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Speaker 1: The guys from paying They've kind of showed me how

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Speaker 1: much the equipment matters. I just love that I can

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Speaker 1: hit any shot.

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Speaker 2: I kind of want. We're gonna be able to tell

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Speaker 2: some fun stories about what goes on here to help

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Speaker 2: golfers play better golf, everybody, and welcome back to the

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Speaker 2: Ping Proving Grounds Podcast. I'm your host today. Not co

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Speaker 2: host hosts today Marty Jertsen, Shane Baker normal co host.

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Speaker 2: He's probably out hitting driver off the deck playing golf somewhere.

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Speaker 2: We have a very very fun topic today. Something I've

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Speaker 2: been very excited about. Spending some time with doctor Eric

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Speaker 2: Henderson second time, second time on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: This is number three, number three, Yeah, coming to expert.

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Speaker 2: But we're we're going to talk about putters and a

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Speaker 2: lot of very fun things. How it's kind of a

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Speaker 2: very hot topic in the industry right now. Putters, how

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Speaker 2: they feel, what you're sensing? Uh, And I think Eric,

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Speaker 2: that's kind of where I want to start with things,

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Speaker 2: is we're looking at a bunch of different putters here.

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Speaker 2: They have a lot of different history to them, a

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Speaker 2: lot of different hozzle configurations and kind of waiting. But

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Speaker 2: you know, I think let's let's start the conversation with, uh,

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Speaker 2: just the concept of you go in, you pick up

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Speaker 2: a putter for the first time. What is the golfer

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Speaker 2: experiencing holistically there with what they're feeling and sensing?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so keyword there is sensing. Right, So you pick

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Speaker 1: up a putter for the first time, we have these

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Speaker 1: five senses, right, and with putting typically not locking your putter,

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Speaker 1: so taste isn't involved. Maybe you want to smell it,

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Speaker 1: but really it's it's touch, right, It's it's it's the visuals,

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Speaker 1: and then it impact is what it sounds like, right,

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Speaker 1: And so each of those plays a role in our

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Speaker 1: experience as we execute a putting stroke with a putter

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Speaker 1: or various putters. And I think when you first put

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Speaker 1: it down and there's no motion, right, that's going to

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Speaker 1: be really dominated by visuals. Does it sit right? I

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Speaker 1: know Tony, our principal putter designer, spends a lot of

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Speaker 1: time making sure each of these models sits square to

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Speaker 1: the eye right, and and what are the different alignment

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Speaker 1: aids that will help somebody, you know, set this thing

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Speaker 1: down and have confidence that they're pointing it in the

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Speaker 1: direction that they want to put in. So site is

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Speaker 1: that first one. I think the second big one both

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Speaker 1: at setup. If you're hovering your putter, you're gonna feel

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Speaker 1: the weight of it. It may have a little tendency

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Speaker 1: to maybe want to rock open as you hold it,

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Speaker 1: and we'll hit on that a little bit, and well

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Speaker 1: that may be important and what that does to how

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Speaker 1: you you know, feel like you're you're you're pointing the

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Speaker 1: putter and then obviously you're gonna start moving it right,

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Speaker 1: and so the balance, the weighting of it. You're applying

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Speaker 1: forces and torques to the putter to move it and

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Speaker 1: make a putting stroke, so tactile feel. This word called

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Speaker 1: appropriate option right is really important and we're going to

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Speaker 1: dive into that one too, and then it impacts sound. Right.

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Speaker 1: We have different we have paying off for different groove

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Speaker 1: depths and patterns that really influence the acoustic Different ball

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Speaker 1: you use can influence that experience. So each of those

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Speaker 1: senses has its place. Looking into sensing, I was kind

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Speaker 1: of fascinated with, you know, which one is kind of

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Speaker 1: the most important. How fast can we process data? And

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Speaker 1: I was really surprised. Initially, I thought, oh, surely it's

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Speaker 1: sight right, speed of light fast. Yeah, But you got

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Speaker 1: to process that. And so actually, if you look at literature,

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Speaker 1: they would suggest that from a human response standpoint, sound

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Speaker 1: is actually the quickest thing we can respond to. It's

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Speaker 1: I don't know, processing is like say one hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty milliseconds, and then touch is actually a very close second.

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Speaker 1: So what we feel is that we we react to

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Speaker 1: that very quickly, and rules is actually like lagging quite

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Speaker 1: a bit behind those two. And so as we want

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Speaker 1: to execute a putt right, we're using all those senses

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Speaker 1: to execute that task. Uh. And so how we design

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Speaker 1: a putter uh and how they interact with all those

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Speaker 1: senses is really important.

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Speaker 2: Let's break it down into what you kind of feel like,

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Speaker 2: you know, just aiming. We know that aiming is important,

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Speaker 2: whether you're trying to aim perfect to your intended intended

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Speaker 2: start line. We've seen a lot of great players maybe

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Speaker 2: aim slightly left or slightly right right, and then you know,

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Speaker 2: try to we try to optimize for the consistency of

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Speaker 2: the delivery. But let's talk about what the player, what

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Speaker 2: what physics are in play when the players just lining

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Speaker 2: up the putter, so so not swinging it yet.

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Speaker 1: Yep, And so I think let's just say you're hovering

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Speaker 1: it right, yeah, and so h to to hold that putter.

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Speaker 1: You're first kind of holding it at an inclined angle,

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Speaker 1: So there's this to maintain that putter at this inclined

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Speaker 1: angle and for it to not just drop down.

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Speaker 2: This is the li angle.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the liingle. There's a torque that you're

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Speaker 1: applying right in your hands, you feel it to keep

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Speaker 1: that putter from, you know, not just dropping straight down.

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Speaker 1: Depending on the depth of that center of gravity in

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Speaker 1: the putter head, so a mallet may have a really

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Speaker 1: deep CG. A blade might have something that's a little

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Speaker 1: closer to like the shaft axis. You can move that

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Speaker 1: shaft axis and we'll talk about onset and offset relative

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Speaker 1: to that center of gravity. But the deeper that CG,

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Speaker 1: the more that putter might want to open up. So

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Speaker 1: you end up having to at setup if you're hovering

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Speaker 1: that putter, provide a torque kind of about the grip

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Speaker 1: axis or about the shaft axis to keep it from

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Speaker 1: rocking open at times. And I'd argue that's not a

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Speaker 1: bad thing. It's a signal. It's something that you can

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Speaker 1: use to understand where the face is pointed right. It's

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Speaker 1: it's it's something it's a response that you're having to

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Speaker 1: kind of react to, and that could be a good thing, right,

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Speaker 1: It's something you can use to set up. And then

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Speaker 1: obviously you're you're holding it up right, So there's this

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Speaker 1: force that you're you're using to kind of hold the

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Speaker 1: putter above the ground.

