1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: This is How Men Think with brooks Like and Gavin 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:09,120 Speaker 1: DeGraw and I heard radio podcast. Welcome to another episode 3 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: of How Men Think. My name is brooks Like. And 4 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: our buddy Gavin DeGraw, who you just heard in that 5 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: awesome intro, is running late, probably finishing his steak and 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: eggs downstairs, surprised at the bel Air Hotel here. So 7 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: I am going to grant Mr Dmitri and Mr Rick 8 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: co hosting privileges today. It's such and with that you 9 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: get Gavin's share of the show as well. I have 10 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: so many people to thank for this honor. Brooks Who 11 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: would you like to start with? I was just kidding. 12 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: I don't really have a lot of people, so we 13 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: did his three dollars and thirty three cents. Yeah you do, buddy, 14 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: So I'm in on that. Gavin, you have due to 15 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: your lateness, you have forfeited your share of today's show, 16 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: and Rick and Dmitri, you guys get to pick it up. 17 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: I'd rather have his steak and eggs that he's gonna think. 18 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: He's a smart one. He's downstairs eating and we're recording 19 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: a podcast. But I'm super excited to today's podcast. We 20 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: have a very special guest here with us today that 21 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: we'll get to in a second. But today's podcast is 22 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 1: about something that I don't think we go into enough. 23 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,559 Speaker 1: It's a very hot topic amongst our listeners. It's something 24 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: we get reached out to, probably as much as anything 25 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: to discuss. And today we want to go into the 26 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: discussion of men's mental health depression, UH, suicide prevention, all 27 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: the things that men go through that are very rarely 28 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: discussed and are sort of taboo in society and culture, 29 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: and men actually do not feel empowered or courageous enough 30 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,479 Speaker 1: to step up and share with people close to them. 31 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: So that's the discussion today. It's gonna be a heavy, 32 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 1: really deep, important conversation. UH. And Rick, we have one 33 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: of your friends here who has an amazing story that 34 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: she's I want to applaud her. Um, thank you. We 35 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: have Kasher here with us who has an amazing story 36 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: that that is filled with courage and she's going to 37 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: share it to be a vessel of service to our community, 38 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: to everybody listening at home. But Rick, I'll let you 39 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: t up Kate here. Thank you Kate for coming in, 40 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: you know, having me reaching out earlier. And it's been 41 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: a long time since we've seen each other. And Kate 42 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: and I grew up together in the mean streets in Newport, 43 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: and I'm glad you both made it out. It was tough, 44 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: it was tough, but we have been childhood friends since 45 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 1: since kindergarten. Really, you know, yeah, so every class, every grade, 46 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: every you know, you're a little bit more intelligent than 47 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 1: I am. But um, it's been great to reconnect, you know, 48 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: and thank you for reaching out to me, you know, 49 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: since we started doing this podcast. And the topic today 50 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: is that you're willing to share with us IS and 51 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: coming on IS is very important, and so I think 52 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: it's it's important that you, um, you know, I can 53 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: share that with us. So thank you. Thank you for 54 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: having me and being open to it. So the you 55 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: are an avid listener of men, think I am. Yes, 56 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: I love having listeners of the show on the show. 57 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: That's the way anybody out there listening, be a listener 58 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 1: if you're um. But so we want to dive into 59 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: as much as possible. I want to be sensitive because 60 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: even for us, this is a this is a big discussion, 61 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: and knowing your story, having some background on your story, 62 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 1: it's even hard in our position to ask these kinds 63 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: of questions. I don't in any way want to offend you, 64 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: but I want to serve our community and people that 65 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: are maybe going through this in their lives as much 66 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: as possible. So I'm an open buck. You can ask 67 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: me anything you should. My defense mechanism is sarcasm, So 68 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:37,839 Speaker 1: if I throw out something, it's probably cause I'm starting 69 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: to sweat or something mine is too. Um So, Kate, 70 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: can you give us a little background? We want you 71 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: to share your personal story about the conversation of men's 72 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: mental health, depression, mental health issues, and an ultimately suicide 73 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: and suicide prevention. You believe this topic is rarely discussed 74 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: and it's sort of your mission to bring light to it. 75 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: Can you share a little bit of your person story? 76 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: Of course? So, um what, I am a survivor of 77 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: suicide loss. That's sort of how we dub ourselves when 78 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: we've lost someone to suicide, because it is really something 79 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: that you do, in fact survive. It's a very difficult, 80 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: different kind of death to um deal with. I was 81 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: twenty eight years old when my husband took his life. 82 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: Uh he was We were living in Colorado at the time. 83 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: I was actually visiting my parents in Colorado, and he'd 84 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 1: sort of gone silent for a few days, and I 85 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:31,119 Speaker 1: had a really bad gut feeling that something was going 86 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: on and called a mutual friend and said, you know, 87 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 1: take the high to Key and will you go check 88 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,359 Speaker 1: on him. And I got the phone call from the 89 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: Sheriff's department about thirty minutes later, and he had uh 90 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: utilized carbon monoxide and helium, which a lot of people 91 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: don't realize that helium can be fatal. He'd clearly researched 92 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: kind of the most peaceful ways to go and the 93 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 1: easiest ways to do it that wouldn't be messy for 94 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 1: anyone to have to clean up. And that was on 95 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: May eighteen, UM that he that he died. They didn't 96 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: find his body until the twenty I believe that he 97 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: died the last time we spoke, which was on the eighteenth, 98 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 1: and we had had a very difficult conversation. I think, 99 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 1: like most people dealing with mental health and suicide ideation, 100 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: it was a perfect storm. It was. He had been 101 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 1: diagnosed by polar He was a sober alcoholic but had 102 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: dealt with addiction. UM, he had a slew of business 103 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 1: issues that were going on, and some legal problems that 104 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 1: were affecting us financially, and I think he just got 105 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: really scared, and I think the pain was just too 106 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: much too to move on. And I think in his 107 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: own way, he felt like he was really doing me 108 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: a solid by leaving free, setting me free, thinking that 109 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: all of those issues would disappear. Um. Obviously they don't. 110 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: They sort of just start when that happens. But I think, 111 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: you know, in terms of people asking if it was 112 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: a surprise, yes and no. I mean I don't think 113 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: you ever really think that a loved one will kill themselves. 