WEBVTT - Ben Gibbard 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:23.236 Pushkin. In September, Ben Gibbard, the founder of Death Cab 0:00:23.396 --> 0:00:26.516 for CUTI, will set out on a nationwide tour to 0:00:26.596 --> 0:00:30.116 celebrate two very different albums that have come to define 0:00:30.276 --> 0:00:34.076 his career. Both albums came out in two thousand and three. 0:00:34.476 --> 0:00:36.436 The first was called Give Up, and it was a 0:00:36.476 --> 0:00:40.796 collaboration with his friend and producer Jimmy Tamborello. They'd made 0:00:40.796 --> 0:00:42.956 it while Gibberd was taking a break from the relentless 0:00:42.956 --> 0:00:46.796 cycle of touring and releasing music with Deathcab. They called 0:00:46.796 --> 0:00:50.836 their new band The Postal Service. Give Up steadily built momentum, 0:00:50.876 --> 0:00:56.956 found critical acclaim, and eventually became Gibberd's first platinum selling record. Musically, 0:00:57.036 --> 0:01:00.556 The Postal Service incorporated various synth and New Wave inspired 0:01:00.596 --> 0:01:05.396 elements behind Gibberd's confessional songwriting style, which set a precedent 0:01:05.476 --> 0:01:08.356 for many of the indie and electronic releases over the 0:01:08.396 --> 0:01:11.876 following days. Later that same year, Gibbert went back to 0:01:11.916 --> 0:01:16.636 his band roots and released Death Cab for Cuti's breakthrough album, Transatlanticism. 0:01:17.396 --> 0:01:20.996 This fall, Gibbert AND's band will play both Transatlanticism and 0:01:21.036 --> 0:01:24.876 Give Up in their entirety. For someone who listened to 0:01:24.916 --> 0:01:27.356 both of these records incessantly in two thousand and three 0:01:27.396 --> 0:01:30.076 and four. I'm excited to say he'll also play three 0:01:30.116 --> 0:01:33.636 acoustic conditions of songs from those classic records in this episode. 0:01:34.036 --> 0:01:36.596 In today's episode, I also talked to Ben Gibbert about 0:01:36.636 --> 0:01:39.036 the conditions that led to the most successful year of 0:01:39.036 --> 0:01:41.916 his career, and he gets candid about the woman who 0:01:41.956 --> 0:01:49.196 inspired multiple songs on Transatlanticism, including the brutally honest Tiny Vessels. 0:01:50.356 --> 0:01:53.596 This is broken record liner notes for the digital Age. 0:01:53.756 --> 0:01:58.636 I'm justin Mitchman. Here's my interview with Ben Gibbert. Man. 0:01:58.636 --> 0:01:59.476 Thanks for doing this. 0:01:59.796 --> 0:02:01.956 Oh dude, I'm stoked to be here. Thanks for having 0:02:01.996 --> 0:02:02.476 me man. 0:02:02.556 --> 0:02:05.436 I can't believe it's been twenty years since both of 0:02:05.476 --> 0:02:08.276 these records, Translanticism and the Postal Service Record. 0:02:08.836 --> 0:02:12.156 Yeah, time certainly seems to be moving quicker the older 0:02:12.196 --> 0:02:14.316 I get. I felt like just yesterday we passed the 0:02:14.356 --> 0:02:15.556 ten year anniversary. 0:02:16.036 --> 0:02:18.516 That really does feel like yesterday. That tour I went to, 0:02:18.596 --> 0:02:21.876 I saw that tour, and that feels literally like yesterday 0:02:22.076 --> 0:02:23.876 or a year ago or two, you know, not ten. 0:02:24.196 --> 0:02:24.436 Yeah. 0:02:24.436 --> 0:02:26.636 Well, I think we get a pass for the pandemic. 0:02:26.996 --> 0:02:29.436 I think I'm now referring to things that happened in 0:02:29.476 --> 0:02:31.676 my life as if they happened six months ago, but 0:02:31.716 --> 0:02:34.716 they happened in the fall of twenty nineteen. Time has 0:02:34.756 --> 0:02:37.556 become this very amorphous kind of element in my life 0:02:37.796 --> 0:02:39.676 since the pandemic, and I think that might be one 0:02:39.676 --> 0:02:41.796 of the reasons that ten years ago does feel like 0:02:41.796 --> 0:02:42.676 it wasn't that long ago. 0:02:42.956 --> 0:02:48.116 The funny thing is, for me was in hindsight understanding 0:02:48.116 --> 0:02:51.036 that you felt that this period of your life two 0:02:51.036 --> 0:02:54.116 thousand and three was also pretty special, because it was 0:02:54.156 --> 0:02:59.676 special for my relationship to your music. I had stray 0:02:59.836 --> 0:03:05.156 Death Cab tracks leading up to the Postal Service record release. 0:03:05.396 --> 0:03:07.636 But I remember my thirteenth birthday being under a record 0:03:07.636 --> 0:03:10.196 store and the guy being and like, you need to 0:03:10.236 --> 0:03:12.516 check out this Postal Service record. I've never heard of it. 0:03:12.596 --> 0:03:15.996 He goes, this is this is Ben Gibberd from Death 0:03:16.036 --> 0:03:18.836 Cab for CUTI I really okay, I'm ga and he's 0:03:18.836 --> 0:03:21.316 like yeah, and see he's got beats behind explained it 0:03:21.356 --> 0:03:22.716 to me and it's kind of like the weirdest thing, 0:03:22.916 --> 0:03:24.036 but he wouldn't let me leave. 0:03:24.356 --> 0:03:25.716 I think I bought something else just in case I 0:03:25.756 --> 0:03:27.276 didn't like it, but he wouldn't let me leave without 0:03:27.276 --> 0:03:30.356 also buying that. My mom gave me some money, bought it, 0:03:30.716 --> 0:03:34.116 took it home, put it on, and from those first 0:03:34.196 --> 0:03:38.076 opening chords of the District sleeps Alone, my mind was blown. 0:03:38.236 --> 0:03:40.916 It was hard to believe to process that it was 0:03:41.236 --> 0:03:45.356 you from Death Cab for Cutie making this kind of music. 0:03:46.036 --> 0:03:49.276 What were the first songs you wrote for that record? 0:03:49.596 --> 0:03:52.396 I think that the first thing we did might have 0:03:52.516 --> 0:03:54.996 been District sleeps Alone Tonight, the first song on the record, 0:03:55.596 --> 0:03:58.556 because the project had kind of come out of Jimmy 0:03:58.596 --> 0:04:02.076 and my collaboration for his record that he did under 0:04:02.076 --> 0:04:03.756 the name Didn't Tell, and he had a bunch of 0:04:03.836 --> 0:04:07.476 people doing guest vocals on it, and through a mutual friend, 0:04:07.596 --> 0:04:08.956 he got a hold of me and asked me to 0:04:08.996 --> 0:04:11.836 do a tune with him, and that went so well 0:04:11.876 --> 0:04:13.676 that we just kind of decided, like, well, why, yeah, 0:04:13.676 --> 0:04:14.836 do you want to do like an EP of this 0:04:14.996 --> 0:04:16.556 or like do some more songs. This was kind of 0:04:17.316 --> 0:04:21.956 relatively effortless and really fun, so I believe it was. 0:04:22.156 --> 0:04:25.116 I believe District was the first thing that he sent me, 0:04:25.876 --> 0:04:27.476 and yeah, we were just kind of off and running. 0:04:27.476 --> 0:04:27.636 You know. 0:04:27.716 --> 0:04:29.716 The interesting thing about give up to me is that 0:04:29.796 --> 0:04:32.196 there there weren't any other songs recorded for it. It 0:04:33.316 --> 0:04:36.196 was literally just those songs that we had were the record, 0:04:36.236 --> 0:04:38.836 and we were you know, I believe that we had 0:04:39.156 --> 0:04:42.236 signed to Subpop based off of that didn't tell song, 0:04:42.356 --> 0:04:45.356 and I believe the district sleeps Alone Tonight and maybe 0:04:45.436 --> 0:04:47.476 one other song like Sleeping In or something like that. 0:04:48.876 --> 0:04:51.716 But we we basically had a deal with Subpop before 0:04:51.756 --> 0:04:52.476 we had a record. 0:04:52.796 --> 0:04:55.196 Did you guys approach Subpop or did they just happened 0:04:55.196 --> 0:04:56.116 to hear some of this stuff? 0:04:56.996 --> 0:04:59.916 Well, Tony Kewell, who was doing an R for them 0:04:59.956 --> 0:05:01.716 at the time, who's now still with the company, but 0:05:01.796 --> 0:05:03.756 I think I believe he's a vice president or something. 0:05:04.516 --> 0:05:08.876 Jimmy and Tony had gone to Loyola University together and 0:05:08.916 --> 0:05:10.116 they DJs. 0:05:09.756 --> 0:05:12.556 At caxlun from Subpop, Yeah exactly. 0:05:12.636 --> 0:05:15.116 Yeah, So Tony had gotten word of the project from 0:05:15.236 --> 0:05:19.996 Jimmy just them being friends. And my understanding of it 0:05:20.276 --> 0:05:22.796 was that Tony took some of these early demos in 0:05:22.876 --> 0:05:26.276 and just said, hey, this is you know Ben from Deathcab, 0:05:26.396 --> 0:05:28.916 Jimmy from Dintel. They're doing a record, you know, should 0:05:28.916 --> 0:05:32.596 we put it out? And you know, everybody at least 0:05:32.676 --> 0:05:35.676 enough people agreed to say yes that we ended up 0:05:35.836 --> 0:05:38.476 signing with Subpop, So that was I mean, looking back 0:05:38.636 --> 0:05:41.236 on it as as I'm telling the story right now, 0:05:41.316 --> 0:05:43.716 it seems I still kind of can't believe that it 0:05:43.836 --> 0:05:47.996 happened that way. That's not how bands tend to get signed, right, 0:05:48.156 --> 0:05:50.676 I mean, maybe maybe more so now than before, in 0:05:50.756 --> 0:05:53.276 the sense that you can put out a song on 0:05:53.556 --> 0:05:57.196 band camp or on YouTube or SoundCloud or whatever, and 0:05:57.356 --> 0:06:00.236 somebody can find it and then it might end in 0:06:00.316 --> 0:06:02.876 some kind of record deal. But in two thousand and one, 0:06:03.356 --> 0:06:05.796 two thousand and two, that's not how shit went down. 0:06:06.356 --> 0:06:08.116 So you know, at that time, if you were in 0:06:08.156 --> 0:06:10.796 a band, you were playing show, you had a repertoire material, 0:06:10.876 --> 0:06:13.036 and maybe somebody from a label saw you and then 0:06:13.196 --> 0:06:14.636 we were like, you guys are great, we should do 0:06:14.676 --> 0:06:17.236 a record together. But it's almost as if the way 0:06:17.276 --> 0:06:20.756 the Pulservice ended up on Subpop, you know, is more 0:06:21.036 --> 0:06:24.036 the way in which maybe sometimes people get signed now 0:06:24.556 --> 0:06:25.876 than it was twenty years ago. 0:06:26.316 --> 0:06:28.956 Well, it's also like was way ahead of the way 0:06:28.996 --> 0:06:31.756 that people make music, you know, it's much more into 0:06:31.836 --> 0:06:35.356 the way people make music now. In two thousand and three, 0:06:35.476 --> 0:06:39.036 that record felt it felt like we hadn't heard anything 0:06:39.116 --> 0:06:41.596 like that record before, and then by like twenty ten, 0:06:41.756 --> 0:06:44.196 it felt like that was kind of the way a 0:06:44.316 --> 0:06:48.476 lot of people were making music, like like a singer songwriters, 0:06:48.476 --> 0:06:51.236 a lot of indie artists, there's electronic elements included. And 0:06:51.276 --> 0:06:53.156 then you guys were really kind of like ahead of 0:06:53.196 --> 0:06:56.236 that wave. I mean, there were people before, but to 0:06:56.316 --> 0:06:59.196 have done it as sort of as tastefully as you 0:06:59.236 --> 0:07:01.276 guys did it, I don't know that. I don't know 0:07:01.356 --> 0:07:02.276 that I had heard that really. 0:07:03.316 --> 0:07:07.076 Yeah, I think in some ways we were before our time, 0:07:07.596 --> 0:07:11.116 not in the sense that we were doing anything radically new, 0:07:11.916 --> 0:07:16.876 but that electro pop as a medium for indie rockers 0:07:16.956 --> 0:07:20.476 had not really come into fashion yet. And you know, 0:07:20.596 --> 0:07:22.756 when I think about give up and I think about 0:07:23.036 --> 0:07:26.916 influences going into it, I mean we were referencing depeche 0:07:26.996 --> 0:07:30.156 Mode and OMD and Yeahs and a lot of Human 0:07:30.236 --> 0:07:32.316 League like stuff that was we kind of grew up 0:07:32.356 --> 0:07:35.596 on as dudes who are now in our mid late forties, 0:07:35.836 --> 0:07:37.556 growing up in the eighties with this first kind of 0:07:37.676 --> 0:07:42.356 wave of post craftwork, kind of synthpop, where all of 0:07:42.436 --> 0:07:45.396 these kind of young people in the late seventies early 0:07:45.436 --> 0:07:48.076 eighties were realizing they could take this new technology and 0:07:48.196 --> 0:07:50.716 make pop songs out of it. And then, it seems 0:07:51.236 --> 0:07:53.076 from my perspective, and you know, there might be some 0:07:53.156 --> 0:07:54.996 listeners who would push back on this, I might not 0:07:55.076 --> 0:07:58.236 be entirely correct in this, but it felt like by 0:07:58.316 --> 0:08:01.596 the late nineties early aughts that electronic music had become 0:08:01.836 --> 0:08:05.276 very much like a connoisseur's music and like a process 0:08:05.516 --> 0:08:10.996 oriented underground music. There weren't a lot of people making 0:08:11.156 --> 0:08:14.716 pop songs with electronics at that point, at least not 0:08:15.436 --> 0:08:18.716 anywhere near even like what would be considered the mainstream 0:08:18.796 --> 0:08:22.156 of indie rock at that time. So I just kind 0:08:22.196 --> 0:08:24.476 of feel like we were in the right place at 0:08:24.516 --> 0:08:29.436 the right time, revitalizing a style of music that enough 0:08:29.476 --> 0:08:32.316 people were familiar with to make it feel like it 0:08:32.436 --> 0:08:36.356 was something that they could kind of understand fairly easily, 0:08:37.076 --> 0:08:39.476 but that had been out of the vocabulary long enough 0:08:39.556 --> 0:08:41.116 that it felt new and fresh. 0:08:41.396 --> 0:08:43.556 I would even say, because you're right, like when you 0:08:43.676 --> 0:08:46.156 referenced in like Human League and all those groups that 0:08:46.196 --> 0:08:49.156 I guess were influences on that project, But you know, 0:08:49.196 --> 0:08:52.276 there was a tenderness to it that I don't think 0:08:52.316 --> 0:08:54.836 i'd heard in like electropop before, and like a focus 0:08:54.956 --> 0:08:57.796 on songwriting that I don't know anywhere as in those 0:08:57.836 --> 0:09:01.676 other forms. It feels like the music wasn't just the 0:09:01.756 --> 0:09:04.076 track or just the production, but it was really focused 0:09:04.076 --> 0:09:05.916 around the production. And I don't know, I don't know 0:09:05.956 --> 0:09:08.796 if it's that it was a combination of Jimmy, who 0:09:08.956 --> 0:09:12.036 was sort of more the person who had produced the track, 0:09:12.196 --> 0:09:15.276 and you were more coming really from a songwriting from 0:09:15.316 --> 0:09:18.756 a band perspective. That really helped it fuse the two. 0:09:18.836 --> 0:09:20.716 But I don't know that i'd heard like electronic music 0:09:21.076 --> 0:09:23.476 in that way with the kind of that beautiful crafted 0:09:24.116 --> 0:09:24.876 song quality. 0:09:25.876 --> 0:09:28.756 Well, I appreciate you saying that, as I still keep 0:09:28.796 --> 0:09:31.716 coming back to my position that I just think that 0:09:31.836 --> 0:09:33.676 we were kind of the first people to kind of 0:09:34.116 --> 0:09:38.556 connect these two, Yeah, connect these dots like a confessional, 0:09:38.796 --> 0:09:42.076 kind of emotive style of songwriting that I guess now 0:09:42.156 --> 0:09:44.436 have become known for but certainly was kind of development 0:09:44.476 --> 0:09:47.476 at that point in my career, and then melding it 0:09:47.596 --> 0:09:49.876 with Jimmy's kind of sense of you know, give up 0:09:49.876 --> 0:09:52.396 as an avant garde record by any stretch of the imagination, 0:09:52.556 --> 0:09:57.156 but you know, Jimmy's coming from an experimental electronic background, 0:09:57.196 --> 0:10:00.116 but also with this kind of very great ear for 0:10:00.236 --> 0:10:02.836 pop songs. And you know, there are a couple of 0:10:02.876 --> 0:10:04.836 moments on the record that are a little bit kind 0:10:04.876 --> 0:10:06.316 of out there, but for the most part, it's a 0:10:06.356 --> 0:10:09.836 pretty straightforward pop record. And Jimmy gets a lot of 0:10:09.876 --> 0:10:11.996 that credit too, because he was sending me these things. 0:10:12.396 --> 0:10:15.156 Until I worked with Jimmy, I'd never collaborate with anybody 0:10:15.196 --> 0:10:18.716 in that fashion where somebody would send me music and 0:10:18.836 --> 0:10:23.436 I would write melody and lyrics and additional arrangement over 0:10:23.556 --> 0:10:27.156 top of it. At that time, I was very much 0:10:27.196 --> 0:10:30.116 priding myself and being like the songwriter in the band 0:10:30.436 --> 0:10:33.396 in Death Cabin, as a young person who was insecure, 0:10:33.996 --> 0:10:37.956 very kind of staunchly protective of my role in the 0:10:38.036 --> 0:10:40.556 band for fear that if anybody else were to write 0:10:40.556 --> 0:10:43.876 a note of it, then somehow I would cease being 0:10:44.636 --> 0:10:46.756 the song or in a band or whatever bullshit, that 0:10:47.076 --> 0:10:49.196 whatever kind of ridiculous position that I took at the 0:10:49.236 --> 0:10:52.636 time being a young insecure person. But with Jimmy, I 0:10:53.076 --> 0:10:57.156 found that, having had half the work done for me, 0:10:57.916 --> 0:11:00.116 I could merely just react to what I was hearing, 0:11:00.636 --> 0:11:02.596 so I would. You know, he would send me a 0:11:02.716 --> 0:11:05.876 CD with one or two instrumentals on it, and I 0:11:05.916 --> 0:11:10.036 would put it in a CD walkman, and just walk 0:11:10.116 --> 0:11:12.756 around Seattle for hours at a time, just kind of 0:11:12.836 --> 0:11:15.436 humming to myself. Or I might keep like a little 0:11:15.476 --> 0:11:18.036 notebook my pocket and write a lyric, idea down or whatever, 0:11:18.476 --> 0:11:19.756 and I would just kind of go for these long 0:11:19.796 --> 0:11:21.796 walks and just listening to these tracks over and over again, 0:11:22.316 --> 0:11:24.796 you know, having no way to record a melody, or 0:11:25.116 --> 0:11:26.756 I didn't have it. I didn't have an iPhone of course, 0:11:26.796 --> 0:11:29.636 so I couldn't just sing into the voice notes or whatever. 