1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:23,236 Speaker 1: Pushkin. In September, Ben Gibbard, the founder of Death Cab 2 00:00:23,396 --> 00:00:26,516 Speaker 1: for CUTI, will set out on a nationwide tour to 3 00:00:26,596 --> 00:00:30,116 Speaker 1: celebrate two very different albums that have come to define 4 00:00:30,276 --> 00:00:34,076 Speaker 1: his career. Both albums came out in two thousand and three. 5 00:00:34,476 --> 00:00:36,436 Speaker 1: The first was called Give Up, and it was a 6 00:00:36,476 --> 00:00:40,796 Speaker 1: collaboration with his friend and producer Jimmy Tamborello. They'd made 7 00:00:40,796 --> 00:00:42,956 Speaker 1: it while Gibberd was taking a break from the relentless 8 00:00:42,956 --> 00:00:46,796 Speaker 1: cycle of touring and releasing music with Deathcab. They called 9 00:00:46,796 --> 00:00:50,836 Speaker 1: their new band The Postal Service. Give Up steadily built momentum, 10 00:00:50,876 --> 00:00:56,956 Speaker 1: found critical acclaim, and eventually became Gibberd's first platinum selling record. Musically, 11 00:00:57,036 --> 00:01:00,556 Speaker 1: The Postal Service incorporated various synth and New Wave inspired 12 00:01:00,596 --> 00:01:05,396 Speaker 1: elements behind Gibberd's confessional songwriting style, which set a precedent 13 00:01:05,476 --> 00:01:08,356 Speaker 1: for many of the indie and electronic releases over the 14 00:01:08,396 --> 00:01:11,876 Speaker 1: following days. Later that same year, Gibbert went back to 15 00:01:11,916 --> 00:01:16,636 Speaker 1: his band roots and released Death Cab for Cuti's breakthrough album, Transatlanticism. 16 00:01:17,396 --> 00:01:20,996 Speaker 1: This fall, Gibbert AND's band will play both Transatlanticism and 17 00:01:21,036 --> 00:01:24,876 Speaker 1: Give Up in their entirety. For someone who listened to 18 00:01:24,916 --> 00:01:27,356 Speaker 1: both of these records incessantly in two thousand and three 19 00:01:27,396 --> 00:01:30,076 Speaker 1: and four. I'm excited to say he'll also play three 20 00:01:30,116 --> 00:01:33,636 Speaker 1: acoustic conditions of songs from those classic records in this episode. 21 00:01:34,036 --> 00:01:36,596 Speaker 1: In today's episode, I also talked to Ben Gibbert about 22 00:01:36,636 --> 00:01:39,036 Speaker 1: the conditions that led to the most successful year of 23 00:01:39,036 --> 00:01:41,916 Speaker 1: his career, and he gets candid about the woman who 24 00:01:41,956 --> 00:01:49,196 Speaker 1: inspired multiple songs on Transatlanticism, including the brutally honest Tiny Vessels. 25 00:01:50,356 --> 00:01:53,596 Speaker 1: This is broken record liner notes for the digital Age. 26 00:01:53,756 --> 00:01:58,636 Speaker 1: I'm justin Mitchman. Here's my interview with Ben Gibbert. Man. 27 00:01:58,636 --> 00:01:59,476 Speaker 1: Thanks for doing this. 28 00:01:59,796 --> 00:02:01,956 Speaker 2: Oh dude, I'm stoked to be here. Thanks for having 29 00:02:01,996 --> 00:02:02,476 Speaker 2: me man. 30 00:02:02,556 --> 00:02:05,436 Speaker 1: I can't believe it's been twenty years since both of 31 00:02:05,476 --> 00:02:08,276 Speaker 1: these records, Translanticism and the Postal Service Record. 32 00:02:08,836 --> 00:02:12,156 Speaker 2: Yeah, time certainly seems to be moving quicker the older 33 00:02:12,196 --> 00:02:14,316 Speaker 2: I get. I felt like just yesterday we passed the 34 00:02:14,356 --> 00:02:15,556 Speaker 2: ten year anniversary. 35 00:02:16,036 --> 00:02:18,516 Speaker 1: That really does feel like yesterday. That tour I went to, 36 00:02:18,596 --> 00:02:21,876 Speaker 1: I saw that tour, and that feels literally like yesterday 37 00:02:22,076 --> 00:02:23,876 Speaker 1: or a year ago or two, you know, not ten. 38 00:02:24,196 --> 00:02:24,436 Speaker 3: Yeah. 39 00:02:24,436 --> 00:02:26,636 Speaker 2: Well, I think we get a pass for the pandemic. 40 00:02:26,996 --> 00:02:29,436 Speaker 2: I think I'm now referring to things that happened in 41 00:02:29,476 --> 00:02:31,676 Speaker 2: my life as if they happened six months ago, but 42 00:02:31,716 --> 00:02:34,716 Speaker 2: they happened in the fall of twenty nineteen. Time has 43 00:02:34,756 --> 00:02:37,556 Speaker 2: become this very amorphous kind of element in my life 44 00:02:37,796 --> 00:02:39,676 Speaker 2: since the pandemic, and I think that might be one 45 00:02:39,676 --> 00:02:41,796 Speaker 2: of the reasons that ten years ago does feel like 46 00:02:41,796 --> 00:02:42,676 Speaker 2: it wasn't that long ago. 47 00:02:42,956 --> 00:02:48,116 Speaker 1: The funny thing is, for me was in hindsight understanding 48 00:02:48,116 --> 00:02:51,036 Speaker 1: that you felt that this period of your life two 49 00:02:51,036 --> 00:02:54,116 Speaker 1: thousand and three was also pretty special, because it was 50 00:02:54,156 --> 00:02:59,676 Speaker 1: special for my relationship to your music. I had stray 51 00:02:59,836 --> 00:03:05,156 Speaker 1: Death Cab tracks leading up to the Postal Service record release. 52 00:03:05,396 --> 00:03:07,636 Speaker 1: But I remember my thirteenth birthday being under a record 53 00:03:07,636 --> 00:03:10,196 Speaker 1: store and the guy being and like, you need to 54 00:03:10,236 --> 00:03:12,516 Speaker 1: check out this Postal Service record. I've never heard of it. 55 00:03:12,596 --> 00:03:15,996 Speaker 4: He goes, this is this is Ben Gibberd from Death 56 00:03:16,036 --> 00:03:18,836 Speaker 4: Cab for CUTI I really okay, I'm ga and he's 57 00:03:18,836 --> 00:03:21,316 Speaker 4: like yeah, and see he's got beats behind explained it 58 00:03:21,356 --> 00:03:22,716 Speaker 4: to me and it's kind of like the weirdest thing, 59 00:03:22,916 --> 00:03:24,036 Speaker 4: but he wouldn't let me leave. 60 00:03:24,356 --> 00:03:25,716 Speaker 1: I think I bought something else just in case I 61 00:03:25,756 --> 00:03:27,276 Speaker 1: didn't like it, but he wouldn't let me leave without 62 00:03:27,276 --> 00:03:30,356 Speaker 1: also buying that. My mom gave me some money, bought it, 63 00:03:30,716 --> 00:03:34,116 Speaker 1: took it home, put it on, and from those first 64 00:03:34,196 --> 00:03:38,076 Speaker 1: opening chords of the District sleeps Alone, my mind was blown. 65 00:03:38,236 --> 00:03:40,916 Speaker 1: It was hard to believe to process that it was 66 00:03:41,236 --> 00:03:45,356 Speaker 1: you from Death Cab for Cutie making this kind of music. 67 00:03:46,036 --> 00:03:49,276 Speaker 1: What were the first songs you wrote for that record? 68 00:03:49,596 --> 00:03:52,396 Speaker 2: I think that the first thing we did might have 69 00:03:52,516 --> 00:03:54,996 Speaker 2: been District sleeps Alone Tonight, the first song on the record, 70 00:03:55,596 --> 00:03:58,556 Speaker 2: because the project had kind of come out of Jimmy 71 00:03:58,596 --> 00:04:02,076 Speaker 2: and my collaboration for his record that he did under 72 00:04:02,076 --> 00:04:03,756 Speaker 2: the name Didn't Tell, and he had a bunch of 73 00:04:03,836 --> 00:04:07,476 Speaker 2: people doing guest vocals on it, and through a mutual friend, 74 00:04:07,596 --> 00:04:08,956 Speaker 2: he got a hold of me and asked me to 75 00:04:08,996 --> 00:04:11,836 Speaker 2: do a tune with him, and that went so well 76 00:04:11,876 --> 00:04:13,676 Speaker 2: that we just kind of decided, like, well, why, yeah, 77 00:04:13,676 --> 00:04:14,836 Speaker 2: do you want to do like an EP of this 78 00:04:14,996 --> 00:04:16,556 Speaker 2: or like do some more songs. This was kind of 79 00:04:17,316 --> 00:04:21,956 Speaker 2: relatively effortless and really fun, so I believe it was. 80 00:04:22,156 --> 00:04:25,116 Speaker 2: I believe District was the first thing that he sent me, 81 00:04:25,876 --> 00:04:27,476 Speaker 2: and yeah, we were just kind of off and running. 82 00:04:27,476 --> 00:04:27,636 Speaker 5: You know. 83 00:04:27,716 --> 00:04:29,716 Speaker 2: The interesting thing about give up to me is that 84 00:04:29,796 --> 00:04:32,196 Speaker 2: there there weren't any other songs recorded for it. It 85 00:04:33,316 --> 00:04:36,196 Speaker 2: was literally just those songs that we had were the record, 86 00:04:36,236 --> 00:04:38,836 Speaker 2: and we were you know, I believe that we had 87 00:04:39,156 --> 00:04:42,236 Speaker 2: signed to Subpop based off of that didn't tell song, 88 00:04:42,356 --> 00:04:45,356 Speaker 2: and I believe the district sleeps Alone Tonight and maybe 89 00:04:45,436 --> 00:04:47,476 Speaker 2: one other song like Sleeping In or something like that. 90 00:04:48,876 --> 00:04:51,716 Speaker 2: But we we basically had a deal with Subpop before 91 00:04:51,756 --> 00:04:52,476 Speaker 2: we had a record. 92 00:04:52,796 --> 00:04:55,196 Speaker 1: Did you guys approach Subpop or did they just happened 93 00:04:55,196 --> 00:04:56,116 Speaker 1: to hear some of this stuff? 94 00:04:56,996 --> 00:04:59,916 Speaker 2: Well, Tony Kewell, who was doing an R for them 95 00:04:59,956 --> 00:05:01,716 Speaker 2: at the time, who's now still with the company, but 96 00:05:01,796 --> 00:05:03,756 Speaker 2: I think I believe he's a vice president or something. 97 00:05:04,516 --> 00:05:08,876 Speaker 2: Jimmy and Tony had gone to Loyola University together and 98 00:05:08,916 --> 00:05:10,116 Speaker 2: they DJs. 99 00:05:09,756 --> 00:05:12,556 Speaker 1: At caxlun from Subpop, Yeah exactly. 100 00:05:12,636 --> 00:05:15,116 Speaker 2: Yeah, So Tony had gotten word of the project from 101 00:05:15,236 --> 00:05:19,996 Speaker 2: Jimmy just them being friends. And my understanding of it 102 00:05:20,276 --> 00:05:22,796 Speaker 2: was that Tony took some of these early demos in 103 00:05:22,876 --> 00:05:26,276 Speaker 2: and just said, hey, this is you know Ben from Deathcab, 104 00:05:26,396 --> 00:05:28,916 Speaker 2: Jimmy from Dintel. They're doing a record, you know, should 105 00:05:28,916 --> 00:05:32,596 Speaker 2: we put it out? And you know, everybody at least 106 00:05:32,676 --> 00:05:35,676 Speaker 2: enough people agreed to say yes that we ended up 107 00:05:35,836 --> 00:05:38,476 Speaker 2: signing with Subpop, So that was I mean, looking back 108 00:05:38,636 --> 00:05:41,236 Speaker 2: on it as as I'm telling the story right now, 109 00:05:41,316 --> 00:05:43,716 Speaker 2: it seems I still kind of can't believe that it 110 00:05:43,836 --> 00:05:47,996 Speaker 2: happened that way. That's not how bands tend to get signed, right, 111 00:05:48,156 --> 00:05:50,676 Speaker 2: I mean, maybe maybe more so now than before, in 112 00:05:50,756 --> 00:05:53,276 Speaker 2: the sense that you can put out a song on 113 00:05:53,556 --> 00:05:57,196 Speaker 2: band camp or on YouTube or SoundCloud or whatever, and 114 00:05:57,356 --> 00:06:00,236 Speaker 2: somebody can find it and then it might end in 115 00:06:00,316 --> 00:06:02,876 Speaker 2: some kind of record deal. But in two thousand and one, 116 00:06:03,356 --> 00:06:05,796 Speaker 2: two thousand and two, that's not how shit went down. 117 00:06:06,356 --> 00:06:08,116 Speaker 2: So you know, at that time, if you were in 118 00:06:08,156 --> 00:06:10,796 Speaker 2: a band, you were playing show, you had a repertoire material, 119 00:06:10,876 --> 00:06:13,036 Speaker 2: and maybe somebody from a label saw you and then 120 00:06:13,196 --> 00:06:14,636 Speaker 2: we were like, you guys are great, we should do 121 00:06:14,676 --> 00:06:17,236 Speaker 2: a record together. But it's almost as if the way 122 00:06:17,276 --> 00:06:20,756 Speaker 2: the Pulservice ended up on Subpop, you know, is more 123 00:06:21,036 --> 00:06:24,036 Speaker 2: the way in which maybe sometimes people get signed now 124 00:06:24,556 --> 00:06:25,876 Speaker 2: than it was twenty years ago. 125 00:06:26,316 --> 00:06:28,956 Speaker 1: Well, it's also like was way ahead of the way 126 00:06:28,996 --> 00:06:31,756 Speaker 1: that people make music, you know, it's much more into 127 00:06:31,836 --> 00:06:35,356 Speaker 1: the way people make music now. In two thousand and three, 128 00:06:35,476 --> 00:06:39,036 Speaker 1: that record felt it felt like we hadn't heard anything 129 00:06:39,116 --> 00:06:41,596 Speaker 1: like that record before, and then by like twenty ten, 130 00:06:41,756 --> 00:06:44,196 Speaker 1: it felt like that was kind of the way a 131 00:06:44,316 --> 00:06:48,476 Speaker 1: lot of people were making music, like like a singer songwriters, 132 00:06:48,476 --> 00:06:51,236 Speaker 1: a lot of indie artists, there's electronic elements included. And 133 00:06:51,276 --> 00:06:53,156 Speaker 1: then you guys were really kind of like ahead of 134 00:06:53,196 --> 00:06:56,236 Speaker 1: that wave. I mean, there were people before, but to 135 00:06:56,316 --> 00:06:59,196 Speaker 1: have done it as sort of as tastefully as you 136 00:06:59,236 --> 00:07:01,276 Speaker 1: guys did it, I don't know that. I don't know 137 00:07:01,356 --> 00:07:02,276 Speaker 1: that I had heard that really. 138 00:07:03,316 --> 00:07:07,076 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think in some ways we were before our time, 139 00:07:07,596 --> 00:07:11,116 Speaker 2: not in the sense that we were doing anything radically new, 140 00:07:11,916 --> 00:07:16,876 Speaker 2: but that electro pop as a medium for indie rockers 141 00:07:16,956 --> 00:07:20,476 Speaker 2: had not really come into fashion yet. And you know, 142 00:07:20,596 --> 00:07:22,756 Speaker 2: when I think about give up and I think about 143 00:07:23,036 --> 00:07:26,916 Speaker 2: influences going into it, I mean we were referencing depeche 144 00:07:26,996 --> 00:07:30,156 Speaker 2: Mode and OMD and Yeahs and a lot of Human 145 00:07:30,236 --> 00:07:32,316 Speaker 2: League like stuff that was we kind of grew up 146 00:07:32,356 --> 00:07:35,596 Speaker 2: on as dudes who are now in our mid late forties, 147 00:07:35,836 --> 00:07:37,556 Speaker 2: growing up in the eighties with this first kind of 148 00:07:37,676 --> 00:07:42,356 Speaker 2: wave of post craftwork, kind of synthpop, where all of 149 00:07:42,436 --> 00:07:45,396 Speaker 2: these kind of young people in the late seventies early 150 00:07:45,436 --> 00:07:48,076 Speaker 2: eighties were realizing they could take this new technology and 151 00:07:48,196 --> 00:07:50,716 Speaker 2: make pop songs out of it. And then, it seems 152 00:07:51,236 --> 00:07:53,076 Speaker 2: from my perspective, and you know, there might be some 153 00:07:53,156 --> 00:07:54,996 Speaker 2: listeners who would push back on this, I might not 154 00:07:55,076 --> 00:07:58,236 Speaker 2: be entirely correct in this, but it felt like by 155 00:07:58,316 --> 00:08:01,596 Speaker 2: the late nineties early aughts that electronic music had become 156 00:08:01,836 --> 00:08:05,276 Speaker 2: very much like a connoisseur's music and like a process 157 00:08:05,516 --> 00:08:10,996 Speaker 2: oriented underground music. There weren't a lot of people making 158 00:08:11,156 --> 00:08:14,716 Speaker 2: pop songs with electronics at that point, at least not 159 00:08:15,436 --> 00:08:18,716 Speaker 2: anywhere near even like what would be considered the mainstream 160 00:08:18,796 --> 00:08:22,156 Speaker 2: of indie rock at that time. So I just kind 161 00:08:22,196 --> 00:08:24,476 Speaker 2: of feel like we were in the right place at 162 00:08:24,516 --> 00:08:29,436 Speaker 2: the right time, revitalizing a style of music that enough 163 00:08:29,476 --> 00:08:32,316 Speaker 2: people were familiar with to make it feel like it 164 00:08:32,436 --> 00:08:36,356 Speaker 2: was something that they could kind of understand fairly easily, 165 00:08:37,076 --> 00:08:39,476 Speaker 2: but that had been out of the vocabulary long enough 166 00:08:39,556 --> 00:08:41,116 Speaker 2: that it felt new and fresh. 167 00:08:41,396 --> 00:08:43,556 Speaker 1: I would even say, because you're right, like when you 168 00:08:43,676 --> 00:08:46,156 Speaker 1: referenced in like Human League and all those groups that 169 00:08:46,196 --> 00:08:49,156 Speaker 1: I guess were influences on that project, But you know, 170 00:08:49,196 --> 00:08:52,276 Speaker 1: there was a tenderness to it that I don't think 171 00:08:52,316 --> 00:08:54,836 Speaker 1: i'd heard in like electropop before, and like a focus 172 00:08:54,956 --> 00:08:57,796 Speaker 1: on songwriting that I don't know anywhere as in those 173 00:08:57,836 --> 00:09:01,676 Speaker 1: other forms. It feels like the music wasn't just the 174 00:09:01,756 --> 00:09:04,076 Speaker 1: track or just the production, but it was really focused 175 00:09:04,076 --> 00:09:05,916 Speaker 1: around the production. And I don't know, I don't know 176 00:09:05,956 --> 00:09:08,796 Speaker 1: if it's that it was a combination of Jimmy, who 177 00:09:08,956 --> 00:09:12,036 Speaker 1: was sort of more the person who had produced the track, 178 00:09:12,196 --> 00:09:15,276 Speaker 1: and you were more coming really from a songwriting from 179 00:09:15,316 --> 00:09:18,756 Speaker 1: a band perspective. That really helped it fuse the two. 180 00:09:18,836 --> 00:09:20,716 Speaker 1: But I don't know that i'd heard like electronic music 181 00:09:21,076 --> 00:09:23,476 Speaker 1: in that way with the kind of that beautiful crafted 182 00:09:24,116 --> 00:09:24,876 Speaker 1: song quality. 183 00:09:25,876 --> 00:09:28,756 Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate you saying that, as I still keep 184 00:09:28,796 --> 00:09:31,716 Speaker 2: coming back to my position that I just think that 185 00:09:31,836 --> 00:09:33,676 Speaker 2: we were kind of the first people to kind of 186 00:09:34,116 --> 00:09:38,556 Speaker 2: connect these two, Yeah, connect these dots like a confessional, 187 00:09:38,796 --> 00:09:42,076 Speaker 2: kind of emotive style of songwriting that I guess now 188 00:09:42,156 --> 00:09:44,436 Speaker 2: have become known for but certainly was kind of development 189 00:09:44,476 --> 00:09:47,476 Speaker 2: at that point in my career, and then melding it 190 00:09:47,596 --> 00:09:49,876 Speaker 2: with Jimmy's kind of sense of you know, give up 191 00:09:49,876 --> 00:09:52,396 Speaker 2: as an avant garde record by any stretch of the imagination, 192 00:09:52,556 --> 00:09:57,156 Speaker 2: but you know, Jimmy's coming from an experimental electronic background, 193 00:09:57,196 --> 00:10:00,116 Speaker 2: but also with this kind of very great ear for 194 00:10:00,236 --> 00:10:02,836 Speaker 2: pop songs. And you know, there are a couple of 195 00:10:02,876 --> 00:10:04,836 Speaker 2: moments on the record that are a little bit kind 196 00:10:04,876 --> 00:10:06,316 Speaker 2: of out there, but for the most part, it's a 197 00:10:06,356 --> 00:10:09,836 Speaker 2: pretty straightforward pop record. And Jimmy gets a lot of 198 00:10:09,876 --> 00:10:11,996 Speaker 2: that credit too, because he was sending me these things. 199 00:10:12,396 --> 00:10:15,156 Speaker 2: Until I worked with Jimmy, I'd never collaborate with anybody 200 00:10:15,196 --> 00:10:18,716 Speaker 2: in that fashion where somebody would send me music and 201 00:10:18,836 --> 00:10:23,436 Speaker 2: I would write melody and lyrics and additional arrangement over 202 00:10:23,556 --> 00:10:27,156 Speaker 2: top of it. At that time, I was very much 203 00:10:27,196 --> 00:10:30,116 Speaker 2: priding myself and being like the songwriter in the band 204 00:10:30,436 --> 00:10:33,396 Speaker 2: in Death Cabin, as a young person who was insecure, 205 00:10:33,996 --> 00:10:37,956 Speaker 2: very kind of staunchly protective of my role in the 206 00:10:38,036 --> 00:10:40,556 Speaker 2: band for fear that if anybody else were to write 207 00:10:40,556 --> 00:10:43,876 Speaker 2: a note of it, then somehow I would cease being 208 00:10:44,636 --> 00:10:46,756 Speaker 2: the song or in a band or whatever bullshit, that 209 00:10:47,076 --> 00:10:49,196 Speaker 2: whatever kind of ridiculous position that I took at the 210 00:10:49,236 --> 00:10:52,636 Speaker 2: time being a young insecure person. But with Jimmy, I 211 00:10:53,076 --> 00:10:57,156 Speaker 2: found that, having had half the work done for me, 212 00:10:57,916 --> 00:11:00,116 Speaker 2: I could merely just react to what I was hearing, 213 00:11:00,636 --> 00:11:02,596 Speaker 2: so I would. You know, he would send me a 214 00:11:02,716 --> 00:11:05,876 Speaker 2: CD with one or two instrumentals on it, and I 215 00:11:05,916 --> 00:11:10,036 Speaker 2: would put it in a CD walkman, and just walk 216 00:11:10,116 --> 00:11:12,756 Speaker 2: around Seattle for hours at a time, just kind of 217 00:11:12,836 --> 00:11:15,436 Speaker 2: humming to myself. Or I might keep like a little 218 00:11:15,476 --> 00:11:18,036 Speaker 2: notebook my pocket and write a lyric, idea down or whatever, 219 00:11:18,476 --> 00:11:19,756 Speaker 2: and I would just kind of go for these long 220 00:11:19,796 --> 00:11:21,796 Speaker 2: walks and just listening to these tracks over and over again, 221 00:11:22,316 --> 00:11:24,796 Speaker 2: you know, having no way to record a melody, or 222 00:11:25,116 --> 00:11:26,756 Speaker 2: I didn't have it. I didn't have an iPhone of course, 223 00:11:26,796 --> 00:11:29,636 Speaker 2: so I couldn't just sing into the voice notes or whatever. 