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Speaker 1: And now move the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.

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Speaker 1: What's up, everybody? Welcome to move the sticks, DJ and

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Speaker 1: Buck with you?

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Speaker 2: Buck? What is going on? Man? Uh? DJ?

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Speaker 3: Just trying to recover from March madness, just trying to

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Speaker 3: recover from the craziness that ensues.

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Speaker 2: Look, I can't tell you that I'm completely heart broken.

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Speaker 3: Had a nineteen point lead and somehow messed it up.

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Speaker 3: I can't say that I'm heartbroken, but I can say

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Speaker 3: that I'm very pleased they're out too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're okay with that? That was insane. I gave it.

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Speaker 1: I saw the score. I didn't even turn it on.

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Speaker 1: And then my son called me and he was like,

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Speaker 1: did you see the end of that game? And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: did they make it close? He's like they won. I'm

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Speaker 1: like what? And then I saw the replays. What an

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Speaker 1: incredible what an incredible play at the end of the game,

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Speaker 1: and then the Grant Hill cut away. As a North

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Speaker 1: Carolina fan, that had to be the sweetest part of

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Speaker 1: that whole thing. When did you see the camera on

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Speaker 1: the booth or the on the broadcast?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I saw Look, I mean just just all of it. Now,

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Speaker 3: I will say this. I feel bad for them because

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Speaker 3: they've had a ton of good players that have come

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Speaker 3: through that they haven't been able to get it done.

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Speaker 3: But I think it speaks to the challenge of winning

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Speaker 3: a championship in that format. It is hard to win

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Speaker 3: six games in a single elimination tournament when there's so

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Speaker 3: much pressure on it. Kudos to Yukon and the other

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Speaker 3: teams that are in the four. It is just a

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Speaker 3: very hard tournament to.

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Speaker 1: Winn, no doubt. That was incredible, incredible, and we'll see

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Speaker 1: what the final four looks like. Your Dodgers are three

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Speaker 1: and oh my Potters are one and two. But we

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Speaker 1: got our win. Now, we got we got all that

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Speaker 1: pressure off. Now we can just lock in and get

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Speaker 1: focused and get on a little bit of a role

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Speaker 1: here Buck.

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Speaker 3: The only thing that I'm excited about. Did you have

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Speaker 3: For disclosure, I've never purchased a jersey. I don't have

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Speaker 3: a job jersey anywhere in the closet. But I think

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Speaker 3: I may here have to pull out the number three.

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Speaker 3: I think may get me. I think I think the

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Speaker 3: little trumpet.

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Speaker 2: And everything I think is my favorite little thing. If

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Speaker 2: I could put a ring, oh, I think I think

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Speaker 2: it's my thing. I'm kind of feeling it. I'm digging it.

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Speaker 2: I like it.

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Speaker 1: First of all, Mason Miller has a better entrance. You

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Speaker 1: saw that when when he came in. Mason Miller is

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Speaker 1: a better picture. And also this whole like this whole

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Speaker 1: like having music come in for closers. You know where

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Speaker 1: that started, right, I was Trevor Hoffman with Hell's Bells.

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Speaker 1: That was what he was the first one that did that.

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Speaker 1: He launched this whole new craze and the Dodgers and

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Speaker 1: they're just so boring and uncreative, like, let's just do

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Speaker 1: the same exact thing that the Mets did with him.

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Speaker 1: Let's just copy the exact same thing because we don't

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Speaker 1: have any original thoughts. So let's just bring him in

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Speaker 1: here and then oh wow, have the Dodgers fans are

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Speaker 1: already at the stadium at that point in time. Anyways,

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Speaker 1: all right, let's get this. Let's get some football here,

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Speaker 1: because I want to have a conversation with you. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't gonna talk about some pro days, but I want

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Speaker 1: to hit something else first. We've had the discussion in

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Speaker 1: the past. I want to see if anything's changed with you,

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Speaker 1: and we kick it around a little bit. But I

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Speaker 1: want to go through a few positions and see what

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Speaker 1: are the non negotiables, because during this time of year,

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Speaker 1: I don't know where you are. You're doing the top

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Speaker 1: fives and I'm I'm got to pump out the last

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Speaker 1: top one point fifty, which is coming up here in

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks. And so as I get laiter down,

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Speaker 1: there's and it's like this. In the draft room, you

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Speaker 1: got a lot of identically graded players. So within the positions,

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Speaker 1: when you have players that are great and the same,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about what do you think a

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Speaker 1: non negotiable would be in that in terms of like

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Speaker 1: this player has this strength versus that weakness, and that's

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Speaker 1: why I'm going to give this person a nod at

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Speaker 1: the same grade.