0:11:30.396 --> 0:11:32.076 But you know, the songs would I would just kind 0:11:32.076 --> 0:11:34.236 of react to what he was sending me in The 0:11:34.356 --> 0:11:37.956 imagery that the music kind of provided me became a 0:11:38.036 --> 0:11:41.476 fairly easy jumping off point to write the narrative of 0:11:41.516 --> 0:11:45.596 the song, which I found to be really liberating. It 0:11:45.676 --> 0:11:48.116 took me to some places lyrically that I'd not found 0:11:48.156 --> 0:11:52.556 myself in, and as I said, it was easier doing 0:11:52.636 --> 0:11:54.876 half the work, So you know, it just allowed me 0:11:55.596 --> 0:12:00.236 the space to be writing transit leenticism and also writing 0:12:00.476 --> 0:12:03.596 my half of give Up, because they weren't in conflict 0:12:03.636 --> 0:12:05.196 with each other. Like I was at home with a 0:12:05.276 --> 0:12:08.476 guitar trying to write songs for trans Lenticism or what 0:12:08.556 --> 0:12:11.436 would become Translanticism, and then I would get a CD 0:12:11.556 --> 0:12:13.396 in the mail from Jimmy on say a Thursday, and 0:12:13.516 --> 0:12:15.276 be like, oh cool, Jimmy sent me a song. Oh 0:12:15.276 --> 0:12:17.476 I'm gonna work on that today, and then I do that, 0:12:17.636 --> 0:12:19.076 and then I would go back on Friday and get 0:12:19.076 --> 0:12:21.116 back to working on the thing I was working on before. 0:12:21.956 --> 0:12:24.756 And was there any creative bleed between the two, Like 0:12:24.796 --> 0:12:26.756 I mean, as you were working on the both simultaneously, 0:12:26.876 --> 0:12:30.556 were you ever at a point conflating ideas or having 0:12:31.036 --> 0:12:33.036 stuff that you had written on say a Friday for 0:12:33.116 --> 0:12:35.716 Translanticism and by the next week you're working on some 0:12:35.756 --> 0:12:37.876 stuff with Jimmy and maybe that idea is going over 0:12:37.956 --> 0:12:41.436 there or was it pretty segmented in your brain? 0:12:41.636 --> 0:12:45.716 It was very segmented, probably because back to being like 0:12:45.796 --> 0:12:49.276 a young, insecure person. The guys in Deathcab knew I 0:12:49.396 --> 0:12:52.156 was doing this record with Jimmy, and it wasn't so 0:12:52.276 --> 0:12:57.036 much that I felt a conflict of interest, as much 0:12:57.076 --> 0:12:58.916 as I didn't want to give anybody in the band 0:12:59.516 --> 0:13:02.596 the idea that I was prioritizing a quote good idea 0:13:02.836 --> 0:13:06.676 unquote to this side project over my main band. So 0:13:07.516 --> 0:13:10.756 I lived in a particular kind of type of fear 0:13:11.396 --> 0:13:13.396 that I guess what I did want to do is 0:13:13.436 --> 0:13:15.196 turn in a bunch of demos to the Death Cab 0:13:15.276 --> 0:13:17.076 dudes and be like, here's what I've been writing recently, 0:13:17.716 --> 0:13:20.836 and have them fixate on one particular song and be 0:13:20.916 --> 0:13:22.956 like that one's the best one, and then for me 0:13:23.076 --> 0:13:26.076 to be like, oh, actually, now that one's off the table, 0:13:26.116 --> 0:13:27.676 because you know, I used a bunch of the lyrics 0:13:27.716 --> 0:13:30.476 for this post service song. So in order to not 0:13:31.276 --> 0:13:34.156 have that even be remotely an issue, I was only 0:13:34.396 --> 0:13:37.876 writing to the stuff that Jimmy was sending me and 0:13:38.036 --> 0:13:41.236 trying to allow those songs to be very kind of 0:13:41.516 --> 0:13:45.476 separate thoughts away from anything that I was doing writing 0:13:45.636 --> 0:13:47.436 for what would become Transatlanticism. 0:13:47.796 --> 0:13:50.876 And you felt like that that process did take you somewhere, 0:13:51.556 --> 0:13:54.956 segmenting the two writing processes between the Death Cab upcoming 0:13:54.996 --> 0:13:58.716 Death Cab record, Translanticism and the postal service stuff, and 0:13:58.756 --> 0:14:00.476 then only writing too Jimmy's track that took you to 0:14:00.556 --> 0:14:05.076 places lyrically you hadn't necessarily been or hadn't mind before. 0:14:05.756 --> 0:14:08.516 Yeah, I mean, I could never fathom writing a song 0:14:08.636 --> 0:14:13.516 like sleep In or Clark Gable for Death Cab, you 0:14:13.596 --> 0:14:15.996 know those songs in particular, But just something like sleeping 0:14:16.076 --> 0:14:18.396 In is kind of like a it's kind of an 0:14:18.436 --> 0:14:21.236 absurd thought, you know, it's kind of an absurd lyric, 0:14:21.516 --> 0:14:24.356 kind of a whimsical daydream of a lyric. 0:14:24.236 --> 0:14:27.476 That really resonated with the thirteen year old I'm telling, Oh, really, okay, 0:14:28.436 --> 0:14:29.876 that's what I was doing, was sleeping In. 0:14:30.476 --> 0:14:32.916 That's great, I'm glad to hear that. But it's that's 0:14:33.196 --> 0:14:36.036 I've realized. I've only realized I think I realized at 0:14:36.036 --> 0:14:38.716 the time, but I've definitely gotten an appreciation for it 0:14:38.796 --> 0:14:41.516 since then, that I never would have picked up a 0:14:41.596 --> 0:14:44.996 pen and wrote lyrics like I did for Sleeping In 0:14:45.756 --> 0:14:46.676 a top of anything. 0:14:46.716 --> 0:14:48.636 I'd be writing for Death Cab myself. 0:14:48.796 --> 0:14:51.476 So, you know, for whatever reason, kind of just the 0:14:51.596 --> 0:14:54.676 tone of what Jimmy was sending me allowed each song 0:14:54.756 --> 0:14:58.236 to be its own separate thought that could exist away 0:14:58.316 --> 0:15:00.916 from Death Cab and not kind of come into conflict 0:15:00.996 --> 0:15:02.756 creatively with what I was doing over here. 0:15:03.076 --> 0:15:05.636 What do you think lyric like what in Sleeping In? 0:15:05.956 --> 0:15:08.916 Or Clark Gable. What in those lyrics are so whimsical 0:15:08.956 --> 0:15:11.196 to that you couldn't have imagined, you know, those being 0:15:11.276 --> 0:15:12.436 Death Cab lyrics. 0:15:13.076 --> 0:15:18.156 I suppose it's because I couldn't see myself getting if 0:15:18.196 --> 0:15:20.036 I was sitting in this room with a guitar writing 0:15:20.076 --> 0:15:22.996 a song right now or it's not right now in 0:15:23.116 --> 0:15:25.716 two thousand and one or two thousand and two, and 0:15:26.436 --> 0:15:29.516 the idea came to me to write a song about 0:15:30.156 --> 0:15:33.516 recreating the best parts of a relationship as a way 0:15:33.636 --> 0:15:36.476 to kind of make one's self feel good about how 0:15:36.556 --> 0:15:39.236 the relationship had deteriorated, as is kind of the story 0:15:39.276 --> 0:15:42.236 of Clark Gable. That would seem to me to be 0:15:42.356 --> 0:15:46.476 a ridiculous thing to write a song about, especially given 0:15:46.716 --> 0:15:50.636 the kind of music that I was writing with Death Cab, 0:15:50.836 --> 0:15:54.076 which tended to be a lot sparser. 0:15:53.676 --> 0:15:55.316 A lot slower, you know. 0:15:55.396 --> 0:15:58.996 I remember turning in the demo for a sound of 0:15:59.036 --> 0:16:02.796 settling song on Translanticism, and it was a lot slower. 0:16:02.836 --> 0:16:05.716 It was kind of like bing bing bing bing bing 0:16:05.996 --> 0:16:08.356 bing bing, like kind of a more mid tempo maybe 0:16:08.436 --> 0:16:12.556 ninety BP kind of kind of vibe. Because I had 0:16:12.596 --> 0:16:16.556 this aversion towards fast songs I thought that songs that 0:16:16.636 --> 0:16:19.836 were like uptempo were not cool or something, And I 0:16:19.916 --> 0:16:23.116 suppose that was probably a result of kind of coming 0:16:23.196 --> 0:16:26.956 of age with slint and shipping news and codeine and 0:16:27.596 --> 0:16:30.756 low and kind of having the slow core kind of 0:16:31.276 --> 0:16:34.476 thing be a large part of my early musical vocabulary. 0:16:35.076 --> 0:16:37.596 That I thought that fast songs like weren't cool, So 0:16:38.676 --> 0:16:40.916 I would never felt have felt I would have been 0:16:40.916 --> 0:16:43.196 able to pull off a lyric like Clark Gable or 0:16:43.236 --> 0:16:45.756 Sleeping In because of just the tone of the lyric 0:16:46.236 --> 0:16:48.156 against the music that I was writing that was a 0:16:48.156 --> 0:16:52.236 little bit slower, sadder, sparser. A lyric like that would 0:16:52.276 --> 0:16:54.596 draw too much of attention to itself at ninety bpm. 0:16:55.356 --> 0:16:57.756 But when when it's like in kind of more of 0:16:57.836 --> 0:17:01.116 like a club banger, it might it might be equally 0:17:01.236 --> 0:17:05.396 kind of farcical, but at least there's other elements of 0:17:05.476 --> 0:17:06.276 the thing to focus on. 0:17:06.356 --> 0:17:09.756 If you think the lyrics suck, you know, no, I mean, 0:17:09.836 --> 0:17:13.476 it's really Clark Gable. I was listening to it again, 0:17:13.556 --> 0:17:16.836 obviously because we're going to be talking, and I was like, man, 0:17:16.956 --> 0:17:18.676 Clark Gabe, I'd never picked up on it, and I 0:17:18.716 --> 0:17:21.916 hadn't listen to the record, maybe since the last tenth anniversary, 0:17:21.996 --> 0:17:23.196 like in a real way where I was really sitting 0:17:23.196 --> 0:17:25.916 down to listen. But there's like a like a disco 0:17:26.116 --> 0:17:28.836 groove on the base going on Clark Gable. It's kind 0:17:28.876 --> 0:17:30.796 of like it. It's like absurd in a way, but 0:17:30.916 --> 0:17:34.876 it completely it all works. I love how eclectic the 0:17:34.956 --> 0:17:35.396 record is. 0:17:35.956 --> 0:17:39.036 Yeah, it's funny with that song. There's a good friend 0:17:39.076 --> 0:17:42.156 of mine named Thomas Moore who has a wonderful label 0:17:42.316 --> 0:17:45.436 in Berlin called More Music, and you know a lot 0:17:45.476 --> 0:17:47.436 of the stuff they were putting out in the turn 0:17:47.476 --> 0:17:51.716 of the century like Lollypuna, Miss John Soda, b Fleshman 0:17:51.716 --> 0:17:52.836 and a lot of this stuff that was kind of 0:17:52.876 --> 0:17:56.396 this like early melding of electronics in indie rock. And 0:17:57.036 --> 0:17:59.716 I remember when I first met Thomas, he was I 0:17:59.796 --> 0:18:01.716 believe he was friends with Jimmy or they knew each other. 0:18:02.476 --> 0:18:04.276 In his very German way, he was like, yeah, I 0:18:04.476 --> 0:18:06.836 listened to that Postal Sabas record and I hated that 0:18:06.956 --> 0:18:08.196 song clock Gable so much. 0:18:08.276 --> 0:18:08.996 I just hated it. 0:18:09.516 --> 0:18:11.796 And I was just like okay, man, like yeah, it's 0:18:11.836 --> 0:18:13.636 like any because it was so discally and like I 0:18:13.716 --> 0:18:17.436 didn't like it, and it was like and it's it's funny, 0:18:17.476 --> 0:18:19.516 how like whenever we play that song, I guess we 0:18:19.556 --> 0:18:21.756 haven't played it very often, but like when we were 0:18:21.876 --> 0:18:23.676 playing on the last tour, and we'll probably when we 0:18:23.756 --> 0:18:25.276 do in the next four I'll always kind of Thomas 0:18:25.316 --> 0:18:26.836 will always kind of pop up in my mind of 0:18:26.916 --> 0:18:29.516 his brutal honesty about what he thought about that song, 0:18:29.596 --> 0:18:32.436 because of everything about it is pretty over the top, 0:18:32.716 --> 0:18:33.996 you know, and it's like. 0:18:34.076 --> 0:18:36.076 Also not over the top, I don't know, but at 0:18:36.156 --> 0:18:37.516 least not by today's standards. 0:18:37.956 --> 0:18:41.876 No, not by today's standards, but you know, it's like 0:18:42.236 --> 0:18:45.236 there wasn't anything musically similar to it at the time. 0:18:46.036 --> 0:18:49.116 At least elements of that song had existed beforehand, as 0:18:49.156 --> 0:18:52.116 we've already discussed. But what I thought was so great 0:18:52.196 --> 0:18:55.036 about Jimmy sending that song and it was just like 0:18:55.396 --> 0:18:57.316 it was really just anything goes. I mean, there was 0:18:57.396 --> 0:19:00.236 no you know, we weren't making this record thinking that 0:19:00.316 --> 0:19:04.276 anybody was really gonna hear it, aside from the people 0:19:04.316 --> 0:19:06.516 who maybe were already fans of Jimmy's and people who 0:19:07.396 --> 0:19:10.196 were Deathcat fans. I might be curious about this project. 0:19:10.596 --> 0:19:14.276 But before you get the subpop deal, I mean was 0:19:14.316 --> 0:19:16.316 there a world where you were just doing this for 0:19:16.436 --> 0:19:18.876 fun and no one would have heard this, Like, was 0:19:19.396 --> 0:19:21.676 did you guys start collaborating with the idea that we 0:19:21.716 --> 0:19:24.316 will put something out or was it let's just have fun? 0:19:25.116 --> 0:19:25.676 I think. 0:19:25.836 --> 0:19:28.556 I mean, I've always been a pretty destination oriented person. 0:19:28.756 --> 0:19:31.996 So we were talking about initially like doing a couple 0:19:32.076 --> 0:19:33.556 more songs or an EP or something. 0:19:34.316 --> 0:19:34.476 You know. 0:19:34.516 --> 0:19:37.116 There were a couple of small labels that were around 0:19:37.436 --> 0:19:39.156 in our kind of circle of friends that were like, 0:19:39.196 --> 0:19:40.516 oh I put that out, Yeah, let us know if 0:19:40.516 --> 0:19:43.236 you want to put that out. So not that everything 0:19:43.276 --> 0:19:46.956 I've written has been written with the goal of releasing it, 0:19:47.036 --> 0:19:48.916 of course, like I've written way more music that hasn't 0:19:48.916 --> 0:19:52.916 been released than has. But at that time I certainly 0:19:53.036 --> 0:19:56.636 felt cocky enough to think that what we would be 0:19:56.756 --> 0:19:59.636 making would be good enough that somebody would want to 0:19:59.636 --> 0:20:01.796 put it out. And I guess at the time I 0:20:01.796 --> 0:20:04.236 didn't see the point in just making music with somebody 0:20:04.236 --> 0:20:06.436 else that without without the goal of having it be 0:20:06.516 --> 0:20:07.076 out in the world. 0:20:07.596 --> 0:20:08.996 Yeah, it just felt like, well, yeah, if we're making 0:20:09.036 --> 0:20:10.676 a record, let's make a record. You know, Let's let's 0:20:10.676 --> 0:20:10.836 do it. 0:20:10.956 --> 0:20:12.996 Let's let's go in with a goal in mind, and 0:20:13.076 --> 0:20:15.036 if we fall short of that goal, that's fine, but 0:20:15.116 --> 0:20:17.796 at least we weren't just, you know, dicking around. 0:20:18.436 --> 0:20:18.756 I don't know. 0:20:18.876 --> 0:20:22.756 I love playing music, I love writing music, but I'm 0:20:22.796 --> 0:20:25.156 I'm very I've always been in awe of people who 0:20:25.196 --> 0:20:28.996 are professional musicians who make music for fun, if this 0:20:29.156 --> 0:20:31.436 makes any sense, Like I remember we years ago we 0:20:31.516 --> 0:20:34.796 played Neil Young's Bridge School benefit and over and Gillian 0:20:34.836 --> 0:20:38.036 Welsh and David Rawlings, who are two of my favorite musicians, 0:20:38.156 --> 0:20:40.716 two of my favorite people. I love the records they 0:20:40.756 --> 0:20:42.276 were playing as well, and they were just off in 0:20:42.356 --> 0:20:45.196 the corner at a party, just playing music. 0:20:45.276 --> 0:20:48.156 The whole was this party at Neil's ranch. Yeah it's 0:20:48.236 --> 0:20:53.276 ranch amazing, like the pre Bridge School ranch party, yeah exactly. 0:20:53.316 --> 0:20:55.916 And they and they weren't playing music necessarily for anybody 0:20:55.996 --> 0:20:58.396 other than themselves and whomever might just kind of stumble 0:20:58.436 --> 0:21:00.916 into the room. And I just was really taken with that. 0:21:01.076 --> 0:21:02.476 And there was a part of me that wished I 0:21:02.516 --> 0:21:05.916 could have that relationship to music. But I've never had 0:21:05.956 --> 0:21:08.516 that relationship to it. It's always been a tool. It's 0:21:08.516 --> 0:21:11.716 always been a tool of expression and not necessarily something 0:21:12.396 --> 0:21:15.036 to do to past time. Or to like have fun, 0:21:15.236 --> 0:21:16.836 not to say that they don't have fun playing music, 0:21:16.876 --> 0:21:18.196 but if you and I were in a room and 0:21:18.316 --> 0:21:19.356 you're like, what do you want to do right now? 0:21:19.396 --> 0:21:20.436 It's like, I don't know, you want to play some 0:21:21.356 --> 0:21:24.076 Kinks songs, and I'd be like, no, let's do something else. 0:21:24.156 --> 0:21:26.116 I don't want to play somebody else's songs. You know 0:21:26.956 --> 0:21:29.356 that's because you don't consider yourself a guitar player, really, right, No, 0:21:29.476 --> 0:21:29.996 I do not know. 0:21:30.156 --> 0:21:32.636 I'm definitely not, which is probably which is crazy to me, 0:21:32.716 --> 0:21:34.716 but also it's probably why like that, I think that 0:21:34.916 --> 0:21:38.516 has to come from well maybe not, but primarily it 0:21:38.556 --> 0:21:40.676 seems in life that comes from the people who fancy 0:21:40.756 --> 0:21:42.316 themselves guitar players. 0:21:42.436 --> 0:21:45.836 You know, it might be Yeah, I also don't know 0:21:45.996 --> 0:21:46.876 a lot of songs. 0:21:47.236 --> 0:21:47.556 I don't. 0:21:47.756 --> 0:21:52.676 I know my songs, and then a handful of songs 0:21:52.756 --> 0:21:55.916 by some of my favorite bands or songwriters. But I'm 0:21:55.996 --> 0:21:58.916 really bad at knowing what the lyrics are to songs 0:21:58.916 --> 0:22:01.196 that I haven't written. I often get them wrong, even 0:22:01.236 --> 0:22:03.436 songs that have been my favorite songs since I was 0:22:03.436 --> 0:22:06.356 a teenager. Five or six years ago, I was making 0:22:06.396 --> 0:22:08.876 this record, I was covering all of teenage fan clubs 0:22:08.876 --> 0:22:11.476 band I can ask who are my favorite band? And 0:22:11.756 --> 0:22:14.556 this record, well, I don't think it's their best record, 0:22:14.636 --> 0:22:17.276 is my favorite of theirs because of where it came 0:22:17.316 --> 0:22:19.796 into my life at the time it did. And I 0:22:19.996 --> 0:22:23.996 was still like emailing Norman Blake from time to time 0:22:24.076 --> 0:22:25.796 asking him like, what is the lyric in that song? 0:22:25.876 --> 0:22:26.636 How does that one go? 0:22:27.596 --> 0:22:30.676 Because and I felt foolish even asking him because this 0:22:31.076 --> 0:22:32.756 I've been listening to this record at that point for 0:22:32.916 --> 0:22:37.076 over about, you know, thirty years, And I realized in 0:22:37.396 --> 0:22:40.156 attempting to play these songs that I didn't actually know. 0:22:41.756 --> 0:22:42.316 Many of them. 0:22:43.116 --> 0:22:44.436 I didn't know what the lyrics were, I didn't know 0:22:44.436 --> 0:22:45.116 what the chords were. 0:22:45.516 --> 0:22:47.716 So were you not like when you were first starting 0:22:47.796 --> 0:22:49.676 to write songs? Were you not? It seems like a 0:22:49.716 --> 0:22:52.436 lot of people the process of learning to write songs 0:22:52.556 --> 0:22:54.916 is like playing other people's songs and then like just 0:22:55.036 --> 0:22:57.876 modifying or making them your own, or modifying or changing 0:22:57.916 --> 0:22:59.636 a couple you know, like early on at least, was 0:22:59.676 --> 0:23:02.636 that not How you got into making music, was doing 0:23:02.716 --> 0:23:04.396 like covers and things a. 0:23:04.436 --> 0:23:06.276 Little bit, but it was, you know, it was like 0:23:06.756 --> 0:23:09.716 a high school band, like poorly trying to our bad 0:23:09.756 --> 0:23:13.516 brains pay to Come, or you know, some bad religion 0:23:13.636 --> 0:23:15.796 song or like a you know, whatever it was. 0:23:15.876 --> 0:23:16.676 It was that kind of shit. 0:23:16.756 --> 0:23:19.756 It was like nothing, you know, For whatever reason, I've 0:23:19.916 --> 0:23:23.156 never had this desire to pull songs. 0:23:22.876 --> 0:23:25.716 Apart and see how they work. Okay. It wasn't like 0:23:25.756 --> 0:23:27.836 I'm going to like learn Beatles core. 0:23:28.236 --> 0:23:30.076 Like yeah, I mean, I guess I did. When I 0:23:30.116 --> 0:23:32.436 was learning how to play guitar. I I taught myself 0:23:32.476 --> 0:23:35.956 from a Beatles fake book originally, and where you would 0:23:35.956 --> 0:23:38.156 have the picture of the chords of the chord and 0:23:38.236 --> 0:23:41.956 where I put your fingers and nine is like this, yeah, exactly, 0:23:41.996 --> 0:23:45.676 and these guys have really weird chords. So I guess, 0:23:45.716 --> 0:23:47.756 and I guess, I guess I'm lying a bit. I 0:23:47.796 --> 0:23:52.196 guess I did some of that, but it didn't it 0:23:52.236 --> 0:23:54.316 didn't feel as if I was doing it for educational 0:23:54.356 --> 0:23:56.356 purposes as much as I was. I just wanted to 0:23:56.476 --> 0:23:58.956 sing the song, yeah, you know, or I just I 0:23:59.076 --> 0:23:59.716 just wanted. 0:23:59.436 --> 0:24:00.356 To play guitar, you know. 0:24:00.556 --> 0:24:02.196 And I didn't have I hadn't writen any of my 0:24:02.236 --> 0:24:05.116 own songs, So I guess these Beatles songs will have 0:24:05.276 --> 0:24:07.876 to do, you know. I guess I guess here, there 0:24:07.876 --> 0:24:10.196 and everywhere will have to do you know, yeah, yeah, 0:24:11.556 --> 0:24:12.276 you talked. 0:24:12.076 --> 0:24:14.276 About well, well, first of all, before we go back 0:24:14.276 --> 0:24:17.396 into the records, tell me about the about Bridge School 0:24:17.396 --> 0:24:20.956 and about that that party at Neil's ranch beforehand. Being 0:24:20.996 --> 0:24:22.756 a person who's like, I'm not going to go off 0:24:22.916 --> 0:24:24.836 and play guitar on a corner, it feels like it 0:24:24.916 --> 0:24:28.436 feels very much like that's what's happening around that weekend. 0:24:28.516 --> 0:24:30.676 So was it like a weird thing to take part in? 0:24:31.036 --> 0:24:33.196 It was wild, I mean at that I think this 0:24:33.676 --> 0:24:37.196 was two thousand and six. So we we had in 0:24:37.276 --> 0:24:39.196 two thousand and four we had done some touring with 0:24:39.276 --> 0:24:42.956 Pearl Jam, and Neil had come out for some of 0:24:43.036 --> 0:24:47.756 those shows. And you know, this tour if people are 0:24:47.836 --> 0:24:49.916 not familiar with it, which of course why would they be. 0:24:49.956 --> 0:24:52.076 It was twenty years ago. It was called the Vote 0:24:52.116 --> 0:24:54.276 for Change Tour. And there are a number of kind 0:24:54.316 --> 0:24:59.516 of legacy acts and huge names, all descending upon swing 0:24:59.676 --> 0:25:02.956 states and playing a concert in a particular swing state 0:25:03.036 --> 0:25:07.476 on the same day. So Pearl Jam and you know us, 0:25:07.636 --> 0:25:10.316 we might be playing in Columbus. Uh, you know Ram 0:25:10.436 --> 0:25:13.836 and Bruce Springsteen are They're playing in Cincinnati. 0:25:14.436 --> 0:25:15.876 So and so is playing here, and so on and 0:25:15.956 --> 0:25:16.356 so forth. 0:25:16.476 --> 0:25:18.956 Right, so that was kind of the big voter registration drive, 0:25:19.116 --> 0:25:20.636 and you know, we were going to defeat Bush and 0:25:20.676 --> 0:25:23.516 everything else. And so that was the first my first 0:25:23.556 --> 0:25:26.836 experience or our first experience with being around like really 0:25:26.956 --> 0:25:30.916 famous musicians, and that was incredibly nerve racking at first, 0:25:31.436 --> 0:25:33.676 and we felt, you know, it's like very you know, 0:25:33.756 --> 0:25:36.276 being around somebody like Bruce Springsteen, even just for an 0:25:36.316 --> 0:25:38.676 hour at some kind of presser, was just like, holy shit, 0:25:38.756 --> 0:25:41.756 that's Bruce Springsteen, and be cool, man, don't don't ask 0:25:41.836 --> 0:25:42.476 him any dumb. 0:25:42.436 --> 0:25:42.916 Questions, you know. 0:25:43.636 --> 0:25:45.596 And so by the time we did Bridge School in 0:25:45.636 --> 0:25:47.796 two thousand and six, it wasn't as if being around 0:25:47.836 --> 0:25:51.076 people like that had certainly not become normal, but we 0:25:51.196 --> 0:25:54.796 were a little bit less self conscious and nervous. And 0:25:55.476 --> 0:25:57.276 it's not like we we certainly didn't feel like we 0:25:57.436 --> 0:26:01.036 belonged there, but that at least we realized that we 0:26:01.156 --> 0:26:04.916 were invited there, right, So people had invited us, they 0:26:05.036 --> 0:26:08.196 wanted us to be there, so it would be okay 0:26:08.316 --> 0:26:10.916 to go up to date role and like say hey man, 0:26:10.996 --> 0:26:13.956 how's it going, and not have him or anybody else 0:26:14.036 --> 0:26:15.596 be like I'm sorry, who do you think you are 0:26:15.836 --> 0:26:18.196 talking to me? You know, everybody was super specific thing 0:26:18.236 --> 0:26:20.476 that happened there, Like did you meet Dave Grohl there? 0:26:21.196 --> 0:26:21.316 Uh? 0:26:21.436 --> 0:26:23.596 Yeah, I met. I met Grole there. I met because 0:26:23.716 --> 0:26:26.036 that was really great. I mean, that was an incredible year. 0:26:26.076 --> 0:26:29.076 I think that year it was Neil of course, Pearl 0:26:29.196 --> 0:26:32.876 Jam Trent Reznor was played with a prepared piano and 0:26:32.996 --> 0:26:36.796 a string section. Brian Wilson played, I believe as well 0:26:38.436 --> 0:26:41.476 Foo Fighters. I might have mentioned Gil and Dave. I mean, 0:26:41.516 --> 0:26:44.076 it was just an unbelievable year and being at Neil's 0:26:44.076 --> 0:26:47.556 house insane For those who don't know, you know, these 0:26:47.676 --> 0:26:51.596 benefit shows they would occur at Shoreline Amphitheater, South San Francisco, 0:26:52.196 --> 0:26:54.836 but Neil the night before the first show would have 0:26:54.996 --> 0:26:57.076 a party at his ranch, which was way up in 0:26:57.116 --> 0:26:59.956 the mountains, and you would go down this single lane 0:27:00.076 --> 0:27:03.996 road you know, sheer drops to your death on one side, 0:27:04.436 --> 0:27:06.596 and you drive way out there and then that's then 0:27:06.876 --> 0:27:08.596 this is his house and there's you know, there's food 0:27:08.636 --> 0:27:10.996 and drinks, people hanging out. Yeah, And it was a trip. 0:27:11.076 --> 0:27:13.636 I mean, it was a real trip to just take 0:27:13.716 --> 0:27:16.876 in the scene that you know, we had been invited to, 0:27:17.276 --> 0:27:20.076 and we were very thankful for being invited to, but 0:27:20.876 --> 0:27:24.076 it was clearly above our pay grade, right, so we 0:27:24.196 --> 0:27:25.996 were just kind of like trying to be cool, trying 0:27:25.996 --> 0:27:28.636 to not you know, make sure nobody drank too much 0:27:28.676 --> 0:27:29.516 or did anything stupid. 0:27:29.676 --> 0:27:31.796 Yeah, yeah, and just kind of take the whole scene 0:27:31.836 --> 0:27:33.356 in and yeah, it was, it was, it was. 0:27:33.476 --> 0:27:35.396 It was pretty phenomenal. It's pretty amazing thing to be 0:27:35.396 --> 0:27:35.756 a part of. 0:27:36.156 --> 0:27:39.236 Having grown up in the Seattle area, Meeting Dave must 0:27:39.276 --> 0:27:41.996 have been pretty crazy, right, Oh. Absolutely. 0:27:42.116 --> 0:27:44.036 I remember when I was in high school driving down 0:27:44.116 --> 0:27:49.396 forty fifth in Wallingford with a friend and for whatever reason, 0:27:49.516 --> 0:27:51.796 Dave Broll was just standing on the corner talking to 0:27:51.876 --> 0:27:54.436 somebody and we were driving past. You know, there was 0:27:54.476 --> 0:27:55.636 no way to get out of the car. We were 0:27:55.716 --> 0:27:57.996 like on the road, you know. But I remember just 0:27:58.036 --> 0:27:59.916 like somebody being, oh shitl the Sape girl and save Brol, 0:27:59.996 --> 0:28:01.596 like why is Dave Brill on the street, you know, 0:28:02.276 --> 0:28:04.516 and you know that kind of I of course had 0:28:04.516 --> 0:28:08.036 to tamp down that level of fandom when I first 0:28:08.116 --> 0:28:14.556 met him, and you know, at this point now, yeah, 0:28:14.636 --> 0:28:16.916 so it's but I think that you know, and since 0:28:16.996 --> 0:28:19.156 you know, over the years we have become acquaintances and. 0:28:19.156 --> 0:28:21.156 Have played some shows together and done some stuff together, 0:28:21.236 --> 0:28:22.596 and he's a wonderful dude. 0:28:23.276 --> 0:28:26.796 But I think that we all start out as fans, right, Yeah, 0:28:26.996 --> 0:28:31.796 and you know we're we become fans of people usually 0:28:31.876 --> 0:28:34.676 at a very formative important time in our lives where music, 0:28:35.316 --> 0:28:36.996 at least for me and I'm sure for you, music 0:28:37.116 --> 0:28:40.196 becomes everything to us. It's like everything we want to do, 0:28:40.276 --> 0:28:42.996 it's everything we want to talk about, it's everything we 0:28:43.076 --> 0:28:47.356 want to be. And those artists that are so formative 0:28:47.396 --> 0:28:50.516 to us, you know, in our teenage years especially, you know, 0:28:50.596 --> 0:28:54.516 certainly in a pre internet, pre social media world, we 0:28:54.596 --> 0:28:57.796 could really be in awe of people and just and 0:28:57.916 --> 0:28:59.636 be in awe of them for their talents and the 0:28:59.716 --> 0:29:02.876 work that they have done and not know anything else 0:29:02.876 --> 0:29:07.556 about them. Yeah, and you know, whether it's things are 0:29:07.636 --> 0:29:10.636 better or worse now depends on I guess how old 0:29:10.676 --> 0:29:14.036 you are and what your experiences have been. But you know, 0:29:14.116 --> 0:29:15.516 a friend of mine, at some point we were just 0:29:15.596 --> 0:29:17.076 kind of goofing off about a bunch of shit, and 0:29:17.196 --> 0:29:19.676 he was he's, you know, about ten years older than me, 0:29:19.756 --> 0:29:23.676 so he was playing in bands around Seattle when Nirvana 0:29:23.836 --> 0:29:27.236 was coming up, right, and you know, we were both 0:29:27.316 --> 0:29:29.316 fans of Nirvana, of course, but he had said something 0:29:29.356 --> 0:29:32.596 along the lines of, you know, I think people forget that, like, 0:29:32.716 --> 0:29:34.756 there were a lot of people in Seattle when Nirvana 0:29:34.836 --> 0:29:38.316 got big that were kind of more like those glu sniffers, 0:29:38.596 --> 0:29:39.436 those fucking guys. 0:29:40.236 --> 0:29:40.716 Those guys. 0:29:40.876 --> 0:29:43.636 No, not those guys, right, I mean there were haters, right, 0:29:43.676 --> 0:29:46.916 I mean, like, you know, people were hating on Nirvana 0:29:47.796 --> 0:29:50.156 or Pearl Jam or whatever it might have been when 0:29:50.236 --> 0:29:53.516 they got popular, right, But as a teenager, you know, 0:29:54.356 --> 0:29:55.996 and as a kid who's growing up on the other 0:29:56.076 --> 0:29:59.036 side of the water from Seattle, I was able to 0:29:59.276 --> 0:30:01.676 just be in awe of them and have no context 0:30:01.756 --> 0:30:04.036 of like, I'm not in a band that's also trying 0:30:04.076 --> 0:30:05.756 to make it at the same time as Nirvana. 0:30:05.876 --> 0:30:06.156 I'm not. 0:30:07.836 --> 0:30:10.996 I'm not an older person who like whose band kind 0:30:11.036 --> 0:30:12.916 of petered out, and I see these young kids coming 0:30:12.916 --> 0:30:15.436 along and they get famous, and I'm jealous. I'm just 0:30:15.516 --> 0:30:18.396 in the perfect place to be in Ah to be 0:30:18.476 --> 0:30:20.676 a fan and to be in awe, you know. And 0:30:21.116 --> 0:30:23.716 I think that's such an important part of being a 0:30:23.796 --> 0:30:26.276 fan of music is to have that period and try 0:30:26.316 --> 0:30:27.716 to hold onto as long as you can. 0:30:27.956 --> 0:30:30.036 Yeah, where you can just be a fan of people and. 0:30:30.036 --> 0:30:32.996 Then also final point on it at forty six. Now 0:30:33.516 --> 0:30:35.396 there are people that I grew up being in awe 0:30:35.516 --> 0:30:39.076 of that are in bands that were so formative for 0:30:39.196 --> 0:30:42.436 me that now I'm might be acquaintances with, might be 0:30:42.516 --> 0:30:45.476 friends with. But I always let them know that I'm 0:30:45.516 --> 0:30:48.396 a huge fan. You know, I'm still asking them questions 0:30:48.436 --> 0:30:51.036 about that one record they made thirty years ago, like 0:30:51.076 --> 0:30:52.756 when you so you know, I know you guys recorded 0:30:52.756 --> 0:30:54.356 it here, but like what was the hand, what kind 0:30:54.396 --> 0:30:55.916 of what was the mic on the thing? And you 0:30:55.996 --> 0:30:57.676 know what kind of guitar did it? And you know, 0:30:57.796 --> 0:31:00.316 I think that I'm proud of still being a fan 0:31:00.396 --> 0:31:02.756 of stuff. You know, I still want to look at 0:31:03.236 --> 0:31:05.916 my favorite bands and my favorite records with wonder and 0:31:06.076 --> 0:31:08.716 have them hold some air of mystery. And if I 0:31:08.876 --> 0:31:11.796 have the ability to discuss the record or the songs 0:31:11.836 --> 0:31:14.716 with the people who made them, like I want them 0:31:14.756 --> 0:31:16.516 to know how much those things mean to me. 0:31:17.556 --> 0:31:20.996 Do you mind playing a few songs from the Translanticism? Yeah? 0:31:21.036 --> 0:31:21.276 Of course. 0:31:21.316 --> 0:31:22.716 What would you like to hear? 0:31:23.476 --> 0:31:26.476 Oh man? I get to pick? How about how about title? 0:31:26.476 --> 0:31:27.036 And registration. 0:31:27.116 --> 0:31:28.396 Yeah, let's do that one. Yeah, that one. 0:31:28.476 --> 0:32:00.796 That one works well like in this format, glove compartment. 