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Speaker 1: What do you do in life doesn't go according to

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Speaker 1: plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one,

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Speaker 1: or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this

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Speaker 1: is now What, a podcast about pivotal moments as told

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Speaker 1: by people who lived them. Each week, I sit down

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Speaker 1: with a guest to talk about the times they were

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Speaker 1: knocked off course and what they did to move forward.

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Speaker 1: Some stories are funny, others are cut wrenching, but all

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Speaker 1: are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and

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Speaker 1: every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice

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Speaker 1: answers one question, now what. I'm fascinated by your archery.

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Speaker 1: I'm just talking to me about how that happens. Just

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Speaker 1: we I love this so well. When I got cast

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Speaker 1: in the league of their own, I had to learn

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Speaker 1: how to play baseball and I started really picking it

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Speaker 1: up and and they started saying, you know, you have

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Speaker 1: a lot of untapped athletic ability, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: it took me to thirty six to find this out.

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Speaker 1: And I thought, you know, I want I wonder if

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Speaker 1: I would be good in real life in a sport,

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Speaker 1: because in a movie that you know, if you can't

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Speaker 1: do it they'll make it happen anyway. And uh, I

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Speaker 1: was watching the Olympics in nineties and on TV, and

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of coverage of archery, and I thought, wow,

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Speaker 1: archery is very beautiful and it's very dramatic. I wonder

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Speaker 1: if I could be good at that. My guest today

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Speaker 1: is the incredible Gina Davis. We met years ago through

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Speaker 1: a dear friend. I remember being struck by our humor

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Speaker 1: and her intelligence, her amazing intelligence, and her kindness. Those

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Speaker 1: are qualities that she maintains to this day. Like many

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Speaker 1: of you, I'm also a huge fan of her work.

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Speaker 1: I can't count the number of times I've watched Fellman Louise.

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Speaker 1: When I closed my eyes, I can still see Gina

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Speaker 1: in that blue convertible, hand in hand with Susan Sarandon,

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Speaker 1: flying free into the air like a true rebel. And

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Speaker 1: this many years later, Gina is still a certified badass.

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Speaker 1: She is an Oscar Award winning actor, an activist for

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Speaker 1: equal representation on screen, a fellow tall girl, and now

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Speaker 1: the author of the hilarious and very poignant new book

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Speaker 1: Dying of Politeness. We sat down to talk about her

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Speaker 1: incredible journey and everything she's learned along the way. So

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Speaker 1: Gina Davis Um trying to think of when we first

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Speaker 1: really kind of got to hang out, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: my memories are more sort of like first line of

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Speaker 1: a book. All those parties we would we would have

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Speaker 1: with Gavin and Garrison Is Harry Sheer and all those guys.

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Speaker 1: I was a fan then and maintain a huge amount

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Speaker 1: of respect for you. Thank you. So I have to

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Speaker 1: say that I always ask people when when we come on,

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Speaker 1: because I know everybody sort of in from some period

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Speaker 1: of time in my life. But I always am curious

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Speaker 1: as to, like, if you were to try to describe yourself,

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Speaker 1: like what words would you use to sort of encapsulate

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Speaker 1: who you are? Brother? Well, happy, I could definitely say

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Speaker 1: I'm happy in a great place in my life. I'm

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Speaker 1: still you know, a passionate you know about about things

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Speaker 1: about about acting and uh, and I found a new

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Speaker 1: passion writing this book. Did you feel like that you

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Speaker 1: wrote you I can't wait to write another one. I

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Speaker 1: really enjoy it. I really can't. I enjoyed it tremendously. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and actually penning it yourself, you know, without a ghostwriter.

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Speaker 1: I think it's just a very different part of your brain,

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Speaker 1: you know. But there's something unbelievable about it. What did

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Speaker 1: you like the most about it? Well, that I could

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Speaker 1: actually make myself do it, you know, because you know

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Speaker 1: I'm a terrible procrastinator and chef. But like you, I

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Speaker 1: found it really enjoyable to do what made you? And

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Speaker 1: you said you wanted to be an actor ever since

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Speaker 1: you were really three. That's when my mom snuck into

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Speaker 1: her first moving picture was when she was three years old.

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Speaker 1: She told a lady at the ticket thing, this isn't

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Speaker 1: like the late thirties, She said, my mommy's in there.