114 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: But to say that there weren't signs would be completely lying, 115 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: because there were numerous signs throughout our relationship. Can I 116 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: can I ask this? Um, so you would just you 117 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: just told us everything that was kind of going on 118 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,359 Speaker 1: in his life that probably caused Did he talk about 119 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,359 Speaker 1: that stuff or it was just stuff that you realized 120 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: later or or noticed yourself, and then piece together that 121 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 1: it had been so much weighing so much on him 122 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: for the first several years of our relationship. He was 123 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 1: very quiet, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, you know, 124 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: be a man, deal with it. And he hadn't yet 125 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: been diagnosed with bipolar at that time, and he struggled 126 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: with a lot of childhood trauma, which I think is 127 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: very common in men who deal with depression anxiety issues. 128 00:06:55,760 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: There's always some sort of background with that um but 129 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: he didn't talk about a lot of it until he 130 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: got sober, and he'd been sober for about a year 131 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: and a half when he took his life. And I 132 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: do think that with the gift of sobriety came really 133 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: having to deal with all of the things that he'd 134 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: shoved down for so many years. And I think that 135 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: is also so many people that we lose to suicide, 136 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: it's a surprise because we feel like, well, gosh, they 137 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: were doing so well. I just saw them. They seemed 138 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: like they were doing so much better. And we've learned 139 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: I've learned through the research that I've done since two 140 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: thousand two, when this became such a big part of 141 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: my life, that when you're really struggling in that place 142 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: of depression, or we're really struggling with that place of ideation, 143 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: you often don't have the energy and the resolve to 144 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: kind of do what you feel like you need to 145 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: do to end your life. A lot of people the 146 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: suicide comes on the upswing, they're starting to get clarity, 147 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: they're starting to get kind of an a feeling of yeah, 148 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: this is getting better, but I still remember how bad 149 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: it was and I don't want to go back to 150 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: that place. And so, you know, in terms of risk, 151 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: I don't think just getting someone help and um feeling 152 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: like oh now they're on medication, that doesn't necessarily take 153 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: the risk away. Can I ask you one other question 154 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,119 Speaker 1: of what you touched on first when you started talking, 155 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: are do you know of in relation to men or 156 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: women that commit suicide due to mental health? Is there 157 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: usually a connection between somebody that's bipolar, somebody that's substance 158 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: abuse or high stress and anxiety from career? Are those 159 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: usually connected to that? Or they are? So it was 160 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: almost a perfect perfect storm, and they often say that 161 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: it's a perfect coming together of it can be health issues, 162 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: physical health issues, mental health issues, you know, untreated mental 163 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: health issues. There have been statistics that say n of 164 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: all suicides have a mental health component to UM diagnosed 165 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: or undiagnosed UM and I tend to believe that's true. 166 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: I mean, there's a broad spectrum of what mental health 167 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: issues can be. Can be anxiety it can be depression, 168 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: it can be schizophrenia, it can be bipolar. Um, it 169 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:19,959 Speaker 1: can be addiction, it can be job stress, relationships, relationship stress. UM. 170 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: You know, Greg and I were not in the greatest 171 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: place when he died. We were dealing with a lot, 172 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: and we were still newlyweds, so it was just a 173 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: lot to be dealing with. And the last conversation we had, 174 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: and it's the voice that's kind of on a play 175 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: all my life, I had said to him. I said, 176 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: you know, Greg, I love you and I have stuck 177 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: with you through all of this and we are going 178 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: to get through this. But I need you to make 179 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: a choice. And the choice that I was talking about 180 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: was he didn't like taking his medication. He was a 181 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: very creative guy, web designer, did a lot of graphic design, 182 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: and he felt like the medication dulled his creativity. And 183 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: what I meant by make a choice was I want 184 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: you to take your med and I want you to 185 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: commit to your recovery. And he, obviously, in his place 186 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: in his brain, took it as you need to make 187 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: a choice to live or die, and that's what he did. 188 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: He made that for him. He made that decision that 189 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 1: night wow. Could I I just want to commend you already, Kate, 190 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: for just being here and sharing that already. That is 191 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: I can't think of something more deep and sensitive and 192 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: vulnerable and real and emotional than that story, and you 193 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: just sharing that, being in this room with us, sharing 194 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 1: that for our listeners and for us to learn and 195 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: grow from already. I just want to commend you and 196 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:37,079 Speaker 1: say thank you, thank you, thank you. Have you before 197 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: prior and Dmitri touched on us a little bit, but 198 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:46,239 Speaker 1: prior to um, your husband committing suicide? Had he mentioned suicide, 199 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: had he tried before? Had he he had had an 200 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: attempt ten years before, okay, And he even at the 201 