WEBVTT - Left Behind 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:04.400 This is How Men Think with brooks Like and Gavin 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:09.120 DeGraw and I heard radio podcast. Welcome to another episode 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:11.360 of How Men Think. My name is brooks Like. And 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:14.080 our buddy Gavin DeGraw, who you just heard in that 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.880 awesome intro, is running late, probably finishing his steak and 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:22.040 eggs downstairs, surprised at the bel Air Hotel here. So 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:25.880 I am going to grant Mr Dmitri and Mr Rick 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:31.760 co hosting privileges today. It's such and with that you 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:33.960 get Gavin's share of the show as well. I have 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:36.080 so many people to thank for this honor. Brooks Who 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:38.040 would you like to start with? I was just kidding. 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:39.839 I don't really have a lot of people, so we 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:42.360 did his three dollars and thirty three cents. Yeah you do, buddy, 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:45.280 So I'm in on that. Gavin, you have due to 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:48.600 your lateness, you have forfeited your share of today's show, 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:51.040 and Rick and Dmitri, you guys get to pick it up. 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:53.000 I'd rather have his steak and eggs that he's gonna think. 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:57.000 He's a smart one. He's downstairs eating and we're recording 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:01.600 a podcast. But I'm super excited to today's podcast. We 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:03.640 have a very special guest here with us today that 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:06.319 we'll get to in a second. But today's podcast is 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:08.960 about something that I don't think we go into enough. 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:12.559 It's a very hot topic amongst our listeners. It's something 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:16.120 we get reached out to, probably as much as anything 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:19.200 to discuss. And today we want to go into the 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:26.039 discussion of men's mental health depression, UH, suicide prevention, all 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:29.679 the things that men go through that are very rarely 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:33.160 discussed and are sort of taboo in society and culture, 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:36.800 and men actually do not feel empowered or courageous enough 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:39.479 to step up and share with people close to them. 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:41.880 So that's the discussion today. It's gonna be a heavy, 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:46.320 really deep, important conversation. UH. And Rick, we have one 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:49.760 of your friends here who has an amazing story that 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:53.360 she's I want to applaud her. Um, thank you. We 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:56.520 have Kasher here with us who has an amazing story 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:58.720 that that is filled with courage and she's going to 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:01.640 share it to be a vessel of service to our community, 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:03.760 to everybody listening at home. But Rick, I'll let you 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:07.040 t up Kate here. Thank you Kate for coming in, 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:09.800 you know, having me reaching out earlier. And it's been 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:12.280 a long time since we've seen each other. And Kate 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:14.440 and I grew up together in the mean streets in Newport, 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:21.400 and I'm glad you both made it out. It was tough, 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:25.200 it was tough, but we have been childhood friends since 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:29.080 since kindergarten. Really, you know, yeah, so every class, every grade, 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:31.120 every you know, you're a little bit more intelligent than 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.920 I am. But um, it's been great to reconnect, you know, 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:37.000 and thank you for reaching out to me, you know, 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:40.320 since we started doing this podcast. And the topic today 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:42.520 is that you're willing to share with us IS and 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:45.320 coming on IS is very important, and so I think 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:48.520 it's it's important that you, um, you know, I can 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:50.640 share that with us. So thank you. Thank you for 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:53.840 having me and being open to it. So the you 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:56.560 are an avid listener of men, think I am. Yes, 0:02:56.919 --> 0:02:59.080 I love having listeners of the show on the show. 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:01.560 That's the way anybody out there listening, be a listener 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:05.920 if you're um. But so we want to dive into 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:08.560 as much as possible. I want to be sensitive because 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:11.240 even for us, this is a this is a big discussion, 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:14.320 and knowing your story, having some background on your story, 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:18.080 it's even hard in our position to ask these kinds 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:21.280 of questions. I don't in any way want to offend you, 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:23.800 but I want to serve our community and people that 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:25.720 are maybe going through this in their lives as much 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:27.960 as possible. So I'm an open buck. You can ask 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:32.440 me anything you should. My defense mechanism is sarcasm, So 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:37.839 if I throw out something, it's probably cause I'm starting 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:41.480 to sweat or something mine is too. Um So, Kate, 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:43.640 can you give us a little background? We want you 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:47.320 to share your personal story about the conversation of men's 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:52.040 mental health, depression, mental health issues, and an ultimately suicide 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:55.520 and suicide prevention. You believe this topic is rarely discussed 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:57.680 and it's sort of your mission to bring light to it. 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:00.440 Can you share a little bit of your person story? 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:04.200 Of course? So, um what, I am a survivor of 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:06.680 suicide loss. That's sort of how we dub ourselves when 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:09.200 we've lost someone to suicide, because it is really something 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:12.040 that you do, in fact survive. It's a very difficult, 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:16.560 different kind of death to um deal with. I was 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:19.920 twenty eight years old when my husband took his life. 