1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: So salitarianism and monopoly go in and don't make the 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: healthcare system any worse, don't jack up premiums on people 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: by seventy five percent, and. 4 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 2: Don't act lawlessly. 5 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 1: History tells us that when the people stand up, something 6 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: magical happens. 7 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 3: Well, I don't need to remind everybody that the government 8 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 3: is shut down, but we are not shut out from 9 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 3: getting a deeper understanding of what's going on in Washington, DC, 10 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 3: because we have one of the most prominent democratic voices, 11 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 3: someone who has been a fierce defender of democracy and 12 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 3: free speech, who is one of the leaders in the 13 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 3: resistance against Trump and trump Ism, that can unpack and 14 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 3: unveil what's going on with healthcare in this country, what's 15 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 3: going on in terms of negotiation with the government shut down, 16 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:44,919 Speaker 3: but also broad in the aperture to what's going on 17 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 3: in American cities with the increasing militarization with our National Guard, 18 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 3: and what's happening to the state of our democracy. This 19 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 3: is Gavin Newson. This is Senator Chris Murphy. Senator Murphy, 20 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 3: it's great that you took the time to be with 21 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 3: us today. I continue to make this point behind your 22 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 3: back anytime I'm asked, they said, who do you admire 23 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 3: out there in the Democratic Party? Who from your perspective, 24 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 3: particularly in Washington, TC stands out And every single time 25 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 3: first name comes out of my mouth is you, sir. 26 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 3: And so I'm grateful for this opportunity to check in 27 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 3: and check up on what's going on in this country, 28 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:35,199 Speaker 3: including just what happened as we're taping this. Just an 29 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 3: hour or so ago Pam Bondy, the Attorney General of 30 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 3: the United States, at an oversight hearing that sounded more 31 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 3: like cross examination coming from Pam Bondy doing op research 32 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 3: on Democratic senators. 33 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: So what was your reflection of that, Well, Governor, awesome 34 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: to be with you, man, The compliment is turned straight 35 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: back around. 36 00:01:57,800 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 2: What you're doing out in California is. 37 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: Absolutely a central People need to feel like we are powerful, 38 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: not powerless right now, and you're delivering people that sensation 39 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 1: that there's still things we can do to save our democracy. Yeah, 40 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: I mean I watched some clips of that hearing. You know, 41 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: she acts like, you know, somebody who works for a 42 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: guy who believes he's a king, right it, believes that 43 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: they're accountable to no one. She clearly showed zero deference 44 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: for the United States Congress and Senate. That's probably understandable 45 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: given her combative boss and how you know what she 46 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: wants folks out there making news and creating viral clips. 47 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: But you know, it just is representative of the way 48 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,519 Speaker 1: the entire administration operates. They're not bound by the law, 49 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: they're not bound by the Constitution. They don't believe they're 50 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: accountable to the people. They certainly don't believe they're accountable 51 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: to the Senate. And I think that's wearing thin on folks. 52 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: You know, eighty percent of Americans now say that we're 53 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 1: in the middle of a political crisis. More than fifty 54 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: percent of the country is worried about losing their right 55 00:02:58,880 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: to free. 56 00:02:59,240 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 2: Speech and the show. 57 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: So I don't think she does her boss any favors by, 58 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: you know, acting so childish representing the Department of Justice 59 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: in front of the United States Senate. I don't know 60 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: if you think differently. 61 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 3: It's interesting, and you know, I want to unpack that 62 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 3: because I think the point you're making is an important 63 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 3: point about how quote unquote unpopular so many of the positions, 64 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 3: not just the president's overall popularity itself, but a lot 65 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 3: of the positions he has been promoting, including members of 66 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 3: his own administration. But I wonder if just in the 67 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 3: administration of oversight, did you reflect on that and reflect 68 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 3: on the fact that Democrats may need to change their 69 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 3: tactics in terms of how they even begin to, you know, 70 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 3: prepare for subsequent oversight hearings. 71 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, these hearings are becoming jokes because she's 72 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: not even attempting to answer these questions. You know, when 73 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: we send basic oversight letters to these agencies to ask 74 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: questions about how they're spending money, they never ever respond. 75 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: And so yeah, I do think you need to understand 76 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: that right now, they perceive these hearings to be reality 77 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: TV shows, and you're, unfortunately, whether you like it or not, 78 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: going to have to approach the hearings in that way. 79 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: But I also think Governor, you know that we've got 80 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: to make clear that the oversight here, especially when it 81 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: comes to the illegality, is permanent, right because someday Democrats 82 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 1: are going to be back in charge of the House 83 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 1: and the Senate. Someday we're going to have the power 84 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: of subpoenas. Someday there's going to be people in the 85 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: Department of Justice who actually want to administer the law 86 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: on its face, and so I just think we're going 87 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: to need to say to these folks and save your records, 88 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: because if any of you have committed actual, real illegality, 89 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: you know you are ultimately going to have to be 90 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: held accountable for that, either by being hauled before Congress 91 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 1: and be forced to swim in and tell the truth 92 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: and be held accountable for perjury, or before a court 93 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: of laws. So the oversight is going to be much 94 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: more real and much more forceful when Democrats are back 95 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: in charge. 96 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 2: And we'll get to getting back in charge. 97 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 3: Talk a little bit about redistricting in twenty twenty six, 98 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 3: particularly as it relates to not just the Senate but 99 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 3: obviously the House. But first I want to sort of 100 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 3: paint the picture of where we are today where now 101 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 3: this government shut down. We haven't broken any records, but 102 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 3: were not necessarily break in any new ground in terms 103 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 3: of breakthroughs based upon at least what I'm reading and 104 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 3: understanding and hearing, as it relates to the prospects of 105 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 3: a deal, where you think things stand at this stage, 106 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 3: and how do you think we have positioned ourselves the 107 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 3: Democratic Party, and how do you think we get out 108 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 3: on the other side. 109 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think it's first of all important 110 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 1: to understand that Trump is rooting for a shutdown, right 111 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: because he does believe that he has these extraordinary powers. 