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Speaker 2: Is that cool?

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Speaker 1: All right, let's let's start. I want to start on

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Speaker 1: the perimeter of the field here, So let's start with

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Speaker 1: the wide receiver position. Buck, give me, give me the

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Speaker 1: non negotiable, like, got to have it for you at

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Speaker 1: the wide receiver position.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, I think first things first, like ball skills,

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Speaker 3: hand that coordination. They got to be able to catch

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Speaker 3: the ball like that nature. That's the job description. You

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Speaker 3: got to be able to catch it. And then for me,

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Speaker 3: DJ the thing that we've talked about of late, however

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Speaker 3: you want to describe it, contact, balance, run after catch,

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Speaker 3: your ability to break tackles, to put pressure on the

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Speaker 3: defense when the ball is in your hands. To me,

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Speaker 3: that is in essential. You have to be able to

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Speaker 3: take these short passes and potentially make big games out

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Speaker 3: of them. I want someone who is physical enough to

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Speaker 3: make the first guy missed and has some physicality and

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Speaker 3: toughness to him that we can lean on him.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to summarize you on a couple things

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Speaker 1: there that I think we're going to be a lot

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Speaker 1: of the same things here hands in rack where the

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Speaker 1: two of what I took from what you just said

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Speaker 1: is like two things tangible things you can look at.

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Speaker 1: And then that ties in with my two things, which

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Speaker 1: were competitiveness and toughness. Like I just I'm going to

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Speaker 1: lean towards those tougher guys. You said the same thing

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Speaker 1: as you're kind of going through your answer there. To me,

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Speaker 1: I think those are kind of some tie breakers where

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Speaker 1: I'm going to say this guy's four three seven, that's fine,

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Speaker 1: my guy's four five two, but this my guy's tougher,

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Speaker 1: he's more competitive, maybe more run after catch like you're

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Speaker 1: talking about, more just relying able, strong hands attacks the

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Speaker 1: ball like there's I don't know, it's it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like you know when you see it. But there's a

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Speaker 1: there's an intensity, there's a focus that's that goes into

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Speaker 1: guys who catch the ball really well and who also

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Speaker 1: are are really tough.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think toughness has to be a part

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Speaker 3: of everything that we're talking about. We're gona be a

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Speaker 3: championship team, We've got to operate at a high level

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Speaker 3: of toughness. And for those guys on the perimeter, if

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Speaker 3: you're not a one, two or three, you have to

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Speaker 3: be able to contribute on special teams and so that

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Speaker 3: physicality and toughness, all of that that is a big

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Speaker 3: part of being a special teams contributed.

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Speaker 1: That's what elevates the floor. Let's go to the corner position.

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Speaker 3: It's weird to say this, but now I'm moving to

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Speaker 3: the fact that I want someone with a complete toolbox.

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Speaker 3: I used to be a heavy, a bump and run corner.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to be able to get nose to nose,

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Speaker 3: snuff them out. I'm moving away from that, and I

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Speaker 3: would like someone that they can do that, but I

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Speaker 3: want them to be able to play off in space

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Speaker 3: and keep the quarterback, play manizon and utilize a few

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Speaker 3: different techniques. So a full toolbox, and then tackling has

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Speaker 3: to be man If it's not one of the top

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Speaker 3: two or three traits that you have to have, it's

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Speaker 3: gonna be hard for you to play on a defense

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Speaker 3: that I want. You have to be able to tackle

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Speaker 3: in the space right now the days of the cover

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Speaker 3: corner where I don't get involved into tackling in the

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Speaker 3: ring game, you can't play with those guys.

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Speaker 2: You have to be able to tackle on the perimeter.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one of mine too. So you've got the

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Speaker 1: full toolbox and tackling. I wrote down tackling and then

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Speaker 1: trust like trust in terms of trust in your eyes.

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Speaker 1: Guys who just there's no hesitation. They see it, they

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Speaker 1: play with they play with you know, excellent eyes and

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Speaker 1: vision and they just trust it. They're not on their heels.