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Speaker 2: So depending on where the center gravity is, where the

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Speaker 2: hozzle position is, you're you're going to be probably no

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Speaker 2: matter what the putter you're going to be, you're going

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Speaker 2: to be applying some torque to maintain the liing goal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then and then the amount of you know, kind

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Speaker 2: of about the grip torque your appliing is going to

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Speaker 2: be dependent on the hozzle position, center gravity relations. Okay,

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Speaker 2: now that's what you're doing kind of just statically, you're

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Speaker 2: aiming it, maybe you're hovering it, you're kind of light.

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Speaker 2: You've seen some players kind of lightly tap the plutter

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Speaker 2: things of this nature. Uh, Then what happens like when

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Speaker 2: you're making your main stroke? What what what's at play?

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Speaker 2: What a golfer's feeling and sensing in that aspect.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So you did a lot of research on this

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Speaker 1: right when we first started, and it's kind of how

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Speaker 1: we are fit for stroke philosophy, It kind of evolved,

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Speaker 1: and so looking at you know, when you start moving

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Speaker 1: that putter, there's going to be players that don't rotate

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Speaker 1: the face a lot. You're kind of, I'm keeping this

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Speaker 1: thing square pendulum. You know, maybe they bend over a

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Speaker 1: lot and try and keep it so the face doesn't

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Speaker 1: rotate a lot during the stroke. And then you know,

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Speaker 1: you think of some other really prominent, you know, really

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Speaker 1: good putters in the game. Right you see their their

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Speaker 1: face swinging open and closed. And so when you do that,

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Speaker 1: you're you're using the center of gravity to feel where

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Speaker 1: the face is pointed, and you have to apply some

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Speaker 1: different torques and forces to get that putter to move

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Speaker 1: and that face to rotate kind of along the path

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Speaker 1: that you're you know, it feels best to you. And

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Speaker 1: so you know, you take something that's really he'll shafted.

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Speaker 1: This is an old Carston III. And if you don't

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Speaker 1: apply any torque and you pull it back, it's natural

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Speaker 1: tendency is to shut a little bit and then open.

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Speaker 1: But during anybody who takes a you know, putting stroke,

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Speaker 1: they're probably going to open that face a little bit.

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Speaker 1: So they're providing a torque to counteract a tendency for

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Speaker 1: this to shut by opening it, which, again, like we

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Speaker 1: can debate whether that's a good or bad thing, I'd

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Speaker 1: argue that that actually helps provide some feedback to the

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Speaker 1: player of where the face is pointed right, and so

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Speaker 1: that definitely has a big influence where that center gravity

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Speaker 1: of the putter head is, or the center gravity of

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Speaker 1: the full putter is on what you feel when you

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Speaker 1: make that stroke. And ultimately, you talked about consistency, right,

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Speaker 1: Our goal is to match up that waiting and that

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Speaker 1: balance with a player's natural movement tendencies provide a very

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Speaker 1: consistent stroke, repeatable and so constantly trying to match those up,

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Speaker 1: and there's gonna be maybe some different combinations that work

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Speaker 1: for different players as a result of that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I always think of Kevin Sullerland, who was one

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Speaker 2: of our players that had the very he almost he

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Speaker 2: was the one that almost sometimes on it. We got

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Speaker 2: him on iping closed the face almost slightly on the backstroke,

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Speaker 2: and he always used like a center center shafted putter.

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Speaker 2: You know, Louis had the beautiful stroke, just a lot

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Speaker 2: of rotation. You could, you could so much so you

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Speaker 2: could see it visually even when you didn't put him

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Speaker 2: on iping right, yep. And he always liked the heel

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Speaker 2: shafted you know, the ZB and some of other very

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Speaker 2: strong arc putters. And I think what's interesting with that, Eric,

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Speaker 2: is that is what happens in the backstroke. You know,

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Speaker 2: I always find that interesting the more we go down

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Speaker 2: this rabbit hole of what the player's doing in the backstroke.

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Speaker 2: So talk a little bit about that, and then how

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Speaker 2: that response to that manifests itself in the ford stroke

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Speaker 2: and maybe with different hozzle types, what is the result

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Speaker 2: on like the delivered face angle, which ultimately that's what

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Speaker 2: we're trying to Yeah, it's the king of hitting your

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Speaker 2: start line here.

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Speaker 1: So with you mentioned Louis so, I remember when he

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Speaker 1: came in. It was right after he played in the

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Speaker 1: open one. It's twenty ten and uh he won it

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Speaker 1: with an answer five right, So something very similar to

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Speaker 1: this model. So a blade where if you looked at

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Speaker 1: the shaft axis relative to the CG, it was right

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Speaker 1: in front of it, so face balanced, and came in.

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Speaker 1: We measured him and he had all this rotation in

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Speaker 1: his stroke and we're like, hmm, okay, well this is

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Speaker 1: counter to what we were expecting, right yep. And then

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Speaker 1: we started asking him some questions about why he gravitated

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Speaker 1: toward that model, and uh, what he said was, well,

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Speaker 1: I was really struggling missing to the right, pushing my putts,

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Speaker 1: and I picked us up and it just like it was.

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Speaker 1: It was fantastic, Like it seemed like it just eliminated

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Speaker 1: that miss to the right and I could just swing

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Speaker 1: with confidence. And so for him, his mess tendency kind

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Speaker 1: of outweighed what he was experiencing kind of during the stroke.

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Speaker 1: And so that leads us down to a path of like, okay,

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Speaker 1: well he's this is Louis just won the open you know,

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Speaker 1: that's what he's talking about. Let's let's dive into this

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Speaker 1: a little bit more. And so sure enough, we ran

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Speaker 1: some testing with heel shafted putters and face bounced putters

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Speaker 1: and realized, okay, uh, yeah, he's right, something that a

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Speaker 1: heel shafted blade ends up being delivered a little more

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Speaker 1: open then face bounced one, and that then let us

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Speaker 1: down a path of doing some more kinetic studies. And

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Speaker 1: so I think you've had Sasha on right yep.

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Speaker 2: Ye.

