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Speaker 3: All Right, welcome to Hoop tonight here at the volume.

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Speaker 3: Happy Wednesday, everybody. Hope all of you guys are having

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Speaker 3: a great week well. Coming into the series, we were

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Speaker 3: hopeful that things would be competitive, that they'd be interesting.

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Speaker 3: And here we are after three games of the NBA

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Speaker 3: Five Finals, and the Pacers are up to one two

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Speaker 3: games away from potentially stealing what would be one of

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Speaker 3: the craziest NBA championships that I've seen in my time

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Speaker 3: cover in the NBA. I can think of nobody better

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Speaker 3: to break this down with. Then Colin Cowhard, who has

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Speaker 3: been kind enough to give us his time tonight and

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Speaker 3: join the show. Colin, where is your head at after

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Speaker 3: three games of the NBA Finals.

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Speaker 1: Well, the Pacers, you know, and you and I had

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Speaker 1: talked about this. The Celtics this year were better on

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Speaker 1: the road than at home. Denver is the same team.

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma City is not the same team on the road.

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Speaker 2: They're not.

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Speaker 1: They're they're bench players. Their rotational players are young. That's

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Speaker 1: the downside, the youth. They are not the same team

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Speaker 1: on the road. They're very vulnerable. Tonight they had nineteen turnovers.

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Speaker 1: They got really sloppy. I didn't think Sga ever got

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Speaker 1: into a great rhythm. He did a great job coaching

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Speaker 1: and prodding and poking his team. But my take the

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Speaker 1: way is like tonight was a game that you know,

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Speaker 1: in football, there's the old thing about you can steal

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Speaker 1: yards and field position and over the course of the

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Speaker 1: game you get better field position.

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Speaker 2: I thought the.

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Speaker 1: Pacers between steals blocks they had eleven Between offensive rebounds,

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Speaker 1: stole about eight to ten points tonight. Just sneaky points,

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Speaker 1: you know, like one of them is McConnell on the inbounds.

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Speaker 1: I think from Carusoe steels at play. That's a huge,

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Speaker 1: huge play, especially when you're the home team in the

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Speaker 1: crowded ups. And I just thought, over the course of

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Speaker 1: the game, just eight four or five baskets either denied

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Speaker 1: or provided sneaky points. And that's kind of the difference

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Speaker 1: in the game. It was just I mean that game

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Speaker 1: until the last three minutes, I didn't know it was

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Speaker 1: gonna win it. It was just a very tight game.

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Speaker 1: And I think they deserve a lot of credit. I

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Speaker 1: mean Indiana's bench, Jesus, I mean god, that again bench

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Speaker 1: at home, bench on the road. Matherin who starts sometimes

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Speaker 1: for them, Who's that? It reminds me a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a little Westbrook.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: Westbrook was hyper athletic. Maverin was a quarterback and a

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Speaker 1: hockey player in Canada. Goes to Arizona, as you know,

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Speaker 1: crushes it. Super athletic, but not as out of control

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Speaker 1: as Westbrook. Like he's gonna be a he's gonna be

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Speaker 1: a great player in this league. But I guess that's

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Speaker 1: my The Pacers just a lot of blocks and steals

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Speaker 1: and effort points and that's the ballgame.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I had my eye on Matherin and

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Speaker 3: McConnell in particular off of the Pacers bench coming into

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Speaker 3: this series, not because I'm an Arizona fan, although obviously

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Speaker 3: it's been awesome watching those guys just kill it. I mean,

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Speaker 3: twenty eight points in an NBA Finals game. That is

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Speaker 3: like a real feather in the cap for a young

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Speaker 3: basketball player. And honestly, like when you I've had a

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Speaker 3: lot of mail back questions and things like that from

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Speaker 3: fans over the course of the last couple of weeks

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Speaker 3: who've been asking, like, what's the next step for the Pacers, Like,

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Speaker 3: where's their next leap? And it's that kid, it's him,

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Speaker 3: it's him becoming six an All Star level guard.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know I said this, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you and I talked about this. Oklahoma City's

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Speaker 1: got more depth, but there's this sense that, Okay, Oklahoma

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Speaker 1: City's talent's here in indiana's his blow And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I don't, I don't really buy that.

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Speaker 2: I think I think McConnell. I think TJ.

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Speaker 1: McConnell is a really, really good basketball player. I think Matherin,

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Speaker 1: who started some games for them this year. He started

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Speaker 1: he was like their third or fourth leading scorer, he's exploding.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we all know that Siakam and Halley are great.

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Speaker 1: Miles Turner's defense in the second half was unbelievable. Like,

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Speaker 1: I don't think the gap in talent, especially when you

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Speaker 1: go back home, I don't think it's that. I mean

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Speaker 1: Obi Toppin his dunk, I put it, put him up

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Speaker 1: by seven, and then he got a block on the

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Speaker 1: other end. Like, I think the talent disparity here is inches,

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Speaker 1: not feet. I think Indiana's got a real team and

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Speaker 1: they and they have a lot of different players. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Obi Toppins hyper athletic, Miles Turner's a rim protector. Say

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Speaker 1: Ockham's got a pretty touch. Hallie's more assistant scoring but

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Speaker 1: can do both. Nie Smith can hit threes. McConnell's the

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Speaker 1: spark plug, Matherin's the young, emerging, hyper athletic guy. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they got a lot of levers to pull. So I

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Speaker 1: watched this. It's just fun watching this series, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: at the end of the game, I'm like, is the

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Speaker 1: Indiana they have more good players?

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Speaker 2: I mean, they just pulled a lot of levers tonight.

