1 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Hi guys, Nancy Grace here, welcome back to Killers amongst Us, 2 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: the production of iHeart Media and Crime Online. Do you 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: ever see people on TV and I don't know. Maybe 4 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: they're a celebrity, maybe they're a talking ahead, maybe they're 5 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: a politician, a politician that takes stands about what they 6 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: believe is right or wrong, or maybe they're a dirty politician. 7 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: And you wonder, what is that famous person's life really like? 8 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: Because you see them in one way, you kind of 9 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: think you know them, but you don't. You don't know 10 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: what their life is like. You don't know whether they've 11 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: made enemies by the positions they take or the things 12 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: that they say. What is going on in the lives 13 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: of the people we see and read about, Who are 14 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: their enemies? Who was within their circle of friends, their family? 15 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: You know, the stark realization is there are killers amongst us. 16 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace, thank you for being with us for 17 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 1: Killers amongst Us with me an all star panel to 18 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: unravel a mystery. Leavi Page Crime online dot com investigative reporter, 19 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My 20 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: Feet and star of a brand new program poisonous liaisons 21 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: on the True Crime Network. We're now in psychologists joining 22 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: me from New York Karen Stark, judge, trial lawyer, anchor 23 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: Court TV, Ashley Wilcott, and two very special people joining 24 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: me today from Arkansas, Tate Williams and Butch Smith. I 25 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: want to talk for a moment about who is this 26 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: beautiful blonde with the big blue eyes named Linda. Take 27 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: a listen. Linda Collins grew up in smalltown Arkansas. She 28 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: was born in Pocahontas, but went to school in Willaford. 29 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: Her family home was located ten miles down a gravel 30 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: road with no running water until she was in her teens. 31 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: In fact, Willaford is the epitome of small town. Just 32 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 1: seventy five people live there today. It's this upbringing that 33 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 1: Collins credits for her success in life. She says, it's 34 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: this background that taught her the value of hard work 35 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,239 Speaker 1: and the blessing of living in a land where everyone 36 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: from the poor country girl to the inner city street 37 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: kid has the opportunity to achieve their dreams. Well, right there, 38 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 1: our friends at Crime Online told me a lot. Linda 39 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: Collins grew up poor and a small town in Arkansas. 40 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: Now I can relate to that, growing up on a 41 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: red dirt road in the middle of soybean fields and 42 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: pine trees. Born in Pocahontas, Arkansas, goes to school in Williford. 43 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: Her family home was down a gravel road with no 44 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: running water. Until she was in her teens. I can 45 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: remember my grandfather came and dug our well in the 46 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: backyard because where we lived there was no as we 47 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: called it, city water. Straight out to leave Page Crime 48 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter, tell me about Pocahontas, Arkansas. 49 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: So Nancy. That is a small town in the northern 50 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: part of Arkansas, and it has a population of six thousand, 51 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: six hundred and eight people. Six thousand people. You know, hey, 52 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: at least it's a town. Well, where I grew up 53 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: in Bibb County, we were an unincorporated Bibb County. We 54 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: had to make an address, but I guess that's because 55 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: as the closest way, the only way as a marker 56 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: to get the mail to us. What do we know 57 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: about Linda Collins joining me? Butch Smith and Tate Williams, 58 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: her son and daughter Tate. What can you tell me 59 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: about your mom's upbringing. I mean, this is a real 60 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: rags to richest story, coming from a gravel road with 61 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: no running water and finding her way at the ladder 62 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: to business owner, realtor, and politician. That's pretty impressive. Yeah. Absolutely. 63 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: She was a very strong woman. You know, she was 64 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:34,679 Speaker 1: raised to give it one hundred and ten percent everything 65 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: she did to you know, really put yourself out there 66 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: and if you're going to do it, you know, you 67 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: do it to the best of your ability. And she 68 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: definitely used that motto to really drive her through her life. 69 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: What was she like as a mom? Tate, What are 70 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: your most vivid memories of your mom when you were 71 00:04:55,440 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: growing up? She was very strict and strong. She expected 72 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: the same out of us as she expected for herself. 