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Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're rocking

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Speaker 1: our big black boots and blasting the cure. It's Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: January twenty first, and on today's show, we'll be skipping

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Speaker 1: the need to know and getting straight to my conversation

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Speaker 1: with two gothletes.

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Speaker 2: That's a goth athlete if you didn't know.

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Speaker 1: Last week I got up with college beach volleyball player

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Speaker 1: Nora Hayde and former pro hooper and self described health

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Speaker 1: goth Caitlyn Cunningham aka Caitlin Dark to talk about the

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Speaker 1: attention they've received for their unique looks plus dream makeup, collapse,

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Speaker 1: turn of the sentry, pop punk and why it's.

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Speaker 2: Always a good idea to express your true self. It's

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Speaker 2: all coming up right after this joining us now.

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Speaker 1: She's a former pro hooper in Australia's wnbl who now

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Speaker 1: plays semi pro for the Rockhampton Cyclones in Eastern Australia.

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Speaker 1: Born in Melbourne, they played for Australia in the two

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Speaker 1: thousand and five Phoeba U nineteen World Championships. That have

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Speaker 1: spent the last twenty two years hoop and for a

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Speaker 1: variety of pro and semi pro teams in oz. A

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Speaker 1: musician and personal trainer, she's what's known as a health goth.

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Speaker 1: Last year, she was named one of out magazine's most

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Speaker 1: eligible bachelorex's and earned the nickname Caitlin Dark after going

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Speaker 1: viral on the internet. It's Kaitlyn Cunningham. Hi, Caitlin, Hellay,

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Speaker 1: thanks for being here.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. It's hectic when you run

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Speaker 3: through all the things that I've done and how long

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Speaker 3: I've been playing.

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Speaker 1: Basket Oh, we're going to get to that. We're going

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Speaker 1: to get to how long you've been hooping for also

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Speaker 1: with us, she's younger than both of us. She's a

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Speaker 1: junior beach volleyball player for Boise State. Born and raised

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Speaker 1: outside Seattle, she's the daughter of two artists and is

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Speaker 1: pursuing a visual arts major. Last season, her unique athlete

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Speaker 1: headshot made its way around the internet, where she's rock

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Speaker 1: and pink hair, multiple piercings, and goth makeup, and she

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Speaker 1: saw our social media follower count skyrocket. Her stunning Instagram

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Speaker 1: photos will make you want to embrace your dark side.

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Speaker 1: It's Nora Hayd Hi, Nora, Hey, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us. I'm so excited to talk to both of you. First,

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Speaker 1: I have some basic questions, Kaitlin. I have never heard

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Speaker 1: of a health goth. Can you explain it?

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Speaker 3: Obviously I love fashion and aesthetics, and years and years

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Speaker 3: and years ago, I would just go to the club

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Speaker 3: and be dressed head to toe in black, but I

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Speaker 3: would wear a lot of like sportswear, and I used

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Speaker 3: to everyone used to just nickname and I used to

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Speaker 3: call myself like the health goth, and then it kind

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Speaker 3: of went viral. I think it was like two thousand

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Speaker 3: and fourteen fifteen on the Internet there was a whole

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Speaker 3: wave of health goth fashion trends. So yeah, I feel

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Speaker 3: like I'm like the og health goth.

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Speaker 1: I kind of love it. When did you start dressing

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Speaker 1: goth in life?

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Speaker 3: When I was so young, probably around sixteen seventeen. Back

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Speaker 3: I was like, he's really problematic these days, But I

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Speaker 3: was obsessed with Marilyn Manson and bands like Corn and

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Speaker 3: New Metal and then like pop acts like Avil Levine,

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Speaker 3: the edgier type of ones, and that really inspired my look.

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Speaker 3: And obviously the MySpace wave and the real emo era

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Speaker 3: of the Internet, and from then I was always dressing

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Speaker 3: that alternate, black themed get up.

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Speaker 1: I am older than you, but relate to a lot

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Speaker 1: of that. Had a very sincere MySpace space. I actually

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Speaker 1: got a lot of dates out of my Space. People

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Speaker 1: don't know you could use it for that back in

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Speaker 1: the day. But my best friend growing up was like

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Speaker 1: kind of goth and so I was always listening to

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Speaker 1: Danzig and Marilyn meant to.

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Speaker 2: My first concert was nine h Nails.