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Speaker 3: I do think they're better down the roster in terms

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Speaker 3: of just the level of like consistency they get from

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Speaker 3: all of their supporting players. There's like I'm watching the

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Speaker 3: end of the second quarter and like Ben Shepherd's out

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Speaker 3: there and Mathern and McConnell and I'm sitting there and

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Speaker 3: I'm like, this is Carlisle riding his bench and like

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Speaker 3: what is typically a starting group session. I think where

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Speaker 3: you see the talent gap between okay See and Indiana

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Speaker 3: is like just that like top end shot creation, like

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Speaker 3: when things really bogged down and both defenses are locked in,

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Speaker 3: Shay is just so much better, like getting to his

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Speaker 3: spots and finding those shots that he can make. I

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Speaker 3: think I do think that Oklahoma City at their best,

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Speaker 3: their ceiling is higher than India, like when they're moving

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Speaker 3: the ball well and they're knocking down shots. And for

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Speaker 3: the record, like if you're in a matchup like this

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Speaker 3: where you're a substantial underdog, you're trying to create variants,

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Speaker 3: You're trying to create margin and all the stuff you're

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Speaker 3: talking about, I agree with you. They won this game

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Speaker 3: in the margins. They won this game forcing turnovers, blocking

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Speaker 3: shots at the rim and ball pressuring shake Gildess Alexander

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Speaker 3: so much that he looked exhausted by the end of

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Speaker 3: the game. And this is all low hanging fruit in

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Speaker 3: basketball that's available for basically everybody. Anybody can pick up

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Speaker 3: the ball full court, anybody can be aggressive in rotation

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Speaker 3: and play passing lanes. There's a certain athletic minimum you

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Speaker 3: need to have, but anybody's capable of taking advantage of

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Speaker 3: these margins. And to me, that's been the story of

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Speaker 3: the Pacers this entire postseason run is they have been

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Speaker 3: so good on the margins. They're making it so that

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Speaker 3: the the their variance is much lower than other teams

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Speaker 3: because they're getting so much that low hanging fruit every

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Speaker 3: single game.

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Speaker 1: So Oklahoma City is two and four on the road

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Speaker 1: in the last three playoff rounds.

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Speaker 2: So we have found the hole.

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Speaker 1: You know, every boxer, every baseball player, even Barry Bonds

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Speaker 1: when he was on cattle steroids, there's there's a there's

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Speaker 1: a there's part of the strikest and he can't hit.

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Speaker 1: Usually for a batter, it's on the hands. And we're

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Speaker 1: looking for where's the hole in Oklahoma City's game and

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Speaker 1: it's this young team on the road. There is a

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Speaker 1: great variance what you get at home and what you

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Speaker 1: get on the road and we found it, and Indiana

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Speaker 1: is a tremendously good home team. It just it's it's

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Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, Miles Turner doesn't get a lot

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Speaker 1: of love. You know, his his asthetic, he'll hit the

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Speaker 1: corner of three. But that dude in the second half.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Homegrown was great early. But Miles is one

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Speaker 1: of those guys that in the league, everybody knows about

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Speaker 1: Miles Turner. I mean, if he's on the market, Lakers included,

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Speaker 1: there'll be multiple Sooners for Miles Turner.

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Speaker 2: Everybody in the league gets it.

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Speaker 1: But on this team, you know, like tonight, we're watching

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Speaker 1: McConnell and we'ren Halliburt and we're always watching Siakam. I thought,

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Speaker 1: I thought in the second half, I thought Myles Turner

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Speaker 1: was huge.

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Speaker 3: I agree he he The specific dynamic he struggled with

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Speaker 3: a little bit in this series is Carlisle has him

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Speaker 3: coming way out to the perimeter to show at the

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Speaker 3: level of these ball screens and the thunderguards are just

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Speaker 3: so fast that he's had some trouble containing him there.

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Speaker 3: But in that second, in that second half, it was

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Speaker 3: almost like he found his second win to where he

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Speaker 3: was moving a little better, so he wasn't losing contain

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Speaker 3: as much. Carlile had him start to be more aggressive

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Speaker 3: and attack the ball in more of like a blitz too,

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Speaker 3: which worked. He forced a couple turnovers that way, and

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Speaker 3: then at the rim. Like Miles, Turner has always been

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Speaker 3: one of the best like shot blockers in the league.

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Speaker 3: He always racks up high shot block totals and got

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Speaker 3: shit at the rim that closed out. He's got crazy

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Speaker 3: that close out on the three point shot from chet

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Speaker 3: late that was a big one. The stuff with Matherin

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Speaker 3: and McConnell I find really fascinating. The reason why I

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Speaker 3: was keyed in on them to start the series is

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Speaker 3: when you're playing these young, super athletic teams like Oklahoma City,

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Speaker 3: the guys that become super important are your athletes, the

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Speaker 3: guys that have like some sort of physical trait that's

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Speaker 3: tough to match up with. TJ McConnell is unassuming, but

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Speaker 3: he is actually one of the very best guards in

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Speaker 3: the NBA beating people off the dribble. So he's immensely

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Speaker 3: valuable in this matchup because he can get that first

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Speaker 3: bit of dribble penetration that breaks down Oklahoma City's defense.

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Speaker 3: And he's such a good staunch athlete, like in terms

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Speaker 3: of like his but being a fire hydrant, low center

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Speaker 3: of gravity guy. He can pressure the ball and pick

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Speaker 3: up full court. He had three steals on baseline inbounds

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Speaker 3: in this game. Those were huge sequences in this game.

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Speaker 3: And then Ben matherin same sort of thing. He is

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Speaker 3: capable against a very athletic Thunder team of getting to

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Speaker 3: his spots and rising up and knocking down shots because

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Speaker 3: he's a supreme att fleet that can handle the ball.

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Speaker 3: Nemhard is a good ball handler who's not a supreme athlete,

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Speaker 3: and Nie Smith is an elite athlete who's not a

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Speaker 3: good ball handler. TJ and Ben are both great athletes

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Speaker 3: and great ball handlers, and that's made them very valuable

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Speaker 3: in this matchup. And again like like Ben that like

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Speaker 3: we're we just saw a young player put up a

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Speaker 3: massive twenty eight point game in a lust to win

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Speaker 3: NBA Finals game Like that is a huge moment for

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Speaker 3: a young player there. And like as far as like

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Speaker 3: zooming out and looking at the series, like I still

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Speaker 3: lean Oklahoma City. We have seen before teams like you

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Speaker 3: know the series. This actually reminds me a lot of

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Speaker 3: is Cleveland in twenty fifteen versus Golden State, where Golden

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Speaker 3: State is clearly the better team, but they're young and

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Speaker 3: they're inexperienced, and it's their first Finals appearance and they

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Speaker 3: look a little shook from the environment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and Lebron goes up to one on them.

