judge Simpson about her momentous ruling.

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Speaker 1: But judges don't usually talk to reporters. It's not considered

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Speaker 1: proper conduct for an impartial arbiter. I emailed, phoned her office,

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Speaker 1: didn't respond. So I did what any journalists would do.

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Speaker 1: I sent her flowers. The day before the hearing was

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Speaker 1: to start, I showed up at her chambers unannounced, and

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Speaker 1: she appeared in her black robe. She met me in

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Speaker 1: the lobby and she seemed delighted the flower guys. She

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Speaker 1: called me. She promised to sit down with me for

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Speaker 1: an interview that day. We spoke for four minutes. I

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Speaker 1: had a recorder in my pocket. ABR always be recording.

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Speaker 6: You think Scot's Owa did it on purpose? Well, yeah,

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Speaker 6: but you know what he had to do, what he

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Speaker 6: had to do.

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Speaker 13: He did a lot of frickod things, a lot that

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Speaker 13: was just plain.

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Speaker 2: Eva, just plain evil. I don't know. I hear that,

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Speaker 2: and I think, how can a judge, a sitting judge,

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Speaker 2: say this about a detective, a cop, someone who's also

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Speaker 2: on the side of the system. I mean, I have

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Speaker 2: to be honest. I don't think I've ever heard something

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Speaker 2: like this before.

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Speaker 1: And Scarcela is about to appear before her in court

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Speaker 1: at Nelson's hearing. For Nelson, this is great news. I

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Speaker 1: mean she thinks that star detective in his case has

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Speaker 1: done evil for Derek too. Let's face it, this looks

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Speaker 1: like fantastic.

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Speaker 6: Luck Nelson's case. It's personal.

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Speaker 11: He's a young man at the system fucked around, and

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Speaker 11: you remember it happened to you.

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Speaker 3: I heard for that kid every day, every fucking day.

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Speaker 3: Here's a kid who lost it's mother, like I lost one.

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Speaker 3: You gonna give that becks.

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Speaker 14: Can't get it back.

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Speaker 1: Derek's known Nelson crew since their days on the actual

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Speaker 1: innocence team. Remember Nelson was like an intern. He's the

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Speaker 1: one who'd make Derek's coffee through a sock. As Nelson's

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Speaker 1: hearing approaches, I check in with the key players by phone,

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Speaker 1: Like Louis.

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Speaker 12: I think that you're probably don't have the luckiest judge.

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Speaker 9: I would bet, I would bet get the judge overtur

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Speaker 9: into this. She destroyed me on three cases. I am

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Speaker 9: the oppressor of the minority community.

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Speaker 14: This is nothing new.

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Speaker 9: No one has the balls because she's a woman and

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Speaker 9: she's black. No one has the bulls to put this

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Speaker 9: woman in her place.

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Speaker 1: I also talked to Nelson's lawyer, Justin Bonus, on the

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Speaker 1: eve of the hearing. He's psyching himself up, so you're there.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, I'm here.

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Speaker 12: I'm actually strapping right now for them all with bed.

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Speaker 12: Keep the pressure on and stay focused.

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Speaker 15: Honorable Jeg Sipson is residing.

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Speaker 2: It's March twenty six, twenty nineteen. Nelson Cruz is best

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Speaker 2: shot at freedom begins today far.

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Speaker 15: Diping number three six six, nineteen ninety eight. The matter

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Speaker 15: of Nelson scruise.

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Speaker 2: So, Steve, you were there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm sitting about a dozen feet from the

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Speaker 1: judge so I can see them lead Nelson Cruz in.

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Speaker 1: The officer unlocks his shackles, which gives me the chills.

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Speaker 1: Nelson is tall and thin. He wears a knit cap

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Speaker 1: a white shirt. He's been in prison for over two decades,

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Speaker 1: since he was seventeen years old.

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Speaker 16: Justin Bonus on behalf and Nelson threw his good morning office.

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Speaker 1: Justin Bonus is a newbie. Law school had not been

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Speaker 1: easy for him. He'd flunked out after his first year,

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Speaker 1: lived in his car for a while. He hadn't been

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Speaker 1: practicing for very long when he stepped into judge Simpson's courtroom,

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Speaker 1: but Derek believes in him.

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Speaker 11: Justin will stand up in front of a judge and

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Speaker 11: state judge, you're run and be upset and angry and argue.

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Speaker 6: And he's young enough to be bothered.

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Speaker 1: And maybe it's okay that Justin is a novice. Derek

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Speaker 1: is sitting in the back of the courtroom, handing out

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Speaker 1: black caps that say victims of Detective Scarcella and texting

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Speaker 1: Justin instructions.