0:32:01.596 --> 0:32:04.676 Is an accurately name. 0:32:06.556 --> 0:32:19.556 Everybody, How is it? I'm proposing the swift, orderly chasege 0:32:20.236 --> 0:32:25.796 behind its door, and there's nothing to keep my fingers warm. 0:32:26.916 --> 0:32:35.636 All I fine souveneers from better silence before probably of. 0:32:35.836 --> 0:32:41.276 Your tail lights fading, eat to fire. 0:32:42.436 --> 0:33:05.236 Yourself a better light. I was searching for some legal talk. 0:33:05.956 --> 0:33:12.116 Man is the rainbeat down on the hoard when I 0:33:12.316 --> 0:33:18.956 stumbled upon picture as I tried to fucket. 0:33:22.596 --> 0:33:25.276 And that's how this idea. 0:33:27.076 --> 0:33:40.116 Is drilled into my head. It's too imports and stay 0:33:40.196 --> 0:33:42.236 in the away spend. 0:33:45.356 --> 0:33:51.956 There's no blame. How I huf did slowly fain. Now 0:33:52.156 --> 0:33:54.116 that it's stong, it's like. 0:33:54.356 --> 0:34:01.716 It was in there at all here, I les disappointment 0:34:02.156 --> 0:34:05.476 and regret. Could I. 0:34:07.476 --> 0:34:28.476 Why away? He can n There's no blame. How I 0:34:28.876 --> 0:34:34.596 love did slowly faith. Now that it's gone, it's like 0:34:34.836 --> 0:34:38.836 it was in fair at all here. 0:34:38.996 --> 0:34:46.316 I rest disappointment and regret, cl. 0:34:48.076 --> 0:34:50.596 Lying away and night. 0:34:51.996 --> 0:34:52.716 All night. 0:34:53.836 --> 0:34:56.756 When I'm lying away to night. 0:35:17.796 --> 0:35:20.716 That was Ben Gibberd performing Death Cab for cutis title 0:35:20.796 --> 0:35:23.996 and registration. We're gonna take a quick break and then 0:35:24.076 --> 0:35:26.876 come back with more of my conversation with Ben Gibbard. 0:35:31.516 --> 0:35:33.916 We're back with more from my interview with Ben Gibbard. 0:35:34.356 --> 0:35:37.476 We pick up our conversation talking about albums that were 0:35:37.556 --> 0:35:41.196 foundational for him. What are some of those records for 0:35:41.276 --> 0:35:43.316 you that are just like touchstones. 0:35:42.996 --> 0:35:45.196 You know, for me when I was in high school 0:35:45.276 --> 0:35:47.516 kind of finding music that would be kind of became 0:35:47.636 --> 0:35:50.916 my music. It was something Vicious for Tomorrow, which was 0:35:51.516 --> 0:35:53.396 treat People. For those who might not know as a 0:35:53.476 --> 0:35:57.436 band that it was Doug Marsh, who now is known 0:35:57.516 --> 0:35:59.836 mostly for Built a Spill. It was a band that 0:35:59.916 --> 0:36:01.636 he was in before Built a Spill, or when he 0:36:01.716 --> 0:36:04.196 was doing kind of the early Built a Spill recordings, 0:36:04.756 --> 0:36:08.396 And that record made a huge impact on me because, 0:36:09.116 --> 0:36:12.516 you know, growing up in like the suburbs of Seattle, 0:36:13.116 --> 0:36:16.196 or I guess across the water from Seattle, I was 0:36:16.236 --> 0:36:18.196 of an age where everybody was starting to get into 0:36:18.236 --> 0:36:20.196 punk and hardcore and stray edge and stuff like that, 0:36:20.356 --> 0:36:22.876 and there were elements of that music that appealed to me, 0:36:23.996 --> 0:36:29.196 but I'd always been a lot more moved by pop 0:36:29.316 --> 0:36:33.556 music and melodic music, and so for me, hearing Something 0:36:33.716 --> 0:36:36.716 Vicious for Tomorrow. That was a record that was this 0:36:36.916 --> 0:36:40.116 kind of beautiful melding of like very aggressive, kind of 0:36:40.796 --> 0:36:44.276 an interesting guitar work, but was just really great pop 0:36:44.396 --> 0:36:48.276 songs like super Chunk was another huge band for me. 0:36:48.476 --> 0:36:51.436 I mean, records like on the Mouth and Foolish, huge 0:36:51.476 --> 0:36:53.796 records for me. There was a lot going on in 0:36:53.876 --> 0:36:56.396 the Northwest at that point that I really you know, 0:36:56.836 --> 0:36:59.356 Treat People was from Boise, but like you know, there 0:36:59.396 --> 0:37:01.356 was a band called Hazel from Portland that it was 0:37:01.436 --> 0:37:03.876 really I loved. There was a band called Pond from 0:37:03.916 --> 0:37:07.116 Portland that I really loved, and I found myself gravitating 0:37:07.156 --> 0:37:10.316 towards a lot of this music from the americanunderground that 0:37:10.636 --> 0:37:12.716 you know, I guess indie rock was the term was 0:37:12.756 --> 0:37:15.076 being used to a certain extent in the early nineties, 0:37:15.796 --> 0:37:18.556 but it was really just kind of like underground American 0:37:18.676 --> 0:37:21.756 music being made by people who came up on hardcore 0:37:22.396 --> 0:37:25.116 but that had abandoned it or had decided, like, you 0:37:25.156 --> 0:37:26.516 know what, I want to make something a little bit 0:37:26.556 --> 0:37:29.076 more dynamic, or something a little bit more has a 0:37:29.076 --> 0:37:29.676 little bit more. 0:37:29.596 --> 0:37:30.556 To say, or whatever. 0:37:31.196 --> 0:37:32.756 And so that was a lot of that music was 0:37:32.836 --> 0:37:35.836 the kind of music that was really formative to me 0:37:35.916 --> 0:37:38.836 in high school because it when you're a young person, 0:37:38.876 --> 0:37:41.716 and again coming back to it, insecure, you know, you 0:37:41.796 --> 0:37:44.196 feel you want to like cool things. You like what 0:37:44.276 --> 0:37:46.276 you like, but you also want those things to be cool, right, 0:37:46.796 --> 0:37:49.316 And I really did genuinely love these records, but it 0:37:49.396 --> 0:37:51.916 also kind of filled a place in my mind where 0:37:51.956 --> 0:37:53.796 I could be like, oh, and also it's kind of punk, 0:37:53.996 --> 0:37:56.676 so you know, but also, I mean, Teenage fan Club 0:37:56.796 --> 0:37:58.956 is my favorite band than when I first heard Bandwagon 0:37:59.076 --> 0:38:01.996 Esque when I was fifteen. You know, I was not 0:38:02.196 --> 0:38:04.156 I had not heard much of the source material or 0:38:04.236 --> 0:38:07.636 influence of that band. I hadn't heard Big Star or 0:38:07.996 --> 0:38:10.076 much from the Birds or any of the kind of 0:38:10.116 --> 0:38:13.516 seventies power pop stuff they were pulling from. But that 0:38:13.676 --> 0:38:15.676 record just felt so familiar to me, and it felt 0:38:15.796 --> 0:38:18.116 like it was this wonderful kind of extension of the 0:38:18.196 --> 0:38:19.716 music that was on in the house when I was 0:38:19.716 --> 0:38:22.076 a kid. But it was kind of like filtered through 0:38:22.196 --> 0:38:25.316 kind of a J Mascus, you know, influence of kind 0:38:25.356 --> 0:38:28.716 of just like really kind of dirty guitars, and I 0:38:28.716 --> 0:38:31.156 wouldn't music was not aggressive by any such the imagination, 0:38:31.236 --> 0:38:32.676 but it had like I had a grit to it 0:38:32.756 --> 0:38:34.476 that I, as a teenager, really appealed to me. 0:38:34.716 --> 0:38:37.556 It's funny that, like I guess with all those bands 0:38:37.636 --> 0:38:43.076 happening there, Grunge, right, Nirvana, mud Honey, like all those 0:38:43.316 --> 0:38:44.916 all those groups, and it's like coming of age in 0:38:44.916 --> 0:38:47.876 San Francisco on like sixty seven or something. So I 0:38:48.036 --> 0:38:49.956 kind of shocked that you were kind of did, though, 0:38:49.996 --> 0:38:54.076 gravitate more towards a softer, more pop sound. I mean, 0:38:54.316 --> 0:38:56.796 it's evident obviously, and I think if you listen to 0:38:56.876 --> 0:39:00.916 Death Cab records that you write pop songs. But it's 0:39:00.956 --> 0:39:03.236 just it's interesting that you gravitated more towards a softer, 0:39:03.916 --> 0:39:05.396 less aggressive sound, you know. 0:39:06.196 --> 0:39:07.956 Yeah, And I and to be clear, I loved all 0:39:07.996 --> 0:39:10.396 that stuff too. Like the first real show I ever 0:39:10.516 --> 0:39:13.476 saw was the Subpop Ultra Lanfest in ninety one or 0:39:13.556 --> 0:39:15.596 ninety two, like the mud Honey was headlining, and it 0:39:15.756 --> 0:39:19.996 was like Supersuckers and Seaweed I Love Still Love Seaweed, 0:39:20.196 --> 0:39:24.916 Love Seaweed Earth Pond played, so I mean I was 0:39:24.956 --> 0:39:26.956 definitely into that music as well. And it wasn't as 0:39:27.036 --> 0:39:30.076 if I thought that Nirvana or Soundgarden or Pearl Jam 0:39:30.196 --> 0:39:32.196 or Allison Chains were like, not cool. You know, I 0:39:32.556 --> 0:39:35.716 love those bands too, But I think what I found 0:39:35.796 --> 0:39:38.916 really appealing was that I could go to shows in 0:39:38.996 --> 0:39:41.996 Seattle at this small all ages venue called the Okay Hotel, 0:39:42.436 --> 0:39:45.836 which at the time in Seattle, there was this law 0:39:45.876 --> 0:39:48.796 in the books called the teen Dan's Ordnance, which basically 0:39:49.156 --> 0:39:52.236 legislated that any venue over I believe two hundred to 0:39:52.236 --> 0:39:54.356 two undred fifty capacity needed to have a million dollar 0:39:54.396 --> 0:39:57.596 insurance policy. So that basically meant if you wanted to 0:39:57.636 --> 0:39:59.356 see an all ages show in Seattle is either going 0:39:59.436 --> 0:40:01.636 to be at a very small place, or it was 0:40:01.676 --> 0:40:03.596 going to be at the arena those are the two 0:40:03.756 --> 0:40:06.876 or a theater, right, So so many bands came through 0:40:07.556 --> 0:40:10.796 and would play clubs because we as miners, were not 0:40:10.796 --> 0:40:11.396 allowed in there. 0:40:12.116 --> 0:40:14.476 So I spent so much of my time. 0:40:14.356 --> 0:40:16.236 As a kid going to the Okay Hotel to see 0:40:16.716 --> 0:40:18.196 a lot of these bands that you know I've been 0:40:18.236 --> 0:40:21.396 talking about, And what made a huge impression on me 0:40:21.636 --> 0:40:24.596 was that you'd see them set their gear up on stage, 0:40:25.196 --> 0:40:28.956 then play the show, then break the gear down, then 0:40:29.036 --> 0:40:32.036 go to the merch table and sell their records and 0:40:32.076 --> 0:40:34.076 T shirts, and then you'd see them get load the 0:40:34.116 --> 0:40:37.716 gear into the van and drive away. And it might 0:40:37.836 --> 0:40:40.316 sound a little trite to have to consider that a 0:40:41.156 --> 0:40:44.076 you know, a mind blowing thing to see. But I'm 0:40:44.156 --> 0:40:48.436 a product of the eighties and MTV, and if you 0:40:48.436 --> 0:40:50.396 didn't live in a big city or you didn't have 0:40:50.596 --> 0:40:54.196 access to a college radio station, I legitimately thought when 0:40:54.236 --> 0:40:56.156 I was twelve or thirteen years old that the only 0:40:56.236 --> 0:40:58.676 way to be in a band would be if you 0:40:58.716 --> 0:41:01.596 could play like ripping guitar solos and look like you 0:41:01.676 --> 0:41:04.116 were in slaughter or something, right. I mean that was 0:41:04.316 --> 0:41:05.636 because that was what was on TV. 0:41:05.796 --> 0:41:06.396 You're just seeing it. 0:41:06.476 --> 0:41:07.956 You're like, Okay, well I don't look like that. 0:41:08.476 --> 0:41:10.876 I don't play like that. I'll never play like that. 0:41:11.116 --> 0:41:13.716 I don't actually like this music. I guess I can't 0:41:13.756 --> 0:41:15.596 do it because if I can't do it like that, 0:41:15.716 --> 0:41:18.076 it can't be done. But then you have this experience 0:41:18.116 --> 0:41:22.796 where you see people doing it themselves, real people, real people, 0:41:22.956 --> 0:41:25.796 and they just they're they're not they're not changing into 0:41:25.836 --> 0:41:28.196 a costume to go on stage. They're wearing like jeans 0:41:28.236 --> 0:41:30.396 and a T shirt at the time, probably a flannel 0:41:30.836 --> 0:41:33.956 or a thrift store kind of shirt or whatever. And 0:41:34.156 --> 0:41:39.276 what seemed entirely unobtainable immediately snaps into focus. Is something 0:41:39.316 --> 0:41:40.996 that is like, yeah, I could do that, I could 0:41:40.996 --> 0:41:41.156 do that. 0:41:41.276 --> 0:41:44.196 That could be me. Do you ever do postal service 0:41:44.236 --> 0:41:45.316 songs in your solo shows? 0:41:45.836 --> 0:41:46.596 Oh yeah, all the time. 0:41:46.676 --> 0:41:48.876 Yeah yeah yeah. I mean you wrote the words and 0:41:48.916 --> 0:41:50.676 you wrote to the track, but because you didn't like 0:41:50.916 --> 0:41:53.916 craft the track and you weren't like you didn't write 0:41:53.956 --> 0:41:56.156 the chords or anything. I mean, is it was it 0:41:56.236 --> 0:41:58.596 weird when you first transposed it from the record to 0:41:59.396 --> 0:42:01.036 like a guitar to do a solo. 0:42:02.076 --> 0:42:04.156 You know, some of them work better than others, but 0:42:04.596 --> 0:42:06.636 you know, at the end of the day, there's no 0:42:06.676 --> 0:42:09.916 way to say this sounding self aggrandizing, So forgive me. 0:42:10.436 --> 0:42:12.276 But if you think you've written a good to a 0:42:12.316 --> 0:42:14.556 great song or whatever, if you can play it on 0:42:15.116 --> 0:42:17.396 a piano or a guitar or a single instrument with 0:42:17.516 --> 0:42:20.756 a voice can still kind of convey that kind of 0:42:21.396 --> 0:42:24.236 emotion and power, then you know you might really have something. 0:42:25.076 --> 0:42:28.156 But that's also a function of maybe how records. 0:42:27.836 --> 0:42:30.276 Were made in the past and not so much how 0:42:30.396 --> 0:42:32.396 records are made today. I mean, there or it's a 0:42:32.436 --> 0:42:34.236 song that there's less good songs today. 0:42:34.356 --> 0:42:36.636 I mean you know, I don't know. 0:42:36.716 --> 0:42:39.396 I you know, I'm not I'm not gonna be the 0:42:39.396 --> 0:42:41.796 one to say that, but I do think that the 0:42:41.956 --> 0:42:44.596 tool box that young people are using to make music 0:42:44.796 --> 0:42:48.916 today maybe does not lend itself as often to picking 0:42:48.996 --> 0:42:51.916 up an acoustic guitar and playing a song that has 0:42:52.476 --> 0:42:54.956 been created in this kind of in a computer with 0:42:55.076 --> 0:42:59.396 a lot of interesting kind of tricks and not tricks, 0:42:59.436 --> 0:43:02.516 but just production techniques that are don't lend themselves well 0:43:02.676 --> 0:43:05.316 to playing a song on acoustic guitar, like you know, 0:43:05.396 --> 0:43:07.276 like there's a band called hunter Gets that I think 0:43:07.356 --> 0:43:10.196 is fucking fascinating. I think they're really interesting, and I 0:43:10.396 --> 0:43:12.716 like a lot of their songs, but not many of 0:43:12.756 --> 0:43:14.756 their songs. And you know this isn't then as a slight. 0:43:15.116 --> 0:43:16.756 Not many of their songs that I've heard feel like 0:43:16.796 --> 0:43:19.276 they could be. You know, I'm not expecting that, you know, 0:43:19.276 --> 0:43:20.556 an acoustic set coming from that. 0:43:20.836 --> 0:43:22.076 You know, it's not I mean, I guess when I 0:43:22.076 --> 0:43:23.516 say there's no good songs, and it's not that the 0:43:23.716 --> 0:43:25.636 it's not necessarily that the music's bad. I think there's 0:43:25.756 --> 0:43:27.636 plenty of great music now, but I think even some 0:43:27.796 --> 0:43:29.996 of the great a lot of the great music I hear, 0:43:30.276 --> 0:43:32.476 they're not great songs, and I don't I think that's fine. 0:43:32.596 --> 0:43:34.556 It's just just kind of is what it is. Just 0:43:34.636 --> 0:43:36.396 like how a lot of the great music I hear 0:43:36.476 --> 0:43:38.756 now doesn't have like a guitar solo. It's just it's 0:43:38.796 --> 0:43:39.996 just I don't know. It means almost like just like 0:43:40.036 --> 0:43:42.116 a fact. It's like, well, this isn't a song, but 0:43:42.196 --> 0:43:44.036 it's great. I love it. You know, it's cool. 0:43:44.116 --> 0:43:46.396 And I think also what constitutes the song has changed 0:43:46.476 --> 0:43:51.396 dramatically since over the years, right, and again I'm doing 0:43:51.436 --> 0:43:53.836 my best not sound like back in my day, men, 0:43:53.916 --> 0:43:56.716 but you know, yeah, no, not all it's it's it's 0:43:57.076 --> 0:43:59.036 really interesting that, you know a lot of songs that 0:43:59.116 --> 0:44:02.116 are very popular these days are like under two minutes long. Yeah, 0:44:02.236 --> 0:44:04.076 and they might just be like a verse and a 0:44:04.196 --> 0:44:06.796 chorus and maybe a verse and maybe another chorus and 0:44:06.876 --> 0:44:07.436 then we're done. 0:44:07.516 --> 0:44:07.676 Yeah. 0:44:07.996 --> 0:44:10.996 And then on the other you have like good vibrations, right, 0:44:11.556 --> 0:44:15.516 or something that's just like unbelievably sophisticated and complicated with 0:44:15.676 --> 0:44:20.436 multiple changes. I mean recently we were on tour and 0:44:20.516 --> 0:44:23.196 I picked up a copy of Seeds of Love by 0:44:23.396 --> 0:44:26.756 Tears for Fears, and which is you know, i'd love 0:44:26.836 --> 0:44:29.356 Tears for Fears, love that record, but you put on 0:44:29.636 --> 0:44:31.476 you know, Sewing the Seeds of Love and you're like, 0:44:31.636 --> 0:44:34.436 holy shit, this is a fucking complicated song man. There's 0:44:34.516 --> 0:44:39.236 like bridges after bridges, key changes, modulations. I mean, it 0:44:39.396 --> 0:44:43.196 is it's they They spared no expense on that one, 0:44:43.236 --> 0:44:45.236 Yeah right, I mean, but a good song is a 0:44:45.276 --> 0:44:47.276 good song if it's you know, a great song is 0:44:47.316 --> 0:44:49.396 a minute long that just punches you right in the face, 0:44:49.436 --> 0:44:52.396 and then a great song can be twenty minute song cycle. 