73 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: So if we did something, we were expected to do 74 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: it one hundred and ten percent, because one hundred was 75 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: just doing it, you know, just enough. You needed to 76 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: do it, you know, more than that, you needed to 77 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: give it your all. And so that really she really 78 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: used that in everything in all of our life lessons 79 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: growing up to give us that same drive in life 80 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: as well. What about it, But what do you recall 81 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: your most vivid memories? Was it a birthday party? Was 82 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: it her cooking dinner? What? What was it? What sticks 83 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: in your mind? Well, to be honest, the cooking dinner 84 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: thing was not necessarily a fourte my mother's not that 85 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: she couldn't. The lady was just so busy that she 86 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: really just did not have time. To be honest with you, 87 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: I would say that the I guess the main takeaway 88 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: or the main memory I've got over, it's going to 89 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: be the just the sheer drive that this woman had 90 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: that I have no idea how she accomplished the thing 91 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: that she did on a daily basis, and you know, 92 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: just trying to strive to be like that. And nobody 93 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: can forget her reverend stick that she was always sporting around, 94 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: So that bright revorend stick always sticked out in my mind. 95 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: When you say all the things that she accomplished in 96 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: a day, what do you mean by that? So she 97 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: owned multiple hotels, She had built a franchise property back 98 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,919 Speaker 1: in two thousand, She had another unfranchise property that we 99 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: had purchased and remodeled. We had multiple mental properties that 100 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: she also took care of, and all the while she 101 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: was dealing a mother and of course, on top of 102 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: all that she was also in politics when she was 103 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 1: down into a little rock at the Capitol and you know, 104 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: dealing with all that, and because she hadn't parted down there, 105 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: that she was staying at part time and she was 106 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 1: always always on the go. No too, Karen Stark, psychologists 107 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: joining us today from Manhattan. I get it coming from 108 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: a home where you didn't even have running water and 109 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:55,679 Speaker 1: you lived on a gravel road. Analyze what you're hearing, 110 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 1: Karen Stark about their mom, Linda, Well, when I'm here 111 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: watch believe it or nutsounds a lot like you. You know, 112 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: someone who didn't have much growing up and was completely ambitious. 113 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: And we all know that raising children and trying to 114 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: be successful for a woman is a hard thing to balance. 115 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: But she was able to do that even though her 116 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: cooking was an outstanding and she was driven to success. 117 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: That's what I get about her fumbling. You know, I 118 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: think sometimes people that grew up so poor, they just 119 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: will spend all their energy do whatever it takes to 120 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: rise up out of that for themselves and their children. 121 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: Take a listen. Early on, Colin Smith's business acumen was evident. 122 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: She got into real estate and became a nationally recognized agent. 123 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: From there, she began to move into the hotel business, 124 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: and she became president of the Arkansas Launching Association and 125 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: winner of statewide tourism awards. Wow, our friend ed Crime 126 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: online dot Com. That's Dave Max speaking. Wow, those are 127 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: some serious accomplishments. Straight out to Levi Page, Crime online 128 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter, this woman sounds like a house 129 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: of fire, as we say, absolutely Nancy. She owned hotels, 130 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: she was a real estate agent. She served in the 131 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: Arkansas House of Representatives and then went on to become 132 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: a state senator. So this is someone that is extremely 133 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: ambitious and very successful in life. She had a drive 134 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: to her and to top it all off, she's beautiful. 