112 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: He's come to believe that those powers get bigger in 113 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: a shutdown. That's not true. He also roots for chaos, 114 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: and the fact of the matter is there's more chaos 115 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: when the government is shut down. Cruelty is the point 116 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: to this administration, and things get crueler when head start 117 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 1: centers don't open and federal employees don't get their paycheck. 118 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: But what Democrats' priorities are here are pretty damn reasonable. 119 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 2: What are we asking for. 120 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: We're saying, listen, the healthcare system isn't fair and it's 121 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: a mess. We just don't want it to get worse 122 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: this fall, when premiums are scheduled to increase on people 123 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: who have Affordable Care Act plans by seventy one hundred percent. 124 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: So let's just make sure that those premium increases don't 125 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: go into effect. And then second, let's make sure that 126 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: if we write a budget that says you have to 127 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,359 Speaker 1: spend money in all fifty states, the president is actually 128 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: required to spend money in all fifty states instead of 129 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: not spending money in places like California, in New York 130 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: and Connecticut that are represented by Democrats and spending money 131 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 1: in states represented by Republicans. So I mean our asks 132 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: are pretty minimalist. Just don't make the healthcare system any worse, 133 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: don't jack up premiums on people by seventy five percent, 134 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: and don't act lawlessly. If we get those two things 135 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: included in this budget, then I think you're going to 136 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: see democratic votes, and I think increasingly the American publicers 137 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: are beginning to see that, you know, what we're asking 138 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: for is pretty damn popular and not terribly piggish. 139 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 3: And it seems to have been reflected in the president's 140 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 3: own comments, where it seemed at least politically attuned to 141 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 3: the popularity of healthcare and the imperative to actually figure 142 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 3: this out, suggesting that he's quote unquote a Republican but 143 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 3: likes healthcare and thinks he can quote unquote make a deal, 144 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 3: but doesn't seem to me there's any substantive conversations, or 145 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 3: are there substantive conversations being held? 146 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: There are not, and the clearest evidence of how unseerious 147 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: Republicans are about negotiating is the fact that they're not here, 148 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: so the House of Representatives is not in session. This 149 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: is the third week that they've been on kind of 150 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: an unscheduled recess. Part of that is that they don't 151 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: really want to negotiate away out of the shutdown. Part 152 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: of that we can talk about it is that they're 153 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: about to vote on the Epstein resolution, and a minute 154 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: they come back into session, a new Democrat will be 155 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: sworn in, giving them the magic number of votes on 156 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: a resolution that would force a debate and vote on 157 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 1: the Epstein resolution. But no, there are no real negotiations 158 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: happening right now. But you know, those premium increases are 159 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: getting closer and closer and closer, And as more Americans 160 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: get their notices that they're about to see a five thousand, 161 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars increase in premiums, the pressure is going 162 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: to mount on Republicans to come to the table and 163 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: reopen the government while also making sure that people don't 164 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: get hurt from a healthcare perspective. And I mean, you 165 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: know the real world consequences yere. We're not talking about numbers. 166 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: This isn't about politics. This is you know, people who 167 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: are going to have to make a really hard decision 168 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: about whether to keep their healthcare or let it lapse 169 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: and potentially based bankruptcy, or pay the increased premium and 170 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: just you know, have their kids go without lunch three 171 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: days a week, or just not have Christmas presents under 172 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: the tree this winter. I mean, their real consequences to 173 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: these premium spiking for middle class families all across the country. 174 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. 175 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 3: I mean the magnitude of those those premium increases are 176 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 3: pretty jaw dropping. Did we just put out in California, which, 177 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 3: of course we provide more coverage than any other state 178 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 3: just by the dairy nature and size and scope and 179 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 3: scale of our state. But we have very familiar here 180 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 3: on the exchange in California what they call the Bronze Plan, 181 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 3: which is the Middle Plan for folks and anthem. And 182 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 3: you got premiums that will go from three hundred and 183 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:56,839 Speaker 3: seven dollars to nine hundred and sixty four dollars a month. 184 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 3: I mean, it's just so it's on average, we talk 185 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 3: about the agurate, but people will see tripling in some 186 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 3: cases up to three hundred and eighty eight percent and 187 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 3: an average of ninety seven percent of those increases, and 188 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 3: we expect six hundred thousand people to lose insurance because 189 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 3: they can't afford it in California, and I know we're 190 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 3: talking four plus million across the United States. So I 191 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 3: appreciate the painting of that picture with clarity and sticking 192 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:27,439 Speaker 3: to two easy issues to understand. Congressionally approved appropriations. Congress 193 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 3: the purse, here's where money. We both approved the legislative 194 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 3: and executive branch where it needs to go. And the 195 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:39,319 Speaker 3: President shouldn't utilaterally change that course, that commitment, that direction 196 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 3: and healthcare. But I'm curious if I could just step 197 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 3: back center what was without breaking confidence. But I'm curious 198 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 3: the Democratic Caucus the determination last time not to move 199 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 3: forward with the government shut down. Lessons learned the expectation 200 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 3: that you needed to prepare for this moment, particularly with 201 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 3: someone as you suggest, it was more interesting in golfing 202 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 3: before the shutdown, and obviously had no interest in meeting 203 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 3: with the leaders because he canceled that first meeting and 204 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 3: then in that last meeting just trolled those leaders in 205 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 3: the Oval Office with a twenty twenty eight Trump Patty 206 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 3: was never serious to your point about negotiating, but knowing 207 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 3: that was what was the journey since the last time, 208 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 3: we decided to continue to allow government to stay open 209 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 3: to the determination this time to get a little bit 210 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 3: tougher in terms of the approach. 211 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we have so few moments of leverage, 212 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: moments where we have power as a minority. Right Republicans, 213 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: whether we like it or not, they run the White House, 214 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: the House, and the Senate, and so when they do 215 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 1: need our votes, I mean, it's really our moral responsibility 216 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: on behalf of the people we represent to stand up 217 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: for things we believe, you know, not to you know, 218 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 1: be pollyannish about what we're ultimately going to get, but 219 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: to stand up for a few things that will help people. 