1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:23,556 Speaker 1: Pushkin. I want you to take a moment to think 2 00:00:23,676 --> 00:00:27,316 Speaker 1: about a few of your favorite things. Whether it's raindrops 3 00:00:27,316 --> 00:00:30,316 Speaker 1: on roses and whiskers on kittens, or snowflakes that stay 4 00:00:30,316 --> 00:00:33,116 Speaker 1: on our nose and eyelashes. The things around us that 5 00:00:33,156 --> 00:00:36,636 Speaker 1: we love have something in common. We experience and enjoy 6 00:00:36,676 --> 00:00:41,476 Speaker 1: them thanks to our senses sight, hearing, smell, touch, and taste. 7 00:00:41,716 --> 00:00:44,716 Speaker 1: They can, individually and in combination, make our hearts sing. 8 00:00:45,196 --> 00:00:47,716 Speaker 1: They can bring us some needed solace when the proverbial 9 00:00:47,796 --> 00:00:50,996 Speaker 1: dog bites or the beast stings. But our senses are 10 00:00:50,996 --> 00:00:54,116 Speaker 1: more fragile than we often recognize. Even if you're lucky 11 00:00:54,196 --> 00:00:56,836 Speaker 1: enough to be born with all five, it's probable that 12 00:00:56,916 --> 00:01:00,076 Speaker 1: age and illness will degrade them over time. We usually 13 00:01:00,156 --> 00:01:03,116 Speaker 1: ignore this fragility, and that means that all too often 14 00:01:03,196 --> 00:01:05,956 Speaker 1: we take our senses for granted. I mean, you may 15 00:01:05,956 --> 00:01:08,476 Speaker 1: say you love chocolate chip cookies, but do you wolf 16 00:01:08,476 --> 00:01:11,796 Speaker 1: them down in seconds, barely letting the flavor linger? What 17 00:01:11,876 --> 00:01:14,476 Speaker 1: about the music you say you adore is it actually 18 00:01:14,516 --> 00:01:17,636 Speaker 1: just some background hum as you chat, exercise, or clean 19 00:01:17,676 --> 00:01:21,356 Speaker 1: your apartment. Really paying attention to the world around us, 20 00:01:21,676 --> 00:01:24,396 Speaker 1: savoring the sites, sounds, and sensations of the things we 21 00:01:24,516 --> 00:01:27,756 Speaker 1: encounter is a great way to increase our happiness. Being 22 00:01:27,796 --> 00:01:30,196 Speaker 1: mindful of our surroundings can help us live more fully 23 00:01:30,196 --> 00:01:32,356 Speaker 1: in the moment and can help us take a break 24 00:01:32,356 --> 00:01:35,556 Speaker 1: from all the usual rumination about past events or worrying 25 00:01:35,556 --> 00:01:38,556 Speaker 1: about things to come. But our senses offer lots of 26 00:01:38,596 --> 00:01:41,276 Speaker 1: other opportunities to enhance our happiness and well being too, 27 00:01:41,956 --> 00:01:44,716 Speaker 1: opportunities that I wasn't even fully aware of until I 28 00:01:44,756 --> 00:01:46,876 Speaker 1: read an excellent new book from one of the world's 29 00:01:46,916 --> 00:01:52,036 Speaker 1: leading happiness thought leaders, author and podcaster, Gretchen Reuben. Gretchen's 30 00:01:52,036 --> 00:01:54,876 Speaker 1: new book, Life in Five Senses, How Exploring the Senses 31 00:01:54,916 --> 00:01:56,716 Speaker 1: Got Me out of My Head and into the World, 32 00:01:56,876 --> 00:01:59,116 Speaker 1: begins with her story of being just as oblivious to 33 00:01:59,156 --> 00:02:02,196 Speaker 1: her surroundings as the rest of us. That is, until 34 00:02:02,236 --> 00:02:04,636 Speaker 1: a doctor warned her that a sense she'd taken totally 35 00:02:04,636 --> 00:02:07,676 Speaker 1: for granted was in real danger of disappearing, and so 36 00:02:07,796 --> 00:02:10,436 Speaker 1: Gretchen began a new quest. She started to explore her 37 00:02:10,476 --> 00:02:14,036 Speaker 1: world with fresh eyes and fresh ears, nostrils, taste, buds, 38 00:02:14,076 --> 00:02:17,516 Speaker 1: and fingers. After reading the book, I found Gretchen's new 39 00:02:17,516 --> 00:02:20,876 Speaker 1: mission to revel in her senses contagious. After seeing all 40 00:02:20,916 --> 00:02:24,276 Speaker 1: the benefits she discovered. I also wanted to reawaken myself 41 00:02:24,316 --> 00:02:27,436 Speaker 1: to all the colors, noises, textures, and sense that I've 42 00:02:27,436 --> 00:02:29,916 Speaker 1: been missing out on in my busy life. I thought 43 00:02:29,916 --> 00:02:32,556 Speaker 1: you'd be inspired too, Hey, Gretchen. 44 00:02:32,356 --> 00:02:35,076 Speaker 2: Hello, how are you good? Good? 45 00:02:35,396 --> 00:02:37,676 Speaker 1: So I invited Gretchen to come on the Happiness Lab 46 00:02:37,796 --> 00:02:40,596 Speaker 1: for a two part series to discuss her journey into 47 00:02:40,636 --> 00:02:42,916 Speaker 1: her own five senses. Thank you so much for taking 48 00:02:42,996 --> 00:02:43,836 Speaker 1: the time to do this. 49 00:02:43,916 --> 00:02:45,676 Speaker 2: Oh, I'm so excited to talk to you. 50 00:02:46,076 --> 00:02:48,956 Speaker 1: And already I'm seeing in your zoom background the infusion 51 00:02:48,996 --> 00:02:52,676 Speaker 1: of curated color, the flowers, and the chair. Yes, good 52 00:02:52,716 --> 00:02:55,956 Speaker 1: red start. We'll focus on smell, taste, and touch in 53 00:02:55,996 --> 00:02:59,436 Speaker 1: our next episode, but today we'll explore hearing and seeing. 54 00:03:00,036 --> 00:03:02,236 Speaker 1: For Gretchen, it was sight in many ways, the sense 55 00:03:02,276 --> 00:03:04,716 Speaker 1: at the top of our primate hierarchy that launched her 56 00:03:04,756 --> 00:03:08,476 Speaker 1: on request to be more present. Thinking about vision transported 57 00:03:08,476 --> 00:03:11,956 Speaker 1: Gretchen back to childhood and to her first pair of glasses. 58 00:03:12,636 --> 00:03:16,396 Speaker 3: I remembered that so distinctly because it was just the 59 00:03:16,396 --> 00:03:18,796 Speaker 3: most wonderful thing in the world. I was really nervous 60 00:03:18,796 --> 00:03:20,716 Speaker 3: about getting glasses. I was little. I was, like, you know, 61 00:03:20,676 --> 00:03:22,956 Speaker 3: in second or third grade. But then when I put 62 00:03:22,996 --> 00:03:26,636 Speaker 3: them on, I realized what I had not been seeing 63 00:03:26,636 --> 00:03:29,036 Speaker 3: that everybody else could see, you know, everything from the 64 00:03:29,076 --> 00:03:31,796 Speaker 3: words on the board to the leaves on the trees, 65 00:03:31,876 --> 00:03:34,956 Speaker 3: and it was just so exciting. So I've been very 66 00:03:35,076 --> 00:03:37,476 Speaker 3: very near sighted my whole life. And then I had 67 00:03:37,516 --> 00:03:41,756 Speaker 3: this experience much more recently where I had pink eye. 68 00:03:41,796 --> 00:03:42,716 Speaker 2: That's another thing about me. 69 00:03:42,756 --> 00:03:45,316 Speaker 3: I get pink eye a lot and usually goes away, 70 00:03:45,356 --> 00:03:47,156 Speaker 3: but sometimes you have to go to the eye doctor. 71 00:03:47,196 --> 00:03:49,316 Speaker 2: So I went to the eye doctor, and just as 72 00:03:49,356 --> 00:03:49,716 Speaker 2: I was. 73 00:03:49,716 --> 00:03:53,596 Speaker 3: Walking out the door, just very matter of factly, he's like, well, 74 00:03:53,636 --> 00:03:55,756 Speaker 3: you know, be sure to come in for your regular 75 00:03:55,836 --> 00:03:58,876 Speaker 3: checkups because, as you know, you're a greater risk for 76 00:03:58,956 --> 00:04:02,316 Speaker 3: losing your sight. And I thought, what, no, wait, what 77 00:04:02,396 --> 00:04:04,396 Speaker 3: are you talking about. And he said, oh, yeah, well 78 00:04:04,396 --> 00:04:07,116 Speaker 3: you're very severely nearsighted, and that means that you are 79 00:04:07,396 --> 00:04:09,916 Speaker 3: more at risk for having detached ret and that can 80 00:04:09,996 --> 00:04:12,516 Speaker 3: cost you vision. And in fact, I had a friend 81 00:04:12,556 --> 00:04:15,316 Speaker 3: who just had lost some vision because of a detached ratna. 82 00:04:15,516 --> 00:04:17,596 Speaker 3: So this was, you know, felt very real to me. 83 00:04:18,076 --> 00:04:20,356 Speaker 3: You know, intellectually I knew that, of course. 84 00:04:20,116 --> 00:04:22,356 Speaker 2: We all know, like at any moment. You know, life 85 00:04:22,396 --> 00:04:22,876 Speaker 2: can change. 86 00:04:22,876 --> 00:04:25,356 Speaker 3: And of course even if I lost my sight or 87 00:04:25,636 --> 00:04:27,396 Speaker 3: any of my senses, I could still have a rich, 88 00:04:27,516 --> 00:04:31,276 Speaker 3: meaningful life. It was just that, somehow that moment made 89 00:04:31,356 --> 00:04:34,716 Speaker 3: me realize, oh my gosh, I'm taking everything for granted. 90 00:04:34,836 --> 00:04:38,076 Speaker 3: I'm not seeing what I'm looking at, I'm not tuning 91 00:04:38,116 --> 00:04:40,476 Speaker 3: into the world. I'm just stuck in my head and 92 00:04:40,556 --> 00:04:43,356 Speaker 3: everything is just passing me by. And if I lost it, 93 00:04:43,396 --> 00:04:46,716 Speaker 3: I would feel so so much regret for everything that 94 00:04:46,756 --> 00:04:47,476 Speaker 3: I had missed. 95 00:04:47,596 --> 00:04:50,036 Speaker 2: And so it got me very re oriented. 96 00:04:50,276 --> 00:04:52,516 Speaker 1: And so this is a shocking story to me about 97 00:04:52,556 --> 00:04:53,956 Speaker 1: you in particular for two reasons. 98 00:04:53,996 --> 00:04:54,156 Speaker 3: Right. 