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Speaker 1: Just you see it and you pull the trigger and

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Speaker 1: you go. And that can be in a run fit,

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Speaker 1: that could be in breaking on a route in front

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Speaker 1: of you, you know, And I'm willing I think to

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Speaker 1: live with maybe a boo boo here or there with

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Speaker 1: that buck. But if you're always playing on your heels

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Speaker 1: and so conservative, like we're just gonna give up a

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Speaker 1: ton of catches in a ton of yards, Like at

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Speaker 1: some point time, you gotta trust your eyes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So you're talking about someone that is aggressive mentality

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Speaker 3: in terms of when I see it, I'm gonna go

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Speaker 3: get it, and then aggressive in terms of their physicality.

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Speaker 3: When they do come up and make those plays, they're

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Speaker 3: gonna put some wood on the receiver of the ball

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Speaker 3: carry because they're not afraid to engage.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, without question. All right, let's go I

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Speaker 1: want to rip through a couple more positions here. Let's

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Speaker 1: go to the safety positions. Stay on the secondary there.

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Speaker 3: The safety position is so unique, but I would say this,

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Speaker 3: I would love in a perfect world, he needs to

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Speaker 3: be a safety with corner like feet, but a linebacker's

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Speaker 3: been touted. I need to be able to drop him

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Speaker 3: in the box and he needs to be able to

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Speaker 3: at a minimum cover the tight end in man demand.

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Speaker 3: And then in the run game, he has to be

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Speaker 3: able to be comfortable playing in.

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Speaker 2: The box and making tackles.

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Speaker 3: So cover corner like feet on the tight end, and

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Speaker 3: then in the box you have to be okay dealing

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Speaker 3: with the noise.

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Speaker 1: I like that I wrote down so cornerback feet and

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Speaker 1: linebacker mentality like that a lot for me. I'll go

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Speaker 1: back to the this is the old, tried and true.

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Speaker 1: We've talked about it before, but the Belichick one is

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Speaker 1: you can't win with dumb safeties. So I'll start first,

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Speaker 1: like my non negotiable intelligence, like communication intelligence. I think

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Speaker 1: that's of the utmost importance. So I'll put down smarts,

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Speaker 1: which can be hard for us to get that info on,

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Speaker 1: you know, this side of it as opposed to being

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Speaker 1: with the team, but you try and dig and the

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Speaker 1: other thing wro for safeties, I like smarts, and then

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Speaker 1: I also just like a little splash, like so whether

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Speaker 1: or not that's you're providing that with plays on the ball,

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Speaker 1: whether you're providing with a physical you know, hit here

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Speaker 1: or there, or whether it's even just like energy. I

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Speaker 1: just think like a lot of the best safeties, they

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Speaker 1: all the ones that I've been around. I've been around

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Speaker 1: Ed and I've been around Derwin. Those probably the best

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Speaker 1: two that I've been around. Like there are I would

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Speaker 1: say energy would be towards the top of the list

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Speaker 1: of their RULs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: No, they bring it every day and it is one

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Speaker 3: of the things. And and I know better because you

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Speaker 3: talk about i Q. I would add to the smarts,

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Speaker 3: communication and skills. Someone in the back has to be

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Speaker 3: able to serve as the traffic cop. If you have two, great,

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Speaker 3: but you have to have at least one that can

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Speaker 3: see everything that's going on and communicating.

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Speaker 2: Get everybody right.

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Speaker 3: They're one person and DJ he may be a lesser

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Speaker 3: talented player, may not have the skill, but somebody in

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Speaker 3: the secondary has to be able to line everybody up,

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Speaker 3: get us on the same page and make sure we're

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Speaker 3: all playing the right call on top of being someone

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Speaker 3: that is smart and can do it. But the communication

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Speaker 3: skills are underrated at that position.

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Speaker 1: All right, it's good. How about the how about the

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Speaker 1: tight end position?

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Speaker 2: Book?

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Speaker 3: If it's a true white tight end, I need them

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Speaker 3: to be half offensive tackle, half wide receiver like George

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Speaker 3: Kittle is the perfect one. I need them to be

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Speaker 3: a threat as a wide receiver to catch the ball

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Speaker 3: down the field. But more importantly, I need to be

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Speaker 3: able to run behind them. I can't avoid them. I

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Speaker 3: can't have a jump wide receiver playing the position. If

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Speaker 3: I'm getting a true tight end, he has to be

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Speaker 3: a factor blocking and he also has to be able

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Speaker 3: to at least be more than a little checkdown option

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Speaker 3: over the middle of the field.

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Speaker 1: Dude, if we're in the draft room right now, would

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Speaker 1: we be splitting tight end into two positions?

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Speaker 2: I think we should. I think even when we look.

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Speaker 1: I have a hard time these guys buck because some

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Speaker 1: of them are and some of them are Whys.

