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Speaker 2: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset when
Speaker 2: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 3: And when I find my ball in.
Speaker 1: A fried egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida egg, Frida egg,
Speaker 1: Frida egggg Frida egg bride egg Lie, I'm about ready
Speaker 1: to run off the golf course. Welcome back to another
Speaker 1: edition of the Friday Podcast and our Superintendent Series. Today's
Speaker 1: episode is with Tyler Marcott. Tyler is the head superintendent,
Speaker 1: the growing superintendent at Brambles. This is a new golf
Speaker 1: course that's being built in Middletown, California, which is just
Speaker 1: north of Napa Valley, so it is in Lake County,
Speaker 1: and it is a new Core and Crenshaw design. I
Speaker 1: think the unique thing here and why I wanted to
Speaker 1: talk with Tyler is the maintenance approach that they're going
Speaker 1: for at Brambles. It's a very old world is going
Speaker 1: to be you know, low input grass. They're going to
Speaker 1: try water as little as possible, which is obviously relevant
Speaker 1: with the weather and drought uh that's going on in California.
Speaker 1: And they are also using sheep to hopefully maintain the
Speaker 1: rough areas. So just kind of a unique job you're
Speaker 1: you're gonna he's not only a you know, superintendent, but
Speaker 1: he's also going to be managing a flock of sheep.
Speaker 1: So it was exciting to talk to Tyler about his
Speaker 1: experience and going to really brand new experience. He's a
Speaker 1: younger superintendent that is now growing in a uh you
Speaker 1: know of course that people are excited to see. So
Speaker 1: without further ado, here is Tyler and thank you for
Speaker 1: listening to another episode of The Bride Now, Tyler, thanks
Speaker 1: for coming.
Speaker 3: On, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: So do you live now up in uh in the
Speaker 1: NAPA area or are you living in Middleton? Where where
Speaker 1: do you reside when you you know, when you take
Speaker 1: this job brand both, where'd you decide to live?
Speaker 3: I'm in Middletown now.
Speaker 2: The company actually has a couple of houses that they
Speaker 2: rent that me and my fiance are staying in for now,
Speaker 2: and then we're actually in the process of putting some
Speaker 2: offers in on houses over in the Hidden Valley Lake area,
Speaker 2: So trying to make it as permanent as possible, as
Speaker 2: soon as possible.
Speaker 1: Man, a lot of shape. You got, you got fiance,
Speaker 1: you got house buying, you got, you got growing in
Speaker 1: a golf course. This has got to be a wild
Speaker 1: time in your life.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of stuff going on.
Speaker 2: Luckily, I've been in we've been engaged for about four years,
Speaker 2: coming in October, so it's been put off with a
Speaker 2: bunch of moves in COVID and all that.
Speaker 3: So that's the easiest part right now.
Speaker 1: Is the date set?
Speaker 3: No it is not.
Speaker 1: That's it. So no date set. You're just you're you're
Speaker 1: in the honeymoon period. You're just that's great. How did
Speaker 1: how did you get into turf?
Speaker 3: Well, I started out back in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2: I was working at a Schoogl country club, just in
Speaker 2: the pro shop, and then I ended up wanting some
Speaker 2: more hours shifted over. I was doing maintenance crew and
Speaker 2: pro shop for a while, and then my time just
Speaker 2: kind of shifted to more more and more maintenance. So
Speaker 2: I was working full time maintenance, and I kind of
Speaker 2: got away from the pro shop a little bit and
Speaker 2: ended up going to school and transferring from my first
Speaker 2: school in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, up to penn State and off
Speaker 2: and running from there.
Speaker 1: So while you were in that intermix, was it an
Speaker 1: intentional shift into turf? Was there something about turf that
Speaker 1: made it kind of resonated with you more than the
Speaker 1: pro shop?
Speaker 2: No, it was actually I just I was in college
Speaker 2: and high school and I just need a little bit
Speaker 2: of extra money and kind of fell in love with
Speaker 2: it and loved being outside and seeing the other side
Speaker 2: of it, and just kind of gravitated that way and
Speaker 2: I've been hooked ever since.
Speaker 1: Nice talk about your kind of your early experience at
Speaker 1: turf and how you ended up getting over to Brambles, So.
Speaker 3: I started out just changing cups.
Speaker 2: I was the only real golfer on the maintenance crew
Speaker 2: back in those days, so I was changing cups and
Speaker 2: rake and bunkers and the normal stuff that young guys
Speaker 2: were doing. And then I ended up once I got
Speaker 2: to Penn State, I did a couple of internships, so
Speaker 2: I went over at National Golf Links and then one
Speaker 2: at Clear Creek, Tahoe. I ended up going back to
Speaker 2: Clear Creek, TA. I was there for five seasons from
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen through twenty twenty and worked my way up
Speaker 2: there from an intern to eventually we made myself the
Speaker 2: golf course superintendent under Director of Grounds Mike Kinneff, which
Speaker 2: I left last season to go down and take my
Speaker 2: first head job down in Albuquerque. And this opened up,
Speaker 2: and James and the guys here were familiar with Mike
Speaker 2: because it's Core Crunshaw as well over at Clear Creek,
Speaker 2: so they called me and I came up, walked it
Speaker 2: a couple of times, and here we.
Speaker 1: Are man talk about a wide range of experiences there.
Speaker 1: Just like throughout you got a question that a lot
Speaker 1: of people ask me, is like, is turf a area
Speaker 1: specific thing, like, you know, if if we're looking for
Speaker 1: a new superintendent, should we be looking for somebody that's
Speaker 1: from the area or can you transition to different areas?
Speaker 1: And right there you talk about your experiences. You know,
Speaker 1: you grew up in the northeast or in the transition
Speaker 1: zone really in Philadelphia area, and then you moved into
Speaker 1: National Golf Links as an intern, which is obviously Long Island,
Speaker 1: different area. Then you were in Lake Tahoe area, which
Speaker 1: has got to be a pretty unique climate, and then
Speaker 1: you went down to Albuquerque before coming back to the
Speaker 1: you know, uh to kind of an arid climate at Bramble.