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Speaker 1: So, and you guys, you guys, are tight, start business together.

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Speaker 1: So caught up Sasso and asked them about the kinetics involved.

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Speaker 1: So kinetics, you have kinematics, which is the study of motion.

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Speaker 1: You have kinetics, which is okay, the forces that create

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Speaker 1: that motion, the forces and torques like so what, let's

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Speaker 1: run a little study here and see what's going on.

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Speaker 1: And so with the heel shafted putter, you see that

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Speaker 1: somebody has to be very active in what they apply,

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Speaker 1: which you would expect, right. You have this center of

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Speaker 1: mass that's kind of off the shaft axis, and they

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Speaker 1: have to be very active, like I talked about earlier,

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Speaker 1: to kind of open and close the face. So you

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Speaker 1: see this signal and their torque about the grip that's

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Speaker 1: pretty prominent, and you don't see that with the face

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Speaker 1: balance putter. And so the other really fascinating thing though,

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Speaker 1: is that, okay, they have to be really active with

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Speaker 1: their torque. In that study, all the players with the

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Speaker 1: heel shafted answer putter ended up having a higher angular

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Speaker 1: velocity coming into impact, so the rotation rate, the rate

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Speaker 1: at which the face was closing was higher. But it

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Speaker 1: was almost like okay, I realized I got to square

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Speaker 1: the face up.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: And so you turn up your torque to do it,

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Speaker 1: but you still leave it open. And it's just like

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Speaker 1: I mean, you put a bunch of lead tape on

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Speaker 1: the tower driver, it's going to be harder to square up.

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Speaker 1: And so you have this balance of Okay, we can

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Speaker 1: match kind of the overall feedback they're getting from the

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Speaker 1: putter with the balance of it. Right, So how much

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Speaker 1: signal do I need to make a repeatable stroke, repeatable

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Speaker 1: face motion? But then you can kind of influence it,

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Speaker 1: influence the delivery. Then that delivery a little bit by

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Speaker 1: also moving the center amiss in tone. And so there's

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Speaker 1: the different variables that you spent a lot of your

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Speaker 1: time studying fitting that you can use to kind of

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Speaker 1: match a putter up to a player.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's what I love about that Louis story

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Speaker 2: is that you know, our normal fitting methodology would be

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Speaker 2: and he and he has used as he's changed, maybe

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Speaker 2: his aim and players evolve over time. Maybe it changes

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Speaker 2: aim a little bit. He he fixes his push tendency

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Speaker 2: in another way, he would go into more of a

256
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Speaker 2: towdown putter. Yeah, the ZB or whatever slide slide arc

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Speaker 2: putter in our vernacular and still putt great. I think

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Speaker 2: it's interesting in that study we round with Sasho, it's

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Speaker 2: kind of always hard to wrap your brain around this,

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Speaker 2: that the that the closure rate is faster, so the

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Speaker 2: to is going faster than the heel, but the face

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Speaker 2: is still delivered open. Yeah, but fitting one on one,

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Speaker 2: I think even if you can't measure your stroke, how

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Speaker 2: much face rotation you have, Uh, there's this great signal.

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Speaker 2: And we've we've run this study many times that if

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Speaker 2: you pull your putts go to more totdown putter, if

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Speaker 2: you push your putts go to more face bounce putter.

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Speaker 2: That's what we saw with louis one hundred percent. And

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Speaker 2: what percentage eric of the stone art line of the

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Speaker 2: putt is the face angle? Right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's about ninety and so done a bunch of

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Speaker 1: studies on this through the bag, right, But for a putter,

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Speaker 1: face is really important. It accounts for ninety percent of

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Speaker 1: where that ball is going to start.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's uh, we're looking at some fun putters here. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: let's look at this one where it all began. Tell

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Speaker 2: us a little bit about the the one A and uh,

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Speaker 2: and just I think what's fun to think about with

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Speaker 2: this one is in the way I kind of think

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Speaker 2: about this Putter Eric is that it brought in forgiveness

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Speaker 2: for mishits yep. And then when Carston really put ping

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Speaker 2: on the map, it was maybe forgiveness for your stroke.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, Hell, I love how you frame that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we'll give us your thoughts on the one A yeah,

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Speaker 2: and then how Carston kind of evolved his way and

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Speaker 2: into into the plumber's neck and in the answer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So this is one of the very early the

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Speaker 1: uh one as it is called a no model because

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Speaker 1: there's no model on there. And what's fascinating to me,

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Speaker 1: so the these you know, come from the archives with

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Speaker 1: Rob our historian, and what's fascinating to me about this

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Speaker 1: one is that it's one of the first one A's

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Speaker 1: obviously he's he'll toe waiting right, put all put all

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Speaker 1: the weight as far to the heel and the toast possible,

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Speaker 1: maximizing m y It's just it's been in our DNA

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Speaker 1: from the very beginning, and he did what I would

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Speaker 1: have done too. I just stuck the chef right in

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Speaker 1: the middle, right like right through uh where the center

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Speaker 1: of mass would be on this potterhead. So it's uh

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Speaker 1: it's pretty zero torque if I may.

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Speaker 2: Uh so, if you kind of hang it on your finger,

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Speaker 2: twist a lot of resistance.

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Speaker 1: And so I think when we talk about torque, and

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Speaker 1: let me kind of expand on that a little bit,

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Speaker 1: but I think that turn has been thrown around a lot.

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Speaker 1: We talked about the torque to keep it on incline plane.

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Speaker 1: We talked the torque that's being applied to kind of

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Speaker 1: open and close the face. That idea of zero torque

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Speaker 1: or torque and putters right now, it's applying a lot

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Speaker 1: to the opening closing in the face. And I think

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Speaker 1: in particular when you set up right, so there's this

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Speaker 1: kind of resting moment that tends to open the face.

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Speaker 1: If this center of mass is off the either shaft

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Speaker 1: axis or grip axis. If the grip is not in

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Speaker 1: line with the shaft, there's some grips out there that

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Speaker 1: are maybe a little crooked. So what's important is Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's the axis about which I'm grabbing it, and so

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Speaker 1: that's going to have a tendency to maybe those low

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Speaker 1: torque zero torque putters might not have a big signal

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Speaker 1: where the face is pointed, just it's set up when

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Speaker 1: you hover it. So when I say zero torque this

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Speaker 1: one right, it's the shaft is going and the grip

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Speaker 1: acxs is going right through the center of mass. What's

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Speaker 1: fascinating to me is like, this is the first one,

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Speaker 1: but anybody who has a one an at home. I

326
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Speaker 1: realized that, actually that shaft is no longer right through

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Speaker 1: the center of mass.

