1 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: The folks. 2 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 2: It is Sunday, December twenty first, and the State of 3 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 2: Arizona it just imposed the death penalty on a man 4 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 2: who was convicted in eight killings. Yes, he got the 5 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 2: death penalty, So why is that still not enough in 6 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 2: this case? And with that, welcome to this episode of 7 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 2: Amy and DJ Roabes. I'm saying that right for the 8 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 2: State of Arizona, and we'll explain here. Yes, this man 9 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 2: got the death penalty for he was on trial for 10 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 2: eight killings, got the death penalty for six. It's a 11 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 2: little confusing, but the State of Arizona is saying this 12 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 2: might be serious enough we go back and fight for. 13 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: The other two. 14 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 3: And police say they think he killed a total of 15 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 3: nine people, So there are all sorts of numbers around. 16 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 3: But yes, if he's already gotten the death penalty for 17 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 3: six murders, why go back and try to get the 18 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 3: death penalty for the last two? And that is going 19 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 3: to be time consuming, and there's already been a ton 20 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 3: of time, a ton of money, and a ton of 21 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 3: work put into this case. 22 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 4: This killing spree happened in twenty seventeen. 23 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 2: But they're still considering folks, And when you hear about 24 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 2: this crime. You hear about how he terrorized this community, 25 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 2: you might understand a little bit why the prosecution thinks 26 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 2: it is worth it to go back and make sure 27 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 2: that these other two killings also get the same punishment 28 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:27,559 Speaker 2: as the others. 29 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 3: That does make sense, especially when you consider this Phoenix area. 30 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 3: I did not realize, especially around that time period, there 31 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:39,479 Speaker 3: were a series of serial killers or serial shootings. This 32 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 3: has been an area that has been plagued with killing sprees. 33 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 4: I did not realize. 34 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: It's a weird thing to say, but that is true. 35 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 2: And look, we have sometimes there are serial killers that 36 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 2: go over years time. This was a condensed, short burst 37 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 2: of death in that area that scared the hell out 38 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 2: of everybody because it didn't seem to be much of 39 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 2: a rhyme or reason to what was going on. 40 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 3: Yes, nine people killed in twenty one days, all shot right, 41 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 3: all shot, very very scary stuff, and it was so 42 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 3: it was so confusing to police. They didn't even piece 43 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 3: it together that it could have all happened from one 44 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 3: person because they were so random. Some of the killings 45 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 3: there were personal connections to Cleophus Cooksy Junior, but in 46 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 3: some of the killings there was zero rhyme or reason 47 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 3: to why he would go after or kill these folks. 48 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 3: So it was incredibly confusing to belize to put it 49 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 3: all together. 50 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 4: And it was the evidence that linked these crimes. 51 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 3: But if it weren't for that his maybe missteps or 52 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 3: mistakes and keeping evidence and keeping tokens, they would never 53 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 3: have figured out that one man was responsible for all 54 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 3: these crimes. 55 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 2: And you heard that the one man kind of a 56 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: unique name, Cleophus Cooksie. Is the name Cleophus Cooksie junior, 57 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 2: forty three years old for the young guy certainly at 58 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 2: this point, but these crimes were back in twenty seventeen. 59 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 2: He was found guilty. They came back, and he will 60 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 2: be getting the death penalty now. He was found guilty 61 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 2: of eight counts of murder, found guilty of kidnapping, arm robbery, 62 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 2: attempted sexual assault in these cases again eight counts of murder. 63 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 2: And I guess robes he, I guess it certainly stands 64 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 2: out among the dead his mom and his stepdad he killed, 65 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 2: and she shot and killed his mother and his stepdad. 66 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 3: And ohe the irony because perhaps that is the most degree, 67 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 3: just not that any death is any more or less 68 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 3: important than the other but certainly to be able to 69 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 3: kill your own mother and stepfather who raised you, by 70 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 3: the way, that is disturbing. And those are the two 71 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 3: deaths that the jury was hung over whether or not 72 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 3: to pursue the death penalty with him. 73 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 2: Did you get much of an explanation or reasoning for that? 74 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 2: I mean, what did they struggle with on that one? 75 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: Was it emotional struggling or was there something about those 76 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 2: particular deaths that was different. 