135 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: Butch or Tay, do either one of you look like 136 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: your mom? You really? Do? You really look like her? 137 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: Tap Um? I don't think so as much, but I 138 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: definitely have family members that declare that I definitely am 139 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:04,079 Speaker 1: related to her. Well, you are one lucky girl. Let 140 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: me tell you that. Coming from a gravel road with 141 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: no running water, this woman claus her way to success 142 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: single handedly. You know, Ash Wilcot, you're a judge of trial, lawyer, 143 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: anchor court TV at Ashley Wilcott dot com. We're hearing 144 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: a lot about all her achievements, but she has children, 145 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: she has a home. She was a mother that took 146 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: care for children and raised them, trying to give them 147 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: a better life than she had as a child. That's 148 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: hard to do. It takes a lot of love to 149 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: raise two children while you're trying to drag the whole 150 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: family up so they don't have to go through what 151 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: you went through. That's exactly what causes the drive, right. 152 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: You know, you just heard from the family that she 153 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 1: was driven, that she was busy all the time. Why 154 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 1: do people do that to provide and the mother they're 155 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: specifically when they have children. I see it in court 156 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: all the time. They have that drive to provide for 157 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: their children. And this is the American dream. How did 158 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: she succeed? How did she find the success only by 159 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: working her tail off and working hard. Good for her 160 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: for doing the right thing to provide for her kids. 161 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: And you know, it's hard for a lot of people 162 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: to understand when you are working hard, you want to 163 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:29,839 Speaker 1: be with your children. You want to be there with them, 164 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: and you'll move heaven and earth to be with them, 165 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: to be at home, to be in their lives. But 166 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: first of all, you got to put food on the table. 167 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: And when you grow up the way this woman grew 168 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: up with nothing, not even running water, you don't want 169 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: your children to live the way you did as a child. 170 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: I think it's hard for a lot of people that 171 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: haven't in Paris to understand that you want something better 172 00:10:55,559 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 1: for your children. I mean, Joe Scott as a death investigator, profess, Sir, 173 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: you have to face this every day between work and home. Yeah, 174 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: you do, Nancy, And you have to make these determinations. 175 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: What's going to have the more weight to it. You know? 176 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: Right now, I've got my grandchildren with me, which is 177 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:16,959 Speaker 1: the biggest blessing in the world. I'd much rather be 178 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:20,319 Speaker 1: with them than be doing work, for instance. And sometimes, 179 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: you know, you have to make this decision. I have 180 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: to work in order that I can spend more time 181 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 1: with my family. And it's a very very difficult balance 182 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: to realize. Tell me to Lenda's children now adults, Butch 183 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: and Tate, tell me about your mom's nurturing side to you. 184 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: I imagine the reason she was so driven is to 185 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: try to have a better life for her family. What 186 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: about it? Butch well, absolutely, Nancy. She only wanted the 187 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 1: best for us, but she didn't want the best in 188 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: a spoiled kind of way. Let me back uple commit there. 189 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: You know, while we were growing up as teenagers and 190 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: you know, and things like that, and when we're kind 191 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: of coming come in a age, so to speak, us, 192 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: you know, we had the potential to become you know, 193 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: spoiled you know, little children and things because you know, 194 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: the income was getting better for the family and everything 195 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: like that. And that wasn't the way that she worked, 196 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: and that's not the way her brain was wired. It 197 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,599 Speaker 1: was you know, yeah, you would get the necessities, but 198 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: anything else that you want, you're going to work your 199 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 1: butt off to get it, just like I did. And 200 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: so you know, that's just that was the nurturing side, 201 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 1: I guess in a way, is that she wanted us 202 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: to be um, you know, kind of in the same 203 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: way that she was in that you know, don't expect handouts, 204 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 1: don't you know, don't don't base yourself off other people. 