1 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: Hey, you Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb. We had a scheduling change with 3 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,279 Speaker 1: an interview today, so we are going to run a 4 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: vault episode while we reschedule that. This is going to 5 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 1: be an episode that originally published eight eighteen, twenty twenty two. 6 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: It is on the idea of the null ship, the 7 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: principles of the vacuum airship. This is a pretty fun 8 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: one where we talked about futuristic materials in seventeenth century 9 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 1: flight concepts. So without further ado, let's dive right into 10 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: the episode. 11 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of iHeartRadio. 12 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: Wecome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name is 13 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: Robert Lamb. 14 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 3: And I'm Joe McCormick. 15 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: And in today's episode, we're going to be looking at 16 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: a spectacular bit of hypothetical air travel that has intrigued 17 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: us for centuries. The vacuum airship or null ship as 18 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: I've seen it referred and that's such a cool name 19 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: for something that I think I had a front loaded 20 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: on this episode, but usually it's just referred to as 21 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: a vacuum airship. And the basic principle, as we'll discuss 22 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: is pretty simple. Hydrogen, helium or hot air filled balloons 23 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: allow an airship to traverse the skies because these gases 24 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: are lighter than the surrounding air. An even lighter gas 25 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: is the absence of any gas at all, the vacuum. 26 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: If one could create a vacuum chamber or bladder that 27 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: was itself light enough, then this could be used to 28 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: provide lift for airships on Earth or even on other planets. 29 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 3: I mean, it's such an obvious extension of the idea 30 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 3: underlying balloon indirigibles all lighter than their flight craft. You 31 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 3: would have to assume that if you don't see things 32 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 3: like this being used all the time, there must be 33 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 3: a pretty good reason, And I guess we'll get to 34 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 3: that in a little bit. But yeah, it's like an 35 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 3: obvious place to take the idea. 36 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And so yeah, it's ultimately such a fascinating 37 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: topic because, yeah, there's the basic underlying science of it, 38 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: The principles of it are pretty sound, there are material 39 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: challenges in place, but then the history of the concept 40 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: is pretty interesting as well. Thus far, however, the main 41 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: place you'll see these vacuum airships deployed are going to 42 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: be within the pages of science fiction and fantasy. And 43 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,119 Speaker 1: one of the main examples of this, and you'll see 44 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: this widely cited, is a novel that was serialized between 45 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,799 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty nine and nineteen thirty by Edgar Reis Burroughs 46 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 1: titled Tarzan at the Earth's Core, not to be confused 47 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: with At the Earth's Core, which was his ninth fourteen 48 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: novel that established the hollow Earth world of Pellucidar, which 49 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: is this like it sounds, It's like a world within 50 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: our world. It has a race of intelligent and I 51 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: think psychic Terasaar overlords called the Mahar or the Mahar, 52 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: and that novel prominently features a Subterarine. So we've actually 53 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: mentioned that book on the show before in our episode 54 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: about Subdarenes, which is another sort of fantastic hypothetical means 55 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: of traversing the natural environment. But this Tarzan at the 56 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: Earth's Core, is a crossover novel which features Tarzan traveling 57 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: to the inner world via a vacuum airship. And I 58 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: had to dive into this one a little bit. I 59 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: assume you haven't read this one either. 60 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 3: No, I haven't read it. I do remember it was 61 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 3: mentioned in that earlier episode but also it just got 62 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 3: me thinking about, like, wait, where do all of these 63 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 3: science fiction books about a hollow earth with like a 64 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 3: different biosphere or some kind of archaic state. Where does 65 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 3: all that come from? Because this isn't the first one. 66 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 3: This is in what nineteen twenty nine thirty, But like 67 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 3: as far back as the eighteen sixties you had Jules 68 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 3: Vern with Journey to the Center of the Earth, which 69 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 3: is very similar concept. I don't think it has like 70 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 3: psychic pterosaurs, but it does have a hollow earth with 71 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 3: like essentially a mirror biosphere on the inside that has 72 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 3: dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures. 73 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: Well, it makes me think we should come back and 74 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: do a proper episode on the concept of the hollow earth. 75 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: You know why it wouldn't work a quiet individuals thought 76 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 1: that it could have worked, and why it has you 77 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: know why it has captivated people's imagination for so long. 78 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know of anything older than Jules Vern, 79 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 3: but there may be. 80 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: So I had not read this book either. I think 81 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: the only Edgar Reis Burrough's novel that I have read 82 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 1: is one called The Monster Men, which Memory serves is largely. 83 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: It seems very inspired by the Eye in an island 84 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,359 Speaker 1: of Doctor Moreau, but it was pretty fun, as I 85 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: remember it, and so I went ahead and dove into 86 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: this one, and I was reading through it trying to 87 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: find some good examples of them talking about vacuum airships. 88 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 1: And I think I wasted a good like twenty twenty 89 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: five minutes just scanning through the book trying to do 90 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: some searches. And then I realized that I was looking 91 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: at the wrong one. I was looking at the Earth's 92 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: Core instead of Tarzan at the Earth's Core. But I 93 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: switched to the correct book, and they talk about the 94 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: vacuum airship a lot in that one. So I can't 95 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: just find like the one spot where they're talking about it. 96 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: It's a frequent topic of conversation. But I do want 97 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: to read just a fragment here from it where they 98 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,799 Speaker 1: touch on it. So this is Edgar Reisburrough's from Tarzan 99 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: at the Earth's Core again from nineteen twenty nine and 100 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty. The greatest risk that we would have to 101 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: face would be a possible inability to return to the 102 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 1: outer crust owing to the depletion of our helium gas 103 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: that might be made necessary by the maneuvering of the ship. 104 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 1: But that is only the same chance of life or 105 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: death that every explorer and scientific investigator must be willing 106 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: to assume in the prosecution of his labors. If it 107 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: were but possible to build a whole sufficiently light and 108 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 1: at the same time sufficiently strong to withstand atmospheric pressure, 109 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 1: we could dispense with both the dangerous hydrogen gas and 110 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: the rare and expensive helium gas, and have the assurance 111 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: of the utmost safety and maximum of buoyancy in a 112 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: ship supported entirely by vacuum tanks. Perhaps even that is possible, 113 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: said Tarzan, who was now evincing increasing interest in Gridley's proposition. 