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Speaker 2: Like I just so, here's a funny thing.

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Speaker 3: When I've been at every team, We've always had two

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Speaker 3: tight ends. We had the why and then we had

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Speaker 3: what we called it H or a move tight end.

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Speaker 3: To me, some of these guys are moved tight end.

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Speaker 3: So when we think about Eli Stowers, he's a move

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Speaker 3: tight end. He's not a traditional why tight end. Even

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Speaker 3: Kenya Sadek would strike me more as a move tight

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Speaker 3: end at HVAC type then more your traditional guy. The

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Speaker 3: kid from Utah is a WY tight end to me,

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Speaker 3: even though he lines up plays in space. When I

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Speaker 3: look at his size, his body and the way that

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Speaker 3: he plays, he's more of a traditional why. We should

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Speaker 3: split them because some of those guys are really jumbo

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Speaker 3: slot receivers, while other guys are more of your traditional

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Speaker 3: classic tight end.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and teams using a little different person out. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they'll use different terminology on how they want to discuss that.

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Speaker 1: When I was coming up through it, we always talked

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Speaker 1: about h's and why's, And to me, it's like the

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Speaker 1: totally different positions, Like some are glorified receivers and some

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Speaker 1: are glorified tackles. So I will say, I think it's

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Speaker 1: harder to find the traditional why hand in the ground

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Speaker 1: tight end than it is to find the move guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it is.

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Speaker 3: And I think that the new hand in the ground

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Speaker 3: guy would be someone like a Ty Warren from last year.

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Speaker 3: I think he's the new version of a throwback why.

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Speaker 3: But when you watch him at Penn State, he was

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Speaker 3: more of an H back type. But to me, that

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Speaker 3: is what the league has evolved into. He is more

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Speaker 3: of the why and other guys that are You're like

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Speaker 3: Harrold Fanning Junior is more of your H back, your

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Speaker 3: wide receiver masquerading at a time in position.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: To me, I would just say, if we're talking about wise,

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Speaker 1: I want I want people that can be firm and

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Speaker 1: the run game and can stay attached. And if we're

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Speaker 1: talking about move guys, I'm talking about guys who can

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Speaker 1: separate and make things happen with the ball in their

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Speaker 1: hands after the catch. All right, let's go through a

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Speaker 1: couple more linebacker.

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Speaker 3: So if we're talking about your traditional off ball linebacker,

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Speaker 3: to me, it is the ability to dominate the box

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Speaker 3: tackle attacker. You got to be able to dominate the box.

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Speaker 3: But then I also need you to be able to

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Speaker 3: have range from numbers to numbers. We can talk about

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Speaker 3: all that other stuff, but today's game, as much as

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Speaker 3: I love the old school thumper d enforcer, it's about

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Speaker 3: speed and athleticism at that second level position. I need

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Speaker 3: you to be controlled it when they're running at you,

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Speaker 3: but I need you to be able to get to

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Speaker 3: the perimeter when they throw those bubble screens and other

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Speaker 3: things outside.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a few years back, we would have

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Speaker 1: focused more on got to be able to cover, Like,

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Speaker 1: if you can't cover, you can't stay on the field

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Speaker 1: at that linebacker position. Now, I think some of the

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Speaker 1: shift you're seeing guys, I think you got to be

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Speaker 1: able to do multiple things. So I would say two

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Speaker 1: of the three. You got to have two of the

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Speaker 1: three skill sets. You got to be able to either

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Speaker 1: rush a little bit off the edge or as a

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Speaker 1: blitzer and be dynamic in that way. You got to

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Speaker 1: be able to sort trash and play inside, or you

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Speaker 1: got to be able to cover. Like I think you've

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Speaker 1: got to have two of those three. I think that's

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Speaker 1: a non negotiable. If you're limited to the point where

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Speaker 1: you just do one of those three things, well that's hard.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's also hard to play because we jump into

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Speaker 3: so many sub packages nickels and dimes, with so many

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Speaker 3: like athletes on like sized athletes on the field, you

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Speaker 3: better be able to be a factor in space. As

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Speaker 3: much as I love the downhill thumper, I don't want

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Speaker 3: to say they going better way to the dinosaur, but

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Speaker 3: it's harder to play those guys if they can't give

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Speaker 3: you anything into passing it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt. All right, let's go one more position here.

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Speaker 1: As we were ripping through this, let's go to the

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Speaker 1: let's go to the edge rusher position.