Speaker 1: So tell talk about maybe kind of the differences between
Speaker 1: National Golf Links to Tahoe to Albuquerque is where we
Speaker 1: could kind of start.
Speaker 2: I did a brief stint in Florida too, just to
Speaker 2: round off all the corners.
Speaker 1: All Right, you're you're the country.
Speaker 3: This job is.
Speaker 2: It's lucky enough that there's enough golf courses around. And
Speaker 2: when I was coming out of school, the assistant shortage
Speaker 2: was really kind of taking place, and everyone needed assistance
Speaker 2: and it was hard to get them. There weren't as
Speaker 2: many guys graduating. So if you know, what you're doing,
Speaker 2: and you wanted to travel, You had all the opportunity
Speaker 2: in the world to get around and see different courses,
Speaker 2: see different climates, see different areas. So I took full
Speaker 2: advantage of it, and I go around wherever I can.
Speaker 2: And my mom always jokes she has a new place
Speaker 2: to visit all the time because I haven't been sitting
Speaker 2: still for too long. But as far as the golf side,
Speaker 2: it's it's just cool to see the difference. The climates
Speaker 2: is one thing, and the different grasses and how things
Speaker 2: are maintained in different areas, But more or less, it's
Speaker 2: how things are, how things are done, and how things
Speaker 2: are run, from designer to designer to style of course,
Speaker 2: the style of course. You know, I've been on everything
Speaker 2: from daily municipal forty five or not municipal but daily
Speaker 2: play forty five thousand rounds a year to about six
Speaker 2: thousand rounds a year. So there's a lot of differences
Speaker 2: and it's cool to see be a part of.
Speaker 3: All of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, talk about that a little bit, you know, from
Speaker 1: the busy public to the very private. You know, with
Speaker 1: you might only see a couple of golfers a day,
Speaker 1: How does that change? The you know, the maintenance crew's
Speaker 1: job and what kind of like the what the atmosphere
Speaker 1: is within the team and everything.
Speaker 2: It's a lot of efficiency is key in those in
Speaker 2: those fast paced tons of golf. I mean, there's when
Speaker 2: I was down in Albuquerque, it was middle of the summer.
Speaker 2: That first group had eighteen green and there was three
Speaker 2: groups a hole until the end of the day.
Speaker 1: And that was at the middle of the COVID boom too,
Speaker 1: so it's extra busy, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: So if you want to get something done on the
Speaker 2: first fairway, some project or anything, you better be there
Speaker 2: at three am and cranking it out because you're not
Speaker 2: going to get back to it and you're not going
Speaker 2: to have time to get there. It's a lot of
Speaker 2: sitting around the guys. It's hard to find stuff for
Speaker 2: the guys to do in the afternoon because obviously you
Speaker 2: want to be weary of golfers and not be too
Speaker 2: much of a nuisance. So it's kind of tricky to
Speaker 2: find stuff to keep them busy with important jobs as
Speaker 2: well as keeping them out of the way as much
Speaker 2: as we can.
Speaker 1: Was that was that a tough adjustment coming from like
Speaker 1: Clear Creek, where probably a lot less round seasonal place.
Speaker 1: You know, Albuquerque, I'm assuming you got golf pretty much
Speaker 1: year round.
Speaker 3: It's year round, depending on the weather.
Speaker 2: So they'll close for a couple of days at a
Speaker 2: time depending on a snowstorm. But if if it's playable,
Speaker 2: there's people playing.
Speaker 1: How how is Albuquerque compared to Tahoe weather wise? Is
Speaker 1: there a lot of similarities?
Speaker 3: Actually there are there more than you would think.
Speaker 2: It gets hotter, for sure, it's a little bit more humid,
Speaker 2: but that the heat is more or less what is higher.
Speaker 2: The elevation is about the same, so your UV and
Speaker 2: all that stuff's about the same. But it definitely gets
Speaker 2: closer to one hundred in Albuquerque than it does in too.
Speaker 1: How does elevation have a big impact on maintenance side?
Speaker 1: This is something that I don't know. You know, I've
Speaker 1: played very little mountain golf in my life, and you know,
Speaker 1: I just I'm genuinely curious how what it's like maintaining
Speaker 1: and mountains.
Speaker 2: It can I mean I noticed in Tahoe for sure,
Speaker 2: once I got out there. I mean you're higher up,
Speaker 2: you're closer to the sun. Things bake out UV lights
Speaker 2: a little bit higher. It just a little bit dries
Speaker 2: out a little bit faster, it gets hotter faster.
Speaker 1: What type of grasses are you were you dealing with there?
Speaker 2: That was all cool season, So we were a mix
Speaker 2: of bluegrass fairways and then bent grass, teas and greens.
Speaker 1: And then what type of year would you're You're obviously
Speaker 1: like in Tahoe you got ski but then it gets
Speaker 1: super hot in the summer and but it's dry. What
Speaker 1: what was your season like in Tahoe.
Speaker 2: So we opened usually at the end of April. I
Speaker 2: think they just opened a couple of weekends ago. They
Speaker 2: opened early May, end of April, and then they shut
Speaker 2: down at the end of October.
Speaker 1: Gotcha, So pretty short season.
Speaker 2: It's a it's a spread up there, that's what we
Speaker 2: call it. Some some places are marathons and this that
Speaker 2: was a sprint.
Speaker 1: So then you go down to somewhere where it's pretty
Speaker 1: much year round. You know, as a superintendent, which one
Speaker 1: do you prefer because that obviously you know there's it's
Speaker 1: you know, depending on what part of the country and
Speaker 1: you deal with the you know where you're going to
Speaker 1: be where you are now brambles will be a year
Speaker 1: round thing. But then you know you'll you go to Tahoe.