0:44:52.436 --> 0:44:55.236 You know, it's really just a matter of conveying emotion 0:44:55.476 --> 0:44:57.836 and telling a story, you know, yeah, yeah. 0:44:57.916 --> 0:45:00.996 Do you have a different relationship to the Postal Service song? 0:45:01.036 --> 0:45:03.756 So they feel holy like yourself? Like I know, like 0:45:03.956 --> 0:45:05.596 in Death Cab youoreus and you felt very much like 0:45:05.636 --> 0:45:07.836 the songwriter, And so I imagine those feel like like 0:45:07.916 --> 0:45:10.836 the way genre Paul George, who like their their Beatles 0:45:10.876 --> 0:45:13.116 songs like those are their songs, But like you feel 0:45:13.156 --> 0:45:16.076 that way about the Postal Server songs? Do those feel different? 0:45:16.516 --> 0:45:19.636 They are, you know, legally and spiritually both Jimmy and 0:45:19.836 --> 0:45:23.276 My and my songs. But I've been playing some of 0:45:23.356 --> 0:45:25.956 them for so long, I've played a lot of these 0:45:25.996 --> 0:45:28.716 songs more on acoustic guitar than I have with Jimmy, 0:45:29.556 --> 0:45:31.756 So a lot of the a lot of the versions 0:45:31.796 --> 0:45:35.476 of these songs have become they've taken on a life 0:45:35.516 --> 0:45:38.956 of their own in this kind of stripped down format. 0:45:39.156 --> 0:45:41.316 I think at some point in the No Direction Home, 0:45:41.356 --> 0:45:43.716 I think the Bob Dylan documentary, he says something along 0:45:43.716 --> 0:45:46.036 the lines of, you know, yeah, the best versions of 0:45:46.076 --> 0:45:48.556 my songs were never recorded. Yeah, you know, you go 0:45:48.636 --> 0:45:50.276 into a studio and you make a you know, you 0:45:50.396 --> 0:45:53.796 record like a rolling stone, and you know, that's just 0:45:54.076 --> 0:45:56.396 like he probably wrote that the week before, and they 0:45:56.436 --> 0:45:59.876 went in with a guy who had never played orgon 0:45:59.916 --> 0:46:02.556 on a record before, right, and they just and they 0:46:02.636 --> 0:46:03.916 knock it out in a couple of takes, and like, 0:46:03.916 --> 0:46:06.076 all right, that is the definitive version of like a 0:46:06.396 --> 0:46:08.356 you know, like a rolling stone. That's what it is, 0:46:08.476 --> 0:46:12.356 from from now until the end of time. But as 0:46:12.436 --> 0:46:16.996 a performer, as a touring musician, as pertains to our songs, 0:46:17.036 --> 0:46:19.316 I'm sure Dylan probably feels the same way, because he 0:46:19.436 --> 0:46:22.156 literally said it. We've gotten a lot better at playing 0:46:22.236 --> 0:46:24.916 all of these songs because we've played them hundreds, if 0:46:24.956 --> 0:46:29.636 not thousands of times, and there's little kind of variations 0:46:29.756 --> 0:46:33.596 and little tweaks of kind of kind of like bubbled 0:46:33.676 --> 0:46:36.036 up over the years, you know. So I'm very much 0:46:36.036 --> 0:46:38.236 a firm believer in that notion. Yeah, the best versions 0:46:38.276 --> 0:46:42.236 of anything I've ever recorded has not been recorded. 0:46:43.036 --> 0:46:44.756 I like that. It's like, you know, the best. 0:46:44.596 --> 0:46:48.316 Version of an acoustic pulsiver song probably existed somewhere in 0:46:48.316 --> 0:46:51.036 a solo show somewhere in the world. And maybe, you know, 0:46:51.316 --> 0:46:53.636 these days everything seems to be recorded in some capacity, 0:46:53.716 --> 0:46:56.876 but maybe it maybe it happened in two thousand and seven, 0:46:56.956 --> 0:46:58.796 right before the iPhone came out or something, you know. 0:46:58.956 --> 0:47:02.036 Yeah, or maybe it's one could be. 0:47:02.156 --> 0:47:03.916 I mean, yeah, I mean I think when we heard 0:47:03.956 --> 0:47:06.036 when we heard Ironwiness versions that's chrit Heights were kind 0:47:06.036 --> 0:47:07.516 of like, well, I guess that's how I'm playing that now, 0:47:07.636 --> 0:47:07.836 you know. 0:47:07.916 --> 0:47:09.996 I mean, it's just like there's that uh. 0:47:10.476 --> 0:47:12.316 I don't know if you might be too young to 0:47:12.356 --> 0:47:14.356 remember this bit, but there was like an old SNL 0:47:14.436 --> 0:47:17.236 bit with Eddie Murphy playing buck Wheat and he's like 0:47:17.316 --> 0:47:18.916 singing all these songs and the whole thing is like 0:47:18.956 --> 0:47:23.076 Buckwheat has a record of him doing standards, you know, 0:47:23.556 --> 0:47:25.876 and at some point the announcer says something along lines 0:47:25.916 --> 0:47:27.596 of like, you know, when Buck Wheat sings a song, 0:47:27.676 --> 0:47:30.956 it's eternally his, you know, And I feel that way 0:47:30.996 --> 0:47:33.436 about Sam Beam. You know, when Sam Beam decides to 0:47:33.476 --> 0:47:35.796 sing a song, it kind of becomes eternally his. It's like, now, 0:47:36.156 --> 0:47:39.036 such great heights, you know, belongs to Sam Beam, at 0:47:39.116 --> 0:47:39.716 least spiritually. 0:47:39.756 --> 0:47:42.236 At this point, it's a really good version, you know. Yeah, 0:47:42.236 --> 0:47:45.556 it's so good, really good version that era of music. 0:47:46.236 --> 0:47:50.636 I felt special having heard the Postal Service Record in what, 0:47:50.876 --> 0:47:52.916 in my mind what I considered early and then by 0:47:52.956 --> 0:47:55.396 the time that record starts blowing up, he started to 0:47:55.436 --> 0:47:58.556 feel like, well, like, but this was this was my music, 0:47:58.596 --> 0:48:01.396 This was my group. You know. There was because I 0:48:01.476 --> 0:48:04.476 think in that time and a little later, people were 0:48:04.556 --> 0:48:07.716 starving for like kind of real people that could connect to. 0:48:07.796 --> 0:48:09.876 There was also this sense of like you wanted to 0:48:09.916 --> 0:48:13.916 keep things small and for yourself, and sometimes that that 0:48:14.156 --> 0:48:16.636 could be I guess, you know, in hindsight, I'm sure 0:48:16.676 --> 0:48:18.956 that was limiting both the fans and the artists. But 0:48:19.156 --> 0:48:21.876 was it weird for you when when the Postal Service 0:48:21.916 --> 0:48:23.556 Record took off the way that it did. 0:48:24.436 --> 0:48:27.596 Oh, of course absolutely. I mean, do you feel like 0:48:27.596 --> 0:48:30.196 I can speak from experience because you know, I was 0:48:30.236 --> 0:48:33.276 also once a young person getting into music, right. I 0:48:33.356 --> 0:48:36.396 think when you're young, you're kind of figuring, you're finding 0:48:36.436 --> 0:48:38.596 out who you are, You're kind of creating your identity. 0:48:39.316 --> 0:48:42.316 We haven't really done a lot of stuff yet, right, 0:48:42.516 --> 0:48:46.636 So how we define ourselves tends to be through the 0:48:46.716 --> 0:48:50.876 things that we like. So if you like something super obscure, 0:48:51.876 --> 0:48:54.276 that telegraphs to somebody that you are a very interesting 0:48:54.396 --> 0:48:57.676 person because I'm the only one who likes this really 0:48:57.716 --> 0:48:59.836 obscure thing that not a lot of people know about. 0:49:00.796 --> 0:49:03.676 But then when the captain of the football team is 0:49:03.796 --> 0:49:11.116 like singing Nirvana songs, suddenly, suddenly, you know, the definition 0:49:11.196 --> 0:49:14.916 of your individuality through being a Nirvana fan doesn't seem 0:49:14.956 --> 0:49:15.716 that unique anymore. 0:49:15.836 --> 0:49:15.956 Right. 0:49:16.596 --> 0:49:18.356 As I've gotten older, I've been really able to parse 0:49:18.396 --> 0:49:20.556 it out for myself, and it's been interesting to see 0:49:20.636 --> 0:49:25.436 how that phenomenon kind of works, how it exists in people. 0:49:25.556 --> 0:49:28.236 Right. But you know, never connected though that it was 0:49:28.316 --> 0:49:31.276 related to that we haven't had many experiences. I mean, 0:49:31.276 --> 0:49:33.756 it's obvious to everyone that that's how we define ourselves 0:49:33.756 --> 0:49:35.076 as by the things we're into at that age, but 0:49:35.156 --> 0:49:37.996 I really never connected it to that. It's like, you 0:49:38.076 --> 0:49:40.396 can't define yourself by your job at that age, or 0:49:40.796 --> 0:49:41.516 you have no job. 0:49:41.676 --> 0:49:44.796 You're going to high school and so you know, you 0:49:45.196 --> 0:49:48.596 haven't probably written anything, or built anything, or done anything 0:49:48.716 --> 0:49:52.236 or gone anywhere. So, you know, so much of our identity, 0:49:52.356 --> 0:49:55.236 certainly when we're into the arts or music, tend to 0:49:55.316 --> 0:49:58.996 revolve around the things that we like, and the more 0:49:59.036 --> 0:50:02.196 obscure those things are, the more interesting we are as people. 0:50:02.476 --> 0:50:02.596 Right. 0:50:03.716 --> 0:50:05.996 But you know, to kind of come back around to 0:50:06.076 --> 0:50:11.116 the response to give up when I believe when subpop 0:50:11.356 --> 0:50:14.916 was kind of making its calculations as to how many records, 0:50:16.156 --> 0:50:18.076 you know, the projections on what we thought this thing 0:50:18.156 --> 0:50:20.476 could sell or what they thought it could sell. I 0:50:20.556 --> 0:50:23.476 think at that point Death Caab's biggest record had sold 0:50:23.716 --> 0:50:25.756 fifty thousand copies or something like that would have been 0:50:25.756 --> 0:50:28.836 the photo album, and you know, Jimmy's Records had done 0:50:28.836 --> 0:50:30.116 what they had done. I don't know what they had done, 0:50:30.156 --> 0:50:33.276 and I think they had determined, you know, between will 0:50:33.316 --> 0:50:35.196 be in really great shape if we sell between like 0:50:35.316 --> 0:50:38.236 fifteen and twenty thousand copies, because that's like slightly less 0:50:38.276 --> 0:50:42.796 than half the Death Cab record, and you know, this 0:50:42.876 --> 0:50:45.436 seems like this might be a good, good kind of goal. 0:50:45.756 --> 0:50:48.356 And you know, we went out in the spring of 0:50:48.916 --> 0:50:51.596 two thousand and three and did a five week tour 0:50:51.676 --> 0:50:55.476 of the States, playing to you know, not many people. 0:50:55.796 --> 0:50:57.156 You know, when we get to New York, we were 0:50:57.196 --> 0:50:59.276 playing one Bowery Baller and then now we're playing two. 0:50:59.516 --> 0:51:00.076 That's exciting. 0:51:00.476 --> 0:51:02.836 And the La Show got moved from I think the 0:51:02.996 --> 0:51:05.036 Smell and then it eventually ended up at the Palace 0:51:05.396 --> 0:51:08.516 Theater on Vine. So you know, by the time the 0:51:08.596 --> 0:51:10.596 tours end, things were starting to pick up and it 0:51:10.676 --> 0:51:13.076 felt like the record was starting to have legs, but 0:51:13.196 --> 0:51:15.476 there was no kind of sense that it would kind 0:51:15.516 --> 0:51:17.036 of take off the way that it did. And what 0:51:17.356 --> 0:51:20.276 is still so interesting to me about that record is that, 0:51:21.076 --> 0:51:24.036 you know, subpop was trying to promote it, but they weren't. 0:51:24.156 --> 0:51:25.756 You know, it wasn't getting played on the radio. It 0:51:25.876 --> 0:51:28.436 was we didn't have like a video and rotation on MTV. 0:51:28.596 --> 0:51:31.236 It was kind of like the record was kind of 0:51:31.356 --> 0:51:32.076 selling itself. 0:51:32.236 --> 0:51:34.396 What was the promotional effort around that because I don't 0:51:34.396 --> 0:51:37.036 really remember one until I guess the video gets made 0:51:37.076 --> 0:51:38.956 in that video was made a couple of years later. 0:51:39.676 --> 0:51:41.276 Yeah, I mean, you know it was. It kind of 0:51:41.396 --> 0:51:46.236 got sent through the pretty standard sub Pop promotional machine, 0:51:46.236 --> 0:51:48.636 which was, you know, we'll get our publicist on trying 0:51:48.676 --> 0:51:51.316 to get interviews and try to get college rated to 0:51:51.356 --> 0:51:52.516 play it for a couple of months, and then we'll 0:51:52.556 --> 0:51:54.596 move on to whatever the next record is. Yeah, and 0:51:54.956 --> 0:51:58.396 it really became The record just took on a life 0:51:58.436 --> 0:52:00.756 of its own to the extent where Jimmy and I 0:52:00.876 --> 0:52:04.076 might be the authors of the record and Subpop might 0:52:04.156 --> 0:52:07.636 have been the label, but it just kind of it 0:52:07.836 --> 0:52:11.476 just had this incredibly organic word of mouth vibe to 0:52:11.596 --> 0:52:14.196 it where I don't want to like undersell the work 0:52:14.236 --> 0:52:16.436 that Subpop did on Our Behalf. But it wasn't as 0:52:16.476 --> 0:52:19.236 if sub Pop was spending a ton of money to 0:52:19.316 --> 0:52:20.676 let people know the record exist. 0:52:20.476 --> 0:52:22.036 For thinking it was going to be the next Death 0:52:22.116 --> 0:52:24.436 Cab record, right, which is probably why they assumed less 0:52:24.516 --> 0:52:27.076 than the fifty thousand that photo album. Right. 0:52:27.156 --> 0:52:28.916 It's like yeah, I just like, yeah, it'll be Yeah. 0:52:28.916 --> 0:52:30.476 I mean, people will be interested in this if they're 0:52:30.516 --> 0:52:33.276 fans of Death Cab. But it's when a singer from 0:52:33.316 --> 0:52:35.276 a band puts out a solo record, like nobody expects 0:52:35.316 --> 0:52:37.916 the solo record to be you know, Dave Girl puts 0:52:37.956 --> 0:52:39.556 out a solo record, nobody's expecting it to do as 0:52:39.596 --> 0:52:41.916 well as a food fine record. Yeah right, so yeah, 0:52:42.196 --> 0:52:43.956 so we just kind of and we kind of we 0:52:44.116 --> 0:52:45.676 wrapped up that tour whom we kind of thought, well, 0:52:45.756 --> 0:52:48.476 that's that, that was fun, and then we just get 0:52:48.516 --> 0:52:50.796 these calls from Tony at Subpop like, hey, the record 0:52:50.836 --> 0:52:54.916 is sold fifty thousand copies. Hey, the record's eighty thousand copies. Guys, 0:52:54.956 --> 0:52:56.756 we just want over one hundred thousand copies. We're two 0:52:56.836 --> 0:53:00.236 hundred thousand copies. It just it just snowballed. And to 0:53:00.396 --> 0:53:02.396 this day, I don't I don't have I don't have 0:53:02.476 --> 0:53:07.276 a good explanations to why that happened, aside from the fact. 0:53:07.036 --> 0:53:09.996 That we obviously thought the record was good, was really good. 0:53:10.476 --> 0:53:11.996 But there's a lot of great music in the world 0:53:12.076 --> 0:53:14.436 that doesn't sell a knowing copy efctionally good. 0:53:14.436 --> 0:53:15.596 I mean, and that's kind of what I was trying 0:53:15.596 --> 0:53:17.396 to get at the top, is like people had made 0:53:17.476 --> 0:53:19.876 of course people, I mean, there's nine inch Nails, right, Like, 0:53:20.076 --> 0:53:22.036 he's right, he's a songwriter and he does it in 0:53:22.196 --> 0:53:24.876 the kind of an electronic idiom and there's a human 0:53:24.916 --> 0:53:26.316 league to all that. But it's like, I don't know, 0:53:26.436 --> 0:53:28.996 it's so into this day. It doesn't sound the record 0:53:29.036 --> 0:53:31.476 doesn't sound dated, and there's like radio ad records that 0:53:31.596 --> 0:53:33.436 sound dated to me at this point, you know, and 0:53:33.796 --> 0:53:35.556 you listen to that, you're like, oh my god, Like 0:53:35.636 --> 0:53:39.436 it's still there's something about it that is exceptionally well crafted. 0:53:39.716 --> 0:53:43.956 And same with Translanticism too, which I revisited recently, and 0:53:44.116 --> 0:53:46.316 I think it has to do with the songwriting and 0:53:46.436 --> 0:53:47.436 the production both. 0:53:48.156 --> 0:53:50.876 Yeah, I appreciate you saying that. I mean, I have 0:53:51.076 --> 0:53:54.836 had exceptional timing in my career and I don't know 0:53:54.876 --> 0:53:56.716 who to thank for that. You know, I think that 0:53:57.396 --> 0:53:59.276 it's you know, it's been said a million times that 0:53:59.316 --> 0:54:02.956 if you could kind of if you could manufacture. 0:54:02.276 --> 0:54:04.756 A hit, that's all we would have, right, Yeah, But 0:54:05.196 --> 0:54:06.356 you know, I don't know. 0:54:06.476 --> 0:54:12.076 I feel like, certainly myself in relation to both Translanticism 0:54:12.156 --> 0:54:14.836 and give Up, I feel confident in my abilities as 0:54:14.876 --> 0:54:19.636 a songwriter. I feel confident and proud of my collaborators, 0:54:19.876 --> 0:54:21.036 and I think the things we. 0:54:21.116 --> 0:54:22.436 Made were really good. 0:54:23.036 --> 0:54:24.836 But you know, there were a lot of records coming 0:54:24.876 --> 0:54:28.556 out in that same timeframe, you know, that were as good, 0:54:28.636 --> 0:54:30.996 if not better. And you know, I'm not saying this 0:54:31.076 --> 0:54:33.276 to be overly self effacing. I'm just saying like, we 0:54:33.476 --> 0:54:37.316 just found ourselves making. We had these two records come 0:54:37.396 --> 0:54:40.876 out that, for whatever series of reasons, really hit in 0:54:40.956 --> 0:54:44.516 the culture, and we were there and able to capitalize 0:54:44.556 --> 0:54:47.076 on it and be out on tour and be promoting 0:54:47.076 --> 0:54:47.596 the records. 