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Speaker 3: Uh it's tough. I am so part to the athletic

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Speaker 3: edge rusher. I think first step quickness, I would say

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Speaker 3: closing bursts and then the last part, DJ, I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: say competitive stamina because the motor has to run hot

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Speaker 3: and can you play at that high level for four

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Speaker 3: quarters And the only way you do that is you

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Speaker 3: got to have the stamina to be able to last

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Speaker 3: sixty minutes.

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Speaker 1: That's a good one. I'm gonna go with like power.

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go with powers. I think to me,

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Speaker 1: when you look at those guys every year, even the

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Speaker 1: guys who are the speed guys. I was talking to

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Speaker 1: a coach about this the other day. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: speed versus power, and he said, so, if you talk

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Speaker 1: to the rushers, you know, and he was even referencing

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Speaker 1: von Miller. He was like that they the speed is

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Speaker 1: the show pitch like that, I'm just gonna show you,

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Speaker 1: so you know you have to account for that, and

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Speaker 1: now you know how far you got to kick out

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Speaker 1: And once you kick out, I'm gonna the majority of

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Speaker 1: my wins are gonna come getting you off balance, with

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Speaker 1: you getting out there and getting to you with power,

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Speaker 1: or I'm gonna be able to counter you inside. But

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Speaker 1: like I'm not. That's a that's a one out of

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Speaker 1: five is speed and not just to make you have

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Speaker 1: to account for it. But my wins, most of most

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Speaker 1: of the wins in pass rush looking at it comes

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Speaker 1: off of power somehow, Like you got to it's hard

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Speaker 1: to just it's hard to be a consistent winner if

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Speaker 1: that's not a part of your game.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to have it.

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Speaker 3: Like it's funny, right, So he's rather been talked about

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Speaker 3: in the pre Jaft discussion, but like Derek Moore from

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Speaker 3: Michigan and I have it my notes, like just a

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Speaker 3: bull rush specialist.

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Speaker 2: Everything that he does is off the Power movie.

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Speaker 3: He's gonna sit there one arm right in the middle

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Speaker 3: of your chest and then he's gonna play off of that.

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Speaker 2: And you're right.

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Speaker 3: People will say this, Oh, you gotta have all these moves,

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Speaker 3: but really you need three. You need a fastball, do

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Speaker 3: you need to change and a curve? You need something

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Speaker 3: to compliment what your thing is, your go to pitch is.

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Speaker 3: You don't need a bunch of them, but you need

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Speaker 3: to know how to set them up so you can

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Speaker 3: get to the others.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt. Well that's uh, it's fun just kind

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Speaker 1: of looking at stuff as you're starting to stack these players,

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Speaker 1: these things can come in handy. Is just saying, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm going to lean towards this skill and

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Speaker 1: not towards that one. But you got to come up

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Speaker 1: with your own when you're doing it. When you're stacking

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Speaker 1: these players, and every team, every evaluator is going to

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Speaker 1: do it a little bit differently. But I do think

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Speaker 1: that this was helpful for me. Even as I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of going through and trying to stack the back end

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Speaker 1: of the top one fifty here, I've done it with

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Speaker 1: you know, like Acus and more as power rushers. Then

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Speaker 1: you get some more speed oriented players that are kind

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Speaker 1: of in that mix and where do they slot in,

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Speaker 1: So it doesn't form how you rank them now, and.

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Speaker 2: It also depends on what else do you have on

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Speaker 2: your roster.

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Speaker 3: I believe in having we talk about basketball team at

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Speaker 3: wide receiver, I think you want to have diversity amongst

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Speaker 3: your pass rushers. You want to have a speed guy

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Speaker 3: that can win, You want to have a power guy.

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Speaker 3: You want to have someone inside that can be able

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Speaker 3: to kind of be a bull in the china shop.

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Speaker 2: But if you now, as the league.

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Speaker 3: Is evolved and more people are doing it by committee,

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Speaker 3: you want to have guys who have complimentary skills.

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Speaker 1: No doubt, A right buck. You gotta get going. You

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Speaker 1: got path to the draft, we've got we've got pro

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Speaker 1: Day coming up on Wednesday, so we'll be together for

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Speaker 1: that thing. Looking forward to that. We'll see you next time.

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Speaker 2: About a little graphic. How about a little graphic right

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Speaker 2: here that we have to move.

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Speaker 1: That is nice, that is hopefully it's not a parting yet.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully it's not a parting yet. All right, that's gonna

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Speaker 1: do it for us. We'll see you next time right

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Speaker 1: here on moving the sticks