Speaker 1: It's just it's a sprint. So which one would you
Speaker 1: Which one do you prefer? Have a gad experience in
Speaker 1: all of them.
Speaker 2: I think I like the year round. It's just you
Speaker 2: can't it's easier to get into a groove more or
Speaker 2: less than that may first hits and bam, you have
Speaker 2: a thousand things to do and you only have so
Speaker 2: much time to get it done and get it done
Speaker 2: properly to provide those conditions that people want. When it's
Speaker 2: year round, you kind of have that that little bit
Speaker 2: of leeway where you don't have two months to make
Speaker 2: something work.
Speaker 3: You have a little bit.
Speaker 2: Of time and you can find your groove and find
Speaker 2: your times to do things without having that that really
Speaker 2: short season to make it work.
Speaker 1: I imagine with with the superintendent job, with it when it's
Speaker 1: in that year round phase. One of the hurdles is
Speaker 1: is almost like a personal one where you accepting it's
Speaker 1: okay to be away because I feel like so many people.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm in the Midwest, so sobody are are
Speaker 1: part of the sprint and it's just, you know, my
Speaker 1: job's insane for five months and I accept that and
Speaker 1: then it you know, then I have some some freedom
Speaker 1: and flexibility, but when you're in that you're round thing,
Speaker 1: it's so much of it is about becoming okay with yourself,
Speaker 1: stepping away for a little while.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you have to surround yourself with the right
Speaker 2: people for sure.
Speaker 3: We've I have here.
Speaker 2: I have my assistant Ryan, who's been awesome and he's
Speaker 2: been fantastic. So if there's ever time that one of
Speaker 2: us needs to get away, we can both rely on
Speaker 2: the other one to keep things around and keep things smooth.
Speaker 3: It's the same thing we had in Tahoe.
Speaker 2: We had a couple of assistants and we were okay
Speaker 2: getting away for a little while. Not during the season,
Speaker 2: but we have had enough people to cover what was
Speaker 2: going on.
Speaker 3: Which was always good.
Speaker 1: How how's the staffing worked with you? Obviously, Bramdble, it's
Speaker 1: not open yet and you're you're I imagine in a
Speaker 1: way you're building your team as opposed to most superintendents
Speaker 1: kind of go and they inherit teams. What what's that
Speaker 1: experience been like where you're getting to kind of shape
Speaker 1: your team.
Speaker 2: It's it's awesome because we have a lot of it's
Speaker 2: word of mouth. I've noticed in the industry. A lot
Speaker 2: of you people got people know people that want jobs,
Speaker 2: and you bring them in, you meet them, and sometimes
Speaker 2: they work, sometimes they don't. We've been very fortunate. It
Speaker 2: started off it was myself and my assistant. We came
Speaker 2: on at about the same time. We brought two guys on
Speaker 2: and they knew people. And we have a crew of
Speaker 2: seven now outside of myself and my assistant, and then
Speaker 2: we have a mechanic starting in a couple of weeks,
Speaker 2: and that's more or less what we plan to be
Speaker 2: our full round or full year round team moving forward.
Speaker 2: We don't want we don't want a forty person crew
Speaker 2: or a massive crew. We want to do things in
Speaker 2: house and do things small and have a small team
Speaker 2: of people that can do everything instead of five people
Speaker 2: that just mow and six people that just do bunkers
Speaker 2: and all these people floating around. We're trying to keep
Speaker 2: it a small and more family style. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean the nice thing too, is that it breaks
Speaker 1: up monotony right where you can do a lot of
Speaker 1: different things. I think that's one of the neatest things
Speaker 1: about being a superintendent is like, you know, it could
Speaker 1: be a blessing and a curse. Is like you don't
Speaker 1: know what the day is bringing you when you go
Speaker 1: to the golf course.
Speaker 2: You know, especially especially here when you're growing one in,
Speaker 2: things change it Things change every hour around here.
Speaker 3: Which is it's fun. It's chaotic, but it's the good chaos.
Speaker 2: It's not trying to try to fix a sprinkler before
Speaker 2: that first group's t and off, But it's fun.
Speaker 1: Is this their first time growing in a golf course? Yes,
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about that experience and you know,
Speaker 1: and obviously, you know, I think most people look at
Speaker 1: it and be like, that's got to be a lot
Speaker 1: of fun. But you know, let us in a little
Speaker 1: bit about how that's different from you know, your your
Speaker 1: experience as a young superintendent. You know, you got your
Speaker 1: first head solo job a year ago and now you're
Speaker 1: growing in a new golf course.
Speaker 2: It's it's definitely fun. It's like I said, it's very chaotic.
Speaker 2: There's a bunch of different things that you don't that
Speaker 2: I've never had to deal with in my day to
Speaker 2: day career that I have to now, whether that be
Speaker 2: different types of equipment that we're using. We're putting in
Speaker 2: the electrical pads for the new maintenance shot. Just things
Speaker 2: that I haven't really dealt with before that I get
Speaker 2: to do now.
Speaker 3: And we haven't had a mechanic here, so.
Speaker 2: Learned a lot of mechanics, learned a lot of mechanics
Speaker 2: stuff in the past couple of months and it's been great.
Speaker 3: I'm glad I learned how to do it and know
Speaker 3: how to do it.
Speaker 1: But what's what's fed the what's fed the toughest mechanical
Speaker 1: hurdle that you've had to overcome, It's got.
Speaker 2: To be the old, the old equipment that we have
Speaker 2: out here. It runs like a dream when it's running,
Speaker 2: but it wants to break. It wants to break really easily.
Speaker 2: Now we got the grind, we got the grinders fired up,
Speaker 2: and it's it's been fun, to say the least.