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: time had sort of said, well, it was more of 202 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: a you know, a mistake of mixing you know, drugs 203 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,199 Speaker 1: and alcohol. I didn't really mean to do it. And 204 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: I think a lot of times we don't necessarily know 205 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: if a suicide is actually a suicide. It could just 206 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: be an addict finally taking that dose it's too much, 207 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: or drinking too much. Um. But he had, you know, 208 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: he was doing the things that you would think someone 209 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: with a mental health condition would need to do, which 210 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: is seeing a therapist. And he was when he was sober, 211 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: he was going to meetings, and he was getting support 212 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: from a sponsor UM. But again, I sometimes think I 213 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: truly believe in suicide prevention, and what I when I 214 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: talk about suicide prevention. I know we can save lives, 215 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: but I also do know that there are just some 216 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: people who the struggle is going to be so great 217 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: for them throughout their life that I do think there 218 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: are people that are harder to help. And that's a 219 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: hard thing to say when you're talking about suicide prevention, 220 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: because I want people to feel hopeful, but I also 221 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: feel like for some people it is really difficult. And 222 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 1: I I have talked to so many attempts survivors over 223 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: the last decade, and every single one of them that 224 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: I've talked to has said I didn't want to die. 225 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,959 Speaker 1: I wanted the pain to end. It's it's not so much. 226 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: I mean, death, unfortunately is the lasting effect and what happens. 227 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 1: But it's really just I don't want to stare down 228 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: that dark tunnel anymore. I just I don't want to 229 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: feel this way anymore. I don't want to feel like 230 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: I'm a burden. I don't want to feel like I 231 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: don't have a purpose, UM, and I do think that 232 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: talking saves lives, which is why when I started listening 233 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: to your podcast, and I very tentatively, you know, send 234 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: a message to Rick and just said, hey, do you 235 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: think you guys might want to talk about this sometime 236 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: because we are losing so many men. I mean, I 237 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: just feel like every day in the news you're seeing 238 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: something else of a suicide of someone you know that's died, young, old, high, celebrity, 239 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,839 Speaker 1: you know, unknown, whatever it is. And these are all 240 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: people that are in an intense amount of pain and 241 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: what can we do to help that? And I think 242 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: it's what is it two veterans a day, yes, commit suicide? Yes, 243 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: So suicide is the tenth leading cause of death in 244 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 1: the United States. UM. In two thousand, seventeen, thousand and 245 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,679 Speaker 1: seventy three Americans died by suicide one point four million attempted. 246 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: Men die three and a half times more often than 247 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: women die, and white males account for six of those deaths. 248 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: So I've I've read it. I had a friend who 249 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 1: actually was doing some stuff in this space and UM 250 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: shared a thought that they're now starting to link men's 251 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 1: inability to share their emotions with greater rate and suicide 252 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: and greater rate in crime. I mean, I bet. I 253 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: think anytime you keep something inside, you play out scenarios 254 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: in your head, and you start speaking for other people, 255 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: and then you feel like you feel like you're maybe 256 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: you're the only one that's feeling this, and so then 257 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:52,839 Speaker 1: you keep it even further inside, and I think it 258 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: just fessors and it starts boiling up. Right, gavre our 259 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: good buddy Gavin Degras has made it into the studio here, 260 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: can see you guys. Good morning. Um, heavy stuff it is, yeah, 261 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: it's but it's necessary. Um, Kate, can I ask you 262 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: a question? I mean, we have a long list of 263 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: questions here. I have a quick question I want to 264 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 1: ask Kate. Are there besides the not obvious signs of 265 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: anxiety and bipolarism and stuff, are there other signs that 266 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: are that are you don't see that that are out 267 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: there like that you may have missed or they act 268 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: in a certain way, or they're Yeah. I mean, I 269 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: think some of the common ones are withdrawing from activities. 270 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: You know, if you've got a guy that's always shown 271 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: up for your softball league, but all of a sudden 272 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: doesn't start showing up and doesn't really have a good 273 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: reason why he's not showing up, or someone's giving away 274 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: items that they really care about or selling things. Um, 275 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: those are kind of the the ones you always see. 276 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: But I really there's this misnomer that if you ask 277 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: someone directly, hey, I'm worried about you, are you considering suicide? 278 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 1: Like is that something you're thinking about? People think that 279 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: that is going to put the idea in someone's head. 280 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: They don't want to raise it. You're going to give them. 281 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: You're going to give them the idea. And the reality 282 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: is that we have shown over and over again that 283 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: it's actually a helpful thing because it allows permission for 284 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: someone to say I'm hurting, I'm really hurting, and I'm 285 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: so glad you asked me that, and how can you 286 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: walk me through this? I mean, that makes sense. I 287 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: can't imagine that anybody would that would be able to 288 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: do that, would not have thought of it, and then 289 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: you'd plant it in their head. They're like, oh my gosh, 290 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: that's a great you know, like that's what I need. Like, 291 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: I think you're right, it's it's way better to you know, 292 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: approach that and and risk them being offended that they 293 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: you thought that than not. Well. I always say would 294 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: you rather have a mad friend or would you rather 295 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: have a dead friend? And I would always take a 296 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: friend who's mad at me over a friend whose funeral 297 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: I have to go to. So when we say, for 298 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: ourselves or any of our listeners out there, if they 299 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: have a friend like this, somebody that that is lost 300 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: to despair, that we're really concerned about