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Speaker 1: All Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to it could Happen Here podcast about things falling

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Speaker 2: apart how to put it back together again, made by

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Speaker 2: iHeartMedia and I am your host, Nia Wong. So we

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Speaker 2: have been you know, this is our This is going

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Speaker 2: to be our first union doubleheader. We have two union

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Speaker 2: episodes in a row. And part of why we're doing

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Speaker 2: this is that we've we've been covering a lot of

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Speaker 2: very sort of very fast drives, very low to the

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Speaker 2: ground drives in small shops recently, and today we are

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Speaker 2: going to be covering a shop that is not like that.

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Speaker 2: It is very large, it is quite geographically diverse, and

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Speaker 2: it has been organizing for a very long time. And

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Speaker 2: that union is the iHeart Podcast Union. And with me

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Speaker 2: to talk about this is Tracy Wilson from Suffie Missing

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Speaker 2: History Class and Nomes Griffin, who is a producer on

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Speaker 2: many staggeringly too many shows. And yeah, they are both

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Speaker 2: on the bargaining committee of the iHeart Podcast Union. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: Tracy Nolmes, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: No, thank you, We're glad to be here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited to talk to you too.

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Speaker 2: So all right, first thing, first thing about this iHeart

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Speaker 2: Podcast Union. We haven't covered many media unions on this podcast.

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Speaker 2: We probably should do more, but it's been a sort

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Speaker 2: of product of of what kind I don't know, there's certa,

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Speaker 2: there are certain kinds of stuff that we've been focusing on,

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Speaker 2: but now now we're doing media unions. So the place

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Speaker 2: I wanted to start talking about the iHeart Podcast union

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Speaker 2: is the sort of scale of it. I mean, there's

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Speaker 2: people everywhere, like there are there are there are people

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Speaker 2: who are where there there's one union member in the

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Speaker 2: entire city, so you know, can we And it's also

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Speaker 2: been going on for a very very long time, so

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Speaker 2: I wanted to sort of ask, can you talk about

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Speaker 2: how this whole process started and kind of how long

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Speaker 2: it's been going on?

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Speaker 3: So long? So long? I I was scrolling through my

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Speaker 3: phone today trying to remember when when was the first

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Speaker 3: time that I was contacted about unionizing, because the first

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Speaker 3: thing that happened for me was being organized into the

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Speaker 3: union before I Heart recognized us, and that was in

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Speaker 3: the fall of twenty twenty. In the fall of twenty twenty,

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Speaker 3: I got a text from my friend Lauren that was like,

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Speaker 3: can I talk to you about a kind of a

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Speaker 3: work thing. It's a kind of work. And I said sure.

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Speaker 3: And the question that Lauren had to ask me was

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Speaker 3: some of us are talking about unionizing, how would you

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Speaker 3: feel about that? And I said, okay, I need to

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Speaker 3: check my agreement that I already have with iHeart, because

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Speaker 3: a lot of us that I have individual agreements with

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Speaker 3: the company. I have worked in the job that I

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Speaker 3: have now in some capacity for almost nineteen years, so

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Speaker 3: I've been here forever and I already had this. I

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Speaker 3: was like, I need to find out does disagreement prohibit

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Speaker 3: me from doing this? It did not, And so I said,

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Speaker 3: all right, if I'm eligible to be in the union,

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Speaker 3: I'm on board. If I'm not eligible to be in

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Speaker 3: the union, you have my full support. And that was

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Speaker 3: in like November of twenty twenty, which is eons i'd

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Speaker 3: go at this.

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Speaker 4: Point, Yeah, it's been I came on to the company

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Speaker 4: and the union was already in negotiations, Like, yeah, it

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Speaker 4: had been a union already. I started in January of

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty three, and I came like straight into the

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Speaker 4: we're in bargaining sessions process.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So the organizing process took definitely more than a year.