224 00:11:30,396 --> 00:11:32,076 Speaker 2: But you know, the songs would I would just kind 225 00:11:32,076 --> 00:11:34,236 Speaker 2: of react to what he was sending me in The 226 00:11:34,356 --> 00:11:37,956 Speaker 2: imagery that the music kind of provided me became a 227 00:11:38,036 --> 00:11:41,476 Speaker 2: fairly easy jumping off point to write the narrative of 228 00:11:41,516 --> 00:11:45,596 Speaker 2: the song, which I found to be really liberating. It 229 00:11:45,676 --> 00:11:48,116 Speaker 2: took me to some places lyrically that I'd not found 230 00:11:48,156 --> 00:11:52,556 Speaker 2: myself in, and as I said, it was easier doing 231 00:11:52,636 --> 00:11:54,876 Speaker 2: half the work, So you know, it just allowed me 232 00:11:55,596 --> 00:12:00,236 Speaker 2: the space to be writing transit leenticism and also writing 233 00:12:00,476 --> 00:12:03,596 Speaker 2: my half of give Up, because they weren't in conflict 234 00:12:03,636 --> 00:12:05,196 Speaker 2: with each other. Like I was at home with a 235 00:12:05,276 --> 00:12:08,476 Speaker 2: guitar trying to write songs for trans Lenticism or what 236 00:12:08,556 --> 00:12:11,436 Speaker 2: would become Translanticism, and then I would get a CD 237 00:12:11,556 --> 00:12:13,396 Speaker 2: in the mail from Jimmy on say a Thursday, and 238 00:12:13,516 --> 00:12:15,276 Speaker 2: be like, oh cool, Jimmy sent me a song. Oh 239 00:12:15,276 --> 00:12:17,476 Speaker 2: I'm gonna work on that today, and then I do that, 240 00:12:17,636 --> 00:12:19,076 Speaker 2: and then I would go back on Friday and get 241 00:12:19,076 --> 00:12:21,116 Speaker 2: back to working on the thing I was working on before. 242 00:12:21,956 --> 00:12:24,756 Speaker 1: And was there any creative bleed between the two, Like 243 00:12:24,796 --> 00:12:26,756 Speaker 1: I mean, as you were working on the both simultaneously, 244 00:12:26,876 --> 00:12:30,556 Speaker 1: were you ever at a point conflating ideas or having 245 00:12:31,036 --> 00:12:33,036 Speaker 1: stuff that you had written on say a Friday for 246 00:12:33,116 --> 00:12:35,716 Speaker 1: Translanticism and by the next week you're working on some 247 00:12:35,756 --> 00:12:37,876 Speaker 1: stuff with Jimmy and maybe that idea is going over 248 00:12:37,956 --> 00:12:41,436 Speaker 1: there or was it pretty segmented in your brain? 249 00:12:41,636 --> 00:12:45,716 Speaker 2: It was very segmented, probably because back to being like 250 00:12:45,796 --> 00:12:49,276 Speaker 2: a young, insecure person. The guys in Deathcab knew I 251 00:12:49,396 --> 00:12:52,156 Speaker 2: was doing this record with Jimmy, and it wasn't so 252 00:12:52,276 --> 00:12:57,036 Speaker 2: much that I felt a conflict of interest, as much 253 00:12:57,076 --> 00:12:58,916 Speaker 2: as I didn't want to give anybody in the band 254 00:12:59,516 --> 00:13:02,596 Speaker 2: the idea that I was prioritizing a quote good idea 255 00:13:02,836 --> 00:13:06,676 Speaker 2: unquote to this side project over my main band. So 256 00:13:07,516 --> 00:13:10,756 Speaker 2: I lived in a particular kind of type of fear 257 00:13:11,396 --> 00:13:13,396 Speaker 2: that I guess what I did want to do is 258 00:13:13,436 --> 00:13:15,196 Speaker 2: turn in a bunch of demos to the Death Cab 259 00:13:15,276 --> 00:13:17,076 Speaker 2: dudes and be like, here's what I've been writing recently, 260 00:13:17,716 --> 00:13:20,836 Speaker 2: and have them fixate on one particular song and be 261 00:13:20,916 --> 00:13:22,956 Speaker 2: like that one's the best one, and then for me 262 00:13:23,076 --> 00:13:26,076 Speaker 2: to be like, oh, actually, now that one's off the table, 263 00:13:26,116 --> 00:13:27,676 Speaker 2: because you know, I used a bunch of the lyrics 264 00:13:27,716 --> 00:13:30,476 Speaker 2: for this post service song. So in order to not 265 00:13:31,276 --> 00:13:34,156 Speaker 2: have that even be remotely an issue, I was only 266 00:13:34,396 --> 00:13:37,876 Speaker 2: writing to the stuff that Jimmy was sending me and 267 00:13:38,036 --> 00:13:41,236 Speaker 2: trying to allow those songs to be very kind of 268 00:13:41,516 --> 00:13:45,476 Speaker 2: separate thoughts away from anything that I was doing writing 269 00:13:45,636 --> 00:13:47,436 Speaker 2: for what would become Transatlanticism. 270 00:13:47,796 --> 00:13:50,876 Speaker 1: And you felt like that that process did take you somewhere, 271 00:13:51,556 --> 00:13:54,956 Speaker 1: segmenting the two writing processes between the Death Cab upcoming 272 00:13:54,996 --> 00:13:58,716 Speaker 1: Death Cab record, Translanticism and the postal service stuff, and 273 00:13:58,756 --> 00:14:00,476 Speaker 1: then only writing too Jimmy's track that took you to 274 00:14:00,556 --> 00:14:05,076 Speaker 1: places lyrically you hadn't necessarily been or hadn't mind before. 275 00:14:05,756 --> 00:14:08,516 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I could never fathom writing a song 276 00:14:08,636 --> 00:14:13,516 Speaker 2: like sleep In or Clark Gable for Death Cab, you 277 00:14:13,596 --> 00:14:15,996 Speaker 2: know those songs in particular, But just something like sleeping 278 00:14:16,076 --> 00:14:18,396 Speaker 2: In is kind of like a it's kind of an 279 00:14:18,436 --> 00:14:21,236 Speaker 2: absurd thought, you know, it's kind of an absurd lyric, 280 00:14:21,516 --> 00:14:24,356 Speaker 2: kind of a whimsical daydream of a lyric. 281 00:14:24,236 --> 00:14:27,476 Speaker 1: That really resonated with the thirteen year old I'm telling, Oh, really, okay, 282 00:14:28,436 --> 00:14:29,876 Speaker 1: that's what I was doing, was sleeping In. 283 00:14:30,476 --> 00:14:32,916 Speaker 2: That's great, I'm glad to hear that. But it's that's 284 00:14:33,196 --> 00:14:36,036 Speaker 2: I've realized. I've only realized I think I realized at 285 00:14:36,036 --> 00:14:38,716 Speaker 2: the time, but I've definitely gotten an appreciation for it 286 00:14:38,796 --> 00:14:41,516 Speaker 2: since then, that I never would have picked up a 287 00:14:41,596 --> 00:14:44,996 Speaker 2: pen and wrote lyrics like I did for Sleeping In 288 00:14:45,756 --> 00:14:46,676 Speaker 2: a top of anything. 289 00:14:46,716 --> 00:14:48,636 Speaker 1: I'd be writing for Death Cab myself. 290 00:14:48,796 --> 00:14:51,476 Speaker 2: So, you know, for whatever reason, kind of just the 291 00:14:51,596 --> 00:14:54,676 Speaker 2: tone of what Jimmy was sending me allowed each song 292 00:14:54,756 --> 00:14:58,236 Speaker 2: to be its own separate thought that could exist away 293 00:14:58,316 --> 00:15:00,916 Speaker 2: from Death Cab and not kind of come into conflict 294 00:15:00,996 --> 00:15:02,756 Speaker 2: creatively with what I was doing over here. 295 00:15:03,076 --> 00:15:05,636 Speaker 1: What do you think lyric like what in Sleeping In? 296 00:15:05,956 --> 00:15:08,916 Speaker 1: Or Clark Gable. What in those lyrics are so whimsical 297 00:15:08,956 --> 00:15:11,196 Speaker 1: to that you couldn't have imagined, you know, those being 298 00:15:11,276 --> 00:15:12,436 Speaker 1: Death Cab lyrics. 299 00:15:13,076 --> 00:15:18,156 Speaker 2: I suppose it's because I couldn't see myself getting if 300 00:15:18,196 --> 00:15:20,036 Speaker 2: I was sitting in this room with a guitar writing 301 00:15:20,076 --> 00:15:22,996 Speaker 2: a song right now or it's not right now in 302 00:15:23,116 --> 00:15:25,716 Speaker 2: two thousand and one or two thousand and two, and 303 00:15:26,436 --> 00:15:29,516 Speaker 2: the idea came to me to write a song about 304 00:15:30,156 --> 00:15:33,516 Speaker 2: recreating the best parts of a relationship as a way 305 00:15:33,636 --> 00:15:36,476 Speaker 2: to kind of make one's self feel good about how 306 00:15:36,556 --> 00:15:39,236 Speaker 2: the relationship had deteriorated, as is kind of the story 307 00:15:39,276 --> 00:15:42,236 Speaker 2: of Clark Gable. That would seem to me to be 308 00:15:42,356 --> 00:15:46,476 Speaker 2: a ridiculous thing to write a song about, especially given 309 00:15:46,716 --> 00:15:50,636 Speaker 2: the kind of music that I was writing with Death Cab, 310 00:15:50,836 --> 00:15:54,076 Speaker 2: which tended to be a lot sparser. 311 00:15:53,676 --> 00:15:55,316 Speaker 1: A lot slower, you know. 312 00:15:55,396 --> 00:15:58,996 Speaker 2: I remember turning in the demo for a sound of 313 00:15:59,036 --> 00:16:02,796 Speaker 2: settling song on Translanticism, and it was a lot slower. 314 00:16:02,836 --> 00:16:05,716 Speaker 2: It was kind of like bing bing bing bing bing 315 00:16:05,996 --> 00:16:08,356 Speaker 2: bing bing, like kind of a more mid tempo maybe 316 00:16:08,436 --> 00:16:12,556 Speaker 2: ninety BP kind of kind of vibe. Because I had 317 00:16:12,596 --> 00:16:16,556 Speaker 2: this aversion towards fast songs I thought that songs that 318 00:16:16,636 --> 00:16:19,836 Speaker 2: were like uptempo were not cool or something, And I 319 00:16:19,916 --> 00:16:23,116 Speaker 2: suppose that was probably a result of kind of coming 320 00:16:23,196 --> 00:16:26,956 Speaker 2: of age with slint and shipping news and codeine and 321 00:16:27,596 --> 00:16:30,756 Speaker 2: low and kind of having the slow core kind of 322 00:16:31,276 --> 00:16:34,476 Speaker 2: thing be a large part of my early musical vocabulary. 323 00:16:35,076 --> 00:16:37,596 Speaker 2: That I thought that fast songs like weren't cool, So 324 00:16:38,676 --> 00:16:40,916 Speaker 2: I would never felt have felt I would have been 325 00:16:40,916 --> 00:16:43,196 Speaker 2: able to pull off a lyric like Clark Gable or 326 00:16:43,236 --> 00:16:45,756 Speaker 2: Sleeping In because of just the tone of the lyric 327 00:16:46,236 --> 00:16:48,156 Speaker 2: against the music that I was writing that was a 328 00:16:48,156 --> 00:16:52,236 Speaker 2: little bit slower, sadder, sparser. A lyric like that would 329 00:16:52,276 --> 00:16:54,596 Speaker 2: draw too much of attention to itself at ninety bpm. 330 00:16:55,356 --> 00:16:57,756 Speaker 2: But when when it's like in kind of more of 331 00:16:57,836 --> 00:17:01,116 Speaker 2: like a club banger, it might it might be equally 332 00:17:01,236 --> 00:17:05,396 Speaker 2: kind of farcical, but at least there's other elements of 333 00:17:05,476 --> 00:17:06,276 Speaker 2: the thing to focus on. 334 00:17:06,356 --> 00:17:09,756 Speaker 1: If you think the lyrics suck, you know, no, I mean, 335 00:17:09,836 --> 00:17:13,476 Speaker 1: it's really Clark Gable. I was listening to it again, 336 00:17:13,556 --> 00:17:16,836 Speaker 1: obviously because we're going to be talking, and I was like, man, 337 00:17:16,956 --> 00:17:18,676 Speaker 1: Clark Gabe, I'd never picked up on it, and I 338 00:17:18,716 --> 00:17:21,916 Speaker 1: hadn't listen to the record, maybe since the last tenth anniversary, 339 00:17:21,996 --> 00:17:23,196 Speaker 1: like in a real way where I was really sitting 340 00:17:23,196 --> 00:17:25,916 Speaker 1: down to listen. But there's like a like a disco 341 00:17:26,116 --> 00:17:28,836 Speaker 1: groove on the base going on Clark Gable. It's kind 342 00:17:28,876 --> 00:17:30,796 Speaker 1: of like it. It's like absurd in a way, but 343 00:17:30,916 --> 00:17:34,876 Speaker 1: it completely it all works. I love how eclectic the 344 00:17:34,956 --> 00:17:35,396 Speaker 1: record is. 345 00:17:35,956 --> 00:17:39,036 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny with that song. There's a good friend 346 00:17:39,076 --> 00:17:42,156 Speaker 2: of mine named Thomas Moore who has a wonderful label 347 00:17:42,316 --> 00:17:45,436 Speaker 2: in Berlin called More Music, and you know a lot 348 00:17:45,476 --> 00:17:47,436 Speaker 2: of the stuff they were putting out in the turn 349 00:17:47,476 --> 00:17:51,716 Speaker 2: of the century like Lollypuna, Miss John Soda, b Fleshman 350 00:17:51,716 --> 00:17:52,836 Speaker 2: and a lot of this stuff that was kind of 351 00:17:52,876 --> 00:17:56,396 Speaker 2: this like early melding of electronics in indie rock. And 352 00:17:57,036 --> 00:17:59,716 Speaker 2: I remember when I first met Thomas, he was I 353 00:17:59,796 --> 00:18:01,716 Speaker 2: believe he was friends with Jimmy or they knew each other. 354 00:18:02,476 --> 00:18:04,276 Speaker 2: In his very German way, he was like, yeah, I 355 00:18:04,476 --> 00:18:06,836 Speaker 2: listened to that Postal Sabas record and I hated that 356 00:18:06,956 --> 00:18:08,196 Speaker 2: song clock Gable so much. 357 00:18:08,276 --> 00:18:08,996 Speaker 1: I just hated it. 358 00:18:09,516 --> 00:18:11,796 Speaker 2: And I was just like okay, man, like yeah, it's 359 00:18:11,836 --> 00:18:13,636 Speaker 2: like any because it was so discally and like I 360 00:18:13,716 --> 00:18:17,436 Speaker 2: didn't like it, and it was like and it's it's funny, 361 00:18:17,476 --> 00:18:19,516 Speaker 2: how like whenever we play that song, I guess we 362 00:18:19,556 --> 00:18:21,756 Speaker 2: haven't played it very often, but like when we were 363 00:18:21,876 --> 00:18:23,676 Speaker 2: playing on the last tour, and we'll probably when we 364 00:18:23,756 --> 00:18:25,276 Speaker 2: do in the next four I'll always kind of Thomas 365 00:18:25,316 --> 00:18:26,836 Speaker 2: will always kind of pop up in my mind of 366 00:18:26,916 --> 00:18:29,516 Speaker 2: his brutal honesty about what he thought about that song, 367 00:18:29,596 --> 00:18:32,436 Speaker 2: because of everything about it is pretty over the top, 368 00:18:32,716 --> 00:18:33,996 Speaker 2: you know, and it's like. 369 00:18:34,076 --> 00:18:36,076 Speaker 1: Also not over the top, I don't know, but at 370 00:18:36,156 --> 00:18:37,516 Speaker 1: least not by today's standards. 371 00:18:37,956 --> 00:18:41,876 Speaker 2: No, not by today's standards, but you know, it's like 372 00:18:42,236 --> 00:18:45,236 Speaker 2: there wasn't anything musically similar to it at the time. 373 00:18:46,036 --> 00:18:49,116 Speaker 2: At least elements of that song had existed beforehand, as 374 00:18:49,156 --> 00:18:52,116 Speaker 2: we've already discussed. But what I thought was so great 375 00:18:52,196 --> 00:18:55,036 Speaker 2: about Jimmy sending that song and it was just like 376 00:18:55,396 --> 00:18:57,316 Speaker 2: it was really just anything goes. I mean, there was 377 00:18:57,396 --> 00:19:00,236 Speaker 2: no you know, we weren't making this record thinking that 378 00:19:00,316 --> 00:19:04,276 Speaker 2: anybody was really gonna hear it, aside from the people 379 00:19:04,316 --> 00:19:06,516 Speaker 2: who maybe were already fans of Jimmy's and people who 380 00:19:07,396 --> 00:19:10,196 Speaker 2: were Deathcat fans. I might be curious about this project. 381 00:19:10,596 --> 00:19:14,276 Speaker 1: But before you get the subpop deal, I mean was 382 00:19:14,316 --> 00:19:16,316 Speaker 1: there a world where you were just doing this for 383 00:19:16,436 --> 00:19:18,876 Speaker 1: fun and no one would have heard this, Like, was 384 00:19:19,396 --> 00:19:21,676 Speaker 1: did you guys start collaborating with the idea that we 385 00:19:21,716 --> 00:19:24,316 Speaker 1: will put something out or was it let's just have fun? 386 00:19:25,116 --> 00:19:25,676 Speaker 1: I think. 387 00:19:25,836 --> 00:19:28,556 Speaker 2: I mean, I've always been a pretty destination oriented person. 388 00:19:28,756 --> 00:19:31,996 Speaker 2: So we were talking about initially like doing a couple 389 00:19:32,076 --> 00:19:33,556 Speaker 2: more songs or an EP or something. 390 00:19:34,316 --> 00:19:34,476 Speaker 5: You know. 391 00:19:34,516 --> 00:19:37,116 Speaker 2: There were a couple of small labels that were around 392 00:19:37,436 --> 00:19:39,156 Speaker 2: in our kind of circle of friends that were like, 393 00:19:39,196 --> 00:19:40,516 Speaker 2: oh I put that out, Yeah, let us know if 394 00:19:40,516 --> 00:19:43,236 Speaker 2: you want to put that out. So not that everything 395 00:19:43,276 --> 00:19:46,956 Speaker 2: I've written has been written with the goal of releasing it, 396 00:19:47,036 --> 00:19:48,916 Speaker 2: of course, like I've written way more music that hasn't 397 00:19:48,916 --> 00:19:52,916 Speaker 2: been released than has. But at that time I certainly 398 00:19:53,036 --> 00:19:56,636 Speaker 2: felt cocky enough to think that what we would be 399 00:19:56,756 --> 00:19:59,636 Speaker 2: making would be good enough that somebody would want to 400 00:19:59,636 --> 00:20:01,796 Speaker 2: put it out. And I guess at the time I 401 00:20:01,796 --> 00:20:04,236 Speaker 2: didn't see the point in just making music with somebody 402 00:20:04,236 --> 00:20:06,436 Speaker 2: else that without without the goal of having it be 403 00:20:06,516 --> 00:20:07,076 Speaker 2: out in the world. 404 00:20:07,596 --> 00:20:08,996 Speaker 1: Yeah, it just felt like, well, yeah, if we're making 405 00:20:09,036 --> 00:20:10,676 Speaker 1: a record, let's make a record. You know, Let's let's 406 00:20:10,676 --> 00:20:10,836 Speaker 1: do it. 407 00:20:10,956 --> 00:20:12,996 Speaker 2: Let's let's go in with a goal in mind, and 408 00:20:13,076 --> 00:20:15,036 Speaker 2: if we fall short of that goal, that's fine, but 409 00:20:15,116 --> 00:20:17,796 Speaker 2: at least we weren't just, you know, dicking around. 410 00:20:18,436 --> 00:20:18,756 Speaker 6: I don't know. 411 00:20:18,876 --> 00:20:22,756 Speaker 2: I love playing music, I love writing music, but I'm 412 00:20:22,796 --> 00:20:25,156 Speaker 2: I'm very I've always been in awe of people who 413 00:20:25,196 --> 00:20:28,996 Speaker 2: are professional musicians who make music for fun, if this 414 00:20:29,156 --> 00:20:31,436 Speaker 2: makes any sense, Like I remember we years ago we 415 00:20:31,516 --> 00:20:34,796 Speaker 2: played Neil Young's Bridge School benefit and over and Gillian 416 00:20:34,836 --> 00:20:38,036 Speaker 2: Welsh and David Rawlings, who are two of my favorite musicians, 417 00:20:38,156 --> 00:20:40,716 Speaker 2: two of my favorite people. I love the records they 418 00:20:40,756 --> 00:20:42,276 Speaker 2: were playing as well, and they were just off in 419 00:20:42,356 --> 00:20:45,196 Speaker 2: the corner at a party, just playing music. 420 00:20:45,276 --> 00:20:48,156 Speaker 1: The whole was this party at Neil's ranch. Yeah it's 421 00:20:48,236 --> 00:20:53,276 Speaker 1: ranch amazing, like the pre Bridge School ranch party, yeah exactly. 422 00:20:53,316 --> 00:20:55,916 Speaker 2: And they and they weren't playing music necessarily for anybody 423 00:20:55,996 --> 00:20:58,396 Speaker 2: other than themselves and whomever might just kind of stumble 424 00:20:58,436 --> 00:21:00,916 Speaker 2: into the room. And I just was really taken with that. 425 00:21:01,076 --> 00:21:02,476 Speaker 2: And there was a part of me that wished I 426 00:21:02,516 --> 00:21:05,916 Speaker 2: could have that relationship to music. But I've never had 427 00:21:05,956 --> 00:21:08,516 Speaker 2: that relationship to it. It's always been a tool. It's 428 00:21:08,516 --> 00:21:11,716 Speaker 2: always been a tool of expression and not necessarily something 429 00:21:12,396 --> 00:21:15,036 Speaker 2: to do to past time. Or to like have fun, 430 00:21:15,236 --> 00:21:16,836 Speaker 2: not to say that they don't have fun playing music, 431 00:21:16,876 --> 00:21:18,196 Speaker 2: but if you and I were in a room and 432 00:21:18,316 --> 00:21:19,356 Speaker 2: you're like, what do you want to do right now? 433 00:21:19,396 --> 00:21:20,436 Speaker 2: It's like, I don't know, you want to play some 434 00:21:21,356 --> 00:21:24,076 Speaker 2: Kinks songs, and I'd be like, no, let's do something else. 435 00:21:24,156 --> 00:21:26,116 Speaker 2: I don't want to play somebody else's songs. You know 436 00:21:26,956 --> 00:21:29,356 Speaker 2: that's because you don't consider yourself a guitar player, really, right, No, 437 00:21:29,476 --> 00:21:29,996 Speaker 2: I do not know. 438 00:21:30,156 --> 00:21:32,636 Speaker 6: I'm definitely not, which is probably which is crazy to me, 439 00:21:32,716 --> 00:21:34,716 Speaker 6: but also it's probably why like that, I think that 440 00:21:34,916 --> 00:21:38,516 Speaker 6: has to come from well maybe not, but primarily it 441 00:21:38,556 --> 00:21:40,676 Speaker 6: seems in life that comes from the people who fancy 442 00:21:40,756 --> 00:21:42,316 Speaker 6: themselves guitar players. 