205 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: You're gonna do yourself. You're gonna be you and to 206 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: do the best of you that you can be. So 207 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: Butch and Tate. This is all compounded by the fact 208 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 1: that she's a single mom supporting you guys. Butch right 209 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 1: right as she divorced, was divorced from our biological father 210 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: back when we were very young. I'd say before I 211 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: was ten years old. Probably absolutely. I actually had noticed 212 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: before I was ten years old. And so then you know, 213 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: from there we were having to kind of live with 214 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: our grandparents and stuff until she could get another homelind 215 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: out and from and working NonStop at the real estate, 216 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,439 Speaker 1: just anything and everything that she could do to support it. 217 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: And so she absolutely loved it. Was very caring. It's 218 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 1: just you know, when somebody's working their tail office. She 219 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: did and worked the hours that she did. You know, 220 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: we had limited time seeing her when we were younger. Um, 221 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 1: you know, until things financially improved, it it more. But 222 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 1: she just did everything that she could to make sure 223 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: that we were taking care of you know, honestly, wonderful 224 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: she is as a grandmother. She when she got to 225 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: the point of you know, me and my sister having children, Uh, financially, 226 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: she was much more stable than she was as we 227 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: were growing up. And uh, and you know how parents are, 228 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: especially mothers with the children. You know, they loved to 229 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: spend that time with those grandkids and really meant a 230 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: lot to the kids. And I've got my oldest child 231 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: has some mental disability, and so she is his favorite 232 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: person because she took a lot of extra time and 233 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: still with him. I wonder if that's not why people 234 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: say they're better grandparents than they were parents, because when 235 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: you're a parent, you're trying so hard, Like I run 236 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: like a comanche all day and then try to get 237 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: with my children. But you know it's because I'm trying 238 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: to support them, Yes, And I'm just thinking about what 239 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: all she went through in her background, and you know, 240 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: it brings to mind. Karen Stark me getting home from school. 241 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: We were latch key kids because my mom had to 242 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: work so late at night. My dad had to work 243 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: different shifts for the railroad. So we would come home 244 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: and it was the highlight of my dad when I 245 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: heard my mom. Sometimes it would be six, sometimes it 246 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: would be seven or later blow her horn as she 247 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: came up the driveway, and we would all have whoever 248 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: was home, we would all have dinner together, and she 249 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: usually worked so late. We and we were two little girls, 250 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: and my brother would try to get dinner started. So 251 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: because I feel so bad because she was working so hard. 252 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people experienced that across 253 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: the country. And I know Tate and butched it, and 254 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: you know that the story doesn't sound strange to meet all, Nancy, 255 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: because I grew up the same way. And I feel 256 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: like my own mother was like that. She had to work, 257 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: and what she wanted more than anything was for her 258 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: kids to be okay, to do well, and to do 259 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: better than she had done. And I hear that in 260 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: this story. I hear a loving mother who was outfield, 261 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: really doing anything that she could to provide for her family. 262 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: On top of that, she didn't have a husband, so 263 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: her children would be raised by grandparents. It's really an 264 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: American story, don't you think one of those success stories 265 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: where you do everything. I really do, I really, I 266 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: really do, Karen, start and think about it. She didn't 267 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: just go for a lifestyle for her children. She wanted 268 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: to make changes in this world. Take a list st 269 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: our friends at CBS. The fifty seven year old mother 270 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: was elected to the States Senate as a Republican in 271 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen. Glinda's one of those people that couldn't it 272 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: be bought, uncorruptible, that wanted to tell people that bad 273 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: stuff was happening at the capitol. Ken Yang was Collins's 274 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: communication director. He says O'Donnell worked on Collins's reelection campaign. 275 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: They're good friends. They traveled together, then did grassroots stuff. Oh. 276 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: The fifty seven year old mother was elected to the 277 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: state Senate as a Republican in twenty fourteen. Blenda's one 278 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 1: of those people that couldn't be bought, uncorruptible, that wanted 279 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: to tell people that bad stuff was happening at the capitol. 