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Speaker 3: And that was more than a year of people talking

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Speaker 3: to all of their colleagues about whether they wanted to

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Speaker 3: form a union, what would be the benefits of forming

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Speaker 3: a union, all of that stuff. And so we have

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Speaker 3: three main offices at iHeart, there's New York, LA and Atlanta,

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Speaker 3: So there were people who were doing things on the

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Speaker 3: ground with people locally to them. But then also I

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Speaker 3: think it's something like a third of our unit is

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Speaker 3: not actually local to one of these offices. I'm not

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Speaker 3: local to in office. I live north of Boston. We

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Speaker 3: have like three unit members in the entire Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

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Speaker 3: So this is like a really long process of getting

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Speaker 3: everybody on board and getting everybody to commit to saying

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Speaker 3: they wanted to be in the union, and then eventually

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Speaker 3: to sign union cards after all of that, that took

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Speaker 3: more than a year. We informed management of our intent

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Speaker 3: to unionize in December of twenty twenty one, and they

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Speaker 3: recognized us about six weeks later in February of twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty two. That took longer than we would have wanted.

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Speaker 3: There was some back and forth about exactly what roles

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Speaker 3: would be included in the union, and then also the

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Speaker 3: winter holidays happened in the middle of that, which, yes,

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Speaker 3: like those weeks don't exist for business purposes in a

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Speaker 3: lot of ways. We still got to do podcasts for them,

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Speaker 3: but nobody's at work, and so, you know, we were

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Speaker 3: recognized without having to go through an election with the NLRB,

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Speaker 3: which was great, but it did sort of feel like

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Speaker 3: it took a little bit to finally get the recognition

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Speaker 3: and then we started bargaining in May, so a couple

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Speaker 3: of months after that, and that was two years ago

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Speaker 3: that we started bargaining.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah it's May now, it is May.

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Speaker 3: It is almost June today.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it has been a really quite long bargaining process,

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Speaker 2: which I think, I mean, this is something we've talked

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Speaker 2: about on the show before that this is a pretty

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Speaker 2: This is a thing that happens a lot for especially

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Speaker 2: for first contracts, is that companies will try to sort

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Speaker 2: of just wait the union out and try to because

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Speaker 2: you know, the if if you look at like the

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Speaker 2: places where unions fail, it's they either fail in sort

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Speaker 2: of like they okay, there's there's there's the failures where

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Speaker 2: like nothing ever gets started. There's the failures where they

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Speaker 2: they lose an election or they don't have enough people

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Speaker 2: to sign cards. And then the third place that they

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Speaker 2: fail is contract is the first contract. And so this is,

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Speaker 2: you know, a situation that I guess is not unexpected,

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Speaker 2: but is also negotiating a contract for two years just

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Speaker 2: is not very fun.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's not.

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Speaker 3: Our colleagues at WGAE, when we got ready to start bargaining,

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Speaker 3: tried to prepare us for the fact that eighteen months

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Speaker 3: to two years is fairly normal in the world of

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Speaker 3: media to bargain a first contract. I will readily acknowledge

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Speaker 3: that I was overly optimistic when we started. I would

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Speaker 3: not go so far as to say naive, but like

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Speaker 3: I thought it was a really good sign that the

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Speaker 3: company had voluntarily recognized us. I thought it was a

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Speaker 3: really good sign that WGAE had successfully negotiated other contracts

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Speaker 3: and that we were sort of drawing from a lot

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Speaker 3: of that contract. Language is our starting point, and I

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Speaker 3: feel like when you have all of the unionized podcast

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Speaker 3: shops having similar language to me, that language is now

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Speaker 3: becoming industry standard. So I expected less of a fight

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Speaker 3: over a lot of that than what we actually got.

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Speaker 3: And then also management hired an attorney that has negotiated

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Speaker 3: a lot of other contracts with WGAE was just all

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Speaker 3: stuff that I thought was seemed favorable, and then when

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Speaker 3: we actually got into the bargaining process, it has gone

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Speaker 3: on for so long and there have been so many

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Speaker 3: things that it has felt like we're just going around

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Speaker 3: in circles at the table.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So before we get into kind of what issues

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Speaker 2: are being circled around and what management has been doing,

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Speaker 2: I wanted to talk about what bargaining a contract is

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Speaker 2: actually like because I think most of the people listening

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Speaker 2: to this have never done it and only kind of

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Speaker 2: have a vague idea of what that means. So can

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Speaker 2: you sort of walk us through the I don't know.