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Speaker 3: Now, obviously Indiana doesn't have the Lebron element, but there

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Speaker 3: was obviously way less talent down the roster, but Indiana

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Speaker 3: does have more veteran experience or an older team.

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Speaker 1: Right, So what.

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Speaker 3: Happens with Indiana here is they're up to one, but

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Speaker 3: Golden State was the better team. They came in, won

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Speaker 3: Game four, then they went home in won Game five,

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Speaker 3: Then they went back to Cleveland and they won in

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Speaker 3: Game six. I am going to give Indiana a good

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Speaker 3: chance to win at least one more home game. So

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Speaker 3: I do think this has a good chance to go seven.

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Speaker 3: But I would still make Oklahoma City the favorite at

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Speaker 3: this point before I kick it to you, just you know,

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Speaker 3: the Thunder are still from DraftKings minus two thirty to

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Speaker 3: win the series, and the Thunder are minus six favorites

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Speaker 3: in game four. Where are you at in the series

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Speaker 3: moving forward at this point?

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, Game seven's in Oklahoma City, and they're

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Speaker 1: really good at home. And again, bench guys rotational guys

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Speaker 1: are different players at home. I mean the Indiana's bench

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Speaker 1: in the second quarter to night was insane. I mean

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Speaker 1: it was literally, I mean I think Carlisle was shook.

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Speaker 1: I mean it was just like, Wow, that's one of

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Speaker 1: their best quarter of the playoffs. I think, like I

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Speaker 1: one of the things that was a little surprising to me.

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Speaker 1: I thought Oklahoma City looked tired in the fourth.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and now.

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Speaker 1: Now the first half it was sixty four to sixty.

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Speaker 1: I think the pace was in It would totally Indiana's pace.

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Speaker 1: It slowed down as games can. Is that it situationally

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Speaker 1: as the possessions get very, very big. But you noticed

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Speaker 1: it too. I thought, okay, see looked a little gas

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Speaker 1: in the fourth. They had a bad fourth quarter.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's the advantage of ball pressure. Like there's

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Speaker 3: been a lot of talk about the coverages. I have

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Speaker 3: had my concerns with how they've used Turner because I

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Speaker 3: think Turner's a very good shot blocker, so I want

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Speaker 3: him at the rim. I don't think he's particularly fast,

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Speaker 3: so I don't want him on the perimeter. So like

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Speaker 3: I've wanted him sitting further back. But a lot of

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Speaker 3: the full court ball pressure stuff has also had some

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Speaker 3: downsides in that One of the things Oklahoma City will

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Speaker 3: do is they'll have Hertenstein come out or Check come out,

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Speaker 3: and they'll screen like almost at half court while Shay's

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Speaker 3: battling the ball pressure and then he gets ahead of

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Speaker 3: steam from like sixty feet away from the rim. And

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Speaker 3: he got a lot of layups early in the game

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Speaker 3: out of stuff like that. And so there there's a

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Speaker 3: downside to ball pressure in that you can beat ball

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Speaker 3: pressure and get dribble penetration. The upside with ball pressure

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Speaker 3: is in the big picture, which is for forty eight

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Speaker 3: minutes in front of that crazy home crowd, when you're

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Speaker 3: facing Nie Smith and Matherin and Nemhart and all these

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Speaker 3: guys just in your jersey the entire game down the stretch,

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Speaker 3: you just don't have the legs because beating that ball

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Speaker 3: pressure just takes it out of your legs.

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Speaker 4: And so there's no doubt.

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Speaker 3: That like Indiana played the long game tonight in Oklahoma

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Speaker 3: City controlled at various points, but down the stretch, Shay

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Speaker 3: had his hands on his knees. He was trying to

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Speaker 3: grift a little bit more down the stretch looking for

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Speaker 3: foul calls. Like you can tell he was tired.

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Speaker 1: You know the other thing that you know, this is

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Speaker 1: just something you don't talk about a lot.

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Speaker 2: We don't, analysts don't. But I remember talking to.

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Speaker 1: Mark Warkin team I covered him at NLB with Jerry Tarkani,

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Speaker 1: and he was an executive in the league, and he

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Speaker 1: used to always say the most underappreciated part of those

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Speaker 1: great Michael Jordan Bulls teams was their length. He was

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Speaker 1: like Rodman was long, Pippin was wrong, Luke Longley was long.

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Speaker 2: Everybody but Steve.

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Speaker 1: Kerr was long like Ron Harper, and he was just

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Speaker 1: like they just got their hand on the balls. Indiana

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Speaker 1: is long when toppin' Sayakam Turner, Halliburton's long there tonight,

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Speaker 1: just to show you their length. Okase had four blocks,

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Speaker 1: Indiana had eleven. Okaysee had six deals, Indiana had thirteen.

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Speaker 1: How many balls? How many times in this game did

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Speaker 1: you see the ball loose around the free throw line?

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Speaker 1: And it was just a pacer that got their hand

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Speaker 1: on it and keep when they there are certain TJ.

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Speaker 1: McConnell's obviously not long, but he's feisty and quick. He

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Speaker 1: gets his hand and he's fast.

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Speaker 2: But dud when they've.

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Speaker 1: Got Turner and Halliburton and topping. That is that the

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Speaker 1: length of the Pacers, And I thought it really frustrated.