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Speaker 5: Derek is literally Google Legal.

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Speaker 12: That's what my nickname is. So let me talk to

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Speaker 12: Google Legal real fast.

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Speaker 1: You know, the hearing is packed with reporters. We've taken

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Speaker 1: over the jury box. Judge Sandia Simpson shows up late,

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Speaker 1: oddly late. During breaks, she jots with me, calls me

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Speaker 1: the flower guy, even gives me her cell number.

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Speaker 2: Wait a minute, she actually gave you her phone number.

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Speaker 17: Wrote it down on a scrap of paper and pushed

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Speaker 17: it across the desk to the flower guy.

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Speaker 1: Bonus went first.

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Speaker 18: Oh, Louis Barcella's involved in this investigation, because this is

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Speaker 18: like Louis Barsola.

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Speaker 16: Isn't just He's not just here and and mom and

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Speaker 16: this this is his case.

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Speaker 1: Over the phone, I described the scene to Louis.

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Speaker 12: First thing he does is he gets up and it's

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Speaker 12: like he delivers an opening state. Basically, he says his

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Speaker 12: argument is it's a scar seller case. Oh god, this

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Speaker 12: will not make you happy. But Judge Simpson journs the

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Speaker 12: hearing for the morning, and before everybody leaves the courtroom,

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Speaker 12: she picks out Derek Hamilton, walks up and gives him

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Speaker 12: a big hug.

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Speaker 9: I don't believe it. I don't believe it, Derek. Oh

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Speaker 9: my god.

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Speaker 1: I caught Simpson talking to Derek on my handy recorder.

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Speaker 11: He said, I believe in you. Then I believe in you.

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Speaker 1: Know I asked Derek about this moment.

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Speaker 12: She believed in the changes that operate.

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Speaker 5: I mean she believes him in this fight.

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Speaker 12: Back to Louis, do you have any other good news?

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Speaker 9: I mean, it's it's over. It's over. Before it started.

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Speaker 1: I also called bonus.

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Speaker 12: If I'm justin bonus, something wants a good thing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, never never, never, never count your chicken.

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Speaker 1: Before that, Nelson's wife was feeling so optimistic she brought

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Speaker 1: him a change of clothes like she was expecting him

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Speaker 1: to be freed straight from the court room.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so what is the evidence in this case, just

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Speaker 2: lay it all out for us.

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Speaker 1: The crux is probably this. There was actually a cop

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Speaker 1: at the scene of the crime and he arrested the

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Speaker 1: man holding the murder weapon.

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Speaker 5: Do you swear or from the testimony you are about

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Speaker 5: to give this court will be the truth, the whole truth,

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Speaker 5: and nothing but the truth.

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Speaker 1: I do, thank you very much, you seated. This is

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Speaker 1: the cop at the scene. He doesn't remember anything from

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Speaker 1: the night of the murder, after all, it was about

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Speaker 1: twenty years ago. So the prosecutor hands him the report

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Speaker 1: he wrote that night. He reads from it.

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Speaker 15: I was inside the car when I heard the gunshots

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Speaker 15: coming from the left of our patrol car. I exited

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Speaker 15: the car and I saw a number of muzzle blasts

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Speaker 15: coming in front of me.

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Speaker 2: People started running in every direction.

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Speaker 15: My attention was drawn to a male Hispanic pointing a

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Speaker 15: black gun towards Bradford Avenue. I yelled at him a

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Speaker 15: number of times to put the gun down.

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Speaker 1: The officer arrested a male Hispanic, but that male Hispanic

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Speaker 1: was not Nelson Cruz. It was a man named Eduardo Rodriguez.

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Speaker 17: So just this time the people call Eduardo Rodriguez.

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Speaker 1: Eduardo Rodriguez comes in wearing what looks like a maitred

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Speaker 1: D's outfit. The prosecutor asks him his first question, a

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Speaker 1: really simple one.

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Speaker 16: Back in March of nineteen ninety eight.

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Speaker 1: How tall was Nelson Cruz? He was? He was really

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Speaker 1: ta kid, he mumbles. Even the court reporter can't understand him.

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Speaker 2: He was, I was.

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Speaker 16: And how tall are you?

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Speaker 19: Six six five?

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Speaker 17: I'm sorry, you're you are six ' five. I'm sitting

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Speaker 17: really close to Eduardo Rodriguez.

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Speaker 1: Is he hallucinating? He's not nearly six foot five. Even

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Speaker 1: the prosecutor is surprised.

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Speaker 2: You're six feet five inches tall, he said.

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Speaker 1: From the bench. Judge Simpson instructs Eduardo to stand back

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Speaker 1: to back with the prosecutor.

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Speaker 15: Fair to say that.