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Speaker 2: So there's a week that has a bargaining session, can

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Speaker 2: you walk through the process of what goes into that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 4: In a week where we might have a bargaining session,

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Speaker 4: say we have a bargaining session on Wednesday and Thursday

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Speaker 4: as a committee will meet probably the Monday the Tuesday

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Speaker 4: to prepare whatever our counter proposals will be. So whether

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Speaker 4: or not that's on economics. So we're getting back and

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Speaker 4: we're adjusting our salary proposals that are going to go

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Speaker 4: across the table or we're adjusting what we're asking for

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Speaker 4: in severance, how many weeks of severance we're asking for.

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Speaker 4: So we'll spend some time as a committee going through

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Speaker 4: those proposals and basing our decisions off of like, this

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Speaker 4: is where we have an intention of landing, this is

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Speaker 4: where management is right now, this is what in our

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Speaker 4: conversations with the other unit members we've figured out is

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Speaker 4: most important.

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Speaker 1: To people, So we'll make counters based on that.

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Speaker 4: Lately, our sessions have those sessions have looked like preparing

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Speaker 4: to who in the committee is going to be presenting

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Speaker 4: that contract language across the table, So we'll divvy up

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Speaker 4: those presentations and Tracy might present on diversity, I might

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Speaker 4: present about the salary minimums. We might have another committee

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Speaker 4: member present on severans and things like that. So we'll

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Speaker 4: sort out who is going to say what, and we'll

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Speaker 4: also plan out any other sort of editorializing that we're

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Speaker 4: going to do across the table, like this is why

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Speaker 4: we're making a move here, because it's important to our

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Speaker 4: unit for this reason, We've also planned out actions that

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Speaker 4: we're going to do across the table and having unit

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Speaker 4: members read testimonials about certain contract items. So those are

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Speaker 4: all of the things that we might prepare for ahead

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Speaker 4: of the bargaining session, and then on the actual day

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Speaker 4: of bargaining session, we'll go in and we'll meet as

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Speaker 4: a committee in the morning. We're either presenting first our

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Speaker 4: proposals or management is presenting to us. As a bargaining

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Speaker 4: committee will be there to hear the proposals. There may

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Speaker 4: be some session that are more important than others, so

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Speaker 4: we'll invite the whole unit to hear those proposals, and

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Speaker 4: we will over those two days sort of go back

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Speaker 4: and forth, presenting across the table what our proposals are

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Speaker 4: and the counter proposals, and with the idea of like

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Speaker 4: getting closer to a contract that is fair and like

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Speaker 4: Tracy said earlier, industry standard.

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Speaker 3: That sums it up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I guess this leads us to the second

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Speaker 2: part of contract negotiations, which is management's counter proposals. So,

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Speaker 2: you know something, something I think is kind of surprising

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Speaker 2: when when you do this for the first time, is

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Speaker 2: the extent to which management simply will not show up

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Speaker 2: on time. Yeah, yeah, So, how has it actually been

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Speaker 2: sitting across the table from management and you know, hearing

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Speaker 2: their counter proposals and dealing with whenever they show up.

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Speaker 3: All of my bargaining so far has been happening on

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Speaker 3: the other side of a zoom or a team's screen,

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Speaker 3: since I'm remote to everybody else, which is a blessing

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Speaker 3: and a curse, right, I have kind of a buffer.

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Speaker 3: I'm not having to directly look at the faces of

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Speaker 3: the people who are coming in with salary proposals that

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Speaker 3: are dramatically less than what we proposed and what we

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Speaker 3: feel as industry standard at this point. But it also

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Speaker 3: means that like I'm by myself, I don't have somebody

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Speaker 3: near me to when like management leaves the room personally

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Speaker 3: react with. We kind of go around the circle in

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Speaker 3: the whoever's in the room and on the screen to

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Speaker 3: sort of say our reactions, but like it's lonely sometimes

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Speaker 3: to do it from afar, I do definitely have to

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Speaker 3: practice keeping my expression neutral because sometimes what we are

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Speaker 3: hearing is not neutral expression territory. And I also really

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Speaker 3: was not totally prepared to hear management justify their positions

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Speaker 3: on things like I will feel strongly that the correct

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Speaker 3: and most ethical thing to do is a particular thing,