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Speaker 1: Okac Chet Holme Green had multiple shots blocked, So we

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Speaker 1: don't talk a lot about that. Rebounding is a lot

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Speaker 1: of things beyond length, but length gives you those extra

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Speaker 1: possessions and touches and disruptions, blocks and steals tonight, I

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Speaker 1: mean just totally one sided. And I think again that's

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Speaker 1: stealing points, which I thought the Pacers did.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Like there was a play where Jadub got a

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Speaker 3: clean corner catch out of the left corner. He might

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Speaker 3: remember this one in the in the first half and

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Speaker 3: or no, it was in the it was in the

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Speaker 3: second half. It was in the early part of the

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Speaker 3: second half, and Jay Dub drove Baseline had a dunk,

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Speaker 3: but Tyres came over and Tyrees has long arms, Like

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Speaker 3: Tyrese has got length to your point and he.

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Speaker 2: In this point guard in the league.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's got reasonable vertical athleticism too, So he

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Speaker 3: got up and he contested Jadub and Jadab missed the dunk.

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Speaker 3: He missed the dunk. And there have been a few

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Speaker 3: plays in this yeries like I actually think Halliburton has

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Speaker 3: been a very good defensive player in this entire playoff run.

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Speaker 3: Like he's been sneaky, really good because he's the thing

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Speaker 3: within this is to Carlisle's that everyone's committed to doing

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Speaker 3: the job. And then ty Reese like plays hard, like

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Speaker 3: he's got his limitations. He's not very big and strong

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Speaker 3: and it kind of looks like a a chicken run

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Speaker 3: around his head cut off sometimes on defense, but like

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Speaker 3: he's got the length to be impactful that in that situation.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, like there was a there was a stretch

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Speaker 3: there late in the game where Carlisle rides top in

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Speaker 3: for that exact reason, like him being able to go

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Speaker 3: over the top of Oklahoma City on offense or meet

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Speaker 3: somebody at the summit at the rim on the other end,

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Speaker 3: Like those were that those have been huge parts of

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Speaker 3: Indiana success throughout this entire postseason run. And again, like

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Speaker 3: you want to know how you play passing lanes with length,

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Speaker 3: because all of a sudden it looks open the passer

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Speaker 3: makes the read and it's not open because you have

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Speaker 3: the ability to close that ground. The one thing I

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Speaker 3: will say, and this is one of the reasons why

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Speaker 3: I still lean towards Oklahoma City to win the series,

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Speaker 3: there was a stretch in the third quarter where I

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Speaker 3: thought Oklahoma City really leveraged their athleticism.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're a gay third corner team too. They've done

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Speaker 1: this in the playoffs multiple times.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and like going back, even I thought Game two

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Speaker 3: felt like the entire night felt like that. I don't

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Speaker 3: think Indiana can beat Oklahoma City in Oklahoma City in

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Speaker 3: a must win game because I think they can leverage

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Speaker 3: their defense and physicality and overall athleticism to the point

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Speaker 3: that's like almost too much for them to overcome. So

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Speaker 3: I think Indiana's pathway is they have to win the

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Speaker 3: two home games. They absolutely can. For the record, I'm

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Speaker 3: not saying Oklahoma City is like the surefire going to

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Speaker 3: still win the series. I lean towards Oklahoma City, But

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Speaker 3: Indiana I think has to win on Friday, and I

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Speaker 3: think they have to win next week on Thursday. I

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Speaker 3: think that's their path.

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Speaker 1: Well, in the first six minutes of the game, Oklahoma

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Speaker 1: City was very disruptive. The Pacers were frustrated the starters,

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Speaker 1: they just weren't getting good looks. So I mean Oklahoma

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Speaker 1: City when they weren't gassed late and they're disruptive, there's

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Speaker 1: no getting around it. They're just fast and long and

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Speaker 1: it's almost collegiate like we've talked about.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't look like other defense.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I just don't want to fall for

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Speaker 1: this because I fell for it with Denver and Boston

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, these are going to be dynasties

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Speaker 1: and there are holes in Oklahoma City. I mean, they'll

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Speaker 1: probably lose Jalen Williams. Eventually, they can't pay everybody, and

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Speaker 1: they're going to pay home Grin because he's just you know,

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Speaker 1: he's just physically a different There's not a lot of

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Speaker 1: him out there. They're going to pay SGA and you

371
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Speaker 1: know how it works now you can't pay three guys.

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Speaker 1: You know, Boston's going to go through this. So I

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Speaker 1: mean it's I know a lot of people look at

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma City and think, oh boy, this is going to

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Speaker 1: be something that they're going to be bad for the league.

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Speaker 2: And my take is this series is great.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we have two of the games in this

378
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Speaker 1: series have been all Timer's and I also think I

379
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,399
Speaker 1: think Indiana is a real team. I mean, I'm watching

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Speaker 1: matherin tonight and again I think he's got a little

381
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Speaker 1: bit of Westbrook, but he's not out of control. He's

382
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Speaker 1: a little bit more refined at this age. And he

383
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Speaker 1: was a better college player than Westbrook. Again, more defined,

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Speaker 1: and I think he was the pac twelve player of

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Speaker 1: the year if I call, well then when he like.

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Speaker 3: I can't remember.

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Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, he was a great player.

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Speaker 1: But my takeaway I watched him and I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna be good. Halliburton and him and McConnell and

390
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Speaker 1: and sa yah. Come, It's like Indiana's going nowhere. This

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I said this going back to the

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Speaker 1: Cleveland series. I love watching the Pacers play. I love

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Speaker 1: their style, I love their I love Halliburton. I just

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Speaker 1: there's just there's something about a team. There's a joy

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Speaker 1: when Indiana plays. They are having a really good time,

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Speaker 1: and I think it just comes to the TV.

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Speaker 3: One hundred percent agree. Like I I understand some of

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Speaker 3: the uh, the negativity surrounding the finals in the sense

399
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Speaker 3: that like it lacks some of that juice for you know,

400
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Speaker 3: especially for casual fans.

401
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Speaker 1: To small doesn't have game two games, yeah, yeah.

402
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Speaker 3: And game two is super boring, like and it like,

403
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,719
Speaker 3: and it obviously has not been hitting great TV ratings,

404
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,080
Speaker 3: But there is a natural ebb and flow with the

405
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,640
Speaker 3: cycle of the NBA as stars a in and out,

406
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Speaker 3: and we're definitely in one of those roles right now.