their something just 301 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: energetically feels off about this person. Um, what can we 302 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: do other than just saying that, um? Or are there 303 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: any things that you didn't do that you're like, I 304 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: wish I would have done this for my husband? Like 305 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: is there anything that we can offer our community if 306 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: they have somebody in mind that they want to help? 307 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: I think being there and being there in a way 308 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: that's that's solid, not just sending a text like, hey, 309 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: do you need anything, because the problem is when you're 310 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: really in that low place, hey, you don't know what 311 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: you need and be you don't have the willpower to 312 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: really ask for it. Um. So I think it's really 313 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: showing up and just even sort of being that annoying 314 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: person if you need to be that person where you're 315 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: showing up in person, where you're inviting them to do things, 316 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: you know, and even if they say no, you keep 317 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: following up. If you ask the difficult question they say, yeah, 318 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: I'm really struggling, you hook them up with a crisis line. 319 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: There's the crisis call line which is eight seven three 320 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: even um. And if you're ever concerned about someone, you 321 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 1: can call that line. That line is not just if 322 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: you're actively suicidal. If you are concerned about someone, you 323 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 1: can call that line to get resources. Like okay, so resources, 324 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, So, what happens when you call 325 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,639 Speaker 1: that line? Like do they when you call? Um, there's 326 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: train counselors and they if you are suicidal, they assess 327 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: the risk, risk situation UM, and they will talk you through, 328 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: you know, until you're either a feeling that they feel 329 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: like they can let you off the phone because you're 330 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:35,199 Speaker 1: no longer. They will sometimes you know, UM trying if 331 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: there's someone like with a firearm, they try to really 332 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 1: work through that in a safe way. UM. And if 333 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: you're just calling for someone, they will give you, you know, 334 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: organizations that you can contact and make sure you're also 335 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: getting the support that you need in dealing with that. 336 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: If you don't want to talk to someone. You can 337 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: text someone. There's a text line that's seven and you 338 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: just text talk to seven four one seven four one. 339 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: Teenagers really per for that mode for obvious reasons, because 340 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 1: they're so addicted to their phones. Um, you know, and 341 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: there's people have great things to say about the lines, 342 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: and some people have horrible things to say about the lines. 343 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: You know. The reality is our entire country needs a 344 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: mental health overhaul. You know. It's a lot of people 345 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: are afraid to call the line because they don't want 346 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 1: to be put on a which is a mandatory hold 347 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: in a psych word. And I understand those fears. But 348 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: if you really do feel that that someone is in 349 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,439 Speaker 1: danger of harming themselves, um, you really do need to 350 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: talk them to at least a mental health professional and 351 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 1: e er something. And again, they might be mad at you, 352 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: but I would rather have someone be mad at me 353 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: and stop talking to me for a couple of weeks, 354 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: then you know, having to contact family members and say 355 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 1: that they're no longer here. I know. I actually know 356 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: a few people that have taken their own lives, um, 357 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: and it's seems the majority of them it was at 358 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: a time where there was change coming and I think, 359 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes people are excited that there was one 360 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: in the final week of high school, there was one 361 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: in the final week of college, and and then there 362 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 1: was another. But I think that some people get excited 363 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: for change, and I think some people are terrified of it, 364 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: and I think they're feeling lonely, and I think they're 365 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: feeling like everyone's gonna leave without me or whatever life 366 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 1: is gonna go and I'm not. And so it's interesting 367 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: that I think it's something to keep in mind that 368 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: when when there's a transition like that or there's things 369 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,919 Speaker 1: it's maybe exciting for everybody, but you kind of got 370 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 1: to keep your eye out for people that that you know. 371 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: And I'm not saying there was something we could have 372 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: done or was it I just didn't see it, But 373 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: you know that there's that loneliness factor and when people 374 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 1: think they're going to be alone and they just they 375 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,719 Speaker 1: just go even further inside their own head. And it's like, 376 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: that's a tough thing to to be excited for something. 377 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: But I think we've got to be aware of of 378 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: people that are, you know, afraid of life moving on 379 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: without them, definitely, And I think for as wonderful as 380 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 1: social media is I get to stay connected to friends 381 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: that I don't get to see very often. Like Rick Um, 382 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: it can be really hard for people that do struggle 383 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,719 Speaker 1: with mental illness because again it's the highlight reel notion. 384 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: You know, everybody's posting the best things of their day. 385 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:17,959 Speaker 1: Very few people are really posting real things, and I 386 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: only on post depressing stuff. So follow me in my 387 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: car before I watch. But I think especially with with teenagers, yes, 388 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,239 Speaker 1: you know that that's one of the risk factors. With 389 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 1: middle aged men, it's it's that pressure of I haven't 390 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: achieved everything that I wanted to achieve, and I you know, 391 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: or I can't pay for college, or I can't you know, 392 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 1: it's the pressure. So much of it is either the 393 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 1: financial pressure or like you said, those those transitions in 394 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: life that are difficult for some people. I mean, not 395 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: everybody has great family support. Not everybody has a really 396 00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: cool group of friends. Not everyone has guys they can 397 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: enter with, you know, But truth be told, do you 398 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: guys really talk deeply with each other? I mean, that's 399 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: why we wanted to start of the show. Actually, when 400 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: you leave and and nobody else is around, were always like, no, 401 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: that's what we wanted to start the show about is 402 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: because I don't believe I spent my whole life in 403 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,880 Speaker 1: locker rooms, and I don't believe men do share their 404 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: emotions in their their feelings enough and in in my life, 405 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: they're more likely to share deodorant. Yeah, he played hockey. 