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.520 Uh he was We were living in Colorado at the time. 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.080 I was actually visiting my parents in Colorado, and he'd 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:27.839 sort of gone silent for a few days, and I 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:31.119 had a really bad gut feeling that something was going 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:34.320 on and called a mutual friend and said, you know, 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:36.160 take the high to Key and will you go check 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:38.359 on him. And I got the phone call from the 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:44.560 Sheriff's department about thirty minutes later, and he had uh 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:48.760 utilized carbon monoxide and helium, which a lot of people 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:51.880 don't realize that helium can be fatal. He'd clearly researched 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:54.920 kind of the most peaceful ways to go and the 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:57.359 easiest ways to do it that wouldn't be messy for 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:01.279 anyone to have to clean up. And that was on 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:06.120 May eighteen, UM that he that he died. They didn't 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:08.880 find his body until the twenty I believe that he 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:12.000 died the last time we spoke, which was on the eighteenth, 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.599 and we had had a very difficult conversation. I think, 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:19.280 like most people dealing with mental health and suicide ideation, 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:22.800 it was a perfect storm. It was. He had been 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:26.159 diagnosed by polar He was a sober alcoholic but had 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:30.640 dealt with addiction. UM, he had a slew of business 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:32.919 issues that were going on, and some legal problems that 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:36.720 were affecting us financially, and I think he just got 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:40.520 really scared, and I think the pain was just too 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:44.640 much too to move on. And I think in his 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:46.920 own way, he felt like he was really doing me 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:53.400 a solid by leaving free, setting me free, thinking that 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:57.960 all of those issues would disappear. Um. Obviously they don't. 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:02.240 They sort of just start when that happens. But I think, 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:04.599 you know, in terms of people asking if it was 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.600 a surprise, yes and no. I mean I don't think 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:10.719 you ever really think that a loved one will kill themselves. 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:14.480 But to say that there weren't signs would be completely lying, 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:17.960 because there were numerous signs throughout our relationship. Can I 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:20.400 can I ask this? Um, so you would just you 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:22.000 just told us everything that was kind of going on 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:24.359 in his life that probably caused Did he talk about 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:26.359 that stuff or it was just stuff that you realized 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:28.960 later or or noticed yourself, and then piece together that 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:31.280 it had been so much weighing so much on him 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:34.080 for the first several years of our relationship. He was 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:37.840 very quiet, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, you know, 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:42.000 be a man, deal with it. And he hadn't yet 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:47.120 been diagnosed with bipolar at that time, and he struggled 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:50.080 with a lot of childhood trauma, which I think is 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:55.760 very common in men who deal with depression anxiety issues. 0:06:55.760 --> 0:07:01.039 There's always some sort of background with that um but 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:02.640 he didn't talk about a lot of it until he 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:05.599 got sober, and he'd been sober for about a year 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:09.000 and a half when he took his life. And I 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:13.720 do think that with the gift of sobriety came really 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:16.320 having to deal with all of the things that he'd 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:19.520 shoved down for so many years. And I think that 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:23.200 is also so many people that we lose to suicide, 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:27.040 it's a surprise because we feel like, well, gosh, they 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:29.040 were doing so well. I just saw them. They seemed 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:32.800 like they were doing so much better. And we've learned 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:35.520 I've learned through the research that I've done since two 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:37.920 thousand two, when this became such a big part of 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:41.520 my life, that when you're really struggling in that place 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:45.400 of depression, or we're really struggling with that place of ideation, 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:48.680 you often don't have the energy and the resolve to 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:51.320 kind of do what you feel like you need to 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:53.800 do to end your life. A lot of people the 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:57.440 suicide comes on the upswing, they're starting to get clarity, 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:01.520 they're starting to get kind of an a feeling of yeah, 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:03.680 this is getting better, but I still remember how bad 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:05.240 it was and I don't want to go back to 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:08.840 that place. And so, you know, in terms of risk, 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:14.280 I don't think just getting someone help and um feeling 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:17.320 like oh now they're on medication, that doesn't necessarily take 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:20.240 the risk away. Can I ask you one other question 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:22.119 of what you touched on first when you started talking, 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:27.080 are do you know of in relation to men or 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:31.360 women that commit suicide due to mental health? Is there 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:35.640 usually a connection between somebody that's bipolar, somebody that's substance 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:39.160 abuse or high stress and anxiety from career? Are those 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:42.920 usually connected to that? Or they are? So it was 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.560 almost a perfect perfect storm, and they often say that 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:49.480 it's a perfect coming together of it can be health issues, 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:53.160 physical health issues, mental health issues, you know, untreated mental 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:57.320 health issues. There have been statistics that say n of 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:00.680 all suicides have a mental health component to UM diagnosed 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:04.360 or undiagnosed UM and I tend to believe that's true. 