220 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: You know, I disagreed with the decision backing in the 221 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: fall to vote for a budget that was essentially written 222 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: only by Republicans that didn't solve any of the problems 223 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: that they. 224 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 2: Were in the midst of creating. 225 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: But you know, a few things are different that I think, 226 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: you know, allows Democrats to be right now really united 227 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: around using our leverage. 228 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 2: You know. 229 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: One, you know, people see Trump I think more clearly 230 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: now than they did back then. As approval ratings are 231 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: you know, ten points lower too. The pain is you know, 232 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 1: more real now that that big beautiful bill has passed. 233 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: Premiums are about to go up on millions of Americans. 234 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: So the pain is acute right now in a way 235 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: that maybe it wasn't in March. And then, you know, 236 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: back in March, I think there were a lot of 237 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: folks who were worried about his attacks on democracy. But 238 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: maybe we're sort of hoping for the best case. Now 239 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: they see that we are in the middle of a 240 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: totalitarian takeover. If it's not arrested, if it's not stopped, 241 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: they are trying to rig the rules, and thank goodness 242 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,839 Speaker 1: for you and what you're doing in California, they are 243 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: trying to you know, create a state run media. 244 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 2: They are trying to use. 245 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: The Department of Justice to suppress dissent and lock up 246 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: their critics. So you know, that level of alarm is 247 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: much higher. And I just think, you know, it's not 248 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: just Democrats who want us to fight and draw a line. 249 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 1: You know, it's a big part of the middle of 250 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: the country too. So the demand for us to show power, 251 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: I just think is a lot more amplified today that 252 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: it was back in the Spring, which is also why 253 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: so many people all around this country, left, middle, and 254 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: center are cheering what you're doing to show that we 255 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: are not powerless against his efforts to try to rig 256 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: the rules. 257 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 3: So where do you see? I mean, is this we 258 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 3: look at another week, two month? I mean, you're going 259 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 3: to be back at this in seven, six and a 260 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 3: half weeks or six weeks. Isn't there another this sort 261 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 3: of date with destiny in terms of just extending this 262 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 3: narrative even be I know we're talking about this continuing 263 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 3: resolution seven weeks, but that just gets us to another 264 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 3: point where we're going to have another potential shut down. 265 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 3: I mean, is this the bond markets that ultimately we're 266 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 3: going to determine that we're going to break this chill? 267 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 3: Is it the stock market that ultimately is going to 268 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 3: force everybody to come to the table. 269 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 2: What's your gut? Yeah? 270 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: I mean my gut is that Republicans are already starting 271 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: to sweat a little bit. Something interesting happened just about 272 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: ten minutes ago. So we had our lunches today, the 273 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: Republicans all huddle for lunch, Democrats all huddle for lunch, 274 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: and the Republicans came out of their lunch with a 275 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: brand new message, one that we hadn't heard before. Their 276 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: message today was, well, Democrats have this big protest coming up. 277 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: This is the No King's Rally on October eighteenth, and 278 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: so they want to keep the government shut down until 279 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: the No King's Rally, which I've never heard from them before. 280 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: They clearly knew what they were saying yesterday was working, 281 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: and they're scrambling to come up with some new message. 282 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: And I think it's just all a sign Governor that 283 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: you know, they are feeling the heat because they're getting 284 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: more and more calls and emails from constituents who are like, hey, 285 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: what the hell are you going to do about this 286 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: seventy five percent increase. So my guess, if I had 287 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: to put money out of today, is that this isn't 288 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: another month that Republicans come to the table sometime soon 289 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: and say, listen, help help us, help ourselves. Let's get 290 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: rid of these premium increases and listen. That would that 291 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: would help a lot of people, and it would show, 292 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: you know, for the first time all year that you know, 293 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party has fight and has relevance, and so 294 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: I love the optimism. 295 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 3: I mean, it would be a hell of a victory 296 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 3: for millions and millions of Democrats, Republicans, independence. To your point, 297 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 3: the twenty plus million people that are directly impacted, millions 298 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 3: more indirectly impacted. It's not Democrats or Republicans. These are Americans, 299 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 3: and that would be that would be extraordinary outcome. Let 300 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 3: me ask you just you know, in terms of you've 301 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 3: used the word totalitarian. We started as it relates to 302 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 3: the oversight conversation about use the word Kings, not just 303 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 3: in relationship to the October eighteen NOME King's rally. I mean, 304 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 3: I remember the old Chris Murphy. You know, it was 305 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 3: the bipartisan you're working across the aisle, actually producing real results. 306 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 3: You know, I'm old enough to remember the most significant 307 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 3: at least in my lifetime thirty plus years, safer Communities Act, 308 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 3: the work you did mental health and gun safety in 309 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 3: a bipartisan way. 310 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 2: But I've noticed much more well, I don't. 311 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 3: Want to say strident, but I see a Democrat who's 312 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 3: leading the resistance that has more clarity on free speech 313 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 3: in terms of more conviction perhaps and expression around it, 314 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 3: as well as democracy and using language that I understand 315 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 3: that I think is very resident. I'm curious your own 316 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 3: evolution in that respect, and was there a moment that 317 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 3: sort of hit you where you said, I'm going to 318 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 3: I'm going to dial things up a little bit. 319 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I appreciate that coming from you, because 320 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: we have also watched you at a moment where this 321 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: party has been desperate for leadership, bold leadership. We've seen 322 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: you step out and frankly take risks, which is which 323 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: is what I think this country is desperate for us 324 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 1: to do, to show that we understand the gravity of 325 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: this moment and show that we are willing to take 326 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: risks on behalf of saving the democracy. 327 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 2: And probably fifty is a risk, right, not. 328 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: Destined to succeed, but but can and will if we 329 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: put our work behind it. So I appreciate you saying that. Yeah, listen, 330 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: I just see these guys, and I saw these guys early. 331 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 1: They are not Democrats, small d you know, inside the 332 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: Republican Party, they have come to believe over the last 333 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 1: four years that democracy is just not worth it any 334 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: longer if it elects Democrats. 335 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 2: They have come to believe. 336 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:02,479 Speaker 1: That, you know, our support for multiculturalism and civil rights 337 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: and human rights and feminism is you know, an assault 338 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: on the very idea of Americanism, and their version of 339 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: Americanism is a Christian, white male dominated America. So they 340 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: want to get rid of us at any cost, and 341 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: if that cost is the erasure or the weakening of democracy, 342 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 1: then they're willing to live with that. So to me, 343 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: this is all a plan. I mean, a really well 344 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 1: thought out plan to capture the media, to use the 345 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: doj to, which hunts to rig the rules, to change 346 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: the facts, as an attempt to just try to suffocate 347 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: the opposition so that. 348 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 2: We don't have enough room to operate. 349 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: And last thing I'll say is that, you know, I 350 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,959 Speaker 1: think some people say, well, as long as there's you know, 351 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 1: no cancelation of elections, we're in good shape. Well I 352 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 1: don't think they're canceling the elections. I think they're just 353 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:00,719 Speaker 1: going to, you know, do what they've done in Turkey 354 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: and Hungary and other countries like that, where the opposition 355 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 1: party still exists, but they just you know, don't have 356 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: enough space to operate, or the rules are are changed, 357 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: like the shape of districts, so that even if the 358 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: president is wildly unpopular, we can't win. I just see 359 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: these guys, and I know it sounds extreme to suggest 360 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 1: that Republicans are actually trying to engineer an erosion or 361 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: a destruction of our democracy. And I don't think every 362 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: Republican believes that there's still a lot of Republicans in 363 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: the Senate who want to protect democracy, but there are some, 364 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 1: there are some real radicals inside the White House who 365 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: do have plans to convert America to something different than 366 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: liberal democracy. And I just think we have to see 367 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: it and understand it so that we recognize, as you are, 368 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 1: you know, how loud our fight has to be. 369 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 3: How do we overstate or do we understate the influence 370 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 3: of the omb director rest vote. 371 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:58,439 Speaker 1: I mean, I think he's just you know, one of 372 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: many in that White House who who's operationalizing this plan 373 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: to you know, constrict the space that the opposition has 374 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: to to operate. I mean, what he's doing recently is 375 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: another tried and true tactic of would be authoritarians. He's 376 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 1: you know, pausing funding for democratic states, and he's you know, 377 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: hoping that Democrats will essentially bend or self censor themselves 378 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 1: so that they get their money turned back on. It 379 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,360 Speaker 1: wasn't lost on any of us in the Democratic Caucus 380 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: that when they canceled a whole bunch of energy projects. 381 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: One of the states that was exempted was Nevada. One 382 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: of the two Democratic centers from Nevada voted for Trump's 383 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: continuing resolution. So it's a very clear signal. If you 384 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 1: vote with me as a Democrat, your money will continue. 385 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: If you don't vote with me, the money's turned off. So, 386 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: you know, I just think he's he's playing his role, 387 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: But I tend to think that it's more, you know, 388 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: Stephen Miller and that crowd out of the White House 389 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 1: that's orchestrating a lot of the day to day operations 390 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: of trying. 391 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,679 Speaker 2: To on your mind our democratic norms, and. 392 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 3: Those democratic norms now include the militarization of American cities. 393 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 3: We saw that obviously firsthand here in California, not just 394 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 3: with the federalization of the National Guard thousands and thousands, 395 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 3: but seven hundred active duty Marines that were sent to 396 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 3: a US city. We said it at the time, this 397 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 3: is a preview of things to come. Obviously Washington, DC 398 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 3: has its own criterion conditions, but clearly takes shape there 399 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 3: and now taking shape in cities large and small, Portland 400 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 3: attempting to militarize those streets with a federal judge appointed 401 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 3: by Trump who correctly has put a pause, but that's 402 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 3: not necessarily the case. And you brought up Stephen Miller 403 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 3: with what he's been able to effectuate in the city 404 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 3: of Chicago. 405 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 2: Give us your sense of that. 406 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 3: Trend line that's growing headlined now and where you think 407 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 3: things may go if we're not successful in pushing back. 408 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 1: Well, it's incredibly dangerous, and I do think you have 409 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: to put it in this broader context. You know, at 410 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 1: the same time that they are sending our troops into 411 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: Portland and Chicago, they are also getting ready a campaign 412 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: to crack down on what they term, you know, far 413 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:24,239 Speaker 1: left terrorist groups, but that list may include Indivisible and 414 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: move On, just basic run of the mill progressive activist 415 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: groups may all of a sudden be targeted by the 416 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 1: Department of Justice or by the IRS. And so what 417 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: they are doing is using the military, using the Department 418 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 1: of Justice, using the IRS to try to convince people 419 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,360 Speaker 1: that you're just better off staying on the. 420 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:47,120 Speaker 2: Sidelines, right. 421 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: I mean, we'd be naive to think that troops in 422 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 1: your city doesn't have an impact on people's willingness to 423 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: show up and protest. We'd be naive to think that 424 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 1: the threat of IRS action against you're not for profit 425 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: chills your interest to speak truth to power, say what 426 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,360 Speaker 1: you think is true about the immorality of this administration. 427 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 2: So again I. 428 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: Think it's part of this big, broader plan, And again 429 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: it just raises the stakes on his budget fight, because yeah, 430 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: I want to get people's healthcare saved, but I also 431 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: have no moral obligation to vote for a budget that 432 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: funds the destruction of our democracy, that funds those operations 433 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: at the Department of Defense, at the Department of Revenue, 434 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: at the Internal Revenue Service. So that's why this budget 435 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: has to be, you know, not just good for our 436 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 1: healthcare system, but good for our democracy too. 437 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 2: What do you make of you know? 438 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,880 Speaker 3: And the big beautiful bill, as they describe it, the 439 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 3: ability now for ICE to increase its ranks by aparts 440 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 3: of ten thousand personnel, which would make it the largest 441 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 3: domestic police force anywhere in the world. And increasingly it 442 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 3: seems pretty obvious to anyone paying attention, a political domestic 443 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 3: police force that appears not to be as committed to 444 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 3: an oath to the Constitution, but to the oath to 445 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 3: the President himself. At least how it's played out in 446 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 3: my state. What do you make of what's happening there, 447 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 3: not just with the federalization of the Guard and the 448 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 3: militarization of American cities, but with ice, with border patrol, 449 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 3: masked men disproportionately out in the streets, sidewalks, parks, playgrounds, 450 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 3: in and around churches, schools, courthouses. 451 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 2: You know, I'd say two things. 452 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 1: And again, you know, I think you have, better than 453 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: anybody else, called out the moral consequences of a private 454 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 1: police force loyal to the president and not necessarily the 455 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:50,679 Speaker 1: rule of law doing violence to our neighbors without regard 456 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: on most days as to whether those neighbors. 457 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 2: Have committed a crime or not. 458 00:24:55,400 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: But you know, one, I think it's it's really important 459 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: to understand that this isn't popular and Democrats, you know, 460 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 1: have been really reluctant to talk about anything connected to immigration. Yeah, 461 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: I think the Democratic Party should get, you know, stronger 462 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: on a message of a secure border. But I also 463 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: think that, you know, folks really don't like what's happening now, 464 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: and we don't appear to folks as a legitimate opposition 465 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: if we're remaining silent. So folks want a secure border, 466 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 1: but they also don't want ICE going after immigrants who are, 467 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 1: you know, basically playing by the rules and having committed 468 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:41,119 Speaker 1: no violent offenses. So I think that that's really really 469 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 1: important to understand that we've got to talk about what's 470 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 1: happening and that the people will be will be with us. 471 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 3: Do you think, I mean one of the things that 472 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 3: I appreciate, many things that I appreciate about you, is 473 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 3: your willingness to do your own forensics, your own analysis 474 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 3: on went right wrong in the last election, but you 475 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 3: broad in it. You wrote a one I think the 476 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 3: best maybe the best piece quite literally that I've read, 477 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 3: looking back at where our party is, looking at the 478 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 3: present and arguing for a different future. Is your sense 479 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 3: that our party is finance footing again now? I mean, 480 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 3: on the basis we could talk a little bit more, 481 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 3: maybe unpacked, maybe you can illuminate the viewers and listeners 482 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 3: about what you argued is the challenge for our party. 483 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,679 Speaker 3: But is your sense now that we are back on 484 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 3: firmer footing than when you wrote that piece a number 485 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 3: of months ago. Do you feel like our party is 486 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 3: in better shape or worse shape? 487 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 2: Are we finding our voice? 488 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 3: Is this shut down in a perverse sense, helpful in 489 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 3: terms of just organizing that voice and a clarity of 490 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 3: what's at stake. 491 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: All right, well, I'm going to turn that question back 492 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: around on you too. But I mean, the polling would 493 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: not tell you that our party is in good shape today. 494 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 2: We are historically. 495 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: Unpopular and part of that is just, you know, people 496 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: expressing their frustration about Trump's lawlessness through their indictment of 497 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: the opposition that they would hope could have arrested. 498 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 2: More of it. 499 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 1: But yeah, he's giving us an opportunity, right, he has 500 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,159 Speaker 1: been exposed as a fake populist. Right he is simply 501 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: operationalizing government to steal from poor people, cut their health 502 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: care to it enrich himself. And so that really commands 503 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,159 Speaker 1: us to try to figure out why we've lost so 504 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: many votes amongst poor people in this country because they're 505 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: now questioning whether this guy is actually righteous, whether this 506 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: guy actually is looking out for them. But they're not 507 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: ready to vote for Democrats. And that's for a couple 508 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: of reasons. Hey, they think we're just as corrupt as 509 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: Republicans are. And so until we get more forceful in 510 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: the way that we talk about how we would reform 511 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: government if we were back in charge, like maybe a 512 00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: constitutional amendment to ban private money, corporate money on us 513 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: money from campaigns. They're just going to sort of think 514 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 1: that we're all the same stripe. And then two, you know, 515 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: they perceive us Democrats often to be pretty judgmental about 516 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 1: them if they don't line up with us on all 517 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 1: of our social and cultural priorities. And so you know, 518 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: I've gotten in some hot water amongst our friends because 519 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: I've said, listen, I think we should be a party 520 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: who has a tent pole of unrigging our economy and 521 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: unrigging our democracy, and then we should try to let 522 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: into that coalition people who might not agree with us 523 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: on all of the hot button issues, even guns. That 524 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: doesn't mean I stopped fighting any harder for those things. 525 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: I just think we can win a lot more elections 526 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: if we were perceived as being, as I said, a 527 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: little less overtly judgmental of people who don't believe in 528 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: everything that you know, me or Gavin Newsom or Kamala 529 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: Harris believes. And let's just open up the aperture a 530 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: little bit to who we invite in, and we might 531 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: find ourselves winning more elections and being able to get 532 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: a lot of good stuff done for the country. 533 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 3: So is your sense that we're coming to our senses 534 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 3: in that respect or is it still so situational as 535 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 3: you opened up about Trump and trump Ism and sort 536 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 3: of the crisis at hand in this moment, and that 537 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 3: we're still sort of in this fight or flight in 538 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 3: terms of playing defense right now before we then get 539 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 3: back dust off and really talk about that positive alternative 540 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 3: to Trump and trump Ism that is more inclusive, that 541 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 3: broadens our appeal to more people. 542 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's. 543 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: Probably the former. I think we are right now seized 544 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: with this fight. And of course it doesn't really matter 545 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: if we correct from a policy or messaging standpoint if 546 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 1: we don't have an election in twenty twenty six or 547 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 1: we don't have a free and fair election. So it 548 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: is kind of essential at least in twenty twenty five 549 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: for us to make sure that we lose our democracy 550 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 1: within this twelve month period of time. But I think 551 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: we could probably do a better job of walking and 552 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: chewing gum at the same time. I don't know, Gavin, 553 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: it's just to me, you know, we became a party 554 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: that kind of became addicted to incrementalism. You know, we 555 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: thought that these little adjustments on the margins of the 556 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: market could you know, make people's lives better. I just 557 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: want us to be for big ideas again, ideas that 558 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: are as big as the solutions that people face. And again, 559 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: in the way that you're attacking this threat to democracy, 560 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: you've kind of modeled a belief in big ideas. And 561 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: Trump has big ideas. They're racist, they're responsible, divisive ideas. 562 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: The Democratic Party is going to have to have some 563 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: bigger ideas if we want to convince people that we 564 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: know how hard their lives are. 565 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 2: I can't agree with you more. 566 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 3: I mean those talk about trend lines that have become headlines. 567 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 3: You've got an economy for decades that hasn't been working 568 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 3: for folks. And one of the areas that I admire 569 00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 3: you're so focused on as young people, and this notion 570 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 3: of loneliness and isolation and underscorings for the economic trend 571 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 3: lines that are now finally being recognized. As a thirty 572 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 3: year old today living is doing worse than his parents, 573 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 3: which is the first time in US history that's ever 574 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 3: been the case. And the more time I spend online, 575 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 3: more time I spent offline, more time I spend with 576 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 3: my own kids. 577 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 2: You know, I can appreciate this, this sort of that's. 578 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 3: Almost a desperation that I will never ever afford the 579 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 3: home I'm growing up in, or even imagine even being 580 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 3: able to pay rent, even if I have two or 581 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 3: three roommates, or be able to continue to afford the 582 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 3: quality of life that you or my parents are enjoying. 583 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 3: And so I think this notion of moving away from 584 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 3: incrementalism is important, But I also want to unpack this 585 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 3: notion of isolationism and this notion that increasingly people are 586 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 3: sort of understanding and unpacking again. You've written a lot 587 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 3: about it. Maybe you can illuminate us to your thoughts 588 00:31:58,600 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 3: in that respect. 589 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: I appreciate it because you know, there's a there's a 590 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: radical change happening in America today, and it does explain 591 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,239 Speaker 1: a lot of our incivility and a lot of our 592 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: political anchor. We've gone through really a period of great 593 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: social withdrawal. And it's not just the pandemic. It really 594 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 1: dates to, you know, the moment those smartphones got dumped 595 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: in our pockets. Today, the average adult spends half as 596 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: much time every week with friends and family in person 597 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: than they did just thirty years ago. The fall up 598 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: and socialization has been even more severe for our kids. 599 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 1: They're in some instances spending sixty seventy percent less time 600 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: in in person communion than they were just generations ago. 601 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: You know, you have to work longer hours now to 602 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: be able to make ends meet, so there's less leisure 603 00:32:54,720 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: time available for you. We have a a isolation and 604 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: loneliness epidemic in this country, and you know, the Surgeon 605 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,719 Speaker 1: General under Biden talked about you know how that has 606 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: health consequences. You're more likely to have heart disease, dementia 607 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: if you're spending more time alone. But it has practical 608 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: considerations for our politics. I mean, I bet you a 609 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: lot of those people who were riding at the Capitol 610 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: on January sixth were pretty lonely people that came to 611 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: believe these conspiracy theories about Democrats because they were first 612 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: sad about their loneliness, and then they were angry about 613 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: it and they wanted to. 614 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 2: Take it out on somebody. 615 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: So, you know, I just think that you know, the 616 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: in that founding document, it says that government is supposed 617 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: to guarantee the right to pursue happiness and happiness is rooted, yeah, 618 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: in your career, but mostly in your relationships, mostly in 619 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: you know, how connected you feel to your community. So 620 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: I would love a conversation about how we kind of 621 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 1: unwind this cycle of social withdrawal. And I think we 622 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 1: should start with our kids. You and I am raising 623 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: kids in this age of smartphones. You and I talked 624 00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: about it last time we saw each other in person. 625 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: I remember you having done a better job than I 626 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 1: have and my kid's mom has in keeping our kids 627 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: away from that technology. But you know, you could just 628 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 1: start by restricting the access kids after social media, giving 629 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 1: them a chance at meeting each other more often, and 630 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:19,279 Speaker 1: then maybe that would spin them into healthier adults. I 631 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: just think it's a real important and unifying conversation because 632 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,280 Speaker 1: like right and left, don't feel differently about the poison 633 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,360 Speaker 1: that's being handed to our kids. They want us to 634 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 1: step up and do something. 635 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 3: I completely concurrent in terms of just the universality of 636 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 3: the concerns and the consideration of how we can I mean, 637 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 3: this is about communitarianism. It's not about political party. It's 638 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 3: about our shared experience, shared humanity. And I think this 639 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 3: explains more things and more ways on more days in 640 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 3: terms of our politics and unpacking that is critical and 641 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 3: the interest of trying to sort of unpack more issues 642 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,799 Speaker 3: and distill in a very short period of time. I 643 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 3: want to unpack a little bit about your reference a 644 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 3: moment that very much is in line with what we 645 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 3: were just talking and you mentioned media and passing. You 646 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 3: obviously have tried to meet the moment with the Nope Act, 647 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 3: which I want to talk about in a second, in 648 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 3: relationship to what happened with Jimmy Kimmel. But there's a 649 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 3: lot happening with social media. TikTok now peers to be 650 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 3: transferring hands to American investors disproportionate number that have strong 651 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 3: ties to the Temper administration. We've seen what's happened with 652 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 3: Paramount deal and obviously new announcement to the new Barry 653 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 3: Weise who's going to be running CBS, and just a 654 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 3: shift now consolidation into hands of fewer and fewer people. 655 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 3: Seems like more oversight, or at least more settlements that 656 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 3: imply more oversight, including with YouTube that's sending twenty two 657 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:55,919 Speaker 3: million dollars of a twenty four and a half million 658 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 3: dollars settlement to build a new ballroom that is not, 659 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 3: by the way, be packed it by the government shut 660 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 3: down the construction there. What's your what's your sense of 661 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,600 Speaker 3: what's happening the media landscape in this. 662 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 2: Well that doesn't sound too good when you, you know, 663 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 2: lay it out that way. Leading question here. 664 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,000 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, like you know this, you know, totalitarianism 665 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,959 Speaker 1: and monopoly go hand in hand. You know, it's really 666 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: important to you know, somebody that's seeking to contract the 667 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 1: space for descents to you know, be able to pull 668 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: the levers of media control. And it's really really worrying 669 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 1: that increasingly there's a really small number of people in 670 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:41,800 Speaker 1: this country who control the platforms upon which we communicate. 671 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:43,720 Speaker 2: The algorithms really matter there. 672 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: And control the sources of news that we all consume. 673 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 1: You mentioned this, You know this one company that's essentially 674 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,799 Speaker 1: controlled by the Ellison family. They're very very close to 675 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 1: Donald Trump. They just bought up Paramount, which on CBS 676 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 1: and immediately installed Arry Wise, right leaning commentator in charge 677 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 1: of the news. 678 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:07,800 Speaker 2: They now are. 679 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: Looking to buy an even bigger media company that includes CNN. 680 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: They may have control of TikTok. I mean, this is 681 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 1: one family now that could have CBS, CNN, TikTok, and 682 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 1: you saw what happened to Kimmel when the state starts 683 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: to use its regulatory power to act on small and 684 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 1: medium sized actors and say, if you want to keep 685 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,400 Speaker 1: your license or you want to ever get a merger approved, 686 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:35,439 Speaker 1: you've got to listen to us in terms of who 687 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: can speak and who can't speak. Again, this is you know, 688 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: what's been happening in Hungary over the past twenty years, 689 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 1: is that the government just starts to cut deals with 690 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,600 Speaker 1: very rich people. Will let you take ownership over this 691 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 1: media company and will make you We'll let you make 692 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: a lot of money off of it, but you have 693 00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: to tilt the coverage towards us. And it's pretty clear 694 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: and in fact, pretty brazen and transparent that that's what 695 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 1: Trump is time to do. So you know, we've got to, 696 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 1: you know, speak up about that. But we also have 697 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,800 Speaker 1: to tell people that if you put Democrats in charge, 698 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,800 Speaker 1: we're going to do something about these media monopolies. I 699 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: think that's actually pretty popular because I think folks out 700 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: there don't like the fact that, you know, the news 701 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: is being controlled by a small handful of individuals and 702 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:24,240 Speaker 1: companies in this country. 703 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,840 Speaker 3: So after what occurred with Jimmy Kimmel and the SCC 704 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:32,839 Speaker 3: and concerns. You introduced an actual strategy to respond to that, 705 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:38,360 Speaker 3: not just rhetoric, but actual legislative plan referred to and 706 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,839 Speaker 3: you're of an act. There's the NOPE Act. Unpack that. 707 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 3: What's the N and O and P and E stand for? 708 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,359 Speaker 1: Well, you know, it is important also to just remember that, 709 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,759 Speaker 1: you know, Kimmel's back on the air, right, and it's 710 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: another demonstration of you know, our power. In that case, 711 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 1: it was commercial power that we you know, used our 712 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,880 Speaker 1: powers consumers to say that Disney listens are going to 713 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 1: be consequences to you if you essentially engaged in Trump's 714 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 1: censorship regime. And we can do that again through our 715 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 1: commercial power. But we also have that same power politically. 716 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,800 Speaker 1: So you know, the notepack is, you know, is a 717 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 1: is a bill about banning political prosecutions. So we just 718 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,399 Speaker 1: set up a whole new set of common sense defenses 719 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,399 Speaker 1: that individuals would have in court if they ever got 720 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: prosecuted for free speech. Now it's illegal to arrest somebody 721 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,320 Speaker 1: just because they're protesting the government, but that hasn't stopped 722 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:37,440 Speaker 1: Trump from doing it. 723 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 2: I don't remember if it. 724 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,799 Speaker 1: Was Stalin or some other famous totalitarian and once you 725 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: know said show me the person and I'll. 726 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:46,800 Speaker 2: Find you the crime. 727 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,760 Speaker 1: Right like you know, you can dig up something somebody 728 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 1: has done and alleged it is a crime, even though 729 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,759 Speaker 1: your underlying motivation is really to punish their speech. What 730 00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,360 Speaker 1: this bill does is just set up a number of 731 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,439 Speaker 1: defenses you raise in court if you believe you're being 732 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 1: persecuted for speech, and allows you to ultimately collect attorneys 733 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,920 Speaker 1: fees and have repercussions against the charging agent if it 734 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 1: turns out that you were unconstitutionally pursued for your political activity. 735 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:17,720 Speaker 2: So listen, I don't I don't have any. 736 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,880 Speaker 1: Illusions that that bill is going to pass in a 737 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:24,440 Speaker 1: Republican Congress. But it's just another way for us to 738 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,320 Speaker 1: raise for folks the specter of what they're doing. 739 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 3: So let's in finishing up here, I want to sort 740 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,640 Speaker 3: of go back to the beginning and just you know, 741 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 3: you made the point on multiple occasions, including the reference 742 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,319 Speaker 3: to how people really use their voice and express their 743 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,880 Speaker 3: disdain for what occurred and put a lot of pressure 744 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 3: on Disney and Kimmel getting back on air in no 745 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:52,280 Speaker 3: large part was because of people exercising their free speech 746 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 3: and pushing back. You mentioned the No King's rally on 747 00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 3: October eighteenth. You mentioned as well Indivisible and other organizations 748 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 3: you've been supporting, and we're grateful and you've been champion 749 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 3: for so many of these, uh, these these sort of democratic, 750 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,960 Speaker 3: small de organizations all across this country. What you know, 751 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 3: where where do you see things going as we map 752 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,800 Speaker 3: out twenty twenty six? I mean, uh, there, it's pretty 753 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 3: clear Trump would have made those phone calls, first one 754 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 3: being to Greg Abbott said he's entitled to five seats 755 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 3: in Texas, and those subsequent phone calls. So you saw 756 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 3: that poor Indiana governor who said I had no choice 757 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 3: and he publicly said it out loud because he would 758 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,960 Speaker 3: take my money. Just think about that, I mean, President 759 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 3: saying he's entitled to five seats. And I don't think 760 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,800 Speaker 3: enough people paid attention to what the governor of Indiana 761 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,400 Speaker 3: said of why he's moving with redistricting just under just 762 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 3: the auspices of being threatened with government money. What do 763 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,920 Speaker 3: you make of where we are and where we'll be 764 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 3: this time next year in terms of our prospects not 765 00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 3: only for the House representatives but the United States Senate 766 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:06,760 Speaker 3: and how important are these organizing groups, the No King's 767 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 3: rally and the momentum that we need to build in 768 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 3: terms of sharing our voice between now and then in 769 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,040 Speaker 3: terms of getting back into control and power. 770 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,520 Speaker 1: Well, you know, you mentioned you know before, maybe my 771 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 1: my over optimism about our ability to get Republicans to 772 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:25,280 Speaker 1: do the right thing on the shutdown. 773 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 2: I don't know. 774 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:27,759 Speaker 1: My feeling is that, you know, people like you and 775 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:31,359 Speaker 1: me kind of have to be absurd optimists, you know, 776 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,719 Speaker 1: sticking this business for as long as we have. But 777 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 1: I'm optimistic about a our ability to defend democracy and 778 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,160 Speaker 1: our ability to win next November. 779 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a lot of it has to. 780 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 1: Do with the success of your effort and the success 781 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,040 Speaker 1: of other states' efforts to try to balance out the 782 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 1: harm that they're doing in places like Texas and Indiana. 783 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,480 Speaker 1: But you know, there's this really interesting study that was 784 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,600 Speaker 1: done some years ago that looked at democracies that were crumbling, 785 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,920 Speaker 1: right that we're being challenged by an elected leader who 786 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,280 Speaker 1: you know, essentially wanted to stay in power forever. 787 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:04,560 Speaker 2: And what they found. 788 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,839 Speaker 1: But the study found is that there's kind of a 789 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,560 Speaker 1: magic number, a magic number of citizens that once they 790 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,840 Speaker 1: hit the street, end up just putting the sand in 791 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,480 Speaker 1: the gears of that to sent away from the democracy. 792 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,200 Speaker 1: The number is sort of two to three percent of 793 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,640 Speaker 1: the people. I think on October eighteenth, we're going to 794 00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,080 Speaker 1: maybe see record numbers of people all around this country 795 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,359 Speaker 1: standing up and speaking out. And that will, you know, 796 00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:30,720 Speaker 1: cause just a little bit of concern amongst Republicans who think, well, 797 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 1: maybe this isn't as strong a bet as I thought. 798 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,280 Speaker 1: You know, maybe I am going to lose my seat 799 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,640 Speaker 1: if I continue to endorse this corruption. Maybe that'll give 800 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,600 Speaker 1: a little bit more confidence to some corporate CEO or 801 00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 1: some leader of a school or a law firm out 802 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,359 Speaker 1: there to say no to the attempts at bullying. So 803 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,640 Speaker 1: I just think it's still in our hands. History tells 804 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,440 Speaker 1: us that when the people stand up, something magical happens, 805 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:58,600 Speaker 1: whether it's fear on the other side, courage to allies 806 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,680 Speaker 1: who have been sitting on the sideline, We still have 807 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:05,040 Speaker 1: the ability to save this thing. And again, you know, all, 808 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 1: you know, all credit to what you are doing in California, 809 00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,719 Speaker 1: which in many ways is the center of our you know, 810 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:17,279 Speaker 1: national effort to resist. Whether it was what you did 811 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:21,080 Speaker 1: to raise issue with the deployment of federal troops, what 812 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,360 Speaker 1: you've done to stand up to his uses of spending 813 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,160 Speaker 1: power to bully states into submission or Prop fifty. I 814 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,240 Speaker 1: think we'll have a big turnout on the eighteenth. 815 00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:32,040 Speaker 2: I think we'll. 816 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,720 Speaker 1: Continue to grow indivisible and move on in local groups, 817 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,640 Speaker 1: and in the end, I think we'll be in a 818 00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,839 Speaker 1: strong position. A Senate's hard next November, no doubt about it. 819 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:41,600 Speaker 1: Like if you had an outcome where we won the 820 00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,720 Speaker 1: House and we didn't win the Senate, that that wouldn't 821 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,160 Speaker 1: you know, spell doom for democracy. 822 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:47,479 Speaker 2: That would still be a good day. 823 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:51,319 Speaker 1: But you know, if it's appropleer ratings stayed out in 824 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,759 Speaker 1: the low thirties, mid thirties, we got a chance to, 825 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:59,160 Speaker 1: you know, win places like Texas, flip a couple of 826 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,680 Speaker 1: seats that people maybe weren't expecting in the Senate and 827 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 1: maybe surprise folks. 828 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,400 Speaker 3: Love to hear that optimism, and it's a reminder, you know, 829 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 3: Justice brand I said it better than any of us. 830 00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:12,080 Speaker 3: In a democracy, the most important office is office of citizen. 831 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,279 Speaker 3: This notion of act of not inert citizenship. And we 832 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:18,680 Speaker 3: saw that the last big protests a few months back, 833 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:23,160 Speaker 3: and I hope on October eighteenth, everybody is hearing Senator 834 00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:25,879 Speaker 3: Murphy loud and clear, the opportunity to really, you know, 835 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,320 Speaker 3: not just show up for ourselves, but show up for 836 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,319 Speaker 3: each other, show up for our founding fathers. They didn't 837 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,839 Speaker 3: live and die to watch two hundred and forty nine 838 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:38,200 Speaker 3: years of these enduring principles of you know, co equal 839 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,480 Speaker 3: branches of government, popular sovereignty, the rule of law be 840 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:46,160 Speaker 3: replaced by, as we've said, the rule of don And 841 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,920 Speaker 3: so I'm grateful Center for all your leadership, and I 842 00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 3: encourage everybody listening watching. I don't remember under what was 843 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,280 Speaker 3: it a blog that you wrote yourself? Was it published 844 00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:00,480 Speaker 3: in some fancy magazine? 845 00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,560 Speaker 1: But I wrote I wrote something longer. I think it 846 00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:09,000 Speaker 1: was for I don't remember what it was American Prospect. 847 00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,600 Speaker 1: I think that's where it was. I talked about it. Yeah, 848 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,200 Speaker 1: google it sort of. There was a realignment of America, 849 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,640 Speaker 1: and how you know, there's there's a lot of folks 850 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,080 Speaker 1: out there who want to break out of Trump's camp, 851 00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,520 Speaker 1: but need the Democratic Party to feel a little bit 852 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:24,719 Speaker 1: more sincere and a little bit more robust in the 853 00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:26,960 Speaker 1: way that we attack concentrated power. 854 00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,880 Speaker 2: So hopefully I'm right. It was. 855 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,120 Speaker 3: It was a long piece and it deserved to be long, 856 00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,160 Speaker 3: and it was every word was important. And I can't 857 00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,600 Speaker 3: impress upon people more the importance of taking a look 858 00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,680 Speaker 3: at it because you brought in the aperture and you 859 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,920 Speaker 3: really looked at our party more broadly and connected to 860 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:49,400 Speaker 3: cultural issues, more larger societal issues, not just tactical or 861 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:53,760 Speaker 3: situational issues. And again I I I'll end as I began. 862 00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:58,200 Speaker 3: One of the brightest lights in the Democratic Party. Guy 863 00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,880 Speaker 3: shows up every single day online, offline. Senator Chris Murphy, 864 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:02,799 Speaker 3: thanks for being with us. 865 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:04,919 Speaker 2: You're my hero man. Thanks a lot, Thank you, brother,