443 00:21:42,436 --> 00:21:45,836 Speaker 2: You know, it might be Yeah, I also don't know 444 00:21:45,996 --> 00:21:46,876 Speaker 2: a lot of songs. 445 00:21:47,236 --> 00:21:47,556 Speaker 6: I don't. 446 00:21:47,756 --> 00:21:52,676 Speaker 2: I know my songs, and then a handful of songs 447 00:21:52,756 --> 00:21:55,916 Speaker 2: by some of my favorite bands or songwriters. But I'm 448 00:21:55,996 --> 00:21:58,916 Speaker 2: really bad at knowing what the lyrics are to songs 449 00:21:58,916 --> 00:22:01,196 Speaker 2: that I haven't written. I often get them wrong, even 450 00:22:01,236 --> 00:22:03,436 Speaker 2: songs that have been my favorite songs since I was 451 00:22:03,436 --> 00:22:06,356 Speaker 2: a teenager. Five or six years ago, I was making 452 00:22:06,396 --> 00:22:08,876 Speaker 2: this record, I was covering all of teenage fan clubs 453 00:22:08,876 --> 00:22:11,476 Speaker 2: band I can ask who are my favorite band? And 454 00:22:11,756 --> 00:22:14,556 Speaker 2: this record, well, I don't think it's their best record, 455 00:22:14,636 --> 00:22:17,276 Speaker 2: is my favorite of theirs because of where it came 456 00:22:17,316 --> 00:22:19,796 Speaker 2: into my life at the time it did. And I 457 00:22:19,996 --> 00:22:23,996 Speaker 2: was still like emailing Norman Blake from time to time 458 00:22:24,076 --> 00:22:25,796 Speaker 2: asking him like, what is the lyric in that song? 459 00:22:25,876 --> 00:22:26,636 Speaker 3: How does that one go? 460 00:22:27,596 --> 00:22:30,676 Speaker 2: Because and I felt foolish even asking him because this 461 00:22:31,076 --> 00:22:32,756 Speaker 2: I've been listening to this record at that point for 462 00:22:32,916 --> 00:22:37,076 Speaker 2: over about, you know, thirty years, And I realized in 463 00:22:37,396 --> 00:22:40,156 Speaker 2: attempting to play these songs that I didn't actually know. 464 00:22:41,756 --> 00:22:42,316 Speaker 1: Many of them. 465 00:22:43,116 --> 00:22:44,436 Speaker 2: I didn't know what the lyrics were, I didn't know 466 00:22:44,436 --> 00:22:45,116 Speaker 2: what the chords were. 467 00:22:45,516 --> 00:22:47,716 Speaker 1: So were you not like when you were first starting 468 00:22:47,796 --> 00:22:49,676 Speaker 1: to write songs? Were you not? It seems like a 469 00:22:49,716 --> 00:22:52,436 Speaker 1: lot of people the process of learning to write songs 470 00:22:52,556 --> 00:22:54,916 Speaker 1: is like playing other people's songs and then like just 471 00:22:55,036 --> 00:22:57,876 Speaker 1: modifying or making them your own, or modifying or changing 472 00:22:57,916 --> 00:22:59,636 Speaker 1: a couple you know, like early on at least, was 473 00:22:59,676 --> 00:23:02,636 Speaker 1: that not How you got into making music, was doing 474 00:23:02,716 --> 00:23:04,396 Speaker 1: like covers and things a. 475 00:23:04,436 --> 00:23:06,276 Speaker 2: Little bit, but it was, you know, it was like 476 00:23:06,756 --> 00:23:09,716 Speaker 2: a high school band, like poorly trying to our bad 477 00:23:09,756 --> 00:23:13,516 Speaker 2: brains pay to Come, or you know, some bad religion 478 00:23:13,636 --> 00:23:15,796 Speaker 2: song or like a you know, whatever it was. 479 00:23:15,876 --> 00:23:16,676 Speaker 1: It was that kind of shit. 480 00:23:16,756 --> 00:23:19,756 Speaker 2: It was like nothing, you know, For whatever reason, I've 481 00:23:19,916 --> 00:23:23,156 Speaker 2: never had this desire to pull songs. 482 00:23:22,876 --> 00:23:25,716 Speaker 1: Apart and see how they work. Okay. It wasn't like 483 00:23:25,756 --> 00:23:27,836 Speaker 1: I'm going to like learn Beatles core. 484 00:23:28,236 --> 00:23:30,076 Speaker 2: Like yeah, I mean, I guess I did. When I 485 00:23:30,116 --> 00:23:32,436 Speaker 2: was learning how to play guitar. I I taught myself 486 00:23:32,476 --> 00:23:35,956 Speaker 2: from a Beatles fake book originally, and where you would 487 00:23:35,956 --> 00:23:38,156 Speaker 2: have the picture of the chords of the chord and 488 00:23:38,236 --> 00:23:41,956 Speaker 2: where I put your fingers and nine is like this, yeah, exactly, 489 00:23:41,996 --> 00:23:45,676 Speaker 2: and these guys have really weird chords. So I guess, 490 00:23:45,716 --> 00:23:47,756 Speaker 2: and I guess, I guess I'm lying a bit. I 491 00:23:47,796 --> 00:23:52,196 Speaker 2: guess I did some of that, but it didn't it 492 00:23:52,236 --> 00:23:54,316 Speaker 2: didn't feel as if I was doing it for educational 493 00:23:54,356 --> 00:23:56,356 Speaker 2: purposes as much as I was. I just wanted to 494 00:23:56,476 --> 00:23:58,956 Speaker 2: sing the song, yeah, you know, or I just I 495 00:23:59,076 --> 00:23:59,716 Speaker 2: just wanted. 496 00:23:59,436 --> 00:24:00,356 Speaker 1: To play guitar, you know. 497 00:24:00,556 --> 00:24:02,196 Speaker 2: And I didn't have I hadn't writen any of my 498 00:24:02,236 --> 00:24:05,116 Speaker 2: own songs, So I guess these Beatles songs will have 499 00:24:05,276 --> 00:24:07,876 Speaker 2: to do, you know. I guess I guess here, there 500 00:24:07,876 --> 00:24:10,196 Speaker 2: and everywhere will have to do you know, yeah, yeah, 501 00:24:11,556 --> 00:24:12,276 Speaker 2: you talked. 502 00:24:12,076 --> 00:24:14,276 Speaker 1: About well, well, first of all, before we go back 503 00:24:14,276 --> 00:24:17,396 Speaker 1: into the records, tell me about the about Bridge School 504 00:24:17,396 --> 00:24:20,956 Speaker 1: and about that that party at Neil's ranch beforehand. Being 505 00:24:20,996 --> 00:24:22,756 Speaker 1: a person who's like, I'm not going to go off 506 00:24:22,916 --> 00:24:24,836 Speaker 1: and play guitar on a corner, it feels like it 507 00:24:24,916 --> 00:24:28,436 Speaker 1: feels very much like that's what's happening around that weekend. 508 00:24:28,516 --> 00:24:30,676 Speaker 1: So was it like a weird thing to take part in? 509 00:24:31,036 --> 00:24:33,196 Speaker 1: It was wild, I mean at that I think this 510 00:24:33,676 --> 00:24:37,196 Speaker 1: was two thousand and six. So we we had in 511 00:24:37,276 --> 00:24:39,196 Speaker 1: two thousand and four we had done some touring with 512 00:24:39,276 --> 00:24:42,956 Speaker 1: Pearl Jam, and Neil had come out for some of 513 00:24:43,036 --> 00:24:47,756 Speaker 1: those shows. And you know, this tour if people are 514 00:24:47,836 --> 00:24:49,916 Speaker 1: not familiar with it, which of course why would they be. 515 00:24:49,956 --> 00:24:52,076 Speaker 2: It was twenty years ago. It was called the Vote 516 00:24:52,116 --> 00:24:54,276 Speaker 2: for Change Tour. And there are a number of kind 517 00:24:54,316 --> 00:24:59,516 Speaker 2: of legacy acts and huge names, all descending upon swing 518 00:24:59,676 --> 00:25:02,956 Speaker 2: states and playing a concert in a particular swing state 519 00:25:03,036 --> 00:25:07,476 Speaker 2: on the same day. So Pearl Jam and you know us, 520 00:25:07,636 --> 00:25:10,316 Speaker 2: we might be playing in Columbus. Uh, you know Ram 521 00:25:10,436 --> 00:25:13,836 Speaker 2: and Bruce Springsteen are They're playing in Cincinnati. 522 00:25:14,436 --> 00:25:15,876 Speaker 1: So and so is playing here, and so on and 523 00:25:15,956 --> 00:25:16,356 Speaker 1: so forth. 524 00:25:16,476 --> 00:25:18,956 Speaker 2: Right, so that was kind of the big voter registration drive, 525 00:25:19,116 --> 00:25:20,636 Speaker 2: and you know, we were going to defeat Bush and 526 00:25:20,676 --> 00:25:23,516 Speaker 2: everything else. And so that was the first my first 527 00:25:23,556 --> 00:25:26,836 Speaker 2: experience or our first experience with being around like really 528 00:25:26,956 --> 00:25:30,916 Speaker 2: famous musicians, and that was incredibly nerve racking at first, 529 00:25:31,436 --> 00:25:33,676 Speaker 2: and we felt, you know, it's like very you know, 530 00:25:33,756 --> 00:25:36,276 Speaker 2: being around somebody like Bruce Springsteen, even just for an 531 00:25:36,316 --> 00:25:38,676 Speaker 2: hour at some kind of presser, was just like, holy shit, 532 00:25:38,756 --> 00:25:41,756 Speaker 2: that's Bruce Springsteen, and be cool, man, don't don't ask 533 00:25:41,836 --> 00:25:42,476 Speaker 2: him any dumb. 534 00:25:42,436 --> 00:25:42,916 Speaker 1: Questions, you know. 535 00:25:43,636 --> 00:25:45,596 Speaker 2: And so by the time we did Bridge School in 536 00:25:45,636 --> 00:25:47,796 Speaker 2: two thousand and six, it wasn't as if being around 537 00:25:47,836 --> 00:25:51,076 Speaker 2: people like that had certainly not become normal, but we 538 00:25:51,196 --> 00:25:54,796 Speaker 2: were a little bit less self conscious and nervous. And 539 00:25:55,476 --> 00:25:57,276 Speaker 2: it's not like we we certainly didn't feel like we 540 00:25:57,436 --> 00:26:01,036 Speaker 2: belonged there, but that at least we realized that we 541 00:26:01,156 --> 00:26:04,916 Speaker 2: were invited there, right, So people had invited us, they 542 00:26:05,036 --> 00:26:08,196 Speaker 2: wanted us to be there, so it would be okay 543 00:26:08,316 --> 00:26:10,916 Speaker 2: to go up to date role and like say hey man, 544 00:26:10,996 --> 00:26:13,956 Speaker 2: how's it going, and not have him or anybody else 545 00:26:14,036 --> 00:26:15,596 Speaker 2: be like I'm sorry, who do you think you are 546 00:26:15,836 --> 00:26:18,196 Speaker 2: talking to me? You know, everybody was super specific thing 547 00:26:18,236 --> 00:26:20,476 Speaker 2: that happened there, Like did you meet Dave Grohl there? 548 00:26:21,196 --> 00:26:21,316 Speaker 3: Uh? 549 00:26:21,436 --> 00:26:23,596 Speaker 2: Yeah, I met. I met Grole there. I met because 550 00:26:23,716 --> 00:26:26,036 Speaker 2: that was really great. I mean, that was an incredible year. 551 00:26:26,076 --> 00:26:29,076 Speaker 2: I think that year it was Neil of course, Pearl 552 00:26:29,196 --> 00:26:32,876 Speaker 2: Jam Trent Reznor was played with a prepared piano and 553 00:26:32,996 --> 00:26:36,796 Speaker 2: a string section. Brian Wilson played, I believe as well 554 00:26:38,436 --> 00:26:41,476 Speaker 2: Foo Fighters. I might have mentioned Gil and Dave. I mean, 555 00:26:41,516 --> 00:26:44,076 Speaker 2: it was just an unbelievable year and being at Neil's 556 00:26:44,076 --> 00:26:47,556 Speaker 2: house insane For those who don't know, you know, these 557 00:26:47,676 --> 00:26:51,596 Speaker 2: benefit shows they would occur at Shoreline Amphitheater, South San Francisco, 558 00:26:52,196 --> 00:26:54,836 Speaker 2: but Neil the night before the first show would have 559 00:26:54,996 --> 00:26:57,076 Speaker 2: a party at his ranch, which was way up in 560 00:26:57,116 --> 00:26:59,956 Speaker 2: the mountains, and you would go down this single lane 561 00:27:00,076 --> 00:27:03,996 Speaker 2: road you know, sheer drops to your death on one side, 562 00:27:04,436 --> 00:27:06,596 Speaker 2: and you drive way out there and then that's then 563 00:27:06,876 --> 00:27:08,596 Speaker 2: this is his house and there's you know, there's food 564 00:27:08,636 --> 00:27:10,996 Speaker 2: and drinks, people hanging out. Yeah, And it was a trip. 565 00:27:11,076 --> 00:27:13,636 Speaker 2: I mean, it was a real trip to just take 566 00:27:13,716 --> 00:27:16,876 Speaker 2: in the scene that you know, we had been invited to, 567 00:27:17,276 --> 00:27:20,076 Speaker 2: and we were very thankful for being invited to, but 568 00:27:20,876 --> 00:27:24,076 Speaker 2: it was clearly above our pay grade, right, so we 569 00:27:24,196 --> 00:27:25,996 Speaker 2: were just kind of like trying to be cool, trying 570 00:27:25,996 --> 00:27:28,636 Speaker 2: to not you know, make sure nobody drank too much 571 00:27:28,676 --> 00:27:29,516 Speaker 2: or did anything stupid. 572 00:27:29,676 --> 00:27:31,796 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and just kind of take the whole scene 573 00:27:31,836 --> 00:27:33,356 Speaker 1: in and yeah, it was, it was, it was. 574 00:27:33,476 --> 00:27:35,396 Speaker 2: It was pretty phenomenal. It's pretty amazing thing to be 575 00:27:35,396 --> 00:27:35,756 Speaker 2: a part of. 576 00:27:36,156 --> 00:27:39,236 Speaker 1: Having grown up in the Seattle area, Meeting Dave must 577 00:27:39,276 --> 00:27:41,996 Speaker 1: have been pretty crazy, right, Oh. Absolutely. 578 00:27:42,116 --> 00:27:44,036 Speaker 2: I remember when I was in high school driving down 579 00:27:44,116 --> 00:27:49,396 Speaker 2: forty fifth in Wallingford with a friend and for whatever reason, 580 00:27:49,516 --> 00:27:51,796 Speaker 2: Dave Broll was just standing on the corner talking to 581 00:27:51,876 --> 00:27:54,436 Speaker 2: somebody and we were driving past. You know, there was 582 00:27:54,476 --> 00:27:55,636 Speaker 2: no way to get out of the car. We were 583 00:27:55,716 --> 00:27:57,996 Speaker 2: like on the road, you know. But I remember just 584 00:27:58,036 --> 00:27:59,916 Speaker 2: like somebody being, oh shitl the Sape girl and save Brol, 585 00:27:59,996 --> 00:28:01,596 Speaker 2: like why is Dave Brill on the street, you know, 586 00:28:02,276 --> 00:28:04,516 Speaker 2: and you know that kind of I of course had 587 00:28:04,516 --> 00:28:08,036 Speaker 2: to tamp down that level of fandom when I first 588 00:28:08,116 --> 00:28:14,556 Speaker 2: met him, and you know, at this point now, yeah, 589 00:28:14,636 --> 00:28:16,916 Speaker 2: so it's but I think that you know, and since 590 00:28:16,996 --> 00:28:19,156 Speaker 2: you know, over the years we have become acquaintances and. 591 00:28:19,156 --> 00:28:21,156 Speaker 1: Have played some shows together and done some stuff together, 592 00:28:21,236 --> 00:28:22,596 Speaker 1: and he's a wonderful dude. 593 00:28:23,276 --> 00:28:26,796 Speaker 2: But I think that we all start out as fans, right, Yeah, 594 00:28:26,996 --> 00:28:31,796 Speaker 2: and you know we're we become fans of people usually 595 00:28:31,876 --> 00:28:34,676 Speaker 2: at a very formative important time in our lives where music, 596 00:28:35,316 --> 00:28:36,996 Speaker 2: at least for me and I'm sure for you, music 597 00:28:37,116 --> 00:28:40,196 Speaker 2: becomes everything to us. It's like everything we want to do, 598 00:28:40,276 --> 00:28:42,996 Speaker 2: it's everything we want to talk about, it's everything we 599 00:28:43,076 --> 00:28:47,356 Speaker 2: want to be. And those artists that are so formative 600 00:28:47,396 --> 00:28:50,516 Speaker 2: to us, you know, in our teenage years especially, you know, 601 00:28:50,596 --> 00:28:54,516 Speaker 2: certainly in a pre internet, pre social media world, we 602 00:28:54,596 --> 00:28:57,796 Speaker 2: could really be in awe of people and just and 603 00:28:57,916 --> 00:28:59,636 Speaker 2: be in awe of them for their talents and the 604 00:28:59,716 --> 00:29:02,876 Speaker 2: work that they have done and not know anything else 605 00:29:02,876 --> 00:29:07,556 Speaker 2: about them. Yeah, and you know, whether it's things are 606 00:29:07,636 --> 00:29:10,636 Speaker 2: better or worse now depends on I guess how old 607 00:29:10,676 --> 00:29:14,036 Speaker 2: you are and what your experiences have been. But you know, 608 00:29:14,116 --> 00:29:15,516 Speaker 2: a friend of mine, at some point we were just 609 00:29:15,596 --> 00:29:17,076 Speaker 2: kind of goofing off about a bunch of shit, and 610 00:29:17,196 --> 00:29:19,676 Speaker 2: he was he's, you know, about ten years older than me, 611 00:29:19,756 --> 00:29:23,676 Speaker 2: so he was playing in bands around Seattle when Nirvana 612 00:29:23,836 --> 00:29:27,236 Speaker 2: was coming up, right, and you know, we were both 613 00:29:27,316 --> 00:29:29,316 Speaker 2: fans of Nirvana, of course, but he had said something 614 00:29:29,356 --> 00:29:32,596 Speaker 2: along the lines of, you know, I think people forget that, like, 615 00:29:32,716 --> 00:29:34,756 Speaker 2: there were a lot of people in Seattle when Nirvana 616 00:29:34,836 --> 00:29:38,316 Speaker 2: got big that were kind of more like those glu sniffers, 617 00:29:38,596 --> 00:29:39,436 Speaker 2: those fucking guys. 618 00:29:40,236 --> 00:29:40,716 Speaker 1: Those guys. 619 00:29:40,876 --> 00:29:43,636 Speaker 2: No, not those guys, right, I mean there were haters, right, 620 00:29:43,676 --> 00:29:46,916 Speaker 2: I mean, like, you know, people were hating on Nirvana 621 00:29:47,796 --> 00:29:50,156 Speaker 2: or Pearl Jam or whatever it might have been when 622 00:29:50,236 --> 00:29:53,516 Speaker 2: they got popular, right, But as a teenager, you know, 623 00:29:54,356 --> 00:29:55,996 Speaker 2: and as a kid who's growing up on the other 624 00:29:56,076 --> 00:29:59,036 Speaker 2: side of the water from Seattle, I was able to 625 00:29:59,276 --> 00:30:01,676 Speaker 2: just be in awe of them and have no context 626 00:30:01,756 --> 00:30:04,036 Speaker 2: of like, I'm not in a band that's also trying 627 00:30:04,076 --> 00:30:05,756 Speaker 2: to make it at the same time as Nirvana. 628 00:30:05,876 --> 00:30:06,156 Speaker 6: I'm not. 629 00:30:07,836 --> 00:30:10,996 Speaker 2: I'm not an older person who like whose band kind 630 00:30:11,036 --> 00:30:12,916 Speaker 2: of petered out, and I see these young kids coming 631 00:30:12,916 --> 00:30:15,436 Speaker 2: along and they get famous, and I'm jealous. I'm just 632 00:30:15,516 --> 00:30:18,396 Speaker 2: in the perfect place to be in Ah to be 633 00:30:18,476 --> 00:30:20,676 Speaker 2: a fan and to be in awe, you know. And 634 00:30:21,116 --> 00:30:23,716 Speaker 2: I think that's such an important part of being a 635 00:30:23,796 --> 00:30:26,276 Speaker 2: fan of music is to have that period and try 636 00:30:26,316 --> 00:30:27,716 Speaker 2: to hold onto as long as you can. 637 00:30:27,956 --> 00:30:30,036 Speaker 1: Yeah, where you can just be a fan of people and. 638 00:30:30,036 --> 00:30:32,996 Speaker 2: Then also final point on it at forty six. Now 639 00:30:33,516 --> 00:30:35,396 Speaker 2: there are people that I grew up being in awe 640 00:30:35,516 --> 00:30:39,076 Speaker 2: of that are in bands that were so formative for 641 00:30:39,196 --> 00:30:42,436 Speaker 2: me that now I'm might be acquaintances with, might be 642 00:30:42,516 --> 00:30:45,476 Speaker 2: friends with. But I always let them know that I'm 643 00:30:45,516 --> 00:30:48,396 Speaker 2: a huge fan. You know, I'm still asking them questions 644 00:30:48,436 --> 00:30:51,036 Speaker 2: about that one record they made thirty years ago, like 645 00:30:51,076 --> 00:30:52,756 Speaker 2: when you so you know, I know you guys recorded 646 00:30:52,756 --> 00:30:54,356 Speaker 2: it here, but like what was the hand, what kind 647 00:30:54,396 --> 00:30:55,916 Speaker 2: of what was the mic on the thing? And you 648 00:30:55,996 --> 00:30:57,676 Speaker 2: know what kind of guitar did it? And you know, 649 00:30:57,796 --> 00:31:00,316 Speaker 2: I think that I'm proud of still being a fan 650 00:31:00,396 --> 00:31:02,756 Speaker 2: of stuff. You know, I still want to look at 651 00:31:03,236 --> 00:31:05,916 Speaker 2: my favorite bands and my favorite records with wonder and 652 00:31:06,076 --> 00:31:08,716 Speaker 2: have them hold some air of mystery. And if I 653 00:31:08,876 --> 00:31:11,796 Speaker 2: have the ability to discuss the record or the songs 654 00:31:11,836 --> 00:31:14,716 Speaker 2: with the people who made them, like I want them 655 00:31:14,756 --> 00:31:16,516 Speaker 2: to know how much those things mean to me. 656 00:31:17,556 --> 00:31:20,996 Speaker 1: Do you mind playing a few songs from the Translanticism? Yeah? 657 00:31:21,036 --> 00:31:21,276 Speaker 5: Of course. 658 00:31:21,316 --> 00:31:22,716 Speaker 2: What would you like to hear? 659 00:31:23,476 --> 00:31:26,476 Speaker 1: Oh man? I get to pick? How about how about title? 660 00:31:26,476 --> 00:31:27,036 Speaker 1: And registration. 661 00:31:27,116 --> 00:31:28,396 Speaker 3: Yeah, let's do that one. Yeah, that one. 662 00:31:28,476 --> 00:32:00,796 Speaker 7: That one works well like in this format, glove compartment. 663 00:32:01,596 --> 00:32:04,676 Speaker 3: Is an accurately name. 664 00:32:06,556 --> 00:32:19,556 Speaker 5: Everybody, How is it? I'm proposing the swift, orderly chasege 665 00:32:20,236 --> 00:32:25,796 Speaker 5: behind its door, and there's nothing to keep my fingers warm. 666 00:32:26,916 --> 00:32:35,636 Speaker 5: All I fine souveneers from better silence before probably of. 667 00:32:35,836 --> 00:32:41,276 Speaker 3: Your tail lights fading, eat to fire. 668 00:32:42,436 --> 00:33:05,236 Speaker 5: Yourself a better light. I was searching for some legal talk. 669 00:33:05,956 --> 00:33:12,116 Speaker 5: Man is the rainbeat down on the hoard when I 670 00:33:12,316 --> 00:33:18,956 Speaker 5: stumbled upon picture as I tried to fucket. 671 00:33:22,596 --> 00:33:25,276 Speaker 3: And that's how this idea. 672 00:33:27,076 --> 00:33:40,116 Speaker 5: Is drilled into my head. It's too imports and stay 673 00:33:40,196 --> 00:33:42,236 Speaker 5: in the away spend. 674 00:33:45,356 --> 00:33:51,956 Speaker 3: There's no blame. How I huf did slowly fain. Now 675 00:33:52,156 --> 00:33:54,116 Speaker 3: that it's stong, it's like. 676 00:33:54,356 --> 00:34:01,716 Speaker 5: It was in there at all here, I les disappointment 677 00:34:02,156 --> 00:34:05,476 Speaker 5: and regret. Could I. 678 00:34:07,476 --> 00:34:28,476 Speaker 3: Why away? He can n There's no blame. How I 679 00:34:28,876 --> 00:34:34,596 Speaker 3: love did slowly faith. Now that it's gone, it's like 680 00:34:34,836 --> 00:34:38,836 Speaker 3: it was in fair at all here. 681 00:34:38,996 --> 00:34:46,316 Speaker 5: I rest disappointment and regret, cl. 682 00:34:48,076 --> 00:34:50,596 Speaker 3: Lying away and night. 683 00:34:51,996 --> 00:34:52,716 Speaker 1: All night. 684 00:34:53,836 --> 00:34:56,756 Speaker 3: When I'm lying away to night. 685 00:35:17,796 --> 00:35:20,716 Speaker 1: That was Ben Gibberd performing Death Cab for cutis title 686 00:35:20,796 --> 00:35:23,996 Speaker 1: and registration. We're gonna take a quick break and then 687 00:35:24,076 --> 00:35:26,876 Speaker 1: come back with more of my conversation with Ben Gibbard. 688 00:35:31,516 --> 00:35:33,916 Speaker 1: We're back with more from my interview with Ben Gibbard. 689 00:35:34,356 --> 00:35:37,476 Speaker 1: We pick up our conversation talking about albums that were 690 00:35:37,556 --> 00:35:41,196 Speaker 1: foundational for him. What are some of those records for 691 00:35:41,276 --> 00:35:43,316 Speaker 1: you that are just like touchstones. 692 00:35:42,996 --> 00:35:45,196 Speaker 2: You know, for me when I was in high school 693 00:35:45,276 --> 00:35:47,516 Speaker 2: kind of finding music that would be kind of became 694 00:35:47,636 --> 00:35:50,916 Speaker 2: my music. It was something Vicious for Tomorrow, which was 695 00:35:51,516 --> 00:35:53,396 Speaker 2: treat People. For those who might not know as a 696 00:35:53,476 --> 00:35:57,436 Speaker 2: band that it was Doug Marsh, who now is known 697 00:35:57,516 --> 00:35:59,836 Speaker 2: mostly for Built a Spill. It was a band that 698 00:35:59,916 --> 00:36:01,636 Speaker 2: he was in before Built a Spill, or when he 699 00:36:01,716 --> 00:36:04,196 Speaker 2: was doing kind of the early Built a Spill recordings, 700 00:36:04,756 --> 00:36:08,396 Speaker 2: And that record made a huge impact on me because, 701 00:36:09,116 --> 00:36:12,516 Speaker 2: you know, growing up in like the suburbs of Seattle, 702 00:36:13,116 --> 00:36:16,196 Speaker 2: or I guess across the water from Seattle, I was 703 00:36:16,236 --> 00:36:18,196 Speaker 2: of an age where everybody was starting to get into 704 00:36:18,236 --> 00:36:20,196 Speaker 2: punk and hardcore and stray edge and stuff like that, 705 00:36:20,356 --> 00:36:22,876 Speaker 2: and there were elements of that music that appealed to me, 706 00:36:23,996 --> 00:36:29,196 Speaker 2: but I'd always been a lot more moved by pop 707 00:36:29,316 --> 00:36:33,556 Speaker 2: music and melodic music, and so for me, hearing Something 708 00:36:33,716 --> 00:36:36,716 Speaker 2: Vicious for Tomorrow. That was a record that was this 709 00:36:36,916 --> 00:36:40,116 Speaker 2: kind of beautiful melding of like very aggressive, kind of 710 00:36:40,796 --> 00:36:44,276 Speaker 2: an interesting guitar work, but was just really great pop 711 00:36:44,396 --> 00:36:48,276 Speaker 2: songs like super Chunk was another huge band for me. 712 00:36:48,476 --> 00:36:51,436 Speaker 2: I mean, records like on the Mouth and Foolish, huge 713 00:36:51,476 --> 00:36:53,796 Speaker 2: records for me. There was a lot going on in 714 00:36:53,876 --> 00:36:56,396 Speaker 2: the Northwest at that point that I really you know, 715 00:36:56,836 --> 00:36:59,356 Speaker 2: Treat People was from Boise, but like you know, there 716 00:36:59,396 --> 00:37:01,356 Speaker 2: was a band called Hazel from Portland that it was 717 00:37:01,436 --> 00:37:03,876 Speaker 2: really I loved. There was a band called Pond from 718 00:37:03,916 --> 00:37:07,116 Speaker 2: Portland that I really loved, and I found myself gravitating 719 00:37:07,156 --> 00:37:10,316 Speaker 2: towards a lot of this music from the americanunderground that 720 00:37:10,636 --> 00:37:12,716 Speaker 2: you know, I guess indie rock was the term was 721 00:37:12,756 --> 00:37:15,076 Speaker 2: being used to a certain extent in the early nineties, 722 00:37:15,796 --> 00:37:18,556 Speaker 2: but it was really just kind of like underground American 723 00:37:18,676 --> 00:37:21,756 Speaker 2: music being made by people who came up on hardcore 724 00:37:22,396 --> 00:37:25,116 Speaker 2: but that had abandoned it or had decided, like, you 725 00:37:25,156 --> 00:37:26,516 Speaker 2: know what, I want to make something a little bit 726 00:37:26,556 --> 00:37:29,076 Speaker 2: more dynamic, or something a little bit more has a 727 00:37:29,076 --> 00:37:29,676 Speaker 2: little bit more. 728 00:37:29,596 --> 00:37:30,556 Speaker 1: To say, or whatever. 729 00:37:31,196 --> 00:37:32,756 Speaker 2: And so that was a lot of that music was 730 00:37:32,836 --> 00:37:35,836 Speaker 2: the kind of music that was really formative to me 731 00:37:35,916 --> 00:37:38,836 Speaker 2: in high school because it when you're a young person, 732 00:37:38,876 --> 00:37:41,716 Speaker 2: and again coming back to it, insecure, you know, you 733 00:37:41,796 --> 00:37:44,196 Speaker 2: feel you want to like cool things. You like what 734 00:37:44,276 --> 00:37:46,276 Speaker 2: you like, but you also want those things to be cool, right, 735 00:37:46,796 --> 00:37:49,316 Speaker 2: And I really did genuinely love these records, but it 736 00:37:49,396 --> 00:37:51,916 Speaker 2: also kind of filled a place in my mind where 737 00:37:51,956 --> 00:37:53,796 Speaker 2: I could be like, oh, and also it's kind of punk, 738 00:37:53,996 --> 00:37:56,676 Speaker 2: so you know, but also, I mean, Teenage fan Club 739 00:37:56,796 --> 00:37:58,956 Speaker 2: is my favorite band than when I first heard Bandwagon 740 00:37:59,076 --> 00:38:01,996 Speaker 2: Esque when I was fifteen. You know, I was not 741 00:38:02,196 --> 00:38:04,156 Speaker 2: I had not heard much of the source material or 742 00:38:04,236 --> 00:38:07,636 Speaker 2: influence of that band. I hadn't heard Big Star or 743 00:38:07,996 --> 00:38:10,076 Speaker 2: much from the Birds or any of the kind of 744 00:38:10,116 --> 00:38:13,516 Speaker 2: seventies power pop stuff they were pulling from. But that 745 00:38:13,676 --> 00:38:15,676 Speaker 2: record just felt so familiar to me, and it felt 746 00:38:15,796 --> 00:38:18,116 Speaker 2: like it was this wonderful kind of extension of the 747 00:38:18,196 --> 00:38:19,716 Speaker 2: music that was on in the house when I was 748 00:38:19,716 --> 00:38:22,076 Speaker 2: a kid. But it was kind of like filtered through 749 00:38:22,196 --> 00:38:25,316 Speaker 2: kind of a J Mascus, you know, influence of kind 750 00:38:25,356 --> 00:38:28,716 Speaker 2: of just like really kind of dirty guitars, and I 751 00:38:28,716 --> 00:38:31,156 Speaker 2: wouldn't music was not aggressive by any such the imagination, 752 00:38:31,236 --> 00:38:32,676 Speaker 2: but it had like I had a grit to it 753 00:38:32,756 --> 00:38:34,476 Speaker 2: that I, as a teenager, really appealed to me. 754 00:38:34,716 --> 00:38:37,556 Speaker 1: It's funny that, like I guess with all those bands 755 00:38:37,636 --> 00:38:43,076 Speaker 1: happening there, Grunge, right, Nirvana, mud Honey, like all those 756 00:38:43,316 --> 00:38:44,916 Speaker 1: all those groups, and it's like coming of age in 757 00:38:44,916 --> 00:38:47,876 Speaker 1: San Francisco on like sixty seven or something. So I 758 00:38:48,036 --> 00:38:49,956 Speaker 1: kind of shocked that you were kind of did, though, 759 00:38:49,996 --> 00:38:54,076 Speaker 1: gravitate more towards a softer, more pop sound. I mean, 760 00:38:54,316 --> 00:38:56,796 Speaker 1: it's evident obviously, and I think if you listen to 761 00:38:56,876 --> 00:39:00,916 Speaker 1: Death Cab records that you write pop songs. But it's 762 00:39:00,956 --> 00:39:03,236 Speaker 1: just it's interesting that you gravitated more towards a softer, 763 00:39:03,916 --> 00:39:05,396 Speaker 1: less aggressive sound, you know. 764 00:39:06,196 --> 00:39:07,956 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I and to be clear, I loved all 765 00:39:07,996 --> 00:39:10,396 Speaker 2: that stuff too. Like the first real show I ever 766 00:39:10,516 --> 00:39:13,476 Speaker 2: saw was the Subpop Ultra Lanfest in ninety one or 767 00:39:13,556 --> 00:39:15,596 Speaker 2: ninety two, like the mud Honey was headlining, and it 768 00:39:15,756 --> 00:39:19,996 Speaker 2: was like Supersuckers and Seaweed I Love Still Love Seaweed, 769 00:39:20,196 --> 00:39:24,916 Speaker 2: Love Seaweed Earth Pond played, so I mean I was 770 00:39:24,956 --> 00:39:26,956 Speaker 2: definitely into that music as well. And it wasn't as 771 00:39:27,036 --> 00:39:30,076 Speaker 2: if I thought that Nirvana or Soundgarden or Pearl Jam 772 00:39:30,196 --> 00:39:32,196 Speaker 2: or Allison Chains were like, not cool. You know, I 773 00:39:32,556 --> 00:39:35,716 Speaker 2: love those bands too, But I think what I found 774 00:39:35,796 --> 00:39:38,916 Speaker 2: really appealing was that I could go to shows in 775 00:39:38,996 --> 00:39:41,996 Speaker 2: Seattle at this small all ages venue called the Okay Hotel, 776 00:39:42,436 --> 00:39:45,836 Speaker 2: which at the time in Seattle, there was this law 777 00:39:45,876 --> 00:39:48,796 Speaker 2: in the books called the teen Dan's Ordnance, which basically 778 00:39:49,156 --> 00:39:52,236 Speaker 2: legislated that any venue over I believe two hundred to 779 00:39:52,236 --> 00:39:54,356 Speaker 2: two undred fifty capacity needed to have a million dollar 780 00:39:54,396 --> 00:39:57,596 Speaker 2: insurance policy. So that basically meant if you wanted to 781 00:39:57,636 --> 00:39:59,356 Speaker 2: see an all ages show in Seattle is either going 782 00:39:59,436 --> 00:40:01,636 Speaker 2: to be at a very small place, or it was 783 00:40:01,676 --> 00:40:03,596 Speaker 2: going to be at the arena those are the two 784 00:40:03,756 --> 00:40:06,876 Speaker 2: or a theater, right, So so many bands came through 785 00:40:07,556 --> 00:40:10,796 Speaker 2: and would play clubs because we as miners, were not 786 00:40:10,796 --> 00:40:11,396 Speaker 2: allowed in there. 787 00:40:12,116 --> 00:40:14,476 Speaker 1: So I spent so much of my time. 788 00:40:14,356 --> 00:40:16,236 Speaker 2: As a kid going to the Okay Hotel to see 789 00:40:16,716 --> 00:40:18,196 Speaker 2: a lot of these bands that you know I've been 790 00:40:18,236 --> 00:40:21,396 Speaker 2: talking about, And what made a huge impression on me 791 00:40:21,636 --> 00:40:24,596 Speaker 2: was that you'd see them set their gear up on stage, 792 00:40:25,196 --> 00:40:28,956 Speaker 2: then play the show, then break the gear down, then 793 00:40:29,036 --> 00:40:32,036 Speaker 2: go to the merch table and sell their records and 794 00:40:32,076 --> 00:40:34,076 Speaker 2: T shirts, and then you'd see them get load the 795 00:40:34,116 --> 00:40:37,716 Speaker 2: gear into the van and drive away. And it might 796 00:40:37,836 --> 00:40:40,316 Speaker 2: sound a little trite to have to consider that a 797 00:40:41,156 --> 00:40:44,076 Speaker 2: you know, a mind blowing thing to see. But I'm 798 00:40:44,156 --> 00:40:48,436 Speaker 2: a product of the eighties and MTV, and if you 799 00:40:48,436 --> 00:40:50,396 Speaker 2: didn't live in a big city or you didn't have 800 00:40:50,596 --> 00:40:54,196 Speaker 2: access to a college radio station, I legitimately thought when 801 00:40:54,236 --> 00:40:56,156 Speaker 2: I was twelve or thirteen years old that the only 802 00:40:56,236 --> 00:40:58,676 Speaker 2: way to be in a band would be if you 803 00:40:58,716 --> 00:41:01,596 Speaker 2: could play like ripping guitar solos and look like you 804 00:41:01,676 --> 00:41:04,116 Speaker 2: were in slaughter or something, right. I mean that was 805 00:41:04,316 --> 00:41:05,636 Speaker 2: because that was what was on TV. 806 00:41:05,796 --> 00:41:06,396 Speaker 3: You're just seeing it. 807 00:41:06,476 --> 00:41:07,956 Speaker 1: You're like, Okay, well I don't look like that. 808 00:41:08,476 --> 00:41:10,876 Speaker 2: I don't play like that. I'll never play like that. 809 00:41:11,116 --> 00:41:13,716 Speaker 2: I don't actually like this music. I guess I can't 810 00:41:13,756 --> 00:41:15,596 Speaker 2: do it because if I can't do it like that, 811 00:41:15,716 --> 00:41:18,076 Speaker 2: it can't be done. But then you have this experience 812 00:41:18,116 --> 00:41:22,796 Speaker 2: where you see people doing it themselves, real people, real people, 813 00:41:22,956 --> 00:41:25,796 Speaker 2: and they just they're they're not they're not changing into 814 00:41:25,836 --> 00:41:28,196 Speaker 2: a costume to go on stage. They're wearing like jeans 815 00:41:28,236 --> 00:41:30,396 Speaker 2: and a T shirt at the time, probably a flannel 816 00:41:30,836 --> 00:41:33,956 Speaker 2: or a thrift store kind of shirt or whatever. And 817 00:41:34,156 --> 00:41:39,276 Speaker 2: what seemed entirely unobtainable immediately snaps into focus. Is something 818 00:41:39,316 --> 00:41:40,996 Speaker 2: that is like, yeah, I could do that, I could 819 00:41:40,996 --> 00:41:41,156 Speaker 2: do that. 820 00:41:41,276 --> 00:41:44,196 Speaker 1: That could be me. Do you ever do postal service 821 00:41:44,236 --> 00:41:45,316 Speaker 1: songs in your solo shows? 822 00:41:45,836 --> 00:41:46,596 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, all the time. 823 00:41:46,676 --> 00:41:48,876 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah. I mean you wrote the words and 824 00:41:48,916 --> 00:41:50,676 Speaker 1: you wrote to the track, but because you didn't like 825 00:41:50,916 --> 00:41:53,916 Speaker 1: craft the track and you weren't like you didn't write 826 00:41:53,956 --> 00:41:56,156 Speaker 1: the chords or anything. I mean, is it was it 827 00:41:56,236 --> 00:41:58,596 Speaker 1: weird when you first transposed it from the record to 828 00:41:59,396 --> 00:42:01,036 Speaker 1: like a guitar to do a solo. 829 00:42:02,076 --> 00:42:04,156 Speaker 2: You know, some of them work better than others, but 830 00:42:04,596 --> 00:42:06,636 Speaker 2: you know, at the end of the day, there's no 831 00:42:06,676 --> 00:42:09,916 Speaker 2: way to say this sounding self aggrandizing, So forgive me. 832 00:42:10,436 --> 00:42:12,276 Speaker 2: But if you think you've written a good to a 833 00:42:12,316 --> 00:42:14,556 Speaker 2: great song or whatever, if you can play it on 834 00:42:15,116 --> 00:42:17,396 Speaker 2: a piano or a guitar or a single instrument with 835 00:42:17,516 --> 00:42:20,756 Speaker 2: a voice can still kind of convey that kind of 836 00:42:21,396 --> 00:42:24,236 Speaker 2: emotion and power, then you know you might really have something. 837 00:42:25,076 --> 00:42:28,156 Speaker 2: But that's also a function of maybe how records. 838 00:42:27,836 --> 00:42:30,276 Speaker 1: Were made in the past and not so much how 839 00:42:30,396 --> 00:42:32,396 Speaker 1: records are made today. I mean, there or it's a 840 00:42:32,436 --> 00:42:34,236 Speaker 1: song that there's less good songs today. 841 00:42:34,356 --> 00:42:36,636 Speaker 3: I mean you know, I don't know. 842 00:42:36,716 --> 00:42:39,396 Speaker 2: I you know, I'm not I'm not gonna be the 843 00:42:39,396 --> 00:42:41,796 Speaker 2: one to say that, but I do think that the 844 00:42:41,956 --> 00:42:44,596 Speaker 2: tool box that young people are using to make music 845 00:42:44,796 --> 00:42:48,916 Speaker 2: today maybe does not lend itself as often to picking 846 00:42:48,996 --> 00:42:51,916 Speaker 2: up an acoustic guitar and playing a song that has 847 00:42:52,476 --> 00:42:54,956 Speaker 2: been created in this kind of in a computer with 848 00:42:55,076 --> 00:42:59,396 Speaker 2: a lot of interesting kind of tricks and not tricks, 849 00:42:59,436 --> 00:43:02,516 Speaker 2: but just production techniques that are don't lend themselves well 850 00:43:02,676 --> 00:43:05,316 Speaker 2: to playing a song on acoustic guitar, like you know, 851 00:43:05,396 --> 00:43:07,276 Speaker 2: like there's a band called hunter Gets that I think 852 00:43:07,356 --> 00:43:10,196 Speaker 2: is fucking fascinating. I think they're really interesting, and I 853 00:43:10,396 --> 00:43:12,716 Speaker 2: like a lot of their songs, but not many of 854 00:43:12,756 --> 00:43:14,756 Speaker 2: their songs. And you know this isn't then as a slight. 855 00:43:15,116 --> 00:43:16,756 Speaker 2: Not many of their songs that I've heard feel like 856 00:43:16,796 --> 00:43:19,276 Speaker 2: they could be. You know, I'm not expecting that, you know, 857 00:43:19,276 --> 00:43:20,556 Speaker 2: an acoustic set coming from that. 858 00:43:20,836 --> 00:43:22,076 Speaker 1: You know, it's not I mean, I guess when I 859 00:43:22,076 --> 00:43:23,516 Speaker 1: say there's no good songs, and it's not that the 860 00:43:23,716 --> 00:43:25,636 Speaker 1: it's not necessarily that the music's bad. I think there's 861 00:43:25,756 --> 00:43:27,636 Speaker 1: plenty of great music now, but I think even some 862 00:43:27,796 --> 00:43:29,996 Speaker 1: of the great a lot of the great music I hear, 863 00:43:30,276 --> 00:43:32,476 Speaker 1: they're not great songs, and I don't I think that's fine. 864 00:43:32,596 --> 00:43:34,556 Speaker 1: It's just just kind of is what it is. Just 865 00:43:34,636 --> 00:43:36,396 Speaker 1: like how a lot of the great music I hear 866 00:43:36,476 --> 00:43:38,756 Speaker 1: now doesn't have like a guitar solo. It's just it's 867 00:43:38,796 --> 00:43:39,996 Speaker 1: just I don't know. It means almost like just like 868 00:43:40,036 --> 00:43:42,116 Speaker 1: a fact. It's like, well, this isn't a song, but 869 00:43:42,196 --> 00:43:44,036 Speaker 1: it's great. I love it. You know, it's cool. 870 00:43:44,116 --> 00:43:46,396 Speaker 2: And I think also what constitutes the song has changed 871 00:43:46,476 --> 00:43:51,396 Speaker 2: dramatically since over the years, right, and again I'm doing 872 00:43:51,436 --> 00:43:53,836 Speaker 2: my best not sound like back in my day, men, 873 00:43:53,916 --> 00:43:56,716 Speaker 2: but you know, yeah, no, not all it's it's it's 874 00:43:57,076 --> 00:43:59,036 Speaker 2: really interesting that, you know a lot of songs that 875 00:43:59,116 --> 00:44:02,116 Speaker 2: are very popular these days are like under two minutes long. Yeah, 876 00:44:02,236 --> 00:44:04,076 Speaker 2: and they might just be like a verse and a 877 00:44:04,196 --> 00:44:06,796 Speaker 2: chorus and maybe a verse and maybe another chorus and 878 00:44:06,876 --> 00:44:07,436 Speaker 2: then we're done. 879 00:44:07,516 --> 00:44:07,676 Speaker 1: Yeah. 880 00:44:07,996 --> 00:44:10,996 Speaker 2: And then on the other you have like good vibrations, right, 881 00:44:11,556 --> 00:44:15,516 Speaker 2: or something that's just like unbelievably sophisticated and complicated with 882 00:44:15,676 --> 00:44:20,436 Speaker 2: multiple changes. I mean recently we were on tour and 883 00:44:20,516 --> 00:44:23,196 Speaker 2: I picked up a copy of Seeds of Love by 884 00:44:23,396 --> 00:44:26,756 Speaker 2: Tears for Fears, and which is you know, i'd love 885 00:44:26,836 --> 00:44:29,356 Speaker 2: Tears for Fears, love that record, but you put on 886 00:44:29,636 --> 00:44:31,476 Speaker 2: you know, Sewing the Seeds of Love and you're like, 887 00:44:31,636 --> 00:44:34,436 Speaker 2: holy shit, this is a fucking complicated song man. There's 888 00:44:34,516 --> 00:44:39,236 Speaker 2: like bridges after bridges, key changes, modulations. I mean, it 889 00:44:39,396 --> 00:44:43,196 Speaker 2: is it's they They spared no expense on that one, 890 00:44:43,236 --> 00:44:45,236 Speaker 2: Yeah right, I mean, but a good song is a 891 00:44:45,276 --> 00:44:47,276 Speaker 2: good song if it's you know, a great song is 892 00:44:47,316 --> 00:44:49,396 Speaker 2: a minute long that just punches you right in the face, 893 00:44:49,436 --> 00:44:52,396 Speaker 2: and then a great song can be twenty minute song cycle. 