114 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: The American shook his head. It may be possible someday, 115 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: he said, but not at present with any known material. 116 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 1: Any receptacle having sufficient strength to withstand the atmospheric pressure 117 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 1: upon a vacuum would have a weight far too great 118 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:50,119 Speaker 1: for the vacuum to lift. 119 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 3: Okay, so, first of all, I am definitely picturing this 120 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 3: as the Christoff Lambert Tarzan from Graystoke. This has got 121 00:06:57,960 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 3: to be it, right. 122 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, the gentleman Tarzan here mild spoiler for the book. 123 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: Obviously they figure it out. I believe some sort of 124 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: rare element or metal is introduced that it makes the 125 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: impossible possible, because otherwise, how are you going to get 126 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: Tarzan to the Inner Earth to battle psychic terosaurs. 127 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 3: I mean, it's funny how this Psychic Terosaur book does 128 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 3: correctly diagnose some of the problems with existing lighter than 129 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 3: air craft. So one problem is needing to have continued 130 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 3: access to your lighter than air gas so that you 131 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 3: can refill the balloon or the tank do because there's 132 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 3: always going to be some kind of leakage or potentially 133 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 3: even damage that would allow the gas to escape. You'd 134 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 3: have to have a way to get more helium in there. 135 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 3: If it's helium. Of course, if it's hydrogen, you run 136 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 3: into a whole raft of other problems, as one can 137 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 3: see with the history of the hinden Burgens of forth, 138 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 3: hydrogen very flammable and having the same fixed access problems 139 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 3: as helium. But yeah, with a vacuum like you don't 140 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 3: need to carry vacuum around with you. All you would 141 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,239 Speaker 3: need to do is find a way to pump out 142 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:11,679 Speaker 3: to the chamber. 143 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you can see why it's such an attractive option, 144 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: and this passage kind of encapsulates all that I was 145 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: looking around. Two, I noticed that it's been noted that 146 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: at least two other authors that we've mentioned on the 147 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: show before have also employed vacuum airship principles. Peter Watts 148 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: makes use of them in his Rifters books as a 149 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 1: means of enabling flying machines. I'd totally forgotten about this, 150 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: and then Ian M. Banks invoked them in at least 151 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: three different novels, including at least one that I definitely read. 152 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: But I also don't remember mention of them. I guess 153 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: I just wasn't My mind wasn't as open to the 154 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: idea of vacuum airships when I was reading these books. 155 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: And I've also read that they factor into Neil Stevens 156 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: since The Diamond Age, which I have not read, but 157 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: I've heard good things about. 158 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 3: So wait a minute, I actually know almost nothing about Tarzan. 159 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 3: Where all does Tarzan go? Is he like the Leprechaun 160 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 3: or like he goes to space? He goes to the ocean, 161 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 3: he goes to the Hollow Earth? Does does he go 162 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 3: to Las Vegas at some point? What are all his adventures? 163 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: Well, Joe, there are twenty four Tarzan novels by by 164 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: Edgar W Reis Burroughs, so you know he ultimately gets around. 165 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: I have not read any of them, but you can 166 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,559 Speaker 1: just when you start scanning the titles, you realize that 167 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: he maybe starts running out of jungle and he has 168 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: to has to go to lost Empires in the Earth's 169 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: core and a city of gold Forbidden City. Looks like 170 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: he may join the Foreign Legion at one point, so 171 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: you know, he's got to get out there and travel 172 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: around and explore the outer world. But I think generally speaking, 173 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: he's always going to battle or befriends some sort of 174 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: a large animal. 175 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 3: Thank you for correcting my tarzan ignorance. Now I know, 176 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 3: all right, But I guess before we go any further 177 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 3: exploring the history of proposals for vacuum airships, it would 178 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 3: be worth briefly explaining the underlying reasoning, and that is 179 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 3: that whether you're talking about a lighter than air gas 180 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 3: inside a balloon or a rigid chamber containing a vacuum, 181 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 3: the physics phenomenon that would cause this balloon or chamber 182 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,839 Speaker 3: to fly is what's known as Archimedes principle, named after 183 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 3: the ancient Greek inventor and mathematician, And I think the 184 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 3: core idea you really need to understand in order to 185 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 3: grasp archimedes principle at a gut level is the idea 186 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 3: of fluid displacement. Fluid displacement so a few extreme experimental 187 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 3: conditions aside. Basically, if you are on Earth, you are 188 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 3: submerged within a fluid. So if you're a barracuda or 189 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,839 Speaker 3: a jellyfish, that fluid is going to be water. If 190 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 3: you are a human standing in line at burger king, 191 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 3: that fluid is the atmosphere. Both gases and liquids are 192 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 3: fluids because they both flow to fill containing environments. And 193 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 3: when you occupy space within a mass of either kind 194 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 3: of fluid, whether it's liquid or gas, you are taking 195 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 3: up space that this fluid would otherwise fill, would otherwise 196 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 3: rush in to fill, So in other words, you are 197 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:11,319 Speaker 3: displacing gas or liquid. The inside about physics that Archimedes 198 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 3: had is that objects submerged within a fluid are pushed upward, 199 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 3: meaning in the opposite direction of gravity, by a force 200 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 3: that is equal to the weight of the fluid displaced 201 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 3: by that object. And this is why boats float. I mean, 202 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 3: humans have been making boats for a long time, but 203 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 3: it took us a while to figure out what is 204 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 3: the exact physics principle governing the floatation of boats. So 205 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 3: a boat, for example, may have a steel hull, and 206 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 3: steel is very dense, so you would think that a 207 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 3: steel boat should sink, right, I remember wondering about this 208 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 3: when I was a little kid. How does metal sink? 209 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 3: So how does a metal boat float? A metal boat 210 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 3: floats because the hull of the boat displaces a lot 211 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 3: of water, an amount of water that is as heavy 212 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 3: as the boat itself. So when a boat gets launched 213 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 3: out into the ocean, it sinks down in the water 214 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 3: until the amount of water it