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.400 I mean, there's a broad spectrum of what mental health 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:09.960 issues can be. Can be anxiety it can be depression, 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:12.960 it can be schizophrenia, it can be bipolar. Um, it 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:19.959 can be addiction, it can be job stress, relationships, relationship stress. UM. 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:22.320 You know, Greg and I were not in the greatest 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:24.920 place when he died. We were dealing with a lot, 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.800 and we were still newlyweds, so it was just a 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:32.120 lot to be dealing with. And the last conversation we had, 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:34.640 and it's the voice that's kind of on a play 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:37.080 all my life, I had said to him. I said, 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:39.240 you know, Greg, I love you and I have stuck 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:41.920 with you through all of this and we are going 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:43.560 to get through this. But I need you to make 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:46.560 a choice. And the choice that I was talking about 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:49.000 was he didn't like taking his medication. He was a 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:53.400 very creative guy, web designer, did a lot of graphic design, 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:56.400 and he felt like the medication dulled his creativity. And 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:59.200 what I meant by make a choice was I want 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:00.480 you to take your med and I want you to 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:04.160 commit to your recovery. And he, obviously, in his place 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:06.800 in his brain, took it as you need to make 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:09.120 a choice to live or die, and that's what he did. 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:11.880 He made that for him. He made that decision that 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:15.079 night wow. Could I I just want to commend you already, Kate, 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:18.120 for just being here and sharing that already. That is 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:23.280 I can't think of something more deep and sensitive and 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:26.600 vulnerable and real and emotional than that story, and you 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:28.760 just sharing that, being in this room with us, sharing 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:30.680 that for our listeners and for us to learn and 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:32.880 grow from already. I just want to commend you and 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:37.079 say thank you, thank you, thank you. Have you before 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:39.280 prior and Dmitri touched on us a little bit, but 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:46.239 prior to um, your husband committing suicide? Had he mentioned suicide, 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:50.120 had he tried before? Had he he had had an 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:54.160 attempt ten years before, okay, And he even at the 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:55.920 time had sort of said, well, it was more of 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:58.480 a you know, a mistake of mixing you know, drugs 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:00.199 and alcohol. I didn't really mean to do it. And 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:03.320 I think a lot of times we don't necessarily know 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:05.720 if a suicide is actually a suicide. It could just 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:09.000 be an addict finally taking that dose it's too much, 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:13.280 or drinking too much. Um. But he had, you know, 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:15.360 he was doing the things that you would think someone 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:17.320 with a mental health condition would need to do, which 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:20.040 is seeing a therapist. And he was when he was sober, 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:21.960 he was going to meetings, and he was getting support 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:26.640 from a sponsor UM. But again, I sometimes think I 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:30.760 truly believe in suicide prevention, and what I when I 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:33.640 talk about suicide prevention. I know we can save lives, 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:36.280 but I also do know that there are just some 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.640 people who the struggle is going to be so great 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:42.320 for them throughout their life that I do think there 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:44.360 are people that are harder to help. And that's a 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:46.720 hard thing to say when you're talking about suicide prevention, 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:49.640 because I want people to feel hopeful, but I also 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:53.880 feel like for some people it is really difficult. And 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:57.559 I I have talked to so many attempts survivors over 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:00.840 the last decade, and every single one of them that 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:03.040 I've talked to has said I didn't want to die. 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:06.959 I wanted the pain to end. It's it's not so much. 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:11.120 I mean, death, unfortunately is the lasting effect and what happens. 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:13.560 But it's really just I don't want to stare down 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:16.000 that dark tunnel anymore. I just I don't want to 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:18.080 feel this way anymore. I don't want to feel like 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.240 I'm a burden. I don't want to feel like I 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:24.240 don't have a purpose, UM, and I do think that 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:27.040 talking saves lives, which is why when I started listening 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:30.960 to your podcast, and I very tentatively, you know, send 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:34.000 a message to Rick and just said, hey, do you 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:36.480 think you guys might want to talk about this sometime 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:40.480 because we are losing so many men. I mean, I 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:42.880 just feel like every day in the news you're seeing 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:49.360 something else of a suicide of someone you know that's died, young, old, high, celebrity, 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.839 you know, unknown, whatever it is. And these are all 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:55.800 people that are in an intense amount of pain and 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:57.640 what can we do to help that? And I think 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:01.920 it's what is it two veterans a day, yes, commit suicide? Yes, 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.760 So suicide is the tenth leading cause of death in 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:11.559 the United States. UM. In two thousand, seventeen, thousand and 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:15.679 seventy three Americans died by suicide one point four million attempted. 