Speaker 1: So the approach to Brambles, I think obviously people think
Speaker 1: destination golf. They think about like Ritzy, you know, you
Speaker 1: go you go to this experience and it's you're there
Speaker 1: and everything is like, you know, beyond five There's a
Speaker 1: couple of different ways to think about destination golf, right,
Speaker 1: and one of the ways is you go to this
Speaker 1: this place and it's beyond five star. The conditioning is
Speaker 1: is mint. And you know, I think you'll probably get
Speaker 1: to that with the conditioning is going to be mint.
Speaker 1: But I think the approach and overall, you know, ethos
Speaker 1: of the club is a little bit different than that
Speaker 1: over the top kind of experience. Can you talk about
Speaker 1: how that is coming through with the maintenance and the
Speaker 1: grassing decisions and everything at at Brambles, how it's different
Speaker 1: from other new golf courses.
Speaker 2: Well, so right now, I mean, like you said, the
Speaker 2: word like mint, uh, mint for us is a lot
Speaker 2: different than than what most people would think of.
Speaker 3: You know, it's not gonna look.
Speaker 2: As as maintained as I think a lot of places expect.
Speaker 2: We're gonna we're going for that rustic, that on the
Speaker 2: brink of death, firm and fast kind of vibe that
Speaker 2: we want. But for right now, we just got to
Speaker 2: get the grass in. So it's gonna come in green,
Speaker 2: it's gonna come in healthy. We're gonna be doing all
Speaker 2: the fertilizing, all the watering, and then once it's established,
Speaker 2: we're gonna really really pull back on it and see
Speaker 2: what it can do and let it bake out, let
Speaker 2: it firm up, and and let it be firm fast
Speaker 2: and We're going for playability more so than aesthetics. So
Speaker 2: as long as things are playing well and they're healthy,
Speaker 2: we're gonna we're gonna push it and see what we
Speaker 2: can get away with.
Speaker 1: So that process where you're you know, you're giving your
Speaker 1: having the grass a lot of inputs at the start
Speaker 1: to get it to establish. But then once that establishes,
Speaker 1: and then you're gonna go the complete opposite direction of
Speaker 1: that growing kind of ethos? Is that challenging it away? Like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not an expert on turf. You know,
Speaker 1: I probably know just a little too much at this
Speaker 1: point where I'm the worst person you could have giving
Speaker 1: any advice. But you know, is that difficult? Like is
Speaker 1: that a hard thing to do? Or is it? Is it?
Speaker 1: Or does it cut off? And then is that a
Speaker 1: good thing for the plant in the long run?
Speaker 2: It's good in the long run. I mean the more
Speaker 2: the stronger you can you can make it, obviously, the
Speaker 2: better it's you kind of have to coddle this this
Speaker 2: oyser grass and get it going, and it takes a
Speaker 2: little bit more to get it established it in the ground,
Speaker 2: but it's a real it's a real hardy grass and
Speaker 2: it can really take a lot. It can take a
Speaker 2: beating and take a drought. It's real drought tolerant and
Speaker 2: we're really gonna see what it can do.
Speaker 3: But that's down a lot once it's.
Speaker 1: In obviously that I think that's a big part of
Speaker 1: of where you are. And I think when you think
Speaker 1: about it, what you you're talking about, we're not going
Speaker 1: to water it a ton. And obviously you're in the
Speaker 1: part of the country where water is a is a
Speaker 1: big deal. You know, drought is a is a and
Speaker 1: water is a hot topic in California. The decision to
Speaker 1: go with this zoysia was it largely, you know, part
Speaker 1: play playability and what exactly type of grass is it
Speaker 1: uh with the zoysia, and part playability, but you know,
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the drought resistance and and
Speaker 1: what that gives you in an area of the country
Speaker 1: where water is a very you know, touchy subject.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's I think a lot of it was
Speaker 2: the low input when they made the decision to go
Speaker 2: with the zoysia, and then we were running Xeon zoysia
Speaker 2: in the fairways and tease and then greens are going
Speaker 2: to be a prism zoysia. But I mean the drought tolerance.
Speaker 2: Just for some numbers. We've been run in about four
Speaker 2: to five minutes a day total on the eighth Fairway,
Speaker 2: which is pretty well grown in. It's about eighty to
Speaker 2: ninety percent covered right now and it looks looks fantastic.
Speaker 2: But we've been watering about five minutes a day and
Speaker 2: some stretches where the temperatures have been seventies and eighties,
Speaker 2: and we're holding about fifty percent moisture down about four
Speaker 2: and a half inches deep, which seems high, but the
Speaker 2: way our soils are and they're not the best, but
Speaker 2: I think it's going to work out for us. They're
Speaker 2: holding wet, they stay wet underneath, but they get pretty
Speaker 2: hard on top, so they really don't take a lot
Speaker 2: of water.
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Speaker 1: at Toro Golf on Twitter and reach out to your
Speaker 1: local Toro distributor today. So can you tell me about
Speaker 1: the sheep? And are you? Are you the one that
Speaker 1: is in charge of them?
Speaker 3: So I'm going to tell them.
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell our shepherd where to take them,
Speaker 2: pretty much, and that's my extent of it.
Speaker 1: Explain the sheep. Explain the sheep for those that don't
Speaker 1: are aware.
Speaker 2: So we have we have about sixty eight sheep I
Speaker 2: believe out in the pen right now, and the ultimate
Speaker 2: goal is to try to move them around the golf
Speaker 2: course and incorporate them into our maintenance practices and get
Speaker 2: away from string trimmers and rough mowers and all that
Speaker 2: sort of stuff. So logistically it's going to be it's
Speaker 2: going to be fun to figure out and see what
Speaker 2: we can do and what we can't do. But that's
Speaker 2: part of what we want to do here, and part
Speaker 2: of our ideology here is we're learning as we can go.
Speaker 2: We're not going for that instant gratification of having it
Speaker 2: done on a set date.
Speaker 3: We're going to figure stuff out and.
Speaker 2: What works and what doesn't work, but we're hoping to
Speaker 2: incorporate them as much as we can and not make
Speaker 2: them so much as a novelty but an actual piece
Speaker 2: of what we're doing.