407
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Speaker 3: But I do think that the Pacers are providing an

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Speaker 3: excellent showcase for another up and coming team in the

409
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Speaker 3: Eastern Conference. And by the way, the East is pretty

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Speaker 3: wide open, Like you could argue Indy has every bit

411
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Speaker 3: as good a chance to make it back to the

412
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Speaker 3: finals next year as Oklahoma City does with how open

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Speaker 3: things are in the Eastern Conference, right. I love the

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Speaker 3: point you made about Olahoma City, like it will get tougher, like.

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Speaker 3: I think Oklahoma City needs to get this one, because

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Speaker 3: the reality is is that once you start it to

417
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Speaker 3: your point, if you pay all three of those guys

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Speaker 3: max maxes, and by the way, they're not gonna be

419
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Speaker 3: regular Maxes. These are gonna be all NBA players, They're

420
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Speaker 3: gonna be super mass right, like right, And so once

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Speaker 3: you pay all those guys, they're gonna basically have to

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Speaker 3: surround them with a bunch of guys on rookie contracts,

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Speaker 3: Like I think they're gonna end up using all these

424
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Speaker 3: draft pick draft picks. They have to just cycle role

425
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Speaker 3: players through, and they're gonna be hunting like three four

426
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Speaker 3: year college guys that play for major programs like Kansas

427
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:50,919
Speaker 3: and Villanova that they can trust to come in and

428
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Speaker 3: play role player basketball in the end. That's what I

429
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Speaker 3: think that they're gonna end up. That's what I think

430
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Speaker 3: Sam Prest's gonna end up doing, and so their margin

431
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,320
Speaker 3: will get smaller because they won't be surrounded by as

432
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Speaker 3: much talent. This is a particularly important series for them

433
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Speaker 3: I wanted to move on to the Knicks. So I

464
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 3: see this report this morning and it's from Sham's talking

465
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,160
Speaker 3: about how they're just calling up around all these big

466
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 3: shot coaches in the league, Jason Kidd email Udoka, Quinn Snyder,

467
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 3: Chris Finch. What do you make of this bizarre behavior

468
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 3: from the Knicks right now?

469
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 1: I'm not a tinfoil hat guy, but James Dolan, who's

470
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,359
Speaker 1: been in a band I'm not sure if he still is,

471
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 1: views himself as an artist and that's why he is.

472
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 1: His His greatest achievement is not the Knicks. I mean

473
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 1: he inherited the cable vision from his dad. Right it's

474
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: the Sphere in Vegas, which is a remarkable have you

475
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:05,679
Speaker 1: been there?

476
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 2: I think you've been there.

477
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,400
Speaker 3: Six timely love it?

478
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's a remarkable musical engagement achievement all time

479
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 1: in the world. And that's really where his heart is.

480
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 1: Irving Ave's off A former great promoter now I think

481
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 1: he's MGM Management is one of his closest friends. He was,

482
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 1: you know, he was a had a record label. That's who.

483
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 1: That's who James Dolan is. So when he wants to

484
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 1: get a GM, he goes after a star Phil Jackson.

485
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: Then he wanted Steve Kerr and Amari stodammeire on bad

486
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,160
Speaker 1: Knees out of Phoenix, and Tibbs isn't his kind of guy.

487
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: So who does he go after? Jason Kidd, who's a star.

488
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 1: He's interested in Kevin Durant, who's a star. That's who

489
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: James Dolan is. He hangs around stars, he loves stars.

490
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 1: He's a creative. This is not a criticism, but I

491
00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 1: think he listened to his players grumble. You know, he

492
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 1: sat down with his players and again he relates to

493
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,439
Speaker 1: artists and athletes and stars. He just go look at

494
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: the history. And when he was doing the Spear for

495
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: two years, he was disengaged from the team and they

496
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 1: got very patient and very pragmatic and very basketball. He

497
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 1: and very villanova ish and that's Tibbs. And so you

498
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: get rid of Tibbs. It's not the same culture, it's

499
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: not the same team. You still have the Villanova guys,

500
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,880
Speaker 1: but it won't feel the same. So it just feels

501
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: like James and I almost you know, he reminds me

502
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: a little bit of Jim Ersay in that Ersay would

503
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: rather sit with his guitar and hang out with Dylan

504
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 1: outside of football more than anything else. And I think

505
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 1: James Dolen's a little bit of that. And I think

506
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 1: he's an emotional guy. He's an artist. He relates to

507
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: artists and he listens to his stars, and he didn't

508
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: have a plan. And I think it's a big, big mistake.

509
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: By the way, this is what every Nick fan dreaded,

510
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 1: is that when he came back from the sphere he

511
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 1: would get hands on And there are various reports on

512
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: who has their fingerprints on this, but they're not getting

513
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: rid of TIBs. He just signed a new deal without Dolan,

514
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 1: you know, acquiescing to a suggestion or making the move himself.

515
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: So in the end, this is what the Knicks man this.

516
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: This league's crazy owners in the NFL and the NBA.

517
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: You know that all owners now Jason are billionaires. It

518
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 1: was ten years ago they weren't they made they were

519
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: worth six hundred million or eight hundred million. They wouldn't

520
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: blow out staffs, They didn't want to write a forty

521
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 1: six million dollar check. That is a rounding air. And

522
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 1: now of these owners and they're all I see it

523
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 1: in the NFL all the time. Guys will just blow

524
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: out staffs, David Tepper write a sixty eighty million dollar check.

525
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: The owners didn't want to do that eight ten, twelve

526
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 1: years ago.

527
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 2: They do now. So I don't know who they're going

528
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:00,400
Speaker 2: to land they.

529
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: I mean, they've been turned out by seven coaches, all

530
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: the good ones, Finch and Emaio Duka and Jason Kidd,

531
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: and they're just getting turned down by everybody.

532
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, matt Ishbia blew out of staff twice within two

533
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 3: years of owning the team.

534
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 4: It's ridiculous.