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Speaker 3: Yes so good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, back in the day it was adjacent to the world.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't in it, but I was adjacent. When did

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Speaker 1: you start incorporating that look into basketball or did you

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Speaker 1: always sort of do it for your games as well?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've always done it, So it's so bizarre that

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Speaker 3: obviously last year all the photos went viral. When you

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Speaker 3: ask anyone in Australia who's followed sports, who's known who

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Speaker 3: I am, they've always known me as like the goth basketballer,

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Speaker 3: so pretty much since I like hit the court as

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Speaker 3: a professional player back in my teenage years.

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Speaker 2: That's awesome.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Norah, you've said you don't always describe yourself as goth,

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Speaker 1: but you've embraced it. You're fine with being called a gothleete,

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Speaker 1: which is also a term I've never heard in love

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Speaker 1: very much, so you partly like it because you can

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Speaker 1: use the attention for good. How do you describe your

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Speaker 1: look and how long have you been rocketed?

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Speaker 4: I think same, Like sixteen seventeen is when I started

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Speaker 4: to like experiment, like with makeup. But my mom has

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Speaker 4: always been like super alternative, so she kind of helped

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Speaker 4: speed that along a little bit.

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Speaker 2: What do you have in terms of piercings? How many

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Speaker 2: do you have?

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Speaker 4: I just have these five on my face, and then

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Speaker 4: I have two in both ears. But I had dimples,

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Speaker 4: I had a bridge. Those didn't work out, But that's.

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Speaker 2: What do you mean? Didn't work out?

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Speaker 4: They just didn't want to heal?

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Speaker 2: Oh did Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I remember seeing the dimples, So those were in kind

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Speaker 1: of your cheeks, and then the bridge was in.

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Speaker 2: Your eyebrow right here? Yeah, oh, like in your nose. Okay,

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Speaker 2: in the bridge of your nose.

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Speaker 1: So you've got five kind of under your nose or

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Speaker 1: where are the five that you have on your face

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Speaker 1: right now?

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Speaker 4: Each side of my nose, my septum and then both eyebrows. Okay,

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Speaker 4: but I think I'm done with piercings. Moving on to tattoos.

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Speaker 4: Definitely want sleeves.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I'm afraid of piercings. I don't only get tattoos.

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Speaker 1: How many tattoos do you have, Caitlin, Oh, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but I haven't had any for a long I started

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Speaker 1: really really young, like eighteen, so a lot of them

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Speaker 1: are very, very cringe regretful tattoos.

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Speaker 3: So I've like, don't want to make any more bad

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Speaker 3: decisions for my skin.

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Speaker 2: What are your favorites that you still have? Do you

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Speaker 2: have any that you like?

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Speaker 3: I do? I have this one that I drew and

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Speaker 3: it's like this little stick figure on the internet and

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Speaker 3: then the tattoo artists went over it. That's one of

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Speaker 3: my favorite. And then there's just it would be another

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Speaker 3: conversation to go through my tattoos, to be honest, go.

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Speaker 2: Through all of them.

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Speaker 1: What about the fangs? Tell me about you've got fangs?

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Speaker 2: Are they? How did they work?

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Speaker 3: So? My fan, my childhood dentist, I just went in

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Speaker 3: one day when I had to check up, and my

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Speaker 3: teeth perfectly straight across, and I asked him if he

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Speaker 3: could build my teeth down to make them more the

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Speaker 3: canines more outstanding, and they're just if you chip your

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Speaker 3: tooth in sport or falling over. It's what they would

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Speaker 3: build the tooth back up with. So if I had

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Speaker 3: to get it removed, i'd just be shaved back. But

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Speaker 3: they're fixed and they're now my teeth.

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Speaker 1: So it's more something similar to tooth material that's been

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Speaker 1: added on to your original tooth. But it's just like

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Speaker 1: you can chew and bite and do all the things.

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Speaker 3: They're perfectly normal. I've had them for years. It's just

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Speaker 3: like my they're my regular teeth now. I just think

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Speaker 3: makes my smile a little bit more charming.

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Speaker 2: Has your dentist gotten that request many times?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: No, I wouldn't imagine.

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Speaker 3: It's in a conservative area and he's like very it's

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Speaker 3: very conservative dentist and he's a bit of a kook himself.

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Speaker 3: So I made his day when I asked for it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I bet something new to try to challenge himself with.

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Speaker 2: How long does it take you to get ready?

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Speaker 1: Maybe for like not a huge event, but not every day,

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Speaker 1: like maybe just when you want to when you want

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Speaker 1: to look good, Kaitlin.