99 00:04:54,196 --> 00:04:57,396 Speaker 1: One is you're this incredibly well known happiness expert that's 100 00:04:57,476 --> 00:05:00,356 Speaker 1: into mindfulness, into paying attention. But I think beyond that, 101 00:05:00,396 --> 00:05:03,316 Speaker 1: you're known as somebody who cares a lot about your body. 102 00:05:03,356 --> 00:05:05,716 Speaker 1: You know, you've talked about your path to getting rid 103 00:05:05,756 --> 00:05:07,436 Speaker 1: of sugar in your life and trying to treat your 104 00:05:07,436 --> 00:05:09,596 Speaker 1: body better. But why do you I think in this 105 00:05:09,716 --> 00:05:11,996 Speaker 1: instant you were kind of unable to pay attention to 106 00:05:12,076 --> 00:05:13,836 Speaker 1: your body that you realize you were missing out on 107 00:05:13,876 --> 00:05:16,156 Speaker 1: so much of your visual experience. 108 00:05:16,476 --> 00:05:18,116 Speaker 2: Well, I mean this is exactly right. 109 00:05:18,236 --> 00:05:19,956 Speaker 3: You know, because on the one hand, you could say 110 00:05:19,956 --> 00:05:22,036 Speaker 3: if anything I was, you know, like doing you know, 111 00:05:22,196 --> 00:05:25,836 Speaker 3: do I'm like the street scientists that's constantly experimenting on myself. 112 00:05:25,876 --> 00:05:28,396 Speaker 2: But I completely neglected this one area. 113 00:05:28,676 --> 00:05:30,596 Speaker 3: I was exactly as you say in some ways, like 114 00:05:30,596 --> 00:05:33,116 Speaker 3: I was very focused on things like sleep and exercise 115 00:05:33,156 --> 00:05:37,756 Speaker 3: and morning sunlight. But I wasn't thinking about seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, 116 00:05:37,836 --> 00:05:41,076 Speaker 3: smelling in a kind of systematic way, which is really 117 00:05:41,076 --> 00:05:43,836 Speaker 3: how I like to approach things. And so, yeah, it 118 00:05:43,876 --> 00:05:46,316 Speaker 3: really was this era. And I had had this feeling 119 00:05:46,556 --> 00:05:49,956 Speaker 3: that something was missing that in all my study of happiness, 120 00:05:49,996 --> 00:05:52,716 Speaker 3: I had a feeling, Okay, there's something that I'm skipping 121 00:05:52,956 --> 00:05:55,196 Speaker 3: over and I couldn't put my finger on. 122 00:05:55,116 --> 00:05:55,756 Speaker 2: What that was. 123 00:05:56,036 --> 00:05:58,396 Speaker 3: And then it was like everything clicked into place when 124 00:05:58,396 --> 00:06:00,836 Speaker 3: I realized that it was the experience of my five senses. 125 00:06:00,956 --> 00:06:02,436 Speaker 1: And I think this is something that all of us 126 00:06:02,516 --> 00:06:04,676 Speaker 1: go through, right, you know. I mean I teach about 127 00:06:04,676 --> 00:06:06,516 Speaker 1: happiness and study it too, but I think in our 128 00:06:06,556 --> 00:06:09,716 Speaker 1: busy lives, we can just forget about the importance of noticing, 129 00:06:09,956 --> 00:06:13,116 Speaker 1: just like being present and noticing all the little things. Yes, 130 00:06:13,276 --> 00:06:15,756 Speaker 1: but your wake up call really changed things for you, 131 00:06:15,836 --> 00:06:18,076 Speaker 1: where you really kind of made a decision to pay attention, 132 00:06:18,236 --> 00:06:20,796 Speaker 1: and you started even with that first walk back from 133 00:06:20,836 --> 00:06:23,956 Speaker 1: the doctor's office, right, So tell me what that was like. 134 00:06:24,356 --> 00:06:27,316 Speaker 3: Well, and that wasn't that wasn't voluntary, That wasn't like 135 00:06:27,356 --> 00:06:29,196 Speaker 3: a mindfulness exercise that I did. 136 00:06:29,316 --> 00:06:32,596 Speaker 2: It was It was psychedelic. It was it was like 137 00:06:32,716 --> 00:06:33,836 Speaker 2: a knob in my. 138 00:06:33,876 --> 00:06:37,956 Speaker 3: Brain had been turned all the way up to maximum 139 00:06:37,996 --> 00:06:40,196 Speaker 3: and it was like I could see everything here, everything, 140 00:06:40,316 --> 00:06:43,476 Speaker 3: smell everything, I mean, the feel of the wind on 141 00:06:43,556 --> 00:06:46,556 Speaker 3: my cheeks, or just the sidewalk under my feet, or 142 00:06:46,636 --> 00:06:49,156 Speaker 3: you know, I just couldn't stop touching things like the 143 00:06:49,276 --> 00:06:49,996 Speaker 3: lamp post. 144 00:06:50,316 --> 00:06:50,516 Speaker 1: You know. 145 00:06:50,636 --> 00:06:52,956 Speaker 3: It was like twenty minutes. I live in New York City, 146 00:06:52,956 --> 00:06:54,716 Speaker 3: so I was walking home from the eye doctor and 147 00:06:54,756 --> 00:06:57,516 Speaker 3: it was just like I still remember the plants that 148 00:06:57,556 --> 00:07:00,476 Speaker 3: were in the tree wells and the smell of the 149 00:07:00,556 --> 00:07:03,756 Speaker 3: nuts for nuts cart that was walking around. It was 150 00:07:03,916 --> 00:07:06,076 Speaker 3: just it was as if all of a sudden, I 151 00:07:06,116 --> 00:07:10,836 Speaker 3: had access to this super intense, super rich and vivid 152 00:07:11,356 --> 00:07:13,756 Speaker 3: experience of my own life, which by the way, was 153 00:07:13,796 --> 00:07:16,556 Speaker 3: there all the time and I could have experienced at 154 00:07:16,596 --> 00:07:20,636 Speaker 3: any moment, and it was just that somehow, in this moment, 155 00:07:20,796 --> 00:07:24,836 Speaker 3: my brain just flipped open everything that had been screening 156 00:07:24,876 --> 00:07:27,996 Speaker 3: things out, and I had access to this much more 157 00:07:28,236 --> 00:07:31,556 Speaker 3: intense experience of just, you know, an ordinary walk through 158 00:07:31,556 --> 00:07:32,836 Speaker 3: my neighborhood. 159 00:07:32,556 --> 00:07:35,196 Speaker 1: And seeing the power of this ordinary walk that could 160 00:07:35,196 --> 00:07:37,476 Speaker 1: get so intense when you paid attention. That kind of 161 00:07:37,516 --> 00:07:40,156 Speaker 1: started you on a new Gretchen project. I think my 162 00:07:40,236 --> 00:07:42,516 Speaker 1: listeners know. But you're known for kind of, as you said, 163 00:07:42,596 --> 00:07:45,196 Speaker 1: being a street scientist and turning you know, these things 164 00:07:45,236 --> 00:07:46,436 Speaker 1: into personal projects. 165 00:07:46,436 --> 00:07:49,276 Speaker 2: And so, yeah, I've met Getna pig for myself, yes. 166 00:07:49,676 --> 00:07:52,276 Speaker 1: And so what was the new experiment you decided to 167 00:07:52,356 --> 00:07:53,116 Speaker 1: run on yourself. 168 00:07:53,276 --> 00:07:55,196 Speaker 2: Well, we you know, the more you know, the more 169 00:07:55,236 --> 00:07:57,036 Speaker 2: you notice. We all have experienced that. 170 00:07:57,036 --> 00:07:58,796 Speaker 3: So I thought, okay, I need to learn more about 171 00:07:58,796 --> 00:08:01,236 Speaker 3: my senses because I don't really know much about how 172 00:08:01,276 --> 00:08:05,516 Speaker 3: they work. I didn't think very much about well, surely 173 00:08:05,716 --> 00:08:08,196 Speaker 3: I more tapped into some of my senses but not 174 00:08:08,316 --> 00:08:12,396 Speaker 3: the others. Kind of what is my personal landscape of sense? 175 00:08:12,876 --> 00:08:14,996 Speaker 3: And then I thought, well, let me figure out ways 176 00:08:15,236 --> 00:08:19,996 Speaker 3: to explore it, investigate it, indulge it, deprivate, Like what 177 00:08:20,076 --> 00:08:22,596 Speaker 3: are all the things that I could try in order 178 00:08:22,676 --> 00:08:25,836 Speaker 3: to awaken myself to the senses? And sometimes that was 179 00:08:25,916 --> 00:08:29,036 Speaker 3: sort of intellectual, like I took a perfume class and 180 00:08:29,116 --> 00:08:31,916 Speaker 3: learned all about perfume, But then it was also experience, 181 00:08:31,996 --> 00:08:33,836 Speaker 3: Like in that same perfume class, we spent a lot 182 00:08:33,836 --> 00:08:36,276 Speaker 3: of times just sniffing and thinking, you know, what does 183 00:08:36,316 --> 00:08:37,156 Speaker 3: this smell like? 184 00:08:37,316 --> 00:08:39,236 Speaker 2: And it's what does it smell like? 185 00:08:39,516 --> 00:08:42,116 Speaker 3: And so I did it very systematically, and I think 186 00:08:42,196 --> 00:08:43,436 Speaker 3: for a lot of people that's sort of like, oh, 187 00:08:43,516 --> 00:08:45,636 Speaker 3: like Gretch and Rubin do all the research and like 188 00:08:45,756 --> 00:08:47,796 Speaker 3: lay out a framework, so I don't have to do that. 189 00:08:48,116 --> 00:08:49,876 Speaker 2: You know, I'll just come in for the fun parts. 190 00:08:50,036 --> 00:08:53,196 Speaker 3: But it was just absolutely fascinating to learn more about 191 00:08:53,196 --> 00:08:53,756 Speaker 3: our senses. 192 00:08:53,996 --> 00:08:55,836 Speaker 1: So as you embarked on this new experiment, what were 193 00:08:55,836 --> 00:08:57,476 Speaker 1: some of the goals that you had for yourself. 194 00:08:57,636 --> 00:08:59,556 Speaker 3: Well, one thing is I wanted to learn more because true, 195 00:08:59,636 --> 00:09:01,116 Speaker 3: I do think that the more you know, the more 196 00:09:01,156 --> 00:09:05,276 Speaker 3: you notice. So I wanted to understand how my body worked, 197 00:09:05,276 --> 00:09:08,116 Speaker 3: how the senses work more. I wanted to find ways 198 00:09:08,196 --> 00:09:13,476 Speaker 3: to deepen appreciation by exploring and investigating. I also though, 199 00:09:13,556 --> 00:09:16,396 Speaker 3: I wanted to connect with other people more deeply, and 200 00:09:16,436 --> 00:09:18,796 Speaker 3: I had this sense that I could do that through 201 00:09:18,876 --> 00:09:21,196 Speaker 3: my senses. I wanted to tap into memories. One of 202 00:09:21,236 --> 00:09:23,276 Speaker 3: the things that I don't like very much about myself 203 00:09:23,316 --> 00:09:24,956 Speaker 3: is I don't have good memory. I don't have a 204 00:09:24,956 --> 00:09:26,996 Speaker 3: good sense of memory for my past the way some 205 00:09:27,036 --> 00:09:29,236 Speaker 3: people do. And I thought the senses are famous for 206 00:09:29,316 --> 00:09:30,316 Speaker 3: their ability. 207 00:09:29,876 --> 00:09:31,796 Speaker 2: To evote memory. I wanted to tap into that. 208 00:09:31,836 --> 00:09:34,356 Speaker 3: I also wanted to tap into its ability to connect 209 00:09:34,356 --> 00:09:35,156 Speaker 3: me to the present. 210 00:09:35,236 --> 00:09:37,516 Speaker 2: Another thing that the senses are very well known for is. 211 00:09:37,476 --> 00:09:41,316 Speaker 3: Like being able to really appreciate this moment right here, 212 00:09:41,396 --> 00:09:44,396 Speaker 3: right now. I wanted just more delight. I suspected that 213 00:09:44,436 --> 00:09:46,956 Speaker 3: it would help me spark my creativity. I wasn't sure how, 214 00:09:46,996 --> 00:09:49,116 Speaker 3: but it just sort of felt like that might happen. 215 00:09:49,196 --> 00:09:51,356 Speaker 3: I wanted to know how that would happen. I had 216 00:09:51,356 --> 00:09:53,236 Speaker 3: a sense that it was another way to tap into 217 00:09:53,236 --> 00:09:54,996 Speaker 3: my body. As you say, I'm very focused on like 218 00:09:55,036 --> 00:09:57,716 Speaker 3: the physical experience, because our physical experience always colors our 219 00:09:57,756 --> 00:10:00,916 Speaker 3: emotional experience. So I thought, well, how can I dial 220 00:10:00,996 --> 00:10:04,356 Speaker 3: into my senses to kind of energize me and also 221 00:10:04,516 --> 00:10:05,276 Speaker 3: calm me down. 222 00:10:05,436 --> 00:10:07,556 Speaker 2: And it turns out that the senses just. 223 00:10:08,076 --> 00:10:10,276 Speaker 3: They just add so much to life in all these 224 00:10:10,316 --> 00:10:11,156 Speaker 3: different areas. 225 00:10:11,276 --> 00:10:13,196 Speaker 2: It was sort of overwhelming. 226 00:10:12,876 --> 00:10:16,156 Speaker 1: And so you started by attending to site. Why did 227 00:10:16,156 --> 00:10:18,236 Speaker 1: you pick site to start with as a sense to 228 00:10:18,276 --> 00:10:19,196 Speaker 1: pay attention to more. 229 00:10:19,116 --> 00:10:21,276 Speaker 3: Deeply, Well, for a couple of reasons. One is, you 230 00:10:21,356 --> 00:10:24,276 Speaker 3: know we're wired for site. Site takes up the biggest 231 00:10:24,276 --> 00:10:26,156 Speaker 3: part of the real estate and the brain of the senses. 232 00:10:26,396 --> 00:10:27,996 Speaker 3: And then it's also if you were going to say, like, well, 233 00:10:28,076 --> 00:10:31,276 Speaker 3: what are the kind of Kindergarten senses? Of the Aristotelian senses, 234 00:10:31,276 --> 00:10:35,756 Speaker 3: they usually are named in the same order seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching, 235 00:10:35,796 --> 00:10:37,716 Speaker 3: And that makes sense because seeing, as I said, sort 236 00:10:37,756 --> 00:10:40,036 Speaker 3: of is the most the most dominant one, and when 237 00:10:40,076 --> 00:10:43,796 Speaker 3: there's a disagreement among the senses, site usually triumphs, which 238 00:10:44,076 --> 00:10:46,516 Speaker 3: leads to a lot of interesting effects. Next is hearing, 239 00:10:46,556 --> 00:10:48,876 Speaker 3: and also seeing and hearing are things that we can 240 00:10:48,996 --> 00:10:51,476 Speaker 3: do at a distance. Then when things come a little 241 00:10:51,516 --> 00:10:54,036 Speaker 3: bit closer than we're going to smelling, and then even 242 00:10:54,076 --> 00:10:57,316 Speaker 3: closer tasting and smell has a huge influence on what 243 00:10:57,356 --> 00:10:59,756 Speaker 3: we taste, as unfortunately a lot of people experience when 244 00:10:59,756 --> 00:11:01,716 Speaker 3: they lost their sense of smell through COVID is you 245 00:11:01,756 --> 00:11:03,276 Speaker 3: lose your sense of smell, but then it also really 246 00:11:03,316 --> 00:11:05,036 Speaker 3: affects your sense of taste, So it makes sense that 247 00:11:05,196 --> 00:11:08,476 Speaker 3: smelling comes before tasting, and then touching is like kind 248 00:11:08,516 --> 00:11:12,356 Speaker 3: of the odd ball because everything else very neatly organized 249 00:11:12,356 --> 00:11:15,436 Speaker 3: on the head, but touching we do with our whole bodies. 250 00:11:15,796 --> 00:11:18,636 Speaker 3: You know, it's direct contact, and that's just kind of 251 00:11:18,676 --> 00:11:20,676 Speaker 3: the order in which they're usually listed to. So it 252 00:11:20,716 --> 00:11:23,996 Speaker 3: felt like the most sort of expected way that people 253 00:11:24,036 --> 00:11:25,676 Speaker 3: would see this progression unfolding. 254 00:11:25,836 --> 00:11:27,116 Speaker 1: And so there are lots of things you could pay 255 00:11:27,116 --> 00:11:29,836 Speaker 1: attention to with the site. You could look at different sheeps, 256 00:11:29,876 --> 00:11:31,996 Speaker 1: you know, you could kind of like pay attention to 257 00:11:32,036 --> 00:11:34,076 Speaker 1: all kinds of different lines and things. But one of 258 00:11:34,076 --> 00:11:36,156 Speaker 1: the things you started with was color. So tell me 259 00:11:36,196 --> 00:11:37,796 Speaker 1: a little bit about the Scarlet project. 260 00:11:38,076 --> 00:11:40,516 Speaker 3: Oh well, I went through even before this, I went 261 00:11:40,556 --> 00:11:44,396 Speaker 3: through this strange period of being absolutely preoccupied by color. 262 00:11:44,516 --> 00:11:49,276 Speaker 3: I'm so interested in color and just the enormous richness 263 00:11:49,396 --> 00:11:52,196 Speaker 3: of color, and so I wanted to pick a color 264 00:11:52,236 --> 00:11:54,796 Speaker 3: to collect. I am not a natural collector, but this 265 00:11:54,876 --> 00:11:58,396 Speaker 3: is something that people find to be enormously fun and exciting, 266 00:11:58,396 --> 00:12:00,236 Speaker 3: and it kind of makes the world more fun because 267 00:12:00,276 --> 00:12:02,196 Speaker 3: a quest is more fun than a jaunt, So going 268 00:12:02,236 --> 00:12:04,196 Speaker 3: to look for something is more interesting than just sort 269 00:12:04,196 --> 00:12:05,276 Speaker 3: of browsing around. 270 00:12:05,076 --> 00:12:08,436 Speaker 2: So I decided scarlet. I love the word scarlet, I 271 00:12:08,476 --> 00:12:11,436 Speaker 2: love the color scarlet. I loved like that deep rich red. 272 00:12:11,996 --> 00:12:14,556 Speaker 3: It's common enough that you find it, it's not so 273 00:12:14,636 --> 00:12:17,436 Speaker 3: common that like one out of every two things is like, 274 00:12:17,596 --> 00:12:20,116 Speaker 3: you know, royal blue. And at the same time, I 275 00:12:20,156 --> 00:12:21,836 Speaker 3: was also doing this thing with my daughter where we 276 00:12:21,836 --> 00:12:24,156 Speaker 3: would go on these sort of adventures once a week 277 00:12:24,196 --> 00:12:27,236 Speaker 3: after school, and she was in that teenage phase where 278 00:12:27,276 --> 00:12:29,556 Speaker 3: you get really into thrist stores. So I thought, well, 279 00:12:29,596 --> 00:12:32,396 Speaker 3: we'll go and I'll look for something for scarlet for 280 00:12:32,516 --> 00:12:34,836 Speaker 3: my collection, and that that will give me something to 281 00:12:34,836 --> 00:12:36,316 Speaker 3: look for while we're together. 282 00:12:36,396 --> 00:12:37,036 Speaker 2: So it was a way. 283 00:12:37,156 --> 00:12:39,076 Speaker 3: It was something that brought us together and made this 284 00:12:39,436 --> 00:12:42,396 Speaker 3: like this weekly experience more fun. And it's really interesting 285 00:12:42,396 --> 00:12:45,676 Speaker 3: about color that if you have just any bunch of 286 00:12:45,876 --> 00:12:48,156 Speaker 3: you see a lot of art artworks that are created 287 00:12:48,196 --> 00:12:50,636 Speaker 3: with this in mind, where if you just take a 288 00:12:50,676 --> 00:12:53,516 Speaker 3: lot of things that are the same color, they just 289 00:12:53,636 --> 00:12:58,476 Speaker 3: are automatically interesting and kind of harmonious and fascinating. So 290 00:12:58,556 --> 00:13:00,476 Speaker 3: I thought, well, I'll do that with scarlet, and do 291 00:13:00,556 --> 00:13:03,636 Speaker 3: that myself, copy some of these artists that I've seen doing. 292 00:13:03,436 --> 00:13:05,436 Speaker 1: That, And so what were some of your favorite scarlet 293 00:13:05,436 --> 00:13:06,076 Speaker 1: things that you found. 294 00:13:06,196 --> 00:13:08,356 Speaker 3: I mean they're just they're just like these little objects. 295 00:13:08,356 --> 00:13:10,396 Speaker 3: Like one the first I got was like a plastic 296 00:13:10,476 --> 00:13:11,236 Speaker 3: fire truck. 297 00:13:11,396 --> 00:13:12,356 Speaker 2: I have a tomato. 298 00:13:12,876 --> 00:13:18,556 Speaker 3: I have a sort of a Ryanstone heart. It's it's 299 00:13:18,956 --> 00:13:21,196 Speaker 3: thrift store stuff. So a lot of times it's that's 300 00:13:21,276 --> 00:13:23,276 Speaker 3: kind of what's funny about it. It's a little bit random. 301 00:13:23,516 --> 00:13:25,516 Speaker 3: I love fake food. I've always loved fake food for 302 00:13:25,516 --> 00:13:28,036 Speaker 3: some reason. I have like a fake little dessert cake. 303 00:13:28,636 --> 00:13:31,756 Speaker 3: And the scarlet bird that's like the kind of thing 304 00:13:31,756 --> 00:13:33,756 Speaker 3: that you would wire I guess into sort of like 305 00:13:33,796 --> 00:13:36,196 Speaker 3: a Christmas wreath or something like that. 306 00:13:36,716 --> 00:13:38,676 Speaker 1: But what I love most about this list is that, like, 307 00:13:38,836 --> 00:13:41,276 Speaker 1: you're finding things that we might think of is not 308 00:13:41,436 --> 00:13:44,756 Speaker 1: very interesting in the objective, right, you know, maybe garbage, 309 00:13:44,876 --> 00:13:48,516 Speaker 1: maybe garbage. But what you're doing is, yeah, you're turning 310 00:13:48,716 --> 00:13:52,236 Speaker 1: even these mundane, boring, garbagey objects into kind of like 311 00:13:52,276 --> 00:13:54,636 Speaker 1: their own museum, their own kind of art piece. And 312 00:13:54,676 --> 00:13:57,996 Speaker 1: that's the power of just noticing color that you found, right. 313 00:13:58,036 --> 00:14:01,636 Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, And it's so fun because it's the kind 314 00:14:01,676 --> 00:14:03,516 Speaker 3: of thing where you're like, why would anybody even bother 315 00:14:03,636 --> 00:14:04,876 Speaker 3: to like sell. 316 00:14:04,636 --> 00:14:08,156 Speaker 2: This or even manufacture it, like what is the point 317 00:14:08,316 --> 00:14:08,636 Speaker 2: of this? 318 00:14:08,756 --> 00:14:10,916 Speaker 3: And then but to me, I'm like, you know, it's 319 00:14:10,916 --> 00:14:13,156 Speaker 3: like perfect, and I get very excited. 320 00:14:13,236 --> 00:14:15,956 Speaker 2: So it really does. It enlivened the world and lets 321 00:14:15,996 --> 00:14:16,676 Speaker 2: me see these. 322 00:14:16,556 --> 00:14:18,636 Speaker 3: Kind of creative possibilities in it in a way that 323 00:14:18,676 --> 00:14:20,996 Speaker 3: I never did before. So it is it's really exciting 324 00:14:21,036 --> 00:14:21,556 Speaker 3: in that way. 325 00:14:21,716 --> 00:14:24,436 Speaker 1: Another exciting part of paying attention to color was that 326 00:14:24,476 --> 00:14:27,396 Speaker 1: you started noticing your judgments of color. Right when you 327 00:14:27,436 --> 00:14:29,716 Speaker 1: walk through the world and you're not paying attention. You know, 328 00:14:29,756 --> 00:14:32,276 Speaker 1: they're oranges and blues and yellows, but all of a 329 00:14:32,316 --> 00:14:35,036 Speaker 1: sudden you start noticing that some are better than others. 330 00:14:35,316 --> 00:14:38,316 Speaker 1: So talk about collecting these examples of which colors were, 331 00:14:38,396 --> 00:14:40,636 Speaker 1: you know, pristinely good in their own sense. 332 00:14:41,356 --> 00:14:45,076 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting about color, because are some colors better 333 00:14:45,116 --> 00:14:47,676 Speaker 3: than other colors? This is like a zen color, I think, 334 00:14:47,916 --> 00:14:52,116 Speaker 3: But yes, just looking out for color combinations or I 335 00:14:52,156 --> 00:14:54,916 Speaker 3: did this really fun thing where you know, Pantone has 336 00:14:54,956 --> 00:14:56,516 Speaker 3: its color of the Year, which I'm always you know, 337 00:14:56,516 --> 00:14:58,356 Speaker 3: on the edge of my seat to see. One of 338 00:14:58,356 --> 00:15:00,356 Speaker 3: the exercises that I do is go to the met 339 00:15:00,436 --> 00:15:02,676 Speaker 3: every day, and so i'd go to the metropolit museum, 340 00:15:02,716 --> 00:15:05,556 Speaker 3: and I would look for a specific color if it 341 00:15:05,596 --> 00:15:06,996 Speaker 3: was the color of the year, or sometimes I would 342 00:15:07,036 --> 00:15:08,836 Speaker 3: just pick a color at random and just go look 343 00:15:08,876 --> 00:15:12,036 Speaker 3: for it in paintings and other artworks. And that was 344 00:15:12,076 --> 00:15:15,636 Speaker 3: a super fun way to look for color because a 345 00:15:15,636 --> 00:15:17,396 Speaker 3: lot of times it's not where you would expect to 346 00:15:17,436 --> 00:15:20,116 Speaker 3: see it. Or I could sort of test my knowledge 347 00:15:20,156 --> 00:15:21,756 Speaker 3: of the met and being like, Okay, I think that 348 00:15:21,756 --> 00:15:24,916 Speaker 3: I'm going to see this kind of olive green in Impressionism, 349 00:15:25,116 --> 00:15:26,796 Speaker 3: But did they actually use this all of green? 350 00:15:26,956 --> 00:15:28,836 Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe it's more of a medieval color. 351 00:15:28,876 --> 00:15:29,796 Speaker 2: I'll have to go see. 352 00:15:29,996 --> 00:15:32,236 Speaker 1: I think the best orange is like a pumpkin orange, 353 00:15:32,276 --> 00:15:33,436 Speaker 1: like a good sugar pumpkin. 354 00:15:33,716 --> 00:15:34,036 Speaker 3: Uh huh. 355 00:15:34,276 --> 00:15:39,036 Speaker 1: So the color of Luke Skywalker's X Wing Fighter uniform 356 00:15:39,076 --> 00:15:40,876 Speaker 1: and the original Star Wars, it's like he's got this 357 00:15:40,916 --> 00:15:43,916 Speaker 1: orange home, and that's that's like the perfect pristine orange. 358 00:15:43,996 --> 00:15:46,876 Speaker 1: And so this was like a ridiculous dinner party conversation 359 00:15:46,956 --> 00:15:48,996 Speaker 1: for me and my friends for like days, right, and 360 00:15:48,996 --> 00:15:51,676 Speaker 1: then later they text me like saha, great blue, like 361 00:15:51,796 --> 00:15:54,236 Speaker 1: you know, or like the orange and the walk sign 362 00:15:54,356 --> 00:15:57,036 Speaker 1: is terrible, like the don't walk orange is awful, right, 363 00:15:57,676 --> 00:15:59,596 Speaker 1: And so, but I think this is not this is 364 00:15:59,796 --> 00:16:01,716 Speaker 1: you know, often when we think of the benefits that 365 00:16:01,756 --> 00:16:03,916 Speaker 1: we might get from paying attention to senses like sight, 366 00:16:04,036 --> 00:16:06,916 Speaker 1: we assume it's internal, right, it's mindful, I'll be less bored, 367 00:16:06,956 --> 00:16:09,716 Speaker 1: I'll notice these magnificent things. But you were also seeing 368 00:16:09,756 --> 00:16:11,356 Speaker 1: that this could be really social too. 369 00:16:12,276 --> 00:16:15,516 Speaker 3: Yes, No, and that I love this example of you 370 00:16:15,556 --> 00:16:18,356 Speaker 3: and your friends like trading back good good oranges and 371 00:16:18,396 --> 00:16:19,036 Speaker 3: bad oranges. 372 00:16:19,676 --> 00:16:21,796 Speaker 2: No, it turns out this is a really really good 373 00:16:21,796 --> 00:16:22,916 Speaker 2: way to connect with other people. 374 00:16:22,916 --> 00:16:24,836 Speaker 3: And in fact, a hack that I learned is that 375 00:16:24,916 --> 00:16:26,596 Speaker 3: if like, let's say you're in a situation where you 376 00:16:26,636 --> 00:16:28,756 Speaker 3: don't know anybody and you're sort of desperately trying to 377 00:16:28,756 --> 00:16:31,036 Speaker 3: think of something to say to somebody who you do 378 00:16:31,116 --> 00:16:32,916 Speaker 3: not know, a really good thing to do is to 379 00:16:32,956 --> 00:16:36,356 Speaker 3: comment on a sensation that both of you are experiencing 380 00:16:36,396 --> 00:16:37,076 Speaker 3: at the same time. 381 00:16:37,156 --> 00:16:39,196 Speaker 2: So what do you think of this music? Or have 382 00:16:39,316 --> 00:16:40,196 Speaker 2: you tried the food? 383 00:16:40,556 --> 00:16:42,596 Speaker 3: Or I love the I love the art on the 384 00:16:42,636 --> 00:16:45,116 Speaker 3: walls of this apartment, or whatever it might be, Because 385 00:16:45,156 --> 00:16:47,556 Speaker 3: that is something that's just like you're both experiencing and 386 00:16:47,596 --> 00:16:49,556 Speaker 3: at the same time, it's it's and it is a 387 00:16:49,596 --> 00:16:50,596 Speaker 3: really good way to be. 388 00:16:50,596 --> 00:16:51,916 Speaker 2: Social, but I did. 389 00:16:51,996 --> 00:16:54,236 Speaker 3: Over and over, I found that I was able to 390 00:16:54,356 --> 00:16:56,436 Speaker 3: connect with other people more deeply through senses. 