406 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: And one of the episodes that I that sticks out 407 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: in my mind is when you guys asked each other, 408 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: like when the last time you cried was? And it 409 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: was some some of you had a hard time really 410 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: kind of coming to terms with, like when was that? 411 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: And what was I feeling when that happened? Or And 412 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: I just think, you know, so much of it is 413 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 1: that men are raised to, you know, to suck it 414 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: up and be a man and and you know, do 415 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: manly things. And I think I've become This has obviously 416 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 1: been a passion project of mine since I lost my husband. 417 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,719 Speaker 1: I'm remarried now, I have two sons, and this is 418 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 1: very important to me now because I want my sons 419 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: to grow up knowing that they can talk to me 420 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: about anything, that if they're scared, they can come to me. Um. 421 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: I don't want them to feel like they have to 422 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: bottle things up. I mean, we are seeing suicide in 423 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: children as young as eight. I mean that is nuts. O, Kate, 424 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: Can I ask you how old are your boys are? Eight? How? 425 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: How and at what age did you bring this up 426 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: to them? There? Are they aware that you were previously married. 427 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: The interesting thing is they've only just known for the 428 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: last several months. It's always been in the back of 429 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: my head, like, oh, we gotta tell them, we gotta 430 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,160 Speaker 1: what are we going to do? Because I write about 431 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: it so often and you know they're using computers at school. 432 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, man, if they google me their stuff, 433 00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: that's going to come up that there's going to be 434 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: really surprised spy. And so I finally it's I had 435 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: wanted to have a full sit down. My husband, UM, 436 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: is an attorney, and was away at trial for three 437 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: weeks UM, and I was doing one of my groups 438 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: I facilitate I co facilitate Survivors Groups, which is an 439 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: eight week program for people who have lost ones to 440 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: suicide to kind of help them through that. And it 441 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: was our last group. And the last group is really 442 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: important because you need closure because so many people didn't 443 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 1: have closure with the one that they lost. And my 444 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,159 Speaker 1: babysitter canceled, and I panicked because I thought, oh gosh, 445 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: what am I going to do? And I called the 446 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: director of the program and I said, hey, there's extra 447 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: rooms in the building. Can I just bring the boys. 448 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: I'll bring like electronic babysitters. I'll put the TV on, 449 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,880 Speaker 1: I'll do what they You know, they know it's important. 450 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: And for whatever reason, I think because Daddy had been 451 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: gone for three weeks already and they were upset. My 452 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: one son had a full fledged meltdown about why why 453 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: do we have to go? Why are these meetings so 454 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: important to you? Why do you have to always help 455 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 1: these people? And so I sat down and I said, 456 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: you know what, guys, because mommy had a really really 457 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,919 Speaker 1: heavy loss when she was younger, and I'm trying to 458 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: help people go through what I went through. And they 459 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:07,120 Speaker 1: said what? And I told them, and the again, it's humor. 460 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: I think kids can handle a lot. But the funniest 461 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: thing of the whole thing, so I said, you know, 462 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: I was married. I was married to a man. His 463 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 1: brain was really sick. He died. I didn't go into 464 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: full details about anything, but my one son looked at 465 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: me and he said, so you're telling me that if 466 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: Greg didn't die, I would be stuck in the baby depot, 467 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: like with no parents, just out there floating around waiting 468 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: for someone to pick me up. And I was like, 469 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: I guess, okay, that's exactly what I'm that's if that's 470 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: what we're talking about now, that's exactly right. And I did. 471 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: I packed him up. They went, They were fine, but 472 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: they know and have known for a long time that 473 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: this is really important to me. How did you bring 474 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: it up to your now husband and how long into 475 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: seeing each other. The interesting thing is that it's amazing 476 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: how the world works. Um. I was reproductive law attorney 477 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 1: for many years, so infertility was my specialty. I helped 478 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: people have kids. And one of the agencies that I 479 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: worked for, I became very friendly with one of the 480 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: case coordinators and she knew that I had lost my 481 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: husband to suicide and had just moved back to California 482 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: to kind of restart my life. And her brother died 483 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 1: by suicide. And she called me and she said, you're 484 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,679 Speaker 1: the only person I know that's been through this, and 485 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,120 Speaker 1: what do we do? And it turns out I started, 486 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: you know, talking to her about what it was, you know, 487 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: what it was, and we became closer through that experience. 488 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,120 Speaker 1: And she had a brother, another brother, her other older 489 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 1: brother who she said, I just would love for you 490 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 1: to meet my brother. And her brother is now my husband. 491 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: So he has lost he has lost family members to suicide. 