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Speaker 1: She stayed there all day long and the police had

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Speaker 1: to come and get her because she was escaping into

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Speaker 1: the movies. No way. That is incredible. Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: But did you ever consider pursuing anything else or were

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Speaker 1: you just focused? That was it? That was it. I

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Speaker 1: just was fixated on that and very comfortable, not stressed

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Speaker 1: about it at all. This is what I'm going to be.

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Speaker 1: That's what I'm gonna do. Did you have favorite icons

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Speaker 1: or actresses when you were growing up? I mean not really. No.

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Speaker 1: We we never almost never went to the movies unless

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Speaker 1: it was a Disney movie. I mean we watched old

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Speaker 1: movies on TV, but there wasn't anybody who made me say, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's the exact person I want to be, Like. It

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Speaker 1: was just the world of film, and it's just the

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Speaker 1: world of it, you know. I think I was so

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Speaker 1: self conscious and afraid to you know, I don't know

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Speaker 1: you were terribly bothered by being tall when you were

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Speaker 1: a kid with people treat you differently, or did you

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Speaker 1: feel like you had to be smaller or well, you know,

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Speaker 1: it was interesting. My dad was six seven and he

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Speaker 1: always slouched and my mom would put tape between my

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Speaker 1: shoulders so that if I slouched, the tape with like

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Speaker 1: stick and so I would have to Like, I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to slouch because I didn't want it to stick.

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Speaker 1: And she was like, shoulders back, headheld high. Nobody likes

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Speaker 1: to see a stooping, you know, female. And because I

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Speaker 1: modeled from quite a young age, it was an acceptable height.

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Speaker 1: What I was struggled with was that with that height

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Speaker 1: came I was the athletic one, you know. I was

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Speaker 1: never model skinny or that. So that was my sort

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Speaker 1: of issue. But you say you were insecure, so it

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Speaker 1: was in school you were always tall. Yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: the tallest from kindergarten on, like way tall and it

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Speaker 1: made you insecure. Yeah, it did. But it's funny you

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Speaker 1: said that about your mother, because my mother always made

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Speaker 1: sure I didn't slout. She didn't come up with a

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Speaker 1: very interesting technique. A brutal child abused, but she always

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Speaker 1: said you have to stand up straight. And interestingly, she

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Speaker 1: never said, like your mother, you have to be proud.

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Speaker 1: Probably it was because it was rude to slouch your shoulder,

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Speaker 1: but she just started, I shouldn't do that. So then

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Speaker 1: I found ways to twist my hips, you know, to

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Speaker 1: be shorter, or you know, pitching on furniture and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that seem shorter. I just did that last week.

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Speaker 1: I was taking a picture with this guy and it

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Speaker 1: was a bunch of us and he said, did you

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Speaker 1: just louch? And I went yeah. He said, oh no,

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Speaker 1: that fells girls do not. What is wrong with you?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, it's just my body went right

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Speaker 1: into it again, you know, the shoulder down, the hip

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Speaker 1: out right, you know. And I was like, well, because I,

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Speaker 1: as a female, I kind of always wanted to be

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Speaker 1: under a guy's shoulder rather than over it, you know.

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Speaker 1: And my first husband hated when I wore heels, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, but my legs looked better with heels,

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Speaker 1: and I realized it was all about him. He just didn't,

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Speaker 1: you know, it emasculated him evidently that that I, you know,

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Speaker 1: that I was tall and I don't know. So it's

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Speaker 1: such a crazy thing, but I call this podcast now

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Speaker 1: what you know? There are now moments in our lives,

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Speaker 1: and I'm curious as to what are some of the

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Speaker 1: first real now what moments that you experienced at any age?

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Speaker 1: You know. I think one of my earlier ones was

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Speaker 1: my church had a youth group and I enjoyed it.

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Speaker 1: I liked going and uh and all that. I was

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Speaker 1: probably in tenth grade, but I had never had a

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Speaker 1: boyfriend or anything like that. And uh. I was talking

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Speaker 1: to the pastor who led the youth group privately one day.

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Speaker 1: I said, why do you think that nobody asked, asked me.

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Speaker 1: I don't nobody interested being, you know, my boyfriend or anything.

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Speaker 1: And we were outside it was very quiet, and I

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Speaker 1: was very contemplative, and he said, why don't you try

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Speaker 1: being more like you are now? More? Just kind of quiet? God,

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Speaker 1: And this is he saying this to an incredibly shy

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Speaker 1: person once in a while, bursts out of her shill.