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:19.000 Men die three and a half times more often than 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:22.920 women die, and white males account for six of those deaths. 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.040 So I've I've read it. I had a friend who 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:29.319 actually was doing some stuff in this space and UM 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:33.280 shared a thought that they're now starting to link men's 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:38.200 inability to share their emotions with greater rate and suicide 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:41.920 and greater rate in crime. I mean, I bet. I 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.840 think anytime you keep something inside, you play out scenarios 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:46.720 in your head, and you start speaking for other people, 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:49.000 and then you feel like you feel like you're maybe 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:51.040 you're the only one that's feeling this, and so then 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:52.839 you keep it even further inside, and I think it 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:57.120 just fessors and it starts boiling up. Right, gavre our 0:13:57.120 --> 0:13:59.920 good buddy Gavin Degras has made it into the studio here, 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:05.080 can see you guys. Good morning. Um, heavy stuff it is, yeah, 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:08.760 it's but it's necessary. Um, Kate, can I ask you 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:10.880 a question? I mean, we have a long list of 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.240 questions here. I have a quick question I want to 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:16.640 ask Kate. Are there besides the not obvious signs of 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:21.160 anxiety and bipolarism and stuff, are there other signs that 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:25.600 are that are you don't see that that are out 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:30.600 there like that you may have missed or they act 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:32.840 in a certain way, or they're Yeah. I mean, I 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.920 think some of the common ones are withdrawing from activities. 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:37.760 You know, if you've got a guy that's always shown 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:39.440 up for your softball league, but all of a sudden 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:41.360 doesn't start showing up and doesn't really have a good 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:45.200 reason why he's not showing up, or someone's giving away 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:48.680 items that they really care about or selling things. Um, 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:51.800 those are kind of the the ones you always see. 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.280 But I really there's this misnomer that if you ask 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:59.960 someone directly, hey, I'm worried about you, are you considering suicide? 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.240 Like is that something you're thinking about? People think that 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:04.240 that is going to put the idea in someone's head. 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:07.160 They don't want to raise it. You're going to give them. 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:09.960 You're going to give them the idea. And the reality 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:11.800 is that we have shown over and over again that 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:15.520 it's actually a helpful thing because it allows permission for 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:19.840 someone to say I'm hurting, I'm really hurting, and I'm 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:21.720 so glad you asked me that, and how can you 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:23.600 walk me through this? I mean, that makes sense. I 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:25.880 can't imagine that anybody would that would be able to 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:27.800 do that, would not have thought of it, and then 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:29.520 you'd plant it in their head. They're like, oh my gosh, 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:31.440 that's a great you know, like that's what I need. Like, 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:34.720 I think you're right, it's it's way better to you know, 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:38.840 approach that and and risk them being offended that they 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:41.240 you thought that than not. Well. I always say would 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.320 you rather have a mad friend or would you rather 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:45.240 have a dead friend? And I would always take a 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:47.840 friend who's mad at me over a friend whose funeral 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:51.480 I have to go to. So when we say, for 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.640 ourselves or any of our listeners out there, if they 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:57.360 have a friend like this, somebody that that is lost 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.640 to despair, that we're really concerned about their something just 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:05.480 energetically feels off about this person. Um, what can we 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:09.080 do other than just saying that, um? Or are there 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:11.320 any things that you didn't do that you're like, I 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:13.320 wish I would have done this for my husband? Like 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:16.000 is there anything that we can offer our community if 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.360 they have somebody in mind that they want to help? 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:23.440 I think being there and being there in a way 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:26.360 that's that's solid, not just sending a text like, hey, 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:28.480 do you need anything, because the problem is when you're 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.000 really in that low place, hey, you don't know what 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:33.600 you need and be you don't have the willpower to 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.600 really ask for it. Um. So I think it's really 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.640 showing up and just even sort of being that annoying 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:41.840 person if you need to be that person where you're 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.840 showing up in person, where you're inviting them to do things, 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:47.480 you know, and even if they say no, you keep 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:50.320 following up. If you ask the difficult question they say, yeah, 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:53.040 I'm really struggling, you hook them up with a crisis line. 