WEBVTT - Chile and The Shock Of Victory 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:16.200 Welcomed. It happens sometimes the podcast where it's happened. Shit, Um, Garrison, Chris, somebody, somebody, 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:19.799 somebody picked this up. This is on you. Anybody anybody 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:22.599 got help paying you out of this one? Okay, Well, 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:26.280 you know what podcasts this is. You've been listening, presumably 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:28.480 for months, or this is your first time listening. If so, 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:32.520 I've probably lost you already with that Bush League introduction. 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:35.400 Jesus Christ. Um, I'm Robert Evans. This is a show 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:38.120 about how things fall apart and how to maybe stop 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.920 them from falling apart as much. And today we're talking 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:44.000 to some people who were in kind of the best 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:49.520 case scenario situation for having a bunch of authoritarians try 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:53.920 to uh dominate your country, by which I mean we're 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:57.840 talking to some Chilean activists who who who won um, 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:00.080 And as much as it's it's possible to win in 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:04.920 the world, UM, it's a pretty exciting situation. UM, happening there. 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:06.960 I'm excited to introduce people to like what's been going on. 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:10.400 But first I want to introduce our guests for today. UM, 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:15.440 y'all wanna you'll wanna say hello hello. My name is 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:18.880 Jeremiah I'm from the United States. I've lived in Chile 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:25.800 for the last ten years, and I'm Stephanie Ahead. I'm 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:31.959 a Chillian and I'm leaving here with with my my husband. Hi. 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:35.560 I'm Nicholas. I'm too and I have been living here 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:40.280 for my whole life. Yeah. So we started a small 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:45.760 group called Nitos to do some activism to try to 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:50.240 get out to vote for the Pleglcito, to try to 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:57.040 UH last year to get the constitution approved to be 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:01.880 voted on, and and it successful. So we are proud 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:03.840 of the small bit of work that we did to 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.559 help that happen. And so today the constitution is being 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:11.400 written and it's a very exciting time. Yeah. And I 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:13.160 want to let's pull back a little bit because the 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:16.240 last time we we talked about UM Chile on behind 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.400 the Bastards in two thousand nineteen, when UM a protest 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:21.440 that started as some i think it's fair to say 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:25.760 zoomers protesting a fair increase by like jumping fares at 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:29.760 the at the underground the subway. UM was met with 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:34.200 police doing police stuff, which was met with people taking 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:36.760 to the streets and very significant numbers, which is the 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:39.720 thing that by now a lot more people are experienced with. 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:42.920 But unlike kind of what happened in my country, you 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:45.280 did it. You made him blink, and and that's what 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:47.760 the plebiscite is, right, like the there was an agreement 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:50.640 made to give because Chile was still, if I'm not mistaken, 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:56.919 governed under the same constitution that that Pinochet had had, right. Um, 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:04.079 and Pinochet famously not a great guy. UM, So I 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:05.880 wonder if you might give us kind of an overview 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:09.120 of y'all's experience during that time, from like the start 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:12.440 of the protests to oh ship we might actually get 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:16.600 to change things at a pretty fundamental level in our country. UM. Yeah. 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:20.560 So it was incredible time, about exactly two years ago. 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:25.480 So just the of October was just a two year anniversary. 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:30.560 And um, as you said, it all started with um 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:35.960 literal high schoolers, sixteen year olds who are protesting a 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:42.320 thirty paso increase, which is, you know, like increase in 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.200 the metro. But we of course have one of the 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:48.360 most expensive metros in the world and a very low, 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:53.720 um uh minimum wage here. And so as you said, 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:58.080 they went out there and started to jump the turnstiles, 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:00.760 but in massive groups, hundreds of them going to the 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:08.480 metro together and all jumping together, and in response, the 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:13.440 government ended up closing the metros. And so it was 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:17.600 this Friday night, UM, and we were having dinner and 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:21.000 UH suddenly the metros were all closed and everyone had 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:24.240 to just walk home from work or dinner or where 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:27.160 they were. And that was kind of the beginning of everything. 