displaces is the same 215 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 3: as the weight of the boat overall. And then after 216 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 3: it reaches this equilibrium, it's held up on the surface 217 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 3: of the water by that buoyancy, that force pushing upward 218 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 3: on the boat equivalent to the weight of the water 219 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 3: it displaces. And this, of course is also why a 220 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 3: ship sinks when water leaks into its hull. It's water 221 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 3: that is denser than air filling that void that was 222 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 3: otherwise filled with air. So a kind of weird, but 223 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 3: I think accurate way to think of a ship on 224 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 3: the ocean is a rigid balloon filled with air. Now, 225 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 3: the same principles that apply in water also hold true 226 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 3: in the fluid of the atmosphere. There is a force 227 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 3: pushing up on an object that is equivalent to the 228 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 3: weight of the air that that object displaces. Now, for 229 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 3: most objects around us, the atmospheric buoyancy is negligible because 230 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 3: objects are way more dense than the atmosphere that they're displacing. 231 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 3: Though technically it is true that your body has a 232 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 3: measurable buoyancy within the air, it's not enough to make 233 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 3: you float up off the ground because human bodies are 234 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 3: pretty massive. But based on some rough calculations I looked up, 235 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 3: it seems like it's probably a fraction of a pound 236 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 3: at sea level for the typical range of human body weights. 237 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 3: One estimate I saw was that it's like zero point 238 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 3: two pounds for one hundred and seventy pound adult. So, 239 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 3: how can you change an object in order to take 240 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 3: advantage of that atmospheric buoyancy and make it float up 241 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 3: in the atmosphere like a boat floats on the water. Well, 242 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 3: as demonstrated by balloons and dirigibles, what you can do 243 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 3: is make that object take up a lot of space, 244 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 3: mostly with material that is lighter than the atmosphere itself, 245 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 3: which is usually going to be a lighter than air 246 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 3: gas like hydrogen or helium. But of course it could 247 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 3: also be a chamber that has no gas in it 248 00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:59,839 Speaker 3: at all, nothing in it at all, which would be 249 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 3: the lightest possible way of taking up space. Now here's 250 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 3: a weird fact. I was just wondering about which of 251 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 3: the fundamental forces actually causes the force of buoyancy. Where 252 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 3: is that force pushing up on a boat or pushing 253 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 3: up on a balloon coming from? Counterintuitively, that force originates 254 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 3: with gravity, which is kind of strange because the force 255 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 3: of buoyancy is going in the opposite direction of gravity, Right, 256 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 3: Why would gravity cause something to rise up from the 257 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 3: ground instead of sinking down. But you have to think 258 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 3: about a sort of chain of causes here. So whether 259 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 3: you're talking about the atmosphere or the ocean, gravity is 260 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 3: pulling all that fluid toward the Earth's center of mass. 261 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 3: It's pulling all the water or the gas down. So 262 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 3: gravity is the cause of air pressure and water pressure, 263 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 3: and it is the downward pressure of the surrounding fluid 264 00:14:55,720 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 3: that causes buoyant objects within that fluid to rise. To 265 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 3: use some kind of approximate and anthropomorphic terms, when a 266 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 3: balloon floats, it's because the heavier gas of the atmosphere 267 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 3: around it is all rushing down to get to the surface, 268 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 3: and it has to push the balloon out of the 269 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 3: way to get there, and it can push the balloon 270 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 3: out of the way because the balloon is less dense 271 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 3: than it is. 272 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: It's kind of like if asking, well, hey, why if 273 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: everybody's trying to get to the TV section of the 274 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: big box store on Black Friday. If everybody's trying to 275 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: get there, then why is the four Why am I 276 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: being pushed out of the store? Yeah? 277 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 3: Because everybody else is pushing harder than you are. 278 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. 279 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 3: But to come to real world proposals for vacuum airships, 280 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 3: one thing I was shocked about was how far back 281 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 3: this idea goes. I would have imagined it was something 282 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 3: dreamed up in the nineteenth century. 283 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was very much the same. But then I 284 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: started looking into it, and sure enough, the roots go 285 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: all the way back to the seventeenth century. So our 286 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: story here begins with an Italian Jesuit priest by the 287 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: name of Francesco Lana de Terzi, who lived sixteen thirty 288 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: one through sixteen eighty seven, sometimes called the father of aeronautics. 289 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: His groundbreaking book from sixteen seventy, titled pro Dromo de 290 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: l'arte mastre, was apparently the first to discuss the possibility 291 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: of human flight via mathematical calculations and an understanding of physics. 292 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: These were no mere lost speculations either. This was a 293 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: work that was translated and then circulated throughout Europe, and 294 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: subsequent advancements in ballooning, for example, are often directly linked 295 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: to this work, namely thinking of the Montegaffier brothers a 296 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: flight in seventeen eighty three, which was an unmanned balloon 297 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: flight lasting about ten minutes. Now, want to stress we're 298 00:16:55,200 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: largely talking with the Western and European sphere of exploration here. 299 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: If you get into say Eastern accounts, there are some 300 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 1: older accounts of possible you know, unmanned hot air balloon 301 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: experimentation in China for example, going back to I think 302 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: like the third century see wow, but again unmanned. Now, 303 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,719 Speaker 1: in this particular book, Lana covered many subjects, and I 304 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 1: was reading about this in a paper titled the Jessuwit 305 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: Contribution to Written Art Technological Sources in the seventeenth and 306 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: eighteenth centuries by Karina Gramatki from twenty sixteen. Apparently, the 307 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: topics include invention itself, drawing, design, pigments, chemistry, medicine, arithmetic, 308 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 1: the production of telescopes, microscopes, and finally aeronautics. 