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Speaker 3: and then management will explain their position on something and

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Speaker 3: I'll sort of be like, that's that's not the decision

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Speaker 3: I would like you to be making at all. And

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Speaker 3: I'm a little upset that I just heard you say

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Speaker 3: that just now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 4: And I'm in Atlanta. So most of our bargaining sessions

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Speaker 4: have happened in Atlanta. We have also have them in

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Speaker 4: New yorker le but so I have been in person

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Speaker 4: for most of the sitting down across from management and

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Speaker 4: like waiting a few hours after when they said they

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Speaker 4: would be ready to present their proposals, And it is

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Speaker 4: like tense and frustrating to sit in that and to

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Speaker 4: Tracy's point, like it is nice that we have the

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Speaker 4: rest of the committee with us to or whoever is

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Speaker 4: in Atlanta with us to sort of share in that together.

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Speaker 4: But the energy does get really tense at times, especially

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Speaker 4: in those situations where we've presented, hey, we would like,

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Speaker 4: however many days of bereavement leave so we can grieve

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Speaker 4: our family members, and then management comes back with an

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Speaker 4: offer that's like, well, what about just a couple of

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Speaker 4: days to grieve your dead family member? And so in

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Speaker 4: those situations where it's like, do you think of me

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Speaker 4: as a fellow human being, deserving of these like very

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Speaker 4: basic things to make my life.

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Speaker 1: Livable, and then their answer sort of feels.

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Speaker 4: Like a no, and you kind of just have to

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Speaker 4: like sit in that in person while they say it

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Speaker 4: to your face.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean, especially when it's something that personal,

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Speaker 2: or it's that or if it's something that parental leave,

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Speaker 2: where you know, this is your child, right, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: you're sitting across the table from someone being like, oh, yeah, no,

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Speaker 2: you actually you should get like two days to deal

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Speaker 2: with this. It's just a brutal we had.

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Speaker 3: It was a few months ago. We had a session

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Speaker 3: where we had a lot of testimonials that were accompanying

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Speaker 3: our actual contract proposals, and some of them were read

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Speaker 3: by the person who had written the testimonial, and some

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Speaker 3: of them were read by a different bargaining committee member

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Speaker 3: because somebody was just more comfortable remaining anonymous and having

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Speaker 3: somebody do that for them. And we had testimonials that

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Speaker 3: were all over the map in terms of things that

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Speaker 3: we were still in the process of bargaining, So we

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Speaker 3: had diversity testimonials, we had testimonials about parental leave, all

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Speaker 3: of this stuff, and one of the things that wound

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Speaker 3: up being just enormously frustrating was that it felt like

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Speaker 3: we went through all that and we presented so many

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Speaker 3: things about why this matters so much to all of us,

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Speaker 3: and the next round of counter proposals that we got

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Speaker 3: we're like the same negligible movements as from before. We

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Speaker 3: had all read all of the testimonials. And that was

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Speaker 3: not my favorite day of bargaining by far.

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Speaker 1: No, Yeah, that one was not not fun to be

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Speaker 1: in on.

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Speaker 2: And we are back. So, I mean, we've talked a

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Speaker 2: little bit about kind of belief stuff, and you know,

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Speaker 2: we've talked a little bit about some of the issues

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Speaker 2: that have been stuck in negotiations for two years. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I wanted to sort of see, you know, talk talk

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Speaker 2: about sort of the specifics of of where of where

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Speaker 2: the contract negotiations are right now, and how far apart

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Speaker 2: the company and the union is. And also just and

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Speaker 2: this is something that I think has been a theme

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Speaker 2: of these negotiations is the extent to which management is

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Speaker 2: below industry standard. So yeah, I guess we could start

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Speaker 2: with sort of wages there because that's one of the

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Speaker 2: places where they're very much below standard.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think we only have a TA on one

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Speaker 4: a TA being a tentative agreement on one title and

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Speaker 4: only for the rate that they're proposing in New York

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Speaker 4: City in LA. Another big thing with our minimums is

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Speaker 4: that they're different for producers and other titles living in

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Speaker 4: New York City in LA than they are for people in.

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Speaker 1: Those roles in other cities.