77 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 3: I read nothing about how or why because this just happened, 78 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 3: and perhaps the jurors haven't spoken out yet. There was 79 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 3: no real motive in this case that anyone's been able 80 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 3: to figure out. And also a note, Cleophus Cooksey Junior 81 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 3: had just gotten out of prison months before after serving 82 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 3: sixteen years for a manslaughter conviction. So he just gets 83 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 3: released from prison and months later goes on this killing spree. 84 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 3: This man clearly had violence in his heart. One of 85 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 3: his mother's and stepfather's best friends came to Core for 86 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 3: the sentencing this week. He said he went there to 87 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 3: try and see because he said he watched Cliophus be 88 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 3: raised from a child. He said, I've known him since 89 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 3: he was little. I wanted to see if there was 90 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 3: any remorse, if there was any goodness in his heart. 91 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 3: And he came out of the courtroom this week and 92 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 3: said he's a monster and he doesn't have any heart, 93 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 3: and he said he wants him to die for what 94 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 3: he's done. 95 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 2: I'm always curious what goes wrong, something happened. You hear 96 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 2: about these crimes that we're going to go through here quickly, 97 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 2: but are you here about it? And something has to 98 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 2: be off or wrong or like a legit illness, mental illness. 99 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 2: It's tough to understand when you see stuff like this. 100 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 2: To think that just somebody happened to be a bad 101 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 2: dude and decide to co consciously decide to be this 102 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 2: type of evil is confusing. 103 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 3: And evil is the word that people use when they 104 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 3: describe this man, because look, it's there are some murders 105 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 3: that maybe you could justify or get your head around 106 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 3: or understand from an emotional connection, But when you just 107 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 3: have someone have apparently that much race that they will 108 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 3: kill innocent people who are just in their car or 109 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 3: walking to the bus or going about their business, thinking 110 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 3: that nothing could possibly go wrong because you've done nothing 111 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 3: to no one, and yet somehow there's so much reason 112 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 3: that you will kill an innocent person who you have 113 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 3: zero connection to. 114 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 4: That's hard to try to understand, you know. 115 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 2: And to what you're saying that we now he's responsible 116 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 2: for nine deaths, he's been convicted of eight accounts of murder. 117 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 2: We have no idea police, haven't you just mentioned motive? 118 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 2: There's not one. Why did he do this? M No 119 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: explanation has ever been offered by authorities for he did 120 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 2: it because he was upset at this person, that person, 121 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 2: or this triggered him, or that's nothing. 122 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: That is terrifying to think about. 123 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 2: People are out there and just the randomness of violence 124 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 2: in life sometimes. 125 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 3: And I think that is why these types of stories, 126 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 3: serial cares, serial shootings not only are frightening as hell, 127 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 3: but fascinating because it's not normal. It's not how most 128 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 3: people operate, and we can't go around our business in 129 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 3: our lives worried that random strangers are suddenly going to 130 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,359 Speaker 3: turn on us. But that is what makes it so frightening, 131 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 3: because we have seen cases where that exact thing happens. 132 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 2: You know, I'm going to wait here, I was going 133 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 2: to mention we will in just a moment here are 134 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 2: going to mention what the da says he kind of 135 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 2: made a statement about the death penalty in this case 136 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 2: that I'll hold that and we'll discuss that after we 137 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 2: get through the break here. But we go back to 138 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 2: twenty seventeen Robes in November is when it started, and 139 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 2: it started randomly, and do I have right? All of 140 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 2: the victims except his mom and his stepdad were pretty 141 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 2: young folks. But yes, these two young men. Again, no 142 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 2: motive on this one. 143 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 3: Was it two friends sitting in a car, they were 144 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 3: parked at a cash checking or a yes, a check 145 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 3: cashing I said that wrong, a check cashing store, and 146 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 3: they just found both men dead, shot in the head 147 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 3: for whatever reason. 148 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 2: After that, Seline Richards, thirty one years old, shot while 149 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 2: walking to his girlfriend's apartment. Again, this was five days 150 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 2: after the first killings. And again there are no rhyme 151 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 2: or reason to this one either. 152 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 3: Not that I'm aware of, just completely and totally random. 153 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 4: It's so scary. 154 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 2: And then the next two after that, we're both at 155 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 2: apartment complexes in the Glendale, Arizona area. Won a twenty 156 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,679 Speaker 2: nine year old one a twenty one year old Littory 157 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 2: Beckford and Christopher Cameron again both just shot at apartment complexes, 158 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 2: no rhyme or reason, no right. 159 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 3: And then this next one is really really sad and scary. 160 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 3: Maria Vellanueva. She was forty three years old, but they 161 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 3: actually have surveillance video of her and he took her car, 162 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 3: so he grabbed her as she was walking to her car, 163 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 3: made her sit in the front passage, so they can 164 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 3: actually see that on surveillance video. And then her body 165 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 3: was found the next day, half naked in Phoenix. She 166 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 3: was sexually assaulted and his DNA was found on her body. 167 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 2: And again, folks, as we're going through this at the time, 168 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 2: right in Arizona, they weren't putting out pictures and saying 169 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 2: we're looking for this suspect or saying they're going after 170 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 2: This was just a string in a three week period 171 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 2: of people just getting brutally murdered. 172 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 3: Yes, because the one we didn't mention that he was 173 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 3: not charged with. But right in the middle of all 174 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 3: of these killings, there was another met found dead in 175 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 3: his apartment, Jesus Reale. He was found on his chase lounge, 176 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 3: shot in similar fashion to some of these other folks, 177 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 3: but he actually did have a personal connection to Cleophys. 178 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 3: He produced music with him because Cooksie was I guess. 179 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 3: I don't know how much of a musical artist he was, 180 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 3: but that was what he did or what he tried 181 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 3: to do, I guess. So Interestingly, the one where they 182 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 3: actually have a personal connection to the death in the 183 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 3: middle of this killing spree. They never charged him with 184 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 3: that crime, but that one maybe there was some personal beef. 185 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 3: Interesting they chose not to pursue that. 186 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 2: Again, they had eight others lined up already. But this 187 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 2: is it's you put yourself in that position of understanding 188 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 2: just how terrorized this community was around that time. And 189 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 2: then the last killings Renee Cooksy, Edward Nunn, Renee Cooksie 190 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 2: fifty six years old, Edward None fifty four years old, 191 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 2: Renee Cooksy, his mother, his mother, and I saw and 192 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 2: I heard the details and the circumstances around it that 193 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 2: there was a shot fired call to his mom's house 194 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 2: and police actually came and confronted him. He tried to 195 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 2: play it cool, and he ends up getting taken into custody. 196 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 2: But rhyme or reason, Yeah, why he kills his mom 197 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 2: and he stepped in, Yes, And. 198 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 3: If it hadn't been for neighbors calling police reporting, Hey, 199 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 3: we hear gunshots. Police quickly getting to that apartment complex. 200 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 3: They said that they found blood spatter on his doorstep 201 00:09:58,120 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 3: and he was saying. 202 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 4: Oh, no, I just cut myself on my hand. It's 203 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 4: nothing at all. 204 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 3: When they got and pushed in, they say that he actually, 205 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 3: in that moment, threatened to slit the officer's throat, so 206 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 3: they knew they had their guy at that point. 207 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 2: So, and did you figure out why this took so 208 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 2: long to get him to trial? It was just a 209 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 2: complicated case. But this is twenty seventeen and this trial's 210 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 2: just happened eight years later. 211 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 3: That is jaw dropping to me. And I can only 212 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 3: imagine it was just putting and piecing it together. But 213 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,439 Speaker 3: that seems like that is not your right to a 214 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 3: speedy trial. Eight years after you've committed the crime, you're 215 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 3: waiting for your trial, and then that trial is months long. 216 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 3: So his trial began in May of twenty twenty five. 217 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 3: I was wondering why this didn't come on our radar, 218 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 3: and I started remembering Ditty, and I thought, you know what, 219 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 3: I think we were so focused on Sean Combe's trial 220 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 3: at that point. 221 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: Which happened in May exactly the same time. 222 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 3: This is something that we would have absolutely it would 223 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 3: have peaked our interest and we would have been following it. 224 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 3: But I think because we were so focused on the 225 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 3: ditty trial, we didn't even hear about this trial. But yes, 226 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 3: this took Can you imagine being a juror sitting through 227 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 3: all that testimony old months, for all these months, and 228 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 3: just now this week he finally was sentenced, and now 229 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 3: they're talking about potentially retrying him for the deaths of 230 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 3: his mother and stepfather so they can get that death 231 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 3: penalty verdict. But it's unclear why they would need to 232 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 3: and why they would want to after spending so much 233 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 3: time and money on this trial. It doesn't seem it 234 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 3: doesn't seem possible. 235 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 2: This is a tough one to understand out there in Arizona. 236 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 2: But Arizona, as much as we've been talking about robes 237 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 2: this year, how many executions on a pretty historic pace 238 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: as a country, Arizona, however, is not a state that 239 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 2: executes a lot of people, even though they got quite 240 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:42,719 Speaker 2: a few on death row. 241 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: We'll explain when we come back. 242 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 2: Also will tell you what the district attorney is staying 243 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,959 Speaker 2: out there about the death penalty. Also, have we seen 244 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 2: yet the last execution of twenty twenty five. Well, it's 245 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 2: the last one scheduled, it's already happened. But one state 246 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 2: has until Christmas Eve to kill a guy. 247 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: We'll explain. To stay here, all right, we continue here 248 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,079 Speaker 1: on Amy and TJ. Robes. You're gonna have to help 249 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: me out. 250 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 2: I teased so many things, make sure I get to 251 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 2: them to them all. Let's start with what the DA 252 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 2: out there in Arizona is saying about this Cooksy case. Look, 253 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 2: there are people you can debate the death penalty all 254 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 2: day long, and then there are some cases where folks 255 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 2: will look and go, Okay, the death penalty is the 256 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 2: right call here, and the DA is essentially saying. 257 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 3: That, Yes, the DA came out and said death is 258 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 3: the only just punishment in this case when you look 259 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 3: at the facts and you look at the details, he said, 260 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 3: anyone who questions why we need the death penalty needs 261 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 3: to look no further than this case. And look, I 262 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:54,839 Speaker 3: think if you look and see that he was already 263 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 3: in prison for manslaughter and he was released and pretty much, yes, 264 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 3: within months of his release, he goes out and. 265 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 4: Kills nine people. 266 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 3: So when you have certain violent criminals and I don't 267 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,719 Speaker 3: know if there's a way you can predict whether or 268 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,439 Speaker 3: not somebody is going to go immediately back or eventually 269 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 3: back to a life of violence and crime. But at 270 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 3: this case, obviously, in hindsight you can say, yeah, he 271 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 3: was that guy. This guy never needs to be released, 272 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 3: and unfortunately, with overcrowding prisons and the way our system works, 273 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 3: murderers get released. And so I guess his point is 274 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 3: when you put someone on death row, you eliminate that 275 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 3: fear for the most part. 276 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 2: I mean this, But the way he spoke of and 277 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 2: that's always you and I have talked about this plane, 278 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 2: he speaks of it as vengeance versus a deterrence, And 279 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 2: I don't know what the argument is for people still 280 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 2: make the deterrence argument. But then you and I sit 281 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 2: here and say, well, as much as you got a 282 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 2: problem with DeSanto's out there, folks, his argument is essentially 283 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 2: the problem with the death pony is that we don't 284 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 2: follow through. We leave people on death row for twenty 285 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 2: thirty forty years. Why is that a deterrent to crime? 286 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 2: If okay, yeah, if I get caught, I'll live out 287 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,199 Speaker 2: another forty years and get a nice last meal before 288 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 2: they try to kill me. 289 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 3: I mean what, No, Yeah, it's not a deterrent, Yes, 290 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:12,959 Speaker 3: I think, Yes, you're right. 291 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: It was more vengeance the DA's statement. 292 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 2: When we talk about it as as vengeful instead of 293 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 2: some kind of deterrence, she is essentially saying he's a 294 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 2: bad guy. He deserves to die. That's a tough argument 295 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 2: for a government to make, at least when it sits 296 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 2: with me. 297 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 298 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 3: Her exact words were, it takes a special kind of 299 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 3: evil to prey upon the vulnerable and needlessly take the 300 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 3: lives of eight innocent people. Death is the only just punishment, 301 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 3: and we will do everything in our power to see 302 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 3: it carried through. 303 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and plain folks plenty religious folks will say, yeah, 304 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 2: how can you make an argument that this guy deserves 305 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 2: to be cared for for the next forty to fifty 306 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 2: years of his life on the tax bearer dime? 307 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: Yeah? 308 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 3: I know, but as we've seen with some of the 309 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 3: death penalty cases, that's still what happens to people on death. 310 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: Row right now. 311 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 3: They get taken care of for forty years and then 312 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 3: get a really special last meal. I mean, that is true, 313 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 3: but I thought it was interesting when we were talking 314 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 3: about motive in this case, prosecutors never came up with one, 315 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 3: but their big play to the jury and part of 316 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 3: their reasoning behind the death penalty, was that he targeted 317 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 3: his victims when they were vulnerable. 318 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 4: So I thought that was interesting that that mattered. 319 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 3: That he chose the moments when they were in their apartment, 320 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 3: when their guards were down, when they felt that they 321 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 3: were safe and secure, and he took that away from 322 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 3: these people and perhaps the community who was very fearful 323 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 3: during this time. 324 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 2: We've heard there's plenty special circumstances. Yes, it's not just 325 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 2: a murder, it's an especially heinous murder because of some details. 326 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 2: Now is he going to end up, When are they 327 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 2: going to carry this, How are they going to carry 328 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 2: this out? The death penalty? Don't know because you got 329 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 2: one hundred and eight. I think it is inmates sitting 330 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 2: on death row in Arizona and they don't kill them 331 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 2: a lot. No, they did two this year. The previous 332 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 2: two years were zero, three the year before that, and 333 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 2: then there was like an eight ear stretched where there 334 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 2: was zero death row inmates executed in Arizona. So again 335 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 2: there are questions about methods, and they don't get the 336 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 2: proper drugs and those things. But quite frankly, Arizona is 337 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 2: not on a tear to get through death row. 338 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, they're not on a tear for death row. 339 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 3: And we just talked about the eight year lag in 340 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 3: the trial of this man. 341 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 4: Let me just say this, this is so interesting. The 342 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 4: year before, in twenty sixteen, this bus. 343 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 3: Driver who killed and was charged of killing nine people, 344 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 3: so very similar in a period of a year. His 345 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 3: trial date hasn't his trial hasn't even happened yet, is 346 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 3: set for a year from now December of twenty twenty six. 347 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 3: That means it will be ten years after he committed 348 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 3: these or is accused of committing these murders that he 349 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 3: will finally get his day in court. So Arizona doesn't 350 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 3: have a great track record at getting significant murder cases, 351 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 3: serial murder cases to trial, let alone to conviction and 352 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 3: to a actual sentence. 353 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 2: In this is okay, this is just got a little 354 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 2: pissed because when you say that we've talked so much 355 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:05,479 Speaker 2: about how long people end up on death row, are 356 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 2: you really talking to me at the possibility that guy. 357 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 4: In particular, what year with his crime twenty sixteen. 358 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 2: Twenty sixteen, So if it takes you ten years to 359 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 2: get to trial, and then you're possibly on death row 360 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 2: for another thirty to forty Are you really telling me 361 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 2: you're gonna make these families who lost a loved one 362 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen wait and wait for fifty years for 363 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 2: justice to be served. 364 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: We've got to fix that one. 365 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, how about just waiting ten years to get your day? 366 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 1: In course, we gotta fix that one. 367 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 3: That's not fair to the accused, and it's not fair 368 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 3: to the victim's family. 369 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 2: You know, a lot of times the accused, well, like 370 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 2: another motion, another motion, follow another motion. 371 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: They're trying to delay. Might as well push his clock 372 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: down the road. 373 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 3: I know what the end is probably going to be, 374 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 3: So let's just go ahead and delay, delay, delay. 375 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 2: Well, and again, we've been talking here plenty if you've 376 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 2: been following this podcast. Extraordinary year in executions forty help 377 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 2: me forty seven second forty seven. That's the most in 378 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 2: THEE that we've seen since two thousand and nine. We 379 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 2: think the number is going to stay at forty seven 380 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 2: for the year, even though as we're recording it's December 381 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 2: twenty first. But there's another death warrant right now Robes 382 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 2: that is active in the state of Georgia. We just 383 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 2: don't know if they're going to see it through. 384 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:20,120 Speaker 4: It would have to happen. 385 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 3: The execution would have to happen on Monday, on Tuesday, 386 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 3: or on Wednesday, that would be Christmas Eve for those 387 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 3: who don't know, by noon, so that that's when his 388 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 3: death warrant officially terminates and they'll have to then reset 389 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 3: an execution date. And there's all sorts of things that 390 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 3: have to happen for that to occur. So it looks 391 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 3: like he will be spared at least through twenty twenty five. 392 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 1: And this was Stacy Humphrey Humpy. This was the one. 393 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: This is the obese guy. 394 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 3: Yes he it was the obiste guy who had this extraordinary. 395 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: Last me Lover's pizza, a double cheeseburger, that was it. 396 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 3: Two lemon lime sodas your ribs. 397 00:18:59,640 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 1: It was. 398 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 4: It was a platter for a party of. 399 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 2: Twenty uh yeah yeah, so yeah, he ordered a last 400 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 2: meal and then his execution got halted. We don't know 401 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:12,239 Speaker 2: if that we'll come back again that no one got 402 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 2: halted because of some issues with conflict of interest on 403 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 2: the parole board. We won't get into all that, but 404 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 2: it is active. They could set they could kill that 405 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 2: man any time between now and Christmas Eve on it 406 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 2: do you think. 407 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 3: I think that that's a very tall order and seems unlikely, 408 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 3: you know what, But. 409 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 2: You never know, not from a sentimental standpoint, but from 410 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 2: everybody who just they want to be home for the holidays. 411 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: I don't want to mess around with us. 412 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 3: I think that that has a huge role in everyone's motivation. 413 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 2: All right, well, folks, we always appreciate you spending some 414 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 2: time with us. It's been I kind of believe how 415 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 2: many death penalty and execution stories we've done this year. 416 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,959 Speaker 2: But it has been an extraordinary year for this country, 417 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 2: and it's wrapping up in an extraordinary way, to the 418 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 2: point that we're waiting to see what happens up to 419 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 2: Christmas Eve on an execution, folks. That's always we appreciate 420 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 2: you spending some time with that's for my dear Amy Robot. 421 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 1: I am T. J. Holmes that we will talk to 422 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: also 423 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 2: M HM.