Speaker 1: So you hired a shepherd, Yes, did you hire?
Speaker 3: The owners hired her.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't even know to ask her if it was
Speaker 2: up to me, but yeah, she's coming in and she's
Speaker 2: going to coordinate with us, and she'll be part of
Speaker 2: our staff more or less on the golf maintenance side.
Speaker 2: But when it comes to the health and the well
Speaker 2: being and shearing and all the stuff that goes into them,
Speaker 2: that's all her domain. And we're going to try to
Speaker 2: figure out a way to move them through the golf
Speaker 2: course and get them then awesome stuff down because there's
Speaker 2: not a there's not a mower that can do what
Speaker 2: they do out in.
Speaker 3: Those native areas.
Speaker 2: When we have them in their in their electric fences
Speaker 2: and their temporary pens, what they do it it looks
Speaker 2: really cool and it makes for a really cool native area.
Speaker 2: And if there's anyone that can re create that with
Speaker 2: a weed whacker, and then they have a job out.
Speaker 1: Here, what how's it different. Obviously, native areas, I think
Speaker 1: are where so many clubs struggle because what happens is
Speaker 1: they have this idea of this low input native area
Speaker 1: that oh, it's gonna be great, it's gonna look great,
Speaker 1: it's going to play great, and we are going to
Speaker 1: have to put a lot of work into it. And
Speaker 1: what ends up happening is they end up being the
Speaker 1: most work and they end up unplayable. That while they
Speaker 1: bring this great esthetic, they they kind of you know,
Speaker 1: require a ton of inputs from them between labor and
Speaker 1: you know, growth regular or whatever it may be, and
Speaker 1: they end up being kind of a nuisance for the golfers.
Speaker 1: How what what is it that a sheep Gray's native brings?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: What what are we looking at in terms of uh,
Speaker 1: you know, you said it's a great native, What what
Speaker 1: does that mean?
Speaker 2: So they take it down pretty much. They take it
Speaker 2: on most of the dirt and spots, and they move
Speaker 2: around and they leave they leave just these little tufts.
Speaker 2: It's like those long, those long fescue plants that you'll
Speaker 2: see every now and then. They just leave a couple
Speaker 2: of those all over the place, and it's real spotty,
Speaker 2: and it looks real natural, and it's that natural look
Speaker 2: that we're going for, where it's not fairway mode rough
Speaker 2: at two inches and then native outpast that it's gonna be.
Speaker 2: We kind of wanted to blend out as best as
Speaker 2: we can, and they can take it down to the
Speaker 2: dirt and down to that fairway height, and they can
Speaker 2: also leave some some cool looking tufts where you'll never
Speaker 2: know you don't know what lie you're gonna get in there, but.
Speaker 3: You'll probably find your ball. So that's more or less
Speaker 3: what we're looking for.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that I think that's like actually my favorite. I
Speaker 1: was at the country club last year and some of
Speaker 1: their native was completely mowed down with a weed whacker,
Speaker 1: and I kind of thought to myself, like, this is
Speaker 1: ideal because you have like these patchy parts like where
Speaker 1: there's grass tough, but then there's the dirt, and your
Speaker 1: ball could sit up perfectly on one of those grasps tough,
Speaker 1: and it could be like it's on a tee. But
Speaker 1: if you get just if it rolls a half revolution,
Speaker 1: then it ends up on the other side of the
Speaker 1: grass tough, and you're starting to wonder what do I do?
Speaker 1: And I think that's a kind of an ideal scenario
Speaker 1: for an out of play area where you know you
Speaker 1: hit If you hit your ball in there, you're almost
Speaker 1: like it's like you're you have that thrill of a
Speaker 1: blind shot. You don't know what's my lie going to
Speaker 1: be like while you're in your heart kind of beats
Speaker 1: a little bit faster.
Speaker 3: Ud.
Speaker 1: I think that's a really cool dimension of golf.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, definitely. And then the other part of the
Speaker 2: Sheep is kind of James's whole idea with this, with
Speaker 2: this property and kind of kind of meshing old the
Speaker 2: old century and the new century into it. He was born,
Speaker 2: he was born one hundred and fifty years too late.
Speaker 2: Everyone jokes about he loves the old style and we
Speaker 2: want it to look we wanted to have that look,
Speaker 2: and those sheep kind of bring us back. It's nothing
Speaker 2: new necessarily, it's it's just older than people get.
Speaker 3: It's just old. Well.
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be a big juxtaposition from you know,
Speaker 1: if you go just down the road to Napa, the
Speaker 1: golf and Napa is is very lush, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's a lot of tourists that are traveling in
Speaker 1: expecting that resort golf experience, and you're gonna go over
Speaker 1: the hill to to your to middle to town and
Speaker 1: you're gonna be in a completely different place, like it
Speaker 1: is gonna feel so much more like the area. You know,
Speaker 1: it's gonna look natural because it's of of that aspect
Speaker 1: of of of the you know, the maintenance practice. This
Speaker 1: tell us about the sheep and and their productivity, like
Speaker 1: what are we how often would say what you're up
Speaker 1: and running? How often is the pen moving? Is this
Speaker 1: a daily move? Like do the sheep just handle one area?
Speaker 1: How big is the pen? Like if you could pay
Speaker 1: then and obviously most people, you know, almost everybody is
Speaker 1: not gonna have been on property, like what what kind
Speaker 1: of give us a look at what this what the
Speaker 1: sheep are gonna look like on opening day.
Speaker 2: So that's that's what we have to figure out, and
Speaker 2: that's what we're hopefully trying. We're going to try to
Speaker 2: start figuring out that plan this summer and try to
Speaker 2: find out a way to move them around effectively to
Speaker 2: where they're getting stuff done and but they're covering enough
Speaker 2: at a time. So my initial thought just when when
Speaker 2: they mentioned it to me was if you could get
Speaker 2: half of the half of the herd on the front
Speaker 2: nine and half on the back nine and keep them
Speaker 2: on a hole for two days and then move them
Speaker 2: to the next hole, so they'd be on one and
Speaker 2: ten and two and eleven, and just move them through
Speaker 2: the golf course in two separate, two separate flocks on
Speaker 2: the front and back.