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:30.719 And it was almost like the government brought it on themselves, 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:33.800 because suddenly there were thousands of people in the streets 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:36.200 just because they had no other way to get home. 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:43.680 And from there, UH, they there were protests, and the 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:49.440 protests were met with extreme police oppression and water cannons 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:54.880 and tear gas and all of that, and UM. Eventually 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.800 it led to one March, which had over a million 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:03.919 people throughout Chile marching, and UM a series of marches 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:09.320 and protests basically every week for months. UM and finally 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:14.120 UH it came down to UH. They announced that there 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:16.680 would be this Plebilist site and it was a vote 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:22.919 yes or no to create a new constitution, because yes, 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:27.560 Chile is still There were some reforms in the early 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:32.479 two thousands to the constitution, but UM still we live 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:36.800 under the constitution written by Jaime Gustman UM kind of 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:41.840 you know, CH's right hand man, and we happen to live. 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:44.800 Nico is our good friend and also our next door neighbor, 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:48.840 and we live about four blocks from the Plaza Um 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:54.760 formerly Plaza Italia. Now the protesters have deemed it Plaza Dignidad, 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:59.000 and so we've been just in the middle of it 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:02.239 and for or for a couple of months are our 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:05.840 whole neighborhood was like a war zone and uh, just 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:10.400 really crazy protests every single day and and tear gas 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:14.120 and all of that, and it was it was really 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:17.400 intense for a while, and uh it still is. You know. 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:22.760 Um last Friday, uh we you know, were met with 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:26.560 tear gas and water cannons again. So it's it's it's 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:32.039 even though the kind the constitution is being written again 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:35.479 and the pledgliscite was a year ago, but the police 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:42.000 are still out there being bastards. Yeah, I'm curious what 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:44.120 each of you kind of sees as the moment when 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:47.160 or if you because maybe I was going too optimistic, 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:49.880 right like I guess I'm wondering, do you think that 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:53.200 a corner has been turned and and if so, what 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:55.200 was kind of the moment each of you felt like, 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:57.440 oh my God, we might Actually, this isn't just gonna 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:00.120 be like showing up to get the ship kicked out 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.440 of us. We're going to get somewhat least of what 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:06.840 we're fighting for. Wait technically, yeah, I mean I think 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:12.440 that like that particular moment was when we finally went 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:16.560 to the elections to who you call the referendum for 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:21.560 the for this new constitution, and we were kind of 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:25.960 skeptic about the the percentage of people who approved this 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:32.480 new constitution because a few months ago or a few 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:37.480 weeks before this referendum, we have like continuing quests polls. 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:40.440 We had the polls and they were kind of fifty. 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.960 So we're kind of skeptic about are we gonna have 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:47.480 a new constitution or not. And that the same night, 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:50.560 I mean, the process very quick, so after I know, 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:54.760 the this thing close at six pm and then you 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:57.640 have the results like three hours later. So on the 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:01.200 same day we're having the the results on it was 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:05.520 like eighty I guess twenty, So it was like kind 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:08.800 of shocking. I mean, we I think that nobody was 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:13.360 expecting to have this kind of percent of the people 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:17.360 until they were I went to throw to the being 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:20.920 the you know, tech Constitution, So it was kind of like, 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:25.080 I don't know out say that the best moment. Yeah, 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:31.640 there's this. There's an American, a deceased American UM sociologist 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:33.840 who who wrote an essay that I find quite influential 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:37.199 called The Shock of Victory, and it's about how activists 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:41.520 often failed to take advantage of of their momentum, like 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:44.319 because they're kind of surprised at the success early on, 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:47.160 and then they don't properly