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Speaker 20: The witness is about Friday Fidy.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I drink from.

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Speaker 1: Repeat that, Eduardo says, I kind of shrunk as I

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Speaker 1: got older, apparently afoot.

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Speaker 2: So you're in this jury box with all these other reporters.

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Speaker 2: What is going on in your head?

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking, I'm not gonna believe anything this guy says.

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Speaker 1: And this guy is a crucial witness for the prosecution.

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Speaker 1: The night of the murder, he was initially arrested and

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Speaker 1: taken to the precinct. After all, he was found with

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Speaker 1: the murder weapon in his hand, but somehow he walked

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Speaker 1: out a witness. Then Scarcella and another detective drive Rodriguez

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Speaker 1: to the apartment where Nelson lived with his mother. Scarcella

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Speaker 1: obtained a photo back in the car, he showed the

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Speaker 1: photo to Rodriguez. Scarcella says Rodriguez picked out Nelson as

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Speaker 1: the person who fired the gun.

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Speaker 2: Bonus would seem to have a lot to work with.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he's got a witness who doesn't know his height,

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Speaker 2: and the same witness who had the murder weapon in

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Speaker 2: his hand the night of the murder.

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Speaker 1: But in his cross examination, Bonus struggles.

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Speaker 18: Why do you think, and this is just if you know,

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Speaker 18: why do you think an officer would believe that you

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Speaker 18: had a weapon in your hands?

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is basic, basic criminal law. You can

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Speaker 2: only ask a witness about things they know.

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Speaker 21: Well, Judge, Judge, he's asking to speculate as to someone

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Speaker 21: else's state of mind.

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Speaker 16: You can't do.

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Speaker 2: I take it, Bonus couldn't reach Google legal.

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Speaker 1: Let's rephrase it.

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Speaker 17: I know where you're getting at.

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Speaker 14: Just take it. Tom tick about.

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Speaker 1: Judge Simpson would like to help Bonus rephrase, but she's

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Speaker 1: forgotten the question.

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Speaker 22: We had just the court report to read that because

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Speaker 22: I lost some words.

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Speaker 23: You did that last part sing it.

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Speaker 2: This is not normal. What are you thinking? Just talk

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Speaker 2: to me about what's going through your mind.

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Speaker 1: Hey, I can sum it up. I'm thinking, what the

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Speaker 1: hell is going on in the halls of justice? This

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Speaker 1: whole thing is painful to listen to. Had to check

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Speaker 1: in with Bonus.

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Speaker 23: I'm a young guy, you know what I mean. I

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00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:05,960
Speaker 23: gotta work out some of my kinks.

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Speaker 1: I asked him about Eduardo Rodriguez.

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Speaker 12: I'm not gonna think about it anymore. I mean, this

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Speaker 12: guy is just you know, she's a lion, suck as shit.

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Speaker 1: But in any case, Rodriguez's testimony shouldn't matter all that

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Speaker 1: much to the fate of Nelson Cruz.

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Speaker 2: Right, because the burden of proof is simple. Simpson laid

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Speaker 2: it out in her prior decision show that Scarcilla had

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Speaker 2: a consequential role in Nelson's case, and all should be good.

301
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Speaker 2: Nelson's conviction should be overturned, and.

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Speaker 16: So defense call detective Scarcelo.

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Speaker 2: That's in a minute.

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00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,840
Speaker 17: Scarcella arrives in the corporate in the jury box, photographers,

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Speaker 17: leaning cameras go wild.

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Speaker 1: Scarcella is sixty nine now, his hair is thinning. He's

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Speaker 1: wearing a suit. To my eye, he looks a big

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Speaker 1: rum book, but he's smiling. He's confident.

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Speaker 2: We have the tape, and finally we get to hear

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Speaker 2: Louis Scarcella under oath on the stand.

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Speaker 17: I do yeah, and listen. I'm hoping for fireworks. This

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00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:35,439
Speaker 17: is a showdown.

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Speaker 18: Good morning, Detective Scarcella. Is it all right if I

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Speaker 18: call you Detective Scarcella?

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Speaker 16: Sure, it's comfortable. I've seen that term enough.

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Speaker 1: Justin's referring to his notes. There are long pauses between questions.

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Speaker 1: Scarcella on the stand appears calm. He's really relaxed. He's

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00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:05,960
Speaker 1: also flanked by his two lawyers. Bonus eases into the examination.

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Speaker 1: This might be a showdown, but Justin Bonus is playing nice.

320
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:13,840
Speaker 1: He knows Louis served in the Navy.

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00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:20,879
Speaker 18: Yeah, my father was in the Marines, Douglas, God bless

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Speaker 18: you too for your.