Speaker 3: And maybe that's the way to do it.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's not, but it's it's gonna take a lot
Speaker 2: of trial and air, and we're excited to figure it out,
Speaker 2: excited to see what it takes.
Speaker 1: I imagine too. Then there's gonna be areas of like
Speaker 1: where there's a bunch of holes that are packed together.
Speaker 1: Having been out there, you know there are it's a
Speaker 1: core crunch Shaw design, So you're gonna have these returning
Speaker 1: spots of interest where the course kind of weaves all together.
Speaker 1: There are gonna be areas where, like you know, there's
Speaker 1: three or four holes near each other, they're gonna be
Speaker 1: able to knock out a bunch. It's gonna be I mean,
Speaker 1: And then they just crossed the fairway into another area.
Speaker 1: How I mean, when do you move the sheep even We'll.
Speaker 2: Probably have to do it at night or early morning
Speaker 2: before play, especially because we're dog friendly out here, and
Speaker 2: that's our goal is if dogs. If your dog is
Speaker 2: able to be off leash and and control itself, then
Speaker 2: it's more than welcome out here with us. My dog
Speaker 2: comes and runs around, our assistance dogs runs around. But
Speaker 2: that could also be bad because my dog broke into
Speaker 2: the electric fence a couple of weeks ago, was herding
Speaker 2: them around the fence or HEARDing him around the pens,
Speaker 2: and I had to run in there and grab her out.
Speaker 2: And Zeus did what Zeus does and picked his head up,
Speaker 2: looked at me, and put his head back down. So
Speaker 2: he wasn't really in the mood that day. But yeah,
Speaker 2: we'll probably have to move when when people aren't here,
Speaker 2: and that's gonna be the fun part again, is like
Speaker 2: you said, there's those big zones where they can sit
Speaker 2: in the middle for two weeks at a time and
Speaker 2: knock a whole bunch down and do a bunch of
Speaker 2: good in between a couple holes. But there's also some
Speaker 2: zones along the property line out on six and seven
Speaker 2: where there's not a hole out of room for them,
Speaker 2: and we're gonna figure out if we can even put
Speaker 2: them out there, if that's going to be machine mode
Speaker 2: and we it all comes down to the hole in itself,
Speaker 2: each individual hole, and where they can go and where
Speaker 2: they can't go based off size, because obviously they like
Speaker 2: a bigger zone. They can knock out a lot in
Speaker 2: a short amount of time.
Speaker 1: What do you think about maintenance? I always especially when
Speaker 1: you go to some places, like in my mind, I
Speaker 1: have like wing Foot in my mind, where you have
Speaker 1: your kind of smaller strip of fairway grass and then
Speaker 1: you have just a load of irrigated turf rough that's
Speaker 1: just rough that's maintained and it's mowed. And I think
Speaker 1: about all the time that's spent by staff on a
Speaker 1: mower mowing this grass. That's relatively you know, anybody that's
Speaker 1: mowed a big yard of grass, it's relatively mindle it's
Speaker 1: a great time to knock out podcasts. It's a great
Speaker 1: time to think about things. But you know, you you're
Speaker 1: you're just sitting there mowing. You're taking out a huge
Speaker 1: chunk of man hours with these sheep. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you're privy to this, like what's the
Speaker 1: upfront costs and in the you know versus you know,
Speaker 1: long term, if this works out, I imagine you're you
Speaker 1: come out way ahead because of equipment and everything.
Speaker 2: For sure, I mean on top, I mean for out here,
Speaker 2: if we wanted to mow all of the the native
Speaker 2: that you want to call it, where we would have
Speaker 2: the sheep, if we want to mow that down with machines,
Speaker 2: I mean we're gonna You're looking at three to four mowers,
Speaker 2: which is three to four more people to operate those mowers,
Speaker 2: and the labor hours itself that comes with it.
Speaker 3: It's it's in. It's a big amount of money.
Speaker 2: I mean over a couple of years, and it's going
Speaker 2: to get into six figures by the time that we
Speaker 2: buy the mowers and pay for the labor and all
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff, and it gets pretty expensive. I
Speaker 2: think we'll save a lot of save a lot of
Speaker 2: money if they do work out.
Speaker 1: So one question you've alluded to James, and for those
Speaker 1: that don't know, that's James Duncan. He's an associate for
Speaker 1: the Core Crenshaw team and a real driving force behind
Speaker 1: this project. Obviously, Bill and Ben have been heavily involved
Speaker 1: as well. I'm curious you come from Clear Creek, which
Speaker 1: is another Core and Crenshaw golf course. What's the approach,
Speaker 1: Ben like with them? You know, in the design process.
Speaker 1: Obviously the golf course is really coming to life? Now?
Speaker 1: How's that been working with it? As a superintendent who
Speaker 1: I imagine at Clearcreek it was a situation where you knew,
Speaker 1: you know, what the golf course was, but you weren't
Speaker 1: really part privy to the information that you're now getting
Speaker 1: at the growing stage. How's that, Ben?
Speaker 3: It's been awesome.
Speaker 2: So the main I mean, I mean Bill A couple
Speaker 2: of weeks ago he came out and we walked around
Speaker 2: the course. Mainly it was trying to figure out all
Speaker 2: the old where the fairway lines were, or where all
Speaker 2: the lines were, where all the grass was supposed to be.
Speaker 2: This past winter, with the rain at a lot of
Speaker 2: weeds came in on stuff that was previously finished. So
Speaker 2: since I got here, we were trying to mow stuff
Speaker 2: down and find some of those old lines and get
Speaker 2: them prepped so that we can do the grassing this year.
