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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abuse the

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Speaker 2: power that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight.

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Speaker 1: Or shoot us an email at trust Me pod at

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Speaker 1: gmail dot com.

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Speaker 3: Trust Me, Trust trust Me. I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 3: I've never lied to you.

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Speaker 2: I never live If you think that one person has

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Speaker 2: all the answers, don't.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to trust Me.

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Speaker 2: The podcast about cults, extreme belief and manipulation from two

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Speaker 2: demons who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 4: I'm Lo La Blanc.

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Speaker 1: And I'm Megan Elizabeth And.

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Speaker 2: Today's part one of our two part interview with Uriah Westman.

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Speaker 2: He is the creator of a one man show called

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Speaker 2: Three Cults Walk into a Bar, and he is a

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Speaker 2: former member of you Guessed It, Three different cults. So

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Speaker 2: in part one today he is going to tell us

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Speaker 2: about the first one that he grew up in church

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Speaker 2: Universal and Triumphant, the group's combination of Christianity and New

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Speaker 2: Age ideas, and how much he believed and some of

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Speaker 2: the beliefs and rituals around demons.

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Speaker 1: He'll also tell us about the constant demon paranoia in

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Speaker 1: the church, his family, and his own mind, how his

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Speaker 1: mom's mental health began to deteriorate, leading her to accuse

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Speaker 1: his own father of being a demon, and his parents

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Speaker 1: split that led him to cult number two, which we

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Speaker 1: will talk about next week.

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Speaker 2: Yes, there's so much to get into with Uryah. I

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Speaker 2: am so stoked that he came on the podcast to

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Speaker 2: tell us all about this because I feel like he

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Speaker 2: just hits every every type of cold to every type

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Speaker 2: of cultic thinking in his story and it's really really fascinating.

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Speaker 1: Also, great show.

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Speaker 4: You should go show.

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Speaker 1: If you ever get the chance, you should definitely go.

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Speaker 2: It's he's doing it about every month, I think in

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Speaker 2: Los Angeles. But before we start talking to Uriah Megan,

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Speaker 2: I must know, Okay, what's your cultist thing?

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Speaker 1: So my cultiest thing of the week was just kind

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Speaker 1: of sitting with Uriah's experience and looking deeper into let's

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Speaker 1: call it, for lack of a better word, what's kind

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Speaker 1: of in the zeitguys cult hopping, you know, the tendency

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Speaker 1: to find yourself in a new cult, and there's a

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Speaker 1: million reasons for it. You know, you're used to somebody

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Speaker 1: having authority, which feels good because they give you certainty.

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Speaker 1: We're drawn into familiar dynamics, and do you feel special

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Speaker 1: and chosen and part of a higher truth. There's just

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Speaker 1: so many things, but it got me thinking about how

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Speaker 1: I think the main one is just that sense of

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Speaker 1: a little bit of control. And you really went through that,

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Speaker 1: I think with your OCD therapy. You did a really

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Speaker 1: specialized therapy and I'm just wondering how you let go

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Speaker 1: a little bit of control and if you think that's

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Speaker 1: also the main reason people find themselves back and also

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Speaker 1: just the unconscious minds, you know, always going to repeat

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Speaker 1: terrible patterns to try to fix it. Anyway, what do

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Speaker 1: you think about that?

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Speaker 4: I love that question.

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Speaker 2: How I like overcame that need for constant control?

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Speaker 3: Is that? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Because I do you agree that that's probably if we

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Speaker 1: had to pick up main one. What really draws people

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Speaker 1: back in is that authority figure or you know, it

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Speaker 1: can be something as innocuous as like a financial guru

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Speaker 1: or a wellnessed person He's like, listen, you guys, I

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Speaker 1: crack the code and you can get just kind of

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Speaker 1: rest easy and like.

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Speaker 2: Who, yes, I answer figure it out certainty.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I think that's a huge part of it.

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Speaker 2: And I think there's a lot of conversation around the

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Speaker 2: need for community with colds, but I do think that

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Speaker 2: a need for a sense of control and safety in

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Speaker 2: the world is like a huge, huge part of I

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Speaker 2: mean we've talked about this a million times obviously, but

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Speaker 2: for me, yes, definitely. And it is so interesting that overlap,

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Speaker 2: which I'm sure our listeners are sick of hearing about at.

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Speaker 4: This point, with those of the stuff.

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Speaker 2: But I will say, like it is a skill that

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Speaker 2: you have to learn to accept that you can't control

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Speaker 2: the thing. Like I had to literally like rewire my

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Speaker 2: brain to be like, Okay, if I have a psychotic.

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Speaker 4: Break right now, so be it.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, if I can't control that, I will just

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Speaker 2: have to accept that, you know, and like it's really

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Speaker 2: really hard work. But I do think it was such

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Speaker 2: an important skill to have just as a human being.

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Speaker 2: I wish that there was more of that skill sort

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Speaker 2: of built into other kinds of mental health programs, you

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Speaker 2: know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, I mean, did you just have to live with

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Speaker 1: like a constant sense of terror for a while?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's not like it's so weird because it's

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Speaker 2: like what you do in OCD is typically like the

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Speaker 2: like unhealthy thing that you're doing is thoughts oppression, right,

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Speaker 2: So you have to kind of run toward the thoughts

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Speaker 2: and allow them to be there. But it's a really

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Speaker 2: fine line between like allowing them to be there and

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Speaker 2: kind of letting them run your life. So it's really

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Speaker 2: learning mindfulness. It's really just the skill of mindfulness, like, oh, hello, thoughts,

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Speaker 2: there you are. I'm going to allow you to exist

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Speaker 2: in the background and allow that fear to be there

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Speaker 2: while going about my life as usual, which then over

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Speaker 2: time teaches your brain that it's not important that you

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Speaker 2: had those thoughts, so it doesn't have to raise the

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Speaker 2: alarm bells. Whereas if you have the scary thoughts and

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Speaker 2: then you retreat into yourself and treat them as important,

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Speaker 2: then it's like teaching your brain to be hyper vigilant

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Speaker 2: about those thoughts when they come up.

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Speaker 4: Does that make sense.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, of course. Yeah. I had a really good reaction.

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Speaker 1: Like I got so OCD in high school. That sounds

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Speaker 1: really flippant, but it was ruining my life and I

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Speaker 1: would like skip school I couldn't eat. I just would

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Speaker 1: skip school to clean my room. And then they put

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Speaker 1: me on prozac and in two weeks I was like

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Speaker 1: a different person. But you know, you really need to

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Speaker 1: get to the root of the problem, which I haven't

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Speaker 1: really done yet. I tried to go to the same

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Speaker 1: OCD center as you did. Do you remember what happened?

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Speaker 2: I remember you, it didn't. I don't remember why you

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Speaker 2: stopped going, but I know I didn't.