take advantage of what they 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:49.480 have when they have it, and and you know, progress 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:51.600 gets turned back, which I think we've seen happen in 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:54.840 the United States in the wake of of what happened 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:58.520 here last summer. Why do you think that that hasn't 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:01.600 happened in Chile? What do think it is that that 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:05.080 that enabled um, you you all to actually keep the 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:08.160 pressure on and and take advantage of that that moment 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:11.200 in time, which which never I guess that's what I'm 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:13.000 impressed with the most, is that you you' all did 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:16.080 manage to to make that momentum work for you rather 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:18.440 than kind of letting it pull you off balance. And 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:20.160 I guess I'm just trying to get a handle on 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:24.640 on how UM I guess for me, what I think 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:28.640 it's lost a lot in the conversation is UM the 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:34.280 premier linear, so the first line of defense. And so 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:38.760 you have UM a bunch of young people, anarchists, you know, 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:42.400 just crazy young people who went out there to fight 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:46.880 with the cops every single day, and it was really 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:51.120 impressive and a lot of times we uh, I don't know, 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:53.000 I feel like they don't get the credit they deserve 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:56.679 because you know, they're the delnents and that you know, 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:00.480 we talk a lot about the big march is when 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:04.119 there was a million people in the street and and obviously, 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:09.360 like Nico said, winning the vote by scent showed that 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:14.440 it was something that everyone in Chile wanted. But it 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:18.040 never would have happened if it weren't for the this 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:23.880 small group of of fighters who were there every single day, 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:28.800 facing tear gas and water cannons and police beating them 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:32.960 up with you know, throwing rocks and stuff like that. 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:36.880 So I think that's the main thing. It wasn't like 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:39.320 once a month or even once a week, it was 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:42.959 every single day and they were there on the front line, 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:46.640 and it none of this would be possible without them. 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:50.319 That's fascinating to me because obviously things like that, groups 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:53.559 like that existed here, like in Portland's Win every night 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:56.000 for not as long, but for not an insignificant amount 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:57.720 of time, and it was those same It was a 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.839 lot of these kind of young anarchists front liners who 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:02.439 were willing to go toe to the toe with the 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:05.560 cops every night. But you didn't have you didn't have 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:09.400 that kind of larger, more moderate populace backing them up. 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:11.000 And I guess one of the things I'm curious about 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:13.079 is what was kind of the you mentioned you don't 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:15.760 think they get the credit they deserve. Was there a 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:19.120 broad attitude that, like, these people are the ones going 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:21.360 face to face with the cops, so that those of us, 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:23.120 you know, people who are older, people who aren't and 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:24.920 it is going to ship people who can't physically take 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:27.679 as much abuse can still show up or was it? 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:32.280 I'm kind of curious how how those people represented what 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:34.240 they were doing and how it how it was seen 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:36.520 by most of kind of the more moderate people who 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:40.920 still supported change around you, because that that dynamic exists 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:44.040 in any mass protest movement, and I'm it worked where 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:45.520 you are, and I'm trying to get a handle on 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:48.640 maybe how it was different than what I saw in Portland. 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:52.240 Uh so now a lot of them are in yo 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:58.560 and um or without one eye, so is uh it's 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:04.400 really terrible because else we have all these new beautiful 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:14.600 process but we are without really completely democracy with liberty 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:18.679 with the for this guy or or democracy for all 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:28.840 this um person that loose eyes or uh yeah and 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:32.760 everyone that was injured. Um So, yeah, a lot of 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:35.559 protests nowadays. Actually I think today right now there's a 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:42.520 protest going on to free the political prisoners um and uh. 