492 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: And it's the other reason why I want my children 493 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: to feel safe with their mental health and to understand 494 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 1: that this notion of physical health mental health. To me, 495 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: health is health. Mental health affects physical, physical effects mental 496 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: it's all one thing. If you're letting one thing slide, 497 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: it's all going to slide at some point. And I 498 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: want my kids to know because the reality is we've 499 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: got some stuff in our family history. You know, I've 500 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 1: got alcoholic I'm Scottish and Irish. I mean, we've got 501 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: boozers on my side. We've got alcoholism. Um, he has 502 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: suicide on his There's several people in his family that 503 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,120 Speaker 1: have died by suicide. And you know, some of it 504 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 1: was sort of explained, some of it wasn't. And you know, 505 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 1: I want my kids. They're at risk. I mean, they 506 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: have shown that there is a biological component to mental 507 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 1: health issues, and men who have children later in life, 508 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: they've also shown have a higher risk of having a 509 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: schizophrenic or bipolar child, And it used to never be 510 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 1: that men. You know, women kind of got this bad 511 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: end of the stick, like, oh, your eggs are old, 512 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,640 Speaker 1: you're going to have kids with birth defects. And now 513 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 1: they're showing that men who have kids later in life 514 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: also have some risks for other things being passed on. 515 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: Do you know an age number on that? Because I'm 516 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 1: thirty six right now, I don't have kids, but want 517 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: to have kids, do you know us specific sort of generally, 518 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: and just to let you know, do not panic. It's 519 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: not like a huge person of my kids. It's they say, 520 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: men over forty. Yeah, what's what's the best way to 521 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:21,199 Speaker 1: approach this conversation with kids? Do you talk about that 522 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: at all? I mean, sadly there are more groups now 523 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 1: for children because we are losing so many parents and 524 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: things and friends to suicide. But I think brain health 525 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: is just one of the best ways to sort of 526 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: approach it. That just the same way we take care 527 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: of our hearts, the same way we take care of 528 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: our you know, we have to take care of our brains. 529 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: And what does that mean? That means you know, eating well, 530 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 1: exercising and talking about our feelings, not holding things in. 531 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 1: And you know, I've always been pretty open with everything, 532 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 1: but I mean, I had a really rough of high 533 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: school was not the greatest for me. And the reason 534 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 1: I was asking because I coach high school water Poland. 535 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 1: So we have started a new program at our school 536 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: where we're just with our team, where we're starting to 537 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: engage these other aspects of their lives. That's amazing. Instead 538 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: of just being a coach and running practice and everything. 539 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: It's like we're going to talk to the police department 540 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 1: about safety, and we're going to parties and what happens, 541 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 1: and totally we bring in more of it, like a 542 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 1: you know, health through the school, but it's it's a 543 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,919 Speaker 1: health person. So we're talking about our feelings and how 544 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,439 Speaker 1: does that work? And you cann't go see somebody besides 545 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: coming to your coach or your parents or whatever. So 546 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 1: I just want to see the other ways. And yeah, 547 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: and I think too with with family. You know, the 548 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: hardest thing is, you know, so many kids have things 549 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: going on that they just don't want to talk about 550 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: and you can kind of see it in pinpoint it, 551 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: but you don't know exactly what it is, and no 552 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: one wants to get involved, and no one wants to 553 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: have to you know, one wants to talk to their parents. Yeah, 554 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: you know exactly. So having those other outlets I think 555 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: is really right, having outlets, having and I think there's 556 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: always I feel like there's always one parent. It's funny. 557 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: I could never really talk to my mom. I felt 558 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: like about certain things, but like all of you guys 559 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: always came to talk to my mom, Like never you 560 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: lost your virginity or did anything like you were those details. 561 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: I lost my virginity somebody else. It was someone else, 562 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: and you probably know who. Rick was just bragging. He 563 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: was on everybody. I remember last glorious. I just remember 564 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: coming home and be like what because my mom would say, 565 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: we're having a private conversation. Just go upstairs for a while. 566 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: It's like okay. But I didn't feel like I could 567 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: talk to my mom necessarily neither. And I feel like 568 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: that's also in kind of like the generation to hopefully 569 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: this generation of kids is yes in us. You know, 570 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: having a platform to share these ideas and share these 571 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: concerns is well. And I think as much as higher 572 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: profile men can come forward, you know, it was huge 573 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: when Michael Phelps came forward to talk about these depression 574 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: and anxiety and how he helped dealt with that, and 575 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: I think a lot of we were finally okay with that. 576 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: I think we have, you know, a lot of football 577 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: players that are talking about the head injuries and how 578 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 1: that's affected their lives and talking about em early retirement 579 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: and what that's done to them. Um So I think 580 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: the more we can talk, you know, I think a 581 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: lot of men Robin Williams, Anthony Bourdain, I mean when 582 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: the news first came out, we didn't know a lot. 583 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: Now we know certain things that Robin Williams was dealing with, 584 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: But like Anthony Bourdain, I think so many people just 585 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: looked at him as like this just lover of life 586 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: and food and all the and then to all of 587 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: a sudden have him gone. I think a lot of people, 588 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: men included, took a step back and said, oh boy, 589 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: what do I okay? How am I going to deal 590 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: with this? And what does this mean to me? And 591 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: you know, in Newport, all over the world gets to 592 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: do it for someone else is saying to go these 593 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: amazing blazes. It's so easy to look at that and think, 594 00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: but he's got it all. He's got nothing worried about 595 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: exact people, and that's looking at the specs on paper. 