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Speaker 1: Let me tell you. It's because I met my therapist

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Speaker 1: and sat on my curtain and the curtain rod fell

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Speaker 1: down onto my head. What It hit me so hard

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Speaker 1: and I like almost passed out a little bit, and

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Speaker 1: then I was too embarrassed stop it.

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Speaker 4: That is not what happened.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes again, so so funny.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I still need to confront the real issue,

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Speaker 1: but thank you for giving me a peek into what

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Speaker 1: the real work looks like instead of just masking it

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Speaker 1: with medication, which I will always take. But on top

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Speaker 1: of it, I would like to go a little bit deeper.

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Speaker 2: I mean, and I will say, like, you know, antidepressants,

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Speaker 2: like we know there's typically about as effective as placebo

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Speaker 2: for depression, but for OCD, I think there's better data

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Speaker 2: on how they actually are really can be really effective

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Speaker 2: for OCD.

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Speaker 1: Prozac and my brain go together like ketchup and French fries.

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Speaker 4: So for our ketchup haters out there.

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Speaker 1: That there's no French f haters in your world. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it just like worked. So anyway, thank you for that rundown.

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Speaker 1: Should I ask you what your cultist thing is.

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Speaker 4: Or I'll just race through it really fast?

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Speaker 1: Okay, what's your cultist thing?

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Speaker 2: Okay, I know we're taking too long. Sorry you guys.

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Speaker 2: I'm just I feel like I cannot not address the

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Speaker 2: uh new administration's actions. So I'm just going to mention

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Speaker 2: some of the things that are undeniably culty.

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Speaker 4: There's no other way to look at it.

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Speaker 2: One Trump signed an executive order quote ending radical indoctrination

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Speaker 2: in K twelve schooling. The radical indoctrination being referred to

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Speaker 2: here is any teachings about race or the existence of

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Speaker 2: like transgender people or queerness. That's like the the specific

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Speaker 2: definition of what that means is totally up to them,

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Speaker 2: which means they basically this is giving them the power

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Speaker 2: to completely stop like any kind of education about racial

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Speaker 2: history in America, about like the existence of LGBTQ people

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Speaker 2: in case the teacher wants to make a student feel

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Speaker 2: safer by, you know, just calling them the name they

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Speaker 2: want to be called. Anyway, the way to foster critical

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Speaker 2: thinking is not too censor information to push your own agenda.

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Speaker 2: That is not what critical thinking is. That is what

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Speaker 2: they are claiming they are doing. That is the opposite

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Speaker 2: of what they are doing.

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Speaker 4: It's very very clear.

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Speaker 2: Similarly, the CDC ordered government scientists to withdraw or pause

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Speaker 2: the publication of all papers set to appear in medical

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Speaker 2: or scientific journals so that the Trump administration can review

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Speaker 2: the material for quote forbidden terms such as gender, lgbt

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Speaker 2: or pregnant person. You cannot forbid terms in scientific journals

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Speaker 2: and have that not be indoctrination. That is literally suppressing education.

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Speaker 2: There's no other way to look at it. On top

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Speaker 2: of all the retaliation that he's been doing against anyone

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Speaker 2: who's spoken out against him in the government, including people

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Speaker 2: who worked for him in his own administration, including going

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Speaker 2: against what very conservative Republican senators are advising is He's

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Speaker 2: gone rug you guys, Elon's gone rogue and listen. I

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Speaker 2: know that there might be some listeners who like Trump

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Speaker 2: and I'm not going to judge you for your views,

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Speaker 2: but this behavior, these actions of this administration are fully

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Speaker 2: in line with how cult leaders behave and with how

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Speaker 2: authoritarian governments behave, and I think it's important to be

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Speaker 2: able to in a clear eyed way look at those parallels. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: this does not mean that Democrats are not guilty of

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Speaker 2: stuff as well. Of course they are. But this is

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Speaker 2: very unprecedented and in my opinion, very very scary.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it's wild.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to talk about it too much and

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Speaker 2: overwhelm people because I know everyone's experiencing a lot of overwhelm,

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Speaker 2: but I just felt like I had to mention it

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Speaker 2: and we can go back to cults now.

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Speaker 1: Well, maybe we should talk to Uryah.

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Speaker 4: Let's do it.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Uriah Westman to trust me.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me out, Thanks for.

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Speaker 4: Me in here.

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Speaker 2: I got like multiple messages about your one man show

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Speaker 2: that you've been doing called Three Colts Walk into a Bar,

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Speaker 2: which we had the pleasure of seeing last week. Well, pleasure,

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Speaker 2: and I feel like pleasure is a weird word because

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Speaker 2: it's like a complicated story, but like we we loved

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Speaker 2: the show, so we want to talk to you a

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Speaker 2: little bit more about your story and go into some

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Speaker 2: more detail about the three cults you were in and

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Speaker 2: arguably more of which we can talk about later. Let's

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Speaker 2: start at the beginning.

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Speaker 4: Your first cult that you were.

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Speaker 2: In was Church Universal and Triumphant, right, Yes, were you

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Speaker 2: born into that?

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Speaker 3: Yes? What I was born is kind of right after

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Speaker 3: they got the doomsday date wrong.

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Speaker 4: And oh oh okay, yeah, okay, And.

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Speaker 3: But still my parents stayed in it, Like my dad

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Speaker 3: was in it to the where he was donating ten

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Speaker 3: percent of all of his income to the church, and.

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Speaker 5: He he did.

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Speaker 3: He helped build the bomb shelters, and they were very

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Speaker 3: much in it until the end.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So let's talk about what it is. What is

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Speaker 1: this church?

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Speaker 3: We almost arguably this church was like very much ahead

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Speaker 3: of its time, as it mixed being patriotic about America

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Speaker 3: as well with religious beliefs and then scattered in is

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Speaker 3: a bunch of New age stuff. Mark Lyle Prophet started

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Speaker 3: the cult back in the sixth season. So and they met,

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Speaker 3: and which is interesting is there will be a common

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Speaker 3: pattern of the cult leaders going to Boston University.

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Speaker 1: Okay, interesting, Yes, he was very.

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Speaker 3: Much influenced by the I Am movement, which was more

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Speaker 3: spiritual but also religious at the same time.

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Speaker 4: I don't know what this movement, what is this?

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Speaker 3: It's tricky to for me to try to explain. But

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Speaker 3: it's more of getting like a higher consciousness towards God

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Speaker 3: through decrees and meditation.

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Speaker 1: Kind of like the Rahm Das thing. But he would

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Speaker 1: have been kind of young at that time, I guess,

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: When you pulled the Wikipedia as is the original ascended

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Speaker 2: Master Teaching's neo theosophical religious movement, which is a lot

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Speaker 2: of words.

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Speaker 1: Gott and this isn't Boston, Like that's shocking.