0:54:47.996 --> 0:54:49.556 And you know, what was also. 0:54:49.436 --> 0:54:53.276 Happening at that time was this massive cultural shift where 0:54:53.716 --> 0:54:58.196 indie rock went from being this underground medium to being 0:54:58.596 --> 0:55:01.316 I wouldn't I would never say so much mainstream, but 0:55:01.436 --> 0:55:04.196 certainly like larger than it had ever been, you know, 0:55:04.676 --> 0:55:07.636 and certainly kind of started to kind of like you know, 0:55:07.916 --> 0:55:11.356 it was stre sure, Yeah, and in a similar way 0:55:11.396 --> 0:55:14.676 that you know, quote unquote alternative broken in the mainstream 0:55:15.116 --> 0:55:17.636 post Nirvana, where there are bands that bands are playing 0:55:17.716 --> 0:55:20.396 theaters that a couple of years ago were just playing clubs, right, 0:55:20.956 --> 0:55:23.916 So I think that we were also. Both records were 0:55:24.276 --> 0:55:27.916 kind of spurred on by this larger kind of cultural shift, 0:55:28.676 --> 0:55:31.116 you know. I mean there's that famous Sonic Youth documentary 0:55:31.196 --> 0:55:33.516 nineteen ninety one, the year the Punk Broke, which was 0:55:33.556 --> 0:55:36.436 a very apt title in hindsight, and I feel like 0:55:36.516 --> 0:55:38.956 a similar piece could be made about two thousand and four, 0:55:39.476 --> 0:55:40.876 and that like two thousand and four was the year 0:55:40.916 --> 0:55:42.716 that indie rock broke, Like it went from being this 0:55:42.956 --> 0:55:46.476 underground thing to like a year or two later, it's like. 0:55:46.516 --> 0:55:49.516 The Killers are everywhere or whatever an Arcade. 0:55:49.236 --> 0:55:52.356 Fire, Yeah, ArKade Fire, and the Shins and and you know, 0:55:52.436 --> 0:55:54.716 it's like bands that if they had come out five 0:55:54.796 --> 0:55:57.916 years earlier would have been playing basements and small clubs 0:55:57.956 --> 0:55:59.316 are now headlining Lollapalooza. 0:55:59.476 --> 0:56:03.676 Yeah yeah, yeah, really crazy, really insane time. What did 0:56:04.036 --> 0:56:06.796 the guys from Death Cab What was their reaction to 0:56:07.196 --> 0:56:10.316 both the music of the service and also the success 0:56:10.356 --> 0:56:12.636 of Give Up? Was it tough? 0:56:12.956 --> 0:56:16.756 Everyone was very supportive while I was making the record, 0:56:17.076 --> 0:56:20.236 And you know, Chris actually plays plays some piano and 0:56:20.516 --> 0:56:23.716 on the record on Give Up. Chris played piano on 0:56:24.116 --> 0:56:27.196 the song nothing Better, and he helped record some of 0:56:27.196 --> 0:56:29.036 the guitars and vocals and stuff. So he was kind 0:56:29.036 --> 0:56:31.076 of helping me make make some of the record. I 0:56:31.156 --> 0:56:33.956 did some of it at my little home studio, but 0:56:34.156 --> 0:56:35.476 Chris was integral and. 0:56:35.556 --> 0:56:36.436 Helping make the record. 0:56:36.796 --> 0:56:38.916 And you know, Death Cab had come off a pretty 0:56:38.956 --> 0:56:42.916 grueling period of touring between We Have the Facts and 0:56:42.996 --> 0:56:45.716 Revoting Yes and Photo Album, and it was a real 0:56:45.796 --> 0:56:48.556 grind and we had, you know, almost broken up, and 0:56:49.596 --> 0:56:51.836 thankfully kind of pulled back from the edge of the 0:56:51.876 --> 0:56:53.756 cliff and said, like, we need to take some time off, 0:56:53.916 --> 0:56:56.076 like we need we need to take some time away 0:56:56.076 --> 0:56:58.876 from this. It was that time away, which ended up 0:56:58.916 --> 0:57:03.156 being eight or nine months, that allowed me to really 0:57:03.276 --> 0:57:07.596 kind of wander creatively and write songs for both Translanticism 0:57:07.636 --> 0:57:10.436 and do this project with Jimmy. So everybody in the 0:57:10.476 --> 0:57:12.676 band was really supportive of it, and when it came out, 0:57:12.836 --> 0:57:16.276 you know, everybody was cool with it. I think there 0:57:16.356 --> 0:57:20.556 was a very awkward period between when give Up eclipsed 0:57:20.636 --> 0:57:25.036 the sales of the photo album and when transit Lanticism 0:57:25.116 --> 0:57:25.436 came out. 0:57:25.676 --> 0:57:28.556 You know, I started Death Caap for Cutie. This was 0:57:28.716 --> 0:57:29.196 my band. 0:57:29.996 --> 0:57:32.756 It started as a solo project, so you know, I 0:57:32.836 --> 0:57:35.356 didn't think that anybody in the band needed reassurance that 0:57:35.396 --> 0:57:37.636 I wasn't going to like jump ship to this new 0:57:37.756 --> 0:57:40.956 thing that because it was starting to blow up. I mean, 0:57:40.996 --> 0:57:44.756 that never crossed my mind, but you know, there was 0:57:44.796 --> 0:57:46.876 a little bit of awkwardness when all of a sudden, 0:57:47.276 --> 0:57:49.996 you know, I'm sitting on a side project that has 0:57:50.396 --> 0:57:53.196 sold two hundred and fifty thousand copies or whatever, and 0:57:53.756 --> 0:57:55.956 you know, we're just about to put transit Lantism out, 0:57:56.436 --> 0:57:59.116 and there's this kind of like and it wasn't happening 0:57:59.156 --> 0:58:00.836 a lot, but it was starting to happen a little 0:58:00.836 --> 0:58:02.276 bit where people would come to our shows and they'd 0:58:02.316 --> 0:58:06.276 be screaming for pols over songs. They didn't understand the distinction. 0:58:06.436 --> 0:58:08.316 They didn't get that we weren't just going to go 0:58:08.516 --> 0:58:11.676 into a service song. Yeah, And so you know, there 0:58:11.756 --> 0:58:13.276 was a period of time in which I think some 0:58:13.436 --> 0:58:15.876 of you know, there was some bruised egos in the 0:58:15.956 --> 0:58:17.636 band around understandably. 0:58:17.716 --> 0:58:19.356 I mean that understandably of course. 0:58:19.476 --> 0:58:21.756 I mean, you know, it's like we as Death Cab 0:58:21.876 --> 0:58:25.076 had joked about selling fifty thousand records being indie rock gold, 0:58:25.276 --> 0:58:28.396 right like, we we were a huge band in quotes 0:58:28.436 --> 0:58:29.596 like and we were as big as you could be, 0:58:29.796 --> 0:58:31.916 you know, and then to find out that not only 0:58:32.116 --> 0:58:35.396 was there another level, but then I was experiencing that 0:58:35.476 --> 0:58:38.516 other level with my side project. You know, there was 0:58:38.556 --> 0:58:42.116 some awkward moments there. But back to timing. You know, 0:58:42.196 --> 0:58:44.796 if we would have put out photo album in two 0:58:44.796 --> 0:58:47.876 thousand and three instead of Translanticism, Death Cab would not 0:58:47.956 --> 0:58:50.516 have become what it became, right, and the profile of 0:58:50.556 --> 0:58:52.116 the band would not have risen the way it did 0:58:52.156 --> 0:58:55.356 after Translentism came out. So we just were very fortunate 0:58:55.476 --> 0:58:57.916 to be putting out you know what, I think a 0:58:57.916 --> 0:58:59.676 lot of people would consider to this day our best 0:58:59.796 --> 0:59:02.876 record as the as a follow up of sorts to 0:59:02.916 --> 0:59:03.276 give up. 0:59:03.756 --> 0:59:06.556 Earlier, you were talking about how like before you work 0:59:07.116 --> 0:59:10.516 a verse in a way to like faster songs like 0:59:11.316 --> 0:59:14.516 the kind of slow malaise kind of would become known 0:59:14.556 --> 0:59:18.156 as kind of like a shoegayzy thing maybe, But you know, Translanticism, 0:59:18.196 --> 0:59:19.436 I don't know how much of that is down to 0:59:19.596 --> 0:59:22.796 also getting a new drummer around that time. Yeah, I 0:59:22.916 --> 0:59:26.036 feel like added a lot to that record. Was one 0:59:26.116 --> 0:59:28.076 feeding the other in a way in terms of just 0:59:28.156 --> 0:59:30.796 the production. Do you think I'm not? 0:59:30.956 --> 0:59:31.636 I wouldn't say that. 0:59:32.356 --> 0:59:35.436 You know, there might be some similarities in the some 0:59:35.556 --> 0:59:38.116 slight similarities just because of my voice and how I 0:59:39.116 --> 0:59:41.596 kind of stack vocals and stuff like that, But Chris 0:59:41.756 --> 0:59:44.316 was very much doing his own thing with translanticism, and 0:59:44.916 --> 0:59:47.956 you know, the give up was like a Jimmy. 0:59:47.756 --> 0:59:48.516 And Ben production. 0:59:48.716 --> 0:59:50.796 So we were just kind of doing it ourselves, having 0:59:50.876 --> 0:59:53.076 never really produced a record before, just kind of flying 0:59:53.116 --> 0:59:54.476 by the seat of my pants. 0:59:54.556 --> 0:59:54.756 Yeah. 0:59:55.636 --> 0:59:58.356 But you know, I think when when Jason joined the band, 0:59:58.756 --> 1:00:01.276 I think we all we had tried to get Jason 1:00:01.356 --> 1:00:04.676 to join the band, I believe two previous times. Our 1:00:04.716 --> 1:00:09.396 first drummer, Nathan Good, who is a phenomenal drummer. And 1:00:09.756 --> 1:00:13.156 you know, when we first started the band and had 1:00:13.276 --> 1:00:16.836 Nathan playing drums, I was convinced that I'd never like 1:00:16.996 --> 1:00:19.316 this was it was like your first love, right, Yeah, 1:00:19.356 --> 1:00:21.236 Like this guy plays, he hits so hard and the 1:00:21.436 --> 1:00:23.836 partsy rights are so cool, and like, ah, this guy's great. 1:00:24.116 --> 1:00:25.796 But you know, we just found ourselves in a position 1:00:25.916 --> 1:00:30.236 where we were driving around playing to nobody, making no money, 1:00:30.316 --> 1:00:32.436 and he was just out of college, and you know, 1:00:32.556 --> 1:00:34.916 he's wanted to get married and kind of get a job. 1:00:35.036 --> 1:00:37.076 And I think there might have been a little familial 1:00:37.116 --> 1:00:38.956 pressure there as well, because I mean, look at us, 1:00:38.996 --> 1:00:41.556 with these four idiots in a van driving around stinky, 1:00:42.036 --> 1:00:44.116 you know, making no money. Why would there be a 1:00:44.156 --> 1:00:45.916 future in that and I can see that now, you 1:00:45.956 --> 1:00:48.116 know as an adult. You know, if you were outside 1:00:48.156 --> 1:00:50.156 of this culture, you wouldn't see that and go like, no, 1:00:50.276 --> 1:00:51.436 that's a that's a dead end, buddy. 1:00:51.516 --> 1:00:51.676 Yeah. 1:00:52.316 --> 1:00:54.796 So when Nathan quit, we had this gentleman named Michael 1:00:54.836 --> 1:00:57.316 Shore joined the band, and he was a phenomenal drummer, 1:00:57.876 --> 1:01:01.876 great drummer, great dude. But him, he and Chris really 1:01:01.996 --> 1:01:03.956 kind of butted heads in the studio. They didn't play 1:01:03.996 --> 1:01:07.516 well together in that in that capacity. So when Jason 1:01:07.836 --> 1:01:10.636 joined the band really felt like we you know, and 1:01:10.876 --> 1:01:12.436 this might I don't mean this as a slight to 1:01:12.516 --> 1:01:16.476 Michael or Nathan, but it really felt like we really, 1:01:16.756 --> 1:01:20.276 we really had somebody that was like on board all 1:01:20.356 --> 1:01:20.636 the way. 1:01:20.796 --> 1:01:21.036 Yeah. 1:01:21.116 --> 1:01:23.756 And for me, as someone who fancies himself at least 1:01:23.756 --> 1:01:26.036 a little bit of a drummer, I was writing a 1:01:26.076 --> 1:01:28.196 lot of parts, a lot of drum parts, especially in 1:01:28.236 --> 1:01:32.356 the early records, and you know, Jason is one of 1:01:32.356 --> 1:01:34.756 the greatest drummers I've ever heard. But he also would 1:01:34.796 --> 1:01:37.436 have no issue with, oh, yeah, that is that how 1:01:37.476 --> 1:01:38.836 you want the drums? Okay, cool, I'll play like that. 1:01:38.996 --> 1:01:39.196 Yeah. 1:01:39.396 --> 1:01:41.156 But he'd also be like, but I could also do 1:01:41.236 --> 1:01:42.796 it like this and he's like, oh, that's cool, or 1:01:42.876 --> 1:01:44.476 like no, I think I like it like this, Okay, 1:01:44.476 --> 1:01:46.396 I'll do it like that. So he was very malleable 1:01:46.436 --> 1:01:49.956 and he was very opinionated, but without ever being overbearing, 1:01:50.156 --> 1:01:52.716 Like you know, when Jason had a strong Jason wouldn't 1:01:52.756 --> 1:01:54.316 just Jason's not the kind of guy who will just 1:01:54.396 --> 1:01:56.036 chime in with every opinion that he has, but if 1:01:56.076 --> 1:01:59.156 you feel strongly about something, he will voice that opinion. 1:01:59.276 --> 1:02:01.236 And for the first time in a long time, I 1:02:01.276 --> 1:02:03.956 would see when he was pushing back on something that 1:02:04.076 --> 1:02:07.356 Chris was trying to have him do. I would see 1:02:07.436 --> 1:02:10.556 Chris really focusing and really listening to Jason and be like, Okay, 1:02:10.636 --> 1:02:12.556 let's do it that way. And that was that was 1:02:12.596 --> 1:02:16.556 a new experience for us. Wow, primarily because Michael. 1:02:16.316 --> 1:02:17.956 And Chris had but it had so much there. 1:02:18.116 --> 1:02:21.236 There's so much adversarial kind of moments in the studio 1:02:21.276 --> 1:02:24.156 that it was difficult to parse out who was being unreasonable. 1:02:24.476 --> 1:02:26.116 It was just they weren't They just weren't agreeing. So 1:02:26.196 --> 1:02:28.036 once we had Jason, it was like there was no audition. 1:02:28.156 --> 1:02:29.916 We were just like, all right, let's let's just get 1:02:29.996 --> 1:02:31.436 in and start working on these songs. 1:02:31.556 --> 1:02:34.796 You had the demos for the Translanticism, saw some of 1:02:34.876 --> 1:02:37.876 them at least before Yeah, before yeah, okay, yeah, and. 1:02:37.956 --> 1:02:41.556 We just immediately jumped in the studio and started experimenting 1:02:41.636 --> 1:02:44.156 and playing around with the songs, and in this case 1:02:44.196 --> 1:02:46.636 with a drummer who was more than willing to like 1:02:47.556 --> 1:02:49.596 you know, Neil Pert all over the song or to 1:02:49.756 --> 1:02:50.836 just sit out and not play at all. 1:02:51.156 --> 1:02:51.796 There was you know he did. 1:02:51.836 --> 1:02:53.956 He didn't have any ego about his I mean, we 1:02:53.996 --> 1:02:55.316 all have an ego about our playing, but he had 1:02:55.436 --> 1:02:58.276 very very little ego about his playing in relation to 1:02:58.396 --> 1:03:00.956 what it did in the song. He just wanted the 1:03:01.036 --> 1:03:05.116 songs to shine. And it's not to say that Nathan 1:03:05.196 --> 1:03:07.196 nor Michael didn't want that either, but I think that 1:03:07.316 --> 1:03:09.956 McGirr was very He was very very confident in who 1:03:09.996 --> 1:03:12.916 he was and his abilities and felt comfortable saying like, 1:03:12.956 --> 1:03:14.436 all right, cool, I'll sit out in this one, yeah, 1:03:14.516 --> 1:03:15.796 or get behind the kit. 1:03:15.756 --> 1:03:17.076 Show me what you want me to play. He was 1:03:17.156 --> 1:03:18.636 very cool with it. And it feels like as much 1:03:18.636 --> 1:03:20.916 as this, like you were hitting your stride as a 1:03:20.996 --> 1:03:22.916 songwriter at that point, and maybe Chris was hitting his 1:03:22.996 --> 1:03:25.476 stride as as a producer at that point. Yeah, it 1:03:25.556 --> 1:03:29.156 definitely felt like you two were kind of peeking or 1:03:29.236 --> 1:03:30.956 kind of finally coming into your own at that point 1:03:30.996 --> 1:03:32.836 in your respective boye and then like this new drummer 1:03:32.876 --> 1:03:36.156 comes in with his energy, and it really helped create 1:03:36.756 --> 1:03:39.796 the sound that is Death Cab in a way, you know, 1:03:39.836 --> 1:03:41.396 which is weird to say, because I came into Death 1:03:41.436 --> 1:03:44.116 Cab like photo album smattering of stuff from like we 1:03:44.196 --> 1:03:45.636 have the facts of voting, yes, but like when you 1:03:45.836 --> 1:03:48.276 I remember when I heard Translanticism was like holy shit, 1:03:48.396 --> 1:03:50.676 like you wanted to listen to it. It felt like 1:03:50.756 --> 1:03:53.716 a whole experience from front to back. Same with give Up. 1:03:54.076 --> 1:03:56.316 Well, yeah, I definitely think that. You know, I've gone 1:03:56.316 --> 1:03:58.756 on record a number of times saying that, well, I 1:03:58.796 --> 1:04:00.636 think there's some great songs on the photo album. It's 1:04:00.676 --> 1:04:03.556 one of my least favorite albums that we've made, primarily 1:04:03.636 --> 1:04:06.076 because of the climate in which. 