280 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: Ken Yang was Collins's communication director. He says O'Donnell worked 281 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: on Collins's reelection campaign. They're good friends. They traveled together, 282 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: then did grassroots stuff. Now that's jumping into a cesspool 283 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: right there. To Butch Smith and Tate Williams. When you 284 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: get into politics, I mean you are swimming with some 285 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: swamp rats for sure. And what I understand is that 286 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: your mom, Linda wanted to make changes in this world 287 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: and expose bad things happening at the capitol. Their words, 288 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: not mine. You can make a lot of enemies that way, 289 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: Tate Williams, Yeah, you can. You know. She often heard 290 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: people will go to her of having the backbone of 291 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: ten men. You know, she when she felt something and 292 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: it was a moral obligation to her, she did not 293 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: back down. And it didn't matter how tall you were, 294 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: because she was a very short lady, and she didn't 295 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: care if you look down on her. But she always 296 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 1: held her ground and made sure that people knew what 297 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 1: was going on. She didn't want it. She wanted transparency. 298 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: She didn't want that to be hidden, especially you know 299 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: in Little Rock, Kay Williams. The worst times I ever 300 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: had at the DA's office when I was prosecuting, that 301 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: was when I had to go to the Georgia State Assembly, 302 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 1: the legislature and lobby anti crime issues. I mean, being 303 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: around those politicians. Oh, dear Lord in Heaven, I couldn't. 304 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: I'd rather try a serial killer than I remember trying 305 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,959 Speaker 1: to get the rape She'll law passed, and they fought 306 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 1: tooth and nail. Of course, most of them were defense attorneys. 307 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: They didn't want anything to protect a victim. And I 308 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: looked her around and I thought, what in the world 309 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: of the public only knew what goes on in politics. 310 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: And here comes You're a mom Linda, the long blonde hair, 311 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 1: the beautiful blue eyes, and she is going to expose 312 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: quote bad things happening at the Capitol, and she would 313 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:22,120 Speaker 1: not back down. Oh h E double l knows she wouldn't. 314 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: And the only reason she was making it was because 315 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: of sheer drive. Sheer drive. Take a listen to Aaron Hogan. 316 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: I remember watching her work all day here at the Capitol, 317 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: and once her day was finished, she would pack up 318 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: the move vehicle and take me along. We hop in there. 319 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: We would go two hours. However, we get to to 320 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,479 Speaker 1: get back to her district and we would be at 321 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: the meeting her again. But she was willing to for 322 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: a couple hours and then you back in the car, 323 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: back in the car and get back to it a 324 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: little while so that she would be here for work 325 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: the next morning. We had a lot of long, good, 326 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: heartfelt talks together on those drives, and when we were 327 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: not talking, she was on the phone helping someone. That's 328 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: who she was. When everyone else has went out and tired, 329 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 1: I'd gone home by the bed, she was still working. 330 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: Sometimes I would receive text messages from her at two o'clock, 331 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 1: three o'clock in the morning and break the Loorida did 332 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: not see him till the next morning because I valued 333 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: my sleep. So while everybody else goes to sleep, Mom 334 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: is up working pushing it. I bet she was so 335 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 1: tired at night. You know. Whenever she would fleep, she 336 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: didn't fleep the whole one. She just like Aaron, sit 337 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: on there. She Mom would text you at two or 338 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,439 Speaker 1: three o'clock in the morning. It was very very regular, 339 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: not occasionally, it was every every couple of days. You'd 340 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,479 Speaker 1: received messages in the middle of the mon and she 341 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 1: just hadn't went to bed yet. And then she'd be 342 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: up around six thirty seven o'clock the next morning, going 343 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: right back out of the again. Well, you know, it 344 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 1: must have often mentions that I'm texting at one or 345 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: two and then again at five. That's not because I 346 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: don't want to sleep. I just have so much to do. 347 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, to get it all in. It's 348 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: hard to do. I've got a very strong feeling she 349 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: didn't want to stay awake all night long. No, not 350 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 1: at all. She couldn't turn it off either, you