309 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 3: Pick a lane. 310 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: I mean, this was an age where, yeah, if you 311 00:17:55,560 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: were into stuff, you were into everything. Yeah, So of 312 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: particular interest to Lana here though, were recent advancements in 313 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: the creation of the vacuum pump. This had, of course 314 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: been a continuation of suction pump technology. The idea of 315 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: the vacuum pump. The first vacuum pump was invented in 316 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: sixteen fifty by the German scientist Auto von Gerriki and 317 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: subsequently experimented on by others. Oh. 318 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, we've talked about Auto von Gerriki before in I 319 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 3: think in an episode that we did about atmospheric pressure, 320 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 3: specifically reference to his experiments with the so called Magdeburg hemispheres, 321 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 3: which was a really interesting experiment that took place in 322 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 3: the sixteen fifties, I believe, And it's been while since 323 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 3: we talked about it, so I may be forgetting some 324 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 3: of the details, but basically, from what I recall, they 325 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 3: took two brass hemispheres half spheres, and then greased the 326 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 3: edges of them with lard and then pressed them together 327 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 3: and then used the invent of the air pump to 328 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 3: remove air from inside these two hemispheres, creating a vacuum within, 329 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 3: of course, a partial vacuum. You know, they're not going 330 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 3: to get every single molecule out, but yeah, getting most 331 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 3: of the gas out of them. And then they hooked 332 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 3: these hemispheres up to horses and had the horses pull 333 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 3: in opposite directions to try to pull them apart, and 334 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 3: they couldn't. Like that, even horses could not separate them. 335 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 3: What they were demonstrating there was how heavy the atmosphere is. 336 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,640 Speaker 3: That when you take all of the atmosphere out of 337 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 3: the inside of these two half spheres, you create such 338 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 3: a disequilibrium that the you know, the atmosphere is essentially 339 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,360 Speaker 3: reaching down and clutching these two things and pressing them 340 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 3: together so that even great force cannot pull them apart. 341 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, there are a couple of papers on this topic 342 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: that I was reading from New Scientists actually, like I 343 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: was kind of getting the impression that maybe the editor 344 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: at New Scientists is like pounding the desk that I 345 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,679 Speaker 1: need more vacuum airship stories. But one of them was 346 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: from two thousand and nine by Paul Collins, titled The 347 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: Rise and Fall of the Metal Airship, which is ultimately 348 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: about metal airships in general and not just the vacuum 349 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: airship concept. But he mentions this experiment, writing quote, Otto 350 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: von Gerriki had drawn together small copper hemispheres with such 351 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: a strong vacuum that teams of horses could not pull 352 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: them apart. But you mentioned some other things of note here. 353 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: Collins also writes that the concept of a vacuum airship 354 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: appears in a German interplanetary travelogue of seventeen forty four, 355 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:36,679 Speaker 1: envisioning trips to Mars. So another example of something ultimately 356 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: far earlier than I would have had guessed it. If 357 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: I was to guess, well, when were people first thinking 358 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: about vacuum airships in the atmosphere of Mars, I would 359 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: not have gone with the mid seventeen hundreds. Right now 360 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: is a brief detour. I want to touch on another 361 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: thing that Collins mentions here to get to the title 362 00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: of his paper. There actually was eventually a metal non 363 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 1: vacuum airship, and this was in eighteen ninety seven. The 364 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: first one was a thirty eight meter airship designed by 365 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: David Schwartz and helped into the sky by the Prussian 366 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: Airship Battalion, and it was It was blimp shaped, but 367 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 1: its skin was riveted aluminum plates, and it traveled about 368 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: six kilometers total before it stopped. They put the brakes 369 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,919 Speaker 1: on and it caused the thing to crumble due to 370 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: its rigid construction. But the advantage of a fully functional 371 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,680 Speaker 1: metal airship would be speed, though, so the idea didn't 372 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: go completely away, and in nineteen twenty nine, good Year's 373 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: original airship designer Ralph Ubson quote formed the Metal Clad 374 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: Airship Corporation to build an aluminum clad helium airship, the 375 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: ZMC two for the US Navy. Although notoriously difficult to handle, 376 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 1: the quote unquote ten Bubble as it was dubbed, could 377 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: reach a speed of one hundred kilometers an hour and 378 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: it put in twenty two one hundred flight hours before 379 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: it was decommissioned in nineteen forty one, and that was 380 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: it for metal airships that was the last one that 381 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: took to the skies here on Earth. And yeah, that 382 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: was the Detroit ZMC two Angel. I include a picture 383 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 1: of it here for you. If one was looking at 384 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: you might not guess that what you're looking at is 385 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: a metal structure, aluminum clad helium airship. 386 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 3: That I mean, if I've ever seen a tin bubble, 387 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 3: that is the ten bubble. But to clarify again the 388 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 3: actual examples we've just been talking about that people got 389 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 3: up in the air flying, even if they were even 390 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 3: if they failed early on, these were not vacuum airships. 391 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 3: These were airships that you even though they had rigid 392 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 3: outer hulls, they did use some form of gas inside. 393 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So ultimately, as we'll discuss, the vacuum airship 394 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: is still a concept that individuals are still chasing today. Now, 395 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,719 Speaker 1: coming back to Lana's book here, another important connection here 396 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: would be to Robert Boyle's work proving that air has weight. Essentially, 397 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,479 Speaker 1: it was proven that all of the atmosphere could be 398 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: mechanically drawn out of a volume. Maybe the nature didn't 399 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: abhor a vacuum quite as much as previously supposed. And 400 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: Lina is taking the next step by speculating one exciting 401 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 1: way that such a vacuum could be made to work 402 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 1: for us. So what Lna does here is he basically 403 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: applies what was known at the time regarding the nature 404 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 1: of air, vacuum and cylinders to devise a means by 405 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: which first vacuum spheres would be made that would float 406 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: up through the air, and secondly that with enough vacuum 407 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: you could also float a vessel. So he proposed a 408 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: vessel consisting of a basket with a sail and rudder, 409 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: held aloft by four large twenty five foot spheres made 410 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: of thin copper sheeting and bound together by rigging. This 411 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: was of course, never actually built, but there have been 412 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: various illustrations of what this would have looked like. I 413 00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 1: included one here for you, Joe. 414 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 3: It looks positively whimsical. Why does it have an ore? 415 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 3: I guess that's some kind of rudder. 