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Speaker 2: There's so many groups that are religious and New Age

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Speaker 2: at the same time, which just like seems like it

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Speaker 2: wouldn't make sense together, but we see it all the time.

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Speaker 2: I mean, what were some of the things that you

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Speaker 2: believed when you were a kid?

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Speaker 3: So part of the New Age would be like them

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Speaker 3: adopting the idea of chakras, where you have energy in

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Speaker 3: your body that if you're feeling negative thoughts, it's because

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Speaker 3: a darkness of a demon has actually entered your consciousness

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Speaker 3: and is feeding off of your light, your soul.

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Speaker 5: So that would be what I believed in.

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Speaker 3: And thought was real was demons, and my parents would

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Speaker 3: say that they're attracted. If you're negative, if you're angry,

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Speaker 3: you're opening up your soul to the demons, as well

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Speaker 3: as if you listen to rock music, if you see

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Speaker 3: violent movies. It's almost like their response to a new

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Speaker 3: generation of people growing up was this is their response

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Speaker 3: to like eighties music and stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: So was there a little satanic panic in their kind

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Speaker 2: of yes, demonic panic?

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Speaker 1: If you will, can you give us some examples of

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Speaker 1: some of the bands that were considered demonic?

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Speaker 3: So so many, I mean, Areo Speedwagon, Michael Jackson.

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Speaker 5: What's interesting is I was able to figure out what

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Speaker 5: music was okay to listen to, and some for whatever reason,

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Speaker 5: the Eagles was fine, Oh well.

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Speaker 4: Okay, that makes sense, I get it.

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Speaker 3: Ever, listen to the lyrics is why do you have

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Speaker 3: to pay the doctor in cash?

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Speaker 5: I was so confused by that.

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Speaker 3: I having no idea that that Saul was about cocaine, right.

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Speaker 1: I think I think that probably the leader and the

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Speaker 1: adults just like the Eagles, and so they were like,

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Speaker 1: it's fine, that's my theory.

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Speaker 2: You were a child of the nineties or ninety two,

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Speaker 2: So was like Celene Dion allowed was like.

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Speaker 1: Wow, honing straight in on Selene Dion.

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Speaker 2: Loan because moms love Celdia, you know, like religious families

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Speaker 2: like Celenion was a okay. In our family, it was

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Speaker 2: Selene and Shanaya, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, Yeah, that's a good question. Was Selene Dion?

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Speaker 3: There was never any problems with Celen Dion. I do know.

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Speaker 3: We weren't allowed to watch Titanic.

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Speaker 2: Oh, well, there's boobs in Titanic, so that's fair.

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Speaker 1: Well there's also death, which do you think it.

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Speaker 4: Was worse than death? Megan?

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Speaker 1: Was it the boobs or the death?

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Speaker 3: There's probably both?

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Speaker 1: Okay? Was there any TV shows that were like that?

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Speaker 1: One's funny, like you can watch Wings.

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Speaker 3: Not really so a lot of Like the TV that

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Speaker 3: was watched was Zaboomafoo. It's a it's a as much

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Speaker 3: as I can remember of it, it's it's, uh, two

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Speaker 3: guys go in nature and there's a.

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Speaker 5: A boon that's like maybe a lemur. I think it's a.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I feel like I vaguely remember this because

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Speaker 2: we didn't have real TV, so we only had PBS

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Speaker 2: most of my childhood.

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Speaker 1: Well, you guys at least had PBS because I had

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Speaker 1: no TV. I didn't know what anything was. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: were cultured, Megan, Okay, so everything's kind of demonic, but

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Speaker 1: some things are allowed.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 2: I want to go back a little bit though, because

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Speaker 2: I'm really curious about your parents and who they were

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Speaker 2: and how they kind of ended up in this group.

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Speaker 3: It's it's so the past of my parents is very

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Speaker 3: like neither of them will talk about it. What I'm

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Speaker 3: gathering is my dad was already in Montana and Livingston

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Speaker 3: was like the base for where it was, and I

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Speaker 3: think with my mom being in Santa Barbara, California, they

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Speaker 3: also had a church there that they both ended up

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Speaker 3: because they're kind of still into the New Age religious stuff,

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Speaker 3: that they both ended up in the church.

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Speaker 5: And when they built the large Royal.

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Speaker 3: Tetne branch in Montana, I feel like that's when they

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Speaker 3: met each other and the leader declared them as twin Flames,

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Speaker 3: which is the cult version of soulmates. Interesting enough, my

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Speaker 3: dad actually already was married with the cult leaders saying

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Speaker 3: that they were twin Flames and then got it wrong.

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Speaker 3: So it's actually he ended up with total three twin Flames.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: I feel like by the second time, it's like, I

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Speaker 3: don't I don't think you're right.

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Speaker 5: It's like you're a bad matchmaker.

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Speaker 2: I think it's quadruple flames.

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Speaker 4: The two's the wrong number here.

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Speaker 2: Do you know if they did they convert to the

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Speaker 2: religion or did they grow.

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Speaker 3: Up in it? They definitely didn't grow up in it.

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Speaker 3: What I'm piecing together from both of my parents' upbringings

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Speaker 3: is for my dad, there's definitely I think physical abuse,

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Speaker 3: just as being a kid, like the classic like yelling

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Speaker 3: or maybe a belt if he was in trouble. And

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Speaker 3: then my mom is I think that the cult was dry,

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Speaker 3: so they didn't drink, and my mom's dad was an

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Speaker 3: alcoholic and I think he was abusive as well, So

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Speaker 3: I think there's both those through lines had them look

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Speaker 3: through look for a community and ended up finding the place.

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Speaker 1: M makes perfect sense.

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Speaker 2: They really were looking for community. That's it's like a

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Speaker 2: theme kind of throughout your life. Do you know Killian Allenbacher.

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Speaker 3: Did he write Aragon?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 2: No, No. He was like a previous guest on this

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Speaker 2: podcast who was also in Church Universal on Triumphant.

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Speaker 3: Though I wish I'd listened to a few episodes, I

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Speaker 3: can't believe.

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Speaker 5: I missed that one.

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Speaker 4: It was a while back, but he was.

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Speaker 2: He really was, Like he talked to us a lot

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Speaker 2: about the bomb shelters and what it was like, you know,

362
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Speaker 2: basically like playing in bomb shelters and constantly thinking that

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Speaker 2: they were gonna have to go down there because the

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Speaker 2: world was going to end at any moment. Is that

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Speaker 2: similar to your experience?

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Speaker 3: Yes, So even after the prophecy was wrong, my parents

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Speaker 3: still especially with Y two K that would have been

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Speaker 3: like the next big one, but it was very much

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Speaker 3: so that at any moment the world could end. Was

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Speaker 3: how I fell.