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Speaker 1: But how did you internalize that? Like, what's that message

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Speaker 1: in your brain that made me hopeless? That just made

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Speaker 1: me feel like am I going to accomplish that? And

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Speaker 1: what a a sad goal? I mean, I didn't realize

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Speaker 1: at that time what a sad goal that was. Were

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Speaker 1: there any people or experiences that counteracted that negativity? Well,

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Speaker 1: my dad and my mom really, but they both thought

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Speaker 1: I could do anything. And my mom's most famous phrase

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Speaker 1: that I remember was but you can't, Oh, never mind,

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Speaker 1: You're gonna do it anyway, whatever it was, whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: I'd come up with that I wanted to do or

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Speaker 1: make or build or whatever. And my dad was always

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Speaker 1: from when I was very little, you know, if he

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Speaker 1: was painting the house, I was painting the house and

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Speaker 1: fixing the car. So I wasn't shy about can I

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Speaker 1: do things? For some reason, it was very confident that

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Speaker 1: I could do things. It was more in interpersonal relationships

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Speaker 1: that I was shy. This next question is a difficult

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Speaker 1: one for me to ask. I think that it just

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Speaker 1: might be tough for some of our listeners to hear

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Speaker 1: as well. But there is a moment in your book, um,

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Speaker 1: that you talk about and it just really struck a

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Speaker 1: chord with me, probably because I have two daughters. Um,

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Speaker 1: but there's a moment in your book when you discussed

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Speaker 1: the idea that you realized in hindsight that you were

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Speaker 1: sexually abused by a neighbor when you were young. Right,

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Speaker 1: I told my mother this behavior he was doing that

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Speaker 1: I didn't understand because I didn't know there were parts

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Speaker 1: of my body were not to be touched. And how

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Speaker 1: old were you? Ten? Ten? And you had a paper route? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my mom, you know, talk to him and and and

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Speaker 1: said I could never go inside his house again, just

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Speaker 1: leave the paper down at the bottom and and all that.

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Speaker 1: But shouldn't be explain this is what happened. This is

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Speaker 1: why it's bad. I just knew there's something horrible had happened.

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Speaker 1: Then I was sure whether I was responsible for or not.

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Speaker 1: But did you have a shame around it? Like yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like it's something I should have done to prevent whatever

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Speaker 1: this was. So, yeah, I was probably an adult by

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Speaker 1: the time I realized what had happened, and nobody called

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Speaker 1: Did anybody call the police? I mean, I guess And

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Speaker 1: you didn't do it then, right, that wasn't what you did.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that going forward, any of the roles

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Speaker 1: you played helped helped you process that that experience by

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Speaker 1: most of the roles you play and the characters are

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Speaker 1: there's a sense of real powerment in them. Yes, I

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Speaker 1: you know, here's my theory about all this is that

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Speaker 1: I was faking being I was acting being powerful and

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Speaker 1: strong and decisive and and all that stuff, and the

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Speaker 1: process of acting it kind of gives you an opportunity

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Speaker 1: to practice in a way. And so so I think

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Speaker 1: I was able to embody, you know, some of the

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Speaker 1: things my characters didn't standing up for myself or whatever,

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Speaker 1: because I played a character that had those qualities. I

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Speaker 1: think a lot had to do with the essence of

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Speaker 1: your I mean, your early days as an actor. Are

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Speaker 1: there moments that stick out that you're the most proud

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Speaker 1: of or those you just cringe at? Well, TUTSI was

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Speaker 1: my first movie, my first audition, even the first and

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Speaker 1: you get it and come on and when we're daring

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Speaker 1: to by Sydney Pology opposite starring dustn't happen. Uh. I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to ask any questions. I was very worried

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Speaker 1: that they would think she doesn't know where to stand

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Speaker 1: or what to do. And I was sure that there

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Speaker 1: was something called movie acting that I hadn't learned and

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Speaker 1: I'd be found out as a fake. But I didn't

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Speaker 1: know that you only come on the days when you shoot.

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Speaker 1: I read that. I died laughing. So cute, I know,

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Speaker 1: and nobody told me. I guess they didn't realize, you know,

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Speaker 1: how really naive I was or anything. I just assumed

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Speaker 1: everybody comes every day. You show up out every day

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Speaker 1: every day at six am. There I was some days

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Speaker 1: and you weren't getting into hair and makeup? Did that? No? No, no,

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Speaker 1: flew you in at all? No? No, I thought. I

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Speaker 1: didn't think I was had to be there to act.