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Speaker 2: Right.

329
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:10,080
Speaker 1: He did that early on and realized, h I got

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Speaker 1: to move it off that, and so we started moving

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Speaker 1: it toward the heel. There's a lot of putters in

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Speaker 1: Rob's office where he started bending the shaft right, had

333
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,159
Speaker 1: a couple of them here. We did that, and he

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Speaker 1: was constantly trying to use an offset from the center

335
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,240
Speaker 1: of mass of the putter head relative to the shaft

336
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Speaker 1: or the grip to give that player that haptic feedback,

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Speaker 1: you know, to execute a putt. And so that was

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Speaker 1: something that was just embedded, like in Carson's DNA. He

339
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Speaker 1: went away from this and kind of never looked back.

340
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,720
Speaker 1: Everything since then has some sort of offset between the

341
00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:51,680
Speaker 1: grip access for the shaft and then the center of

342
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:52,359
Speaker 1: mass of the head.

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Speaker 2: So this original we're looking at here not a lot

344
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Speaker 2: of torque. Would be the idea of maybe pushing something

345
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,879
Speaker 2: at the CG versus pulling it.

346
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Speaker 1: Yeah, So he always wanted to use the center of

347
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:09,359
Speaker 1: gravity relative to the shaft axis of their grip to

348
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:13,440
Speaker 1: your advantage. And so we always wanted to either be

349
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:18,399
Speaker 1: pulling it straight through or pulling it around. And so

350
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Speaker 1: I had this young engineer right I'm at my desk,

351
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Speaker 1: this is fifteen years ago, and I was like, man,

352
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Speaker 1: I got this idea for power. It's gonna be great.

353
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Speaker 1: And I was like, he's going to max out, moi.

354
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Speaker 1: John A's gonna love it, right, And so its a

355
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Speaker 1: big five inch square basically, and I put all the

356
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:41,159
Speaker 1: mass out in the corners him high, MOI. And I

357
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 1: was looking at kind of this inertia. It's called a tensor,

358
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,800
Speaker 1: but these terms on a putter that influenced kind of

359
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:49,680
Speaker 1: those forces and torques, and I'm like, I'm going to

360
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:51,760
Speaker 1: minimize all of them. It's gonna put the chaft right

361
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Speaker 1: through the middle. And so it's it's pretty much like

362
00:19:55,680 --> 00:20:00,080
Speaker 1: this putter, except imagine it as a big square a

363
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 1: bunch of onset on it, like two and a half

364
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,399
Speaker 1: inches of onset. So the front of that putter is

365
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,119
Speaker 1: going to be moving up at the bottom of the stroke.

366
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 1: It's going to roll great. And John A comes by

367
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,080
Speaker 1: my desk and you know, I'm just getting to know

368
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,879
Speaker 1: him and hands on my shoulder, what are you working on?

369
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,200
Speaker 1: This is like this very fatherly tone, like it's incredible,

370
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,720
Speaker 1: like just imprinted on my mind this conversation. I'm like, well,

371
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Speaker 1: I'm really excited about it. Click, got damn oi really

372
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,800
Speaker 1: high and I got this idea where I want to

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Speaker 1: minimize all this and he's and he's like, well, are

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Speaker 1: you going to know where the face is pointed? It's like,

375
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,400
Speaker 1: you know, it's going right through the center of gravity,

376
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:39,600
Speaker 1: Like you can use that to understand where the face

377
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,679
Speaker 1: is pointed. That's that's a good point. And he's like

378
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,880
Speaker 1: and he's like, if ever Carston used to talk about

379
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,160
Speaker 1: this world barrow analogy? Did you ever have you ever

380
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,119
Speaker 1: heard that? And I was like no, no, I hadn't.

381
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,000
Speaker 1: And so he's like, well, when you go up a

382
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 1: curb with a wheelbarrow, what do you do. I'm like, well,

383
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,440
Speaker 1: you turn around and pull the cg up the curb

384
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,160
Speaker 1: cause it's way more stable, and he's like exactly. And

385
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,439
Speaker 1: then he got up and went on and and and

386
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,960
Speaker 1: visited with some others. And so he if you think

387
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,480
Speaker 1: about and I ran this analogy by him last week,

388
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 1: like a water skier kind of going behind a boat,

389
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,639
Speaker 1: and uh, and if the boat's going straight, if the

390
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,440
Speaker 1: water skier gets a little offline like that, that water

391
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 1: skiers like the CG. And this analogy, right, like he's

392
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,439
Speaker 1: going to keep going back to the center line, right,

393
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 1: because he's pulling away, and it's always going to square

394
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,720
Speaker 1: back up to where the boat is traveling and the

395
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 1: direction the boat is traveling. So that's pulling the CG.

396
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,480
Speaker 1: That's like face balance putterer. And then if the boat's

397
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,480
Speaker 1: taking a turn right and and and the water skier

398
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 1: is kind of going around still a stable movement, right,

399
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 1: that's more like a heel shafted putter pulling the CG around.

400
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,119
Speaker 1: And so again, Carson always wanted to use center of

401
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 1: gravity to his advantage and to provide feedback to the

402
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 1: player and help them make a consistent like stroke. And

403
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 1: I thought those two things totally influenced how I viewed

404
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,880
Speaker 1: putters moving forward and the type of research. It's really

405
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 1: cool about this, right, there's so much history here, yeah,

406
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 1: and elements that of how Carston philosophy has evolved and

407
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 1: now we have all this technology to then go out

408
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,400
Speaker 1: and like actually like prove a lot of those things

409
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 1: that he found by just intuition.

410
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, Eric, one test I remember doing, you know a

411
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,679
Speaker 2: year or two or ago, was you know, you conduct

412
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 2: it yourself, went into went into the lab and you

413
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 2: had us I don't know if you blindfolded us or

414
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 2: had us close our eyes and you took away that sense. Yeah,

415
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 2: what tell us a little bit about that experiment you ran.

416
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 2: It relates exactly to this is of kind of like, hey,

417
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 2: how are you going to know where you're point in

418
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 2: the face? Yeah, and what you found with that experiment, and.