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Speaker 4: So, yeah, we are very far apart still on our

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Speaker 4: salary minimums.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: When we put together our proposals on salary minimums, like,

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Speaker 3: we didn't make them up out of nowhere. We did

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Speaker 3: a lot of research on pay rates at other unionized

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Speaker 3: podcast shops and other podcast businesses. We came up with

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Speaker 3: numbers that felt fair and industry standard based on all

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Speaker 3: of that research, and then management just came in so

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Speaker 3: much lower than all that. And then as Nomes just said,

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Speaker 3: there's this differential they're proposing between New York and LA

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Speaker 3: and everywhere else. Most of our unit is not in

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Speaker 3: New York or LA. A big chunk of the unit

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Speaker 3: is in Atlanta specifically, and the cost of living in

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Speaker 3: Atlanta is just not that much lower than New York

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Speaker 3: or LA. At this point, we've also been way apart

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Speaker 3: on annual increases. Originally management was proposing not to have

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Speaker 3: annual increases in the contract at all. And they've moved

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Speaker 3: past that, but the current proposals are still way way

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Speaker 3: less than the rate of inflation.

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Speaker 4: I mean it's about half, like half of what inflation is. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: like it does, it's not even inflation amount. And I

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Speaker 4: will say that, like for many of the job titles,

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Speaker 4: they're so far below what industries standard is.

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Speaker 1: With the like very little.

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Speaker 4: Incremental movement that they make every bargaining session, it's like

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Speaker 4: clear that they the company doesn't have any interest in

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Speaker 4: getting the industry standard, despite the fact that it is

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Speaker 4: like a large and well ranked podcasting company.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we just got the Webby Award as Podcast Company

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Speaker 3: of the Year, and we continue to be like when

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Speaker 3: rankings come out of the biggest podcast networks, like we're

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Speaker 3: always at or right near the top of the rankings.

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Speaker 3: All of that, we have a lot of shows that

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Speaker 3: are really well respected in you know, whatever subject matter

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Speaker 3: they are discussing, whatever broadly speaking genre of podcasts, and

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Speaker 3: so it sucks to then look at pay scales that

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Speaker 3: just don't line up with that in terms of like

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Speaker 3: the minimum of what the company will commit to offering people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think the person increase thing is really

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Speaker 2: frustrating too, because again, the way this works out with inflation.

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Speaker 2: And remember, so you know, if we started bargaining in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, right, inflation in twenty twenty two was

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Speaker 2: like three like twice what it is now. And if

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Speaker 2: you're getting, if you're not getting, this is something I

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Speaker 2: think that's important for everyone to understand, is that if

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Speaker 2: you're not getting so for inflation right now is about

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Speaker 2: three point four percent, if you're not getting a three

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Speaker 2: point four percent pay increase this year, that means you,

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Speaker 2: like you are taking a pay cut every single year,

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Speaker 2: right And the fact that you know this is this

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Speaker 2: is what my management's proposal is you take a pay

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Speaker 2: cut every single year and you're supposed to be fine

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Speaker 2: with this is incredibly frustrating. And I don't I don't

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Speaker 2: think it's it's it's it's not really understood in in

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Speaker 2: terms of you're literally taking a pay cut very much.

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Speaker 2: It's just talked of like it it's something that's talked

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Speaker 2: about is just like another benefit, but like, no, we're

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Speaker 2: trying not to take a pay cut.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, I would like to if my salary

355
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Speaker 4: is going to not take me any further at least

356
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Speaker 4: not take me any farther back. Yeah, I don't need

357
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Speaker 4: to lose money every year like I've done this year

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Speaker 4: in starting my second year at the company.

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Speaker 3: Right, there's been a lot of people who have not

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Speaker 3: had a raise since like before the pandemic started, And like,

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Speaker 3: I'm incredibly lucky I have been at my job forever.