Speaker 2: But it was really cool to kind of see him
Speaker 2: work through a hole as we walked it and kind
Speaker 2: of did explain why this was here and the fairway
Speaker 2: came out to this side for this reason, and it
Speaker 2: was really cool to watch him in action and kind
Speaker 2: of re goo back through the entire golf course and
Speaker 2: explain why things were the way they were.
Speaker 1: I imagined it was just like kind of like a
Speaker 1: tour and you know, of like a class on golf
Speaker 1: architecture in a way.
Speaker 2: Right, it was a tour of a place that I've
Speaker 2: been working for two months, and then things that I
Speaker 2: had no idea were even out here.
Speaker 3: We're out here.
Speaker 2: There were some tea's that we found that got weeded
Speaker 2: out and I didn't know existed. But we made our
Speaker 2: way through and we're working working to find it back
Speaker 2: every day.
Speaker 1: Was there anything like is do you have a specific
Speaker 1: example of something that he explained that you otherwise may
Speaker 1: have not understood and maintained differently than you plan to now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, actually I have a good So the sixth hole,
Speaker 2: there's two fairway bunkers that are on the left side
Speaker 2: of the fairway. I thought they were in the middle
Speaker 2: of the of the fairway because there were a couple
Speaker 2: of heads that got put in that might not have
Speaker 2: been necessary to the left of those bunkers. So we
Speaker 2: were mowing it down and getting it ready to till
Speaker 2: we were mowing down below these bunkers. So the bunkers
Speaker 2: looked like they sat in the middle of the fairway
Speaker 2: whereas they should be on the left side of the fairway.
Speaker 3: So that was that was new to us.
Speaker 1: But the sheep just got a little bit extra.
Speaker 2: Room to rome exactly they'd we pushed them in and
Speaker 2: now we have a little bit, a little bit of
Speaker 2: an area for them.
Speaker 1: So you're at the springing phase with a lot of holes.
Speaker 1: You know, walk us through kind of what the next uh,
Speaker 1: what the next year looks like for brambles or hopefully
Speaker 1: looks like obviously you're you're kind of at the will
Speaker 1: of mother nature with a lot of stuff. But you
Speaker 1: know what, what kind of is it where you looking
Speaker 1: at the next year.
Speaker 2: So this year's fully grassing one hund and then a
Speaker 2: little bit of maintenance on the We have a couple
Speaker 2: of greens, teas and fairways that got grassed last year
Speaker 2: that are coming in really well. So it's the added
Speaker 2: maintenance on those, which is top dressing those greens and
Speaker 2: making sure as they fill in they're not getting too spongy,
Speaker 2: fertilizing that stuff, keeping pushing it through the summer when
Speaker 2: it's growing at its best, which the zoaser loves the heat,
Speaker 2: So we just got to keep pushing it, top dressing it,
Speaker 2: fertilizing it, getting those two as good as they can
Speaker 2: this summer, and then getting all the new stuff established
Speaker 2: and and really filling in. But we'd like to be
Speaker 2: fully grassed sometime in August. Hopefully by by mid August
Speaker 2: we have the entire golf course planted, and then the
Speaker 2: stuff that we're putting out early this summer should be
Speaker 2: should be pretty filled in as well as the stuff
Speaker 2: last year. And obviously the stuff that we put out
Speaker 2: this year is going to be the first stuff to
Speaker 2: fill in. But it's just a lot of a lot
Speaker 2: of grass going down, a lot of water, flying, a
Speaker 2: lot of fertilizers, flying a lot of a lot of
Speaker 2: area to take care of different ways as far as
Speaker 2: holes that we plant this week are going to be
Speaker 2: different than holes we plant in a month and how
Speaker 2: we maintain those. So there's a lot of a lot
Speaker 2: of juggling going on.
Speaker 1: So what when's the best grass growing time there? It
Speaker 1: gets really obviously very hot in the summer and it's
Speaker 1: very dry. When when is the ideal kind of time
Speaker 1: to grow grass for this summer.
Speaker 2: For for this grass, it's in the summer. It's when
Speaker 2: it's hot, hot and hot and sunny all the time.
Speaker 2: If it was if we were planning anything else, that
Speaker 2: would change. If we were doing cool seasons, it would change.
Speaker 2: But we've really been waiting for it to heat up.
Speaker 2: We get a couple couple of days where it's seventy
Speaker 2: five eighty and we get excited and stuff starts popping
Speaker 2: and we're getting amped up and ready to grow some grass.
Speaker 2: And then we get a snap in the sixties and
Speaker 2: kind of deflates us for a couple of days until
Speaker 2: it warms back up.
Speaker 3: But we're really waiting for it.
Speaker 2: We really wanted to get into that that hot, hot
Speaker 2: eighties nineties heat for us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, something that was illuminating. I was in San Francisco
Speaker 1: for a while and I made regular I made regular
Speaker 1: stops over to like we're said, to see their project.
Speaker 1: You guys were just too far away from me to
Speaker 1: make regular stops. A little too far. Hopefully I'll be
Speaker 1: out there in the near future. But the uh, the
Speaker 1: thing I noticed is, like I imagine this is part
Speaker 1: of it is in your role, is that if I
Speaker 1: went every if I went like two days in a row,
Speaker 1: or you know, a couple times in a week. If
Speaker 1: I just stopped by, it seemed like not a lot
Speaker 1: was going. But then if you don't go back for
Speaker 1: like ten days, you're like, wow, I can't believe how
Speaker 1: much stuff is half has happened since the last time
Speaker 1: I was here. Do you feel that way? Is it
Speaker 1: one of those things where day in day out it's
Speaker 1: kind of a grind and you feel like you're making
Speaker 1: no progress, But then when you think back to where
Speaker 1: you were a month ago, you're like, wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. I mean that's where pictures come in handy.