1:04:05.876 --> 1:04:06.476 We were making it. 1:04:06.956 --> 1:04:08.916 I didn't think we had enough songs, but we had 1:04:08.956 --> 1:04:10.436 to make a record because we had to be on 1:04:10.516 --> 1:04:13.836 the road. We weren't getting along, and you know, Transatlanticism 1:04:13.956 --> 1:04:16.796 and give Up as well, but certainly Translenticism is the 1:04:16.956 --> 1:04:20.756 sound of for people who are all on the same page, 1:04:21.556 --> 1:04:26.516 enjoying each other's company, getting along all with the this 1:04:26.796 --> 1:04:30.836 with the common goal. I'm sure there, of course are wonderful, amazing, 1:04:31.596 --> 1:04:34.956 genre defining records that were made under duress or with 1:04:35.396 --> 1:04:38.956 addicts or people fist fighting in the studio or whatever like. 1:04:39.436 --> 1:04:42.316 But it's been my experience that, at least for me, 1:04:42.516 --> 1:04:44.356 the best stuff that I've ever been involved with has 1:04:44.436 --> 1:04:50.836 been the product of free and easy communication, love and 1:04:50.956 --> 1:04:55.956 respect and the focus on a common goal and translanticism 1:04:56.236 --> 1:04:58.196 and give up for that matter. But again, very much 1:04:58.236 --> 1:05:01.756 translanticism is a product of that. It's a it's a 1:05:01.836 --> 1:05:06.116 record made out of with love and respect we all 1:05:06.596 --> 1:05:09.036 and you know, we would make records. We have made 1:05:09.116 --> 1:05:12.796 records since then that we're not necessarily made under those circumstances. 1:05:12.836 --> 1:05:15.556 But you know, I think it was getting close to 1:05:15.636 --> 1:05:17.996 breaking up and then pulling back and being like, no, 1:05:18.156 --> 1:05:19.876 we all love each other, we really want to do this. 1:05:20.516 --> 1:05:21.236 We're just a bunch of. 1:05:21.276 --> 1:05:22.996 Dipshits in our mid twenties who don't know how to 1:05:22.996 --> 1:05:25.676 communicate with each other. Yeah, let's kind of let's take 1:05:25.676 --> 1:05:28.156 a step back and take some time away and then 1:05:28.276 --> 1:05:31.236 come back at this and you know, do the best 1:05:31.276 --> 1:05:31.516 we can. 1:05:32.716 --> 1:05:34.636 We're going to take one last break and then come 1:05:34.716 --> 1:05:41.116 back with more from Ben Gibberd. Before we hear the 1:05:41.156 --> 1:05:43.636 rest of my conversation with Ben Gibberd, let's hear him 1:05:43.676 --> 1:05:46.516 play Death Cabs Song, Tiny Vessels. 1:05:50.276 --> 1:05:51.756 This is the moment. 1:05:53.436 --> 1:05:54.116 That you know. 1:05:56.556 --> 1:06:00.396 That you told her that you love to butcher Joan. 1:06:02.476 --> 1:06:09.996 You touch her skin and then you think that she's beautiful, 1:06:10.596 --> 1:06:14.996 but she don't need a thing to me. Yes, she 1:06:15.276 --> 1:06:26.996 is beautiful, but she don't need a thing. He I 1:06:27.196 --> 1:06:31.196 spent two weeks in silver late. 1:06:33.156 --> 1:06:37.236 The California son cascading down my face. 1:06:39.356 --> 1:06:40.636 There was a girl. 1:06:42.516 --> 1:06:48.236 Light Brown Street, and she was beautiful, but she didn't 1:06:48.316 --> 1:06:53.676 need a thing to me. Yes, she was beautiful, but 1:06:53.836 --> 1:06:54.796 she didn't need a. 1:06:54.876 --> 1:06:55.516 Thing to me. 1:07:01.756 --> 1:07:06.316 I wanted silverly and all the words that I was 1:07:06.556 --> 1:07:14.916 speaking as we moved to the dark, all the friends 1:07:14.996 --> 1:07:19.956 that I was telling, all the playful, the misspellings, and 1:07:20.116 --> 1:07:27.996 I'm free why I gave it left when signy that 1:07:28.236 --> 1:07:32.356 soul zoos didn't see your neck then formed the bruises 1:07:32.876 --> 1:07:37.076 that you sent you to long to faith. 1:07:39.276 --> 1:08:02.756 Both they did and sigh that day all I see 1:08:04.676 --> 1:08:11.796 dark ring clown in the distance, smoothing closer with every hour. 1:08:13.796 --> 1:08:19.956 So when you that there's something wrong, I think you're 1:08:20.196 --> 1:08:23.276 damn right there is, but we can't talk. 1:08:23.236 --> 1:08:27.196 About it now, and we can't talk about it now. 1:08:38.756 --> 1:08:40.596 So one last time. 1:08:41.876 --> 1:08:47.196 And then you'll go and we'll pretend that it meant 1:08:47.476 --> 1:08:54.596 something so much more. But it was vile and it 1:08:55.076 --> 1:08:56.076 was cheating. 1:08:57.396 --> 1:09:03.676 And you are beautiful, but your tone me to thing me. Yeah, 1:09:03.876 --> 1:09:10.196 you are beautiful, but your tone a thing. Yeah you 1:09:10.436 --> 1:09:13.916 are beautiful, but you tone mean a thing me. 1:09:26.636 --> 1:09:29.476 It's a beautiful song, thank you, And there's a level 1:09:29.516 --> 1:09:32.636 of that songs biographical. You were living in Silver Lake 1:09:32.716 --> 1:09:35.236 at some point during the writing of that record, right. 1:09:35.436 --> 1:09:38.636 The story takes place kind of bringing around to give up. 1:09:39.796 --> 1:09:42.916 I was down in Silver Lake working on the Post 1:09:42.916 --> 1:09:45.996 Service record at Jimmy's house. So I'd been seeing this 1:09:46.156 --> 1:09:49.436 woman for a period of time who I had I 1:09:49.476 --> 1:09:51.476 had been obsessed with for a long time, and we 1:09:51.556 --> 1:09:55.836 were finally dating and we just we just kind of 1:09:55.916 --> 1:09:58.836 weren't good together. It just didn't work. And yet, you know, 1:09:58.916 --> 1:10:02.156 I kind of internalized a lot of the failures of 1:10:02.196 --> 1:10:05.076 the relationship on my inability to see from a very 1:10:05.156 --> 1:10:07.916 early point that we were not compatible because I was 1:10:07.956 --> 1:10:11.116 completely I was what's the word. It was somebody that 1:10:11.156 --> 1:10:13.596 I had been just I had lusted over for so long, 1:10:14.556 --> 1:10:17.436 and then you kind of realize that, like sex with 1:10:17.516 --> 1:10:20.876 beautiful people is a lot of fun, but it's not 1:10:21.116 --> 1:10:22.916 without at least for me. It's certainly at that time 1:10:22.996 --> 1:10:25.916 my life in this particular relationship without a really kind 1:10:25.916 --> 1:10:28.836 of strong connection, it started to feel very empty, and 1:10:28.916 --> 1:10:30.236 I started to feel as if I was in it 1:10:30.276 --> 1:10:33.916 for the wrong reasons. And when the person who's the 1:10:33.956 --> 1:10:37.796 subject of the song first heard it, they were really upset. Understandably, 1:10:38.316 --> 1:10:40.716 what I hope comes through in the song is not 1:10:40.916 --> 1:10:44.756 so much that it's not an indictment of the person 1:10:44.956 --> 1:10:47.756 that I'm singing to. It's an indictment of myself and 1:10:47.916 --> 1:10:49.476 to me. And the real kind of core of the 1:10:49.556 --> 1:10:51.796 song is in the bridge, where it's like I wanted 1:10:51.836 --> 1:10:53.836 to believe in all the words I was speaking. I 1:10:53.956 --> 1:10:57.276 wanted to like, you know, I was over committing. I 1:10:57.436 --> 1:11:00.796 was trying to convince myself that I had stronger feelings 1:11:00.876 --> 1:11:03.756 that this was more than what it was, which was 1:11:03.916 --> 1:11:08.356 just an extension of my desire for this person, physical desire, 1:11:09.196 --> 1:11:12.636 rather than a sense of connection away from that, you know, 1:11:13.116 --> 1:11:15.916 and you know, years later we have we're on very 1:11:15.956 --> 1:11:16.396 good terms. 1:11:16.436 --> 1:11:17.396 We're friends. That's fine. 1:11:17.596 --> 1:11:19.956 I wrote a lot of songs about her. In fact, 1:11:20.276 --> 1:11:21.996 you know, the song Such Great Heights is about her 1:11:22.036 --> 1:11:25.276 as well. Really so yeah, so you know, she she 1:11:25.436 --> 1:11:27.556 kind of she exists throughout these records in a very 1:11:27.596 --> 1:11:30.116 interesting way. Same with Lightness. The song Lightness is about 1:11:30.156 --> 1:11:32.956 her as well. So there's kind of a there's an 1:11:32.996 --> 1:11:36.116 interesting kind of arc between these records about this person, 1:11:36.676 --> 1:11:39.236 where in a song like Lightness, it's this like it's 1:11:39.276 --> 1:11:42.836 the desire, it's the yearning, and then Such Great Heights 1:11:42.956 --> 1:11:46.436 is the culmination of like all the feelings, and then 1:11:46.756 --> 1:11:49.996 Tiny Vessels is the letdown. You know, it's it's the 1:11:50.036 --> 1:11:52.436 realization that, oh I never actually felt this way. I 1:11:52.556 --> 1:11:53.756 just got swept up, you know. 1:11:54.076 --> 1:11:57.316 And twenty years later she feel pretty flattered in a way, 1:11:57.396 --> 1:11:59.436 or be you know, I would feel that way, you know, 1:11:59.596 --> 1:12:00.316 I mean, if you go to some. 1:12:00.476 --> 1:12:02.516 I mean we're friend, we're friends now, so it's yeah, 1:12:02.516 --> 1:12:04.116 I mean I think that you know, like any as 1:12:04.356 --> 1:12:06.756 as a lot of things. You know, it's like so funny, 1:12:06.796 --> 1:12:08.076 we were just talking a couple of days ago, and 1:12:08.636 --> 1:12:10.716 we were both commenting about what dipshits we were when 1:12:10.716 --> 1:12:13.396 we were twenty five, you know, really like things. 1:12:14.196 --> 1:12:14.956 Yeah, like we're. 1:12:16.596 --> 1:12:18.516 I think I'm a lot better person at forty six. 1:12:18.396 --> 1:12:21.756 Than I was at twenty five. You know, is it 1:12:21.916 --> 1:12:24.436 hard like a song like that now? Like I don't know, 1:12:24.556 --> 1:12:26.236 I mean, you're going to go on a tour. I 1:12:26.236 --> 1:12:28.116 don't know if you'll play that song or not. Hopefully 1:12:28.116 --> 1:12:29.236 you do. It's great. I want to hear it. 1:12:29.276 --> 1:12:31.436 Oh of course, yeah, well we're yeah, we well the 1:12:31.516 --> 1:12:33.316 tour that we're doing in the fall with these records 1:12:33.356 --> 1:12:35.276 were you know, we're playing them start to finish. 1:12:35.796 --> 1:12:37.516 I didn't realize was going to play both start to finish. 1:12:37.996 --> 1:12:38.796 Yeah that's the plan. 1:12:38.956 --> 1:12:41.516 Yeah, so yeah, so it starts, it's the show will 1:12:41.556 --> 1:12:45.756 be essensibly like Translentiism, start to finish, short break, give up. 1:12:45.796 --> 1:12:47.596 Start to finish. That's going to be great experience. 1:12:47.716 --> 1:12:47.836 You know. 1:12:48.316 --> 1:12:50.796 It's kind of a product of I think these this 1:12:50.996 --> 1:12:53.236 kind of format as a product of a streaming era 1:12:53.676 --> 1:12:55.476 in that I don't remember who was the first one 1:12:55.556 --> 1:12:57.436 to do these shows. I believe it was some promoters 1:12:57.476 --> 1:13:00.276 in England like fifteen years ago that started doing these, 1:13:00.356 --> 1:13:03.076 like invited a band to play their assemble album and 1:13:03.116 --> 1:13:04.716 it's kind of yeah, I've kind of taken off and 1:13:05.196 --> 1:13:07.916 from a you know, you know, a concert goers perspective, 1:13:07.956 --> 1:13:10.676 it's really kind of a nice as to go and pretty. 1:13:10.436 --> 1:13:11.316 Much know what you're gonna get. 1:13:11.396 --> 1:13:13.756 Yeah, you know, I mean, obviously, sometimes you go see 1:13:13.796 --> 1:13:15.156 a band and you're with your friends, like, I hope 1:13:15.196 --> 1:13:16.796 they play that song from the third record. You know, 1:13:16.876 --> 1:13:19.276 we've all done that, right, and sometimes like they played 1:13:19.316 --> 1:13:20.956 everything I wanted them to hear, Like they didn't play 1:13:21.116 --> 1:13:23.476 fucking anything I wanted them to hear. Those guys, right, Yeah, 1:13:23.836 --> 1:13:26.156 but in this case, you know, if what you're looking 1:13:26.196 --> 1:13:28.036 for is hearing these records, you will want you will 1:13:28.116 --> 1:13:29.956 hopefully not go home disappointed. 1:13:30.076 --> 1:13:31.836 So yeah, we'll definitely be playing that one. I mean, 1:13:31.876 --> 1:13:35.076 a song like that that's obviously highly personal and you 1:13:36.036 --> 1:13:40.716 it's it's so biographical. Is it hard to access the 1:13:40.796 --> 1:13:42.636 motion of it? Again? Is it? Is it almost too 1:13:42.716 --> 1:13:45.076 easy and you try not to? Or how do you 1:13:45.476 --> 1:13:47.996 perform it in a way that honors the song but 1:13:48.156 --> 1:13:51.156 without almost going back to that place you were twenty 1:13:51.236 --> 1:13:51.956 years ago writing it? 1:13:52.076 --> 1:13:54.276 I guess I wrote I wrote tiny vessels when I 1:13:54.396 --> 1:13:57.676 was twenty six. I think I'm forty six now, so 1:13:57.716 --> 1:13:59.596 it's been twenty years since I wrote the song, and 1:13:59.876 --> 1:14:01.516 you know, there's a part of me that has to 1:14:01.676 --> 1:14:07.076 exist in that headspace for the three or four minutes 1:14:07.156 --> 1:14:09.796 that we're playing that song. But it's not it's not 1:14:09.916 --> 1:14:12.716 the extent of like have you seen Walkhard the Dewey 1:14:12.796 --> 1:14:14.996 Cops story, where it's like, you know, Dewey has to 1:14:15.116 --> 1:14:16.596 you know, he's sitting in a corner by himself and 1:14:16.596 --> 1:14:18.796 somebody's like, don't bother me. He has to relive every 1:14:18.836 --> 1:14:20.836 moment of his life before he goes on stage. You know, 1:14:21.396 --> 1:14:23.596 it's not it's not quite that dramatic. But I do 1:14:23.796 --> 1:14:27.036 find that when I'm performing a song, I do try 1:14:27.076 --> 1:14:30.396 to place myself back in, reconnecting with the imagery that 1:14:30.996 --> 1:14:33.036 made me want to write that song in the first place. 1:14:33.116 --> 1:14:35.316 So it's like, it's as if, you know, it's kind 1:14:35.316 --> 1:14:38.076 of a slightly pretentious thing to call songs like little movies, 1:14:38.596 --> 1:14:42.516 but there is there's a collection of imagery that was 1:14:42.596 --> 1:14:45.236 in my mind when I wrote that song, and I 1:14:45.676 --> 1:14:49.116 find myself accessing that again. I don't place, I don't 1:14:49.116 --> 1:14:52.516 place the narrative in my mind in a contemporary context 1:14:52.596 --> 1:14:54.876 or in my life now, So it can be a 1:14:54.876 --> 1:14:57.916 little bit of a headfuck to it. Certainly with a 1:14:57.956 --> 1:15:00.796 lot of my songs, be kind of reintroducing yourself to 1:15:00.876 --> 1:15:04.516 all of your failings every night. But at the same time, 1:15:04.596 --> 1:15:06.676 I think it's also a really wonderful way to gain 1:15:06.716 --> 1:15:09.156 perspective on where you are in your life today. I 1:15:09.156 --> 1:15:10.716 play a song I wrote when I was twenty, and 1:15:11.236 --> 1:15:13.996 the lyrics are by a twenty year old. That's not 1:15:14.076 --> 1:15:15.556 to say that they're good or bad, but that's just 1:15:15.556 --> 1:15:19.596 who they were written by. And there are very few things, thankfully, 1:15:19.676 --> 1:15:21.636 that resonate in that song that I wrote when I 1:15:21.716 --> 1:15:24.356 was twenty with my forty six year old self. You know, 1:15:24.396 --> 1:15:28.996 I'm an emotionally, hopefully slightly developed person at least since then. 1:15:29.596 --> 1:15:31.996 So yeah, I do find I do place myself in 1:15:32.076 --> 1:15:33.996 the song. I remember who the songs were about. I 1:15:34.116 --> 1:15:38.236 kind of pay I have to the honor them forgiving 1:15:38.316 --> 1:15:41.076 me the song by kind of thinking about them. 1:15:41.556 --> 1:15:44.596 I'm performing them. You know, you mentioned the imagery involved 1:15:44.596 --> 1:15:48.196 with writing songs. The songs, particularly in translanticism, I feel 1:15:48.436 --> 1:15:50.156 are so and it was one of the things that 1:15:50.196 --> 1:15:53.516 struck me from the very first time hearing it. They 1:15:53.556 --> 1:15:56.316 are really visual, Like I mean, just even that theme 1:15:56.436 --> 1:15:58.876 tiny vessels and the and the bruise, and that leaves 1:15:58.876 --> 1:16:01.036 and then it goes. You know, it's like a title registration, 1:16:01.196 --> 1:16:04.436 same thing. And I noticed with title registration though on 1:16:04.596 --> 1:16:07.396 the demo version the lyrics were a little different. The 1:16:07.436 --> 1:16:09.836 album version was much more leaned into the imagery of 1:16:10.316 --> 1:16:14.276 the glove compartment. Going for the documentation. There's a lot 1:16:14.316 --> 1:16:16.796 of beautiful imagery in that record, and I love the 1:16:16.876 --> 1:16:19.476 way that it's it's it's all weave together, all kind 1:16:19.516 --> 1:16:20.036 of wraps up. 1:16:20.316 --> 1:16:20.956 Thank you. Yeah. 1:16:20.996 --> 1:16:23.676 I mean, I think the first three records be it 1:16:23.796 --> 1:16:26.316 not by design, but just by default. I think the 1:16:26.476 --> 1:16:29.276 lyrics ended up being a little bit more obtuse and 1:16:29.396 --> 1:16:33.556 a little bit more like Stipeen than, you know, than 1:16:33.636 --> 1:16:36.236 Gibbardian in the sense where I was I was writing 1:16:36.276 --> 1:16:38.036 these I think when you like kind of when I 1:16:38.116 --> 1:16:40.436 call through the lyrics of the first three records, you know, 1:16:40.476 --> 1:16:43.116 there are some songs that are kind of relatively straight narratives. 