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Speaker 3: I'm on one of the biggest shows that we have

363
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Speaker 3: in the network. Like, I'm doing okay, right, But a

364
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Speaker 3: lot of my colleagues who work on shows that don't

365
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Speaker 3: have as much power, don't have as big of an audience, like,

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Speaker 3: don't have as much much of an ad budget, People

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Speaker 3: who have been with the company less time, people who

368
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:05,120
Speaker 3: are like earlier on in their careers, especially like I've

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Speaker 3: watched these folks go through the last four years with

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Speaker 3: no increase in their pay, and like, I can see

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Speaker 3: people struggling now financially in a way that they weren't

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Speaker 3: struggling financially in twenty nineteen because their pay has not

373
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Speaker 3: changed at all. But the how much it costs to

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Speaker 3: exist in the world is so much more expensive.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we have some members right now who like would

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Speaker 4: receive a pay increase with what's being proposed currently, but

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Speaker 4: it is nowhere near the majority. Most people are going

378
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Speaker 4: to lose money with the numbers as they are right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's when the things that just you know,

380
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Speaker 2: I mean, and even even the sort of industry standard

381
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Speaker 2: in podcasting isn't great, but that's one of these things

382
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Speaker 2: that's you know, very much below industry standard. And there's

383
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Speaker 2: been another one of these things that I wanted to

384
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Speaker 2: talk about that's kind of baffling that I think everyone

385
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 2: involved thought that this would be something that there wouldn't

386
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 2: be a huge fight over. But that's at will employment

387
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 2: you talk about that.

388
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah too, So just cause employment means your employer

389
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 3: has to have just cause to terminate your employment. Your

390
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 3: employer cannot just do it willy nilly. And it's a

391
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Speaker 3: core part of like the rights that union's bargain for

392
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 3: is to have a process for somebody to be disciplined

393
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 3: and lose their job. It's a very basic thing, basic

394
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Speaker 3: union protection. And the management has has held firm that

395
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Speaker 3: they basically want to not only have at will employment standards,

396
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Speaker 3: but like enshrine that in the contract.

397
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Speaker 4: Yeah, meaning that they want to be able to fire

398
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Speaker 4: us for any reason at any time, regardless of whether

399
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 4: or not we've done something actually warrant that loss of

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Speaker 4: our income.

401
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's something I think is really important that

402
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 2: I don't think people think about it this way. But

403
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,400
Speaker 2: you know, both for if you're doing work that's politically

404
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 2: sensitive or also if you are marginalized, that is a

405
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,640
Speaker 2: you know, not not having your boss not be able

406
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 2: to fire you for literally any reason is it's a

407
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 2: necessary piece of protection. And if you don't have that,

408
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 2: you can have a situation where I don't know, you

409
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 2: have one boss who's racist or one boss who's transphobic,

410
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,239
Speaker 2: and you know, you and everyone like you's careers are

411
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 2: just gone. And without that kind of protection, you know,

412
00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 2: it's it's incredibly it's incredibly dangerous for like for marginalized

413
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 2: people to you know, I mean even just like to

414
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 2: be able to speak up about things that are happening

415
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 2: to you, right like, yes, like tech technically speaking, retaliation

416
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 2: is illegal. However, commu see see the entire history of

417
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 2: labor in America and tell me whether it tell me,

418
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 2: explain to me whether or not it at it still

419
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 2: actually happens, especially when you can just fire someone for

420
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,679
Speaker 2: some other reason or again in this case, you can

421
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 2: fire them for no reason.

422
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

423
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Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's it's a thing that is so baffling

424
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Speaker 4: because there's no union contract without just cause.

425
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Speaker 1: Like there's a number of reasons why people unionize.

426
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 4: Obviously we want better salaries, Obviously we want better healthcare.

427
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 1: But there's you don't form a union and then still

428
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 1: allow a.

429
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Speaker 4: Contract that says, yeah, and also though we can fire

430
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 4: you at any reason, because that is sort of the

431
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 4: antithesis of like what we're about, which is that there's

432
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 4: like due process and structures in place that like people

433
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 4: who provide the labor for this company can't just like

434
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 4: at a moment's notice, be out of healthcare and income

435
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 4: and all of that comes with that.

436
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean politically, like it's it. And you know,

437
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 2: if you look at this as a political system, it's

438
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 2: a difference between pure dictatorial rule where everything is just

439
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 2: done purely by fiat right, where you know, like the

440
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 2: person who rules you can do whatever they want to you,

441
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 2: and there being something like a functional legal process which

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00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 2: constrains the power of rulers to just sort of enact

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00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 2: their will on you. And that's you know, an incredibly

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00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 2: fundamental basic part of what a union is is the

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00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 2: democratization of the workplace.