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Speaker 1: Okay, talk me through this. So when was the first prophecy,

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Speaker 1: what was the date, what did y'all do when that

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Speaker 1: date came, and what did it feel like when it passed?

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Speaker 5: So I wasn't alive during the first main one.

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Speaker 3: My older sister was but just a baby, and I

376
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Speaker 3: think it was in nineteen eighty eight or something, and

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Speaker 3: they kept doing basically drills of going into the shelters

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Speaker 3: and then staying there. So it's almost like a constant

379
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Speaker 3: like the world is going to end sort of mentality

380
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Speaker 3: almost to the fact that I feel like is the

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Speaker 3: amount of money that they put into it. Amount of

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Speaker 3: planning is a sense that I feel like a portion

383
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Speaker 3: is they would want the world to end, so they

384
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Speaker 3: are right, same as like a fundamental Christian in the sense.

385
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Speaker 3: But afterwards, so when my youngest memory is actually of

386
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Speaker 3: the leader herself. I met her, and I shouldn't remember

387
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Speaker 3: this all because of how young I was. But the

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Speaker 3: detailed I remember the most is the intense eye contact that.

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Speaker 5: Through each of the leaders.

390
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Speaker 3: It was almost uncomfortable in terms of how intense eye

391
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Speaker 3: contact was, and forever reason. I remember that her pinky

392
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Speaker 3: toe was somehow covering her other toe, a detail that

393
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Speaker 3: I still remember pictures to this day. But I think

394
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Speaker 3: what it was it was the overall I could feel

395
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Speaker 3: that everyone idolized her so much, which as a kid,

396
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Speaker 3: I recognize that, and that's why I remember little minor

397
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Speaker 3: details are stupid things like that.

398
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Speaker 2: And you say her, because that's Elizabeth Claire Prophet, who

399
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Speaker 2: was the wife of the first man that you mentioned, right, Yes,

400
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Speaker 2: she kind of became the leader after him.

401
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Speaker 1: How many people left after this failed prophecy? The first one, I.

402
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Speaker 5: Think a lot.

403
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Speaker 3: At its height is I think it was like fifty

404
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,439
Speaker 3: thousand people around the world.

405
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Speaker 5: Yeah, Wow, And that is just an estimate.

406
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Speaker 3: Like they had their marketing down and had chapters everywhere

407
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 3: and they would do recruitment there. I mean, I joke

408
00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 3: about the bomb shelters being built really badly, but they

409
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:26,359
Speaker 3: had like real people building them and like a lot

410
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Speaker 3: of money into making them.

411
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Speaker 5: So they definitely had no issue with that.

412
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Speaker 3: I remember it is because it would be the huge

413
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Speaker 3: retreats and then from there it was less and less people.

414
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Speaker 5: Every time.

415
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,120
Speaker 3: It used to be hundreds and then it started being

416
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 3: less and less. So I would say thirty to forty

417
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Speaker 3: percent because they basically after the prophecy.

418
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Speaker 5: She said they decreed it. Because they decreed.

419
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,679
Speaker 3: So much, which is the cult version of prayers is

420
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Speaker 3: they got rid of it and most people.

421
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Speaker 5: Just didn't buy it.

422
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Speaker 3: They got rid of what the nuclear bomb that was

423
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Speaker 3: going to be set by Russia.

424
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Speaker 1: Oh so not only did it not happen, but it

425
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Speaker 1: didn't happen because of their prayers. Yes, which is tricky.

426
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Speaker 2: A typical response to you when a doomsday or prophecy

427
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,640
Speaker 2: does not come true, it's like, oh God, you know,

428
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Speaker 2: we did it.

429
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Speaker 4: We stopped it, or God spared us.

430
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Speaker 2: But it's interesting to hear that that many people left

431
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 2: because I feel like commonly, you know not I mean

432
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Speaker 2: a lot of people's day.

433
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think a lot of that was because so

434
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 3: many of them gave all of their money, sold their houses,

435
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 3: all this to build the shelters, and when that didn't happen,

436
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 3: they really had no way to live other than to

437
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:48,639
Speaker 3: work and make money.

438
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Speaker 1: That's so sad. Were you were they living in the

439
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 1: shelters or were they just kind of nearby?

440
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Speaker 5: There might have been some like living in the shelters.

441
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Speaker 3: There was a subdivision that we lived on called Glastonbury,

442
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Speaker 3: so that was all members of the church would would

443
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Speaker 3: live there.

444
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 5: So I think a lot of them would either live

445
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Speaker 5: and work.

446
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,239
Speaker 3: There are off site that they could quickly get to

447
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 3: the branch if anything where that happened.

448
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,120
Speaker 2: I think I asked this in Killian's episode, but can

449
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,479
Speaker 2: you buy one? Like are they still around? What's happened

450
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:33,400
Speaker 2: with the bomb shelters?

451
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 3: Do we know they're selling them? So it's oddly enough

452
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 3: when I would is that there's videos that you could

453
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 3: just look up on YouTube and people are just buying

454
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 3: them and converting them because when the leader died, they

455
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 3: never picked anyone else to lead and be the new

456
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 3: ascended master, and because of that, there's no one for

457
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 3: anyone to follow other than plain old decrees of previous times.

458
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 3: It was basically, I call it like the grit. They

459
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,199
Speaker 3: were playing the greatest hits of what it was like

460
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 3: to be in the eighties and nineties, and most people

461
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,360
Speaker 3: would just find something else because you have a dwindling community.

462
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 3: Mostly at that point, it's just older people that are

463
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 3: just there because they don't want to go anywhere else.

464
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 1: Right, heartbreaking. Was there benefactors that had a lot of

465
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 1: money or was this completely built on the working man

466
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: and woman's back, because it seems like these were expensive.

467
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 3: I would say mostly it was just small donations. I

468
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 3: don't think there was like like one person financing everything.

469
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 3: It's definitely if you wanted to be a main member,

470
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 3: then you would be giving ten percent of your income

471
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 3: to the church, which.

472
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 2: My dad was, which is true in Mormonism too. I mean,

473
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 2: so many churches are funded that way.

474
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: To make those mini bomb shelters is a lot of motive. Yeah, yeah,

475
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: I guess there's fifty thousand members, so go off Queen's

476
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: you know, they get both.

477
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 2: Was fifty thousand how many members or how many members left?

478
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 5: So this fifty thousand is the estimated number.

479
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 3: But what is so odd about everything is maybe they

480
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,360
Speaker 3: could fit one thousand members in the bombshelter stop it.

481
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: How did they explain that away?

482
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 3: I don't know. I've read Prophet's Daughter that try to

483
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 3: piece things together. They never explain that in the book.

484
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 4: Oh my god, it is Titanic.

485
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: It is Titanic. Yeah, I'm not going to be leo.

486
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: If I've spent ten percent building that thing, I'm getting

487
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: in there, you know what I mean.