1:16:43.156 --> 1:16:44.716 There's a lot of songs that are kind of they're 1:16:44.716 --> 1:16:48.076 a little they're more obtuse, a little more impressionistic. And 1:16:48.156 --> 1:16:51.556 I think by the time I was writing stuff for Translanticism, 1:16:51.636 --> 1:16:53.676 I started to really lean into this idea of I 1:16:53.796 --> 1:16:56.996 want people to hear the song one time and be 1:16:57.036 --> 1:17:00.396 able to see it, yeah, to see something rather than like, 1:17:00.716 --> 1:17:03.596 you know, like I was listening to like RIM's Reckoning 1:17:03.676 --> 1:17:05.676 not that long ago, and which is I've been listening 1:17:05.716 --> 1:17:08.516 to for thirty five years or whatever, and I still 1:17:08.596 --> 1:17:09.956 know what the fun he's talking about in a lot 1:17:09.956 --> 1:17:11.636 of these songs, right, you know, And I haven't and 1:17:11.956 --> 1:17:14.916 I've never actually delved into the lyrics and tried to 1:17:14.996 --> 1:17:17.476 decipher them, you know. But then again, you put on 1:17:17.596 --> 1:17:20.116 songs amount of time and you're right there, You're like 1:17:20.916 --> 1:17:23.756 you put on Losing My Religion or Low or any 1:17:23.796 --> 1:17:25.076 of the songs and you're just like, wow, yeah, no, 1:17:25.116 --> 1:17:26.916 I get it. I'm here, like you know, Me and 1:17:26.996 --> 1:17:30.356 Honey a fucking amazing song. And you know, I wouldn't 1:17:30.356 --> 1:17:33.116 say that the lyrics got better for myself or for 1:17:33.356 --> 1:17:37.596 Michael Stipe as much as you know, the obtuseness, the 1:17:37.796 --> 1:17:40.956 abstractness started to kind of become a little bit more 1:17:41.036 --> 1:17:45.156 literal and a little bit more observational. And so I 1:17:45.196 --> 1:17:47.876 guess when I'm writing a song now, or or certainly 1:17:48.196 --> 1:17:51.396 around translanticism. You know, the idea would be you listen 1:17:51.436 --> 1:17:53.436 to it once you understand what the song's about, but 1:17:53.476 --> 1:17:55.076 there are turns of phrase that you go like, well, 1:17:55.116 --> 1:17:55.756 what did you just say? 1:17:56.756 --> 1:17:57.516 That was fucking cool? 1:17:57.516 --> 1:17:57.876 I like that. 1:17:58.356 --> 1:18:01.076 But I think on some of the earlier records there 1:18:01.116 --> 1:18:03.516 are so many kind of obscure turns of phrases that 1:18:04.196 --> 1:18:06.636 in the less effective moments, it's kind of a word salad. 1:18:06.716 --> 1:18:08.276 It's a much more eloquent way of saying what I 1:18:08.436 --> 1:18:10.556 was trying to say. Yeah, there's these. 1:18:10.596 --> 1:18:12.596 Yeah, I mean it's it's like that's but that's kind 1:18:12.596 --> 1:18:13.756 of the idea, right, you want to kind of like 1:18:13.916 --> 1:18:16.396 I the hope is not to tip too far into 1:18:17.236 --> 1:18:19.916 bland writing, you know, where you're just kind of writing 1:18:20.356 --> 1:18:22.916 I'm happy, I'm sad this thing happened. 1:18:23.236 --> 1:18:25.276 Yeah, So that the goal is to kind of. 1:18:25.476 --> 1:18:27.236 Virtually everything I've written since has been like I want 1:18:27.276 --> 1:18:28.636 people to be able to put it on and they 1:18:28.716 --> 1:18:30.956 hear it once and they get it, but then there's 1:18:31.036 --> 1:18:31.836 things to go back to you. 1:18:31.836 --> 1:18:33.236 And kind of like what did you say there? Yeah? 1:18:33.236 --> 1:18:35.276 I like that, yeah, And you know, sometimes I pull 1:18:35.316 --> 1:18:36.156 it off sometimes I don't. 1:18:36.236 --> 1:18:38.596 Yeah, it's incredible. I don't want to keep you too long. 1:18:38.716 --> 1:18:40.876 Can we do a post server song? 1:18:40.956 --> 1:18:43.876 And yeah, for sure, Yeah I got I think I 1:18:44.076 --> 1:18:47.476 know which one would be good here, m h. 1:19:00.156 --> 1:19:04.156 I'll be the grapes ferments is bottled and served, the 1:19:04.316 --> 1:19:08.276 table set and my fine is like a perfect chance 1:19:08.396 --> 1:19:12.596 was now. I'll be the fire escape that's bolted to 1:19:13.196 --> 1:19:14.596 the ancient brick. 1:19:14.716 --> 1:19:31.676 Where you will set and contemplate your day. I'll be 1:19:32.236 --> 1:19:35.996 the water wings that save you if you start drowning 1:19:36.116 --> 1:19:39.876 in an open tat, and your judgments on the plain. 1:19:40.516 --> 1:19:43.756 I'll be the phone, a graph that play is your 1:19:43.836 --> 1:19:49.356 favorite album's back as your line fifteen off to sleep. 1:19:52.956 --> 1:19:57.596 I'll be the platform shoes undo what heredities stunned to 1:19:57.756 --> 1:20:02.116 you you'll have to string to look into my eyes. 1:20:02.236 --> 1:20:06.716 I'll be your winter coat buttons zip straight to the 1:20:06.916 --> 1:20:07.676 throat with the. 1:20:07.796 --> 1:20:11.076 Call so you won't catch cold. 1:20:12.436 --> 1:20:16.436 I want to take you far from this cynics in 1:20:16.676 --> 1:20:22.156 this town and kiss you on the mouth. We'll cut 1:20:22.356 --> 1:20:27.756 our bodies free from that severs of this scene, start 1:20:27.836 --> 1:20:32.956 a brand new colony where everything will change. 1:20:33.756 --> 1:20:38.636 We'll give ourselves new name. I did it, He's or. 1:20:38.676 --> 1:20:44.716 Right The sun will heat the crown under our bare 1:20:44.836 --> 1:21:03.556 feet in this brand new colony, this brand new colony, and. 1:21:05.916 --> 1:21:53.396 Every thing will shame. A free things will shame, then 1:21:53.756 --> 1:22:00.316 a free things will shame. 1:22:09.956 --> 1:22:12.516 That was really beautiful. Thanks man, Thank you. It occurred 1:22:12.556 --> 1:22:14.356 to me listening to that brought up O Kade Fire 1:22:14.356 --> 1:22:16.516 earlier and not for nothing. I mean, I feel like 1:22:16.716 --> 1:22:21.476 give up translanticism. A year later, ArKade Fire's Funeral kind 1:22:21.516 --> 1:22:24.636 of felt like indie rock growing up finally in a 1:22:24.676 --> 1:22:25.156 weird way. 1:22:25.276 --> 1:22:25.436 You know. 1:22:25.556 --> 1:22:27.636 It's like like to your point of like it sort 1:22:27.676 --> 1:22:30.076 of started to permeate into popular culture at that time. 1:22:30.156 --> 1:22:32.916 Like the songwriting on these two records are incredible, and 1:22:33.156 --> 1:22:35.956 what a great time for music. 1:22:36.396 --> 1:22:38.276 Yeah, I mean, you know, I obviously being a part 1:22:38.316 --> 1:22:39.876 of it, you know, it's in my best interest to 1:22:39.956 --> 1:22:42.716 kind of take that position as well. But yeah, you know, 1:22:42.796 --> 1:22:45.356 it just felt like none of us would have had 1:22:45.996 --> 1:22:49.796 the careers we have had or the popularity of success 1:22:49.836 --> 1:22:53.996 that we had about all of the artists that kind 1:22:54.036 --> 1:22:56.836 of laid the groundwork for us in the nineties and 1:22:56.876 --> 1:22:59.156 even before that, you know, So there's a lot of 1:22:59.196 --> 1:23:00.916 bands that you know, we talked about earlier that I 1:23:00.956 --> 1:23:03.996 grew up with that. You know, I felt to this 1:23:04.116 --> 1:23:07.036 day I still deserve more lip service, you know, but 1:23:07.196 --> 1:23:10.356 I suppose that sometime is sometimes is the blessing and 1:23:10.436 --> 1:23:13.716 the curse of being, you know, a cult influence. 1:23:13.876 --> 1:23:16.276 You know, it's fair enough, but you know, I'm sure, 1:23:16.396 --> 1:23:18.636 I don't know. I mean, it feels like a decade 1:23:18.636 --> 1:23:22.156 by decade, so many cult influences are kind of getting 1:23:22.196 --> 1:23:25.996 their dune. I'm sure. I'm sure it'll it'll get there 1:23:26.076 --> 1:23:26.556 at some point. 1:23:26.716 --> 1:23:28.836 Yeah, well, you see the works of Numero's doing on 1:23:28.996 --> 1:23:31.716 behalf of you know, a lot of a lot of bands. 1:23:31.556 --> 1:23:33.676 Favorite music, A lot is coming from like stuff you know, 1:23:33.756 --> 1:23:36.276 from like the stuff like Numero's putting out or whatever. 1:23:36.356 --> 1:23:39.596 You're like, like Jesus, Yeah, they're doing a phenomenal job. 1:23:39.756 --> 1:23:43.516 And there's a band called Rex that was really influential 1:23:43.716 --> 1:23:47.716 and important to me and Numero. You know there there's 1:23:47.796 --> 1:23:49.516 one a couple of their records that were not available 1:23:49.516 --> 1:23:52.516 on vinyl, and then Lo and Behold coming out in Numeros, 1:23:52.556 --> 1:23:54.636 So I like pre ordered that ship immediately. 1:23:54.676 --> 1:23:55.556 I was like, got to have that. 1:23:56.396 --> 1:23:59.356 Our friends in this band called the American Analog Set, 1:23:59.396 --> 1:24:03.236 who are from Austin Numeros doing a rereleasing their first 1:24:03.276 --> 1:24:05.796 three records, which are wonderful albums. So yeah, I mean, 1:24:06.036 --> 1:24:08.796 it's it's it's really it's it's really kind of heartening 1:24:08.836 --> 1:24:10.996 to see a lot of this music kind of have 1:24:11.076 --> 1:24:13.356 a second life. And it's also been just incredibly interesting 1:24:13.396 --> 1:24:17.316 to see what stuff has kind of been hitting in 1:24:17.396 --> 1:24:19.676 the culture in a way that I never would have 1:24:19.916 --> 1:24:22.556 imagined it doing. I mean, like, you know, I love Unwound. 1:24:22.636 --> 1:24:23.836 I think they're really important to me. 1:24:23.876 --> 1:24:25.756 I never in a million years thought that Unwound would 1:24:25.756 --> 1:24:27.316 be a popular band in twenty twenty three. 1:24:27.396 --> 1:24:29.836 I think that's fucking awesome. It's amazing. But it's a. 1:24:29.836 --> 1:24:31.996 Testament to like, yeah, you make great shit. It might 1:24:32.076 --> 1:24:34.396 not hit like in the in it might be before 1:24:34.396 --> 1:24:35.476 it's time, you know. 1:24:35.556 --> 1:24:37.196 There. You know, a lot of this music, a lot. 1:24:37.076 --> 1:24:41.076 Of this books, film, culture, whatever is being kind of 1:24:41.236 --> 1:24:43.436 is resurfacing and finding a new audience. 1:24:43.436 --> 1:24:44.956 And I think that's just how one with you. Man. 1:24:44.996 --> 1:24:46.796 My biggest fear is in dying. My biggest fear is 1:24:46.876 --> 1:24:49.716 dying before like my next favorite record kids, you know, 1:24:49.876 --> 1:24:52.996 uncovered from the sixties or some shit, you know. 1:24:53.796 --> 1:24:55.596 Yeah, exactly, I'm so waiting for somebody to put out 1:24:55.676 --> 1:24:58.396 like a a retrospective of this band called the Dovers 1:24:58.996 --> 1:25:01.596 like who that I loved in the sixties. So maybe 1:25:01.596 --> 1:25:03.436 I don't know if it's good for Numero, but somebody, 1:25:03.476 --> 1:25:04.436 somebody out there listening to. 1:25:04.716 --> 1:25:07.356 Someone hears that they do it. Speaking of an American 1:25:07.356 --> 1:25:09.956 Allocks it too. Always always loved Diversion, a choir vandalist. 1:25:09.996 --> 1:25:11.636 It was on the on the Oh thank you at 1:25:11.636 --> 1:25:14.276 Home EP. You guys did that's buddy. 1:25:14.156 --> 1:25:14.676 Yeah, those guys. 1:25:14.716 --> 1:25:16.676 But we became friends with those guys. I think we 1:25:16.756 --> 1:25:19.636 met them at Southwest Southwest in ninety nine. It was 1:25:19.676 --> 1:25:22.076 the first band that we had become friends with outside 1:25:22.116 --> 1:25:27.036 of our immediate circle in Seattle or Bellingham. And you know, yeah, 1:25:27.076 --> 1:25:29.556 we did some early touring with them, and you know, 1:25:29.676 --> 1:25:32.116 there are friends to this day. I literally saw, you know, 1:25:32.156 --> 1:25:33.556 I saw a couple of them in Austin, and saw 1:25:33.636 --> 1:25:35.116 when we were in Berlin. One of the guys lives 1:25:35.116 --> 1:25:37.156 in Berlin now, so we've we've maintained a friendship over 1:25:37.196 --> 1:25:39.396 the years. Yeah, they're wonderful people, great band. 1:25:39.476 --> 1:25:41.676 It's amazing. It's wild. It's wild to be in a 1:25:41.716 --> 1:25:43.436 place in my life now where I'm saying shit like now, 1:25:43.476 --> 1:25:43.756 you got. 1:25:43.756 --> 1:25:45.996 To understand this was nineteen ninety eight. You know, we 1:25:46.076 --> 1:25:49.276 didn't have for fucking iPhone. You couldn't just dial up 1:25:49.316 --> 1:25:51.196 a whole food so you couldn't get Ubert who Eats to. 1:25:51.156 --> 1:25:51.876 Bring your food. You know. 1:25:51.916 --> 1:25:55.116 It's like I've been working with some younger artists working 1:25:55.156 --> 1:25:58.956 on music here and there, and it's like, you know, 1:25:59.036 --> 1:26:00.036 it's like, I think one of the things that we're 1:26:00.036 --> 1:26:03.596 about getting older is that you're seeing the world through 1:26:03.876 --> 1:26:05.676 you know, in your mind you look through your eyes 1:26:05.716 --> 1:26:07.596 are still like twenty five or whatever. You know, you're 1:26:07.596 --> 1:26:10.116 still like but then you're around young people and you think, like, 1:26:10.196 --> 1:26:12.356 I'm one of you, I'm a young person. And then 1:26:12.356 --> 1:26:14.676 you start talking at them and you see them glaze 1:26:14.716 --> 1:26:16.796 over and you're like, oh no, I'm like they're day yeah, yeah, 1:26:16.956 --> 1:26:18.956 like I'm talking about some I'm on some shit that 1:26:19.116 --> 1:26:20.996 like they have no fucking idea, and it's like why 1:26:21.036 --> 1:26:23.676 should they they don't. It's like they shouldn't know who 1:26:24.836 --> 1:26:25.436 Slint is. 1:26:25.596 --> 1:26:26.796 They don't. Why would they fucking go? 1:26:26.956 --> 1:26:28.796 You know, they got their own they got you know, 1:26:28.836 --> 1:26:29.916 they got their own bands. 1:26:29.956 --> 1:26:31.236 You know, they don't need our band less you know, 1:26:31.676 --> 1:26:33.196 you know, the fun's up things like I'm not even 1:26:33.236 --> 1:26:36.036 I'm thirty three, and so I should still feel a 1:26:36.076 --> 1:26:40.196 little young. But I think because I grew up for 1:26:40.356 --> 1:26:41.996 a fair amount of time, and maybe it's just because 1:26:41.996 --> 1:26:44.356 my family was poor. You know, we had the internet 1:26:44.436 --> 1:26:46.356 much later, and like we didn't even have like we 1:26:46.396 --> 1:26:48.076 didn't have cable and stuff. So like there was there 1:26:48.156 --> 1:26:50.276 was a bit of a fair amount of my life. 1:26:50.316 --> 1:26:51.596 It was like tethered to the real world. 1:26:51.636 --> 1:26:51.756 You know. 1:26:51.796 --> 1:26:54.876 I teach a college course and it's like the fuck. 1:26:54.916 --> 1:26:57.876 It's like, fuck, I'm I am a fucking dinosaur to 1:26:57.916 --> 1:26:58.316 these people. 1:26:58.476 --> 1:26:58.636 You know. 1:26:59.356 --> 1:27:02.156 Yeah, man, dude, I know the feeling. But you know what, 1:27:02.396 --> 1:27:05.036 like with age comes wisdom, you know. I don't know 1:27:05.076 --> 1:27:07.116 if anybody, if anybody wants it, but like. 1:27:07.916 --> 1:27:10.796 Yeah, it's it's it's been a try it ma'am. Ben Gibbert, 1:27:10.796 --> 1:27:12.996 thank you so much, man. I appreciate you taking the time. 1:27:13.076 --> 1:27:16.116 It's I mean, and thank you for the music most 1:27:16.196 --> 1:27:17.476 of all more than anything. 1:27:17.556 --> 1:27:20.156 Oh, I really appreciate you having me on me. I'm 1:27:20.156 --> 1:27:21.636 a fan of what you guys do on this pod, 1:27:21.756 --> 1:27:23.116 so it's nice to be a guest. 1:27:26.356 --> 1:27:28.436 Thanks to Ben Gibbert for playing live for us and 1:27:28.596 --> 1:27:32.916 going deep on his writing and album creation process. You 1:27:32.956 --> 1:27:34.956 can hear all of our favorite Ben Gibberd songs on 1:27:35.076 --> 1:27:38.556 a playlist at broken record podcast dot com. You can 1:27:38.556 --> 1:27:41.956 subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash 1:27:42.076 --> 1:27:44.676 broken Record Podcast, where you can find all of our 1:27:44.756 --> 1:27:48.996 new episodes. Broken Record is produced with help from Leah Rose, 1:27:49.196 --> 1:27:54.756 Jason Gambrell, Ben Talliday, Nisha Venkat, Jordan McMillan, and Eric Sanderman. 1:27:55.356 --> 1:27:59.636 Our editor is Sophie Crane. Broken Record is a production 1:27:59.756 --> 1:28:02.556 of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others 1:28:02.556 --> 1:28:07.236 from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is 1:28:07.276 --> 1:28:11.236 a podcast subscription service that offers bonus content and uninterrupted 1:28:11.356 --> 1:28:14.276 ad free listening for only four ninety nine a month. 1:28:15.076 --> 1:28:19.076 Look for Pushing and Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and 1:28:19.156 --> 1:28:21.276 if you like the show, remember to share, rate, and 1:28:21.356 --> 1:28:24.556 review us on your podcast s app Our themes Expect 1:28:24.556 --> 1:28:26.596 Canny Beats, I'm justin Richmond.