535
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 3: I uh, you know, it's it's fascinating because, like I

536
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 3: tried to look at it in a very open minded way,

537
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 3: because like I actually do think Jason Kid's a better

538
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 3: coach now than he gets credit for a couple of

539
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 3: years ago. I wasn't super high on him, but he,

540
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 3: just like anybody else, as a competitor, has been doing

541
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 3: it for a while now, and he's gotten pretty good

542
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 3: at it. Like I was looking at the Knicks for

543
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 3: a second, like I agree with you in terms of

544
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 3: the the kind of topsy turvy, unstable nature with which

545
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 3: you look and you portray to people when you fire

546
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 3: your coach in a situation like this, But I also

547
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 3: think Tims left some meat on the bone. With this

548
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 3: next team, I thought they underachieved all season right out

549
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:49,959
Speaker 3: the gates. They underachieved. He brought it all.

550
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: He's not a creative offensively, He's not like the team

551
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: got very predictable offensively.

552
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 3: I thought the major issue with this team schematically was spacing,

553
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 3: and it actually impacted both ends of the floor on offense,

554
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 3: the meant what you're mentioning in terms of creative offense,

555
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 3: like his what he did on offense in terms of

556
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 3: his creativity. The spacing for this team was extremely poor,

557
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 3: which made life very difficult, but it had a trickle

558
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,719
Speaker 3: down effect in the sense that or spacing also affects

559
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 3: your transition defense, Like if you don't have your guys

560
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 3: situated in proper spaces on the floor, then on missus

561
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 3: and turnovers, you don't have guys in position to be

562
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 3: back in transition defense. And the Pacers annihilated them in

563
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 3: transition and worse than ever in Game six like embarrassing fashion.

564
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 3: In Game six, the Siakam and everyone else was just

565
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 3: getting run out layup after runout, dunk after runout layup.

566
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 3: So like I did think there was like a defensible

567
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 3: case to move on from tips to more of a tactician.

568
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 3: I actually see Jason Kidd as a solid option in

569
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 3: the sense that he was a master of modern four

570
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 3: out spacing with Luca when he was there, which actually

571
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 3: I think is a really natural fit with Brunson, and

572
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 3: Brunson played for Kid before, so there's like some natural

573
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 3: stuff there. And then he did a good job with

574
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 3: transition defense with the MAVs despite them not being super athletics,

575
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 3: so I give him credit for that that would work.

576
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 3: The thing there is it's just unrealistic, and if I'm

577
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 3: Jason Kidd, why would like I don't actually see the

578
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 3: Knicks as that great of a job, like insane New

579
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 3: York pressure. The roster is really good, but it's not amazing.

580
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 3: It's not.

581
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: Oh, by the way, Mikhale Bridges wants a new contract.

582
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: OG's getting paid, Brunson's getting paid like the Mitchell Robinson.

583
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 2: These guys are getting paid like that.

584
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: Dallas think Lively's not getting paid, Cooper Flag won't get paid.

585
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: I don't know if Max Christy doesn't cost much. AD's

586
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: getting paid, but you get twenty four and eleven, Like, yeah,

587
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: I look at Dallas and I'm like, I get excellence

588
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: when they're healthy, and I get an incredible top end

589
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: with Lively and Flag. I know what the Knicks are

590
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: and there's a ceiling and I see it all the time.

591
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, Like I don't see it as being the

592
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 3: kind of job that Jason Kidd would be willing to

593
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 3: basically sabotage his situation and force his way there. And

594
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 3: then like the other names I saw, I didn't even

595
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 3: particularly like, like ima Udoka is a motivator, that's like

596
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 3: his primary role, and I don't think that's a specific

597
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 3: need for the Knicks. Like I think the specific thing

598
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 3: than Nick's need is just someone to come in and

599
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 3: take them to the next level in terms of their

600
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 3: offensive organization and their spacing, which will lead to them

601
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 3: having a bunch of additional benefits and transition defense. I

602
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 3: understand there's a hesitancy to call a guy like Mike Malone,

603
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 3: and the reason why is because he has a reputation

604
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 3: for being a hard ass and Tibbs was kind of

605
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 3: a hard ass, and like, I don't think they want

606
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 3: to go down that route again. But there's like hard

607
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 3: ass and then there's TIBs, Like Mike Malone leaned on

608
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 3: his starters, big minutes, but still not even close to

609
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 3: what Tibbs did. And one of the things I'll say

610
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 3: about Mike Malone, he was an excellent defense and spacing coach.

611
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 3: He made a championship defense out of non championship defensive talent,

612
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 3: and they were always consistently one of the best floor

613
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 3: spacing teams the league.

614
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 4: And they were very good.

615
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 3: And again we can we got to least acknowledge Jokic

616
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 3: was there. So Jokic makes it a lot easier, obviously,

617
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 3: but he specifically was very good at making spacing opportunities

618
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 3: out of non spacers, guys like Aaron Gordon, guys like

619
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 3: Christian Brown, guys like Bruce Brown over the years, guys

620
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 3: like uh Russell Westbrook. Even so like fitting a guy

621
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 3: like Josh Hart, Mitchell Robinson, some of these non shooting

622
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 3: types of players, even mckail Bridges, who has struggled a

623
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 3: lot as a shooter in this postseason run. Like, I

624
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 3: actually think Mike Malone is a really good fit for

625
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 3: this next team. I think he's a completely reasonable option

626
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 3: that doesn't involve you doing something insane like calling around

627
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 3: the league. Because here's what gets crazy.

628
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 2: Let's say you.

629
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 3: Call the MAVs, and they're like, okay, sure, let's talk

630
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 3: about Jason Kidd. What are you going to offer us?

631
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 3: We already acknowledged this is not a championship roster. So

632
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 3: you're gonna give up assets for a coach. You need players,

633
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 3: you need talent in there. So like it's specifically defensive

634
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 3: talent your front court. So I don't really understand what

635
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 3: the endgame is here.