894 00:44:52,436 --> 00:44:55,236 Speaker 2: You know, it's really just a matter of conveying emotion 895 00:44:55,476 --> 00:44:57,836 Speaker 2: and telling a story, you know, yeah, yeah. 896 00:44:57,916 --> 00:45:00,996 Speaker 1: Do you have a different relationship to the Postal Service song? 897 00:45:01,036 --> 00:45:03,756 Speaker 1: So they feel holy like yourself? Like I know, like 898 00:45:03,956 --> 00:45:05,596 Speaker 1: in Death Cab youoreus and you felt very much like 899 00:45:05,636 --> 00:45:07,836 Speaker 1: the songwriter, And so I imagine those feel like like 900 00:45:07,916 --> 00:45:10,836 Speaker 1: the way genre Paul George, who like their their Beatles 901 00:45:10,876 --> 00:45:13,116 Speaker 1: songs like those are their songs, But like you feel 902 00:45:13,156 --> 00:45:16,076 Speaker 1: that way about the Postal Server songs? Do those feel different? 903 00:45:16,516 --> 00:45:19,636 Speaker 2: They are, you know, legally and spiritually both Jimmy and 904 00:45:19,836 --> 00:45:23,276 Speaker 2: My and my songs. But I've been playing some of 905 00:45:23,356 --> 00:45:25,956 Speaker 2: them for so long, I've played a lot of these 906 00:45:25,996 --> 00:45:28,716 Speaker 2: songs more on acoustic guitar than I have with Jimmy, 907 00:45:29,556 --> 00:45:31,756 Speaker 2: So a lot of the a lot of the versions 908 00:45:31,796 --> 00:45:35,476 Speaker 2: of these songs have become they've taken on a life 909 00:45:35,516 --> 00:45:38,956 Speaker 2: of their own in this kind of stripped down format. 910 00:45:39,156 --> 00:45:41,316 Speaker 2: I think at some point in the No Direction Home, 911 00:45:41,356 --> 00:45:43,716 Speaker 2: I think the Bob Dylan documentary, he says something along 912 00:45:43,716 --> 00:45:46,036 Speaker 2: the lines of, you know, yeah, the best versions of 913 00:45:46,076 --> 00:45:48,556 Speaker 2: my songs were never recorded. Yeah, you know, you go 914 00:45:48,636 --> 00:45:50,276 Speaker 2: into a studio and you make a you know, you 915 00:45:50,396 --> 00:45:53,796 Speaker 2: record like a rolling stone, and you know, that's just 916 00:45:54,076 --> 00:45:56,396 Speaker 2: like he probably wrote that the week before, and they 917 00:45:56,436 --> 00:45:59,876 Speaker 2: went in with a guy who had never played orgon 918 00:45:59,916 --> 00:46:02,556 Speaker 2: on a record before, right, and they just and they 919 00:46:02,636 --> 00:46:03,916 Speaker 2: knock it out in a couple of takes, and like, 920 00:46:03,916 --> 00:46:06,076 Speaker 2: all right, that is the definitive version of like a 921 00:46:06,396 --> 00:46:08,356 Speaker 2: you know, like a rolling stone. That's what it is, 922 00:46:08,476 --> 00:46:12,356 Speaker 2: from from now until the end of time. But as 923 00:46:12,436 --> 00:46:16,996 Speaker 2: a performer, as a touring musician, as pertains to our songs, 924 00:46:17,036 --> 00:46:19,316 Speaker 2: I'm sure Dylan probably feels the same way, because he 925 00:46:19,436 --> 00:46:22,156 Speaker 2: literally said it. We've gotten a lot better at playing 926 00:46:22,236 --> 00:46:24,916 Speaker 2: all of these songs because we've played them hundreds, if 927 00:46:24,956 --> 00:46:29,636 Speaker 2: not thousands of times, and there's little kind of variations 928 00:46:29,756 --> 00:46:33,596 Speaker 2: and little tweaks of kind of kind of like bubbled 929 00:46:33,676 --> 00:46:36,036 Speaker 2: up over the years, you know. So I'm very much 930 00:46:36,036 --> 00:46:38,236 Speaker 2: a firm believer in that notion. Yeah, the best versions 931 00:46:38,276 --> 00:46:42,236 Speaker 2: of anything I've ever recorded has not been recorded. 932 00:46:43,036 --> 00:46:44,756 Speaker 1: I like that. It's like, you know, the best. 933 00:46:44,596 --> 00:46:48,316 Speaker 2: Version of an acoustic pulsiver song probably existed somewhere in 934 00:46:48,316 --> 00:46:51,036 Speaker 2: a solo show somewhere in the world. And maybe, you know, 935 00:46:51,316 --> 00:46:53,636 Speaker 2: these days everything seems to be recorded in some capacity, 936 00:46:53,716 --> 00:46:56,876 Speaker 2: but maybe it maybe it happened in two thousand and seven, 937 00:46:56,956 --> 00:46:58,796 Speaker 2: right before the iPhone came out or something, you know. 938 00:46:58,956 --> 00:47:02,036 Speaker 1: Yeah, or maybe it's one could be. 939 00:47:02,156 --> 00:47:03,916 Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I mean I think when we heard 940 00:47:03,956 --> 00:47:06,036 Speaker 2: when we heard Ironwiness versions that's chrit Heights were kind 941 00:47:06,036 --> 00:47:07,516 Speaker 2: of like, well, I guess that's how I'm playing that now, 942 00:47:07,636 --> 00:47:07,836 Speaker 2: you know. 943 00:47:07,916 --> 00:47:09,996 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just like there's that uh. 944 00:47:10,476 --> 00:47:12,316 Speaker 2: I don't know if you might be too young to 945 00:47:12,356 --> 00:47:14,356 Speaker 2: remember this bit, but there was like an old SNL 946 00:47:14,436 --> 00:47:17,236 Speaker 2: bit with Eddie Murphy playing buck Wheat and he's like 947 00:47:17,316 --> 00:47:18,916 Speaker 2: singing all these songs and the whole thing is like 948 00:47:18,956 --> 00:47:23,076 Speaker 2: Buckwheat has a record of him doing standards, you know, 949 00:47:23,556 --> 00:47:25,876 Speaker 2: and at some point the announcer says something along lines 950 00:47:25,916 --> 00:47:27,596 Speaker 2: of like, you know, when Buck Wheat sings a song, 951 00:47:27,676 --> 00:47:30,956 Speaker 2: it's eternally his, you know, And I feel that way 952 00:47:30,996 --> 00:47:33,436 Speaker 2: about Sam Beam. You know, when Sam Beam decides to 953 00:47:33,476 --> 00:47:35,796 Speaker 2: sing a song, it kind of becomes eternally his. It's like, now, 954 00:47:36,156 --> 00:47:39,036 Speaker 2: such great heights, you know, belongs to Sam Beam, at 955 00:47:39,116 --> 00:47:39,716 Speaker 2: least spiritually. 956 00:47:39,756 --> 00:47:42,236 Speaker 1: At this point, it's a really good version, you know. Yeah, 957 00:47:42,236 --> 00:47:45,556 Speaker 1: it's so good, really good version that era of music. 958 00:47:46,236 --> 00:47:50,636 Speaker 1: I felt special having heard the Postal Service Record in what, 959 00:47:50,876 --> 00:47:52,916 Speaker 1: in my mind what I considered early and then by 960 00:47:52,956 --> 00:47:55,396 Speaker 1: the time that record starts blowing up, he started to 961 00:47:55,436 --> 00:47:58,556 Speaker 1: feel like, well, like, but this was this was my music, 962 00:47:58,596 --> 00:48:01,396 Speaker 1: This was my group. You know. There was because I 963 00:48:01,476 --> 00:48:04,476 Speaker 1: think in that time and a little later, people were 964 00:48:04,556 --> 00:48:07,716 Speaker 1: starving for like kind of real people that could connect to. 965 00:48:07,796 --> 00:48:09,876 Speaker 1: There was also this sense of like you wanted to 966 00:48:09,916 --> 00:48:13,916 Speaker 1: keep things small and for yourself, and sometimes that that 967 00:48:14,156 --> 00:48:16,636 Speaker 1: could be I guess, you know, in hindsight, I'm sure 968 00:48:16,676 --> 00:48:18,956 Speaker 1: that was limiting both the fans and the artists. But 969 00:48:19,156 --> 00:48:21,876 Speaker 1: was it weird for you when when the Postal Service 970 00:48:21,916 --> 00:48:23,556 Speaker 1: Record took off the way that it did. 971 00:48:24,436 --> 00:48:27,596 Speaker 2: Oh, of course absolutely. I mean, do you feel like 972 00:48:27,596 --> 00:48:30,196 Speaker 2: I can speak from experience because you know, I was 973 00:48:30,236 --> 00:48:33,276 Speaker 2: also once a young person getting into music, right. I 974 00:48:33,356 --> 00:48:36,396 Speaker 2: think when you're young, you're kind of figuring, you're finding 975 00:48:36,436 --> 00:48:38,596 Speaker 2: out who you are, You're kind of creating your identity. 976 00:48:39,316 --> 00:48:42,316 Speaker 2: We haven't really done a lot of stuff yet, right, 977 00:48:42,516 --> 00:48:46,636 Speaker 2: So how we define ourselves tends to be through the 978 00:48:46,716 --> 00:48:50,876 Speaker 2: things that we like. So if you like something super obscure, 979 00:48:51,876 --> 00:48:54,276 Speaker 2: that telegraphs to somebody that you are a very interesting 980 00:48:54,396 --> 00:48:57,676 Speaker 2: person because I'm the only one who likes this really 981 00:48:57,716 --> 00:48:59,836 Speaker 2: obscure thing that not a lot of people know about. 982 00:49:00,796 --> 00:49:03,676 Speaker 2: But then when the captain of the football team is 983 00:49:03,796 --> 00:49:11,116 Speaker 2: like singing Nirvana songs, suddenly, suddenly, you know, the definition 984 00:49:11,196 --> 00:49:14,916 Speaker 2: of your individuality through being a Nirvana fan doesn't seem 985 00:49:14,956 --> 00:49:15,716 Speaker 2: that unique anymore. 986 00:49:15,836 --> 00:49:15,956 Speaker 3: Right. 987 00:49:16,596 --> 00:49:18,356 Speaker 2: As I've gotten older, I've been really able to parse 988 00:49:18,396 --> 00:49:20,556 Speaker 2: it out for myself, and it's been interesting to see 989 00:49:20,636 --> 00:49:25,436 Speaker 2: how that phenomenon kind of works, how it exists in people. 990 00:49:25,556 --> 00:49:28,236 Speaker 1: Right. But you know, never connected though that it was 991 00:49:28,316 --> 00:49:31,276 Speaker 1: related to that we haven't had many experiences. I mean, 992 00:49:31,276 --> 00:49:33,756 Speaker 1: it's obvious to everyone that that's how we define ourselves 993 00:49:33,756 --> 00:49:35,076 Speaker 1: as by the things we're into at that age, but 994 00:49:35,156 --> 00:49:37,996 Speaker 1: I really never connected it to that. It's like, you 995 00:49:38,076 --> 00:49:40,396 Speaker 1: can't define yourself by your job at that age, or 996 00:49:40,796 --> 00:49:41,516 Speaker 1: you have no job. 997 00:49:41,676 --> 00:49:44,796 Speaker 2: You're going to high school and so you know, you 998 00:49:45,196 --> 00:49:48,596 Speaker 2: haven't probably written anything, or built anything, or done anything 999 00:49:48,716 --> 00:49:52,236 Speaker 2: or gone anywhere. So, you know, so much of our identity, 1000 00:49:52,356 --> 00:49:55,236 Speaker 2: certainly when we're into the arts or music, tend to 1001 00:49:55,316 --> 00:49:58,996 Speaker 2: revolve around the things that we like, and the more 1002 00:49:59,036 --> 00:50:02,196 Speaker 2: obscure those things are, the more interesting we are as people. 1003 00:50:02,476 --> 00:50:02,596 Speaker 1: Right. 1004 00:50:03,716 --> 00:50:05,996 Speaker 2: But you know, to kind of come back around to 1005 00:50:06,076 --> 00:50:11,116 Speaker 2: the response to give up when I believe when subpop 1006 00:50:11,356 --> 00:50:14,916 Speaker 2: was kind of making its calculations as to how many records, 1007 00:50:16,156 --> 00:50:18,076 Speaker 2: you know, the projections on what we thought this thing 1008 00:50:18,156 --> 00:50:20,476 Speaker 2: could sell or what they thought it could sell. I 1009 00:50:20,556 --> 00:50:23,476 Speaker 2: think at that point Death Caab's biggest record had sold 1010 00:50:23,716 --> 00:50:25,756 Speaker 2: fifty thousand copies or something like that would have been 1011 00:50:25,756 --> 00:50:28,836 Speaker 2: the photo album, and you know, Jimmy's Records had done 1012 00:50:28,836 --> 00:50:30,116 Speaker 2: what they had done. I don't know what they had done, 1013 00:50:30,156 --> 00:50:33,276 Speaker 2: and I think they had determined, you know, between will 1014 00:50:33,316 --> 00:50:35,196 Speaker 2: be in really great shape if we sell between like 1015 00:50:35,316 --> 00:50:38,236 Speaker 2: fifteen and twenty thousand copies, because that's like slightly less 1016 00:50:38,276 --> 00:50:42,796 Speaker 2: than half the Death Cab record, and you know, this 1017 00:50:42,876 --> 00:50:45,436 Speaker 2: seems like this might be a good, good kind of goal. 1018 00:50:45,756 --> 00:50:48,356 Speaker 2: And you know, we went out in the spring of 1019 00:50:48,916 --> 00:50:51,596 Speaker 2: two thousand and three and did a five week tour 1020 00:50:51,676 --> 00:50:55,476 Speaker 2: of the States, playing to you know, not many people. 1021 00:50:55,796 --> 00:50:57,156 Speaker 2: You know, when we get to New York, we were 1022 00:50:57,196 --> 00:50:59,276 Speaker 2: playing one Bowery Baller and then now we're playing two. 1023 00:50:59,516 --> 00:51:00,076 Speaker 1: That's exciting. 1024 00:51:00,476 --> 00:51:02,836 Speaker 2: And the La Show got moved from I think the 1025 00:51:02,996 --> 00:51:05,036 Speaker 2: Smell and then it eventually ended up at the Palace 1026 00:51:05,396 --> 00:51:08,516 Speaker 2: Theater on Vine. So you know, by the time the 1027 00:51:08,596 --> 00:51:10,596 Speaker 2: tours end, things were starting to pick up and it 1028 00:51:10,676 --> 00:51:13,076 Speaker 2: felt like the record was starting to have legs, but 1029 00:51:13,196 --> 00:51:15,476 Speaker 2: there was no kind of sense that it would kind 1030 00:51:15,516 --> 00:51:17,036 Speaker 2: of take off the way that it did. And what 1031 00:51:17,356 --> 00:51:20,276 Speaker 2: is still so interesting to me about that record is that, 1032 00:51:21,076 --> 00:51:24,036 Speaker 2: you know, subpop was trying to promote it, but they weren't. 1033 00:51:24,156 --> 00:51:25,756 Speaker 2: You know, it wasn't getting played on the radio. It 1034 00:51:25,876 --> 00:51:28,436 Speaker 2: was we didn't have like a video and rotation on MTV. 1035 00:51:28,596 --> 00:51:31,236 Speaker 2: It was kind of like the record was kind of 1036 00:51:31,356 --> 00:51:32,076 Speaker 2: selling itself. 1037 00:51:32,236 --> 00:51:34,396 Speaker 1: What was the promotional effort around that because I don't 1038 00:51:34,396 --> 00:51:37,036 Speaker 1: really remember one until I guess the video gets made 1039 00:51:37,076 --> 00:51:38,956 Speaker 1: in that video was made a couple of years later. 1040 00:51:39,676 --> 00:51:41,276 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know it was. It kind of 1041 00:51:41,396 --> 00:51:46,236 Speaker 2: got sent through the pretty standard sub Pop promotional machine, 1042 00:51:46,236 --> 00:51:48,636 Speaker 2: which was, you know, we'll get our publicist on trying 1043 00:51:48,676 --> 00:51:51,316 Speaker 2: to get interviews and try to get college rated to 1044 00:51:51,356 --> 00:51:52,516 Speaker 2: play it for a couple of months, and then we'll 1045 00:51:52,556 --> 00:51:54,596 Speaker 2: move on to whatever the next record is. Yeah, and 1046 00:51:54,956 --> 00:51:58,396 Speaker 2: it really became The record just took on a life 1047 00:51:58,436 --> 00:52:00,756 Speaker 2: of its own to the extent where Jimmy and I 1048 00:52:00,876 --> 00:52:04,076 Speaker 2: might be the authors of the record and Subpop might 1049 00:52:04,156 --> 00:52:07,636 Speaker 2: have been the label, but it just kind of it 1050 00:52:07,836 --> 00:52:11,476 Speaker 2: just had this incredibly organic word of mouth vibe to 1051 00:52:11,596 --> 00:52:14,196 Speaker 2: it where I don't want to like undersell the work 1052 00:52:14,236 --> 00:52:16,436 Speaker 2: that Subpop did on Our Behalf. But it wasn't as 1053 00:52:16,476 --> 00:52:19,236 Speaker 2: if sub Pop was spending a ton of money to 1054 00:52:19,316 --> 00:52:20,676 Speaker 2: let people know the record exist. 1055 00:52:20,476 --> 00:52:22,036 Speaker 1: For thinking it was going to be the next Death 1056 00:52:22,116 --> 00:52:24,436 Speaker 1: Cab record, right, which is probably why they assumed less 1057 00:52:24,516 --> 00:52:27,076 Speaker 1: than the fifty thousand that photo album. Right. 1058 00:52:27,156 --> 00:52:28,916 Speaker 2: It's like yeah, I just like, yeah, it'll be Yeah. 1059 00:52:28,916 --> 00:52:30,476 Speaker 2: I mean, people will be interested in this if they're 1060 00:52:30,516 --> 00:52:33,276 Speaker 2: fans of Death Cab. But it's when a singer from 1061 00:52:33,316 --> 00:52:35,276 Speaker 2: a band puts out a solo record, like nobody expects 1062 00:52:35,316 --> 00:52:37,916 Speaker 2: the solo record to be you know, Dave Girl puts 1063 00:52:37,956 --> 00:52:39,556 Speaker 2: out a solo record, nobody's expecting it to do as 1064 00:52:39,596 --> 00:52:41,916 Speaker 2: well as a food fine record. Yeah right, so yeah, 1065 00:52:42,196 --> 00:52:43,956 Speaker 2: so we just kind of and we kind of we 1066 00:52:44,116 --> 00:52:45,676 Speaker 2: wrapped up that tour whom we kind of thought, well, 1067 00:52:45,756 --> 00:52:48,476 Speaker 2: that's that, that was fun, and then we just get 1068 00:52:48,516 --> 00:52:50,796 Speaker 2: these calls from Tony at Subpop like, hey, the record 1069 00:52:50,836 --> 00:52:54,916 Speaker 2: is sold fifty thousand copies. Hey, the record's eighty thousand copies. Guys, 1070 00:52:54,956 --> 00:52:56,756 Speaker 2: we just want over one hundred thousand copies. We're two 1071 00:52:56,836 --> 00:53:00,236 Speaker 2: hundred thousand copies. It just it just snowballed. And to 1072 00:53:00,396 --> 00:53:02,396 Speaker 2: this day, I don't I don't have I don't have 1073 00:53:02,476 --> 00:53:07,276 Speaker 2: a good explanations to why that happened, aside from the fact. 1074 00:53:07,036 --> 00:53:09,996 Speaker 1: That we obviously thought the record was good, was really good. 1075 00:53:10,476 --> 00:53:11,996 Speaker 2: But there's a lot of great music in the world 1076 00:53:12,076 --> 00:53:14,436 Speaker 2: that doesn't sell a knowing copy efctionally good. 1077 00:53:14,436 --> 00:53:15,596 Speaker 1: I mean, and that's kind of what I was trying 1078 00:53:15,596 --> 00:53:17,396 Speaker 1: to get at the top, is like people had made 1079 00:53:17,476 --> 00:53:19,876 Speaker 1: of course people, I mean, there's nine inch Nails, right, Like, 1080 00:53:20,076 --> 00:53:22,036 Speaker 1: he's right, he's a songwriter and he does it in 1081 00:53:22,196 --> 00:53:24,876 Speaker 1: the kind of an electronic idiom and there's a human 1082 00:53:24,916 --> 00:53:26,316 Speaker 1: league to all that. But it's like, I don't know, 1083 00:53:26,436 --> 00:53:28,996 Speaker 1: it's so into this day. It doesn't sound the record 1084 00:53:29,036 --> 00:53:31,476 Speaker 1: doesn't sound dated, and there's like radio ad records that 1085 00:53:31,596 --> 00:53:33,436 Speaker 1: sound dated to me at this point, you know, and 1086 00:53:33,796 --> 00:53:35,556 Speaker 1: you listen to that, you're like, oh my god, Like 1087 00:53:35,636 --> 00:53:39,436 Speaker 1: it's still there's something about it that is exceptionally well crafted. 1088 00:53:39,716 --> 00:53:43,956 Speaker 1: And same with Translanticism too, which I revisited recently, and 1089 00:53:44,116 --> 00:53:46,316 Speaker 1: I think it has to do with the songwriting and 1090 00:53:46,436 --> 00:53:47,436 Speaker 1: the production both. 1091 00:53:48,156 --> 00:53:50,876 Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate you saying that. I mean, I have 1092 00:53:51,076 --> 00:53:54,836 Speaker 2: had exceptional timing in my career and I don't know 1093 00:53:54,876 --> 00:53:56,716 Speaker 2: who to thank for that. You know, I think that 1094 00:53:57,396 --> 00:53:59,276 Speaker 2: it's you know, it's been said a million times that 1095 00:53:59,316 --> 00:54:02,956 Speaker 2: if you could kind of if you could manufacture. 1096 00:54:02,276 --> 00:54:04,756 Speaker 1: A hit, that's all we would have, right, Yeah, But 1097 00:54:05,196 --> 00:54:06,356 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. 1098 00:54:06,476 --> 00:54:12,076 Speaker 2: I feel like, certainly myself in relation to both Translanticism 1099 00:54:12,156 --> 00:54:14,836 Speaker 2: and give Up, I feel confident in my abilities as 1100 00:54:14,876 --> 00:54:19,636 Speaker 2: a songwriter. I feel confident and proud of my collaborators, 1101 00:54:19,876 --> 00:54:21,036 Speaker 2: and I think the things we. 1102 00:54:21,116 --> 00:54:22,436 Speaker 1: Made were really good. 1103 00:54:23,036 --> 00:54:24,836 Speaker 2: But you know, there were a lot of records coming 1104 00:54:24,876 --> 00:54:28,556 Speaker 2: out in that same timeframe, you know, that were as good, 1105 00:54:28,636 --> 00:54:30,996 Speaker 2: if not better. And you know, I'm not saying this 1106 00:54:31,076 --> 00:54:33,276 Speaker 2: to be overly self effacing. I'm just saying like, we 1107 00:54:33,476 --> 00:54:37,316 Speaker 2: just found ourselves making. We had these two records come 1108 00:54:37,396 --> 00:54:40,876 Speaker 2: out that, for whatever series of reasons, really hit in 1109 00:54:40,956 --> 00:54:44,516 Speaker 2: the culture, and we were there and able to capitalize 1110 00:54:44,556 --> 00:54:47,076 Speaker 2: on it and be out on tour and be promoting 1111 00:54:47,076 --> 00:54:47,596 Speaker 2: the records. 