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Speaker 1: I thought just as a member of this you know,

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Speaker 1: collective thing that I But but why didn't noticed that

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Speaker 1: Jessica Land wasn't hanging around on the issues. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of a theater mentality. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: you are a company. The company shows up. It's very

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Speaker 1: different in film and TV and and all of that. Um,

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Speaker 1: but that's such a sweet, sweet thing. When I read that,

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh God, she's just showing up to

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Speaker 1: work every single day for four months or three months

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Speaker 1: or whatever. But you know what, and hindsight, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: that was the best. It was like a masterclass, was

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Speaker 1: it really was. I mean, Sydney Pollock was an extraordinary director,

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Speaker 1: and uh and Dustin Hoppin. And the really really fortunate

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Speaker 1: thing for me was that they both from the beginning

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Speaker 1: treated me like a peer because I was a model

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Speaker 1: doing a change in my underweard, you know, and it

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Speaker 1: took me very very seriously, and uh, that really made

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Speaker 1: such an impression on me. It really. Did they give

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Speaker 1: you any advice? Oh god, Yeah, Dustin was giving me

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Speaker 1: advice constantly. We're just thrilling because he clearly thought that

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Speaker 1: I was going to have a career, because you know,

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Speaker 1: because he give me very sophisticated advice, um, you know

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Speaker 1: about optioning books and things like that, and he doesn't

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Speaker 1: wanted to also make sure that I didn't get preyed

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Speaker 1: upon by people. And he a bit of his advice

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Speaker 1: was to never never sleep with your co stars because

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Speaker 1: it's just it's just a bad idea, makes everything messy.

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Speaker 1: It's just a bad idea. So here's what you say

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Speaker 1: when that comes up. You say, oh, I would love

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Speaker 1: to You're very attractive, but I'm afraid that it would

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Speaker 1: ruin the sexual tension between us. As a way to

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Speaker 1: get out of it, and then I had to use

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Speaker 1: it somebody later, did you for the most part in

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Speaker 1: your career, he'd his advice or yeah, yeah, yeah, she

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Speaker 1: slipped every now and then. No, no, that's good on

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Speaker 1: Blue Lago. And they were desperate for us to fall

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Speaker 1: in love, really fall in love, and I was by

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Speaker 1: the end of it. I was like, stay away from me,

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Speaker 1: stay far away from me. We were like brother and sister.

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Speaker 1: You've always been such an advocate for women, but I'm

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Speaker 1: curious about as a woman your experiences in Hollywood. Was

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Speaker 1: there any point, like way before the me too stuff

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Speaker 1: that you kind of said, wait a minute, this isn't behavior.

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Speaker 1: I want to tolerate this is this is wrong? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, definitely definitely. But I you know, I thought,

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Speaker 1: you can't complain about this stuff, or you can't even

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Speaker 1: tell anybody about it, that we'll reflect on you, you know,

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Speaker 1: or something or something like that happened. I had a

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Speaker 1: very very uncomfortable audition for a role with the director.

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Speaker 1: But uh, but I as so well. You never would

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Speaker 1: have heard of him. He was the director of Transylvania

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Speaker 1: six five thousand. I think he hadn't anything since then.

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Speaker 1: But there was a scene in the movie. It's a

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Speaker 1: very very silly movie, and I'm playing a vampire, and uh,

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Speaker 1: there's a scene where I'm trying to seduce Ed Bigley Jr.

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Speaker 1: Because I'm a nymphamaniacal vampire. You understand that. I climb

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Speaker 1: up into his lap and I'm rubbing all over him,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I say something to take me, take me,

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Speaker 1: and I pressed his face into my breasts. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: he's supposed to say something that comes out mumbled, so

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Speaker 1: suffocating it. So this is the scene the director wants

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Speaker 1: to be to audition with and there's nobody else there.

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Speaker 1: And I said, how are we how are we going

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Speaker 1: to do this? How we're gonna act it? You're gonna

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Speaker 1: act it with me? Okay? Uh? And then and then

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Speaker 1: he said, but actually act the scene with me, like

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Speaker 1: sit on my lap, and uh, oh my god, God,

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Speaker 1: well no, no, that's okay, no, no, no, come on, yes,

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Speaker 1: I want to see how you how you acted. And

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Speaker 1: he stuffed his face in my breasts and uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was God that the whole thing is unfathomable to

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Speaker 1: me that how do you I mean, do you walk

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Speaker 1: how do you walk away from that? What do you feel?