488
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you're a kid, this prophecy's already happened and

489
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,199
Speaker 2: didn't come true. But your family is like, no, we

490
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 2: still believe. Like so, what was the conversation around the

491
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 2: end of the world then?

492
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 3: At that point it was still to make sure that

493
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 3: you decree every day keep your aura vibrant and be positive.

494
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 3: Otherwise the negativity would bring on a negative change in

495
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 3: our lives. So if we did ever feel bad, my

496
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 3: mom would get mad at us in the sense of

497
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 3: that we our own behavior would have ramifications on the world.

498
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 1: Oh, it sounds like the perfect recipe for OCD.

499
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 2: If you have a negative thought, the world safety could

500
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 2: be at the stake.

501
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,919
Speaker 1: What yeah, Yeah, you seem like a very positive person.

502
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: Were you able to keep the negativity at bay as

503
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 1: best as you could?

504
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 3: It's so funny that I come across as a really

505
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 3: positive person. But but that's great if I really take

506
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 3: my memories of what I remember in Livingstone. Was always

507
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 3: scared that there were demons and monsters in my room.

508
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 3: I would so, uh, the best I can kind of

509
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 3: explain this is if you if it's if you have

510
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 3: the lights on in your room and you close your

511
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 3: eyes and then open them up right away, those kind

512
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 3: of those like black dots that you'll see just like

513
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 3: flow the around. I was terrified that those those were

514
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 3: entities and those were demons.

515
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah yeah, And your parents aren't like no,

516
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: they're not. They're like, yeah they are.

517
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 5: Yes.

518
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 3: So that would be the good time to bring up

519
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 3: that my parents would use a sword that the cult

520
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 3: leader blessed that they would keep on the altar where

521
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 3: they would uh pray and decree, and they'd use that

522
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 3: to scrape it down my spy and that would kill

523
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 3: the demons.

524
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 2: I have to know, how hard of a scrape are

525
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 2: we talking?

526
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 3: Not like very hard? I mean it was a doll sword.

527
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 3: It was like it's it would be the same as

528
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 3: like like a backscratcher.

529
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 5: I would compare it to.

530
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean that's better than literally like cutting your

531
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 2: back all the time.

532
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 4: But Jesus Christ, did.

533
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 2: You feel like it worked like were You're like, oh,

534
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 2: thank God?

535
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 3: So if you felt like like I was particularly on

536
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 3: your spine, because that's where the main chalkras are, and

537
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 3: that's w your light is the little lake tingles those

538
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 3: I was told were demons. So the sword to me

539
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 3: was a comfort thing because it was a positive thing.

540
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 3: It was only till afterwards where I started questioning everything.

541
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 3: Did I realized that, oh, this is more this was

542
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 3: actually more harmful than a positive thing in my life?

543
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 1: Right, I mean yeah, it kind of sounds like somebody

544
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: comes in and kind of tickles your back every night.

545
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 1: But I'm sure once you start I'm wondering out loud.

546
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: Do you think that the leader was like, how do

547
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: I put this? Was this something that the leader encouraged?

548
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: And do you think it was kind of too unconsciously

549
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: scared children that your parents have a sword to your

550
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: back and neck every single night of your life.

551
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 4: Question?

552
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 3: So when they would do the retreats, is some people

553
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 3: would have swords, and they would do it in like

554
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 3: a like a pattern of making like an X. When

555
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 3: they're doing the decrease, they're releasing the demons. But reading

556
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 3: the Prophet's Daughter book that was written by the daughter

557
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 3: of Elizabeth Clare Prophet, she does not bring up the

558
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 3: sword once.

559
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 5: In the entire book.

560
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 3: But I've received dms from people on Instagram that saw

561
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 3: a clip of me talking about the sword, and they're like,

562
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 3: the same thing happened to me. So I actually think

563
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 3: it's something that just started happening and members started taking

564
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 3: it on as an extra step.

565
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 4: Interesting.

566
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 2: If somebody scratches your back, now, is it triggering for you?

567
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 3: No?

568
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 4: Okay, cool.

569
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 2: I've talked about this a bunch on here before, But

570
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,959
Speaker 2: I also believed in demons, but I didn't have it

571
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 2: to the extent where like I thought they were constantly

572
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 2: on me. It was more like I was warned that

573
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 2: if I were to sin, generally this was associated with

574
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 2: sexual sin, then they would, like you know, I would

575
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 2: wake up and I would see them. And of course

576
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 2: sleep paralysis is a thing, so I was just in

577
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 2: com to Terrri. I had sleeperrouses last night and a

578
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 2: little part of me was like, might be a demon.

579
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,479
Speaker 2: I didn't see one, but you know, you get that feeling.

580
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 2: I'm like, might be a demon. Maybe you've been saying.

581
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: If you put them in there early enough, demon theology

582
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: isn't going anywhere.

583
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, Bran, Yeah stuck, it's in there. But it sounds

584
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 2: so scary to have that, like to just have this

585
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,959
Speaker 2: like sort of constant paranoia and even just from negative

586
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 2: thoughts that like that that would conjure a demon, just

587
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 2: a negative thought. So if you were sad about something,

588
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 2: even just sadness, demons.

589
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, uh, I can't remember all of them. So

590
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 3: there's this decree book my mom would have. It's like

591
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 3: five hundred pages and in it is each of the

592
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 3: names of all the all the.

593
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 5: Demons, and there would be a demon.

594
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 3: So if you're gay, it's because you have a gay

595
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 3: demon that has taken over your soul. Same thing that

596
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 3: if you were addicted to the cocaine, drugs, alcohol, all

597
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 3: that is that is entity is taken overy for And

598
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 3: it's a long list of all these things basically is whatever.

599
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 3: And this is more like the religious like Christian Christianity,

600
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 3: all that of being homophobic. They just threw that in

601
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 3: that it wasn't normal. It's because there's an entity there

602
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 3: that has taken over.

603
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 4: It's so interesting.

604
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 2: It's like Greek mythology, where there's a god for absolutely everything,

605
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 2: except that there's a demon for absolutely everything.

606
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 5: And I'm pretty sure the names are Greek. They're definitely

607
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 5: like there.

608
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,239
Speaker 3: They they looked like they just took things to just

609
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 3: change it enough to make it sound like it was anything.

610
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: Well, it sounds like that's what they were literally doing.

611
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, so what.

612
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 3: They all do?

613
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,959
Speaker 2: So how did things start to go awry with this

614
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 2: group and lead your family to the next one?

615
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 3: So kind of what ended up happening is when my

616
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 3: parents stop living together and split up, my dad wanted

617
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 3: to get custody of us, and and that's when my

618
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 3: mom actually started calling my dad a demon because we

619
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 3: were trying to take her away.

620
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 5: Because a lot of the.