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00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's That's one of the things that I

447
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 3: think is so important about just the right to unionize

448
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 3: in general, that I think a lot of people who

449
00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 3: have never been part of a union don't fully understanding

450
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,719
Speaker 3: some of this based on comments I continually see on

451
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 3: ARII ads, which I am served all the time as

452
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 3: a person who hikes a lot, because currently their comments

453
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 3: on their ads are a whole lot of people saying,

454
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 3: stop union busting ARII. And then there are always people

455
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 3: who are like, it's retail. If you don't like it,

456
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 3: get a better job, or they're saying something like ARII

457
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 3: has always voted one of the greatest employers, like you

458
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 3: should just be thankful for what you have, And I'm like,

459
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 3: the thing is, though, an employer has so much more

460
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 3: power than an individual employee. Your employer has a whole

461
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 3: HR structure and lawyers and way more money than any

462
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:44,959
Speaker 3: individual person working for them. And that's why employees have

463
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 3: the right to come together collectively to just balance that

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00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 3: out a little bit. Like a union is still going

465
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 3: to have a power differential between themselves and the company.

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00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 3: We have a whole lot more equity and a whole

467
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 3: lot more access to that power together then as one

468
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 3: individual person going to their manager asking nicely to have

469
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 3: a couple extra days off because their parent died or whatever.

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00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, as the old the Old song goes, what force

471
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 2: on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one,

472
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 2: but the Union makes us strong? Yeah, I think I

473
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 2: think that's a good sort of place to end on.

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00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 2: The negotiations are still ongoing, flying next week.

475
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 3: To be there in person next week already. Yeah, Yeah,

476
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 3: a little scary. I don't know what to wear to

477
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 3: an office anymore.

478
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 1: Oh see, and me either.

479
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,199
Speaker 4: I actually just show up how I am always in

480
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 4: my normal life.

481
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: So I encourage you to do the same.

482
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 3: Can I get a Union shirt from you when I

483
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 3: get there?

484
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: Oh please?

485
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 4: They're literally clogging my home and I would love to

486
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 4: give you one.

487
00:27:54,720 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: So I have one of that, all right?

488
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 2: So where where can people go to find the Union

489
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 2: and to support us.

490
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 4: We are on Twitter at Iheartpod Union. We're on Instagram

491
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 4: also at Iheartpod Union.

492
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's where you can find us on social media.

493
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 3: We're on Blue Sky at iHeart Podcast Union. I have

494
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 3: the keys to that one right now, and I have

495
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 3: not been really active with it. I'm sorry.

496
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, many an update goes out on the Twitter so

497
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 4: you can stay in touch there.

498
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and in the in the meantime between now and bargaining,

499
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 2: this has been naked happen here. Thank you to so

500
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 2: much for coming on and yeah, let's let's go. Let's

501
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 2: let's let's get ourselves a good contract.

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00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, we're gonna get a good contract.

503
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: And it is such a pleasure to work with the

504
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: both of you.

505
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 3: Oh yes you, thank you so much Mia for having

506
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 3: us on.

507
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 2: Yeah for sure, always happy to all right, and this

508
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 2: is also your daily union episode reminder that you too

509
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 2: can do this. You too can spend an enormous amount

510
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 2: of time going through a spreadsheet.

511
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 3: And then finally spreadsheets.

512
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: Turn it look. Unionization is the process of turning a

513
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 2: spreadsheet into into a into a fighting organization.

514
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: You two can get lost in a sea of Google docs.

515
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 2: But I promise you all, as as much as this

516
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 2: episode has been about, you know, the sort of stubbornness

517
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 2: of management and how you know, and how kind of

518
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 2: demoralizing that process can be, it is worth it, I

519
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 2: promise you all. It is and you can you can

520
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 2: do it too.

521
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media.

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00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 4: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

523
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 4: cool zonemedia dot com or check us out on the

524
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 4: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever.

525
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: You listen to podcasts.

526
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 2: You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated

527
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 2: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources.

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00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening and