WEBVTT - #369 Jason Flom with Kwame Ajamu 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:05.520 M On May nineteenth, nineteen seventy five, a money owner 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:08.840 salesman named Harold Frank was leaving a Cleveland, Ohio convenience 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:12.119 store when two men demanded his briefcase. When he resisted, 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:14.680 they clubbed him in the head with a pipe, threw 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:17.919 acid in his face, and fatally shot him twice in 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:22.119 the chest. The store's co owner, Anne Robinson, saw the 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:24.880 whole thing go down, and she suffered a bullet wound 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:27.560 before the men sped off in a green car with 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:31.080 four hundred twenty five dollars. Then a busload of school 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:33.880 children were dropped off on the corner, and one local boy, 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:36.560 Eddie Vernon, ragged to his friends that he had seen 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:39.280 the murder and knew who did it, his neighbors Ricky 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:43.280 Jackson and the Brethren brothers Wileye and Ronnie. The three 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:47.280 young men were arrested and young Eddie Vernon identified them. 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:50.920 At each one of their trials, all three jurys found 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:55.200 Eddie Vernon more credible than the wounded store owner Anne Robinson. 0:00:55.600 --> 0:01:12.000 But this is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction. 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:17.440 This case is it's like a it's like a glaring 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:21.600 example of everything that can go wrong and that does 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:25.800 go wrong in our criminal legal system. But before I 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:28.520 get off on a tangent here, because this case makes 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:30.959 me so angry, I'm going to introduce our guests we 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:34.880 have with us today. The man himself, Kwame a Jammu, 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:40.120 formerly known as Ronnie Bridgeman. Kwame served decades in prison 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:42.800 for a crime he had nothing to do with, but 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:46.280 he's here today, standing strong. Kwame. We're very honored to 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:47.440 have you here on the show today. 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:49.280 Thank you. I'm glad to be here. 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:52.440 And with him, there is a man named Terry Gilbert. 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:57.200 Terry is a renowned criminal defense and civil rights attorney 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:00.960 as well as a community activist, and importantly he's a 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:07.640 death penalty abolitionist. And I am absolutely thrilled and honored 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:09.919 to have you here as well. Terry, thanks for joining us. 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:11.880 Thanks Jason, I appreciate it. 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:14.640 Okay, So, Kwame, I'm going to start with you. You 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:17.760 were born Ronnie Bridgeman and grew up with your brother Wiley, 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:20.560 as well as your childhood friend and later co defendant, 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.280 Ricky Jackson, who's been on the show before. We'll have 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:26.040 his episode linked in the buyout. But anyway, I've invited 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:29.760 you here to give your own unique side of this story. 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:32.679 Let's go back to the beginning. You all grew up 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:35.600 on the same block, same street, right we did. 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:37.720 Yeah, three holes is apart. 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:39.160 In Kuyahoga County, right. 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:40.280 Yeah, Kyhoga County. 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:42.120 And people that listen to the show have heard so 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:46.400 many cases from Kuyahoga County because it's arguably the epicenter 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:50.280 of the whole wrongful conviction world, which is there's a 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:53.760 lot of competition for that awful distinction. But tell us 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:56.760 about Kyahoga County. Where is it? What's it like? 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:02.120 So? Kuyahoga County is more effects known as Cleveland, Ohio, 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:07.440 and that is the city within the jurishdiction of Cuyahoga County. Cleveland, 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:11.200 Ohio is a cesspool, if you will. We have three 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:14.440 different sides to it. All of those sides are policed 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:17.760 very heavily, as Kerry will let you know in a 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:20.320 few when you talk. But I was born in nineteen 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:26.040 fifty seven, so my youth in Cleveland was through two riots, 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:31.480 sixty seven and sixty eight riots, all infused by the poor, 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:35.960 the disadvantaged, redlined people, people who had been segregated for 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:38.360 so long it just was tired of being poor. 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:42.840 The situation on the streets of Cleveland and the black 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:48.160 community were horrific in the sixties and the seventies as 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:53.200 it was across the country, and assassination of Martin Luther King, 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:57.080 Robbie Kennedy, they're so called riots that were happening in 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:00.440 that context. There was a war against the black community. 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:03.840 And we had a mayor in the city of Cleveland, 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:07.920 the first African American mayor in the country of a 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:13.560 major city, named Carl Stokes, who was elected during this period. 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:16.200 And the police unions were not very happy about a 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.680 black mayor who was attempting to come up with some 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:24.039 reforms that would deal with the issues that were happening 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:26.160 at the time in the black community. 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:28.640 But those reforms never. 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:32.839 Took hold because of the resistance of the establishment, the 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:35.000 police union, the political climate. 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:39.560 The Cleveland police force was indeed a faction to deal 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:43.120 with it that particular time. They were beyond corrupt, and 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:47.040 as history will show, they're still corrupt to this day. 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:48.760 And so I come up in that, you know, I 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:52.159 come up in the apthampa that actually because I was 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.800 seventeen years old in nineteen seventy five, when all of 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:56.120 this happened to me. 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.560 So you're still really a kid, You're a teenager, and 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:02.360 I'm sure where you had dreams and aspirations like every 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:04.400 other seventeen year old kid in the country. And I 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:07.520 know Ricky Jackson and your brother Wiley had already both 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:10.479 been through the military at this point. So what were 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:11.760 your plans for the future. 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:14.320 I tell people all the time that I wanted to 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:19.120 be a cop. Wow, I had big aspirations and how 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:23.080 do you say, ideologies of how police worked, And it 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:25.520 was either going to be a cop or a fireman. 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.600 And in the end, in nineteen seventy five, on that 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:32.240 terrible day May nineteenth, nineteen seventy five, and mister Harold 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:35.920 Franks entered our neighborhood there in fair Hill and Cedar 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:38.800 and lost both his liberty in his life. And I 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:42.320 became one of the suspects, and then one of the accused, 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:45.440 and then one who was sentencing convicted to die at 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.960 just seventeen years old, I had no understanding of how 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:52.280 these people who I supported as a child growing up 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:54.800 and who I wanted to emulate could do such a 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:55.320 thing to me. 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.800 And this particular crime fifty nine year old white guy 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.400 of Harold Franks, who was a money oral salesman, and 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:04.200 when he left the neighborhood grocery store on Fairhill Road, 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:08.560 he was confronted by two men demanding his briefcase. That's 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:11.440 two not three. When he resisted, they clubbed them in 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:14.040 the head with a pipe and splashed acid in his face. 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:16.320 One of the robbers then shot him twice in the 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:18.720 chest and fired a shot through the glass front door 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:22.520 of the store. Mister Franks obviously died, and fifty eight 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:24.920 year old Anne Robinson, who was a coalner the store, 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:27.840 was shot once in the neck but miraculously survived, and 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:31.560 the two robbers fled with the briefcase. They got away 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:34.640 with about four hundred and twenty five dollars. It's really 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:37.440 sad when you think of that. So life is so cheap. 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:39.760 In this case, four lives were so cheap. The two 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.360 robbers they got into a green car parked down the 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:46.719 street and escaped. Now I'm gonna ask a stupid question, quimet, 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:48.520 did any of you guys have a green car? 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:52.480 No, my brother did own a black and white plymous Slaberine. 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:55.719 They did find that green car, somebody had it and 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:58.400 everything in the yard all that nothing came of it. 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:01.599 And it sounds like a very organized type of a crime, 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:04.599 like maybe even a professional criminal who knew that this 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:07.400 money order guy was going to be there through acid 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:09.440 in his face. What would a seventeen year old kid 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:12.080 who wants to be a copy doing with acid and 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:14.880 I mean and a gun in this case, let us 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:17.880 not forget this case wasn't a complicated one. They had 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:22.560 the green car, they had suspects. They also had Missus Robinson, right, 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:27.160 didn't Missus Robinson know you guys, yeah right? So here 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:30.679 it is. She's just been shot and she's the only 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:33.600 one who actually saw the perpetrators. And we know I 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.360 would his identification is unreliable, but not when you know 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:41.240 the people, right, right, So think about it. So why 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:43.880 don't you fill the audience in on how these guys 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:48.360 became the sole focus of these people who ultimately framed 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:49.560 them for this crime. 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:53.960 In addition to the climate that existed at the time. Specifically, 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:58.040 what happened was a twelve year old boy named Eddie 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:01.800 Vernon who was on a bus coming home from school 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:06.280 at the time, and the shooting occurred. The bus was 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:11.520 in some proximity to the store down about a block away, 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:15.520 And when they got off the bus and they saw 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:19.560 the commotion after the shooting, they started talking and one 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:22.040 kid says, well, I bet you I know who did it, 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:27.440 and he referred to the nicknames of Ricky, Kwa Man 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:31.240 and Wileye. So that's stuck in this kid, Eddie Vernons 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:34.280 mine at twelve years old. Maybe he should tell the 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:38.240 cops who he thinks might have done this horror for crime. 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:41.840 Eddie Vernon, I've known him since he was a small kid. 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:44.319 My brother went to school one of his sisters, and 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.040 we knew the family. Plus he was a paperboy in 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:50.480 the neighborhood. Anyway, on that particular day, May nineteen, nineteen 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:54.719 seventy five, myself and Ricky Jackson was just down the 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:57.320 street at the other end of Bartot Street talking with 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:00.439 a guy by the name of Lynn Garrett and his girlfriend, 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.800 and we decided to walk around the corner to the store. Now, 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:06.160 mind you, the store that we decided to go to 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:09.679 is not the store in question of so, and the 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:14.199 way to the store we stopped at, unbelievably, Edwar Vernon's 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:18.320 house and his two sisters, Darlene and Susan, were sitting 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.320 on the porch upstairs, and we began to you know, 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.160 shoot the shit, talking to him, and a car pulls up. 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:27.520 Inside the car, of course as their father, Eddie, hisself, 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:29.960 and a young girl by the name of Rose Brown. 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:32.439 So they opened the window and tell us that hey, 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:35.480 it's a man up there at the store shot. So 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.079 boogey boogey boogie. We wait for the girls to come 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:40.000 down and we all go up to the store. Sure enough, 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:44.120 mister Frankens laying on the ground dead. Cops was everywhere right, 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:46.839 you know, asking people who had seen this, who had 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:49.839 seen that that anybody's seen it unbeknown to any of us. 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:52.400 Young aunt with Vernon, you know, raised his hand and 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:55.240 said I did I did you know, to which they 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:57.080 took him in immediately. 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:02.199 At this point, they were only looking for two assailants, 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:05.720 not three, so they took Edward down to the police 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:08.440 station without his parents to get a statement that was 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:11.960 more faithful to the crime scene. And remember, like Terry said, 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:15.200 Edward's pardon, this just started off as I bet you 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:16.400 I know who did it. 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:21.600 They went and started feeding him more details of the crime, 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:25.600 creating a narrative to the point when they pushed him 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:28.319 to say, well, these are the guys that you saw 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:32.840 commit this murder, which we know now is impossible because 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:36.360 other people on the bus we interviewed to show that 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:39.920 there was no way Eddie could have seen this from 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:44.240 that position. So they take the kid in he's twelve 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:48.199 years old, They scare him, they manipulate him to sign 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:52.000 a statement, and about a few days later they brought 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.280 him back and they wanted him to look at a lineup, 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:59.760 and he's told the police, well, I don't really know who, 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:02.000 if they did it or not, And one of the 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:06.440 detectives got upset and started pounding his fist into a 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:11.600 table and threatened Eddie that if he did not sign 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:15.360 the document pointing to these young men, that they would 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:19.360 arrest his parents. Of course, none of this was known 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:20.480 back then. 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:22.920 You know, later on we would find out that his 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.920 mother had Ovarian Canton was dying, and so you know, 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:28.959 you asked yourself, who would you choose, guys in the 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:31.959 neighborhood or your mother, you know. So he came out 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:35.440 of that interrogation room, and obviously he wanted to say 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:38.000 what he thought was his mother from being put in 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:41.240 the prison toward him, and so he went along with 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:43.160 the details that had been written in. 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:47.760 So May twenty fifth, nineteen seventy five. They've now heard 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:51.360 what they wanted to hear, or they've forced Edward to 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:54.720 say what they wanted to hear, and they're now ready 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:57.320 to take this to the next level and go arrest 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:01.760 kids who I believe they knew were innocent. They had 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:05.760 the green car, they had suspects. Had they even wanted 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:08.800 to do just a tiny bit of actual police work, 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:11.200 they probably would have landed on the two guys who 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:11.920 actually did this. 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:15.920 The whole investigation took about a week. There were other 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:21.240 suspects that were far more viable in terms of who 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:24.400 did this crime, suspects that were older, I think even 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.760 had a green car, and that had committed other similar 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:32.720 crimes that was not disclosed to the defense console before 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:33.400 the trial. 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:37.600 There were at least six other men who had been 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:42.400 simultaneously picked up, arrested, and put into Cuyahoga County jail. 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:46.280 But they ignored these other viable avenues and took the 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:49.360 easy route with a coerced twelve year old boy. And 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:52.360 at that point they were only looking for two assailants, 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:56.560 so their narrative only named Ricky and Wilie, but you 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:00.839 Kwame were soon written into the story after the night 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:03.800 that they scooped all three of you up again. This 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:05.800 was May twenty fifth, nineteen seventy five. The three of 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:07.719 you had been out that night together and Ricky was 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.120 sleeping over at your house when the cops busted his 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:13.200 door down, and when they didn't find Ricky, they dragged 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.040 his parents out onto the front lawn with guns to 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:17.000 their heads. 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:19.160 That's exactly what happened at my house. 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:19.439 You know. 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:23.280 I was sound asleep and I felt something hitting my foot. 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:26.400 I locked up, cops everywhere, guns pointed, But I didn't 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:28.760 think about myself, my safety and none of that, because 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:31.040 I knew that my mother was in the next room. 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:33.640 And my mother all of my life had suffered from 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:36.280 heart trouble, which is what she died from, a massive 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.520 heart attacked in nineteen ninety. But I just voted past 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:41.240 the cops and got into the room where my mother 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:43.360 was at There was more cops and guns, and I 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.240 let them have it. Man. I was saying everything to him, right, 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.240 so the guy snatched me up. I'll never forget, you know, 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:51.360 and he said, sorry, it's what you want to do 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:54.560 with this one, you know this one, and he said 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.000 take him on down. We'd figured out later they had 0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:01.200 arrested me for obstruction police. This and on the way 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:04.520 downtown was when they realized that I was seventeen. So 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:06.839 they had to divert going to the county and go 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:10.920 over to juvenile. And it was only after that they 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:12.080 wrote me into the story. 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:14.640 So, as the summer of seventy five was coming to 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:18.040 a close, You, Wiley, and Ricky were all tried separately. 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.440 He went in front of Judge John Angelata and the 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.320 chief prosecutor at that time, John T. Corrigan, had been 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:27.920 in office since nineteen fifty six and also presided over 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.960 the wrongful conviction of Tony Ipanovitch and god knows how 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:35.000 many others. But the trial prosecutor was Dominic del Baso. 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:36.720 So what did he present? 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.640 Basically, what we had is the three guys lived in 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:45.400 the neighborhood were young black men, no physical evidence, no 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:50.120 evidence other than that this twelve year old boy testified 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:52.000 and the jury believed him. 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:56.400 It's really madness when you think about they were relying 0:14:56.600 --> 0:15:00.800 on obvious lives. I mean, the kid contradicted himself. Vernon 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.280 originally told police he was on the bus coming home 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:05.720 from school when he saw the attack. Then later on 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:08.200 he testified that he had actually gotten off the bus 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.120 already when he saw the attack. That's pretty hard to 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:13.320 have both of those things be true. And then there 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.480 was a sixteen year old neighborhood girl parents myth. She 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:19.560 testified that she walked into the store just before the 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.880 attack and saw two men, not boys, two men outside 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:26.360 the store, and she went on to say that neither 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:29.640 of the two men were any of you three guys. 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:32.680 They were not Jackson, they were not the Bridgeman brothers. Also, 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:35.880 several of Eddie Vernon's classmates testified that he was on 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:38.960 the bus with them when they heard the gunshots, and 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.160 that none of them were able to see the robbers. 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:44.440 And the defense also presented witnesses who said that you 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:47.000 Klaume were elsewhere at the time to crime with your 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:50.160 brother and another friend, were wrapping up a basketball game. 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:53.840 And then there was Anne Robinson back to her, so 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:56.600 she testified she was shot in the neck by a 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.080 bullet that went through the store's front door, but she 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:01.800 was unable to entify the robbers even though she saw them, 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:03.760 and even though she knew you guys. 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:07.960 Well, she said, I know them boys backwards forwards running 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.800 away because they would come and work for me and 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.080 my husband in the store. She said, believe you me, 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:17.080 I wanted to get the person responsible for killing mister 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:19.800 Franks and shooting me in my neck. But it wasn't now, 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:22.400 you know, And that that says a whole lot, because 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:25.560 she could have been on that train, you know. Ultimately 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:29.360 her husband started paying it to the Edward Vernon thing. 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:32.480 But missus Robinson, the wife, heals fast to the fact 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:34.120 that now and kids didn't do that. 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:38.960 But it was the testimony of Eddie Vernon which carried 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:42.400 the day. The jury obviously thought, well, why would this 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:46.520 kid make it up? You know, And so that was 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:47.840 the ticket to death row. 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:52.200 So he would perfetuate this story not three but four 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:55.760 times because Wiley my brother got a retrial and went 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.680 back and they sunk him again and put him in 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:02.000 the exact same sale death row that they had originally 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:02.520 put him in. 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:06.800 So now we go to September twenty seventh, nineteen seventy five, 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:09.240 fatal day. Did you hold out any hope at this 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:11.800 point you had seen a lot already, but did you 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:13.600 have any did you think that they would still see 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:14.720 through all of this nonsense. 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:18.520 I gave up the ghosts. When the judge himself, he 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:23.760 was instructing the jury. Now listen, because Edward burning up 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:28.320 know how to spell certain words and can't differentiate east 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:31.960 from west doesn't mean he's a liar. Doesn't mean that 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:34.800 when he says that him and he pointed to me, 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:39.960 is guilty, you see. So in my mind, he had 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:44.040 already convinced that jury that I was fucking guilty, you know. 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:48.480 So when they came in, now I'm looked up. They 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:51.879 all looked down, you know. The women was holding their 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:55.200 little skirt tails and you know how to do. And 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:59.119 I say, okay, here we go, you know yeah, And 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:02.000 when I came back to the reality of what was 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:05.640 happening to me, I heard him say, until you are dead. 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:10.560 That's all I fucking heard until you I did. 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.520 This podcast is brought to you by Ohio Justice and 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:27.760 Policy Center, a nonprofit law firm that seeks justice for 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:31.200 people to directly impact it by Ohio's criminal legal system. 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:36.359 OJPC provides free legal services to currently and formally incarcerated people. 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:40.480 Through its Beyond Guilt Project, OJPC works to free, over 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:45.520 punish people who have rehabilitated themselves. Ojpc's Second Chance clinics 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:49.600 help individuals with criminal records remove barriers to employment and 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:53.800 house it. Ojpc's Human Rights and Prison Project represents people 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:56.840 who face denial of medical care. In its twenty five 0:18:56.920 --> 0:19:00.359 year history, OJPC has worked at the policy level and 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:04.040 won numerous victories in Ohio, including ending juvenile life with 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:07.639 that Parole and exempting seriously mentally ill people from the 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.400 death penalty. To learn more about Ohio Justice and Policy 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:15.119 Center and how you can support its mission, visit OHIOJPC 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:21.960 dot org. That's Ohio JPC dot org, Ohio Justice and 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.440 Policy Center. We don't write people off. 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.720 So that morning, you know, the ride as they call it, 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:35.879 they came in and got me and they give me 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:40.639 a one nine fifty three, something that is embreded in me. 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:44.880 I'll never forget. Once I actually got to death role, 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:48.960 it became one sale all day, every day. They stripped me, 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:52.920 oh man, storry, calling me girl, little sweetie, and all that, 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:55.920 making me bend over and spreading my butt cheeks. All 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:59.320 that stuff I never you know, know nothing about. But 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:03.760 here's one that I'll never forget either. Jason, Before we 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:05.720 go to my cell. We go to the end of 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:09.760 the rings and I got introduced IACSI saw the chair 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.480 this shot. They gonna be waiting on you. Boy, she 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:17.119 gonna rade you good well. 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:20.159 I mean, I mean, the idea that your mom lost 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:24.480 two of her babies that were kidnapped by the police 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:27.960 and then planned to be executed by the state is 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:31.640 as a type of pain that I don't think anybody 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:34.480 who's not experienced they could ever even begin to imagine, 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:37.200 and that that is just a tragedy on the tragedy. 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:39.800 But and here you were on death row down the 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:42.639 hall from your own brother, like you could. Were you 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:45.240 guys able to see each other or just hear each 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:46.879 other or how did that even work? 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:49.960 You know, everybody's hollering, screaming, so we could do that. 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:53.520 We passed notes and this that, but one hour out 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:57.040 of the twenty four hours that we weren't in the sale, 0:20:57.480 --> 0:20:59.600 and that hour, of course you got to go take 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:02.439 a shot and walk them down the range and you know, 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:05.439 pass messages for guys. So we got, you know, that 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:07.480 little time to see each other in passing on the 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:09.280 rains like that as well as. 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:14.720 Ricky and luckily, miraculously for you, Wiley, Ricky, and all 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:18.040 the other guys on Ohio death throughout. A critically important 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:21.399 nineteen seventy eight Supreme Court decision came along. 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:26.040 Right, So, this was that famous Sondra Lockett case where 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:30.600 she filed against the constitutionality of how everyone was sentenced 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:32.960 that particular time, that if you got premeditated murder, you 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:37.480 got sentenced to die. Every judge across the state was 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:41.240 using the same application she filed, and she won, and 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:45.200 that released everyone that had been previously sentenced to die. 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:48.920 Right. This case challenged what factors could be considered by 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:51.000 the judge of jury when weighing whether or not to 0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:55.120 impose the death penalty, and so what they found unconstitutional 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:59.680 In Layman's terms, the state had the ability to list 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:03.600 unl un limited reasons why the death penalty should be 0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:06.920 applied in your case, but there was a very small 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:10.320 number of mitigating factors that were allowed to be presented 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:11.160 by the defense. 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:16.040 The US Supreme Court struck down the Ohio death penalty 0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:20.240 law as they did in other jurisdictions, and then there 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:24.240 was a wave of new death penalty statues that came 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:27.679 in where there was more attention to how a jury 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:33.240