391 00:16:56,516 --> 00:16:58,796 Speaker 2: Now, sometimes this was as obvious as. 392 00:16:58,516 --> 00:17:01,916 Speaker 3: Like my daughters and I tested each other on smells, 393 00:17:01,956 --> 00:17:05,076 Speaker 3: and that was just sort of silly and fun we 394 00:17:04,636 --> 00:17:08,796 Speaker 3: made We made a non Newtonian fluid out of quicksand like, 395 00:17:08,836 --> 00:17:11,516 Speaker 3: that's also super fun. But then I also thought, well, 396 00:17:11,556 --> 00:17:13,556 Speaker 3: I'll use my sense of taste to connect with my 397 00:17:13,596 --> 00:17:15,596 Speaker 3: mother in law. And we went on a walk on 398 00:17:15,596 --> 00:17:17,916 Speaker 3: the Lori East side. Because she was raised eating traditional 399 00:17:17,996 --> 00:17:21,756 Speaker 3: Jewish foods, she cooks those herself still sometimes and Lourie's 400 00:17:21,756 --> 00:17:24,796 Speaker 3: side is famous for having many kind of world renowned 401 00:17:24,796 --> 00:17:27,676 Speaker 3: places that I sell traditional Jewish food, and let's go. 402 00:17:27,636 --> 00:17:29,836 Speaker 2: On a tour with her and have her tell us. 403 00:17:30,316 --> 00:17:31,676 Speaker 3: First it was just going to be me, but then 404 00:17:31,676 --> 00:17:33,436 Speaker 3: when my daughter's heard about it, they wanted to come 405 00:17:33,476 --> 00:17:36,516 Speaker 3: too and hear about her memories. And this was something 406 00:17:36,516 --> 00:17:38,596 Speaker 3: where you know, I've known my mother in law for decades. 407 00:17:39,036 --> 00:17:41,356 Speaker 3: I feel like I know her quite well, but we'd 408 00:17:41,396 --> 00:17:43,116 Speaker 3: never really talked through it, and I got a much 409 00:17:43,156 --> 00:17:45,236 Speaker 3: deeper sense of like what her life was like on 410 00:17:45,276 --> 00:17:47,596 Speaker 3: it just sort of like a very day to day level, 411 00:17:47,796 --> 00:17:51,116 Speaker 3: and even of her family members, just talking about her 412 00:17:51,116 --> 00:17:53,836 Speaker 3: grandmother's cooking, what her father. 413 00:17:53,636 --> 00:17:55,436 Speaker 2: Would do on Friday nights, things like that. 414 00:17:55,556 --> 00:17:57,836 Speaker 3: It was a super fun adventure and it was kind 415 00:17:57,836 --> 00:18:00,756 Speaker 3: of more active than just me quizzing her about her childhood, 416 00:18:00,796 --> 00:18:03,636 Speaker 3: which I don't know that I ever would have done otherwise, 417 00:18:03,796 --> 00:18:07,836 Speaker 3: But this gave us a reason to reflect on those memories. 418 00:18:08,076 --> 00:18:10,876 Speaker 3: And it was also very very memorable as like a 419 00:18:10,956 --> 00:18:13,196 Speaker 3: thing that we did. There was the day that we 420 00:18:13,276 --> 00:18:15,356 Speaker 3: went we all went to the Lower East Side together, 421 00:18:15,596 --> 00:18:17,516 Speaker 3: and you know, I'll remember that forever. 422 00:18:17,916 --> 00:18:19,796 Speaker 1: Another way that you use site to connect socially was 423 00:18:19,876 --> 00:18:23,396 Speaker 1: just to start paying close attention to the visual input 424 00:18:23,436 --> 00:18:25,996 Speaker 1: you're getting from the people you loved. You know, talk 425 00:18:26,036 --> 00:18:27,636 Speaker 1: about how you did this with your husband Jamie. 426 00:18:27,796 --> 00:18:29,596 Speaker 3: Oh, I mean I realized that I was looking, you know, 427 00:18:29,636 --> 00:18:32,276 Speaker 3: I looked at Jamie without seeing him, and there were 428 00:18:32,316 --> 00:18:33,396 Speaker 3: all kinds of things. 429 00:18:33,156 --> 00:18:34,236 Speaker 2: That I started to notice. 430 00:18:34,276 --> 00:18:36,036 Speaker 3: And one of the things you see is when you 431 00:18:36,076 --> 00:18:38,236 Speaker 3: see the outer person, you also get insight into the 432 00:18:38,236 --> 00:18:40,476 Speaker 3: inner person. Because there were clues to what was going 433 00:18:40,516 --> 00:18:43,076 Speaker 3: on inside Jamie from things that were happening right in 434 00:18:43,076 --> 00:18:44,956 Speaker 3: front of my eyes. I mean, like a good thing 435 00:18:45,076 --> 00:18:47,156 Speaker 3: was I realized, like Jamie sort of bought himself some 436 00:18:47,196 --> 00:18:48,916 Speaker 3: new shirts that kind of had a little bit of 437 00:18:48,956 --> 00:18:50,156 Speaker 3: a boulder pattern. 438 00:18:49,876 --> 00:18:50,836 Speaker 2: And we're a little more fitted. 439 00:18:50,876 --> 00:18:52,556 Speaker 3: I was like, oh, you know, Jamie is like he's 440 00:18:52,636 --> 00:18:54,956 Speaker 3: kicking it up and not you know, he's busting out 441 00:18:54,996 --> 00:18:56,796 Speaker 3: a little bit. But then there was other things where 442 00:18:56,916 --> 00:19:00,236 Speaker 3: Jamie I realized that I had been. When I came 443 00:19:00,276 --> 00:19:02,356 Speaker 3: down in the morning, I would see a peanut butter 444 00:19:02,476 --> 00:19:06,076 Speaker 3: encrusted spoon on the counter. Why people in my family 445 00:19:06,596 --> 00:19:09,476 Speaker 3: just do not rinse their peanut butter spoon, I do 446 00:19:09,556 --> 00:19:12,276 Speaker 3: not know. This is like a whole family thing, long story, 447 00:19:12,516 --> 00:19:14,316 Speaker 3: but I would just see this on the counter, and 448 00:19:14,556 --> 00:19:16,996 Speaker 3: I knew that a spoonful of peanut butter was his 449 00:19:17,036 --> 00:19:19,596 Speaker 3: favorite midnight snack, but I didn't think anything of it. 450 00:19:19,636 --> 00:19:21,516 Speaker 3: I just kind of dealt with the spoon day after day. 451 00:19:21,556 --> 00:19:23,396 Speaker 3: And then finally I thought like, let me really look 452 00:19:23,436 --> 00:19:25,916 Speaker 3: at the spoon, and what this spoon is telling me 453 00:19:26,116 --> 00:19:29,236 Speaker 3: is that Jamie is not sleeping because he's having this 454 00:19:29,396 --> 00:19:31,756 Speaker 3: midnight snack night after night after night. And so then 455 00:19:31,796 --> 00:19:34,036 Speaker 3: I said to him, you know, is something on your mind? 456 00:19:34,076 --> 00:19:35,756 Speaker 3: And it turned out like he was dealing them with 457 00:19:35,796 --> 00:19:37,476 Speaker 3: this sort of tricky situation at work. 458 00:19:37,556 --> 00:19:38,876 Speaker 2: But it was like there. 459 00:19:38,796 --> 00:19:43,236 Speaker 3: Was this visual clue that I had been overlooking. But 460 00:19:43,316 --> 00:19:46,156 Speaker 3: then once I really sort of registered what I saw, 461 00:19:46,476 --> 00:19:50,436 Speaker 3: then I could be more attentive, you know, and tune 462 00:19:50,436 --> 00:19:54,676 Speaker 3: into his inner landscape by viewing the outer landscape. 463 00:19:54,236 --> 00:19:54,916 Speaker 2: Over our apartment. 464 00:19:54,956 --> 00:19:57,316 Speaker 1: And this kind of registering allowed you to make some 465 00:19:57,436 --> 00:19:59,836 Speaker 1: changes to your own inner landscape. I think one of 466 00:19:59,916 --> 00:20:01,876 Speaker 1: the things we forget we can do with our senses 467 00:20:01,996 --> 00:20:04,916 Speaker 1: is that we can curate them, y you know, And 468 00:20:04,956 --> 00:20:06,716 Speaker 1: so I know you did this. You kind of had 469 00:20:06,716 --> 00:20:09,116 Speaker 1: this inspiration from a vase of flowers that you saw, 470 00:20:09,356 --> 00:20:11,076 Speaker 1: you know, So talk about the kind of insight that 471 00:20:11,116 --> 00:20:13,716 Speaker 1: you got about we can change our own inner landscape 472 00:20:13,716 --> 00:20:16,476 Speaker 1: by just changing what's in our visual meal you well, 473 00:20:16,476 --> 00:20:16,756 Speaker 1: And this. 474 00:20:16,756 --> 00:20:18,636 Speaker 2: Is true of all of our senses. It's really interesting, 475 00:20:18,676 --> 00:20:21,276 Speaker 2: I think to a very great degree. And Marie, maybe 476 00:20:21,276 --> 00:20:22,436 Speaker 2: you see this with happiness too. 477 00:20:22,436 --> 00:20:24,316 Speaker 3: I think for some people they feel like almost like 478 00:20:24,356 --> 00:20:26,956 Speaker 3: happiness is something that either does or does not wash 479 00:20:26,996 --> 00:20:29,196 Speaker 3: over them, and they're not that focused on like, well, 480 00:20:29,196 --> 00:20:31,476 Speaker 3: what could I do that might raise or lower my 481 00:20:31,516 --> 00:20:34,076 Speaker 3: happiness level? Like what is within my conscious control. Not 482 00:20:34,116 --> 00:20:36,876 Speaker 3: everything's within my conscious control, but some things are. And 483 00:20:36,916 --> 00:20:39,236 Speaker 3: this is absolutely true with sensation. I realized I was 484 00:20:39,356 --> 00:20:41,756 Speaker 3: very passive. I was just like, well, it. 485 00:20:41,676 --> 00:20:43,516 Speaker 2: Is what it is. What are you gonna do? 486 00:20:43,716 --> 00:20:45,796 Speaker 3: You know, and instead of realizing like, there's a lot 487 00:20:45,916 --> 00:20:49,356 Speaker 3: you can do to affect and again, not everything, not 488 00:20:49,436 --> 00:20:52,556 Speaker 3: everything's within our control, and people certainly have different responses, 489 00:20:52,596 --> 00:20:54,356 Speaker 3: but there are things that we can do and even 490 00:20:54,396 --> 00:20:56,396 Speaker 3: to realize, like, other people are fine with this, but 491 00:20:56,436 --> 00:20:58,676 Speaker 3: this is really bothering me, and I need to take 492 00:20:58,716 --> 00:21:00,796 Speaker 3: steps to it. I mean, a really good example of 493 00:21:00,836 --> 00:21:06,236 Speaker 3: this is some people are very very captured by their smartphone, 494 00:21:06,356 --> 00:21:09,476 Speaker 3: Like they feel uncomfortable with how much time they spend 495 00:21:09,476 --> 00:21:11,236 Speaker 3: on it, and they're always sort of trying to put 496 00:21:11,236 --> 00:21:13,476 Speaker 3: it down, but they find that to be very very difficult. 497 00:21:13,516 --> 00:21:15,276 Speaker 3: And one of the things that you can do this 498 00:21:15,396 --> 00:21:17,596 Speaker 3: and I experimented with this, is you turn your phone 499 00:21:17,636 --> 00:21:20,156 Speaker 3: to gray scale, and so instead of appearing in color, 500 00:21:20,196 --> 00:21:21,396 Speaker 3: it appears in black. 501 00:21:21,236 --> 00:21:21,836 Speaker 2: White and gray. 502 00:21:21,956 --> 00:21:24,996 Speaker 3: And I will tell you it is much less fun 503 00:21:25,036 --> 00:21:27,756 Speaker 3: and it's much more just difficult to use a phone 504 00:21:27,756 --> 00:21:29,316 Speaker 3: that's in black, white and gray. It's just it's not 505 00:21:29,356 --> 00:21:31,756 Speaker 3: designed to be used that way, and so it's just 506 00:21:31,836 --> 00:21:34,236 Speaker 3: it's arduous, and it's just it's just like a lot 507 00:21:34,316 --> 00:21:37,956 Speaker 3: less compelling because it's like watching your grandparents old black 508 00:21:37,996 --> 00:21:40,716 Speaker 3: and white TV set. And so for some people this 509 00:21:40,796 --> 00:21:43,156 Speaker 3: is a really powerful tool because if they want to 510 00:21:43,196 --> 00:21:45,196 Speaker 3: make their phone less compelling, but they still need to 511 00:21:45,276 --> 00:21:47,036 Speaker 3: use their phone throughout the day, they can't just like 512 00:21:47,076 --> 00:21:47,956 Speaker 3: put it in a drawer. 513 00:21:48,556 --> 00:21:48,796 Speaker 1: You know. 514 00:21:48,996 --> 00:21:51,916 Speaker 3: I don't have phone notification sounds because I don't like 515 00:21:51,956 --> 00:21:54,956 Speaker 3: that constant interruption. I'm very jumpy, so it really it 516 00:21:54,996 --> 00:21:57,076 Speaker 3: really jumps me and I don't like having a train 517 00:21:57,116 --> 00:21:59,476 Speaker 3: of thought interrupted, and when I'm talking to somebody, I 518 00:21:59,596 --> 00:22:00,676 Speaker 3: get very distracted by it. 519 00:22:00,876 --> 00:22:02,196 Speaker 2: So I don't have notifications. 520 00:22:02,356 --> 00:22:04,236 Speaker 3: And some people are like, well, how can you not 521 00:22:04,276 --> 00:22:08,876 Speaker 3: have notifications? And I'm like, very easily just start them off. 522 00:22:09,156 --> 00:22:12,276 Speaker 3: And again it's not what everybody would choose. But realizing 523 00:22:12,636 --> 00:22:14,716 Speaker 3: you know that it is something that you can't choose 524 00:22:14,796 --> 00:22:18,116 Speaker 3: to address another thing, I realized I really don't like 525 00:22:18,156 --> 00:22:20,396 Speaker 3: noisy restaurants, and I'm not alone. This is like the 526 00:22:20,556 --> 00:22:23,036 Speaker 3: one of the number one complaints about restaurants are too noisy. 527 00:22:23,116 --> 00:22:25,596 Speaker 3: And now I just I really will say, like I 528 00:22:25,636 --> 00:22:27,836 Speaker 3: don't want to go to that restaurant ever again. I 529 00:22:27,916 --> 00:22:29,716 Speaker 3: like the food was good, but it's too loud. I 530 00:22:29,756 --> 00:22:31,876 Speaker 3: don't want to go there. And so instead of just 531 00:22:31,916 --> 00:22:35,276 Speaker 3: being like, oh, well, if you like this place, we'll go, 532 00:22:35,516 --> 00:22:37,756 Speaker 3: I can say that's not a place that I like 533 00:22:38,076 --> 00:22:39,636 Speaker 3: and shape my decisions. 534 00:22:40,116 --> 00:22:42,836 Speaker 1: Of course, Gretchen's new relationship with sound didn't end with 535 00:22:42,876 --> 00:22:46,236 Speaker 1: her avoiding harsh and unpleasant noises. She set out to 536 00:22:46,236 --> 00:22:48,836 Speaker 1: hear things in a totally new way. She committed to 537 00:22:48,916 --> 00:22:53,236 Speaker 1: listening purposefully to our surroundings, to music, and most importantly, 538 00:22:53,396 --> 00:22:55,836 Speaker 1: to the people she loved. Well hear how all that 539 00:22:55,876 --> 00:22:58,236 Speaker 1: went when the Happiness Lab returns in a moment. 540 00:23:08,156 --> 00:23:13,756 Speaker 3: Music is this universal human custom, It's in all human cultures. 541 00:23:14,036 --> 00:23:18,556 Speaker 1: It's ancient technology has revolutionized our relationship with music. Were 542 00:23:18,556 --> 00:23:20,956 Speaker 1: the first generation of humans to be able to access 543 00:23:21,036 --> 00:23:24,156 Speaker 1: virtually any song ever composed and listen to it anywhere 544 00:23:24,196 --> 00:23:26,596 Speaker 1: we want, in our cars, on the bus, or even 545 00:23:26,636 --> 00:23:27,236 Speaker 1: while we jog. 546 00:23:27,676 --> 00:23:29,836 Speaker 3: There's a lot of debate about why we all do 547 00:23:30,036 --> 00:23:32,276 Speaker 3: appreciate music. There's a lot of theories about it because 548 00:23:32,316 --> 00:23:34,196 Speaker 3: it's not evolutionarily necessary. 549 00:23:34,356 --> 00:23:36,996 Speaker 1: But until she started on her new quest, Podcaster and 550 00:23:36,996 --> 00:23:40,796 Speaker 1: Happiness expert Gretchen Rubin felt her listening habits were embarrassingly 551 00:23:40,796 --> 00:23:42,596 Speaker 1: out of step with the rest of humankind. 552 00:23:42,876 --> 00:23:45,596 Speaker 3: I always felt bad about my relationship with music because 553 00:23:45,596 --> 00:23:48,316 Speaker 3: I felt like I didn't really appreciate it the way 554 00:23:48,396 --> 00:23:50,516 Speaker 3: other people did. I saw people around me who like 555 00:23:50,636 --> 00:23:52,916 Speaker 3: listen to music all the time. They went to concerts, 556 00:23:53,116 --> 00:23:56,756 Speaker 3: they liked finding new kinds of music, new artists, they 557 00:23:56,876 --> 00:23:59,636 Speaker 3: like to talk about it, and I was like, Eh, 558 00:23:59,876 --> 00:24:02,436 Speaker 3: not really likes so into music, And it always felt 559 00:24:02,476 --> 00:24:05,716 Speaker 3: like a flaw or a limitation and being who I am. 560 00:24:05,716 --> 00:24:07,916 Speaker 3: I always thought, Wow, if I just learned more about it, 561 00:24:07,956 --> 00:24:09,716 Speaker 3: and if I took a class I learned to play 562 00:24:09,716 --> 00:24:12,956 Speaker 3: the uku lelely, or I really applied myself, I could 563 00:24:13,076 --> 00:24:13,996 Speaker 3: learn to love music. 564 00:24:14,156 --> 00:24:14,996 Speaker 2: But I never felt like. 565 00:24:14,956 --> 00:24:17,556 Speaker 3: Doing that right because I wanted to spend time doing 566 00:24:17,596 --> 00:24:20,356 Speaker 3: the things I already liked. But then, when I was 567 00:24:20,396 --> 00:24:23,036 Speaker 3: thinking about this, I sort of set off handedly to 568 00:24:23,756 --> 00:24:28,556 Speaker 3: my producer of my podcast, who's a really really huge 569 00:24:28,716 --> 00:24:31,076 Speaker 3: music person. I said to him, well, you know, I'm 570 00:24:31,076 --> 00:24:32,756 Speaker 3: just not that into music, and he said, oh, I 571 00:24:32,756 --> 00:24:34,756 Speaker 3: think you are into music, but just in your own way. 572 00:24:35,156 --> 00:24:38,556 Speaker 3: And this was a huge epiphany for me and in 573 00:24:38,596 --> 00:24:42,156 Speaker 3: all my work, all I say is there's no magic, 574 00:24:42,196 --> 00:24:43,316 Speaker 3: one size fits all solution. 575 00:24:43,476 --> 00:24:45,156 Speaker 2: What works for me may not work for you. So 576 00:24:45,476 --> 00:24:46,316 Speaker 2: I deeply knew that. 577 00:24:46,356 --> 00:24:49,436 Speaker 3: But even here again I had this spot that I 578 00:24:49,476 --> 00:24:52,356 Speaker 3: was overlooking where I thought, well, there's just something wrong 579 00:24:52,516 --> 00:24:55,356 Speaker 3: with my approach, instead of saying, well, how am I 580 00:24:55,436 --> 00:24:58,636 Speaker 3: different from other people? Or maybe I'm not as different 581 00:24:58,636 --> 00:25:00,836 Speaker 3: from everyone. Maybe there are other people like me, but 582 00:25:00,876 --> 00:25:04,076 Speaker 3: we just sort of haven't seen ourselves as kind of 583 00:25:04,116 --> 00:25:05,916 Speaker 3: a different way, an alternative way. 584 00:25:06,356 --> 00:25:08,836 Speaker 2: And I realized, like I really like a song. 585 00:25:09,516 --> 00:25:11,756 Speaker 3: Some people like music like they want to listen to 586 00:25:11,876 --> 00:25:13,756 Speaker 3: music all day, they want to listen to new music, 587 00:25:13,796 --> 00:25:15,916 Speaker 3: they want to listen to country music. And I like 588 00:25:16,516 --> 00:25:19,636 Speaker 3: the one song and I will love that song and 589 00:25:19,676 --> 00:25:21,796 Speaker 3: I will have a deep emotional response to that song. 590 00:25:21,876 --> 00:25:23,876 Speaker 3: And I love it when I find a new song 591 00:25:23,956 --> 00:25:27,036 Speaker 3: that I love, but I just want the one song, 592 00:25:27,116 --> 00:25:29,356 Speaker 3: which that explains like why I don't. 593 00:25:29,116 --> 00:25:29,996 Speaker 2: Go to concerts. 594 00:25:30,116 --> 00:25:31,756 Speaker 3: Why would I go to a concert when I just 595 00:25:31,756 --> 00:25:34,596 Speaker 3: want to hear the one song? And it was just 596 00:25:34,756 --> 00:25:37,156 Speaker 3: it was it opened up this whole new way for 597 00:25:37,236 --> 00:25:39,516 Speaker 3: me to think about how I could engage with my 598 00:25:39,636 --> 00:25:41,716 Speaker 3: sense of hearing in a way that I love because 599 00:25:41,756 --> 00:25:44,356 Speaker 3: instead of trying to jam myself into this model of 600 00:25:44,356 --> 00:25:47,196 Speaker 3: what I thought was the right way, I accepted myself 601 00:25:47,236 --> 00:25:49,356 Speaker 3: to say, well, this is my way. How can I 602 00:25:49,556 --> 00:25:52,316 Speaker 3: lean into that? It's happened in my way of loving music? 603 00:25:52,356 --> 00:25:54,956 Speaker 3: And so that was a huge boon for me. It 604 00:25:55,036 --> 00:25:58,436 Speaker 3: was like a whole new joy that I had that 605 00:25:58,476 --> 00:26:02,356 Speaker 3: I could have access to, which in a way and 606 00:26:02,476 --> 00:26:04,836 Speaker 3: before I always felt sort of discouraged about. 607 00:26:04,916 --> 00:26:07,476 Speaker 1: And that epiphany also led you to really be Gretchen 608 00:26:07,556 --> 00:26:09,556 Speaker 1: through another practice that you came up with, which is 609 00:26:09,556 --> 00:26:12,156 Speaker 1: this idea of the audio apothecary. You know what what 610 00:26:12,276 --> 00:26:14,476 Speaker 1: is that? And what was in your audio apothecary? 611 00:26:14,796 --> 00:26:17,756 Speaker 3: Well, as you know, there's so much research about how 612 00:26:18,156 --> 00:26:21,116 Speaker 3: quick upbeat song is one of the quickest ways that 613 00:26:21,156 --> 00:26:23,916 Speaker 3: we can intervene in our mood. You know, it helps 614 00:26:23,956 --> 00:26:25,916 Speaker 3: us deal with pain, it helps us. 615 00:26:25,836 --> 00:26:28,556 Speaker 2: Get energy, it makes workouts seem easier. 616 00:26:28,596 --> 00:26:29,796 Speaker 3: This is why you know you go to the gym 617 00:26:29,796 --> 00:26:33,316 Speaker 3: and always playing music. And so I knew this, but 618 00:26:33,436 --> 00:26:35,516 Speaker 3: I realized when I thought about the songs that I love, 619 00:26:35,556 --> 00:26:37,076 Speaker 3: because now that I knew I was a song lover, 620 00:26:37,116 --> 00:26:38,876 Speaker 3: I thought, well, what are what kind of mood do 621 00:26:38,956 --> 00:26:40,676 Speaker 3: most of the songs that I love put me in, 622 00:26:40,996 --> 00:26:44,876 Speaker 3: and most of them are kind of like melancholy, reflective 623 00:26:45,036 --> 00:26:47,156 Speaker 3: songs that put me in sort of kind of a 624 00:26:47,236 --> 00:26:52,116 Speaker 3: meditative state and maybe a little bit not sad, but 625 00:26:52,276 --> 00:26:55,476 Speaker 3: you know, bittersweet. And then I thought, but sometimes you 626 00:26:55,596 --> 00:26:58,116 Speaker 3: just want to give yourself a lift. You just want 627 00:26:58,156 --> 00:27:00,436 Speaker 3: to give your you know, give yourself a boost of 628 00:27:00,556 --> 00:27:02,156 Speaker 3: energy and cheer. And so I thought, Okay, I'm going 629 00:27:02,196 --> 00:27:04,716 Speaker 3: to make a list of those songs so that when 630 00:27:04,716 --> 00:27:06,916 Speaker 3: I can really intervene in my mood and when I 631 00:27:06,956 --> 00:27:08,556 Speaker 3: feel like I do need a quick lift or a 632 00:27:08,636 --> 00:27:11,556 Speaker 3: quick bo of energy, I can use my audio apothecary 633 00:27:11,596 --> 00:27:13,716 Speaker 3: for that. Not that I don't love those other songs, 634 00:27:13,756 --> 00:27:15,836 Speaker 3: but this is when I want to evoke a very 635 00:27:15,876 --> 00:27:16,916 Speaker 3: specific mood. 636 00:27:17,636 --> 00:27:19,116 Speaker 2: So I made my own playlist. 637 00:27:19,636 --> 00:27:21,756 Speaker 1: And this gets to, I think another benefit that you 638 00:27:21,796 --> 00:27:24,356 Speaker 1: realize by paying attention to your senses, right, which is 639 00:27:24,356 --> 00:27:28,436 Speaker 1: that we can really use sensory experiences for emotion regulation. Yes, right, 640 00:27:28,636 --> 00:27:31,036 Speaker 1: when I think in my own personal life, i'm dragging, 641 00:27:31,276 --> 00:27:32,796 Speaker 1: like you know, I'm feeling a look like a low 642 00:27:32,876 --> 00:27:36,036 Speaker 1: energy day. My instinct, you know, unlike you and your 643 00:27:36,156 --> 00:27:38,516 Speaker 1: kind of you know, sugar care, fitness. Like, my instinct 644 00:27:38,556 --> 00:27:41,036 Speaker 1: is to like turn to something that's often really unhealthy 645 00:27:41,116 --> 00:27:42,636 Speaker 1: to get my energy in, right, Like I'm going to 646 00:27:42,716 --> 00:27:45,756 Speaker 1: grab a cupcake or some like really caffeinated latte or 647 00:27:45,796 --> 00:27:48,516 Speaker 1: something like that. But you realize that sometimes these quick 648 00:27:48,556 --> 00:27:51,316 Speaker 1: sensory hits can play that emotion regulation role in a 649 00:27:51,356 --> 00:27:52,916 Speaker 1: way that's sometimes even healthier too. 650 00:27:53,796 --> 00:27:55,956 Speaker 3: Absolutely, And this is one of the kind of hacks 651 00:27:55,956 --> 00:27:58,356 Speaker 3: that I stumbled upon which I hadn't been expecting, which 652 00:27:58,396 --> 00:27:59,876 Speaker 3: is I think a lot of times when we want 653 00:27:59,916 --> 00:28:01,436 Speaker 3: to get a boost, like we do, we want to 654 00:28:01,516 --> 00:28:03,636 Speaker 3: kind of jolt ourselves to our senses. And as you say, 655 00:28:03,756 --> 00:28:07,556 Speaker 3: eating something or is often kind of the most obvious 656 00:28:07,596 --> 00:28:10,156 Speaker 3: thing to do, most familiar thing to do. But what 657 00:28:10,236 --> 00:28:14,276 Speaker 3: I found is that any kind of intense sensory experience 658 00:28:14,556 --> 00:28:16,996 Speaker 3: tended to give me that lift and that energy and 659 00:28:17,076 --> 00:28:19,676 Speaker 3: kind of that feeling of like shaking yourself awake. That 660 00:28:19,796 --> 00:28:21,676 Speaker 3: is often what you want sort of at three o'clock 661 00:28:21,676 --> 00:28:24,356 Speaker 3: in the afternoon when you're dragging, like taking a big 662 00:28:24,396 --> 00:28:27,916 Speaker 3: whiff of something like greatefruit or fresh towels just kind 663 00:28:27,916 --> 00:28:31,036 Speaker 3: of like overwhelming a sense or like really rubbing my 664 00:28:31,196 --> 00:28:35,676 Speaker 3: fingers over like a velvety pillow and really feeling that, 665 00:28:36,236 --> 00:28:39,316 Speaker 3: or you know, even something rough like wicker, you know 666 00:28:39,396 --> 00:28:41,236 Speaker 3: where you feel all those bumps and it's sort of 667 00:28:41,276 --> 00:28:44,036 Speaker 3: smooth and it's it's just it's there's something really engaging 668 00:28:44,076 --> 00:28:47,396 Speaker 3: about that that kind of served the same purpose. So 669 00:28:47,476 --> 00:28:49,756 Speaker 3: I think that for people who are trying to maybe 670 00:28:49,836 --> 00:28:53,836 Speaker 3: redirect there what they're doing to give them some themselves 671 00:28:53,876 --> 00:28:55,916 Speaker 3: that little boost, because I think you do need a boost. 672 00:28:55,916 --> 00:28:57,796 Speaker 3: There's time where like cell phones that need to get 673 00:28:57,796 --> 00:28:59,516 Speaker 3: plugged back into the wall, Like you need to give 674 00:28:59,516 --> 00:29:01,676 Speaker 3: yourself a boost, And so I think you want to have, 675 00:29:02,196 --> 00:29:04,956 Speaker 3: you know, these sort of healthy treats that you can 676 00:29:04,996 --> 00:29:07,676 Speaker 3: give yourself. And I think some people think of treats 677 00:29:07,676 --> 00:29:09,556 Speaker 3: as being something that they would eat, but you could 678 00:29:09,556 --> 00:29:11,556 Speaker 3: actually tap into all your senses. Or I know, I 679 00:29:11,596 --> 00:29:14,916 Speaker 3: know somebody who loves music, loves loves loves music, loves 680 00:29:14,956 --> 00:29:17,156 Speaker 3: new music, and so that's his treat is he'll like 681 00:29:17,236 --> 00:29:20,836 Speaker 3: let himself listen to a new song, and that does 682 00:29:20,876 --> 00:29:21,756 Speaker 3: the same thing for him. 683 00:29:21,836 --> 00:29:22,756 Speaker 2: Wouldn't work for me. 684 00:29:22,876 --> 00:29:25,036 Speaker 3: Because, like I say, I don't want to listen to 685 00:29:25,036 --> 00:29:27,236 Speaker 3: a new song. I like the songs I already like 686 00:29:27,356 --> 00:29:29,876 Speaker 3: but for him that was sort of an exciting adventure 687 00:29:29,996 --> 00:29:32,676 Speaker 3: and overwhelmed his senses in a very pleasant way. 688 00:29:32,956 --> 00:29:35,076 Speaker 1: And so we can use hearing in our other senses 689 00:29:35,116 --> 00:29:37,316 Speaker 1: to kind of do this emotion regulation, whether it's kind 690 00:29:37,356 --> 00:29:39,476 Speaker 1: of like you know, moving our energy up a little bit, 691 00:29:39,556 --> 00:29:41,476 Speaker 1: or putting ourselves in a good move, even maybe being 692 00:29:41,516 --> 00:29:44,636 Speaker 1: contemplative like the kinds of songs. Yeah, you tend to 693 00:29:44,676 --> 00:29:49,236 Speaker 1: gravitate towards but you also had this realization, particularly for hearing, 694 00:29:49,316 --> 00:29:51,516 Speaker 1: that you know, yeah, we can do all this stuff, 695 00:29:51,596 --> 00:29:54,516 Speaker 1: but like many happiness practices, it actually takes a little 696 00:29:54,516 --> 00:29:56,476 Speaker 1: bit of work. And I think this can be something 697 00:29:56,476 --> 00:29:59,756 Speaker 1: that's particularly surprising with listening, where it's just like, you know, 698 00:29:59,796 --> 00:30:02,356 Speaker 1: we just hear sounds in the background. It happens. But 699 00:30:02,436 --> 00:30:05,636 Speaker 1: you started to realize that listening well, actually takes a 700 00:30:05,636 --> 00:30:08,036 Speaker 1: little bit of work. You talk about this realization and 701 00:30:08,116 --> 00:30:09,476 Speaker 1: kind of how you tried to put more of this 702 00:30:09,556 --> 00:30:10,636 Speaker 1: work into practice. 703 00:30:10,916 --> 00:30:16,236 Speaker 3: Absolutely listening is arduous, and I noticed and I thought, 704 00:30:16,276 --> 00:30:18,436 Speaker 3: oh my gosh, maybe I'm the first person to realize 705 00:30:18,436 --> 00:30:21,436 Speaker 3: that the word listen is just the word silent with 706 00:30:21,476 --> 00:30:23,516 Speaker 3: the letters rearranged. Turns out I'm not the first one 707 00:30:23,556 --> 00:30:26,236 Speaker 3: to notice that, unfortunately, but no, and I realized that 708 00:30:26,356 --> 00:30:28,676 Speaker 3: I wanted to do a better job of listening, and 709 00:30:28,756 --> 00:30:31,476 Speaker 3: so I wrote, and but I need to crystallize my ideas. 710 00:30:31,556 --> 00:30:33,916 Speaker 3: I often will write a manifesto or something like that, 711 00:30:33,996 --> 00:30:36,276 Speaker 3: and so I wrote a manifesto for listening. That was 712 00:30:36,316 --> 00:30:38,996 Speaker 3: all the things that I wanted to remember about how 713 00:30:38,996 --> 00:30:41,236 Speaker 3: to listen. And that was everything from like my posture, 714 00:30:41,396 --> 00:30:43,276 Speaker 3: like turn to face the person, you know, so my 715 00:30:43,316 --> 00:30:46,196 Speaker 3: shoulders are square with their shoulders, put down my book 716 00:30:46,276 --> 00:30:48,396 Speaker 3: or my phone, you know, very obviously, be in an 717 00:30:48,436 --> 00:30:50,636 Speaker 3: attentive posture, and then listen. 718 00:30:50,756 --> 00:30:52,516 Speaker 2: And you know, there were things that for me were 719 00:30:52,556 --> 00:30:53,116 Speaker 2: really hard. 720 00:30:53,196 --> 00:30:59,076 Speaker 3: One was I realized that, like unconsciously, almost before I 721 00:30:59,636 --> 00:31:01,836 Speaker 3: know that I'm doing it, I will often redirect a 722 00:31:01,876 --> 00:31:05,916 Speaker 3: conversation away from something where it feels very vulnerable. And 723 00:31:06,156 --> 00:31:07,956 Speaker 3: I've really tried to do a better job of that. 724 00:31:08,076 --> 00:31:09,356 Speaker 3: I mean to the point where some of I have 725 00:31:09,356 --> 00:31:11,636 Speaker 3: to go back to somebody and say, I feel like 726 00:31:12,036 --> 00:31:15,076 Speaker 3: you were trying to talk about something and I interrupted 727 00:31:15,076 --> 00:31:15,436 Speaker 3: and read. 728 00:31:15,316 --> 00:31:17,676 Speaker 2: Directed the conversation. Let's go back. 729 00:31:18,036 --> 00:31:21,116 Speaker 3: I'm trying to, you know, get there faster, and just 730 00:31:21,156 --> 00:31:23,916 Speaker 3: being aware of that as I'm listening, you know, don't 731 00:31:24,076 --> 00:31:27,276 Speaker 3: try to steer it away from something that feels vulnerable. 732 00:31:27,836 --> 00:31:30,276 Speaker 3: And another thing is I realized that another kind of 733 00:31:30,276 --> 00:31:32,956 Speaker 3: coping mechanism I have is because I love to read, 734 00:31:32,996 --> 00:31:34,676 Speaker 3: and I have so many books that I think are like, 735 00:31:34,796 --> 00:31:38,876 Speaker 3: so so so helpful that anytime anybody brings something up, 736 00:31:38,876 --> 00:31:40,756 Speaker 3: I'm often like, that reminds me of this book, and 737 00:31:40,796 --> 00:31:42,436 Speaker 3: you should get this book and let me email you 738 00:31:42,516 --> 00:31:44,516 Speaker 3: the link, and you know, and you know, I can't 739 00:31:44,516 --> 00:31:46,716 Speaker 3: be My sister calls me a happiness bully, because I 740 00:31:46,716 --> 00:31:49,836 Speaker 3: can get pretty insistent if I think I have something 741 00:31:49,876 --> 00:31:52,156 Speaker 3: to suggest that I think would make you happier. And 742 00:31:52,236 --> 00:31:55,036 Speaker 3: I realize, like, yes, I think that this is really 743 00:31:55,076 --> 00:31:57,956 Speaker 3: helpful and valuable, but that is not what the person 744 00:31:58,036 --> 00:32:00,956 Speaker 3: is asking for at this moment. Like hold that back 745 00:32:01,036 --> 00:32:03,756 Speaker 3: and maybe offer that later if they want it. But 746 00:32:03,876 --> 00:32:06,756 Speaker 3: in the moment, rather than getting distracted by like this 747 00:32:06,956 --> 00:32:10,116 Speaker 3: reading list that I'm suggesting, I need to like listen 748 00:32:10,436 --> 00:32:13,436 Speaker 3: and respond to what the person's saying. You know, I 749 00:32:13,476 --> 00:32:17,796 Speaker 3: think these are mechanisms for kind of handling emotion. So 750 00:32:17,876 --> 00:32:20,396 Speaker 3: I'm trying to listen better so that I can really 751 00:32:20,916 --> 00:32:23,636 Speaker 3: be present in hearing what a person is trying to tell. 752 00:32:23,436 --> 00:32:26,196 Speaker 1: Me, and that active listening better also led to I think, 753 00:32:26,316 --> 00:32:29,996 Speaker 1: really important new social connections for you, even within your family. Right, 754 00:32:30,036 --> 00:32:32,316 Speaker 1: I know, just as a parent, this active listening sort 755 00:32:32,316 --> 00:32:34,956 Speaker 1: of transformed for you as you engage with this practice more. 756 00:32:35,196 --> 00:32:37,996 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean with my daughters and my husband too. 757 00:32:38,476 --> 00:32:41,356 Speaker 3: You just realize that instead of constantly trying to figure out, 758 00:32:41,356 --> 00:32:42,356 Speaker 3: well what am I going to say and how am 759 00:32:42,396 --> 00:32:43,716 Speaker 3: I going to respond and what's my advice? 760 00:32:43,756 --> 00:32:44,756 Speaker 2: I can just listen. 761 00:32:45,196 --> 00:32:48,196 Speaker 3: And I realized, especially with my younger daughter, she will 762 00:32:48,236 --> 00:32:50,956 Speaker 3: talk herself out of a bad mood. She will talk 763 00:32:51,036 --> 00:32:54,356 Speaker 3: herself into a solution if I just stay with her 764 00:32:54,476 --> 00:32:58,316 Speaker 3: and let her keep talking and let silence fall and 765 00:32:58,396 --> 00:33:01,116 Speaker 3: let her keep talking. And in fact, research shows that 766 00:33:01,316 --> 00:33:04,596 Speaker 3: we do generate better solutions and answers when we have, 767 00:33:04,876 --> 00:33:06,556 Speaker 3: you know, a listener who's. 768 00:33:06,276 --> 00:33:07,156 Speaker 2: Attending to us. 769 00:33:07,236 --> 00:33:09,796 Speaker 3: And so rather than thinking well what am I going 770 00:33:09,876 --> 00:33:11,676 Speaker 3: to say, it's more about well how am I going 771 00:33:11,756 --> 00:33:14,876 Speaker 3: to listen? And that proved to be much more effective. 772 00:33:15,396 --> 00:33:17,676 Speaker 3: But it's not, as you said earlier, it's not effortless. 773 00:33:17,716 --> 00:33:20,476 Speaker 3: It's not like you're just sitting there. What's that whole 774 00:33:20,476 --> 00:33:22,116 Speaker 3: thing don't just do something. 775 00:33:22,236 --> 00:33:22,676 Speaker 2: Sit there. 776 00:33:23,596 --> 00:33:25,956 Speaker 3: It's kind of that, so I think it's it's sometimes 777 00:33:25,956 --> 00:33:28,556 Speaker 3: it's hard. It's hard to just say like wow, that 778 00:33:28,716 --> 00:33:31,516 Speaker 3: sound that sounds really hard, or like wow, it's not 779 00:33:31,636 --> 00:33:33,036 Speaker 3: you must have been it sounds like you must have 780 00:33:33,036 --> 00:33:36,956 Speaker 3: been really frustrated, and just not rush in with solutions 781 00:33:37,076 --> 00:33:38,956 Speaker 3: or questions and just listen. 782 00:33:39,076 --> 00:33:40,956 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you're not the only family member who's 783 00:33:40,956 --> 00:33:43,036 Speaker 1: a happiness bully. I feel like I have to have 784 00:33:43,156 --> 00:33:48,516 Speaker 1: to work on this myself. Yes, so that's how you 785 00:33:48,556 --> 00:33:51,196 Speaker 1: can get more intentional about the audio and visual domain. 786 00:33:51,756 --> 00:33:54,676 Speaker 1: But there's still so much more to embracing all five senses. 787 00:33:55,356 --> 00:33:58,116 Speaker 1: Gretchen and I still have to talk smell, it's amazing 788 00:33:58,156 --> 00:34:00,796 Speaker 1: that garbage days smells so bad, like why does it 789 00:34:00,836 --> 00:34:04,396 Speaker 1: smell so bad? And taste your e sides, creak, salad, 790 00:34:04,596 --> 00:34:07,316 Speaker 1: the chunks of cheese like, and of course touch. 791 00:34:07,476 --> 00:34:09,596 Speaker 3: I always thought of skin as like packed and jing, 792 00:34:09,596 --> 00:34:11,836 Speaker 3: but you know that's where we get our sensations. 793 00:34:12,236 --> 00:34:14,276 Speaker 1: So be sure to come back for part two of 794 00:34:14,316 --> 00:34:18,156 Speaker 1: our journey into better savoring through your senses next time 795 00:34:18,356 --> 00:34:21,156 Speaker 1: on the Happiness Lab with me Doctor Laurie Santos