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Speaker 2: Safe So they've God blessed each other. Okay, great, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful,

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Speaker 2: on with it already.

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Speaker 1: So Bonus does shift gears. He asks Scarcela about his

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Speaker 1: hundreds of arrests.

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Speaker 16: How many of those arrests resulted in convictions? You know,

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Speaker 16: I have no idea, no idea.

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Speaker 1: I think all of them.

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Speaker 16: All of the night, I didn't possibly well, I don't remember.

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Speaker 15: I don't remember.

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Speaker 16: Do you stand by all the investigations you've conducted.

333
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,440
Speaker 1: Louis had gone into the hearing thinking it was over

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00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,200
Speaker 1: before it began. Now he's feeling like Bonus gave him

335
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,280
Speaker 1: the chance to say just what he wanted. I did

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Speaker 1: nothing wrong.

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Speaker 4: I was disappointed. I wanted to say for another two hours,

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Speaker 4: I think I would have given him enough more wealth

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Speaker 4: to hang himself. And I gave him the thumbs up time.

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Speaker 1: When I walked out and Dax, there was something else surprising.

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Speaker 1: This judge, the same judge who told me that Scarcella

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00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:38,040
Speaker 1: was basically an evildoer, seemed kind of nice to him.

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00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:43,960
Speaker 1: She waved past objections. He won't ask, She was solicitous,

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Speaker 1: she was patient.

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Speaker 19: I guess he's thinking.

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00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 1: Bonus asked about doctor Phil. The judge was like a fangirl?

347
00:21:54,840 --> 00:22:02,440
Speaker 1: Did you sorry? Did they shared a lad.

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Speaker 6: You do?

349
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Speaker 12: What did you like of the judge?

350
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Speaker 14: She was so nice to you. I think she has

351
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 14: a crush on me.

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Speaker 4: I think even she's saying this, there's a lot of bullshit.

353
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Speaker 14: It was a zero for the defense.

354
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Speaker 9: I should have fucking.

355
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Speaker 23: Hugged us, son of a bitch, A son of a pitch.

356
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 14: I should have fucking.

357
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:33,919
Speaker 1: Hugged us like Derek hugged her. But guess what, Derek

358
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 1: doesn't think any of that matters. He likes what he

359
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,160
Speaker 1: heard in the courtroom. From my point of view, we've

360
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 1: met that burden of proof.

361
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Speaker 5: Were right.

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Speaker 1: I kind of agree. I think Louis is misunderstanding the

363
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:53,439
Speaker 1: legal dynamics. Yeah, Bonus's command of procedure is inexpert, but

364
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Speaker 1: justin elicited certain important admissions.

365
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 16: So you were the detective organized the surrender of mister

366
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 16: Kruz if you want, if you want to say that

367
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,879
Speaker 16: should why would you? Why did you take the photo?

368
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 16: Did you show what Edward Rodriguez I did?

369
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Speaker 17: I certainly did so.

370
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 16: Is it fair to say you did something right?

371
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Speaker 9: Yes?

372
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 1: Derek believes that something is enough. Scarcella had a lot

373
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Speaker 1: of chances to do is evil, and in Derek's mind,

374
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:37,120
Speaker 1: that should meet the burden to overturn the conviction. It's

375
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 1: Derek who drafts the briefs or Bonus and He's already

376
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 1: thinking about what he wants to write.

377
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Speaker 11: I'll planned to the judge and plain English, what the

378
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 11: issues is that? What the bird approval? Oh, I'm sure

379
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 11: that that would be, you know, case closed, The closes.

380
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 2: That both sides rest. Everyone waits for the decision. Five

381
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 2: months past, and then finally the day comes.

382
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 1: We had a mic near the judge and overheard bits

383
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: of her conversation. A clerk tells her the press is

384
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: coming with cameras. She applies. Judge Simpson's court attorney reviews

385
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 1: the decision with her, the one she's about to deliver.

386
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 16: A tough one.

387
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: This is tough one, she says, The case is a

388
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 1: tough one. Then, weirdly, right before the court is called

389
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: to order, she asks her court attorney a question.

390
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 2: Would you grant the motion? So Judge Simpson, with cameras

391
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,360
Speaker 2: worrying and people's lives hanging in the balance, wants to

392
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 2: note if her court attorney would grant the motion to

393
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 2: free Nelson. What something is terribly off right now?

394
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: The court attorney demurves.

395
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 2: I thought, what, I don't know on what basis? And

396
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 2: this seems like this is news to the judge and

397
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 2: she's about to read this decision out loud.

398
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 20: Anything you want to say beforehand, excuse me, Rol, anything

399
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 20: you want to say beforehand.

400
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 16: No, I think we're all right.