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:47.920 But yeah, I mean I think they're even among you know, 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:52.600 obviously of the country voted for the new constitution, so 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.720 there's a lot of different points of view there. But 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.800 but yeah, there was division even among the left. A 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.120 lot of people said, you know, this is not the 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:04.280 form of this is not the way to protest, and 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:07.680 we should not be violent and you know, burning things 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:11.319 and um. But but there was a lot, I mean, 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:15.000 you saw a lot of the opposite where people were saying, 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:17.920 just as you said, like those out there on the 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:21.520 front line are the reason that the older people and 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:25.280 others can come out and feel safer to protest because 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:29.440 the primary linea is kind of taking the brunt of 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:35.840 the violence from the police, and that allows the older 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:39.920 people and those who are are less confrontational to be 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:42.760 out there in protests. So for me, some of some 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:45.960 of the most inspiring signs I remember seeing are like 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:50.160 folks that are eighty years old and they have signs 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:52.920 that say, you know, Gracia sala primary LINEA. You know, 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:57.360 like thank you to the front liners who who are 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:01.240 taking that violence so that they are ball the others 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:05.160 to to protest in a more peaceful way. That's such 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:07.960 a fascinating situation to me that you've got You've got 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:10.679 these these more radical frontliners who were, as you say, 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:16.240 critical in allowing this, this really groundbreaking change to occur 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:18.080 in your society. But at the same time, things haven't 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:20.560 changed enough that number one, the cops will beat the 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:23.600 ship out of them, I'm guessing are still largely employed, 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:26.440 um and and a bunch of them are in jail. 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.800 I'm do you have much hope that at the very 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:32.280 least there will be something to like get these people 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:36.160 out or is it is that maybe a bridge. I 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:38.720 don't know, I don't know your country obviously, Well, you know, 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:41.560 I'm curious, like, do you feel like there's much hope 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:43.880 in pushing for that because it seems like, you know, 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:48.160 those people need to be free. Yeah. I mean most 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:50.920 of these guys who are in prison and they have 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:53.760 spent like, oh no, like twelve months in prison without 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:58.200 any evidence, so yeah, all the world of the cops, 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:01.880 I guess them. So after I know, like thirteen months 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:04.640 for ten months, they will finally get released because they 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:08.320 have they have no evidence, or they could they may 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:10.760 find that the police they made up all the evidence, 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:16.600 so they they finally go out. But I mean, you 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:20.240 spend like almost a year in prison, that's me. It's 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:24.320 clearly like political. I mean you're a political prisoner, like 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:26.760 they got They got you in prison with no evidence, 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:30.840 without any profit process. They keep you in prison for 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:33.800 a year, and who's gonna pay for that? I mean 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:48.280 you lost a year. Yeah, we're talking so far about 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:51.720 the sacrifices made here. What do you think with this 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:54.880 new constitution, you and your your your fellow Chileans, what 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:57.040 are you gonna get? Like? How what are the changes 0:15:57.120 --> 0:15:59.520 that are seemed to be most concrete and the ones 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:03.360 that you think are most important? Um? I think already 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:09.240 it's been groundbreaking. I believe it's the only constitution ever 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:15.520 to be written by a plurality of women and and 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:21.360 also to have a representation from the indigenous peoples. And 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:27.280 uh so it's already been very um inspiring and groundbreaking. Um. 