419
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 1: The seed was planned for that back with that conversation

420
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 1: I had with John a like during my first year here,

421
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 1: and so the idea came about. I started looking into

422
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,439
Speaker 1: this area called dynamic touch, and it's basically the study

423
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 1: of haptic appropriate reception and the idea of how it

424
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 1: does what we feel and the balance of objects influence

425
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:27,719
Speaker 1: our ability to complete a task. And so I wanted

426
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 1: to kind of maximize the sense of touch being inspired

427
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: by dynamic touch. And there's for those kind of listening

428
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 1: or watching, there's a really cool if you google Ian Waterman.

429
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 1: He's an individual who had a really rare condition where

430
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 1: he lost all basically haptic appropriateception, all feeling kind of

431
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 1: from the neck down. So we had to learn how

432
00:23:55,240 --> 00:24:01,679
Speaker 1: to operate, balance, move his hand purely by looking. So

433
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 1: he has to use his site to execute any task

434
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: because he can't feel, like when you walk, you're constantly

435
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:14,400
Speaker 1: feeling yeah, pressure in your feet and and and it's

436
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 1: fascinating how much our touch influences how we're able to

437
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 1: operate as humans. So I'd encourage people to kind of

438
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: google that, and because it's fascinating.

439
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 2: Reverse of being blindfolded exactly something exactly.

440
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 1: And so he lost his touch, I'm like, well, okay,

441
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: like let's find out the importance of that with putting.

442
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: And so I had four different prototypes, all of the

443
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 1: same model, and then I oriented ended up orienting the

444
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 1: grip axis in different points. One ironed the graph axis

445
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: right through the center of mass of the putter, one

446
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,239
Speaker 1: way forward, one way to side, one way heelside. And

447
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 1: it was a round grip like three D printed, put

448
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: it on there, and I'd put it in no flats,

449
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 1: no flats or anything. So you're you're purely dependent on

450
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: the balance of that putter to understand where the face

451
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: is pointed. So I put it in your hands and

452
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: random orientation. I'm like, set it up and point the face.

453
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: And the ones where people were more repeatable pointing the face,

454
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: it might have been in the wrong direction, but they'd

455
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,880
Speaker 1: set up in the same way the farther away that axis,

456
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,400
Speaker 1: that grip axis was from the center of mass, right,

457
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 1: It wasn't going right through it. It was you were maximizing

458
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: that kind of offset between that axis and the center

459
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: of mass in the head. The one one of the

460
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: grip went right through it. People like, I have no

461
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: idea where is appointed and this blindfold random. This is blindfolded,

462
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 1: So no beneficite using just purely your your feel in

463
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 1: your hands. And so in doing that, right, You're like,

464
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: why would I want to take away that sense? Right,

465
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: I'd want to turn that up. That's what they can

466
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: use to, you know, be more consistent. No where the

467
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 1: face is pointed. And it goes way back to like

468
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: John A said, man, how do you know where the

469
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: face is pointed if you don't have any any torque

470
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:06,479
Speaker 1: to feel it?

471
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 2: Yeah? Interesting, Yeah, I know. I Equally as much as

472
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 2: the popularity of you know, on set lower torque putters

473
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 2: and what have you, is a lot of folks using

474
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 2: heel shafted ballants, right. Is that you know we've made

475
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,959
Speaker 2: the floaky in the hardwood and some of these putters

476
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 2: where we do maximize that distance. Is that kind of

477
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 2: the theory behind that for some players?

478
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so the deeper that CG is, you're kind

479
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 1: of maximizing it rest that kind of resting moment that

480
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: helps you point the face. And then with those heel

481
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: shaft ones, you're moving that CG kind of or the

482
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: shaft heelside right maximize. So during their stroke when they're

483
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: trying to open and close the face, they're getting a

484
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: really good signal over where that face is pointed. And

485
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,360
Speaker 1: it could be more repeatable. Right, It's it's it's greater resistance.

486
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: And so I think there's a good connection between resistance

487
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: and precision in a lot of different ways.

488
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 2: Uh, let's take a look at Eric, Let's take a

489
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 2: look at this favor I'm looking at the and it's

490
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:14,719
Speaker 2: pointed out ahead here, and tell us what's going on

491
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 2: with this with this putter from the archives.

492
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's a number of bends in this one.

493
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: So rob was kind to us and gave us a

494
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 1: shaft not only with a bend that people are probably

495
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: familiar with right down here, uh, you know, about five

496
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: inches up from the head, but there's also a bend

497
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: right under the grip. And Carsten designed the Balnamic shaft

498
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 1: to have the grip tilted in such a way that

499
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: it pointed toward the ball both in front of the

500
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: potter head at the ball, and then it's tilted a

501
00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: little bit up toward the toe. And so you know,

502
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: I made you take some strokes with this to feel it,

503
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,479
Speaker 1: because it's a it's an incredible feeling when you make

504
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: a stroke with this, and it highlights the reason he

505
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 1: did that was he's going back. I want to pull

506
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 1: the cg right. So I want to I know, the

507
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 1: center of mass of my head is back here. How

508
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 1: can I get my grip access to be pulling that

509
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: while I'm going to bend the shaft. Fortunately, the oshad

510
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: wasn't a big fan uh and uh, and so he

511
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: wasn't able to do that anymore. But what that led

512
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: him to do was invent the plumber's neck, which is

513
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: really cool. Right, So, all right, speed bump on the

514
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: road I'm going to get innovative and try and fix this.

515
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: And so he ended up creating the plumber's neck. And

516
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: for those of you when I say plumbers neck, aren't

517
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: familiar with that. So basically that's the common hozzle that

518
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: you see on most answer stylezz potters right now. And

519
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: so he was able to get that shaft axis pointed

520
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: at the all by putting a bunch of offset on

521
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 1: his hozzle at the top of the hozzle and created

522
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: that sensation of pulling the center of mass by incorporating

523
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: offset in a plumber's neck. Is just it's crazy to

524
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: me that he just was like, Okay, well fine, I'll

525
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: find another way to do it and created one of

526
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: the most i mean the most famous hozzle geometry and

527
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:28,719
Speaker 1: putter design.

528
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, still out there on a lot of putters today

529
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 2: for that reason. So so just going back to the one,

530
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 2: A a lot of inertia that comes into play if

531
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 2: you don't hit your putt perfectly right, you know, heel

532
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 2: and toe and then everything we're talking about with pulling

533
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 2: the CG that's even more stability or forgiveness during the stroke.

534
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: Correct. Correct.

