WEBVTT - Investing in Artists Rather Than Art 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.960 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:06.280 Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:09.600 So you might have missed this just before the New Year, 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:12.160 but our own Bluebird Pursuits team came out with the 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:15.480 best museum Exhibitions of twenty twenty three, which span more 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:20.480 than four hundred years of material with virtually every artistic medium, painting, sculpture, 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:24.920 photography included, all of it. We're talking Vermier in the Netherlands, 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:27.960 I think, in the Reis Museum, oh, very nice, Boscat 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:31.920 in Switzerland, Mark Rothko in Paris and more. I mean 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:32.960 there's a lot of stuff going on. 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:35.800 Yeah, but what about more contemporary artists, those who are 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:38.120 alive in creating art today. We thought it would be 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:40.440 great to check in on that world in the business 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:43.400 of art. For that, we go to Marine ton Gee, 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:46.440 the founder and CEO at MTA Art. It's a talent 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:49.880 and creative agency that represents contemporary artists around the world. 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:53.880 She joins us this afternoon Slash Evening for her on 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:56.600 Zoom from London. She says, the author of an upcoming book, 0:00:56.640 --> 0:01:00.200 The Visual Detox, How to consume media without letting it 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:01.120 consume you. 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:03.000 Which I've been teasing because she's got some views on 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:03.640 social media. 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:04.600 Marine. 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:07.360 Welcome, Welcome, So good to have you here with Tim 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:10.319 and myself here on Bloomberg Business Week. Before we get 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:12.039 into it, tell us a little bit more about your company, 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:14.360 what you do, the kind of clients you're working with 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.560 or are artists you're working with, and then maybe clients 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:19.520 that you kind of put them together because you've been 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:22.720 around almost four ten years here now I think about 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:23.280 nine years. 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:26.560 Yeah, there's been fifteen years in the sector and the 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:29.720 company is almost nine years old. So if you think 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:32.760 of the way talents are represented in music from in sports, 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:35.160 they will have the top talent agencies. Most of them 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:37.640 will be in Los Angeles. In fact, w and me 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:41.600 UTAOCA will have shaped the carriers the most incredible talents. 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:45.280 We were in a very traditional sector where the core 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.480 relationships with the talents were setting the artworks, but there 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:51.880 was nothing else attempts of building up the carriers, developing 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:55.160 new avenue streams, enlarging the agencies. And that's why I 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:57.200 mention where we stood the opportunity to build the first 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:01.040 talent agency and start creating not just the selle of works, 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:06.520 but expanding onto building public art project, brand collaboration, digital projects, 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:10.800 attainment deals, full visual artists, which was very very much 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:11.760 brand new at the time. 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:17.600 Is that that's so different than how traditional artists is represented. No, 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:22.160 I mean there's like a gallery that sells art. 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:24.200 Why is it so? 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:27.239 Why? Yeah, talk to me about the transition to the 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:28.079 new way that. 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.519 The traditional relationship is with the objects and I figure 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:34.280 relationship is with the talent. And it's the idea that 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:36.440 you can in a same way you can take a 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:40.560 bet on an entrepreneur or a musician or an actor, 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:44.040 you're basically betting that talent. We're thinking that you can 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:46.840 do the exact same in our sector. And and also 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:48.840 the fact that if you're looking at you know, you 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:51.440 mentioned some of the music exhibition, but some of the 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:56.360 top artists nowadays don't just do traditional artworks on wars 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:58.919 like a night where we will be doing your movie 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:02.160 deal and also your collaborations and same with Jeff coun 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:06.240 Sam with Kusama. So the definition of what it means 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:08.480 to be successful as an artists also expended for the 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:11.040 past ten years, which is enabled for a business like 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:11.880 ours to strive. 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:14.960 So talk to us. So then about what you hope 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:16.880 to do when you're working with an artist, and I 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:19.640 love the idea that you're working maybe with unknowns. I 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:22.640 remember sitting with Eli Browne, a well known art collector. 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:28.440 You mentioned Jeff Koons and others, and he loved young 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:31.639 I think you know, younger artists that before they were unknown, 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:34.160 and he liked supporting them and cultivating them. And it 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:36.680 sounds like that's something that you guys certainly work a 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:37.040 lot in. 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:40.800 Yeah, So I feel, first of all, it's good to 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:42.840 be aware that the talent diversity in the sector is 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:45.800 pretty low. So we wanted to make sure to contribute 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:47.880 to the studio costs of the artists and put a 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:50.920 team behind them so that we could enable people not 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.160 from the ones we could afford it, but at large 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:55.440 to become a talent in the sector. And that's very 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:58.640 much why we were very passionate about that. After this, 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.480 I would say, there's a real like, you know, Raven 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:04.360 Dick Clark is about to launch the Projects in Alabama 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:06.680 that The New York Times have just released. It will 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:09.560 be the largest cupture part of dedicated to permanent works 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:14.200 of art. Aren't Slavery and Reassessing Slavery? She's twenty seven. 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:17.400 That contract is two point two million, and that's for 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:21.680 twenty seven years or this game change. And we wanted 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:24.240 to be a place where you didn't have to wait 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:26.200 fifty plus and you could come from all types of 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:29.520 backgrounds and lend deals that will be game changing and 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:33.320 could ultimately launch you in doing as many incredible projects 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:34.120 as you want to do. 