401
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 20: The defendant was granted the hearing giving the relations of

402
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:39,679
Speaker 20: compromise police practices. It was a difficult case. Substantial testimony

403
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 20: was taken in this hearing. Eighteen witnesses were called. Significant

404
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 20: issues were raised in the course of the testimony taken.

405
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 20: Although the involvement of detectives Garstella was a great concern

406
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 20: as to the reliability of the investigation. In this case,

407
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 20: the defense failed to effectively undermine the evidence upon which

408
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 20: the defendant was committed. The defendant's motion to vacate, he's

409
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 20: denied and accomplish. That's Nelson's wife, sobbing, shock and sadness

410
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 20: rocked a Brooklyn courtroom.

411
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: A family left heartbroken. Justin jumps up from his seat.

412
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 1: He's outraged. He's about the same age as Nelson Cruz.

413
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 1: He thinks of Nelson, who turned seventeen on the day

414
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 1: of the murder.

415
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 18: These little kids, we're gonna believe that on the day

416
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 18: of his birthday. He chise, somebody, let's think about that

417
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 18: for a Second's.

418
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 1: Sixteen Judge Simpson listens and then and this is bizarre,

419
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: gets up, turns and walks.

420
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 9: Out through.

421
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 2: Normally a judge calls a recessor will adjourn the hearing

422
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 2: before leaving. But that's not what happens right in this

423
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 2: instant Steve. She gets up from the bench, turns on

424
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 2: her heels, and exits exactly.

425
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: And the reporters we have no idea what's going on.

426
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 20: In all of my years as a reporter, I've never

427
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 20: seen anything quite like this. The judge stood up in

428
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 20: silence and walked out of the court room.

429
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: Finally, a clerk announces that court is adjourned until the afternoon.

430
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: When court resumes, there's another strange turn. Judge Simpson calls

431
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,919
Speaker 1: Justin Bonus to the bench. She wants to have a word,

432
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 1: she whispers. And Mike was there so they.

433
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 13: Might the little turn of things. And I know you

434
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 13: put your heart on something of your case. I know

435
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 13: I know your passion, I know you're dry. It's a

436
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 13: tough one. There may be some more work to be done.

437
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 13: They were doing some research ourselves.

438
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 6: I'm going to clean some stuff up and.

439
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 13: Reread off the records. I'm gonna vacation your so I

440
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 13: got it refreshed, recollectious.

441
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 2: Okay, hold up, Hold up. She confesses that she is

442
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 2: not sure she got it right, that she hasn't read

443
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 2: the record. Could be a little turn. She's saying that

444
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 2: she might change her ruling.

445
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 1: I broke news of the decision to Luis Scarcela by phone.

446
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 14: But did she She did not vacate.

447
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 9: Correct, she did not vake cake.

448
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 14: He is in shackle all right, Steeve. I don't you know, Steve,

449
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 14: I gotta tell you something. This is very fucking hard

450
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 14: for me. I'm over here in Maryland on the beach

451
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 14: with my whole family, and to day she just likes

452
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 14: to do this, and you know, it's just fucking look,

453
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 14: you know what fucking shecause. I mean, I'm happy. I'm happy, Steve.

454
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 14: I'm very happy. And uh, I'm very happy for the

455
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 14: first time, and I a Steve listened to me, Steeve, Steve,

456
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 14: I didn't do any of these things that they said

457
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 14: I did. Every one of these cases should have been

458
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 14: like that.

459
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 2: We caught up with Derek.

460
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: So you must have been shattered when Judge Simpson.

461
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 6: Devastated. I remember being him, Steve. I remember sitting to.

462
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: See Yeah, I'd sat through that hearing for days and

463
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: I still didn't understand. I had so many questions. Judge

464
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: Simpson had given me her cell phone number. I called

465
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: it and guess what she invited me for that interview,

466
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: the one she promised me when I sent the flowers.

467
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 23: I respect you wholeheartedly, always had and the first time

468
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 23: I met you.

469
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 22: That's in a minute.

470
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 21: I am nervous.

471
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: I get into my car with our producer Saxon. It's

472
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: several months after the decision, so let's review the chronology.

473
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 17: So yesterday we go out from Brooklyn to where she

474
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 17: lives in South Orange. We run in a little late,

475
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 17: so I text her and say we're running about fifteen

476
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 17: minutes late.

477
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 1: We have a noon meeting with her, and she texts backs.

478
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 17: Saying, Oh, I just have to run into the city

479
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 17: running to DMV.

480
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: I'll be back soon.

481
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 2: You and I both know that no one runs into

482
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 2: the DMV, especially from South Oreg, New Jersey, and is

483
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 2: back soon. That's at least a two hour round trip.