know, 351 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: she just had to get it all done, you know. 352 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: And then finally, once she got whatever it was that 353 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: day she needed to get done, she could sleep for 354 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: an hour or two and then get up and do 355 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: it again. And she got that from her from her father, 356 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: and my grandfrom grandfather is the same in fact way, 357 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's she learned it from him. Yeah, But 358 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: I gotta say as successful as she was literally pulling 359 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: herself up from her with her own bootstraps, she was 360 00:21:55,200 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: unlucky in love her first marriage. Ends. She did get 361 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: the joy of having Butch and Tate her son and 362 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: daughter the apples of her eyes. But she left your dad. 363 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: They broke up, Butch. What happened, Well, that would have 364 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: been back before I was even ten years old, So 365 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: back when I was very young, and I believe ate 366 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: the feeling diapers. At the time, my father he had 367 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,120 Speaker 1: hurt his back or injured it in some way, and 368 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: he was very adamant about living on disability, and he 369 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: wanted my mother to quit her job, stopping him what 370 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: she was doing, and just settle down and just live 371 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: off the government type of deal. And that's just not 372 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: who she was, it's not what she's made of, and 373 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: she didn't. She wasn't going to go along with that plan. 374 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 1: She wanted something more than that. And so then I'm 375 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 1: sure that went to other discussions and other issues again 376 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: I was a child then, but then they went ahead 377 00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 1: and they divorced, and now that was kind of kind 378 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: of the deal with that. So that didn't work out. 379 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: This was not a stay at home and live off 380 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 1: government disability woman. Oh, that was not going to work. 381 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,360 Speaker 1: She devotes herself to pulling her and her two children 382 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: up to a different socio economic strata, and she worked 383 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 1: around the clock to make it happen. But then she 384 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: seems to meet her night in shining armor, Philip Smith, 385 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: who turns out to be a circuit court judge. So 386 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 1: here she comes, this hard charging, beautiful blonde collides with 387 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: Philip Smith, a lawyer who goes on to be a 388 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:51,360 Speaker 1: circuit court judge. Wow, it finally seems like in addition 389 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: to the joy she gets from her children, she's getting 390 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 1: happiness in her life. But that was not meant to be. 391 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: Take a listen to Hyler Thomas and at Kaark court 392 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 1: documents who revealed the former senator was in the process 393 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: of divorcing her husband, retired Judge Philip Smith. Hearing in 394 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: that case was scheduled later this month, and according to 395 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: documented testimony, the couple were at odds over money after 396 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: selling a local hotel for more than a million dollars 397 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: the X lawmakers. A former spokesperson tells us the divorce 398 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: quote was not pleasant. H why is it that money 399 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: seems to be at the root of so much heartache? 400 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: LEVI page what happened in the divorce? This guy's a judge, 401 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,160 Speaker 1: for Pete's sake. Yes, they were going through a very 402 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: bitter divorce proceedings, Nancy. At one point Philip Smith accused 403 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: Linda Collins Smith of hiding assets and he wanted her jail. 404 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 1: That did not happen, and he was also I guess 405 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,199 Speaker 1: it didn't. This woman works her fingers to the bone 406 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:02,400 Speaker 1: to amass owning the string at motels and suddenly comes 407 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: along with this lawyer and he wants to take the 408 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: whole thing away from her. Oh no, oh no, that's 409 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: not even you know, scratching the service of their divorce. 410 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: I mean, at one point he was investigated for improper 411 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,239 Speaker 1: use of court equipment during the divorce proceedings, and he 412 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,439 Speaker 1: was reprimanded and agreed to step down from the bench 413 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: and agreed to never work again as a judge. So 414 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: in the middle of his divorce from Linda, this comes out. Oh, 415 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 1: I bet he had an axe to grind, but with politics, 416 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: divorce enemies, she had a mass. Clawing her way to 417 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: the top and taking hard positions on fighting corruption at 418 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: the state capitol. Everything comes to a screeching halt. Nancy 419 00:25:52,280 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: Grace Killers amongst us, signing off goodbye friend.