636
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I am on the short list of

637
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: people that think Dallas is going to be really good,

638
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: really fair asked. I think Flag and Lively, are you know,

639
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: they're duke guys. They're gonna be quick learners. They play

640
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: at the highest level of competition Collegiately, I think One's

641
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: gonna be One's twenty one or twenty two. He's gonna

642
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: be a rim protector for the next decade. So Cooper

643
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: Flag can be out in transition, won't have to worry

644
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: about being down low and getting jammed up, which has

645
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: always been what Lebron loves. He doesn't want to be

646
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: messed up in that junk. He wants to you know,

647
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: he wants that ball out and up the court. So

648
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: and I just you know, PJ. Washington, Christy if Kyrie

649
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: comes back, I'm not sure what they're going to do

650
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: with him. A d I would forget the taxes, forget

651
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: everything else. I would not lead Dallas. I think Dallas

652
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: is a good job. The situation that's fascinating to me

653
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: is Houston because I think I think right now san

654
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: Antonio is about ready to pop. So I like san

655
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: Antonio and they could get y honest and I think, okay,

656
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: see a set, and I think Houston's going to be

657
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: in that group of three young teams a little lost

658
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: because Jalen Green am In, Thompson's excellent, Sengoon's excellent, but

659
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: there's just a lot of athleticism that's not very good

660
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: in a half court game. And I think I think

661
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: Okase has popped. San Antonio is going to pop, And

662
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: so if I'm if I'm a dooka, I would consider

663
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: the job. I think Houston's one of those that, like

664
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: the national media, we hover in, we drop in, we go. Oh,

665
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: I got Houston. I didn't like what I saw. I'll

666
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: be honest, and I think you can push him around.

667
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: I don't think they have a lot of half court

668
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: possessions that are just sort of lost. You don't get

669
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: good looks. They look a little disorganized. I but but

670
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: Jason kidd to me, the next five years in Dallas

671
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,479
Speaker 1: are going to be fascinating with just this trajectory that

672
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: goes through the roof.

673
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 3: The roster is weird because it's kind of imbalanced in

674
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 3: the sense that they just have an absurd amount of

675
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 3: front court talent, Like you don't need Revely Gafford, Anthony Davis, PJ. Washington,

676
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 3: and Cooper Flag Like that's five starting caliber players that

677
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 3: all play the four or the five. So like, I

678
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 3: do see an imbalance there, but there's an insane amount

679
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 3: of talent. And I actually go the other way there,

680
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 3: which is like they can afford to go into training

681
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 3: camp and just bring all these guys in and start

682
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 3: playing and basically look around the league and be like,

683
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 3: who's gonna throw us the Godfather offer for PJ. Washington,

684
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 3: for Daniel gafferd Ford, Anthony Davis, Like you could argue

685
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 3: that Ad is gonna be the target that someone goes after,

686
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 3: like because AD's hurt now, so he's got that classic.

687
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 3: Everyone's down on him. They think he's old, they think

688
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 3: he's beat up. AD comes out of training camp looking

689
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 3: like he's in great shape, motivated, kicks everybody's butt. For

690
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 3: a couple of months, he instantly becomes like a dude

691
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 3: you could flip for an enormous mountain of assets. So

692
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 3: I look at Dallas as a very, very healthy situation

693
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 3: moving forward. It's not the same Luka Doncics were right

694
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 3: on the doorstep of the title, but they do have

695
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 3: a lot of big picture potential.

696
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,720
Speaker 1: If you miss the hard hits of football pads, faster

697
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: play clocks, and NonStop action, this is what you need

698
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: to be watching Arena Football one on Vice TV. Football

699
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 1: at full speed. The fields tighter, the plays are faster,

700
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: the hits come quick. It's eight on eight, ironman style,

701
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,839
Speaker 1: no downtime, no let up. This Sunday, June fifteenth, the

702
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,320
Speaker 1: Southwest Kansas Storm face off against the Salina Liberty. Expect

703
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: big plays and big scoring, real competitions start to finish

704
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: Arena Football one Sunday at six thirty Eastern PM. Six

705
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 1: thirty pm Eastern go to Vice tv dot com to

706
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: find your channel.

707
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 3: We got a report from SAMs today that Kevin Durant

708
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 3: and his business partner, Brits Climate are kind of canvassing

709
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 3: the league, looking for potential opportunities. The five names that

710
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 3: were thrown out in the shams report for the Houston Rockets,

711
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 3: San Antonio Spurs, the Miami Heat, the Minnesota Timberwolves, and

712
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 3: the New York Knicks. Where did your head go when

713
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 3: you saw that report this morning?

714
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 1: Well, I think he works everywhere. I think there's very

715
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: few players that fit everywhere, and KD is one of them.

716
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 1: He doesn't necessarily need to be the soul of the team.

717
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: He doesn't need the ball constantly in his hands. You

718
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 1: get great length, a willing defender twenty four, twenty six.

719
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: I think KD fits everywhere. You know, if I was

720
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: KD i New York, I think he fits New York well.

721
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: But Brunson has the ball in his hands. I mean

722
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: in his mind, is he thinking Brunson's got some Westbrook

723
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: like dribble the air out of the ball. And I'm

724
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: sitting in the corner, like I could see him, like

725
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: I've been through that. You know, Kyrie, who he played with,

726
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: also can be a little bit like that. So I

727
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 1: could see KD just saying, you know, because he's got

728
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: the leverage here, I could see him saying, I've kind

729
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: of done the ball centric guard thing. I just don't

730
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: want it again. Pat Riley and Spolster are very convincing people.

731
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,359
Speaker 1: Miami's a great place to play, no state tax. It's

732
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 1: a winter league, a lot of warm weather, Like Miami's

733
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 1: a really attractive place out east.

734
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,399
Speaker 2: But I'm a KD fan.

735
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: I think he fits in a lot of places, and

736
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 1: Minnesota he obviously fits. And you know, we've talked about this,

737
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: like Lebron in his prime was great, but he had

738
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: to be the offensive ecosystem you had to Chris Bosh

739
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 1: had to reduce, you know, got marginalized. Kevin Love can

740
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: get marginalized. Guys get away from the rim, go you know,

741
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 1: Kyrie Irving, you can't have the ball that Kevin never

742
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 1: provides that kind of obstacle, Like he just kind of fits.