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:38.640 What advice would you have for just regular people who 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:41.440 want to understand the world better and they just see 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:44.279 it as such an inaccessible place, like how does somebody 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:47.080 know you know what art they should buy? Is it 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:51.400 just a you know when they're you know? The things 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:54.880 that get the headlines are the huge auctions from Christie's 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:55.200 and more. 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:58.960 I think it's you know, there's first of all the 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.760 idea of taste, the super your taste, which has been 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:06.520 because for many, many decades you will only be teaching 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:08.560 the upper middle class, upper class and I speak for 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:10.760 more of a British side, but there will be an 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:13.640 idea that this will be you only teach a few 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:15.840 people to know about arts. So I think first of 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:19.600 all is to develop knowledge into it. And you mentioned 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:23.520 the book for me, like you live in a visual world, 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:25.800 you consume five hundred to six Holaday measures a day. 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:28.640 Unless you're blind, you're very much immersed into a visual world. 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:31.799 So first of all, getting the legible about this visual 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:34.760 world is really important, and art is a part of 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:37.760 the visual world. And second to know that there has 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:41.159 been so many psychology called and a financial barrier there's 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:43.640 been put in place for you to think it's not 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:46.120 for you. And in the same way that I think 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:49.040 some of the financial markets feels very inaccessible in their 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:53.080 language in how to become literate about them, I think 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:56.640 the art world feels the same way. Not coming from 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.600 partially that background, I can say that you can definitely 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:02.520 set educate. You can read a lot. So there's now 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:06.440 loads of different media like the art newspaper, like an 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:08.479 art net and news is that are very good on 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:11.920 educational resource. But also there's more and more books being 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:14.760 published on what do zon markets actually looks like and 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:20.039 how do you navigate it? So knowledge, getting knowledge if 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:21.760 first the foremost. 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:24.240 Yeah, and especially when I think about a younger or 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:26.800 an artist that's just starting out, like if you are 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:29.919 smart and do the research and kind of understand the 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:34.120 markets and maybe understand an individual their work, you can 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:37.080 make it. If you want to invest, you can start 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:41.240 in an unknown more easily and just be a little 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:44.159 bit patient. Hey, you mentioned your new book. It's upcoming. 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:45.760 I think it's out in the summer. I do want 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:48.640 to ask you about that. Tim and I watching a 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:50.880 Ted talk that you guys, that you did specifically a 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:53.400 few years ago. Your book is The Visual Detox, How 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:57.719 to consume media without letting it consume you. You liken social 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:02.800 media to eating junk food, and I would kind of 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:06.960 agree in many ways. There's a lot of stuff out 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:09.479 there and it doesn't necessarily make you feel good or 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:11.320 it's good for you, and there's a lot of misinformation 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:14.600 this book. What is your goal with it? 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:17.760 I think it's like the fish in the water. We 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.960 are in a visual world, and we don't realize we 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:23.520 are in a visual world in a sense that sixty 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:25.800 five percent of us are visual learners. We actually learn 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:28.920 through visuals much better than through text. We get bombarded 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:31.080 all day longer, whether it's on the streets, whether it's 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.760 through the digital with images. But we haven't been taught. 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:37.559 We have been given vailable visual education, and we haven't 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:40.240 been taught how to get around this visual world. So 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:43.720 it's to first and foremost, try to comprehend it, like, 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:46.000 what is this visual world? What do we get bombarded 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:48.440 all day long? How do we really want to get 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:51.840 bombarded with? Mainly the type of narrative we get bombarded with. 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:54.680 How do we get involved? How do we get to 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:56.840 develop visual critical thinking? I mean, if you think of 0:07:56.880 --> 0:07:59.760 the rise of AI, that visual critical thinking is give 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:03.480 me so key, especially misinformation being on the rise. So 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:06.400 then second is that visual critical thinking and those toolkits 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:09.240 to develop a bit and then to be more participative 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:12.240 to shape it as the world that you actually, you know, 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:16.040 want to see more of and being a weather actually 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:19.440 you can contribute to that visual language or that visual 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:22.160 world around you. There's a feel again in the same 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:24.720 way as your question towards the world that you can't 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:27.320 really contribute to it. You're just having to kind of 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:30.320 be on the receiving end of those hundreds of images, 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:33.600 our ideas that you can contribute to it and you 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:34.319 can shape it. 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:37.680 All right, We're gonna, unfortunately have to leave it on 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:38.400 that sae so hard. 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:41.000 It's so hard to live in that world where you're 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:44.200 like you need to rely on social media for your job. Yeah, 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:47.320 this is certainly Marine does too, but also feel like it. 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:51.800 It's also like a it's also like junk food, truly 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:54.320 that on the weekends I have to turn it all. 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:58.640 Off, everything in moderation. Yeah, you know, and I certainly do. Marine. 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:00.000 I know the book. It's either going to come out. 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:03.880 I saw Summer but later. But hopefully you will come 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:06.559 back once it is out and we can talk a 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:07.839 little bit more about that, because I think it's a 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:13.040 very provocative and relevant conversation, Marine Tongay. She is founder 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:15.960 and chief executive officer of MTR, joining us on Zoom 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:16.920 from London.