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:32.760 The President of the Constitutional Convention is a very inspiring 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:40.800 um Mapuche leader woman UM. And the good thing is 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:48.560 that the right um it represents less than one third 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:52.200 of the Constitutional Convention, so they don't have the power 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:58.360 to block um anything uh as far as only by 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:02.240 the right, so we will see. But they literally just 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:05.400 started writing the constitution last week. So yeah, yeah, it's 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:09.760 still but that's I mean, that's that's a significant Is 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:12.520 there a kind of a broad agreement that one of 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:14.760 the things that needed to happen here was a redress 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:18.760 of grievances between the indigenous people um and the and 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:22.920 the state, Because it sounds like that's a significant chunk 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:25.600 of what's what's been already agreed upon. Just but like 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:29.480 how this is coming together? Yeah, so uh well, Nicok 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:32.240 probably tell a lot more about this than I could. 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:37.240 But um, there's a big deal with the Uniteds with 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:43.000 the indigenous people in the South and the government um 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:48.240 basically waging war against the indigenous people. Actually, uh, two 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:54.160 weeks ago Niera, the current right wing president um declared 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:56.159 a state of emergency in the south and he just 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:58.840 extended it for fifteen more days. So we have the 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:03.840 military and the out um and they are you know, 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:09.480 with the tanks and attaching attacking the the Mapuche and 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:14.119 other indigenous people there. And uh so yeah, a big 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:19.680 aspect of Chile right now is the the the fight 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:23.240 between and and the oppression of the government against the 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:26.520 native people. And and it's a cultural thing too. I 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:30.159 mean it's it's really heavy everyone. Most people here in 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:36.520 Chile are are mixed, you know, between the the natives 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:40.280 and and the white men and everything, and you know 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:45.119 the Europeans um, but the Mapuche and the other indigenous 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:49.240 groups have really not um received a lot of respect 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:54.479 in the last thirty years. And and so yeah, that's 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:59.560 a big aspect. Yeah. For me, it's very inspiring to 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:02.040 have like the pressing of this new constitution to be 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:08.720 uh I'm a bit woman, so um yeah, I mean 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:13.840 I guess that the most important thing, like the thing 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:17.760 that this indigenous people want to claim is their land. 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:20.040 I mean land for them is the most important thing. 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:23.360 And that's what the government only for the last three 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:27.480 hundred years they have been taken from to them. Um. 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.280 They are now like trying to claim again their their 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:34.880 their space. So I mean, let's go that this new 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:38.360 constitution will bring them back their land, um, the respect 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:41.480 that they deserve. Now, there's been a lot of discussion 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:44.320 about this, this new constitution as I think the term 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:49.080 used as an ecological constitution, um, and it's it's the 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:52.000 necessity of it addressing a lot of the climate, not 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:53.720 just climate change, but like a lot of the things 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:58.159 caused by climate change, like unequal access to water. Um. 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:02.760 There's been discussion asio costa of of the f I 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:06.199 m A and GEO has has is arguing currently that 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:09.000 the Constitution needs to enshrine a human right to water 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:12.160 and recognize it as a common good. Um. It's obviously 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:14.040 again they're writing it this week, so it's kind of 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:17.720 unclear if that's going to happen. UM. But I'm I'm 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:20.160 wondering kind of what you what y'all think it's actually 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:23.600 because as you've talked about, you know, with the protests ongoing, 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:26.360 with the military being deployed in the South, this is 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:29.439 not a finished fight. Um, it's just a fight that 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:31.560 a lot of progress has been made on what do 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.879 you think is reasonable to expect from this new constitution 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:37.439 in terms of of of climate change, in terms of 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:42.600 ecological justice. Also, I think the right of the of water. 