621
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 3: Things about why they had us this idea is that

622
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 3: we're meant to stick around in the church and that's

623
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 3: why we would have the kids, and that's why the

624
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 3: cult leaders named gave us the name of Riah and

625
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 3: then my sister's names. So because my dad was doing that,

626
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 3: she basically just turned the ideology of the cult on

627
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 3: my dad, which essentially caused us to leave Montana to

628
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 3: Santa Barbara the North Carolina, and then throughout the two

629
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 3: years or so, we moved back to Montana. And then

630
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 3: this is where I'm at this point. I'd be around

631
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 3: like twelve years old, and that's when my dad gets

632
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 3: full custody of us, and then we're visiting my mom,

633
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 3: who has declared Livingston Montana gateway to hell. Oh and

634
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 3: really is I feel like because this church was so

635
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 3: vast in its ideology, it was very very easy to

636
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 3: pick and choose something that makes sense to you and

637
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 3: then justify how you react and treat other people. I

638
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 3: feel like my mom genuinely believed that my dad was

639
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 3: a demon and that you would be in trouble and

640
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 3: this was the future. Almost to the world was at

641
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,959
Speaker 3: stake if we weren't actively decreeing and with her this

642
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 3: entire time.

643
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 2: Can I ask what was going on with your mom

644
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 2: mental health wise at this time?

645
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 3: Right at this time would be when it really started

646
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 3: to decline.

647
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 5: I don't know whether or not.

648
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 3: Mentally, I feel like there's she was never diagnosed with anything,

649
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 3: but definitely looking back, there is something wrong that was

650
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 3: never treated and helped with. She was very much a

651
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 3: horror so we would live in these environments just full

652
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 3: of just clothes. She would just buy clothes and never

653
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 3: wear them. I later find out that we almost never

654
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 3: had money for basic needs, but she was out either

655
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 3: donating a ton of money to the church or just

656
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 3: buying buying stuff wow, which I think I feel like

657
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 3: both of them are just more just trying to fill

658
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 3: the void of whatever she never dealt with as a

659
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 3: child and a teenager.

660
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: What were your thoughts about her at this time? Were

661
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: you like, yeah, my dad is a demon and Montana

662
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 1: is a gateway to how or were you like what

663
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 1: this was?

664
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 3: Right where it got confusing because it was with my dad,

665
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 3: And when I started being with my dad there started

666
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 3: just being stability with just knowing.

667
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 5: Where I was going to sleep.

668
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 3: What was like was big and I was able to

669
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 3: then because we weren't moving. I was able to make

670
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 3: friends and living living and everything was fine. So it

671
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 3: kept like when I was hearing the things she would

672
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 3: say and it wasn't reflecting my reality. That's where I

673
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 3: really started to question what was happening and started like

674
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 3: getting almost angry with it. But that's also where my

675
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:26,399
Speaker 3: mom escalated and started having more fits of rage where

676
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 3: she was screaming, yell where I almost feel like she

677
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,240
Speaker 3: had tunnel vision where she couldn't stop and just directed

678
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 3: all of her pain onto us, and particularly me because

679
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 3: I was the man of the of the of the kids,

680
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 3: so because my dad's a man, she also directed a

681
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 3: lot of that rage towards me, which she also used

682
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 3: movies to show how bad men are. I watched the

683
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 3: original IT TV series, so my mom would be like,

684
00:35:58,000 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 3: see how bad men are?

685
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,760
Speaker 4: Wow, the clowns show.

686
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 2: I was going to mention that because that was considered

687
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 2: an evil movie in our house and the VHS I

688
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 2: thought was haunted. And that's so funny that you're now

689
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 2: that she used that. I mean, it's not funny, this

690
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 2: is terrible, but like that's terrifying.

691
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 4: Why does that.

692
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 2: Movie come up all the time with religious people but

693
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 2: it was not a man?

694
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 4: How was this?

695
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 3: Like?

696
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 4: How did she use that?

697
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 3: It would be just she would see someone thinking that

698
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 3: if I saw another I guess it almost would make

699
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 3: sense that even if the clown was a demon, it

700
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,720
Speaker 3: would make sense that it was it was my dad,

701
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 3: it was she would it wasn't that that's just one

702
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 3: of the other things that she would have us watch

703
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 3: that would make try to screw it. So my dad

704
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 3: looks bad. Even at this point, as I was able

705
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 3: to connect with my dad, You're watching hockey, and that

706
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 3: was as close as it would still not be, like

707
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 3: knowing much about his backstory, but as my mom would

708
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 3: be doing this, I would be bonding with my dad

709
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 3: through ways that would be outside of talking about the church.

710
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 2: Right, it sounds like he would he was sort of

711
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 2: your lifeline to some kind of grounded reality that you

712
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 2: really didn't get with your mom.

713
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 3: Yes, but I mean he was still would be like

714
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 3: if an ambulance drove by, he would quickly do like

715
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 3: decrees and stuff. He would always so when I talk

716
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 3: about this with him, he would still be like, I

717
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 3: was never in it as much as your mom, So

718
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 3: we kind of deflect almost. I feel like there might

719
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 3: be maybe a little bit of shame and regret from

720
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 3: how much he spent. But he's also now a Quanon

721
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 3: conspiracy theorist, so I feel like he's just moved into

722
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 3: another realm, which has made it harder to one. If

723
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 3: I see him watch hockey, because it'll advertise five g

724
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 3: and then immediately we're talking about how five G is

725
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 3: controlling our brains. So even stuff like that now, like oh,

726
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 3: and then during COVID he's like, oh, look they're shutting

727
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 3: down hockey because of COVID. It's like, okay, it's sports.

728
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 3: Let's just leave it as sports, dad.

729
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

730
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: What does a decree sound like?

731
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:30,959
Speaker 3: This is what I'll remember is I called to Lord

732
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 3: Michael and his twelve legions of angels to protect the souls.

733
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 5: Who are I get it, I'm butchering right now. But

734
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 5: essentially you have to say it out loud to give

735
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 5: it power. So let's say that you were.

736
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 3: Going to prayer decree and you're going on a plane

737
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 3: and you want to be safe, so you would be like,

738
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 3: I call the Lord Angel Michael to watch over this

739
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 3: playing to make sure that it's and crash. But you'd

740
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 3: say that out loud, so everyone would hear you.

741
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my god.

742
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 4: Would you do it like at school?

743
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 3: So there was only one time where I would do

744
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 3: it out loud.

745
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 5: School was like very much.

746
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 3: I substituted it or I sucked my thumb instead. That

747
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 3: was my coping mechanism. So like I would just like

748
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 3: pull up my sweatshirt and like I would think no

749
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 3: one would notice, but eventually people would know this. But

750
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 3: I actually only vividly remember decreeing one time because my

751
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 3: mom's cat went missing and I was petrified of how

752
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 3: she was going to react to potentially cat dying. And

753
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 3: that's the only time I vividly decreed myself.