484
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: You are right, I mean it's baffling. So wait, do

485
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: we dig around?

486
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 6: Do we cancel?

487
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: I really wanted to push your head. So Saxon and

488
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: I set up at a local cafe.

489
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 2: So two o'clock comes around, we're drinking coffee.

490
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 17: You get a text message, I am on my way back.

491
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 17: Now we're driving back to her house and we're like

492
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 17: five minutes away and the phone rings. It's a woman

493
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 17: named Anna who says she is Sean DIA's assistant. One

494
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 17: of Seanda's kids has gotten very sick and Shendya has

495
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 17: to reschedule.

496
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 2: So now it's back to New York.

497
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 9: Okay.

498
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 21: So an hour later, we're just crossed through the Holland

499
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 21: Tunnel and there's a Raleigh, North Carolina number on the phone.

500
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 12: Okay, I'm at a red light.

501
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 24: Hello, Okay, this is Steve Fischman.

502
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 9: Correct, Yes it is.

503
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 24: Yes, I'm reaching out on behalf of my client, Shandy

504
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 24: a symptom. I'm just going to as you know that

505
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 24: you need to cease communication with her directly. Any further

506
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 24: communication needs to come through week.

507
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 9: Oh okay, could you tell me why.

508
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 12: I mean we were just invited to her place today.

509
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 24: I will be contacting you via text matches or we

510
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 24: conduction any further communications.

511
00:32:58,560 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 10: Thank you so much.

512
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 24: Do you have a great day.

513
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 6: A half hour later, we're in Brooklyn. Are you about

514
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 6: to drop me off?

515
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 2: And who calls Judge Sean Dia Simpson.

516
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 12: Sorry, I'm just driving. I just pulled over.

517
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 23: Oh that's okay. No, I had to. I had to

518
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,959
Speaker 23: get my driver's license renews. So I had to go

519
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 23: downtown and get that done, which was great because it's

520
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 23: like I got to check that off the list.

521
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 12: Yeah, yeah, that's really good. I actually I felt bad

522
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 12: because we could have just met here in uh New York. Oh,

523
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 12: that's true.

524
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 5: I know.

525
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 12: I thought about it AFTERCA. I was really eager to

526
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 12: talk because I feel like you're really pivotal in that,

527
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 12: you know, whole narrative of the change of the justice system.

528
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 23: Oh that makes me feel so well. One, I respect

529
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 23: you wholeheartedly, always had from the first time I met you.

530
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 23: The best thing I remember about you is bringing me flowers.

531
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 12: Well, I'll bring you to remind you.

532
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 23: Yeah, let's get together. We got to make this happen

533
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 23: because you know I'm here for you.

534
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: We set a date.

535
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 12: Okay, so we'll see you tomorrow.

536
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 19: It's one.

537
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 1: Thanks.

538
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 9: That sounds gay.

539
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:11,320
Speaker 2: Okay.

540
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 20: Bye.

541
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 25: So where we are now on the New Jersey Turnpike

542
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 25: repeating le groundhog Day what we did yesterday.

543
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 17: And still wondering if at the end of our drive

544
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 17: she's gonna be there.

545
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh my god, I'm nervous now.

546
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 1: Thankfully, Judge Simpson is at her house. She's been on

547
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,879
Speaker 1: Leaf for a few months. Actually, the Leaf started right

548
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: after Nelson's decision. She told me it was the first

549
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: break in her professional life. She's wearing jeans, a gray sweater, uggs.

550
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 1: A couple of dogs are running around. She's a gracious host.

551
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 10: So we have like different rooms, like like this is

552
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 10: a great room here, this is like my piece and

553
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 10: tranquility room.

554
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 13: We got the Gold room and the Green room.

555
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: And then then we sit down. We're bunched together at

556
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: one end of a large dining room table.

557
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 10: That one, it was back to back to back to

558
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 10: back people.

559
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 16: Yeah, Nelson cruise.

560
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 2: That case Nelson cruise.

561
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 10: That was another hard one.

562
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 17: Yeah, what was your what was your thought on that?

563
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,320
Speaker 17: I had the feeling that you made up your mind,

564
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:34,280
Speaker 17: but you weren't sure.

565
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 10: And it's a case that bothered me. It was a

566
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 10: case that bothered me because you remember too, because there

567
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 10: was okay, there was Nelson cruise.

568
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 17: I remember it was what was that, Jude Simpson gathered

569
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 17: your thoughts the phone rings.

570
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 2: It was you know, it was tough. It was tough.

571
00:35:51,440 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: We hold on, well, we hold on for less than

572
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: a minute fifty seconds to be exact. She sits down

573
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 1: with us again.