743
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: So I can tell you this if if if you

744
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: were a GM and you talk to a coach or players,

745
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: a lot of guys would raise their hands and say

746
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 1: get KD. Because I think he loves basketball. He's a

747
00:36:58,920 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: good teammates's got a good set.

748
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 2: It's a humor.

749
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 1: He doesn't need to be the media darling. I think

750
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: he's really liked and respected in the league.

751
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 3: One hundred percent agree. I you know, I love the

752
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,399
Speaker 3: point you made about his fit, Like he all five

753
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 3: of these teams the basketball makes a lot of sense.

754
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 2: There's one.

755
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 3: The one team that I was like that doesn't make

756
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 3: as much of a sense in terms of the basketball

757
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 3: fit to me was the Spurs because it's like, I

758
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 3: don't love the idea of putting a super thin front

759
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 3: court player that likes the perimeter next to another super

760
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 3: thin front court player that likes the yattern. I wasn't

761
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 3: a huge fan of that one. It also just doesn't

762
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 3: really fit San Antonio's timeline. So the Spurs one was

763
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 3: weird for me. The Heat I liked the fit. I

764
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 3: just don't know why KD would go there because it

765
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 3: just feels like another move to a team that's not

766
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 3: good enough to win the title. Like I'm just not

767
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 3: sure that, Like is Kevin Durant, Tyler Harrow, bam Adebayo,

768
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 3: is that enough to win the title? I don't. I

769
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:49,439
Speaker 3: don't think so much.

770
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: But like when I'm watching that kid, Benedict Mathern, Yeah

771
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: Mathern for Indy Tonight. I mean, I'm not trying to

772
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 1: overreact here, but when I'm watching him and I'm.

773
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,320
Speaker 2: Like Jesus, he's just a kid, Like he's.

774
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: Gonna You're gonna get this two out of three games

775
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: next year?

776
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 2: Like this is this?

777
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 1: I mean, by the way, again, I think was he

778
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 1: either third leading scorer on the team or fourth leading

779
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: scorer this year like he.

780
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 3: Coming into the uh coming into this series. He was

781
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 3: actually the highest per minute score for the Pacers in

782
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 3: this playoff run because I use in a shorter role,

783
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 3: but his like points per thirty six minutes was the

784
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 3: highest on the team.

785
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so I watch him and I think, oh,

786
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: he's going to become a full time starter and it

787
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,720
Speaker 1: will be Siakam, Hallie and Mathern are their three leading scorers.

788
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 2: So I mean, I just I'm looking.

789
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 1: At the East and I'm like, I think Indiana is

790
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: going to take a leap next year. You know, they'll

791
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: play with a finals level confidence. So I just I

792
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 1: don't think. I just I'm not just saying this because

793
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: they're up two to one.

794
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 2: I look at Indiana and I'm like, man, that is.

795
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: A team with I mean outside of I mean, sayak

796
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 1: he is what he is. I feel like seventy five

797
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: percent of Indiana, all those players will be better next year.

798
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: I mean out Sawkhams game is his game.

799
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 3: They're better than they were last year.

800
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just like all of them.

801
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: I was just so impressed with him tonight. So we

802
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 1: can start talking about with Tatum out next year. It's

803
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: gonna run through Indy. We've got to be honest about this.

804
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: It's gonna run through Indy. They are deep, they're well coached,

805
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: most of their players are ascending. The East is running

806
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: through Indy.

807
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. And I don't see the heat as

808
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 3: like an obvious like, oh, he goes there and he's

809
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,240
Speaker 3: all of a sudden the favorite in the Eastern Conference.

810
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 3: I like the Rockets fit. I think it fit. His

811
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 3: skill set is desperately needed as a guy who's a

812
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 3: shot creator shoot from the perimeter. He also brings length

813
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 3: at the rim, which is not like the Rockets are

814
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 3: a big, strong team. They're not like a long arms team.

815
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 3: Like Jabari Smith Junior is like the one guy they

816
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 3: have that offers.

817
00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 2: The Rockets need him, Jason.

818
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: I would argue the Rockets need him more than any

819
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: other team that he would play for. They need him

820
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,720
Speaker 1: their half court offense gets lost a lot.

821
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he would go in there and immediately vault

822
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,399
Speaker 3: them into top tier championship contention, so that move makes

823
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 3: some sense. I will say, by far, out of these

824
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 3: five teams, my favorite fit is the Timberwolves. It's a

825
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,760
Speaker 3: similar lack of redundancy in the sense that he brings

826
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 3: kind of like exactly what the team doesn't have, which

827
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 3: is a rock solid secondary ball handler next to Ant

828
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 3: who can really generate shots for his team. But they

829
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 3: can surround KD with elite super physical defense, which is

830
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 3: what he hasn't had in these other destinations. And also similarly,

831
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 3: Nas Red not super vertical, Julius Randall not super vertical,

832
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 3: Rudy Gobert is vertical, but like they, Kevin Durant would

833
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 3: be a guy at the four spot, different from Kat

834
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 3: last year, different from Nas who brings real vertical length

835
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 3: to the table where you can imagine Jaden McDaniels, Kevin

836
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 3: Durant and Rudy Gobert on the floor together that front

837
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 3: line and it's like all arms just everywhere, and it

838
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 3: would just be really, really difficult to handle. But it's

839
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 3: gonna be really interesting. I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful that we

840
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,879
Speaker 3: get a pretty quick like a set of action here

841
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 3: in late June where we find out where all these

842
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 3: guys land. But Colin, I sincerely appreciate you taking the

843
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 3: time to join us tonight. It was good to see

844
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 3: you Colin. It was great to see you man, great.

845
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 2: To see you buddy the volume. Thanks so much for listening.

846
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 1: If you've enjoyed the podcast, take a moment rate and

847
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:29,280
Speaker 1: review