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Speaker 1: In that moment? I hit it all and repressed it all.

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Speaker 1: I didn't tell my agent, who would have I'm sure

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Speaker 1: like to know that, but it was just shameful to me.

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Speaker 1: I think it's probably the same thing like with my paperword.

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Speaker 1: I didn't quite know what happened. Again, it's a now

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Speaker 1: what moment, but you're not aware of it. And there's

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Speaker 1: another incident that you talked about, a very troubling encounter

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Speaker 1: with Bill Murray. Did that How did that change your view?

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Speaker 1: That was very, very pivotal in my life? And I

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Speaker 1: realized later I should have I could have. You know,

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Speaker 1: you you can always recriminate yourself, but I should have

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Speaker 1: walked out of the initial meeting rather than actually get

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Speaker 1: the part and go on the set and be treated terribly.

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Speaker 1: But at the meeting, it was in a hotel suite,

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Speaker 1: but there was there was a couple other people that

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Speaker 1: producers or whatever were there, and uh, I went to

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Speaker 1: go sit down with the people who were there, and

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Speaker 1: Bill said, Hey, have you ever heard of the thumper?

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Speaker 1: Have you ever tried the thumper. I'm like, what is that?

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Speaker 1: It's a massage thing? You've ever tried? No? No, we

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Speaker 1: like we would like to try. No, no, thank you,

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Speaker 1: And he kept at it and add it and add it. No,

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Speaker 1: come on, come on try just come here, just come

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Speaker 1: here to the bedroom and try it. And I realized

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Speaker 1: he's not ever going to give up. He was so

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Speaker 1: intent on it, and the other two men were not saying, Bill,

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Speaker 1: come on, you know, drop it. So what I realized, Brooke,

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Speaker 1: is that unless I yelled at him, I wasn't going

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Speaker 1: to get out of doing this. But the other option

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Speaker 1: would have been to leave, you know, but I couldn't

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Speaker 1: manage to do either one. So I I went in

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Speaker 1: the bedroom and I kind of perched on the edge

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Speaker 1: of the bed and he thumped it on my back

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Speaker 1: like literally two seconds, and then didn't ask how was it?

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Speaker 1: Did you like it? Because it wasn't about I want

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Speaker 1: you to try this cool thing. It was about can

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Speaker 1: I make you do what I want to make you do?

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Speaker 1: She's going to be a difficult actress or she going

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Speaker 1: to be malleable? Yes, exactly, And and and I learned

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Speaker 1: later it was because I had just won an oscar.

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Speaker 1: You know, for the supporting actress, and he was concerned

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Speaker 1: that I might think I was all that. Now, that

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Speaker 1: to me is so despicable because there's jealousy, right. I

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Speaker 1: don't think he had won an oscar by then, probably not.

340
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Speaker 1: And you're a woman, was very talented, beautiful, probably taller

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Speaker 1: than he is, So every single thing is an emasculating

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Speaker 1: element to that. And god, it's so it's so crazy,

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Speaker 1: and you talk about him going on. He even brates

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Speaker 1: you in front of everybody about what, what was it?

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Speaker 1: Why it was again? I'm sure in hindsight it was again.

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Speaker 1: Two put me in my place because I saw him

347
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Speaker 1: do it with other people. As the movie went on,

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Speaker 1: he quite frequently would explode at somebody and become very

349
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Speaker 1: vicious and then turn away like almost like you know,

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Speaker 1: well I did that. I got that out of you know,

351
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 1: like that. It was a deliberate tactic. How did you

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Speaker 1: come off of that experience? It was miserable, it was

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Speaker 1: I felt so shamed, and at lunch, just an hour

354
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Speaker 1: or two later, my manager and my agent came to

355
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Speaker 1: take me to lunch, and I didn't tell them because

356
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Speaker 1: I was so ashamed. I mean, in hindsight, oh my God,

357
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Speaker 1: you know, I'll be in my trailer calling my lawyer

358
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Speaker 1: or something, you know. But I guess I must have

359
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Speaker 1: internalized something about it that, oh I really wasn't doing

360
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Speaker 1: the right thing, or he made it so embarrassing and

361
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Speaker 1: so public, you know, in front of a couple of

362
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Speaker 1: hundred people. God, it was just awful. That fear instilling

363
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 1: fear is a sense of power and comidation. You do. Right.

364
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Speaker 1: There's a line that I wrote down where you say

365
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Speaker 1: you didn't know how to avoid being treated that way.

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Speaker 1: That's a really interesting statement because not I didn't know

367
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Speaker 1: how to stop this behavior from happening, but I didn't

368
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Speaker 1: know how to just avoid it. Oh, it's going to happen.

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Speaker 1: It's going to keep happening, and evidently it's okay, right,

370
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Speaker 1: that's fascinating to me. Yes, it is it because it's

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Speaker 1: going to happen all the time. That's the problem. That's

372
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Speaker 1: the problem. There's so many movies that you have been

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Speaker 1: in that have just O God, I've just made such

374
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Speaker 1: a difference, have sort of changed the narrative for women.

375
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Speaker 1: And I did not know that you had not originally

376
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Speaker 1: been cast in Thelman Louise Right, Yeah, Okay, teach, me

377
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Speaker 1: every time. I've gotten all of that movie that they

378
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Speaker 1: just cast so inside and I'm like, but I read

379
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,719
Speaker 1: the book and it's uncorrected proof. How do you know

380
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: what to do in that case? Well, I just was

381
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 1: making it up as I went along, because I read

382
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 1: the script someone had slipped it to me, and I said,

383
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Speaker 1: oh my god, I have to be in this movie.

384
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Speaker 1: My agent said, oh no, it's already been cast. And

385
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Speaker 1: then I kept asking about it, and so he started

386
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Speaker 1: calling Ridley's office. Ridley Scott was going to be just

387
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 1: the producer of that movie at that time, and he

388
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 1: would call Ridley Scott's office once a week every week

389
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 1: and say, you know, if anything happens, Gene is still

390
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: interested if it happens. And then it turned out that

391
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,919
Speaker 1: a couple of months later, whoever that director was and

392
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: whatever that situation was, that all fell apart. And I

393
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: was so obsessed with this movie that I was actually

394
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: meeting with my acting coach to work on it when

395
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 1: it was cast with somebody else, which is just ludicrous.

396
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 1: It's just ridiculous. But I just got in my head

397
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 1: that I had to be in this movie. And I

398
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 1: don't know why I even thought it would ever fall apart.

399
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: I mean, most things profoundly do not fall apart. But anyway,

400
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,719
Speaker 1: so that happened like three times, and then Ridley decided

401
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: he was going to directed himself, and finally I got

402
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 1: to meet with him and try to convince him that

403
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: you absolutely did, but you were active in that process.

404
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 1: I don't know what I was thinking, why I thought

405
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: there was such a good chance that I would actually

406
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 1: end up in the movie. So you get the part?

407
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 1: Did you have to read with Susan or no? I

408
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: got cast first, and I signed a contract that I

409
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 1: would play either part. And because I had told him

410
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 1: that I felt like I could play Louise. And then

411
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: I meet Susan and I'm like, oh my god, what

412
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: was I thinking? I was going to play Louis? Wow?

413
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: And was was she a mentor at all? To you?

414
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 1: Oh my god? Yeah, because it seems crazy, but I

415
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: had never really spent significant time with a woman who

416
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 1: doesn't preface everything she says with I don't know what

417
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 1: you'll think. This is probably really stupid, but I mean

418
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: the first time we so we sit down, the meeting

419
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 1: is so we can sit down and go through the

420
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: script and you know, make comments. Whoever wants to make

421
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 1: a comment or maybe when we've changed this line or whatever.

422
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: So so we sit down and crack opened the script

423
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Speaker 1: and I swear it was on page one that Susan said,

424
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: you know this first line I have, I think we

425
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: should cut it. We don't need that. What do you think?

426
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: He's like, oh yeah, he said, actually right, And I

427
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: was just like, what just happened? What sort of stunned

428
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 1: to watch? Anyway, it was. It was such a lesson

429
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 1: for me, and then the entire shoot was that way.

430
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: I got to observe her every day for three months

431
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 1: and her very cat her convictions of what she wanted

432
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: and how and has always been extraordinarily clear about that

433
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: was acting over the age of forty? What is that like?

434
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 1: And what was that like for you? Um? You know,

435
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: I had heard. I was very well aware that people

436
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: talked about actresses don't get much work after forty, and

437
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 1: I thought, well, I mean that won't be me probably.

438
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: I mean I'm getting all these great parts and and anyway,

439
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: Sally Field and Jessica Lang and Gone Close and Meryl Streep,

440
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: We're all doing these incredible movies, you know, where the

441
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 1: female lead and everything. And I thought, well, that's not

442
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,479
Speaker 1: gonna be true for them either, so they'll fix it

443
00:27:55,520 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: before I get to before and they didn't. And it

444
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: happened to me too. It was it was shocking. It

445
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: was that it now what moment for you? God? Yeah, yeah,

446
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: it really was. I wasn't reading things that I could

447
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: advocate for, if you know what you know, like like

448
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 1: with some of the ways, or I think it wasn't.

449
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 1: I wasn't seeing good scripts. I saw was actually some

450
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 1: a lot of really crummy scripts and most of them

451
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,959
Speaker 1: didn't even come out. But yeah, it was. It was

452
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: really stunning. Did you consider quitting or walking away? No? No, no,

453
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: it was still it's what I what I do, what

454
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: I'm passionate about, what I care about, you know, I don't.

455
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: It was very very hard because like, well, now am

456
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: I supposed to redefine myself? I'm an actor. What's fascinating

457
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: was when I was fifty, I got cast as the

458
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: lead in a TV show called Commander in Chief, where

459
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: I got to be the first female president, and then

460
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: found like, well at last, you know, okay, now it's

461
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: now it's picking back up. Uh. It was tough. I'm

462
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: glad you're still doing it because we need more of you. Um,

463
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: you recently just were awarded an Emmy for the work

464
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: that you've done with the Gina Davis Institute on Gender

465
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: in Media. How did that whole endeavor come about? The

466
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: whole reason I started all of that was having a daughter,

467
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: and uh, when she was two years old, I thought, hey,

468
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: we could start watching preschool shows. Now, I'm sure she

469
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: would would love that, and put around my lap and

470
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: turn on the on a show. And within five minutes,

471
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: maybe ten minutes, I was saying, how many female characters

472
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: are there in this thing? Obviously we know there's a

473
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: big imbalance in general, but I couldn't have imagined it

474
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: would be in kids entertainment. And then I saw it

475
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: everywhere in the movies that came out in a you know,

476
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: G rated video. I didn't attend to know. Now I'm

477
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: going to form and it's you're anything, But I just started.

478
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: Whenever I had a meeting, I would ask if they

479
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: whoever it was, had had ever noticed that there were

480
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: far fewer female characters in movies made for kids. And

481
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: every single person said, no, no, that's not true anymore.

482
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: That's been fixed, And they would name a movie with

483
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: one female character as proof the gender inequality was over.

484
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: Like people very often said, well, there's been Belle from

485
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: Beauty and the Beast, you know, but huh and she's

486
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: a prisoner and you know, get Stockholm syndrome. So I

487
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: was like, wow, this is so unconscious. I wonder if

488
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: I got the data and went directly to them, because

489
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: I probably can get meetings with whoever if that would

490
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: have an impact. If it's completely unconscious and they find

491
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: out what they're doing, will they want to make the change?

492
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: And uh? And it turned out they did. You know,

493
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: it was very ports of it in the people who

494
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: make empty minutes for kids do it because they love kids.

495
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: And so when they learned that they were not going

496
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: right by half of the kids, uh, they everybody really

497
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: wanted to make a change. Well, if those of you

498
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: go back way, it's like the mother always dies within

499
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: the within the first six minutes of a of a

500
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: Disney movie. You know, Dumbo's mom and Bambi's mom and

501
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: you know everybody. Um, but I just I'm I'm a

502
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: huge fan of yours and I want to thank you

503
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: for being so open and I've gained a lot of

504
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 1: hope and confidence from talking to you. So thank you.

505
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: Oh that's incredible. Thank you. So it's really been fun

506
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: to talk to you, Brooke. That was the one and

507
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: only Gina Davis. If you want to hear more from her,

508
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: pick up a copy of her new memoir. It's called

509
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: Dying of Politeness. Trust me, you'll be glad you did.

510
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: And that's all for today. Talk to you next week.

511
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: Ye now. What is produced by the wonderful Julia Weaver

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00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: with help from Darby Masters. Our executive producer is Christina Everett.

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00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: The show is mixed by Bahed Fraser and Christian Bowman.

514
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: A special thanks to nicky Etre and Will Pearson. If

515
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: you liked this episode, please subscribe to the show on

516
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

517
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: get your shows