535
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 2: I've also seen some research in our golf science stuff Erica,

536
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 2: where we've looked at face angle variability during the stroke, right,

537
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 2: and how putter properties Hazzele position can influence that. Now

538
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 2: that we have these tools to kind of X raym right,

539
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 2: tell us a little bit about face angle variability kind

540
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 2: of during the stroke and the impact of Hazzle position

541
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 2: on that.

542
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I mean this goes into our fit for

543
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: stroke philosophy, right, And I think depending on how much

544
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: rotation you have and just cognitively how you respond to

545
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: that balance of a putter, there's gonna be an optimal

546
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: center mass location that leads to greater consistency. And so

547
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: that's what drives our fit for stroke philosophy. I think

548
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: it goes to the resistance, right, the resistance to rotation

549
00:30:54,800 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: leading to precision. And then that also another study where

550
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: we ended up using kind of an iron grip and

551
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: moving the cg back and similarly kind of put had

552
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 1: people try to orient the putter multiple times and looked

553
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: at how repeatable they were when they had to orient

554
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: the putter without the benefit of sight multiple times, and

555
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: they got way more repeatable. The bigger that offset was,

556
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: the bigger that torque was, because it was a bigger

557
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: signal for them to adjust and feel. And so I

558
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: think what's really kind of cool about all that is

559
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: that there's there's a huge fitting nugget in there, right,

560
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 1: Like you can improve your repeatability if you're well fit.

561
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, let's don't a click on that idea

562
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 2: of a resistance for precision where else? I know I've

563
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,239
Speaker 2: heard Sasho talk about throwing darts and somebody putting on

564
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 2: like their wedding ring, switching out for one hand to

565
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 2: the other.

566
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, give yourself a little more precise. Yeah, what other

567
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: uh sports.

568
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 2: Domains applications do you see folks kind of getting the

569
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 2: right resistance to enhance their precision.

570
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I mean surgical tools, right, you know you'll

571
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: see a really lightweight surgical tool. Right. They all have

572
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: some resistance to them meant to improve precision. Right, we're

573
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: going to be opening somebody up. You want to be

574
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: very precise, don't want to nick the wrong thing. Uh.

575
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 2: To me, it's a golf pencil. I always have a

576
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 2: hard time with my Yeah, pencils too light, you know,

577
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 2: I can't feel where it's pointed.

578
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: I think you see it. You know, heavy piano keys

579
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: right on a grand piano being able to, you know,

580
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: have that tactile feedback on on piano keys. I think,

581
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: you know, my son's fourteen, and he's like, hey, Dad,

582
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: I want to start going to the gym. Great, and

583
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: so go to the gym. I ended up calling up

584
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: Sasha and I'm like, dude, some wants to start, you know,

585
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: lifting ways you know how me out proke sure I

586
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: don't give me a little program here to make sure

587
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: I'm not putting him down the wrong path. And so

588
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: we chatted and it was really crazy to me. As

589
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: he got him down on a bench, give him two dumbbells.

590
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm going to give him the lightest things

591
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: I can find because I don't.

592
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 2: I don't want to hurt him.

593
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: And and he's never done a bench press before, right,

594
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: and so it's like this giraffe learning to walk thing him,

595
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: you know, because they're super light. So he's having a

596
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: hard time even you know. And I'm like, oh, he

597
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: needs he needs more weight so he has some resistance

598
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: and he can like feel where it's going. I don't

599
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: want to get him too much weight, right, because then

600
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: other things will happen. Put a little more resistance in there.

601
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: All a sudden, his form got way better because I

602
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: added some resistance to his motion, And I thought it

603
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: was a great analogy of like, you know, how adding

604
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: some resistance some inertia can improve precision. And so as

605
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: we're talking about putters, have somebody who's rotating the face

606
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: a lot, you know, you give them something, he'll shafted

607
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 1: and the cg's off that off that hostle access that

608
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: grip access a lot. They're gonna have more resistance, but

609
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: that resistance is going to help them be really precise

610
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: because they need it. They if they're moving their face

611
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: around a lot, there's a lot more degrees for them

612
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: to square up. If they're opening it a lot on

613
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: the backswing. Yeah, yeah, versus somebody who maybe doesn't, I

614
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,320
Speaker 1: don't need as much resistance when they go back, but

615
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: you still want to be pulling the CG right. So

616
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: that's Carson, you know, ended up gravitating a lot toward

617
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: the face balance putters because he felt like, hey, that's

618
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: stable coming through. But there's that magic mix depending on

619
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 1: how much rotation you have to help improve precision and

620
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: provide the right resistance right for a given player to

621
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: help them be as precise as possible.

622
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 2: I think that's a big thing we've tried to do

623
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 2: in our fitting philosophy, whether it's ipaying, handicap score, just incentivizing,

624
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 2: trying to incentivize and measure that repeatability. I mean, it's

625
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 2: all the fundamentals of a fitting with ipaying. Here in

626
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 2: the putting lab is somebody is not matched to the

627
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 2: right resistance for them effectively, and we get him into

628
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 2: something matches better, their repeatability goes up. We can measure

629
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,439
Speaker 2: it and then have success out on the golf course.

630
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and walk away with a lot of confidence.

631
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: So, Eric, let's transition to a little bit to onset offset,

632
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 2: because you pull the CG using offset.

633
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: Yep.

634
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,720
Speaker 2: But here we are we have we have Corey Connors,

635
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 2: one of our best putters and players, using our Alley

636
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 2: Blue onset putter. Yeah, so tell us a little bit

637
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 2: about the benefits of onset and what physics properties are

638
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 2: in play here that still allow him to Is this

639
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 2: thing still pulling the CG or not? Great question.

640
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 1: So we've there's a number of different variables at play

641
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 1: with this design, right, and so to answer your first question, yes,

642
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: it is still pulling the CG. The CG is located

643
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: off that shaft axis right, it's a little bit of

644
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 1: toe hang on this, but it definitely keys in at

645
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 1: a certain angle when you hold it up like that,

646
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 1: and that helps Corey and players who use this model

647
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: still feel where the face is pointed. It's set up

648
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: and relative to maybe an alley blue with like a

649
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: plumber's neck. The cg's not as deep relative to that axis,

650
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: so it's going to feel as it moves through the

651
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: putting stroke for Corey less like a mallet and more

652
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: like a blade. Because we've moved that shaft axis back

653
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: closer to the center of mass. It's not in line

654
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: with the center of mass. It's not above the center

655
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 1: of mass toe side of the center of mass, it's

656
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 1: forward of the center of mass, and healside. It's going

657
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: to have those torques that maybe he feels with a blade,

658
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,720
Speaker 1: but give him the forgiveness in the footprint of a mallet,

659
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 1: which is really cool.