416 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,159 Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, this is some sort of rudder device to 417 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: steer it. 418 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 3: Though it really does look like a paddle for the air. 419 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: Now again, Now again, Lana was a very serious individual, 420 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 1: so he's not just dreaming here. He's applying what was 421 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: known about the atmosphere and current understanding of physics, and 422 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: so he was serious about the underlying principles at work here. 423 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: So he discusses not only how this concept might work, 424 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: but he also gets into some of the objections to it. 425 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: For instance, do you might ask, well, wouldn't this just 426 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 1: float up into outer space until the people aboard died 427 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: and it would just be completely uncontrollable. Well, he describes 428 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: how controlling the air vacuum levels would allow you to 429 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 1: make adjustments and keep yourself from just floating up to 430 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 1: heights altitudes beyond which you had intention of traveling to. 431 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 3: Right, So, I guess the fear is that, you know, 432 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,239 Speaker 3: if the vacuum is potent enough that it would just 433 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 3: float you up to the top of the atmosp sphere 434 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 3: and you'd sit on it like a boat floats on 435 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,439 Speaker 3: top of the water. Now, of course, you have to 436 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,719 Speaker 3: remember that even the wa a vacuum chamber would have 437 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 3: buoyancy within the atmosphere. It also, again, there is weight, 438 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 3: you know, there is weight made up of the shell 439 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 3: surrounding the chamber and the boat and all that, So 440 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 3: that would counterbalance that to some extent. But then also, yeah, 441 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 3: the other thing is that you could control altitude just 442 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 3: by allowing some amount of gas back into these partial 443 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 3: vacuum chambers, and then so that would help you sink 444 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 3: back down and then if you want to float up again, 445 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,880 Speaker 3: you would once again pump that gas out. 446 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, the big problem here, of course, is the 447 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: notion of containing that vacuum. The big question would be 448 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 1: wouldn't it crush the copper spheres that are containing that 449 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: vacuum or you know, that are allowing the whole system 450 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 1: to supposedly float to begin with. And the correct answer 451 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: we know now is yes, it would have just crushed 452 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: those spheres. But at the time Lana contended that no, 453 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: this is the perfect shape of the sphere would hold 454 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: to the equal pressure of the vacuum within it. Again, 455 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: we know now this wouldn't work, but his hypothesis was 456 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: that it could possibly function. 457 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 3: Right, So, I guess here you're getting into the idea 458 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,479 Speaker 3: of a balancing act, right, so that you can of 459 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 3: course create a pretty pretty strong vacuum within a sealed 460 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 3: chamber without the weight of the atmosphere crushing it, just 461 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 3: you know, turning smashing that chamber like a tin can. 462 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 3: But in order to do that, you have to make 463 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 3: the outsides of the chamber pretty darn strong, and in 464 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 3: order to make them that strong, you have to add 465 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 3: more and more weight to the chamber, thus counteracting the 466 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 3: buoyancy effect of the vacuum within. 467 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: Right, So you're chasing the buoyancy here, and can you 468 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: achieve it without adding so much metal that you lose 469 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: any buoyancy you might be seeking after? And can you 470 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: make the materials thin enough without just causing it to 471 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,400 Speaker 1: collapse anyway? And this will remain important when we get 472 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: into subsequent attempts to make this hypothesis and or a reality. 473 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: But here's another little bit of interesting, ultimately speculation by 474 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: Lana on the use of aerial technology, because he ends 475 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 1: up concluding in the book that God would never allow 476 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: such a vessel to actually be built, as it could 477 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 1: then be used to attack cities and towns from above, 478 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: and that there would be absolutely no stopping such vessels. 479 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: So you know, God would just shut that down. It 480 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: would be like a tower of Babbel situation. 481 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 3: Oh, this theological prediction must have been very well vindicated 482 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,439 Speaker 3: then when later people came along, I think Leibniz was 483 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 3: one of them, showing that like no materials we know 484 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 3: about are strong enough to make this work. 485 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, but again, this idea of aerial dominance seat that 486 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: would be possible in a military situation, to a large 487 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: extent line was correct here about just how devastating this 488 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: would be because, of course, during World War One, Zeppelin 489 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: served as the world's first long range bombers, though their 490 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: dominance would be short lived due to their weakness versus 491 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: interceptor aircraft. But aerial bombardment would indeed be a defining 492 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: factor of warfare from the twentieth century onward. 493 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, the invention of air power, I guess I would 494 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 3: say airpower, along with like long range artillery, completely changed 495 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 3: war in the twentieth century. 496 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: Now, on that note, let's move to the next chapter 497 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: in our history of the vacuum airship or our pursuit 498 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: of the vacuum airship, because this will take us to 499 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: the late nineteenth century right up until the dawn of 500 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: the twentieth century. Because there was at least one spirited 501 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: individual who thought, yes, the vacuum airship can work, it 502 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: will work, and that is one author Debas Set and 503 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: this is detailed in Balloons to Jets, A Century of 504 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: Aeronautics in Illinois eighteen fifty five through nineteen fifty five 505 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: by one Howard L. Scame Horn so author debasit here 506 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: was a Chicago doctor who quote designed an electorally powered 507 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: vacum balloon which he intended to use for transporting passengers 508 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: and freight over vast distances at high speeds. And this 509 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: is described as an air tight tube cone shaped at 510 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: either end, and it was going to be made of 511 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: thin steel sheets and it would stay aloft when all 512 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: of the air had been pumped out of it. And 513 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: again it would be used for high speed transportation of 514 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: passengers and freight, presumably from Chicago two other important cities. 515 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 3: I mean, if you can create that without the atmosphere 516 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 3: crushing it, good on you. But I am doubtful. 