574
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 17: You had just come back from vacation on that one,

575
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 17: and that funds like what a way to come back

576
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 17: from vacation, because.

577
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 6: You know, yeah had in one place.

578
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 17: Yeah, you were you were reading the decision and obviously

579
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 17: a very tough case.

580
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, which one?

581
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:28,800
Speaker 16: Which one was Thelon Cruise case?

582
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 19: Yeah?

583
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 10: And I just that case that will always kind of

584
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 10: bother me. It was just a lot happening in that case.

585
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 10: And it's something like I kept reading stuff over and over.

586
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 10: I probably have stuff more in my office. I should

587
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 10: probably read all this stuff. That Nelson Cruiz case kind

588
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 10: of did bother me.

589
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 17: How about Scarcella's involved, Yeah, I just made a place

590
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 17: like what.

591
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 10: I think that put it this way. I don't think

592
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 10: he's a bad man, and I think he tried to

593
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 10: do the right thing, and I'm gonna give him credit

594
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,399
Speaker 10: for that. I mean, you know, you got to accept

595
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 10: people for who they are, and I think that sometimes

596
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 10: you see people in their mask and it's just like,

597
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 10: oh he's a bad guy. He's a bad guy. But Scarcela,

598
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 10: you know what, he had a nice history there and

599
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 10: he tried to do the best that he could.

600
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 22: Put it.

601
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 2: That way, Steve, this is the same woman who told

602
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 2: you just a few months earlier that Detective Scarcella had

603
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 2: done evil things.

604
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: It's confusing. Did she really change her mind? Chanced to

605
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 1: like read and through that decision?

606
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 21: The Nelson Cruise decision before you? You had to read

607
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 21: it before everybody.

608
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 10: No, I read it a couple of I read it.

609
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,320
Speaker 10: In fact, I still have it.

610
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 16: Someone there's not here with me. It's probably no office.

611
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 10: Then Nelson Cruz, that was a hard one.

612
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 1: Well thought he was guilty.

613
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 16: You thought he was innocent? Nelson?

614
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought he.

615
00:37:58,520 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 10: Was probably more innocent than guilty.

616
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 11: I thought so.

617
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: And around this point I turned to Saxon and scribble

618
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 1: a question, is she high?

619
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 9: You know?

620
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 1: Nelson Cruise was seventeen?

621
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 5: That bothered me.

622
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 1: Too, Saxon wrote back, early dementia. How about a DMV yesterday?

623
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 16: Uh, what happened to DMV yesterday?

624
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 4: They're doing their dB yesterday.

625
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 10: I was supposed to do something in dB something happened.

626
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 5: What happened at DMV?

627
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 23: I was supposed to do something at DMV.

628
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 2: We'll come back. We're gonna let you go.

629
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

630
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 19: It's so great to see you.

631
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 2: Appreciate you, mak your time for all.

632
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 16: I appreciate it.

633
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.

634
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 25: We will take care of that, all right, Thank you.

635
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 6: I'm rolling still.

636
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 2: That was rough.

637
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,760
Speaker 17: There's no way she could have really conducted that trial,

638
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 17: like giving her currency capacity. She just disappeared from the.

639
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 6: Bench turn half hour break, two and a half hour break.

640
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: But she didn't say it was a break. She just disappeared.

641
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 1: That kind of makes a little more sense.

642
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 6: Now, Yeah, it all makes sense.

643
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:36,879
Speaker 19: Now.

644
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 1: That's about the time I called you, Dex. I needed

645
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: your take on this. Journals aren't supposed to take sides.

646
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 1: We're not supposed to or.

647
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 2: A field or one side or the other.

648
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 6: What's going on? We're a neutral ring.

649
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm thinking, frankly, I'm.

650
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 16: Thinking about my duty to Nelson Cruz.

651
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about my duty beyond my journalistic duty.

652
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 2: This has consequences. This is untenable.

653
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: How did people let this go on?

654
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 25: Am I going to be one of those people who

655
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 25: let this go on?

656
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 2: We can't just not.

657
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: Do anything, Dax. I think we've got to reach out

658
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: to Derek.

659
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 2: I mean, he has to know.

660
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 9: We knew something was wrong in that damn courtroom.

661
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 12: We just couldn't get our hands on it.

662
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 17: Derek wanted to get Justin Bonus on the line, Justin,

663
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 17: can you hear me?

664
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 14: Yeah?

665
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 12: I wish I could say I was surprised.

666
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 14: But at the same time, I'm blown away.

667
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:54,359
Speaker 9: I mean, how bad was it, Steve? I mean Derek

668
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:54,839
Speaker 9: said it.

669
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 6: Was bad, but how bad? Oh?