596 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: It's such a fallacy, and I think that's what we 597 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: have to remember, that this is equal opportunity. It happens 598 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: to the rich, it happens to the poor, it happens 599 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: to the healthy, it happens to those with families those 600 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: without families, and we need to just open up the 601 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: conversation and make it be okay. It's okay to talk, 602 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: you know, it's okay not to be okay. There's a 603 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: great cafe in Chicago called Sip of Hope and they 604 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,959 Speaker 1: have trained mental health baristas and you get to go 605 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: in there and have a coffee and talk. And their 606 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: motto is it's okay not to be okay, because we 607 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: live in a society where everything has to be and 608 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: everything's got to be perfect. Now with social media it's 609 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: even more right. But it's okay not to be okay. 610 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: It's okay to be scared that you're not gonna be 611 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: able to provide for your family, or if you're losing 612 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: a job or whatever it is. I think, you know, 613 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: not to get all religious on me, but I think 614 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: that that's sort of uh fundamentally, that was probably more 615 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: the purpose of church than we that we pay attention 616 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: now to and modern society as people are not necessarily 617 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: showing up at churches or temples, and it's become less 618 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: of a religious Western civilization than we've had in the past. 619 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: People aren't necessarily showing up to a place of worship 620 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: where they're told to look into their souls and think 621 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: about their their day to day lives and their relationships 622 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: way that they used to on a Sunday or a 623 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: Saturday at least once a week in their community before 624 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:30,239 Speaker 1: social version of forced socialization. We've drifted away from that 625 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: modern culture. Now we're talking about this in sort of 626 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: this other version of this other setting, and we're creating 627 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: these other settings that essentially are in some senses not 628 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: necessarily religious, but are serving a similar purpose of looking 629 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: into your soul, looking into your happiness, applying these certain 630 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: versions of are we healthy, are we not healthy? How 631 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: do we fix the things that are wrong in our lives? 632 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: And it's ironic, but um but that essentially it's making 633 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: me see what the purpose of some of these social 634 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: groups were, these religious, uh sort of formats. It's amazing 635 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: when I'm sitting here thinking about in my life, Dimitri, 636 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: you touched on it. You had people that you know 637 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: or knew that have committed suicide. Off the top of 638 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: my head, I've thought of two. Um. One was our 639 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: team doctor that looked after my health for years, one 640 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: of the happiest guys I knew. He was as responsible 641 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: for my health as anybody I knew and saw him 642 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: after every single game, and all of a sudden found 643 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: out he had committed suicide. And I just didn't know. 644 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: I was so. I was like, he seemed like the 645 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 1: happiest guy ever, and I felt so bad. I was like, 646 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: I wish I could have helped. I wish I would have, 647 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: but how I just I just didn't see it. As 648 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: you said, Dmitri, like sometimes you just don't see it. 649 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: You think somebody has it all together. There was another 650 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: guy I skated with, played in the NHL professional hockey player, 651 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: made millions of dollars, committed suicide. Um So it's I 652 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: bet in everybody listening they have somebody in their circle 653 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: that he struggles with mental health or has committed suicide. 654 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 1: It's that prominent I think in society today. And then 655 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: also I want to share one of my best friends 656 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,720 Speaker 1: in the entire world. I've known him my entire life. Um. 657 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: We grew up very right across the street from each other, 658 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 1: so I've known him for thirty six years. Um. Tyrrell 659 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 1: Lamentine is his name. One of the funniest people I've 660 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: ever met in the world. And he's been on an 661 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: amazing journey. And it's just started sharing his journey with 662 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: mental health. And he's done two articles on LinkedIn that 663 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 1: I want to share. It's uh if you are listening 664 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,279 Speaker 1: and want to read these, thy Lamentine on LinkedIn and 665 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: his first article was mental health and my career in 666 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: the oil and gas and he talks about his issues, 667 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: talks about how when he thought he made this much money, 668 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 1: he'd be he'd be happier, and he'd be and he 669 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: talks about his issues, and then he talks about how 670 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 1: once he laid his weapons down and opened up and 671 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: shared his vulnerability, people that he looked up to, bosses, 672 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,839 Speaker 1: people way up in the in the chain reached out 673 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:06,919 Speaker 1: to him and said, I'm struggling. Thank you so much, 674 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: can you help me? This is wow. I'm so glad 675 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,839 Speaker 1: you shared this. Like so, I encourage anybody in our 676 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 1: community to to have the courage. And that's what I 677 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,240 Speaker 1: always challenge him with him, like if if it doesn't 678 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: exist around where we live, you have to create it. 679 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 1: And he started that conversation. And so if you want 680 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: to read his articles, he has mental Health in my 681 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: Career in Oil and Gas on LinkedIn and he also 682 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: did a follow up called mental Health Tip The Things 683 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: I wished I'd known in the beginning, So you can 684 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: will share these in the show notes. But these are 685 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: two amazing articles. And I love Tyrrell's mission. And it's 686 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 1: amazing when you open up for anybody out there struggling. 