Speaker 2: I mean, I stand out on the eighth hole all
Speaker 2: the time because it's our best looking one, our most
Speaker 2: successful one right now, and I have to go back
Speaker 2: and flip through the picture I took on the first day,
Speaker 2: and it's it looks the same as it did in
Speaker 2: my head, but when you pull up the picture, it's
Speaker 2: a totally different, totally different hole, and it was still
Speaker 2: dormant back then. And the more you're here and you
Speaker 2: look at it every day, like you said, it doesn't
Speaker 2: seem to be doing a whole lot.
Speaker 3: But when you go back and.
Speaker 2: You look at those pictures and you kind of remind
Speaker 2: yourself what it was. It definitely is moving a lot
Speaker 2: faster than you think it is.
Speaker 1: With you talked about creating kind of like a family
Speaker 1: culture with a smaller staff. What types of things are
Speaker 1: you doing to try to foster that as a manager.
Speaker 2: Just getting everyone involved in different things and not trying
Speaker 2: to isolate people doing the same things all the time
Speaker 2: and working together. I mean, we don't have we're in
Speaker 2: that stage where we don't have a lot of individual.
Speaker 3: Projects to do.
Speaker 2: Everything's kind of all hands on deck and team oriented,
Speaker 2: so everyone works together all the time. No one's really
Speaker 2: out on an island sitting on a mower twenty four
Speaker 2: to seven. Everyone's just together and we I mean, we
Speaker 2: do lunches here every day. They do cost go runs
Speaker 2: and we cook lunches here for the guys every day,
Speaker 2: and everyone kind of gets along and everyone's together. But
Speaker 2: it's just the smaller it is, there's less chaos. I guess,
Speaker 2: there's less going on, and everyone knows what they're doing
Speaker 2: because there's only so many people here to do it.
Speaker 2: So I guess the answer would just be keeping everyone
Speaker 2: together and on the same page, which is easy to do.
Speaker 1: With smaller crews, who's has somebody kind of risen to
Speaker 1: the top as the is the chef of the of
Speaker 1: the group.
Speaker 3: It's a little bit different. Every day.
Speaker 2: When we are our irrigation crew, there's a team of
Speaker 2: four guys here that's been doing an awesome job. They
Speaker 2: have one more hole of irrigation to do, number seventeen,
Speaker 2: and then the range team, and they usually take They
Speaker 2: usually take the lead on the grill, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's gonna be interesting when they're when they're
Speaker 1: out of there. Who's gonna I'm curious how someone like
Speaker 1: you know, becomes it is. Are they gonna just are
Speaker 1: they gonna just say casually one day I could cook,
Speaker 1: I could cook today, and and then is it automatically
Speaker 1: accepted that they're the cook if they do a good job.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's like one of those things like
Speaker 1: you never want to play darts against the guy that
Speaker 1: says they've played a little bit of darts, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, yeah, I get.
Speaker 2: I mean it seemed because they were here by themselves
Speaker 2: all winter long, even before I got here, So they
Speaker 2: were it was just four guys here pretty much all year,
Speaker 2: all winter, four or five guys, so they cooked for themselves,
Speaker 2: and then as we started establishing ourselves and bringing in
Speaker 2: the golf maintenance crew, they just kind of held on
Speaker 2: to it.
Speaker 1: What's been the vibe of moving to Middleton? Obviously, you're
Speaker 1: you're just outside, You're in Lake County, you're just outside Napa.
Speaker 1: You your short drive, what's that been like for year?
Speaker 1: And your wife like, it's been a big adjustment.
Speaker 2: It has and it hasn't. We're both kind of we're
Speaker 2: not city people in the slightest, so Albuquerque was a
Speaker 2: big stretch for us. But we've really enjoyed it so far.
Speaker 2: It's it's nice, it's quiet. We come out usually after work,
Speaker 2: I'll go home and we'll get the dog and we'll
Speaker 2: come out and just walk a couple holes out here,
Speaker 2: and it's it's country living, which is what I'm used to.
Speaker 2: It's how I grew up in small towns. It's just
Speaker 2: on the other side of the country. So it's been
Speaker 2: really it's been really good to us.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. That's awesome. I can't wait to get up
Speaker 1: there and see it. You know, it's been a while,
Speaker 1: and I probably should send you some of the photos
Speaker 1: I took because I might have some of those grasping
Speaker 1: lines you're looking for.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, whenever you whenever you make it up, I'll
Speaker 2: show you some of the pictures that we have still
Speaker 2: we have to and kind of where things are going.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm excited to get out there, and you've probably
Speaker 1: got a million things to do. So I'm going to
Speaker 1: let you go and thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 1: How can people find you if they want, if they
Speaker 1: want to hear more about what you're doing you, if
Speaker 1: they're superintended, ask what I have questions about about your Zootia?
Speaker 1: How do they get get in touch with you?
Speaker 2: I'm on I mean, I'm on LinkedIn and that's pretty much.
Speaker 2: I'm on LinkedIn and I do have an Instagram. I
Speaker 2: don't really use it, but that's pretty That's pretty much yet.
Speaker 1: So well, we'll see you soon, And thanks so much
Speaker 1: for coming on, Tyler.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me. It was fun.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to our Superintendent series, and thank
Speaker 1: you to Tyler our first time. Today's episode was edited
Speaker 1: by the wonderful Meg Atkins. Thank you Meg. As a reminder,
Speaker 1: we are heading we're nearing another major championship, We've got
Speaker 1: some content up if you have not yet, we just
Speaker 1: released a really great video on Southern Hills in my
Speaker 1: mind to step up. We had Gil Hanson was in
Speaker 1: the video talking about Southern Hills and the unique challenges
Speaker 1: it will present. It is on YouTube, so you should
Speaker 1: go over there subscribe to our YouTube channel. It's just
Speaker 1: the Frida Egg. If you go to YouTube dot com
Speaker 1: backslash the Friday Egg, you'll find our YouTube page and
Speaker 1: there you should see the Southern Hills video front and center. Subscribe,
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Speaker 1: Friday with an episode about the twenty twenty one BGA