660
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 2: So something feel wise that might be a little bit

661
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 2: more like an answer, ye.

662
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 1: Okay, somewhere between an answer and I'd say B sixty.

663
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 2: And what have we seen. We've done a good bit

664
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 2: of testing just on onset in general. What have we

665
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 2: seen with some of the benefits of onset for certain players.

666
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 2: What might somebody need to do. We're just starting to

667
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 2: incorporate this in the lab with these putters from a

668
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 2: fitting standpoint, based on how it's delivered and things of

669
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 2: that nature.

670
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would we as a team, we're fascinated to see. Okay,

671
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: we're changing going from offset to onset, but with that,

672
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: we're also changing the balance of a putter. And so

673
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 1: we had limit curves for center of mass relative to

674
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: the shaft, axss, heel, toe, and deep, and so we're like, okay,

675
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,919
Speaker 1: we're moving closer to the center of mass, so it's

676
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: probably going to be delivered little more closed, not more open,

677
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: right you go, heel shafted, more open, more face balance

678
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: more closed. So we have that variable going. But then

679
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 1: we also have limit curves on offset and no offset,

680
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 1: and we knew that as you take offset off, people

681
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 1: tend to set up and deliver the face a little

682
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: more open, which like, this has both those going on.

683
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: It's got one variable at saying this is going to

684
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: be a little more open because I'm taking away my offset,

685
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: but maybe I'm going to square it up a little

686
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: easier because I'm moving the center of mask closer to

687
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: the shaft axis. And so what we found in our

688
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:43,360
Speaker 1: testing is with this particular model, players comparing that to

689
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 1: something that's say got a plumber's neck on it, or

690
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: maybe a double bend with a little bit of offset,

691
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 1: they're tending going to tend to deliver it a little

692
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 1: more open. And if somebody, say typically use a face

693
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: balance putter or a s balance mallet and then miss left,

694
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: this might be a really good option left for a

695
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: right handed golfer if they pull their putts, this might

696
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 1: be a really good option because it biases because it's

697
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 1: got on set. It's biasing a player to be a

698
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,280
Speaker 1: little more square if they tend to pull their putts.

699
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 1: And so it's a cool addition to our kind of

700
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:27,760
Speaker 1: mix of putters and fitting options because it can fix

701
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: a miss tendency in a way that if we just

702
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: went facing, there's only so much you could do. You

703
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: either gonna have to put them in a heel shafted

704
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 1: putter to get them to like leave the face a

705
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: little more open. But now you're messing with what naturally

706
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: might work for them from a face rotation standpoint during

707
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: the stroke and give them something that will kind of

708
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 1: help fight that miss tendency of.

709
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 2: A polls new fitting, new fitting option, the.

710
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: Unlocked a new fitting option.

711
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 2: So that's what I'm very excited about. I also love

712
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 2: the when we worked on this putter, Tony Serrano or

713
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,800
Speaker 2: our principal putter designer, he made a bunch of different versions, right, Yeah,

714
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 2: tell us a little bit about the how we landed

715
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 2: on the fifteen degrees toe down and you know how

716
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,879
Speaker 2: deep the CG is where we placed the hoesle, etc.

717
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we had a five degree He was kind

718
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: of doing it in terms of toe hang, but basically

719
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: he's moving that shaft access. He's there closer to the

720
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 1: center line of the putter or more heelside. And we

721
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: landed at the fifteen for this particular model because it

722
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 1: fit right at the center of the bell curve of

723
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: our fitting philosophies. So we we categorize this as like

724
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 1: a for somebody who fits into our slight art category,

725
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: which is a good sixty to seventy percent of all

726
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 1: players fit into that category. And so we have some

727
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 1: options on tour right now that maybe if somebody's a

728
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 1: little more straight back straight through, we go to the

729
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 1: one where the uh, the shaft is inserted a little

730
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: closer to the center line. Somebody's got a lot of rotation,

731
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 1: we'll give them the option that tony design that's maybe

732
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: got that, or that has that shaft axis inserting a

733
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:16,439
Speaker 1: little closer to the heel, and so all those have

734
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,359
Speaker 1: the onset so you get to see the full kind

735
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: of top rail, right, So no distraction of hozzle geometries

736
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: if that's something that you're sensitive to. So another good

737
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: benefit of this sort of design. And so yeah, right

738
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 1: now that fifteen is kind of the most popular one,

739
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: but that's just because that's kind of fit in the

740
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:37,399
Speaker 1: center of the bell curve.

741
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 2: Luz, there's so much there's so much, so much fun

742
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 2: in this top Yeah. One other piece and I remember

743
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 2: doing this when we were working on late some Ladies

744
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 2: driver's research. Was, Uh, we were just asking a bunch

745
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 2: of our target customer to kind of look at some

746
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,040
Speaker 2: sizes of the driver and tell us what we're the

747
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 2: most comfortable with. And at the time I was, I

748
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,879
Speaker 2: was working on our Ladies driving design and I max

749
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 2: it out to the USG limit five inch by five

750
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 2: inch box and a lot of the ladies said, hey,

751
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 2: this the headweight was light you know, it was like

752
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty eight grams, and a lot of

753
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 2: the ladies were like, well, this looks heavy, you know,

754
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 2: like it's just it's gonna be too heavy. Yeah, but

755
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 2: the actual mass was the same. Tell us a little bit.

756
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 2: We start off with the optics is one of the

757
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 2: first piece of feedback to the putter of how size

758
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 2: or maybe what you're feeling dynamically with the CG offset

759
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 2: impacts the weight of the putter. And I think you know,

760
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 2: one thing I always like to do to test us

761
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 2: with folks is set up to a putter, then you

762
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 2: flip it one hundred and eighty degrees upside down, close

763
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: my eyes, kind of swing. It feels very light. Yeah,

764
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 2: why why is that? And then maybe the optical piece too.

765
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: Oh, there's so much in there. So there's this I

766
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,479
Speaker 1: mentioned dynamic touch, and this whole study area of dynamic touch,

767
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 1: and one of the studies that's been redone by a

768
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: number of different academics is studying the size of weight illusion.