670
00:40:58,960 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 19: It was?

671
00:40:59,719 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 14: It was?

672
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 12: It was so striking that I felt.

673
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 9: Guilty being there. I didn't really know who.

674
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 12: I was talking to at that point. I don't even

675
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 12: really know what to say.

676
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 9: Totally.

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00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 12: It's outrageous, Okay, it is. It's really disturbing.

678
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 2: Everyone around her had to have known, I mean, had minimum,

679
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 2: her assistant, the court attorney, all those clerks, I mean

680
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,320
Speaker 2: they're around her every single day.

681
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: And her bosses. The knowledge had to be widespread. She'd

682
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: previously been quote unquote disciplined for tardiness and lack of

683
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: productivity in fractions, for which she was shipped to the Bronx,

684
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 1: where they assigned her less consequential matters. Shout out to

685
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: the Bronx, where Brooklyn's problems apparently go to hide.

686
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 2: Soon after your meeting, Judge Simpson resigned. The official reason

687
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 2: in the press release. Early onset Alzheimer's Bonus submitted an

688
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 2: argument that Judge Simpson wasn't competent to preside over the

689
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 2: hearing and that Nelson Cruz should get a new one.

690
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 2: Another judge was assigned to review the record, and this

691
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 2: judge scoffed at Bonus's arguments, basically called him incompetent. And

692
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 2: then this judge stood by his colleague stating, quote, the

693
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:29,919
Speaker 2: record clearly demonstrates Justice Simpson was competent to preside over

694
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 2: the hearing as well as render a decision end quote.

695
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,760
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of those officials who called Scarcella a rogue

696
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: and blamed this rogue for so many misdeats. Really, the

697
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: whole system ran over Nelson. No one spoke up, and

698
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: it was clear to me at least she was not

699
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: capable of making a decision on Nelson's future. Another judge

700
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 1: had the chance to overturn Judge Simpson's ruling, but he upheld.

701
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 11: It beside man because they know who committed that crime,

702
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 11: they didn't care, and that kid is still in prison.

703
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 11: I try to stay so busy that I don't think about.

704
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:37,720
Speaker 2: It next time. On The Burden, Derek Hamilton's case solved.

705
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: I mean, the story just doesn't work.

706
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 2: Could not have happened.

707
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: The way she says it does.

708
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 14: So if you couldn't be doing all the things that

709
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 14: she said happened.

710
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 2: It boggles the mind. It boggles the mind. It boggles

711
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 2: the mind.

712
00:43:56,200 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: All now, I'm mama.

713
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 2: Bon I'm going to steffree.

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00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: The Burden is created by Steve Fishman. That's me.

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00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 17: It's hosted and reported by Steve Fishman and Dax Devlin Ross.

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00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: Story editor is Dan Bobkoff. Our senior producer is Simon Rentner.

717
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:25,479
Speaker 1: Our producer is Sanam Skelly. Associate producer Austin Smith. Fact

718
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:30,320
Speaker 1: checking by Sona Avakian. Our production coordinator is Davon Paradise.

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Speaker 1: Mixing and sound designed by Mumbo Media. Our executive producers

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00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:39,320
Speaker 1: are Fisher, Stevens, Evan Williams and me Steve Fishman. Additional

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00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 1: production help from Josie Holtzman, Isaac Kestenbaum, Naomi Roner, Lucy Souchek,

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00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: Drew Nellis, Micah Hazel, Priscilla Alabi, Saxon Baird, Katie Simon,

723
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: and Katie Spranger. We give special thanks to Ellen Horn,

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00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: Lizzie Jacobs, Nathan Tempe, Tobiah Black, Rachel Morrissey, Lyla Robinson,

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00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 1: Mark Smyr and Jack Stewart Pontier, and deep appreciation to

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00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 1: Marcy Wiseman. Special thanks to our agents Ben Davis and

727
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 1: Marissa Hrowitz. Mona Hook provided our legal advice. She's from

728
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 1: MKSR LP, and a very special thanks to Evan Williams,

729
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 1: one of our executive producers and the person who made

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00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 1: this podcast possible. We are honored to feature the song

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00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,800
Speaker 1: black Lightning from The Bell Rays as our theme music.

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00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: The Burden is a production of Orbit Media in association

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Speaker 1: with Signal Company.

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Speaker 19: Number one.

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00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: Season two of The Burden Empire on Blood will be

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Speaker 1: available everywhere you get your podcasts on August seventh. All

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00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: episodes will be available early and ad free, along with

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00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: the exclusive bonus content on Orbit's newly launched True Crime

739
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: Clubhouse as subscription channel on Apple Podcasts. It's only two

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00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 1: ninety nine a month.