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:48.280 So water is privatized here, so Chileans here in Santiago, 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:55.240 we have to pay a Spanish company too for our water. Sure. Um, 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:58.080 I would say, like the economy in this country is 0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:02.720 based on like structivism, So you have like the most 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:05.200 productive things mining, and then you have like the forestry 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:09.159 and all these things, like they have an enormous impact 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:12.560 on the environment and the people until I mean the 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:16.960 people who live right next to these kind of things, 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:21.719 they don't get anything from them. I mean, the poorest 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:25.320 places are like right next to the forest trees, rightness 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:29.560 to the mining. So it's kind of like we're creating 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:33.119 a lot of income from these things, but we're not 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:36.680 getting anything from them and all. I mean Also, it's 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:39.320 not like a thing like let's get everything back to 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:42.840 the state, I mean to the state, because it's it's 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:51.160 more than that. It's just like like um, ecological equality, equity. Yeah, yeah, 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:53.560 it's not saying we should take all of the private 0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:55.280 water and give it to the state as much as 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:57.760 it's saying everyone who lives here has a has a 0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:01.879 personal right to enough water to survive life. Yeah, so 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:06.120 you have rounds where small little towns and uh, they 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:08.720 don't have any water to drink because all of their 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:12.600 water is to the going to the farm owned by 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:17.720 Nessley to make, you know, to grow avocados to sell 0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:22.200 to Europe and the United States. So, um, yeah, it's 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:27.760 it's uh, it's it's a pretty crazy thing. One of 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:30.320 the things that's most interesting to me about your situation 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:34.639 is you you are in a place where not entirely 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:37.240 similar dissimilar from the United States, you have a police 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:40.360 in a military that are heavily dominated by by right 0:22:40.359 --> 0:22:44.840 wing ideology. Obviously, like the United States is partly responsible 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:47.000 for that in your case, we we funded it for 0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:52.360 a very long time. Um and uh. And so it's 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:56.120 still an ongoing fight. But at the same time, clearly 0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:59.600 the people are unhappy enough with that situation and hold 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:02.800 like that they were able to make. They were able 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:06.560 to force the folks with with guns to um to 0:23:06.640 --> 0:23:10.639 recognize that they can't hold on to everything that they 0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:15.320 wanted to hold onto. And I I guess I'm what 0:23:16.200 --> 0:23:21.800 how can we do that? Um, I'm I'm very impressed 0:23:21.840 --> 0:23:24.399 by like, and you know, watching from the sidelines, I 0:23:24.480 --> 0:23:28.240 was just so happy to see this not go where 0:23:28.240 --> 0:23:30.240 I think we were all scared it might go, you know, 0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:33.120 in either the direction with like Syria, where it turns 0:23:33.119 --> 0:23:36.440 into this horrible blood bath, or where everything gets crushed, 0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:39.320 you know it. And and I I'm wondering, like why 0:23:39.400 --> 0:23:42.760 you think on a on a broader scale, what do 0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:47.679 you think was responsible for those people with access to 0:23:47.720 --> 0:23:51.760 the guns deciding we can't hold onto this. Like, Yeah, 0:23:51.840 --> 0:23:55.640 I'm just I'm so intensely curious about that because it's 0:23:55.680 --> 0:23:57.520 it's it's important for a lot of people and a 0:23:57.520 --> 0:24:00.600 lot of other parts of the world. Yeah, I don't know. 0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:03.040 I mean I think it was just the protests and 0:24:03.080 --> 0:24:07.440 the daily protests and and just getting out there, keeping 0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:11.000 the pressure on. And at some point, you know, it's like, hey, 0:24:11.080 --> 0:24:13.600 this is not good for the economy, you know, like 0:24:13.880 --> 0:24:17.639 so all of the rich people, um, and you know, 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:21.560 the ten families that are in control of you know, 0:24:22.119 --> 0:24:26.800 sixty or seventy percent of the wealth of the country. Yeah, 0:24:26.960 --> 0:24:32.480 and they at some point had to recognize that this 0:24:32.640 --> 0:24:36.040 was something that that you know, had reached its boiling 0:24:36.080 --> 0:24:40.000 point and and they could no longer respond with just 0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:42.959 force because they tried it and it didn't work for 0:24:43.040 --> 0:24:46.680 months and it was just months and months of protests 0:24:47.080 --> 0:24:51.960 and um and uh. And obviously that caused a hit 0:24:52.000 --> 0:24:54.760 to the economy and that caused a hit to the 0:24:54.760 --> 0:24:59.000 wallets of of the ultra rich. And so at some 0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:03.320 point they they realized that they had no other move 0:25:03.400 --> 0:25:07.800 to play than to accept it in some way and uh, 0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:11.199 and that's how we got, you know, this new constitution 0:25:11.240 --> 0:25:25.440 that is being written. One thing I was interested about 0:25:25.720 --> 0:25:28.840 is the geography of the protest because I know Chili 0:25:30.119 --> 0:25:32.439 very urban population. And also it was is it like 0:25:32.480 --> 0:25:34.520 it's like a quarter of the population or something lives 0:25:34.520 --> 0:25:43.000 in Santiago, like in in that area, And I'm yeah, 0:25:41.800 --> 0:25:45.080 so sorry. I just want to note, if I'm not mistaken, 0:25:45.080 --> 0:25:48.280 there were only five. You have kind of communes instead 0:25:48.320 --> 0:25:51.760 of states, is what they're called. Um, like ten voted 0:25:51.800 --> 0:25:54.159 in favor of the referendum and only five voted against it. 0:25:54.200 --> 0:25:58.080 If I'm not mistaken, Well, communes are within cities like 0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:04.159 different It's like Burroughs in New York, but we have 0:26:04.280 --> 0:26:09.680 different regions instead of states. And um, and I think 0:26:09.720 --> 0:26:14.400 they all voted. They might be like seven. But when 0:26:14.480 --> 0:26:18.480