769
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,879
Speaker 1: And so if you can imagine, you know, you have

770
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, you got a twenty five pound kettlebell, right,

771
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: and then you blow that thing up three times its

772
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: size and keep it at twenty five pounds right, and

773
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: then shrink it down to you know, the size of whatever,

774
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,760
Speaker 1: like a quarter or something twenty five pounds. That quarter

775
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: is going to feel so heavy, right, because you're not

776
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: expecting something that small to feel like twenty five pounds.

777
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:43,959
Speaker 1: But then the thing that's really big right at twenty

778
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 1: five pounds is going to feel super light. And so

779
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: that's really important with putters is you got mallets and

780
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: you have blades, and you don't want to cross the

781
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 1: wires too much in the player and confuse them when

782
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: they're setting up over a putter. You want something to

783
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: feel like it looks right, the interaction between what you're

784
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 1: feeling and what you're seeing like. You don't want to

785
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 1: tax tax them any more than you need to cognitively

786
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: as they're setting up to that. So it typically mounts

787
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 1: are just a little heavier because if you make them

788
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 1: as light as a blade, we can do that using

789
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: different materials. But then it kinda it can get a

790
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 1: little confusing when you set up to them. And so

791
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:26,879
Speaker 1: it's a really cool kind of area study this size

792
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 1: weight allusion something you can google. And then the other

793
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 1: thing that you feel when you set up and that

794
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 1: can influence perceived weight is the more that So for

795
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 1: a mallet, if you have a really deep CG, they

796
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: tend to feel a little heavier because there's this natural

797
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 1: kind of resting torque and resting moment that wants to

798
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: open and so you're you have to apply a little

799
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 1: bit of a torque and your brain thinks, hey, I'm

800
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 1: it's heavier. I gotta I gotta resist this thing just

801
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: holding it. And so all that plays into you know,

802
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: how we perceive weight. The experience that you had when

803
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 1: you're designing that Lady's driver, and we did I remember

804
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: before we found the body of literature, we went around

805
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: and like had some putters of the same weight but

806
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,240
Speaker 1: different size, and did the whole like okay, feel these righto.

807
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 1: And then we say okay, close your eyes. And then

808
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 1: we asked them which one was which and they're like,

809
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 1: I don't know, right, Remember that it was pretty cool, yeah,

810
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 1: and so uh so, yeah, it's a it's a that

811
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 1: area of dynamic touch and how mass properties of an

812
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 1: object can influence what you perceive, what you feel, and

813
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 1: how well you can execute a task is uh yeah,

814
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: it's really rich and something that we're continue to implement

815
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: and the decisions we make with our putter designs.

816
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, just did just the closed the lip on the

817
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 2: Ladies driver. So what we did there was instead of saying, oh,

818
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 2: I need to make the driver smaller, we put a

819
00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 2: little decal offset from the silhouette so it it struck

820
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 2: the balance there. Yeah, right, so the the Ladies mind's

821
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 2: eye captured it smaller visually, right, then you can still

822
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 2: make it big.

823
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: So as that's your plumbers neck finding another solution exactly exaction.

824
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: That's cool.

825
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 2: So I've been using the alley the alley blue, but

826
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 2: with the four houseley because I love tork Henrickson. I

827
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 2: love torq. I love to feel that resistance during the stroke.

828
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 1: Uh.

829
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 2: And it's awesome to now understand the physics of why

830
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 2: that is, you know, continuing down this journey to understand it.

831
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 2: Any last things there you want to touch on on

832
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 2: this topic in general?

833
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I just think there's a it's an exciting

834
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 1: time in putters. I think we've got a lot of

835
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: cool stuff kind of cooking. We we've spent a lot

836
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 1: of time bashing around different technologies and ideas and so

837
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 1: you know, I just I want to highlight that you know,

838
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 1: there are you know, a variety of different ways that

839
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 1: you can wait to putter that match up with different

840
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: players strokes and abilities. And I think when you when

841
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 1: you take away, I just I hesitate to take away

842
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: a sense, right, Yeah, to like minimize one of those

843
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 1: knobs to the point where like, well, I'm now eliminating

844
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:29,319
Speaker 1: its ability to like help somebody. And so that's just

845
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: a philosophy of ours that it's like we want to

846
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 1: maximize that. Like, we think a lot about what we're seeing,

847
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 1: what we're feeling, what we're hearing when we design a

848
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 1: golf club. All those things are really important, and you

849
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 1: don't want to minimize any of those.

850
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 2: Words of wisdom. Words of wisdom. The third time on

851
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 2: Doctor Eric Hennery is so much fun. This was a

852
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 2: fun one. We went down a little little history lesson

853
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 2: right to our contemporary design approach, and hopefully all the

854
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 2: listeners out there, whether they're club fitters or consumers in

855
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 2: the market for a new putter, helping them understand maybe

856
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 2: some putters they've liked in the past, what they're feeling,

857
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 2: what they're sensing. Hopefully there'll be some folks out there

858
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 2: closing their eyes trying to point some putters.

859
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 1: I'll do it.

860
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 2: That's a good way. That is probably a good way

861
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 2: for folks to.

862
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: It.

863
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 2: Is that a good test for folks that do on

864
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 2: their own. Let's say you're going into a putting crawl. Yeah,

865
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 2: you're like, which one of these can I aim the best?

866
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,720
Speaker 2: Is that a protocol folks can do one hundred percent?

867
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: Right? I think it helps. What it'll do is it'll

868
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 1: help maximize that sense. Right, anytime you take away a sense,

869
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 1: all your other senses have to kind of go into overdrive.

870
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 1: So why not when you go into a putter crawl

871
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 1: and you know, not be biased by the alignment alone,

872
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 1: close your eyes and does this still feel as I

873
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 1: swing this? Like it could be precise with it? Yeah,

874
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: because you don't want your eyes to fool you, right,

875
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 1: and the visuals are important, right, but you're not staring

876
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:04,359
Speaker 1: at the thing as you're swinging it, right, And so

877
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 1: by taking that away, it'll kind of heiden your sense

878
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 1: of you know, I see you close your eyes when

879
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: you do a point.

880
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely, you're you're.

881
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: Trying to go in and you're trying to maximize what

882
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: you feel with your feet and minimize all the other senses, right,

883
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: Probably get your hands over your ears if you did too,

884
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 1: but yeah, I love that.

885
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:27,959
Speaker 2: All right, let's end on that one. Thanks for being

886
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 2: with us, and we'll see everyone next time on the

887
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:32,320
Speaker 2: Ping Proving Grounds Podcast