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:57.720 There's the crisis call line which is eight seven three 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:03.400 even um. And if you're ever concerned about someone, you 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:05.399 can call that line. That line is not just if 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:08.760 you're actively suicidal. If you are concerned about someone, you 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:12.880 can call that line to get resources. Like okay, so resources, 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:14.680 I was gonna say, So, what happens when you call 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:17.639 that line? Like do they when you call? Um, there's 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:21.720 train counselors and they if you are suicidal, they assess 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:26.080 the risk, risk situation UM, and they will talk you through, 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:29.240 you know, until you're either a feeling that they feel 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:30.720 like they can let you off the phone because you're 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:35.199 no longer. They will sometimes you know, UM trying if 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:38.240 there's someone like with a firearm, they try to really 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.439 work through that in a safe way. UM. And if 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:44.520 you're just calling for someone, they will give you, you know, 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.240 organizations that you can contact and make sure you're also 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:50.040 getting the support that you need in dealing with that. 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:52.160 If you don't want to talk to someone. You can 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.000 text someone. There's a text line that's seven and you 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:58.040 just text talk to seven four one seven four one. 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:02.920 Teenagers really per for that mode for obvious reasons, because 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:06.199 they're so addicted to their phones. Um, you know, and 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:08.960 there's people have great things to say about the lines, 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:11.240 and some people have horrible things to say about the lines. 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:14.159 You know. The reality is our entire country needs a 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.080 mental health overhaul. You know. It's a lot of people 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:19.040 are afraid to call the line because they don't want 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:21.680 to be put on a which is a mandatory hold 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:25.200 in a psych word. And I understand those fears. But 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:27.720 if you really do feel that that someone is in 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:31.439 danger of harming themselves, um, you really do need to 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:34.439 talk them to at least a mental health professional and 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:38.640 e er something. And again, they might be mad at you, 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.720 but I would rather have someone be mad at me 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:43.840 and stop talking to me for a couple of weeks, 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:47.080 then you know, having to contact family members and say 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:56.159 that they're no longer here. I know. I actually know 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:59.119 a few people that have taken their own lives, um, 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:02.240 and it's seems the majority of them it was at 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.600 a time where there was change coming and I think, 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:08.280 you know, sometimes people are excited that there was one 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:10.280 in the final week of high school, there was one 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:12.600 in the final week of college, and and then there 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:15.399 was another. But I think that some people get excited 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:17.520 for change, and I think some people are terrified of it, 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:20.760 and I think they're feeling lonely, and I think they're 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:24.359 feeling like everyone's gonna leave without me or whatever life 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:26.640 is gonna go and I'm not. And so it's interesting 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:29.240 that I think it's something to keep in mind that 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:31.680 when when there's a transition like that or there's things 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:34.919 it's maybe exciting for everybody, but you kind of got 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:37.119 to keep your eye out for people that that you know. 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:39.840 And I'm not saying there was something we could have 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.040 done or was it I just didn't see it, But 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:45.320 you know that there's that loneliness factor and when people 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:47.440 think they're going to be alone and they just they 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:49.719 just go even further inside their own head. And it's like, 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:52.520 that's a tough thing to to be excited for something. 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:54.760 But I think we've got to be aware of of 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:58.000 people that are, you know, afraid of life moving on 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:01.320 without them, definitely, And I think for as wonderful as 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:03.879 social media is I get to stay connected to friends 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:07.600 that I don't get to see very often. Like Rick Um, 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.000 it can be really hard for people that do struggle 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.719 with mental illness because again it's the highlight reel notion. 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:15.280 You know, everybody's posting the best things of their day. 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:17.959 Very few people are really posting real things, and I 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:23.840 only on post depressing stuff. So follow me in my 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:33.680 car before I watch. But I think especially with with teenagers, yes, 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:36.239 you know that that's one of the risk factors. With 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:40.200 middle aged men, it's it's that pressure of I haven't 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:42.840 achieved everything that I wanted to achieve, and I you know, 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:45.000 or I can't pay for college, or I can't you know, 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:47.199 it's the pressure. So much of it is either the 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:50.919 financial pressure or like you said, those those transitions in 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:54.560 life that are difficult for some people. I mean, not 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:57.320 everybody has great family support. Not everybody has a really 0:20:57.520 --> 0:20:59.960 cool group of friends. Not everyone has guys they can 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:03.439 enter with, you know, But truth be told, do you 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:06.520 guys really talk deeply with each other? I mean, that's 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:08.560 why we wanted to start of the show. Actually, when 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:15.840 you leave and and nobody else is around, were always like, no, 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:18.359