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Speaker 3: I am so quick at putting on makeup. It's one

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Speaker 3: of those things that when you've been wearing makeup or

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Speaker 3: you've got an aesthetic that is so you. It becomes

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Speaker 3: an extension of your personality. It's not really a long

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Speaker 3: thing for me to do. It's just pretty much slap

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Speaker 3: it on and off I go, like five minutes.

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Speaker 1: What about you, Nora, because I feel like yours is

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Speaker 1: pretty detailed, especially like I mentioned your Instagram photos, especially

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Speaker 1: the ones out in nature are so gorgeous. That looks

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Speaker 1: pretty involved and very specific with the dots that have

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Speaker 1: to be the right size and everything.

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Speaker 4: For sure, for sure, I like transition through all like

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Speaker 4: the different I guess substyles of goth and like I'd

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Speaker 4: really like to do like intricate stuff. And yeah, it

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Speaker 4: can take me up to like two hours, but like

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Speaker 4: something like this, like fifteen twenty minutes. But I just

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Speaker 4: I really enjoy the process.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so the everyday look is easy?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay.

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Speaker 1: So after your photo was liked like fifteen million plus

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Speaker 1: times on Twitter, you got a line of merch at

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Speaker 1: the Nil store. You ended up with the band a

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Speaker 1: simple plan giving them a volleyball lesson, which I loved,

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Speaker 1: and I imagine some companies came calling for Nil deals too, Right,

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Speaker 1: So what was some of the craziest stuff that happened?

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Speaker 2: After that athlete photo went viral.

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Speaker 4: I think just the craziest thing was, Yeah, all the

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Speaker 4: companies like contacting me like immediately. Some of the gifts

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Speaker 4: were just like so random and they're like normal, try this,

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Speaker 4: like nothing in return, which was so crazy, and then

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Speaker 4: Liquid Death Sponsor, super grateful for them.

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Speaker 3: They've been amazing.

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Speaker 1: That's such a smart combo. I also we love getting

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Speaker 1: free things. We love that you also seem to have

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Speaker 1: a sense of humor about it. You posed with a

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Speaker 1: volleyball under your jersey like you were pregnant, and then

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Speaker 1: took a photo with your teammate embracing you instaid expecting

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Speaker 1: a great season.

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Speaker 2: Do you find that like you always have been.

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Speaker 1: Able to be playful about it or were you ever

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Speaker 1: insecure about being different?

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Speaker 4: I think probably first when I got here to college

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Speaker 4: my freshman year, I was a little more shy. Every

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Speaker 4: year slowly more and more out of my shell. But

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Speaker 4: definitely going viral was like kind of a big confidence boost.

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Speaker 4: I'd like fell less alone and like seen and understood better.

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Speaker 2: Were most of the comments positive that you got that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Most of them?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Because Kaitlyn, I know you blew up online last

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Speaker 1: summer photos view in a game went viral. You mentioned

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Speaker 1: that everyone in Australia was like, yeah, yeah, we know her.

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Speaker 1: But the whole Kitlyn Dark thing. You went from like

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Speaker 1: two hundred followers to sixty thousand plus. You walked in

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Speaker 1: New York Fashion Week, you earned those aforementioned honors from

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Speaker 1: Out magazine. What other cool opportunities came your way from

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Speaker 1: that moment?

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Speaker 3: It's been very random and weird, Like Nora said, like

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Speaker 3: the people reaching out and brands like that, some of

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Speaker 3: them a bon company reached down and I was like,

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Speaker 3: I'm not a stone, not.

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Speaker 2: Like just like kind of health guard.

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Speaker 3: Come on, we like, but it's yeah, Nike. I've done

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Speaker 3: a little campaign with Nike and things like that. So

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Speaker 3: that's always when you're young and playing basketball, you always

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Speaker 3: have your favorite sneakers and stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, Nike's a big one for sure.

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Speaker 3: But the New York Fashion Week walking, and I'll be

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Speaker 3: going back to in February to do some more shows

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Speaker 3: is just crazy. And then I was in Paris and

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Speaker 3: I was meant to walk for Rick Owens and I

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Speaker 3: didn't fit into the shoes.

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Speaker 2: Because my foot's so big.

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Speaker 3: So just like I would have never thought this time

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Speaker 3: last year that I would have been in the same

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Speaker 3: hemisphere as these big designers and doing some of the

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Speaker 3: things that I've been doing. And then on top of that,

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Speaker 3: I've always been a musician too, so trying to like,

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Speaker 3: now I've got people who listen to my music. It's

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Speaker 3: just wild.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, speaking of your big feet, y'all are tall, like

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Speaker 1: Caitlin six four Nora six to one, so you're like

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Speaker 1: standing out even before the makeup.

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Speaker 2: But Kaitlin, I also loved that you said that almost every.

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Speaker 1: Comment you got was positive, Like, yeah, yeah, it.

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Speaker 2: Was so weird to go viral and have everyone be nice.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, everyone was so nice, and everyone still is so nice.

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Speaker 3: I feel it's so many pockets of subcultures. So I've

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Speaker 3: got a lot of young boys who love rap and

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Speaker 3: I aesthetic and my swag which is so cute and

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Speaker 3: so brilliant, and that they have a role model that's

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Speaker 3: like a non binary fit, like a female basketball athlete.

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Speaker 3: And then like obviously the queer community kind of took

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Speaker 3: a blaze to it as well. That's like overwhelming, But yeah,

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Speaker 3: everyone's comments and like the recognition has been really positive.

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Speaker 1: We got to take a break more with Caitlin and

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Speaker 1: Nora right after this. Nora, your season starts in the

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Speaker 1: end of February. Do you have any big goals for

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Speaker 1: this year?

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Speaker 4: We just joined the Big twelve Conference, so like completely

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Speaker 4: new field, so I guess just kill it, see how.

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Speaker 2: Far we can go. I love that goal. Kill it.

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Speaker 2: So that's a good one, Caitlin.

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Speaker 1: It looks like the next NBL one North season starts

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Speaker 1: in April, just like think again, would be twenty third

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Speaker 1: year of pro or semi pro?

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Speaker 2: Is that right?

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Speaker 3: Oh my god? Is that how long I've been playing?

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Speaker 3: I believe so good grief. See. I retired at twenty six.

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Speaker 3: And then it's kind of a I've always had had

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Speaker 3: talent as a basketball and I committed to it from

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Speaker 3: sixteen to twenty six and played the highest professional leagues

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Speaker 3: all in Australia and for Australia, and then I kind

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Speaker 3: of stepped away to pursue music and all my creative pursuits.

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Speaker 3: COVID obviously happened. Our country was in pretty big lockdown,

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Speaker 3: so the league started up and we had rules with

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Speaker 3: no imports allowed into the league. So then all these

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Speaker 3: coaches were scrambling for players, and I had some agents

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Speaker 3: and managers contact me and we're like, would you want

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Speaker 3: to play basketball? And I was like, I'm in Melbourne lockdown.

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Speaker 3: Of course I'll sign a contract to Queensland. Yeah. So

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Speaker 3: I signed, played and kind of wiped the floor and

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Speaker 3: everyone's like, whoa, where have you been? What have you

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Speaker 3: been doing? And I was like, I've just been not

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Speaker 3: wanting to play. So then yeah, every season teams offer

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Speaker 3: short term contracts, maybe to help and tell import arrives

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Speaker 3: or whatnot. So if they catch me on a good day,

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Speaker 3: I'll say yes to a contract and often get flown

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Speaker 3: back and forth to play. So I'm undecided of if

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Speaker 3: I'll do it this year, but most likely will. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You got to give the people what they want.

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Speaker 1: Now that everyone in the world has discovered Keitlan Dark,

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Speaker 1: you can't take it away immediately.

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Speaker 2: You got to give us some more highlights.

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Speaker 3: And everyone's like, would you just commit full time to

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Speaker 3: basketball and try playing the WNBA And I'm like, oh

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Speaker 3: my god, I'm like forty literally, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't recommend that. I think, yeah, that might be

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Speaker 2: a step two for him. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, Nora, I read an interview that you did with

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Speaker 1: The Today Show and you said, I think the idea

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Speaker 1: that comes out of this is just to unapologetically be yourself.

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Speaker 1: It almost hurt me more to try and fit in.

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Speaker 1: I love that commentary. Can you share more about that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so I feel like Seattle, I was a little

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Speaker 4: more comfortable there. I think that's where I picked up

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Speaker 4: a lot of my style. And then moving so far

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Speaker 4: out here in Boise, this little oasis in Idaho was

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Speaker 4: like scary, but I just I couldn't not be myself.

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Speaker 2: I feel like that was.

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Speaker 4: Not even an option.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Did you ever worry about whether how you presented yourself

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Speaker 1: would affect like recruiting and stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 4: But the reason why I love this place was because

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Speaker 4: of the people that recruited me, the coaches that just

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Speaker 4: since day one been right with me.

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Speaker 1: I watched a TikTok about your team. I think there's

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Speaker 1: like eleven girls name Ashley. That's an exaggeration, but it's

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's like a whole team of beautiful white

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Speaker 1: blonde slash light brown haired people named like Kelly and Ashley.

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Speaker 2: How have they been with incorporating you into the mix.

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Speaker 4: They're super excited for me, and like, also, my popularity

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Speaker 4: has brought them popularity too. And yeah, I feel like

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Speaker 4: our team does the best job with like reaching out

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Speaker 4: to companies and like utilizing like nil.

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Speaker 2: For how new it is. Yeah, that's great, Caitlin. What

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Speaker 2: about you.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever had teammates or coaches, maybe especially when

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Speaker 1: you were in the national team, who questioned your focus

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Speaker 1: or maybe your dedication to hoops because of your look.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so real. I think Australia isn't our population

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Speaker 3: isn't as dense as somewhere like America, so I feel

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Speaker 3: you really stand out and it rubs people the wrong way.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what it does for them or what

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Speaker 3: a triggers for them, but it can be conflicting. And

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Speaker 3: I found that politically, the choices some coaches have made

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Speaker 3: have been against me just because my esthetic, and they

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Speaker 3: put that esthetic into maybe like I don't work as hard,

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Speaker 3: or I'm focused somewhere else other than the basketball or

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Speaker 3: what I'm doing on the court. So it has been

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Speaker 3: at times a bit rough. You feel a bit like

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Speaker 3: an outsider, I think, just because people aren't as open

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Speaker 3: minded as somewhere like America. But in saying that, I've

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Speaker 3: never had teammates that dislike me. We have a goal

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Speaker 3: in a team and that brings a community and love

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Speaker 3: for one another, and you end up having like ten

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Speaker 3: sisters in a team, like the bond is different. And

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Speaker 3: I've always been accepted by teammates and that, so that's

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Speaker 3: been really beautiful. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean I kind of understand it from a coach's perspective.

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Speaker 1: They're looking at you and they're like, this person might

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Speaker 1: be an anarchist.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like might not for all the rules.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah. I remember I would always wear black

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Speaker 3: socks and I had this one coach that was like,

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Speaker 3: you cannot wear black socks, And I was like, what

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Speaker 3: so I just had to wear black shoes and white socks,

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Speaker 3: which wasn't a good look. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, that's not the aesthetic you're going for.

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Speaker 1: You know. You've also talked about being able to sort

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Speaker 1: of empower folks to be themselves and express themselves in

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Speaker 1: whatever way feels best, including those who feel like team

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Speaker 1: sports might not be the place for them because they

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Speaker 1: don't see folks that.

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Speaker 2: Look like them.

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Speaker 1: You said in an interview, we should all be able

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Speaker 1: to have that privilege to feel comfortable in a space,

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Speaker 1: whatever we're doing. Did you ever feel like you had

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Speaker 1: to pick, like when you were really playing for the

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Speaker 1: national team in big time tournaments. Was there ever an

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Speaker 1: ask of you to tone it down or.

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Speaker 2: To not Oh, you dress the way you do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would be so self conscious of how I

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Speaker 3: was presenting. I would often play when I was playing

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Speaker 3: for Australia in white sox, white shoes. I think I

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Speaker 3: even had I went through a stage where I had

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Speaker 3: peroxide blonde hair because I just wanted to fit in

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Speaker 3: and look like an Australian basketballer that I'd seen growing up.

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Speaker 3: There was no one who I looked at like myself

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Speaker 3: where I was like, that's.

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Speaker 2: So Lauren Jackson basically exactly.

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Speaker 3: Exactly so yeah, and that's kind of what I would

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Speaker 3: base like how I thought I needed to be perceived.

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Speaker 3: But I felt so uncomfortable all the time, and I

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Speaker 3: was like, I just give up. I can't do this,

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Speaker 3: this fake vibe of mine.

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't know if you know her, but I

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Speaker 1: feel like, you know, whatever Liz Cambi's ribes, she probably

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Speaker 1: took some pressure off you.

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Speaker 2: Yes, everyone was too busy dealing.

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Speaker 3: It was one of my best friends, So there you go.

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Speaker 3: I think we get put into the same category a

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Speaker 3: lot together, and everyone like I rolls with me and Lizzie.

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Speaker 1: So, but that's interesting. You don't strike me as someone

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Speaker 1: who might punch people midgame there.

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Speaker 3: No, I know, I'm very I don't even know what's

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Speaker 3: going on. All I care about is like the sport

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Speaker 3: and the winning and the game.

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Speaker 2: We got to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned being a part of lots of subcultures, Caitlin.

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Speaker 1: It feels like the reason there was so much attention

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Speaker 1: on you is people aren't used to seeing that or

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Speaker 1: those subcultures overlap with the sports, right the goth and

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Speaker 1: the sports. Have you heard from other athletes, even if

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Speaker 1: they're not goth, about realizing that sports can be more

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Speaker 1: expansive than what maybe has always been assumed.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we mentioned Lauren Jackson. She's a bit older than me,

403
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,760
Speaker 3: and she was always a role model, and she messaged

404
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,520
Speaker 3: me like she's messaged me a couple of times in

405
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Speaker 3: the past, reaching out saying like you've always been you.

406
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 3: I'm so proud of, like how you've held yourself. And

407
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,520
Speaker 3: because she loved Marilyn Mantzon and I guess she saw

408
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,200
Speaker 3: she would always say I was like a kid's sister.

409
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Speaker 3: So I feel like ed is good to see the

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Speaker 3: older athletes kind of see someone who really is true

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Speaker 3: to themselves. And I think a lot of the young

412
00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 3: people who come and are like my fans. The young

413
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,200
Speaker 3: girls that come to the game are really different, so

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Speaker 3: they resonate with my look and it's so cute to

415
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Speaker 3: see that these people are opening their mind to Yeah,

416
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Speaker 3: they love sport, they can play sport, but I can

417
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Speaker 3: also be myself. I can listen to music, I want

418
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Speaker 3: to listen to dress the way I want and still

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Speaker 3: be part of a team.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Norah, what do you want to do in the

421
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 1: visual arts field? Does your expression of self sort of

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Speaker 1: intersect with the things you're interested in the art world?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, And like not sure career wise where

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Speaker 4: this will leave me. I think I'm in my junior year,

425
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 4: so I'll find out a lot of that, like actually

426
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 4: this semester. But yeah, I'm still in like upper division classes,

427
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 4: still trying to figure it out. But I'm a painting

428
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Speaker 4: and drawing emphasis, so I feel like that well correlates

429
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Speaker 4: to like the precision makeup that I do.

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Speaker 2: Have you guys heard about each other?

431
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Speaker 1: Caitlin, have you ever heard about the goth Beach Volleyball

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Speaker 1: player in America.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I've seen Nora. I think when you first

434
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 3: said to pop off, I was like, whoa, this is

435
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 3: so lit, so cool. You're such an icon, Nora.

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Speaker 2: What about you? Did you hear about Caitlin when she

437
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 2: blew up?

438
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Speaker 4: For sure?

439
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:24,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

440
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 4: I had a lot of like random people sending me

441
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,120
Speaker 4: like your stuff and like how you were going viral too,

442
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,679
Speaker 4: and how it's really inspiring and we're multiplying.

443
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:37,400
Speaker 2: There's more of.

444
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 3: Us now, yeah, Ugin, that's right.

445
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 1: We need a collab sometime. We need to figure out,

446
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 1: you know, maybe when Caitlyn's in New York. We got

447
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,679
Speaker 1: to figure out how to get a get Nora in

448
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 1: that in that fashion week stuff too.

449
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 2: As we can get a collab, that'd be cool.

450
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, for real, that would be so cool, Caitlyn.

451
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,479
Speaker 1: You know, I imagine you mentioned your music. The attention

452
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 1: has probably brought some new fans. Can you tell us

453
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 1: about the Bandjarine and I think you might have a

454
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: solo or something.

455
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 3: I've always been in bands. I've had like a goth

456
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 3: industrial band similar to Nine Nails, you could say, and

457
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:15,399
Speaker 3: then I have a punk pop, more commercially band which

458
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,479
Speaker 3: is led by me and another singer of both Queer People,

459
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 3: so it's a queer pop punk band. And then last

460
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 3: year I started working on solo music. I go under

461
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 3: the artist named Catle for that, and that is a

462
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 3: blend of I wouldn't even know how to. It's a

463
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 3: new genre I feel like I've created. But I'm finishing

464
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 3: up that EP and that should be out in the

465
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,879
Speaker 3: next month or two, and that's really exciting to finally

466
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 3: get that solo project out.

467
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 2: So Catle c Ai t l E. And then the

468
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 2: other bands.

469
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 3: Are Free Entertainment, the queer pop punk band, and then

470
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 3: my gothy kind of band that's been left on the

471
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 3: wayside for a while is called a Island Sisters.

472
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: Okay, well, folks can look them all up and see

473
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 1: if they're into it. Nor do you have any dream

474
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 1: collabse for your last year or two of college. Any

475
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,640
Speaker 1: brands you hope are listening to this that might reach out.

476
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 4: I've tried to go after like Demonia's I love my Demonias.

477
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 4: Also like NYX professional makeup. I've been really trying to

478
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,440
Speaker 4: get a makeup deal. I feel like that's a big

479
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 4: part of.

480
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 2: Like my look.

481
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 1: So duh, yeah, what are Demonias?

482
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 2: I'm not cool enough.

483
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 4: They're like goth shoes, like platforms and heels.

484
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 2: Oh okay, cool.

485
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: I do have platforms, Doc Martins that are like kind of.

486
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 2: Gothy, so maybe some somewhat similar.

487
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 3: It's like New Rock and Demonias are like the cool

488
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 3: goth shoes. Cool.

489
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 2: Okay.

490
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: That actually brings me to our final thing. It's a

491
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: speed round. So Caitlin favorite makeup brand?

492
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 3: Uh? I really love Cat Bonde.

493
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 2: Okay, Cat Bonde.

494
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

495
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 2: What about you, Nora? N my ex professional Okay, look

496
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 2: at you. You're already on brand for your big partnership.

497
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: Caitlin, Do you have a makeup inspiration, like a character

498
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: or a celebrity that you remember from growing up that

499
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 1: inspired you.

500
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 3: I hate to say it, but it was Marilyn Manson.

501
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 2: It's okay.

502
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 1: We all act on the things we know at any

503
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 1: given time, and then we grow and evolve and change

504
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: our opinions.

505
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 2: But you didn't know at the time. So what about you, Nora?

506
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 4: Mostly like my best friend and also like inanimate objects,

507
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 4: like just cool patterns I'll see in nature and like,

508
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 4: that's like my reference.

509
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 2: That's so cool.

510
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 1: Who takes all those photos of you on your Instagram?

511
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: Do you have a friend that's a photographer. Yeah, my

512
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: best friend. Sometimes it's my mom, sometimes it's my boyfriend.

513
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: They're really amazing. Okay, this is a big one. I'm

514
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 1: stealing this. If you have a good answer. What's your

515
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: go to makeup remover?

516
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 3: Caitlin, I am so bad. I just get in the

517
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 3: shower and washed with my face wash and just like,

518
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 3: but my makeup kind of just rolls over to the

519
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 3: next day.

520
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 2: You know.

521
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 1: I watched it Get Ready with Me video of you,

522
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: and I was like, but she already has a whole

523
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: bunch of eye on.

524
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 2: And I was like, I think it's just left over.

525
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, just always it makes for their steady if.

526
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 1: Everyone's listening, don't listen to them about that. It's not

527
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 1: a good idea for you know, health and wellness to

528
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: just roll over your eye makeup year after year.

529
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 2: Get a good get a good makeup remover? What about you, Nora?

530
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 4: I actually stopped using makeup remover. I use like coconut

531
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 4: oil now because it's the same like oil and like,

532
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 4: you'll look crazy for a second, but then it just

533
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 4: comes right off.

534
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 2: So I try that tip.

535
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, And then from each of you, just one

536
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: last message or maybe folks, who are listening, who might

537
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: be nervous about standing out or expressing themselves differently.

538
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 2: What would you say to them, Nora.

539
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,719
Speaker 4: I'd probably say, just like, don't think about it, Like

540
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 4: just go out there and play your sport, like put

541
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 4: on your makeup, feel powerful, and then just focus on

542
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 4: the sport like you're there to play. Yeah, don't lose talent.

543
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 4: I feel like I'm so happy I can like inspire

544
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 4: people because I always think about like all the talent

545
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 4: that's lost and like people that get discouraged so easily.

546
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, so just keep.

547
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 4: Going after it, lean on your support, and really listen

548
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 4: to them.

549
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 2: I love that. What about you, Caitlin, Yeah.

550
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 3: Similar to Nora. I mean, be real. It's more painful

551
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 3: to not be yourself. Be the magnet that'll come to you.

552
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 3: Your friends will find you, people will respect you how

553
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 3: you look and how you train and play at different categories.

554
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 3: But you just have to deal with it and like

555
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 3: blend it in together and be you at the end

556
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 3: of the day.

557
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 2: I love that. I saw this quote the other day

558
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 2: that just really stuck with me.

559
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: It was if you're an ocean, be an ocean, don't

560
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: be a pond, because they can't swim and I was.

561
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 2: Like, yes, I love that.

562
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: Well, you guys are so fun and I love the

563
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: example you're setting for nonconformity in sport.

564
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 2: I think we need more of it.

565
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 1: The more inclusive, the wider than that, the more people

566
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 1: that get a chance to play and participate, the more

567
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 1: people will benefit from all the good stuff that comes

568
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: out of moving your body and playing and competing.

569
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 2: So thanks for being a great example of that, Caitlin.

570
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 2: Thanks for waking up so damn early in oz A

571
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 2: Norah mid season. So appreciate it.

572
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: And if you guys hook up in New York or

573
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: otherwise and do a collab, you better be letting me

574
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: know because I want.

575
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 2: To witness it.

576
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, real for sure.

577
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: Thanks again to Kaitlin and Nora for taking the time.

578
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: We got to take another break when we come back

579
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: getting stopped short of one finish line while surging past another.

580
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 2: Welcome back Slices.

581
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 1: We love that you're listening, but we want you to

582
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: get in the game every day too, So here's our

583
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: good game play of the day. Today's guests, Caitlin and

584
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: Nora are particularly good follows on Instagram. You could check

585
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: out Nora's beautiful photos and her latest fits at Nora

586
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: dot Rose fourteen and Caitlyn Swoops content and upcoming solo

587
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: EP at Catlepillar. That's c a I t l E

588
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: p I l l a R like Caterpillar. We always

589
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Hit us up on email,

590
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: good game at Wondermedia network dot com or leave us

591
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: a voicemail at eight seven two two oh four fifty

592
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: seventy and don't forget to subscribe.

593
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 2: Rate and review, y'all.

594
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: I tell you every show it's real easy watch getting

595
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: death threats for raising money for women's rights rating zero

596
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: out of zero stars.

597
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 2: Absolutely hate this review.

598
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: A British ultrarunner named Sarah Porter had to be removed

599
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: midway through the one hundred and eight mile Montane Winter

600
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: Spine Challenger set race for safety reasons after she received

601
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: death threats due to her fundraising for Afghan women and

602
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: girls in war zones. Porter is the founder and CEO

603
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: of Inspired Minds, an AI technology company that lobbies for

604
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: technology to be used in a positive democratic way in

605
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: low to middle income countries. Per a story from Irunfar

606
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: dot com, Porter told race organizers quote, I've seen that

607
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: this is called Britain's most brutal race, and given the

608
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: brutality that's happening to women around the world and the

609
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: work that we do.

610
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: It feels so appropriate. End quote.

611
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: The story goes on quote she observed that it drew

612
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: many parallels to the pain, endurance and resilience that women

613
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: are suffering under oppression.

614
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 2: End quote.

615
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: Porter and her security team had deemed it safe to

616
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: run in the race despite having received threats, but she

617
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: was nearly a third of the way in when organizers

618
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: disabled her tracking device and removed her from the course.

619
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: Porter said to the Guardian, quote, my immediate feeling was

620
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: just one of shame.

621
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 2: Really.

622
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: I was very emotional, just born from the perspective that

623
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: I really felt like I'd let down the girls that

624
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: I was running for, and I'd really kind of got

625
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: this narrative in my head and psyched myself up that

626
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: what I was doing was just so insignificant in comparison

627
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: to what they're enduring.

628
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 2: End quote.

629
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: Porter's GoFundMe is still up and receiving lots of donations,

630
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: which is great. If you want a supporter, we'll link

631
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: to it in the show notes. Now it's your turn,

632
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: rate and review. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow. Good Game,

633
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:21,479
Speaker 1: Nora and Caitlin. Good Game waterproof eyeliner, but also fuck you.

634
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: Waterproof eyeliner just won't come off no matter how much

635
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: you scrub. Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart

636
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.

637
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

638
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,

639
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: our producers are Alex Azzi and Bianca Hillier. Our executive

640
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder.

641
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: Our editors are Emily Rutterer, Lucy Jones, Britney Martinez, and

642
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: Gianna Palmer. Production assistants from Avery Loftus and I'm Your

643
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: Host Sarah Spain