517 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. And so at this point you might think, okay, 518 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: Chicago doctor daydreaming about his airships. Well, no, he went 519 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: a step further. The good doctor actually organized a company 520 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: with three associates, the Aerial Navigation Company of Chicago, and 521 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: they raised one hundred and thirty thousand dollars at the 522 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: time through the sale of stock to construct one of 523 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: the ships. So already it's sounding a bit more like 524 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: a legitimate effort now, right, And there's more when they 525 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: hadn't produced anything with these funds. They turned to Congress 526 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 1: for more funds and funding. Bills were introduced in both 527 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: houses of Congress by then a representative Ransom W. Dunham 528 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: of Chicago, and there was apparently some traction or momentum here, 529 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: but both bills failed to pass. 530 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 3: Why does this sound like something that should be associated 531 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 3: with the Chicago World's Fair. 532 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: I know, I was thinking of the same thing, you know, 533 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: and I guess to a certain extent, we are talking about, 534 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: you know, some of the same sort of you know, 535 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: futuristic technological optimistic ideas that were circulating at the time. 536 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: You know, we have the technology, but we can do this. 537 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: We can make these airships of reality and they're going 538 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: to fundamentally change the way we travel and the way 539 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: we move cargos. This is great, Let's do it. Let's 540 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: get the funding. Okay, well, maybe we need a little 541 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: more funding. Let's get Congress on the Horn. 542 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, it really it sounds like there should be a 543 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 3: chapter about the fact humorship and devil in the White City. 544 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, Skamehorn writes that the fight for the Chicago 545 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: Void Vessel here went on for a good twenty years 546 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: up until the dawn of the new century with the 547 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: debasit trying in vain to raise enough money to build 548 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: one of these ships, all the while dealing with scientific 549 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: critics that he just insisted would be proved wrong if 550 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: they would just let him build one. He was like, look, 551 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: just fund it, Just let me build one, and then 552 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: you'll see, you'll see that this is possible. But it 553 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: sounds like the real nail in the coffin was that 554 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: one of a couple of leading US aeronautical authorities of 555 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: the time, Octave Cheneu and Albery Francis Zahm, quote publicly 556 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: denounced and mathematically prove the fallacy of the vacuum principle. 557 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 3: Now, I don't know the basis of the fallacy they're 558 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 3: talking about there, but I would have to assume that 559 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 3: again it's going to be it's going to be rooted 560 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 3: in the lack of a material strong enough and light 561 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 3: enough to create this kind of vacuum shell. That if 562 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 3: you're going to create a rigid shell to contain a vacuum, 563 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 3: the atmosphere is always going to crush it unless you 564 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 3: make it so thick and so heavy that it that 565 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 3: it again outdoes the buoyancy effect of the vacuum and 566 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 3: makes it unable to fly. 567 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: Right, yeah, I mean that has always been and still 568 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: is largely the Achilles heel of the whole concept. By 569 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: the way, that same book also reveals that during this 570 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,719 Speaker 1: same time period there was at least one other Illinois 571 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: based inventor trying to raise funds for an airship. It 572 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: wasn't a vacuum airship, but still airships were very much 573 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: on the brain. And it does sound like, yeah, that 574 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: the people of the White City at the time were 575 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: sharing some of the same dreams for what the future 576 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: of air travel looked like. 577 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 3: What if HH Holmes, instead of operating like a murder hotel, 578 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 3: had operated a murder airship. 579 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: God, a good movie, pitch, We haven't had a I 580 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 1: don't think we've had a good airship movie recently. Right, 581 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 1: it could be like a haunted airship or a murder airship. 582 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 3: I can't think of one. I think of that scene 583 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 3: in Indiana Jones in the Last carse that's about it. 584 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there was. There was another one. 585 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 3: When he punches the Nazi out of the window no ticket. 586 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a and that had some some 587 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 1: very neat scenes with the Zeppelin. There there was also 588 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: a movie called Zeppelin that had Michael Yorck in it. 589 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: This would have come out in nineteen seventy one, and 590 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: I remember seeing bits of this. I don't think I've 591 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: watched it in its entirety, but I remember catching bits 592 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 1: of it on like America Movie Classics or something, and 593 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 1: him being impressed by some of the scenes of people 594 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: aboard these these airships. All right, well, let's take things 595 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: into the twenty first century. Another New Scientist article. Again, 596 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: New Scientist is your go to place for articles about 597 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: vacuum airships. Noted science writer Philip Ball discussed in a 598 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,800 Speaker 1: New Scientist article titled flying on Empty from twenty nineteen, 599 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: and as Ball discusses, yeah, this idea has never quite 600 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: gone away, in part because if it could be pulled 601 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,800 Speaker 1: off again, you don't need hot air or flammable hydrogen 602 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 1: or precious helium to keep the ship afloat. It's not 603 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 1: about pump putting something in. It's about just taking atmosphere out. 604 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: And if you could only figure out the materials problem, 605 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: then you know the world is your oyster. 606 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 3: And again, the materials problem is designing an outer shell 607 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 3: that would be strong enough to withstand the atmospheric pressure 608 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 3: trying to crush it in, but also light enough to 609 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 3: stay afloat right. 610 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: And of course, as we get into the modern era, 611 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: we're in this age of special nanomaterials and new ways 612 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: of looking at how these materials can be put together. 613 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 1: And of course this has led to a number of 614 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: ideas that haven't been possible yet. We've been able to 615 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: look to the future and say, well, what might we 616 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 1: be able to do if we can just create something 617 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 1: that's strong and flexible enough, you know, space elevators can 618 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 1: become a reality then, as well as things potentially like 619 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 1: the vacuum airship. And so Ball mentions an individual by 620 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 1: the name of Ben Jenett, who at the time of 621 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,320 Speaker 1: publication was working on his doctorate at the Massachusetts Institute 622 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: of Technologies Center for Bits and Atoms, and Genet devised 623 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,959 Speaker 1: the use of lightweight quote unquote lattice materials to make 624 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: the shell of a vacuum ship possible. So Ball points 625 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 1: out that Genet calculated that even with currently available materials, 626 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: a shell with a thickness one tenth of the radius 627 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: of the sphere it contains would be able to withstand 628 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 1: the air pressure without buckling, and this would then have 629 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 1: to be covered with a thin, impermeable skin. Genet's idea 630 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 1: would also involve creating the vacuum at a higher altitude, 631 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 1: which I thought was interesting where air pressure is lower 632 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 1: and so you would have some I think what it 633 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: was discussed here is solar powered hot air would be 634 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,799 Speaker 1: used to allow the vessel to rise up to that 635 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: initial altitude, and then you would begin the vacuum process 636 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,880 Speaker 1: when it's easier to pull that off, and then you 637 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 1: would have a theoretical operating altitude of something like twenty 638 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: thousand meters or sixty five six hundred and sixteen feet. 639 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 3: Okay, so that makes sense. Up at a higher altitude, 640 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 3: the air pressure is going to be reduced, which means 641 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 3: there's less crushing force on the outside of the chamber. 