754
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: You were like, Michael, get me that cat. I cannot

755
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: have my mom freaking out tonight. Yeah, what an odd

756
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 1: thing to watch people around you do I, at least

757
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 1: in my religion growing up, You like, did it in

758
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: your head?

759
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 3: Yeah?

760
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 4: I was just say I would.

761
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: I would say prayers about stuff all the time, but

762
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 2: it would be in my head typically unless unless.

763
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 4: I was alone.

764
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 2: Hello, Dear Heavenly Father, I'm thankful for this day. I'm

765
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 2: thankful for all these many blessings. Please bless that I

766
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 2: will get X.

767
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 4: Thing that I want. That's how it would go. And

768
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 4: I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ.

769
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 4: Say it.

770
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 3: I guess.

771
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 2: I'm like, I just have a couple more questions about

772
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 2: your mom, because this part of your story there's just

773
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 2: so much going on at once for you. It just

774
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 2: seems like so much for a kid to process, because

775
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 2: like already you're in this religion that I'm guessing makes

776
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 2: you feel kind of weird at school and makes you

777
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 2: think about the end of the world way too much

778
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 2: and obsess over whether demons are around.

779
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 4: Like that's already a thing.

780
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 2: That's like a huge, huge thing to be dealing with

781
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 2: at such a young age or at any age. But

782
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:01,720
Speaker 2: then on tif of that, you have this like mentally

783
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 2: ill mother who's like kind of having a maybe a

784
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 2: breakdown of some kind like and it's not even like

785
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 2: a normal divorce where parents are yelling at each other

786
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 2: or whatever. It's like, No, your dad is literally a

787
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 2: demon and you're living in.

788
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 4: A portal to hell.

789
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,359
Speaker 2: You also mentioned that with your dad who got some

790
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 2: like like physical like residential stability.

791
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 4: Were you moving around constantly with your mom?

792
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 3: Yes? So, uh from Montana. So I'll break it down.

793
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 3: Where we're in Montana. We leave in two thousand. Then

794
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 3: we live in Santa Barbara. We're there for maybe two

795
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 3: or three months until we moved from Santa Barbara, California,

796
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 3: all the way to North Carolina. Then we're in When

797
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 3: we're in North Carolina, we're in one house and then

798
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 3: we moved to another and then we're there for about

799
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 3: almost two years. Then we moved back to Montana, but

800
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 3: this time instead of moving back to Montana, this is

801
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 3: when my mom kind of realizes the gravity of my

802
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,800
Speaker 3: dad trying to get custody. So we're sleeping even either

803
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 3: in the car or in a hotel, and that's when

804
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 3: she starts saying Livingston is a gateway to hell. So

805
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 3: that's why we leave the hotel to then sleep in

806
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 3: a car. So in this but even when we were

807
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 3: in North Carolina, I went to three or four different

808
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 3: schools because one time they redrew the districts, so we

809
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:35,399
Speaker 3: were not we're at the school that we first went

810
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 3: to was one I have the fondest memories of where

811
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 3: I was more or less accepted and was able to

812
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 3: be myself and like tell jokes and that was fun.

813
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 3: But because we moved and at the same time they

814
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 3: redrew the districts to because we were living by upper

815
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 3: middle class neighborhood, so they moved it over, so we're

816
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 3: no longer being that school. So we went to another

817
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 3: public school until my mom got a job somehow at

818
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,720
Speaker 3: a Montessori school, so then we go to another school.

819
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 3: So even if we're living we keep switching schools, where

820
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,720
Speaker 3: I also just am done with trying to meet people

821
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,240
Speaker 3: because I know we're going to move again.

822
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we moved like maybe seven times, and

823
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 2: that felt crazy. You know, I went to like three

824
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 2: four different high schools. But that is like on another level,

825
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 2: like how how did you ever feel grounded?

826
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:34,279
Speaker 3: I didn't, and I don't have this in the show.

827
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 3: But at the same time, we had four cats with us,

828
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 3: so no.

829
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, babies in like the.

830
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 3: Car, yeah, in a Honda Odyssey, one like the like

831
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety. And one thing is I don't bring it

832
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 3: up in a show because I realized people love animals

833
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 3: a lot more than humans. Because also people are going

834
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 3: to be like, what about the cats? Cats were? And

835
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 3: what I'm forgetting is we were then in Montana, where

836
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 3: we go to Virginia Beach, where we're there for a

837
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 3: few weeks until that's when my mom gets arrested or

838
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 3: kidnapping us.

839
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 5: Then we move again back to Montana.

840
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 3: Then even in Montana, we live in three different houses,

841
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 3: and then I'm traveling back and forth with my mom,

842
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 3: who also moves multiple times. So wasn't just moving to

843
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 3: different cities, it was just moving different houses I mean, so.

844
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 1: While you're physically bouncing all over the place, what's your

845
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: emotional and I'll just say quote unquote spiritual state, like

846
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: are you still believing in any of this religiously or

847
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 1: what are your feelings on it at this point?

848
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 3: So my mom would just wear headphones and listened to decrees.

849
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 3: So I would just kind of be in the back

850
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 3: of the van and look through So i'd pick up

851
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 3: at like the rest shops, like discounts on hotels and

852
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 3: like places we could visit. So what I was focusing

853
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:11,240
Speaker 3: more on is looking out the window are different places

854
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 3: that we could that we would never go to, but

855
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,839
Speaker 3: then imagining that we went there, and like how that was?

856
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 3: So I was very uh, it was It was fun

857
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 3: because I would I'd be like, hey, mom, this this

858
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,839
Speaker 3: is the best deal on the hotel, even though it

859
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 3: wasn't at school.

860
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so your mind was kind of on survival

861
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 1: and the quote unquote demon thing wasn't really on your

862
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,879
Speaker 1: mind as much as it was just coming from your mother.

863
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it was a lot of what we didn't

864
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 3: really know what was happening all this time, and it

865
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,359
Speaker 3: and when we would just kind of go with what

866
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 3: my mom would say, but it was very much is

867
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 3: when my dad came and picked us up, we were

868
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 3: I was mad, I was angry. I was also confused

869
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 3: because I to the level did kind of.

870
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 5: Believe that my dad was a demon.

871
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 3: But it was all that would have like fixed things,

872
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 3: is if my dad just communicated to us what was

873
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 3: happening and why. I think it would have at least

874
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 3: we might not have digested it right away, but we

875
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 3: would at least had more of an idea other than

876
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 3: just imagining or like having our mind run wild with

877
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 3: what is happening?

878
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 2: Right, So he like got custody of you, but didn't

879
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 2: necessarily explain that this that your mom is kind of

880
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 2: having this breakdown of sorts.