687 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: If you open up about and that's what this show is. 688 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: Open up about your struggles, our insecurities, things that we 689 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: are having a problem or issue within our life. There 690 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: is a listening and compassionate ear and somebody willing to 691 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 1: lie like people will line up to help you, you know. 692 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 1: And so Tyrelle, I love your mission. Brother, He's a 693 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 1: brother to me. I love his mission. I want to 694 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 1: share that and go check out his articles on mental health. Um, 695 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,800 Speaker 1: have you guys experienced, Gavin and Rick, have you guys 696 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 1: experienced anything like this in your life? You know, anybody 697 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: I have. Yeah, I've known I've known more than one 698 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: person who's who's committed two side yeah and uh, and 699 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 1: you know they're there. I'm thinking of two right now. 700 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:38,319 Speaker 1: They couldn't have been more opposite types of people, you know. 701 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 1: One of them was very, very from like an orthodox background, 702 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 1: and one was you know, ah, sort of like backwoods 703 00:36:54,320 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 1: you know, uh, carpenter. And they're totally two different type 704 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 1: some people. But one of them had a substance abuse 705 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: problem and one didn't, you know, one didn't have seemed 706 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: to have any problems, you know, and was one of 707 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: those people who, you know, if I was if I 708 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,240 Speaker 1: was walking home from from town, like with my bag, 709 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: you know, after like ball, after practice or something like that, 710 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 1: and the bus would drop you off in town, you 711 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 1: have to walk that last that last mile or so, 712 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,720 Speaker 1: if they ever saw you on the on the road walking, 713 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: let me give you a ride, you know, and I think, 714 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:31,799 Speaker 1: hey happened, you know, I'll give you. I'd be like, 715 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:33,800 Speaker 1: no, no no, I don't want to convince it. No, please, 716 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 1: let me have to give you a ride, you know. 717 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: And so you didn't see those things coming. I think 718 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,440 Speaker 1: it's crazy. I think that's it. I think depression doesn't, 719 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: and mental health doesn't attack one type of person. No 720 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 1: one's immune to it. So I mean, it's just as 721 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,880 Speaker 1: you're saying, they were completely opposite people, totally two different 722 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:55,359 Speaker 1: types of people. And it's not necessarily a money thing, 723 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 1: and it's not necessarily a substance abuse thing, but it 724 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,319 Speaker 1: could be certain people. It's that's part of what's you know, 725 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 1: an obstacle for them. It's just so unbelievable. It's such 726 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: the human mind is so so complex, and your emotion, 727 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 1: the range of emotions every every single person is capable 728 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: of traveling throughout the course of one single day is 729 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 1: so vast, you know, so so you can never really 730 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 1: you never know what to expect, but it is it 731 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: is good to know that there's people you can go to, 732 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: or at least people who aren't necessarily even professionals. You 733 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: can always pick up the phone and call buddy or 734 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 1: or if you sense that someone's having a hard time, 735 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,839 Speaker 1: called and say, hey, man, what are you doing? You're right, no, no, 736 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 1: I'm coming by. I got coffee. Yeah, you know what 737 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 1: I mean, like something some interaction, and sometimes it's good 738 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 1: to be a little bit of a nudge if you're 739 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 1: dealing with somebody who's really super bummed out. You know 740 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:55,960 Speaker 1: I've been bummed out before and had a buddy. Did 741 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 1: you show up? Like yo, man, what's up? Got your beer? Man? 742 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,359 Speaker 1: Let's uh, let's go for a walk. You know we're 743 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: I'm like, no, man, I'm working. I'm working now, and 744 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:03,799 Speaker 1: they get out of the house. Bro, you can't sit 745 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: in the house for three days in a row working, 746 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,839 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Sometimes I act, I act 747 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 1: bumbed down in case someone bring the beer, um and 748 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 1: you're like, oh man, what I actually needed to get 749 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: out of the house. So for our for our listeners, 750 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,240 Speaker 1: Kate that want to get in touch with you because 751 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: you do so much work in the space and thank 752 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,839 Speaker 1: you for your story. Again, we need to wrap here, 753 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 1: but I want to um ask where can our listeners 754 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,399 Speaker 1: find you? Should they want to reach out to you. Yeah, 755 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 1: you can find me on Instagram and Facebook all under 756 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,400 Speaker 1: kate lyon Osher that's my full name, and then I 757 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,800 Speaker 1: have a blog kate lyon Osher dot com. Okay, lion 758 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 1: lion l y o n y o n okay, So 759 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,479 Speaker 1: kate lyon Osher spell it wrong? You know, it's like lion, 760 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 1: It's like lion estates from that, I know we need 761 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,279 Speaker 1: to wrap, but I just wanted to say first, vulnerability 762 00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,800 Speaker 1: is a superpower and that sounds so cheesy, but it 763 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 1: really is. If you can open yourself up, people will 764 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 1: come to you because they will connect with you. And also, 765 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: just to end, check on the people that are always smiling, 766 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,000 Speaker 1: that are always joking, that always seem to have it 767 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 1: put together, because those are the ones that are oftentimes 768 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,919 Speaker 1: struggling the most. I just want to make sure she's 769 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 1: glaring in all of the straight up dimitri yet. Thank 770 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 1: you Kate for coming on. Thank you so much for 771 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,239 Speaker 1: having me. It's been amazing. Thank you so much, and 772 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 1: for everybody listening. We'll put all of these resources in 773 00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 1: the show notes. Um, we'll let you know all of 774 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 1: the areas you can reach out. There are so many resources. 775 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,399 Speaker 1: Please do not feel like you're alone. Call your mom, 776 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,880 Speaker 1: your dad. I'm telling you, people will line up to 777 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,320 Speaker 1: help you if you're struggling. And if you have somebody 778 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 1: in your life that you are just even energetically feeling 779 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,720 Speaker 1: weird about. Please, as Gav said, bring him a coffee 780 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:52,320 Speaker 1: or beer something, pull him aside, say hey, I just 781 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 1: want to talk with you. This's just wrap if you're good, 782 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:55,360 Speaker 1: you're good great. I just want you to know I 783 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 1: care about you, I love you, UM, and I just 784 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,439 Speaker 1: want to be here if there's anything you to share. 785 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 1: So thank you everybody that listen to Thank you. This 786 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 1: was an amazing episode. I feel like we have to 787 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:06,239 Speaker 1: do a follow up to this. I think this is 788 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,280 Speaker 1: such I think there's still so much more to unpack 789 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,759 Speaker 1: in this UM and reach out to us with your 790 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,439 Speaker 1: questions or comments, anything. Anybody is certainly struggling, please reach 791 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,160 Speaker 1: out with us and we will do our best to 792 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: help you. So until next week, take care of one another, 793 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: love one another, awesome, and we'll see you back here.