642 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's my understanding here. So Ball points out 643 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,879 Speaker 1: the Gendit and his collaborators here were in at least 644 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: we're in perhaps still are in contact with Boeings Aurora 645 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,760 Speaker 1: Flight Sciences on the concept, and then an Italian company 646 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,800 Speaker 1: called oh Boot was also looking into vacuum ship ideas. 647 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: Ball reported that while most of the emphasis was on 648 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: shipping with these modern concepts, the idea of at least 649 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 1: some level of human travel wasn't beyond possibilities as well, 650 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,359 Speaker 1: at least for short jaunts. And again you come back 651 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: to this sort of the romanticism of airships. I can 652 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,760 Speaker 1: imagine where this would be the case. 653 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 3: Well, one thing you mentioned that operating altitude you said, 654 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 3: twenty thousand meters or like sixty five thousand feet, is 655 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 3: well above the normal operating altitude of fixed wing aircraft. 656 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 3: So I wonder what does it look like once you 657 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 3: get up that high? Are you starting to get into 658 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 3: like looking at seeing the curve of the Earth territory? 659 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 3: I don't know. 660 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like a situation where you could easily 661 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 1: get into this area where you're pretty selling the tickets 662 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,839 Speaker 1: to celebrities and so forth, kind of like we've seen 663 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: with these other high altitude flight near space travel scenarios. 664 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 1: So I don't know. It'd be interesting to see where 665 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 1: things go in the decades ahead, But I wouldn't be 666 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: surprised at all to see one of these concepts sort 667 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,840 Speaker 1: of come to fruition in at least in that scenario. 668 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 1: But I know when it happens, I'll be able to 669 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 1: turned a new scientist to read an article. 670 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 3: About it for all your nullship needs. 671 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: Yes. 672 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 3: So one thing I looked into is that vacuum airships 673 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:15,839 Speaker 3: have also been proposed in various ways for exploring other planets, 674 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,880 Speaker 3: particularly Mars. I think there have been a few ideas 675 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:21,840 Speaker 3: along these lines, but the main one I was reading 676 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 3: about was linked to a U T. Austin aerospace engineering 677 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 3: professor named John Paul Clark, who I think until just 678 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 3: recently was here in town at Georgia Tech. But Clark 679 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:39,319 Speaker 3: and colleagues submitted a paper that I saw published under 680 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 3: the NASA Innovative Advanced Concepts Program or in IAC. This 681 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 3: was a Phase one proposal called Evacuated Airship for Mars missions. 682 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 3: And I was reading about this in another summary that 683 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 3: Clark had prepared that's hosted on the NASA website, and 684 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 3: he makes some interesting points. One funny thing is that 685 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 3: advanced project briefs like this always have the obligatory section 686 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,759 Speaker 3: where they rag on whatever technology we're currently using. So 687 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,840 Speaker 3: this one takes a few good wax. At ground based 688 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 3: rovers on Mars, it's like you know, rover with wheels. 689 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,440 Speaker 3: You can fall in a ditch, you can get stuck, 690 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,879 Speaker 3: you know, and it's got limited line of sight, can't 691 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 3: see over mountains. Theres a lot of problems with ground 692 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,240 Speaker 3: based rovers. You know what would be better a rover 693 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 3: that could fly, But of course it's going to be 694 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 3: very hard to fly on Mars. And here's where a 695 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 3: vacuum airship could come in. Obviously, a vacuum airship would 696 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,239 Speaker 3: be useful in planetary explorations for some of the same 697 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 3: reasons it would be useful on Earth. You get the 698 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:43,400 Speaker 3: general transportation efficiency benefits of air travel without having to 699 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,239 Speaker 3: rely on a fixed supply of low density gas like 700 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 3: hydrogen or helium. To keep a vacuum airship afloat, you 701 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 3: don't need a supply of gas. Technically, all you need 702 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 3: is power like electricity to operate a pump that will 703 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 3: continuously evacuate gas particles from the inner void. Now, Clark 704 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,799 Speaker 3: points out that there is a good reason what we've 705 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,879 Speaker 3: never developed a vacuum airship for use on Earth. It's 706 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 3: the same reason we've been talking about already. There is 707 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 3: no homogeneous material yet discovered that is strong enough to 708 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 3: be completely evacuated and withstand the crushing pressure of Earth's atmosphere, 709 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,840 Speaker 3: at least not without the structure becoming too heavy to float. 710 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:30,359 Speaker 3: Earth's air is cruel to vacuum airships. But Clark argues that, 711 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,799 Speaker 3: based on his team's calculations, not only is this not 712 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 3: true on Mars, the atmosphere of Mars is kind of 713 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 3: an ideal environment for a vacuum airship. Now this immediately 714 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 3: went against my intuitions, because before I really reasoned it 715 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 3: through and read the argument here, I would have thought, well, okay, 716 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 3: the atmosphere of Mars is much less dense than Earth's atmosphere. 717 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 3: The average surface density is something like zero points zero 718 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 3: two kilograms per cubic meter. Compare that to Earth's, which 719 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 3: is more like one point two kilograms per cubic meter. 720 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,759 Speaker 3: So Earth's is a couple of orders of magnitude greater 721 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 3: in density than the Martian atmosphere. Martian atmosphere is very thin, 722 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 3: and of course a balloon floats by having contents that 723 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,359 Speaker 3: are less dense than the atmosphere. So in an atmosphere 724 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:23,200 Speaker 3: with lower basically in a thinner atmosphere, I would have 725 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 3: assumed it's got to be harder for a balloon to float. 726 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:29,160 Speaker 3: But here is where I would have been wrong. Of Course, 727 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,239 Speaker 3: a vacuum is always less dense than even a very 728 00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 3: thin atmosphere, so if it can be contained and it 729 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,920 Speaker 3: displaces more atmosphere than the weight of the craft itself 730 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:41,839 Speaker 3: than the weight of the shell and the payload, it 731 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,799 Speaker 3: will float. The real benefit of Martian atmosphere is in 732 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 3: its pressure to density ratio, so the main constituent of 733 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:55,279 Speaker 3: Martian air is carbon dioxide. Unlike on Earth, which has 734 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:59,440 Speaker 3: mainly nitrogen and oxygen. At a molecular level, carbon dioxide 735 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:04,080 Speaker 3: is dense than nitrogen and oxygen, and the cold temperatures 736 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,320 Speaker 3: on Mars also help make that CO two even denser. 737 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,400 Speaker 3: You're probably familiar with the idea that hot gas expands, 738 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 3: cold gas contracts, and yet at the same time, a 739 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,280 Speaker 3: cool advantage of Mars is that there is far less 740 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 3: atmospheric pressure pressing on the outer shell of the airship, 741 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,400 Speaker 3: so you should be able to construct a vacuum envelope 742 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,359 Speaker 3: that can stand up to the weight of the atmosphere 743 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:33,239 Speaker 3: on Mars without buckling, using a design that is still 744 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,279 Speaker 3: light enough to float. To read a section from the 745 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:40,799 Speaker 3: NIAC paper quote, Mars having the most suitable atmosphere for 746 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,200 Speaker 3: the vacuum airship is quite remarkable since the Martian atmosphere 747 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:48,120 Speaker 3: is a severe detriment to all other flight vehicle designs. 748 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 3: So you know, you try to do like a fixed 749 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,000 Speaker 3: wing aircraft on Mars, that's going to be really hard. 750 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:57,280 Speaker 3: Continuing the quote, the Martian atmosphere is comprised almost entirely 751 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:01,760 Speaker 3: of carbon dioxide, so vehicles cannot use typical combustion fuels, 752 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:07,200 Speaker 3: which require an atmospheric oxidizer. Glider, plane and helicopter designs 753 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,759 Speaker 3: are all hindered by the atmosphere of Mars due to 754 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:14,080 Speaker 3: the low Renolds number and relatively low density. Additionally, the 755 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 3: vacuum airship provides benefit over other airship designs and super 756 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:23,280 Speaker 3: pressure balloons because of the inherent robustness of the design. Moreover, 757 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,920 Speaker 3: if damage is sustained, the vacuum airship can land be 758 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 3: repaired and then re evacuate to resume operation, whereas another 759 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,759 Speaker 3: airship would need to be refilled with a lighter than 760 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:38,400 Speaker 3: air gas. Therefore, the evacuated airship design thrives in an 761 00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:43,080 Speaker 3: environment where most other aircraft are added disadvantage, and in 762 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:46,040 Speaker 3: this paper, Clark and colleagues claim to have already modeled 763 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,320 Speaker 3: the design that should be able to carry a payload 764 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:53,120 Speaker 3: of five hundred kilograms in Martian air, and that weight 765 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,120 Speaker 3: they say could be increased with further design improvements. 766 00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,680 Speaker 1: So the argument here is that not only is it 767 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:02,400 Speaker 1: a situation where to make to make our vacuum airship 768 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 1: dreams possible, we must go to Mars, it's instead, no, 769 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,600 Speaker 1: that makes this the concept, that makes this the design 770 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:10,719 Speaker 1: that makes the most sense on Mars if we're gonna 771 00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:12,200 Speaker 1: have anything flying around. 772 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,360 Speaker 3: Right, that's their argument. And I don't know if this 773 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,799 Speaker 3: has ever made it beyond this phase one or phase 774 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,880 Speaker 3: two proposal level, So I'm not aware of any evidence 775 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,720 Speaker 3: that this is actually like being developed for Mars missions. 776 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,720 Speaker 3: But at least the initial case they make is really interesting, 777 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,880 Speaker 3: and I wonder if anybody's going anywhere else with it, 778 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:33,080 Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm certainly intrigued. So Earth, with its thick atmosphere, 779 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:37,040 Speaker 3: may well hate vacuum airships. It may just forever crush them. 780 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,240 Speaker 3: Maybe there's no way we could really design one that 781 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,000 Speaker 3: would feasibly work on Earth, but Mars may be a 782 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,239 Speaker 3: completely different story. That thinner atmosphere may be just the 783 00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,160 Speaker 3: place to make this dream a reality. 784 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:50,640 Speaker 1: Now, of course, this all brings to mind a previous 785 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,840 Speaker 1: episode of the show that we did titled Airships over Venus, 786 00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:59,440 Speaker 1: which discusses the hypothetical use of airships in the oppera 787 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,440 Speaker 1: atmosphere of Venus, at least for unmanned craft, but also 788 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,640 Speaker 1: in some of the more extreme and fantastic concepts that 789 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,800 Speaker 1: have been discussed in some of the literature. The idea 790 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:14,120 Speaker 1: that you could potentially have a human being travel to 791 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,440 Speaker 1: the upper atmosphere of Venus and be inside a specially 792 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:18,400 Speaker 1: designed airship. 793 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:23,720 Speaker 3: I think one of the ideas for crude aircrafts there 794 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,719 Speaker 3: is literally that you could have the crew inside the 795 00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:31,520 Speaker 3: balloon because in the Venusian atmosphere, breathable air floats. 796 00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, looking around, I noticed that there have been 797 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,560 Speaker 1: some papers that have come out speculating about the use 798 00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:44,839 Speaker 1: of vacuum airships in the Venusian atmosphere, the upper atmosphere. 799 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,640 Speaker 1: So it looks like there at least are some individuals 800 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,640 Speaker 1: out there who are thinking about taking the vacuum concept 801 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:53,960 Speaker 1: to the upper atmosphere of Venus as well. 802 00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 3: You just hope it doesn't sink. Talk about heavy crushing atmospheres. 803 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:03,880 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, the Venusian atmosphere ultimately is an atmosphere that 804 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,000 Speaker 1: crushes everything all right. Well, on that note, we're going 805 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:08,640 Speaker 1: to go ahead and close out this episode, but we'd 806 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,279 Speaker 1: love to hear from everyone out there if you have 807 00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:14,759 Speaker 1: thoughts on vacuum airships or just airships in general, some 808 00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:20,960 Speaker 1: of these concepts we've discussed regarding the atmospheres of other worlds. 809 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,719 Speaker 1: Everything's fair game, right in, let us know what you think. 810 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,720 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. As always. Core episodes 811 00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:30,040 Speaker 1: of Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the podcast We Found, 812 00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:31,920 Speaker 1: and the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast feed Core 813 00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:35,640 Speaker 1: episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, Listener mail on Monday's short 814 00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,480 Speaker 1: form Artifact or Monster Fact on Wednesdays, and on Fridays, 815 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,239 Speaker 1: we do Weird How Cinema. That is our time to 816 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,759 Speaker 1: set aside most serious concerns and just talk about a 817 00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:43,480 Speaker 1: strange film. 818 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,879 Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Seth 819 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,439 Speaker 3: Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch 820 00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:51,759 Speaker 3: with us with feedback on this episode or any other, 821 00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:53,920 Speaker 3: to suggest a topic for the future, or just to 822 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,680 Speaker 3: say hello, you can email us at contact that Stuff 823 00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:05,560 Speaker 3: to Blow your Mind dot com. 824 00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,600 Speaker 2: Stuffed to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 825 00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:12,480 Speaker 2: more podcasts, from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 826 00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:28,360 Speaker 2: or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.