881
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, that must have been super confusing because.

882
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 2: You're like, my dad is a demon, but like he's

883
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 2: also being really nice and we're watching hockey. Is that

884
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 2: like how did you kind of deal with that contradiction?

885
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 3: I think my dad, because I also was a guy,

886
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,399
Speaker 3: he was able to h relate to me by using

887
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 3: hockey and then using oddly enough super tramp. Yeah.

888
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 5: I might even be like.

889
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 3: Viewing the songs differently, but he's like the school song

890
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 3: that's about getting indoctrinated into the school system.

891
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 5: I'm like, well, that kind of makes sense.

892
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 3: Because I was a class cloud. I'm like, I hated

893
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 3: these authority figures. So I think I just it was

894
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 3: one thing. I just stopped thinking about it after a bit, right.

895
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,399
Speaker 3: And the biggest thing, though, was my my dad would

896
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 3: still yell and well, it was as bad as my mom,

897
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 3: but it was very much it felt because my dad

898
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 3: remarried and had another kid. It's still kind of like

899
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 3: I felt in limbo of who am I at?

900
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 5: Who am I in this like dynamic.

901
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 3: I wasn't my own individual self when it came to

902
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,399
Speaker 3: my mom, and it seems like I was just kind

903
00:47:55,400 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 3: of there in terms of existing because basic things like

904
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 3: just like cleaning up after myself was just something that

905
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:07,959
Speaker 3: was never taught. And if my dad was like, clean

906
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 3: up after yourself, my mom would be the exact opposite,

907
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 3: and that would be what she was. A hoarder anyways.

908
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 3: But it was the same thing with when I sucked

909
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 3: my thumb, my dad would get like hot sauce and stuff.

910
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:21,359
Speaker 5: It's like, we're gonna put this on.

911
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 3: And then you're gonna stop and now all now it's

912
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 3: just like spicy food so it didn't really change anything.

913
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:30,320
Speaker 3: But then my mom would encourage it, so it was

914
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:34,479
Speaker 3: a back and forth with whatever my dad said was good,

915
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 3: what my mom said was bad. I wanted to play hockey.

916
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:42,240
Speaker 3: My mom put me in ballet, so it was wow.

917
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, what a whirlwind of a childhood.

918
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 4: Rayah, this is so crazy.

919
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. I wouldn't even know what was up and what

920
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:58,240
Speaker 1: was down. Yeah yeah, whoa Okay? Part one with your Yah.

921
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: Can't wait for next week's episode with him. It just

922
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 1: gets more and more intense in my opinion, Lola, Yeah,

923
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: you had a thought that you thought might be a

924
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,399
Speaker 1: good conclusion to this episode. What is it?

925
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 2: Well, I I don't know if it I would call

926
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 2: it a good conclusion or even a well formed thought.

927
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 2: I have a vague thought which just what this interview

928
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,959
Speaker 2: brought up for me, and you know, we'll maybe see

929
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:26,959
Speaker 2: a little bit more of it in part two next week.

930
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 2: But is just how when when ideology is rooted in

931
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 2: just like feelings and just like what someone said is

932
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 2: true instead of like evidence or whatever, the way that

933
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:44,760
Speaker 2: they are just so completely subject to transform into literally

934
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 2: anything because of what someone said or what someone felt,

935
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 2: and not because of anything it's just so striking to me.

936
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 2: I know this is not insightful in any way, but

937
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 2: like how their first group believed these like New Age

938
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 2: ideas and these Christian ideas, and then the second group

939
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 2: was like able to just morphit so easily, and then

940
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 2: his mom was so quickly was able to say, actually,

941
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 2: my ex husband, that's the demon.

942
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 4: You know what I mean.

943
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 2: Like once once we're working in a realm of well,

944
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 2: it's just my feelings, then it can be anything, and

945
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 2: then any behavior can be justified, any action can be

946
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 2: justified because your feeling is present to make it justified.

947
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 4: Does this make any sense?

948
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,240
Speaker 1: I'm having a little trouble, but I feel like I'm

949
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:30,880
Speaker 1: just tired.

950
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 2: No, I think I'm not making good sense. I think

951
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 2: it's my fault. I think I am the problem. I'm

952
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 2: just saying, like when beliefs are rooted in abstract ideas

953
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:46,320
Speaker 2: that are put forward by just like an emotion or

954
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,399
Speaker 2: a feeling or a whim of a human, like they

955
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 2: could change it any moment, and they do change at

956
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 2: any moment. And we see this in so many groups

957
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 2: where the ideologies are just morphs and morphs and Morse

958
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 2: and morse. Because it's not rooted in anything concrete totally.

959
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,800
Speaker 2: And that that's just like something that always amazes me

960
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 2: about the human mind and about human groups is that,

961
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:09,760
Speaker 2: like the ideology actually isn't really that important. It's really

962
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 2: only about is there somebody who's deciding that people believe

963
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 2: in and that's it?

964
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 3: Yeah?

965
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 1: Is there somebody I can hand my authority to who

966
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 1: seemingly is getting super good information from something.

967
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 4: From on high?

968
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 2: Yeah?

969
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 1: Yeah?

970
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:26,280
Speaker 4: Yeah?

971
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 2: And how and how there are new profits who are like,

972
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 2: actually I have it, Actually I have it, Actually I

973
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 2: have you know, you see this in Mormonism all the time.

974
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 2: Actually I'm the one. Actually I'm the one. Yeah, Like,

975
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 2: show me the proof, buddy, Furnish the angel.

976
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 1: Furnish the angel? What does that mean?

977
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 4: Produce the produce the age is.

978
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 1: Not what you guys say it more, you know, I

979
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 1: just just give out.

980
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 4: I'm out.

981
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 2: Okay, So if anyone would like your emerge that says

982
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 2: furnish the Angel on, it will be available.

983
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: Wait, where is our merch available? We should do a.

984
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 2: Merch shout out yes bitt l y slash trust me merch,

985
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 2: which we always forget to tell you about.

986
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:08,880
Speaker 1: And also rate the podcast if you feel so inclined

987
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 1: to give it five stars. I'm full stars, great points, Lola,

988
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 1: great episode, Let's do it again next week, Finish your

989
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:21,360
Speaker 1: Riya's story. Anything else to add, No, ma'am as, always

990
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: remember to follow your gut, watch out for red flax,

991
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: and never ever trust me. Hey.

992
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 2: Trust Me as produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and

993
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 2: Steve Delamator.

994
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: With special thanks to Stacy Para and.

995
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:39,479
Speaker 2: Our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

996
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

997
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cult pod, or on TikTok at

998
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:47,839
Speaker 1: trust Me Cult Podcast.

999
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:51,319
Speaker 2: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1000
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham

1001
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:55,880
Speaker 1: Hits on Twitter.

1002
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread the word