1112 00:54:47,996 --> 00:54:49,556 Speaker 1: And you know, what was also. 1113 00:54:49,436 --> 00:54:53,276 Speaker 2: Happening at that time was this massive cultural shift where 1114 00:54:53,716 --> 00:54:58,196 Speaker 2: indie rock went from being this underground medium to being 1115 00:54:58,596 --> 00:55:01,316 Speaker 2: I wouldn't I would never say so much mainstream, but 1116 00:55:01,436 --> 00:55:04,196 Speaker 2: certainly like larger than it had ever been, you know, 1117 00:55:04,676 --> 00:55:07,636 Speaker 2: and certainly kind of started to kind of like you know, 1118 00:55:07,916 --> 00:55:11,356 Speaker 2: it was stre sure, Yeah, and in a similar way 1119 00:55:11,396 --> 00:55:14,676 Speaker 2: that you know, quote unquote alternative broken in the mainstream 1120 00:55:15,116 --> 00:55:17,636 Speaker 2: post Nirvana, where there are bands that bands are playing 1121 00:55:17,716 --> 00:55:20,396 Speaker 2: theaters that a couple of years ago were just playing clubs, right, 1122 00:55:20,956 --> 00:55:23,916 Speaker 2: So I think that we were also. Both records were 1123 00:55:24,276 --> 00:55:27,916 Speaker 2: kind of spurred on by this larger kind of cultural shift, 1124 00:55:28,676 --> 00:55:31,116 Speaker 2: you know. I mean there's that famous Sonic Youth documentary 1125 00:55:31,196 --> 00:55:33,516 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety one, the year the Punk Broke, which was 1126 00:55:33,556 --> 00:55:36,436 Speaker 2: a very apt title in hindsight, and I feel like 1127 00:55:36,516 --> 00:55:38,956 Speaker 2: a similar piece could be made about two thousand and four, 1128 00:55:39,476 --> 00:55:40,876 Speaker 2: and that like two thousand and four was the year 1129 00:55:40,916 --> 00:55:42,716 Speaker 2: that indie rock broke, Like it went from being this 1130 00:55:42,956 --> 00:55:46,476 Speaker 2: underground thing to like a year or two later, it's like. 1131 00:55:46,516 --> 00:55:49,516 Speaker 1: The Killers are everywhere or whatever an Arcade. 1132 00:55:49,236 --> 00:55:52,356 Speaker 2: Fire, Yeah, ArKade Fire, and the Shins and and you know, 1133 00:55:52,436 --> 00:55:54,716 Speaker 2: it's like bands that if they had come out five 1134 00:55:54,796 --> 00:55:57,916 Speaker 2: years earlier would have been playing basements and small clubs 1135 00:55:57,956 --> 00:55:59,316 Speaker 2: are now headlining Lollapalooza. 1136 00:55:59,476 --> 00:56:03,676 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, really crazy, really insane time. What did 1137 00:56:04,036 --> 00:56:06,796 Speaker 1: the guys from Death Cab What was their reaction to 1138 00:56:07,196 --> 00:56:10,316 Speaker 1: both the music of the service and also the success 1139 00:56:10,356 --> 00:56:12,636 Speaker 1: of Give Up? Was it tough? 1140 00:56:12,956 --> 00:56:16,756 Speaker 2: Everyone was very supportive while I was making the record, 1141 00:56:17,076 --> 00:56:20,236 Speaker 2: And you know, Chris actually plays plays some piano and 1142 00:56:20,516 --> 00:56:23,716 Speaker 2: on the record on Give Up. Chris played piano on 1143 00:56:24,116 --> 00:56:27,196 Speaker 2: the song nothing Better, and he helped record some of 1144 00:56:27,196 --> 00:56:29,036 Speaker 2: the guitars and vocals and stuff. So he was kind 1145 00:56:29,036 --> 00:56:31,076 Speaker 2: of helping me make make some of the record. I 1146 00:56:31,156 --> 00:56:33,956 Speaker 2: did some of it at my little home studio, but 1147 00:56:34,156 --> 00:56:35,476 Speaker 2: Chris was integral and. 1148 00:56:35,556 --> 00:56:36,436 Speaker 1: Helping make the record. 1149 00:56:36,796 --> 00:56:38,916 Speaker 2: And you know, Death Cab had come off a pretty 1150 00:56:38,956 --> 00:56:42,916 Speaker 2: grueling period of touring between We Have the Facts and 1151 00:56:42,996 --> 00:56:45,716 Speaker 2: Revoting Yes and Photo Album, and it was a real 1152 00:56:45,796 --> 00:56:48,556 Speaker 2: grind and we had, you know, almost broken up, and 1153 00:56:49,596 --> 00:56:51,836 Speaker 2: thankfully kind of pulled back from the edge of the 1154 00:56:51,876 --> 00:56:53,756 Speaker 2: cliff and said, like, we need to take some time off, 1155 00:56:53,916 --> 00:56:56,076 Speaker 2: like we need we need to take some time away 1156 00:56:56,076 --> 00:56:58,876 Speaker 2: from this. It was that time away, which ended up 1157 00:56:58,916 --> 00:57:03,156 Speaker 2: being eight or nine months, that allowed me to really 1158 00:57:03,276 --> 00:57:07,596 Speaker 2: kind of wander creatively and write songs for both Translanticism 1159 00:57:07,636 --> 00:57:10,436 Speaker 2: and do this project with Jimmy. So everybody in the 1160 00:57:10,476 --> 00:57:12,676 Speaker 2: band was really supportive of it, and when it came out, 1161 00:57:12,836 --> 00:57:16,276 Speaker 2: you know, everybody was cool with it. I think there 1162 00:57:16,356 --> 00:57:20,556 Speaker 2: was a very awkward period between when give Up eclipsed 1163 00:57:20,636 --> 00:57:25,036 Speaker 2: the sales of the photo album and when transit Lanticism 1164 00:57:25,116 --> 00:57:25,436 Speaker 2: came out. 1165 00:57:25,676 --> 00:57:28,556 Speaker 1: You know, I started Death Caap for Cutie. This was 1166 00:57:28,716 --> 00:57:29,196 Speaker 1: my band. 1167 00:57:29,996 --> 00:57:32,756 Speaker 2: It started as a solo project, so you know, I 1168 00:57:32,836 --> 00:57:35,356 Speaker 2: didn't think that anybody in the band needed reassurance that 1169 00:57:35,396 --> 00:57:37,636 Speaker 2: I wasn't going to like jump ship to this new 1170 00:57:37,756 --> 00:57:40,956 Speaker 2: thing that because it was starting to blow up. I mean, 1171 00:57:40,996 --> 00:57:44,756 Speaker 2: that never crossed my mind, but you know, there was 1172 00:57:44,796 --> 00:57:46,876 Speaker 2: a little bit of awkwardness when all of a sudden, 1173 00:57:47,276 --> 00:57:49,996 Speaker 2: you know, I'm sitting on a side project that has 1174 00:57:50,396 --> 00:57:53,196 Speaker 2: sold two hundred and fifty thousand copies or whatever, and 1175 00:57:53,756 --> 00:57:55,956 Speaker 2: you know, we're just about to put transit Lantism out, 1176 00:57:56,436 --> 00:57:59,116 Speaker 2: and there's this kind of like and it wasn't happening 1177 00:57:59,156 --> 00:58:00,836 Speaker 2: a lot, but it was starting to happen a little 1178 00:58:00,836 --> 00:58:02,276 Speaker 2: bit where people would come to our shows and they'd 1179 00:58:02,316 --> 00:58:06,276 Speaker 2: be screaming for pols over songs. They didn't understand the distinction. 1180 00:58:06,436 --> 00:58:08,316 Speaker 2: They didn't get that we weren't just going to go 1181 00:58:08,516 --> 00:58:11,676 Speaker 2: into a service song. Yeah, And so you know, there 1182 00:58:11,756 --> 00:58:13,276 Speaker 2: was a period of time in which I think some 1183 00:58:13,436 --> 00:58:15,876 Speaker 2: of you know, there was some bruised egos in the 1184 00:58:15,956 --> 00:58:17,636 Speaker 2: band around understandably. 1185 00:58:17,716 --> 00:58:19,356 Speaker 1: I mean that understandably of course. 1186 00:58:19,476 --> 00:58:21,756 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, it's like we as Death Cab 1187 00:58:21,876 --> 00:58:25,076 Speaker 2: had joked about selling fifty thousand records being indie rock gold, 1188 00:58:25,276 --> 00:58:28,396 Speaker 2: right like, we we were a huge band in quotes 1189 00:58:28,436 --> 00:58:29,596 Speaker 2: like and we were as big as you could be, 1190 00:58:29,796 --> 00:58:31,916 Speaker 2: you know, and then to find out that not only 1191 00:58:32,116 --> 00:58:35,396 Speaker 2: was there another level, but then I was experiencing that 1192 00:58:35,476 --> 00:58:38,516 Speaker 2: other level with my side project. You know, there was 1193 00:58:38,556 --> 00:58:42,116 Speaker 2: some awkward moments there. But back to timing. You know, 1194 00:58:42,196 --> 00:58:44,796 Speaker 2: if we would have put out photo album in two 1195 00:58:44,796 --> 00:58:47,876 Speaker 2: thousand and three instead of Translanticism, Death Cab would not 1196 00:58:47,956 --> 00:58:50,516 Speaker 2: have become what it became, right, and the profile of 1197 00:58:50,556 --> 00:58:52,116 Speaker 2: the band would not have risen the way it did 1198 00:58:52,156 --> 00:58:55,356 Speaker 2: after Translentism came out. So we just were very fortunate 1199 00:58:55,476 --> 00:58:57,916 Speaker 2: to be putting out you know what, I think a 1200 00:58:57,916 --> 00:58:59,676 Speaker 2: lot of people would consider to this day our best 1201 00:58:59,796 --> 00:59:02,876 Speaker 2: record as the as a follow up of sorts to 1202 00:59:02,916 --> 00:59:03,276 Speaker 2: give up. 1203 00:59:03,756 --> 00:59:06,556 Speaker 1: Earlier, you were talking about how like before you work 1204 00:59:07,116 --> 00:59:10,516 Speaker 1: a verse in a way to like faster songs like 1205 00:59:11,316 --> 00:59:14,516 Speaker 1: the kind of slow malaise kind of would become known 1206 00:59:14,556 --> 00:59:18,156 Speaker 1: as kind of like a shoegayzy thing maybe, But you know, Translanticism, 1207 00:59:18,196 --> 00:59:19,436 Speaker 1: I don't know how much of that is down to 1208 00:59:19,596 --> 00:59:22,796 Speaker 1: also getting a new drummer around that time. Yeah, I 1209 00:59:22,916 --> 00:59:26,036 Speaker 1: feel like added a lot to that record. Was one 1210 00:59:26,116 --> 00:59:28,076 Speaker 1: feeding the other in a way in terms of just 1211 00:59:28,156 --> 00:59:30,796 Speaker 1: the production. Do you think I'm not? 1212 00:59:30,956 --> 00:59:31,636 Speaker 3: I wouldn't say that. 1213 00:59:32,356 --> 00:59:35,436 Speaker 2: You know, there might be some similarities in the some 1214 00:59:35,556 --> 00:59:38,116 Speaker 2: slight similarities just because of my voice and how I 1215 00:59:39,116 --> 00:59:41,596 Speaker 2: kind of stack vocals and stuff like that, But Chris 1216 00:59:41,756 --> 00:59:44,316 Speaker 2: was very much doing his own thing with translanticism, and 1217 00:59:44,916 --> 00:59:47,956 Speaker 2: you know, the give up was like a Jimmy. 1218 00:59:47,756 --> 00:59:48,516 Speaker 1: And Ben production. 1219 00:59:48,716 --> 00:59:50,796 Speaker 2: So we were just kind of doing it ourselves, having 1220 00:59:50,876 --> 00:59:53,076 Speaker 2: never really produced a record before, just kind of flying 1221 00:59:53,116 --> 00:59:54,476 Speaker 2: by the seat of my pants. 1222 00:59:54,556 --> 00:59:54,756 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1223 00:59:55,636 --> 00:59:58,356 Speaker 2: But you know, I think when when Jason joined the band, 1224 00:59:58,756 --> 01:00:01,276 Speaker 2: I think we all we had tried to get Jason 1225 01:00:01,356 --> 01:00:04,676 Speaker 2: to join the band, I believe two previous times. Our 1226 01:00:04,716 --> 01:00:09,396 Speaker 2: first drummer, Nathan Good, who is a phenomenal drummer. And 1227 01:00:09,756 --> 01:00:13,156 Speaker 2: you know, when we first started the band and had 1228 01:00:13,276 --> 01:00:16,836 Speaker 2: Nathan playing drums, I was convinced that I'd never like 1229 01:00:16,996 --> 01:00:19,316 Speaker 2: this was it was like your first love, right, Yeah, 1230 01:00:19,356 --> 01:00:21,236 Speaker 2: Like this guy plays, he hits so hard and the 1231 01:00:21,436 --> 01:00:23,836 Speaker 2: partsy rights are so cool, and like, ah, this guy's great. 1232 01:00:24,116 --> 01:00:25,796 Speaker 2: But you know, we just found ourselves in a position 1233 01:00:25,916 --> 01:00:30,236 Speaker 2: where we were driving around playing to nobody, making no money, 1234 01:00:30,316 --> 01:00:32,436 Speaker 2: and he was just out of college, and you know, 1235 01:00:32,556 --> 01:00:34,916 Speaker 2: he's wanted to get married and kind of get a job. 1236 01:00:35,036 --> 01:00:37,076 Speaker 2: And I think there might have been a little familial 1237 01:00:37,116 --> 01:00:38,956 Speaker 2: pressure there as well, because I mean, look at us, 1238 01:00:38,996 --> 01:00:41,556 Speaker 2: with these four idiots in a van driving around stinky, 1239 01:00:42,036 --> 01:00:44,116 Speaker 2: you know, making no money. Why would there be a 1240 01:00:44,156 --> 01:00:45,916 Speaker 2: future in that and I can see that now, you 1241 01:00:45,956 --> 01:00:48,116 Speaker 2: know as an adult. You know, if you were outside 1242 01:00:48,156 --> 01:00:50,156 Speaker 2: of this culture, you wouldn't see that and go like, no, 1243 01:00:50,276 --> 01:00:51,436 Speaker 2: that's a that's a dead end, buddy. 1244 01:00:51,516 --> 01:00:51,676 Speaker 5: Yeah. 1245 01:00:52,316 --> 01:00:54,796 Speaker 2: So when Nathan quit, we had this gentleman named Michael 1246 01:00:54,836 --> 01:00:57,316 Speaker 2: Shore joined the band, and he was a phenomenal drummer, 1247 01:00:57,876 --> 01:01:01,876 Speaker 2: great drummer, great dude. But him, he and Chris really 1248 01:01:01,996 --> 01:01:03,956 Speaker 2: kind of butted heads in the studio. They didn't play 1249 01:01:03,996 --> 01:01:07,516 Speaker 2: well together in that in that capacity. So when Jason 1250 01:01:07,836 --> 01:01:10,636 Speaker 2: joined the band really felt like we you know, and 1251 01:01:10,876 --> 01:01:12,436 Speaker 2: this might I don't mean this as a slight to 1252 01:01:12,516 --> 01:01:16,476 Speaker 2: Michael or Nathan, but it really felt like we really, 1253 01:01:16,756 --> 01:01:20,276 Speaker 2: we really had somebody that was like on board all 1254 01:01:20,356 --> 01:01:20,636 Speaker 2: the way. 1255 01:01:20,796 --> 01:01:21,036 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1256 01:01:21,116 --> 01:01:23,756 Speaker 2: And for me, as someone who fancies himself at least 1257 01:01:23,756 --> 01:01:26,036 Speaker 2: a little bit of a drummer, I was writing a 1258 01:01:26,076 --> 01:01:28,196 Speaker 2: lot of parts, a lot of drum parts, especially in 1259 01:01:28,236 --> 01:01:32,356 Speaker 2: the early records, and you know, Jason is one of 1260 01:01:32,356 --> 01:01:34,756 Speaker 2: the greatest drummers I've ever heard. But he also would 1261 01:01:34,796 --> 01:01:37,436 Speaker 2: have no issue with, oh, yeah, that is that how 1262 01:01:37,476 --> 01:01:38,836 Speaker 2: you want the drums? Okay, cool, I'll play like that. 1263 01:01:38,996 --> 01:01:39,196 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1264 01:01:39,396 --> 01:01:41,156 Speaker 2: But he'd also be like, but I could also do 1265 01:01:41,236 --> 01:01:42,796 Speaker 2: it like this and he's like, oh, that's cool, or 1266 01:01:42,876 --> 01:01:44,476 Speaker 2: like no, I think I like it like this, Okay, 1267 01:01:44,476 --> 01:01:46,396 Speaker 2: I'll do it like that. So he was very malleable 1268 01:01:46,436 --> 01:01:49,956 Speaker 2: and he was very opinionated, but without ever being overbearing, 1269 01:01:50,156 --> 01:01:52,716 Speaker 2: Like you know, when Jason had a strong Jason wouldn't 1270 01:01:52,756 --> 01:01:54,316 Speaker 2: just Jason's not the kind of guy who will just 1271 01:01:54,396 --> 01:01:56,036 Speaker 2: chime in with every opinion that he has, but if 1272 01:01:56,076 --> 01:01:59,156 Speaker 2: you feel strongly about something, he will voice that opinion. 1273 01:01:59,276 --> 01:02:01,236 Speaker 2: And for the first time in a long time, I 1274 01:02:01,276 --> 01:02:03,956 Speaker 2: would see when he was pushing back on something that 1275 01:02:04,076 --> 01:02:07,356 Speaker 2: Chris was trying to have him do. I would see 1276 01:02:07,436 --> 01:02:10,556 Speaker 2: Chris really focusing and really listening to Jason and be like, Okay, 1277 01:02:10,636 --> 01:02:12,556 Speaker 2: let's do it that way. And that was that was 1278 01:02:12,596 --> 01:02:16,556 Speaker 2: a new experience for us. Wow, primarily because Michael. 1279 01:02:16,316 --> 01:02:17,956 Speaker 1: And Chris had but it had so much there. 1280 01:02:18,116 --> 01:02:21,236 Speaker 2: There's so much adversarial kind of moments in the studio 1281 01:02:21,276 --> 01:02:24,156 Speaker 2: that it was difficult to parse out who was being unreasonable. 1282 01:02:24,476 --> 01:02:26,116 Speaker 2: It was just they weren't They just weren't agreeing. So 1283 01:02:26,196 --> 01:02:28,036 Speaker 2: once we had Jason, it was like there was no audition. 1284 01:02:28,156 --> 01:02:29,916 Speaker 2: We were just like, all right, let's let's just get 1285 01:02:29,996 --> 01:02:31,436 Speaker 2: in and start working on these songs. 1286 01:02:31,556 --> 01:02:34,796 Speaker 1: You had the demos for the Translanticism, saw some of 1287 01:02:34,876 --> 01:02:37,876 Speaker 1: them at least before Yeah, before yeah, okay, yeah, and. 1288 01:02:37,956 --> 01:02:41,556 Speaker 2: We just immediately jumped in the studio and started experimenting 1289 01:02:41,636 --> 01:02:44,156 Speaker 2: and playing around with the songs, and in this case 1290 01:02:44,196 --> 01:02:46,636 Speaker 2: with a drummer who was more than willing to like 1291 01:02:47,556 --> 01:02:49,596 Speaker 2: you know, Neil Pert all over the song or to 1292 01:02:49,756 --> 01:02:50,836 Speaker 2: just sit out and not play at all. 1293 01:02:51,156 --> 01:02:51,796 Speaker 1: There was you know he did. 1294 01:02:51,836 --> 01:02:53,956 Speaker 2: He didn't have any ego about his I mean, we 1295 01:02:53,996 --> 01:02:55,316 Speaker 2: all have an ego about our playing, but he had 1296 01:02:55,436 --> 01:02:58,276 Speaker 2: very very little ego about his playing in relation to 1297 01:02:58,396 --> 01:03:00,956 Speaker 2: what it did in the song. He just wanted the 1298 01:03:01,036 --> 01:03:05,116 Speaker 2: songs to shine. And it's not to say that Nathan 1299 01:03:05,196 --> 01:03:07,196 Speaker 2: nor Michael didn't want that either, but I think that 1300 01:03:07,316 --> 01:03:09,956 Speaker 2: McGirr was very He was very very confident in who 1301 01:03:09,996 --> 01:03:12,916 Speaker 2: he was and his abilities and felt comfortable saying like, 1302 01:03:12,956 --> 01:03:14,436 Speaker 2: all right, cool, I'll sit out in this one, yeah, 1303 01:03:14,516 --> 01:03:15,796 Speaker 2: or get behind the kit. 1304 01:03:15,756 --> 01:03:17,076 Speaker 1: Show me what you want me to play. He was 1305 01:03:17,156 --> 01:03:18,636 Speaker 1: very cool with it. And it feels like as much 1306 01:03:18,636 --> 01:03:20,916 Speaker 1: as this, like you were hitting your stride as a 1307 01:03:20,996 --> 01:03:22,916 Speaker 1: songwriter at that point, and maybe Chris was hitting his 1308 01:03:22,996 --> 01:03:25,476 Speaker 1: stride as as a producer at that point. Yeah, it 1309 01:03:25,556 --> 01:03:29,156 Speaker 1: definitely felt like you two were kind of peeking or 1310 01:03:29,236 --> 01:03:30,956 Speaker 1: kind of finally coming into your own at that point 1311 01:03:30,996 --> 01:03:32,836 Speaker 1: in your respective boye and then like this new drummer 1312 01:03:32,876 --> 01:03:36,156 Speaker 1: comes in with his energy, and it really helped create 1313 01:03:36,756 --> 01:03:39,796 Speaker 1: the sound that is Death Cab in a way, you know, 1314 01:03:39,836 --> 01:03:41,396 Speaker 1: which is weird to say, because I came into Death 1315 01:03:41,436 --> 01:03:44,116 Speaker 1: Cab like photo album smattering of stuff from like we 1316 01:03:44,196 --> 01:03:45,636 Speaker 1: have the facts of voting, yes, but like when you 1317 01:03:45,836 --> 01:03:48,276 Speaker 1: I remember when I heard Translanticism was like holy shit, 1318 01:03:48,396 --> 01:03:50,676 Speaker 1: like you wanted to listen to it. It felt like 1319 01:03:50,756 --> 01:03:53,716 Speaker 1: a whole experience from front to back. Same with give Up. 1320 01:03:54,076 --> 01:03:56,316 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I definitely think that. You know, I've gone 1321 01:03:56,316 --> 01:03:58,756 Speaker 2: on record a number of times saying that, well, I 1322 01:03:58,796 --> 01:04:00,636 Speaker 2: think there's some great songs on the photo album. It's 1323 01:04:00,676 --> 01:04:03,556 Speaker 2: one of my least favorite albums that we've made, primarily 1324 01:04:03,636 --> 01:04:06,076 Speaker 2: because of the climate in which. 1325 01:04:05,876 --> 01:04:06,476 Speaker 1: We were making it. 1326 01:04:06,956 --> 01:04:08,916 Speaker 2: I didn't think we had enough songs, but we had 1327 01:04:08,956 --> 01:04:10,436 Speaker 2: to make a record because we had to be on 1328 01:04:10,516 --> 01:04:13,836 Speaker 2: the road. We weren't getting along, and you know, Transatlanticism 1329 01:04:13,956 --> 01:04:16,796 Speaker 2: and give Up as well, but certainly Translenticism is the 1330 01:04:16,956 --> 01:04:20,756 Speaker 2: sound of for people who are all on the same page, 1331 01:04:21,556 --> 01:04:26,516 Speaker 2: enjoying each other's company, getting along all with the this 1332 01:04:26,796 --> 01:04:30,836 Speaker 2: with the common goal. I'm sure there, of course are wonderful, amazing, 1333 01:04:31,596 --> 01:04:34,956 Speaker 2: genre defining records that were made under duress or with 1334 01:04:35,396 --> 01:04:38,956 Speaker 2: addicts or people fist fighting in the studio or whatever like. 1335 01:04:39,436 --> 01:04:42,316 Speaker 2: But it's been my experience that, at least for me, 1336 01:04:42,516 --> 01:04:44,356 Speaker 2: the best stuff that I've ever been involved with has 1337 01:04:44,436 --> 01:04:50,836 Speaker 2: been the product of free and easy communication, love and 1338 01:04:50,956 --> 01:04:55,956 Speaker 2: respect and the focus on a common goal and translanticism 1339 01:04:56,236 --> 01:04:58,196 Speaker 2: and give up for that matter. But again, very much 1340 01:04:58,236 --> 01:05:01,756 Speaker 2: translanticism is a product of that. It's a it's a 1341 01:05:01,836 --> 01:05:06,116 Speaker 2: record made out of with love and respect we all 1342 01:05:06,596 --> 01:05:09,036 Speaker 2: and you know, we would make records. We have made 1343 01:05:09,116 --> 01:05:12,796 Speaker 2: records since then that we're not necessarily made under those circumstances. 1344 01:05:12,836 --> 01:05:15,556 Speaker 2: But you know, I think it was getting close to 1345 01:05:15,636 --> 01:05:17,996 Speaker 2: breaking up and then pulling back and being like, no, 1346 01:05:18,156 --> 01:05:19,876 Speaker 2: we all love each other, we really want to do this. 1347 01:05:20,516 --> 01:05:21,236 Speaker 1: We're just a bunch of. 1348 01:05:21,276 --> 01:05:22,996 Speaker 2: Dipshits in our mid twenties who don't know how to 1349 01:05:22,996 --> 01:05:25,676 Speaker 2: communicate with each other. Yeah, let's kind of let's take 1350 01:05:25,676 --> 01:05:28,156 Speaker 2: a step back and take some time away and then 1351 01:05:28,276 --> 01:05:31,236 Speaker 2: come back at this and you know, do the best 1352 01:05:31,276 --> 01:05:31,516 Speaker 2: we can. 1353 01:05:32,716 --> 01:05:34,636 Speaker 1: We're going to take one last break and then come 1354 01:05:34,716 --> 01:05:41,116 Speaker 1: back with more from Ben Gibberd. Before we hear the 1355 01:05:41,156 --> 01:05:43,636 Speaker 1: rest of my conversation with Ben Gibberd, let's hear him 1356 01:05:43,676 --> 01:05:46,516 Speaker 1: play Death Cabs Song, Tiny Vessels. 1357 01:05:50,276 --> 01:05:51,756 Speaker 3: This is the moment. 1358 01:05:53,436 --> 01:05:54,116 Speaker 1: That you know. 1359 01:05:56,556 --> 01:06:00,396 Speaker 3: That you told her that you love to butcher Joan. 1360 01:06:02,476 --> 01:06:09,996 Speaker 3: You touch her skin and then you think that she's beautiful, 1361 01:06:10,596 --> 01:06:14,996 Speaker 3: but she don't need a thing to me. Yes, she 1362 01:06:15,276 --> 01:06:26,996 Speaker 3: is beautiful, but she don't need a thing. He I 1363 01:06:27,196 --> 01:06:31,196 Speaker 3: spent two weeks in silver late. 1364 01:06:33,156 --> 01:06:37,236 Speaker 5: The California son cascading down my face. 1365 01:06:39,356 --> 01:06:40,636 Speaker 3: There was a girl. 1366 01:06:42,516 --> 01:06:48,236 Speaker 5: Light Brown Street, and she was beautiful, but she didn't 1367 01:06:48,316 --> 01:06:53,676 Speaker 5: need a thing to me. Yes, she was beautiful, but 1368 01:06:53,836 --> 01:06:54,796 Speaker 5: she didn't need a. 1369 01:06:54,876 --> 01:06:55,516 Speaker 3: Thing to me. 1370 01:07:01,756 --> 01:07:06,316 Speaker 5: I wanted silverly and all the words that I was 1371 01:07:06,556 --> 01:07:14,916 Speaker 5: speaking as we moved to the dark, all the friends 1372 01:07:14,996 --> 01:07:19,956 Speaker 5: that I was telling, all the playful, the misspellings, and 1373 01:07:20,116 --> 01:07:27,996 Speaker 5: I'm free why I gave it left when signy that 1374 01:07:28,236 --> 01:07:32,356 Speaker 5: soul zoos didn't see your neck then formed the bruises 1375 01:07:32,876 --> 01:07:37,076 Speaker 5: that you sent you to long to faith. 1376 01:07:39,276 --> 01:08:02,756 Speaker 3: Both they did and sigh that day all I see 1377 01:08:04,676 --> 01:08:11,796 Speaker 3: dark ring clown in the distance, smoothing closer with every hour. 1378 01:08:13,796 --> 01:08:19,956 Speaker 3: So when you that there's something wrong, I think you're 1379 01:08:20,196 --> 01:08:23,276 Speaker 3: damn right there is, but we can't talk. 1380 01:08:23,236 --> 01:08:27,196 Speaker 5: About it now, and we can't talk about it now. 1381 01:08:38,756 --> 01:08:40,596 Speaker 5: So one last time. 1382 01:08:41,876 --> 01:08:47,196 Speaker 3: And then you'll go and we'll pretend that it meant 1383 01:08:47,476 --> 01:08:54,596 Speaker 3: something so much more. But it was vile and it 1384 01:08:55,076 --> 01:08:56,076 Speaker 3: was cheating. 1385 01:08:57,396 --> 01:09:03,676 Speaker 5: And you are beautiful, but your tone me to thing me. Yeah, 1386 01:09:03,876 --> 01:09:10,196 Speaker 5: you are beautiful, but your tone a thing. Yeah you 1387 01:09:10,436 --> 01:09:13,916 Speaker 5: are beautiful, but you tone mean a thing me. 1388 01:09:26,636 --> 01:09:29,476 Speaker 1: It's a beautiful song, thank you, And there's a level 1389 01:09:29,516 --> 01:09:32,636 Speaker 1: of that songs biographical. You were living in Silver Lake 1390 01:09:32,716 --> 01:09:35,236 Speaker 1: at some point during the writing of that record, right. 1391 01:09:35,436 --> 01:09:38,636 Speaker 2: The story takes place kind of bringing around to give up. 1392 01:09:39,796 --> 01:09:42,916 Speaker 2: I was down in Silver Lake working on the Post 1393 01:09:42,916 --> 01:09:45,996 Speaker 2: Service record at Jimmy's house. So I'd been seeing this 1394 01:09:46,156 --> 01:09:49,436 Speaker 2: woman for a period of time who I had I 1395 01:09:49,476 --> 01:09:51,476 Speaker 2: had been obsessed with for a long time, and we 1396 01:09:51,556 --> 01:09:55,836 Speaker 2: were finally dating and we just we just kind of 1397 01:09:55,916 --> 01:09:58,836 Speaker 2: weren't good together. It just didn't work. And yet, you know, 1398 01:09:58,916 --> 01:10:02,156 Speaker 2: I kind of internalized a lot of the failures of 1399 01:10:02,196 --> 01:10:05,076 Speaker 2: the relationship on my inability to see from a very 1400 01:10:05,156 --> 01:10:07,916 Speaker 2: early point that we were not compatible because I was 1401 01:10:07,956 --> 01:10:11,116 Speaker 2: completely I was what's the word. It was somebody that 1402 01:10:11,156 --> 01:10:13,596 Speaker 2: I had been just I had lusted over for so long, 1403 01:10:14,556 --> 01:10:17,436 Speaker 2: and then you kind of realize that, like sex with 1404 01:10:17,516 --> 01:10:20,876 Speaker 2: beautiful people is a lot of fun, but it's not 1405 01:10:21,116 --> 01:10:22,916 Speaker 2: without at least for me. It's certainly at that time 1406 01:10:22,996 --> 01:10:25,916 Speaker 2: my life in this particular relationship without a really kind 1407 01:10:25,916 --> 01:10:28,836 Speaker 2: of strong connection, it started to feel very empty, and 1408 01:10:28,916 --> 01:10:30,236 Speaker 2: I started to feel as if I was in it 1409 01:10:30,276 --> 01:10:33,916 Speaker 2: for the wrong reasons. And when the person who's the 1410 01:10:33,956 --> 01:10:37,796 Speaker 2: subject of the song first heard it, they were really upset. Understandably, 1411 01:10:38,316 --> 01:10:40,716 Speaker 2: what I hope comes through in the song is not 1412 01:10:40,916 --> 01:10:44,756 Speaker 2: so much that it's not an indictment of the person 1413 01:10:44,956 --> 01:10:47,756 Speaker 2: that I'm singing to. It's an indictment of myself and 1414 01:10:47,916 --> 01:10:49,476 Speaker 2: to me. And the real kind of core of the 1415 01:10:49,556 --> 01:10:51,796 Speaker 2: song is in the bridge, where it's like I wanted 1416 01:10:51,836 --> 01:10:53,836 Speaker 2: to believe in all the words I was speaking. I 1417 01:10:53,956 --> 01:10:57,276 Speaker 2: wanted to like, you know, I was over committing. I 1418 01:10:57,436 --> 01:11:00,796 Speaker 2: was trying to convince myself that I had stronger feelings 1419 01:11:00,876 --> 01:11:03,756 Speaker 2: that this was more than what it was, which was 1420 01:11:03,916 --> 01:11:08,356 Speaker 2: just an extension of my desire for this person, physical desire, 1421 01:11:09,196 --> 01:11:12,636 Speaker 2: rather than a sense of connection away from that, you know, 1422 01:11:13,116 --> 01:11:15,916 Speaker 2: and you know, years later we have we're on very 1423 01:11:15,956 --> 01:11:16,396 Speaker 2: good terms. 1424 01:11:16,436 --> 01:11:17,396 Speaker 1: We're friends. That's fine. 1425 01:11:17,596 --> 01:11:19,956 Speaker 2: I wrote a lot of songs about her. In fact, 1426 01:11:20,276 --> 01:11:21,996 Speaker 2: you know, the song Such Great Heights is about her 1427 01:11:22,036 --> 01:11:25,276 Speaker 2: as well. Really so yeah, so you know, she she 1428 01:11:25,436 --> 01:11:27,556 Speaker 2: kind of she exists throughout these records in a very 1429 01:11:27,596 --> 01:11:30,116 Speaker 2: interesting way. Same with Lightness. The song Lightness is about 1430 01:11:30,156 --> 01:11:32,956 Speaker 2: her as well. So there's kind of a there's an 1431 01:11:32,996 --> 01:11:36,116 Speaker 2: interesting kind of arc between these records about this person, 1432 01:11:36,676 --> 01:11:39,236 Speaker 2: where in a song like Lightness, it's this like it's 1433 01:11:39,276 --> 01:11:42,836 Speaker 2: the desire, it's the yearning, and then Such Great Heights 1434 01:11:42,956 --> 01:11:46,436 Speaker 2: is the culmination of like all the feelings, and then 1435 01:11:46,756 --> 01:11:49,996 Speaker 2: Tiny Vessels is the letdown. You know, it's it's the 1436 01:11:50,036 --> 01:11:52,436 Speaker 2: realization that, oh I never actually felt this way. I 1437 01:11:52,556 --> 01:11:53,756 Speaker 2: just got swept up, you know. 1438 01:11:54,076 --> 01:11:57,316 Speaker 1: And twenty years later she feel pretty flattered in a way, 1439 01:11:57,396 --> 01:11:59,436 Speaker 1: or be you know, I would feel that way, you know, 1440 01:11:59,596 --> 01:12:00,316 Speaker 1: I mean, if you go to some. 1441 01:12:00,476 --> 01:12:02,516 Speaker 2: I mean we're friend, we're friends now, so it's yeah, 1442 01:12:02,516 --> 01:12:04,116 Speaker 2: I mean I think that you know, like any as 1443 01:12:04,356 --> 01:12:06,756 Speaker 2: as a lot of things. You know, it's like so funny, 1444 01:12:06,796 --> 01:12:08,076 Speaker 2: we were just talking a couple of days ago, and 1445 01:12:08,636 --> 01:12:10,716 Speaker 2: we were both commenting about what dipshits we were when 1446 01:12:10,716 --> 01:12:13,396 Speaker 2: we were twenty five, you know, really like things. 1447 01:12:14,196 --> 01:12:14,956 Speaker 1: Yeah, like we're. 1448 01:12:16,596 --> 01:12:18,516 Speaker 2: I think I'm a lot better person at forty six. 1449 01:12:18,396 --> 01:12:21,756 Speaker 1: Than I was at twenty five. You know, is it 1450 01:12:21,916 --> 01:12:24,436 Speaker 1: hard like a song like that now? Like I don't know, 1451 01:12:24,556 --> 01:12:26,236 Speaker 1: I mean, you're going to go on a tour. I 1452 01:12:26,236 --> 01:12:28,116 Speaker 1: don't know if you'll play that song or not. Hopefully 1453 01:12:28,116 --> 01:12:29,236 Speaker 1: you do. It's great. I want to hear it. 1454 01:12:29,276 --> 01:12:31,436 Speaker 2: Oh of course, yeah, well we're yeah, we well the 1455 01:12:31,516 --> 01:12:33,316 Speaker 2: tour that we're doing in the fall with these records 1456 01:12:33,356 --> 01:12:35,276 Speaker 2: were you know, we're playing them start to finish. 1457 01:12:35,796 --> 01:12:37,516 Speaker 1: I didn't realize was going to play both start to finish. 1458 01:12:37,996 --> 01:12:38,796 Speaker 1: Yeah that's the plan. 1459 01:12:38,956 --> 01:12:41,516 Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, so it starts, it's the show will 1460 01:12:41,556 --> 01:12:45,756 Speaker 2: be essensibly like Translentiism, start to finish, short break, give up. 1461 01:12:45,796 --> 01:12:47,596 Speaker 1: Start to finish. That's going to be great experience. 1462 01:12:47,716 --> 01:12:47,836 Speaker 4: You know. 1463 01:12:48,316 --> 01:12:50,796 Speaker 2: It's kind of a product of I think these this 1464 01:12:50,996 --> 01:12:53,236 Speaker 2: kind of format as a product of a streaming era 1465 01:12:53,676 --> 01:12:55,476 Speaker 2: in that I don't remember who was the first one 1466 01:12:55,556 --> 01:12:57,436 Speaker 2: to do these shows. I believe it was some promoters 1467 01:12:57,476 --> 01:13:00,276 Speaker 2: in England like fifteen years ago that started doing these, 1468 01:13:00,356 --> 01:13:03,076 Speaker 2: like invited a band to play their assemble album and 1469 01:13:03,116 --> 01:13:04,716 Speaker 2: it's kind of yeah, I've kind of taken off and 1470 01:13:05,196 --> 01:13:07,916 Speaker 2: from a you know, you know, a concert goers perspective, 1471 01:13:07,956 --> 01:13:10,676 Speaker 2: it's really kind of a nice as to go and pretty. 1472 01:13:10,436 --> 01:13:11,316 Speaker 1: Much know what you're gonna get. 1473 01:13:11,396 --> 01:13:13,756 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I mean, obviously, sometimes you go see 1474 01:13:13,796 --> 01:13:15,156 Speaker 2: a band and you're with your friends, like, I hope 1475 01:13:15,196 --> 01:13:16,796 Speaker 2: they play that song from the third record. You know, 1476 01:13:16,876 --> 01:13:19,276 Speaker 2: we've all done that, right, and sometimes like they played 1477 01:13:19,316 --> 01:13:20,956 Speaker 2: everything I wanted them to hear, Like they didn't play 1478 01:13:21,116 --> 01:13:23,476 Speaker 2: fucking anything I wanted them to hear. Those guys, right, Yeah, 1479 01:13:23,836 --> 01:13:26,156 Speaker 2: but in this case, you know, if what you're looking 1480 01:13:26,196 --> 01:13:28,036 Speaker 2: for is hearing these records, you will want you will 1481 01:13:28,116 --> 01:13:29,956 Speaker 2: hopefully not go home disappointed. 1482 01:13:30,076 --> 01:13:31,836 Speaker 1: So yeah, we'll definitely be playing that one. I mean, 1483 01:13:31,876 --> 01:13:35,076 Speaker 1: a song like that that's obviously highly personal and you 1484 01:13:36,036 --> 01:13:40,716 Speaker 1: it's it's so biographical. Is it hard to access the 1485 01:13:40,796 --> 01:13:42,636 Speaker 1: motion of it? Again? Is it? Is it almost too 1486 01:13:42,716 --> 01:13:45,076 Speaker 1: easy and you try not to? Or how do you 1487 01:13:45,476 --> 01:13:47,996 Speaker 1: perform it in a way that honors the song but 1488 01:13:48,156 --> 01:13:51,156 Speaker 1: without almost going back to that place you were twenty 1489 01:13:51,236 --> 01:13:51,956 Speaker 1: years ago writing it? 1490 01:13:52,076 --> 01:13:54,276 Speaker 2: I guess I wrote I wrote tiny vessels when I 1491 01:13:54,396 --> 01:13:57,676 Speaker 2: was twenty six. I think I'm forty six now, so 1492 01:13:57,716 --> 01:13:59,596 Speaker 2: it's been twenty years since I wrote the song, and 1493 01:13:59,876 --> 01:14:01,516 Speaker 2: you know, there's a part of me that has to 1494 01:14:01,676 --> 01:14:07,076 Speaker 2: exist in that headspace for the three or four minutes 1495 01:14:07,156 --> 01:14:09,796 Speaker 2: that we're playing that song. But it's not it's not 1496 01:14:09,916 --> 01:14:12,716 Speaker 2: the extent of like have you seen Walkhard the Dewey 1497 01:14:12,796 --> 01:14:14,996 Speaker 2: Cops story, where it's like, you know, Dewey has to 1498 01:14:15,116 --> 01:14:16,596 Speaker 2: you know, he's sitting in a corner by himself and 1499 01:14:16,596 --> 01:14:18,796 Speaker 2: somebody's like, don't bother me. He has to relive every 1500 01:14:18,836 --> 01:14:20,836 Speaker 2: moment of his life before he goes on stage. You know, 1501 01:14:21,396 --> 01:14:23,596 Speaker 2: it's not it's not quite that dramatic. But I do 1502 01:14:23,796 --> 01:14:27,036 Speaker 2: find that when I'm performing a song, I do try 1503 01:14:27,076 --> 01:14:30,396 Speaker 2: to place myself back in, reconnecting with the imagery that 1504 01:14:30,996 --> 01:14:33,036 Speaker 2: made me want to write that song in the first place. 1505 01:14:33,116 --> 01:14:35,316 Speaker 2: So it's like, it's as if, you know, it's kind 1506 01:14:35,316 --> 01:14:38,076 Speaker 2: of a slightly pretentious thing to call songs like little movies, 1507 01:14:38,596 --> 01:14:42,516 Speaker 2: but there is there's a collection of imagery that was 1508 01:14:42,596 --> 01:14:45,236 Speaker 2: in my mind when I wrote that song, and I 1509 01:14:45,676 --> 01:14:49,116 Speaker 2: find myself accessing that again. I don't place, I don't 1510 01:14:49,116 --> 01:14:52,516 Speaker 2: place the narrative in my mind in a contemporary context 1511 01:14:52,596 --> 01:14:54,876 Speaker 2: or in my life now, So it can be a 1512 01:14:54,876 --> 01:14:57,916 Speaker 2: little bit of a headfuck to it. Certainly with a 1513 01:14:57,956 --> 01:15:00,796 Speaker 2: lot of my songs, be kind of reintroducing yourself to 1514 01:15:00,876 --> 01:15:04,516 Speaker 2: all of your failings every night. But at the same time, 1515 01:15:04,596 --> 01:15:06,676 Speaker 2: I think it's also a really wonderful way to gain 1516 01:15:06,716 --> 01:15:09,156 Speaker 2: perspective on where you are in your life today. I 1517 01:15:09,156 --> 01:15:10,716 Speaker 2: play a song I wrote when I was twenty, and 1518 01:15:11,236 --> 01:15:13,996 Speaker 2: the lyrics are by a twenty year old. That's not 1519 01:15:14,076 --> 01:15:15,556 Speaker 2: to say that they're good or bad, but that's just 1520 01:15:15,556 --> 01:15:19,596 Speaker 2: who they were written by. And there are very few things, thankfully, 1521 01:15:19,676 --> 01:15:21,636 Speaker 2: that resonate in that song that I wrote when I 1522 01:15:21,716 --> 01:15:24,356 Speaker 2: was twenty with my forty six year old self. You know, 1523 01:15:24,396 --> 01:15:28,996 Speaker 2: I'm an emotionally, hopefully slightly developed person at least since then. 1524 01:15:29,596 --> 01:15:31,996 Speaker 2: So yeah, I do find I do place myself in 1525 01:15:32,076 --> 01:15:33,996 Speaker 2: the song. I remember who the songs were about. I 1526 01:15:34,116 --> 01:15:38,236 Speaker 2: kind of pay I have to the honor them forgiving 1527 01:15:38,316 --> 01:15:41,076 Speaker 2: me the song by kind of thinking about them. 1528 01:15:41,556 --> 01:15:44,596 Speaker 1: I'm performing them. You know, you mentioned the imagery involved 1529 01:15:44,596 --> 01:15:48,196 Speaker 1: with writing songs. The songs, particularly in translanticism, I feel 1530 01:15:48,436 --> 01:15:50,156 Speaker 1: are so and it was one of the things that 1531 01:15:50,196 --> 01:15:53,516 Speaker 1: struck me from the very first time hearing it. They 1532 01:15:53,556 --> 01:15:56,316 Speaker 1: are really visual, Like I mean, just even that theme 1533 01:15:56,436 --> 01:15:58,876 Speaker 1: tiny vessels and the and the bruise, and that leaves 1534 01:15:58,876 --> 01:16:01,036 Speaker 1: and then it goes. You know, it's like a title registration, 1535 01:16:01,196 --> 01:16:04,436 Speaker 1: same thing. And I noticed with title registration though on 1536 01:16:04,596 --> 01:16:07,396 Speaker 1: the demo version the lyrics were a little different. The 1537 01:16:07,436 --> 01:16:09,836 Speaker 1: album version was much more leaned into the imagery of 1538 01:16:10,316 --> 01:16:14,276 Speaker 1: the glove compartment. Going for the documentation. There's a lot 1539 01:16:14,316 --> 01:16:16,796 Speaker 1: of beautiful imagery in that record, and I love the 1540 01:16:16,876 --> 01:16:19,476 Speaker 1: way that it's it's it's all weave together, all kind 1541 01:16:19,516 --> 01:16:20,036 Speaker 1: of wraps up. 1542 01:16:20,316 --> 01:16:20,956 Speaker 3: Thank you. Yeah. 1543 01:16:20,996 --> 01:16:23,676 Speaker 2: I mean, I think the first three records be it 1544 01:16:23,796 --> 01:16:26,316 Speaker 2: not by design, but just by default. I think the 1545 01:16:26,476 --> 01:16:29,276 Speaker 2: lyrics ended up being a little bit more obtuse and 1546 01:16:29,396 --> 01:16:33,556 Speaker 2: a little bit more like Stipeen than, you know, than 1547 01:16:33,636 --> 01:16:36,236 Speaker 2: Gibbardian in the sense where I was I was writing 1548 01:16:36,276 --> 01:16:38,036 Speaker 2: these I think when you like kind of when I 1549 01:16:38,116 --> 01:16:40,436 Speaker 2: call through the lyrics of the first three records, you know, 1550 01:16:40,476 --> 01:16:43,116 Speaker 2: there are some songs that are kind of relatively straight narratives. 1551 01:16:43,156 --> 01:16:44,716 Speaker 2: There's a lot of songs that are kind of they're 1552 01:16:44,716 --> 01:16:48,076 Speaker 2: a little they're more obtuse, a little more impressionistic. And 1553 01:16:48,156 --> 01:16:51,556 Speaker 2: I think by the time I was writing stuff for Translanticism, 1554 01:16:51,636 --> 01:16:53,676 Speaker 2: I started to really lean into this idea of I 1555 01:16:53,796 --> 01:16:56,996 Speaker 2: want people to hear the song one time and be 1556 01:16:57,036 --> 01:17:00,396 Speaker 2: able to see it, yeah, to see something rather than like, 1557 01:17:00,716 --> 01:17:03,596 Speaker 2: you know, like I was listening to like RIM's Reckoning 1558 01:17:03,676 --> 01:17:05,676 Speaker 2: not that long ago, and which is I've been listening 1559 01:17:05,716 --> 01:17:08,516 Speaker 2: to for thirty five years or whatever, and I still 1560 01:17:08,596 --> 01:17:09,956 Speaker 2: know what the fun he's talking about in a lot 1561 01:17:09,956 --> 01:17:11,636 Speaker 2: of these songs, right, you know, And I haven't and 1562 01:17:11,956 --> 01:17:14,916 Speaker 2: I've never actually delved into the lyrics and tried to 1563 01:17:14,996 --> 01:17:17,476 Speaker 2: decipher them, you know. But then again, you put on 1564 01:17:17,596 --> 01:17:20,116 Speaker 2: songs amount of time and you're right there, You're like 1565 01:17:20,916 --> 01:17:23,756 Speaker 2: you put on Losing My Religion or Low or any 1566 01:17:23,796 --> 01:17:25,076 Speaker 2: of the songs and you're just like, wow, yeah, no, 1567 01:17:25,116 --> 01:17:26,916 Speaker 2: I get it. I'm here, like you know, Me and 1568 01:17:26,996 --> 01:17:30,356 Speaker 2: Honey a fucking amazing song. And you know, I wouldn't 1569 01:17:30,356 --> 01:17:33,116 Speaker 2: say that the lyrics got better for myself or for 1570 01:17:33,356 --> 01:17:37,596 Speaker 2: Michael Stipe as much as you know, the obtuseness, the 1571 01:17:37,796 --> 01:17:40,956 Speaker 2: abstractness started to kind of become a little bit more 1572 01:17:41,036 --> 01:17:45,156 Speaker 2: literal and a little bit more observational. And so I 1573 01:17:45,196 --> 01:17:47,876 Speaker 2: guess when I'm writing a song now, or or certainly 1574 01:17:48,196 --> 01:17:51,396 Speaker 2: around translanticism. You know, the idea would be you listen 1575 01:17:51,436 --> 01:17:53,436 Speaker 2: to it once you understand what the song's about, but 1576 01:17:53,476 --> 01:17:55,076 Speaker 2: there are turns of phrase that you go like, well, 1577 01:17:55,116 --> 01:17:55,756 Speaker 2: what did you just say? 1578 01:17:56,756 --> 01:17:57,516 Speaker 1: That was fucking cool? 1579 01:17:57,516 --> 01:17:57,876 Speaker 5: I like that. 1580 01:17:58,356 --> 01:18:01,076 Speaker 2: But I think on some of the earlier records there 1581 01:18:01,116 --> 01:18:03,516 Speaker 2: are so many kind of obscure turns of phrases that 1582 01:18:04,196 --> 01:18:06,636 Speaker 2: in the less effective moments, it's kind of a word salad. 1583 01:18:06,716 --> 01:18:08,276 Speaker 1: It's a much more eloquent way of saying what I 1584 01:18:08,436 --> 01:18:10,556 Speaker 1: was trying to say. Yeah, there's these. 1585 01:18:10,596 --> 01:18:12,596 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's it's like that's but that's kind 1586 01:18:12,596 --> 01:18:13,756 Speaker 2: of the idea, right, you want to kind of like 1587 01:18:13,916 --> 01:18:16,396 Speaker 2: I the hope is not to tip too far into 1588 01:18:17,236 --> 01:18:19,916 Speaker 2: bland writing, you know, where you're just kind of writing 1589 01:18:20,356 --> 01:18:22,916 Speaker 2: I'm happy, I'm sad this thing happened. 1590 01:18:23,236 --> 01:18:25,276 Speaker 1: Yeah, So that the goal is to kind of. 1591 01:18:25,476 --> 01:18:27,236 Speaker 2: Virtually everything I've written since has been like I want 1592 01:18:27,276 --> 01:18:28,636 Speaker 2: people to be able to put it on and they 1593 01:18:28,716 --> 01:18:30,956 Speaker 2: hear it once and they get it, but then there's 1594 01:18:31,036 --> 01:18:31,836 Speaker 2: things to go back to you. 1595 01:18:31,836 --> 01:18:33,236 Speaker 1: And kind of like what did you say there? Yeah? 1596 01:18:33,236 --> 01:18:35,276 Speaker 2: I like that, yeah, And you know, sometimes I pull 1597 01:18:35,316 --> 01:18:36,156 Speaker 2: it off sometimes I don't. 1598 01:18:36,236 --> 01:18:38,596 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's incredible. I don't want to keep you too long. 1599 01:18:38,716 --> 01:18:40,876 Speaker 1: Can we do a post server song? 1600 01:18:40,956 --> 01:18:43,876 Speaker 2: And yeah, for sure, Yeah I got I think I 1601 01:18:44,076 --> 01:18:47,476 Speaker 2: know which one would be good here, m h. 1602 01:19:00,156 --> 01:19:04,156 Speaker 5: I'll be the grapes ferments is bottled and served, the 1603 01:19:04,316 --> 01:19:08,276 Speaker 5: table set and my fine is like a perfect chance 1604 01:19:08,396 --> 01:19:12,596 Speaker 5: was now. I'll be the fire escape that's bolted to 1605 01:19:13,196 --> 01:19:14,596 Speaker 5: the ancient brick. 1606 01:19:14,716 --> 01:19:31,676 Speaker 3: Where you will set and contemplate your day. I'll be 1607 01:19:32,236 --> 01:19:35,996 Speaker 3: the water wings that save you if you start drowning 1608 01:19:36,116 --> 01:19:39,876 Speaker 3: in an open tat, and your judgments on the plain. 1609 01:19:40,516 --> 01:19:43,756 Speaker 3: I'll be the phone, a graph that play is your 1610 01:19:43,836 --> 01:19:49,356 Speaker 3: favorite album's back as your line fifteen off to sleep. 1611 01:19:52,956 --> 01:19:57,596 Speaker 3: I'll be the platform shoes undo what heredities stunned to 1612 01:19:57,756 --> 01:20:02,116 Speaker 3: you you'll have to string to look into my eyes. 1613 01:20:02,236 --> 01:20:06,716 Speaker 5: I'll be your winter coat buttons zip straight to the 1614 01:20:06,916 --> 01:20:07,676 Speaker 5: throat with the. 1615 01:20:07,796 --> 01:20:11,076 Speaker 3: Call so you won't catch cold. 1616 01:20:12,436 --> 01:20:16,436 Speaker 5: I want to take you far from this cynics in 1617 01:20:16,676 --> 01:20:22,156 Speaker 5: this town and kiss you on the mouth. We'll cut 1618 01:20:22,356 --> 01:20:27,756 Speaker 5: our bodies free from that severs of this scene, start 1619 01:20:27,836 --> 01:20:32,956 Speaker 5: a brand new colony where everything will change. 1620 01:20:33,756 --> 01:20:38,636 Speaker 3: We'll give ourselves new name. I did it, He's or. 1621 01:20:38,676 --> 01:20:44,716 Speaker 5: Right The sun will heat the crown under our bare 1622 01:20:44,836 --> 01:21:03,556 Speaker 5: feet in this brand new colony, this brand new colony, and. 1623 01:21:05,916 --> 01:21:53,396 Speaker 3: Every thing will shame. A free things will shame, then 1624 01:21:53,756 --> 01:22:00,316 Speaker 3: a free things will shame. 1625 01:22:09,956 --> 01:22:12,516 Speaker 1: That was really beautiful. Thanks man, Thank you. It occurred 1626 01:22:12,556 --> 01:22:14,356 Speaker 1: to me listening to that brought up O Kade Fire 1627 01:22:14,356 --> 01:22:16,516 Speaker 1: earlier and not for nothing. I mean, I feel like 1628 01:22:16,716 --> 01:22:21,476 Speaker 1: give up translanticism. A year later, ArKade Fire's Funeral kind 1629 01:22:21,516 --> 01:22:24,636 Speaker 1: of felt like indie rock growing up finally in a 1630 01:22:24,676 --> 01:22:25,156 Speaker 1: weird way. 1631 01:22:25,276 --> 01:22:25,436 Speaker 4: You know. 1632 01:22:25,556 --> 01:22:27,636 Speaker 1: It's like like to your point of like it sort 1633 01:22:27,676 --> 01:22:30,076 Speaker 1: of started to permeate into popular culture at that time. 1634 01:22:30,156 --> 01:22:32,916 Speaker 1: Like the songwriting on these two records are incredible, and 1635 01:22:33,156 --> 01:22:35,956 Speaker 1: what a great time for music. 1636 01:22:36,396 --> 01:22:38,276 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, I obviously being a part 1637 01:22:38,316 --> 01:22:39,876 Speaker 2: of it, you know, it's in my best interest to 1638 01:22:39,956 --> 01:22:42,716 Speaker 2: kind of take that position as well. But yeah, you know, 1639 01:22:42,796 --> 01:22:45,356 Speaker 2: it just felt like none of us would have had 1640 01:22:45,996 --> 01:22:49,796 Speaker 2: the careers we have had or the popularity of success 1641 01:22:49,836 --> 01:22:53,996 Speaker 2: that we had about all of the artists that kind 1642 01:22:54,036 --> 01:22:56,836 Speaker 2: of laid the groundwork for us in the nineties and 1643 01:22:56,876 --> 01:22:59,156 Speaker 2: even before that, you know, So there's a lot of 1644 01:22:59,196 --> 01:23:00,916 Speaker 2: bands that you know, we talked about earlier that I 1645 01:23:00,956 --> 01:23:03,996 Speaker 2: grew up with that. You know, I felt to this 1646 01:23:04,116 --> 01:23:07,036 Speaker 2: day I still deserve more lip service, you know, but 1647 01:23:07,196 --> 01:23:10,356 Speaker 2: I suppose that sometime is sometimes is the blessing and 1648 01:23:10,436 --> 01:23:13,716 Speaker 2: the curse of being, you know, a cult influence. 1649 01:23:13,876 --> 01:23:16,276 Speaker 1: You know, it's fair enough, but you know, I'm sure, 1650 01:23:16,396 --> 01:23:18,636 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, it feels like a decade 1651 01:23:18,636 --> 01:23:22,156 Speaker 1: by decade, so many cult influences are kind of getting 1652 01:23:22,196 --> 01:23:25,996 Speaker 1: their dune. I'm sure. I'm sure it'll it'll get there 1653 01:23:26,076 --> 01:23:26,556 Speaker 1: at some point. 1654 01:23:26,716 --> 01:23:28,836 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you see the works of Numero's doing on 1655 01:23:28,996 --> 01:23:31,716 Speaker 2: behalf of you know, a lot of a lot of bands. 1656 01:23:31,556 --> 01:23:33,676 Speaker 1: Favorite music, A lot is coming from like stuff you know, 1657 01:23:33,756 --> 01:23:36,276 Speaker 1: from like the stuff like Numero's putting out or whatever. 1658 01:23:36,356 --> 01:23:39,596 Speaker 2: You're like, like Jesus, Yeah, they're doing a phenomenal job. 1659 01:23:39,756 --> 01:23:43,516 Speaker 2: And there's a band called Rex that was really influential 1660 01:23:43,716 --> 01:23:47,716 Speaker 2: and important to me and Numero. You know there there's 1661 01:23:47,796 --> 01:23:49,516 Speaker 2: one a couple of their records that were not available 1662 01:23:49,516 --> 01:23:52,516 Speaker 2: on vinyl, and then Lo and Behold coming out in Numeros, 1663 01:23:52,556 --> 01:23:54,636 Speaker 2: So I like pre ordered that ship immediately. 1664 01:23:54,676 --> 01:23:55,556 Speaker 1: I was like, got to have that. 1665 01:23:56,396 --> 01:23:59,356 Speaker 2: Our friends in this band called the American Analog Set, 1666 01:23:59,396 --> 01:24:03,236 Speaker 2: who are from Austin Numeros doing a rereleasing their first 1667 01:24:03,276 --> 01:24:05,796 Speaker 2: three records, which are wonderful albums. So yeah, I mean, 1668 01:24:06,036 --> 01:24:08,796 Speaker 2: it's it's it's really it's it's really kind of heartening 1669 01:24:08,836 --> 01:24:10,996 Speaker 2: to see a lot of this music kind of have 1670 01:24:11,076 --> 01:24:13,356 Speaker 2: a second life. And it's also been just incredibly interesting 1671 01:24:13,396 --> 01:24:17,316 Speaker 2: to see what stuff has kind of been hitting in 1672 01:24:17,396 --> 01:24:19,676 Speaker 2: the culture in a way that I never would have 1673 01:24:19,916 --> 01:24:22,556 Speaker 2: imagined it doing. I mean, like, you know, I love Unwound. 1674 01:24:22,636 --> 01:24:23,836 Speaker 1: I think they're really important to me. 1675 01:24:23,876 --> 01:24:25,756 Speaker 2: I never in a million years thought that Unwound would 1676 01:24:25,756 --> 01:24:27,316 Speaker 2: be a popular band in twenty twenty three. 1677 01:24:27,396 --> 01:24:29,836 Speaker 1: I think that's fucking awesome. It's amazing. But it's a. 1678 01:24:29,836 --> 01:24:31,996 Speaker 2: Testament to like, yeah, you make great shit. It might 1679 01:24:32,076 --> 01:24:34,396 Speaker 2: not hit like in the in it might be before 1680 01:24:34,396 --> 01:24:35,476 Speaker 2: it's time, you know. 1681 01:24:35,556 --> 01:24:37,196 Speaker 1: There. You know, a lot of this music, a lot. 1682 01:24:37,076 --> 01:24:41,076 Speaker 2: Of this books, film, culture, whatever is being kind of 1683 01:24:41,236 --> 01:24:43,436 Speaker 2: is resurfacing and finding a new audience. 1684 01:24:43,436 --> 01:24:44,956 Speaker 1: And I think that's just how one with you. Man. 1685 01:24:44,996 --> 01:24:46,796 Speaker 1: My biggest fear is in dying. My biggest fear is 1686 01:24:46,876 --> 01:24:49,716 Speaker 1: dying before like my next favorite record kids, you know, 1687 01:24:49,876 --> 01:24:52,996 Speaker 1: uncovered from the sixties or some shit, you know. 1688 01:24:53,796 --> 01:24:55,596 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, I'm so waiting for somebody to put out 1689 01:24:55,676 --> 01:24:58,396 Speaker 2: like a a retrospective of this band called the Dovers 1690 01:24:58,996 --> 01:25:01,596 Speaker 2: like who that I loved in the sixties. So maybe 1691 01:25:01,596 --> 01:25:03,436 Speaker 2: I don't know if it's good for Numero, but somebody, 1692 01:25:03,476 --> 01:25:04,436 Speaker 2: somebody out there listening to. 1693 01:25:04,716 --> 01:25:07,356 Speaker 1: Someone hears that they do it. Speaking of an American 1694 01:25:07,356 --> 01:25:09,956 Speaker 1: Allocks it too. Always always loved Diversion, a choir vandalist. 1695 01:25:09,996 --> 01:25:11,636 Speaker 1: It was on the on the Oh thank you at 1696 01:25:11,636 --> 01:25:14,276 Speaker 1: Home EP. You guys did that's buddy. 1697 01:25:14,156 --> 01:25:14,676 Speaker 3: Yeah, those guys. 1698 01:25:14,716 --> 01:25:16,676 Speaker 2: But we became friends with those guys. I think we 1699 01:25:16,756 --> 01:25:19,636 Speaker 2: met them at Southwest Southwest in ninety nine. It was 1700 01:25:19,676 --> 01:25:22,076 Speaker 2: the first band that we had become friends with outside 1701 01:25:22,116 --> 01:25:27,036 Speaker 2: of our immediate circle in Seattle or Bellingham. And you know, yeah, 1702 01:25:27,076 --> 01:25:29,556 Speaker 2: we did some early touring with them, and you know, 1703 01:25:29,676 --> 01:25:32,116 Speaker 2: there are friends to this day. I literally saw, you know, 1704 01:25:32,156 --> 01:25:33,556 Speaker 2: I saw a couple of them in Austin, and saw 1705 01:25:33,636 --> 01:25:35,116 Speaker 2: when we were in Berlin. One of the guys lives 1706 01:25:35,116 --> 01:25:37,156 Speaker 2: in Berlin now, so we've we've maintained a friendship over 1707 01:25:37,196 --> 01:25:39,396 Speaker 2: the years. Yeah, they're wonderful people, great band. 1708 01:25:39,476 --> 01:25:41,676 Speaker 1: It's amazing. It's wild. It's wild to be in a 1709 01:25:41,716 --> 01:25:43,436 Speaker 1: place in my life now where I'm saying shit like now, 1710 01:25:43,476 --> 01:25:43,756 Speaker 1: you got. 1711 01:25:43,756 --> 01:25:45,996 Speaker 2: To understand this was nineteen ninety eight. You know, we 1712 01:25:46,076 --> 01:25:49,276 Speaker 2: didn't have for fucking iPhone. You couldn't just dial up 1713 01:25:49,316 --> 01:25:51,196 Speaker 2: a whole food so you couldn't get Ubert who Eats to. 1714 01:25:51,156 --> 01:25:51,876 Speaker 1: Bring your food. You know. 1715 01:25:51,916 --> 01:25:55,116 Speaker 2: It's like I've been working with some younger artists working 1716 01:25:55,156 --> 01:25:58,956 Speaker 2: on music here and there, and it's like, you know, 1717 01:25:59,036 --> 01:26:00,036 Speaker 2: it's like, I think one of the things that we're 1718 01:26:00,036 --> 01:26:03,596 Speaker 2: about getting older is that you're seeing the world through 1719 01:26:03,876 --> 01:26:05,676 Speaker 2: you know, in your mind you look through your eyes 1720 01:26:05,716 --> 01:26:07,596 Speaker 2: are still like twenty five or whatever. You know, you're 1721 01:26:07,596 --> 01:26:10,116 Speaker 2: still like but then you're around young people and you think, like, 1722 01:26:10,196 --> 01:26:12,356 Speaker 2: I'm one of you, I'm a young person. And then 1723 01:26:12,356 --> 01:26:14,676 Speaker 2: you start talking at them and you see them glaze 1724 01:26:14,716 --> 01:26:16,796 Speaker 2: over and you're like, oh no, I'm like they're day yeah, yeah, 1725 01:26:16,956 --> 01:26:18,956 Speaker 2: like I'm talking about some I'm on some shit that 1726 01:26:19,116 --> 01:26:20,996 Speaker 2: like they have no fucking idea, and it's like why 1727 01:26:21,036 --> 01:26:23,676 Speaker 2: should they they don't. It's like they shouldn't know who 1728 01:26:24,836 --> 01:26:25,436 Speaker 2: Slint is. 1729 01:26:25,596 --> 01:26:26,796 Speaker 1: They don't. Why would they fucking go? 1730 01:26:26,956 --> 01:26:28,796 Speaker 2: You know, they got their own they got you know, 1731 01:26:28,836 --> 01:26:29,916 Speaker 2: they got their own bands. 1732 01:26:29,956 --> 01:26:31,236 Speaker 1: You know, they don't need our band less you know, 1733 01:26:31,676 --> 01:26:33,196 Speaker 1: you know, the fun's up things like I'm not even 1734 01:26:33,236 --> 01:26:36,036 Speaker 1: I'm thirty three, and so I should still feel a 1735 01:26:36,076 --> 01:26:40,196 Speaker 1: little young. But I think because I grew up for 1736 01:26:40,356 --> 01:26:41,996 Speaker 1: a fair amount of time, and maybe it's just because 1737 01:26:41,996 --> 01:26:44,356 Speaker 1: my family was poor. You know, we had the internet 1738 01:26:44,436 --> 01:26:46,356 Speaker 1: much later, and like we didn't even have like we 1739 01:26:46,396 --> 01:26:48,076 Speaker 1: didn't have cable and stuff. So like there was there 1740 01:26:48,156 --> 01:26:50,276 Speaker 1: was a bit of a fair amount of my life. 1741 01:26:50,316 --> 01:26:51,596 Speaker 1: It was like tethered to the real world. 1742 01:26:51,636 --> 01:26:51,756 Speaker 4: You know. 1743 01:26:51,796 --> 01:26:54,876 Speaker 1: I teach a college course and it's like the fuck. 1744 01:26:54,916 --> 01:26:57,876 Speaker 1: It's like, fuck, I'm I am a fucking dinosaur to 1745 01:26:57,916 --> 01:26:58,316 Speaker 1: these people. 1746 01:26:58,476 --> 01:26:58,636 Speaker 4: You know. 1747 01:26:59,356 --> 01:27:02,156 Speaker 2: Yeah, man, dude, I know the feeling. But you know what, 1748 01:27:02,396 --> 01:27:05,036 Speaker 2: like with age comes wisdom, you know. I don't know 1749 01:27:05,076 --> 01:27:07,116 Speaker 2: if anybody, if anybody wants it, but like. 1750 01:27:07,916 --> 01:27:10,796 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's it's been a try it ma'am. Ben Gibbert, 1751 01:27:10,796 --> 01:27:12,996 Speaker 1: thank you so much, man. I appreciate you taking the time. 1752 01:27:13,076 --> 01:27:16,116 Speaker 1: It's I mean, and thank you for the music most 1753 01:27:16,196 --> 01:27:17,476 Speaker 1: of all more than anything. 1754 01:27:17,556 --> 01:27:20,156 Speaker 2: Oh, I really appreciate you having me on me. I'm 1755 01:27:20,156 --> 01:27:21,636 Speaker 2: a fan of what you guys do on this pod, 1756 01:27:21,756 --> 01:27:23,116 Speaker 2: so it's nice to be a guest. 1757 01:27:26,356 --> 01:27:28,436 Speaker 1: Thanks to Ben Gibbert for playing live for us and 1758 01:27:28,596 --> 01:27:32,916 Speaker 1: going deep on his writing and album creation process. You 1759 01:27:32,956 --> 01:27:34,956 Speaker 1: can hear all of our favorite Ben Gibberd songs on 1760 01:27:35,076 --> 01:27:38,556 Speaker 1: a playlist at broken record podcast dot com. You can 1761 01:27:38,556 --> 01:27:41,956 Speaker 1: subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash 1762 01:27:42,076 --> 01:27:44,676 Speaker 1: broken Record Podcast, where you can find all of our 1763 01:27:44,756 --> 01:27:48,996 Speaker 1: new episodes. Broken Record is produced with help from Leah Rose, 1764 01:27:49,196 --> 01:27:54,756 Speaker 1: Jason Gambrell, Ben Talliday, Nisha Venkat, Jordan McMillan, and Eric Sanderman. 1765 01:27:55,356 --> 01:27:59,636 Speaker 1: Our editor is Sophie Crane. Broken Record is a production 1766 01:27:59,756 --> 01:28:02,556 Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others 1767 01:28:02,556 --> 01:28:07,236 Speaker 1: from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is 1768 01:28:07,276 --> 01:28:11,236 Speaker 1: a podcast subscription service that offers bonus content and uninterrupted 1769 01:28:11,356 --> 01:28:14,276 Speaker 1: ad free listening for only four ninety nine a month. 1770 01:28:15,076 --> 01:28:19,076 Speaker 1: Look for Pushing and Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and 1771 01:28:19,156 --> 01:28:21,276 Speaker 1: if you like the show, remember to share, rate, and 1772 01:28:21,356 --> 01:28:24,556 Speaker 1: review us on your podcast s app Our themes Expect 1773 01:28:24,556 --> 01:28:26,596 Speaker 1: Canny Beats, I'm justin Richmond.