WEBVTT - Wealth Secrets Billionaires Don’t Want You to Know! | Peter Dunworth 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.360 What are the big problems that they're facing when it 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:03.360 comes to building wealth. 0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:05.880 A lot of people think that guiding wealth is you know, 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:09.120 the hot pot and kp Itzazy. Personally, from my experience, 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:10.280 it's the complaint. 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:12.280 Opposite when it comes to building wealth. I like to 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:14.880 call it the game of money, and you might imagine 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:16.480 that people that have been playing a game a lot 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:18.880 longer than you probably have some tips and tricks and 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:21.800 strategies that they could use to probably beat you pretty quickly. 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:24.160 So in the game of building wealth, you might imagine 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:27.320 that the wealthy, the billionaires have access to tips and 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.600 tools and strategies that you don't know about. But there's 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:32.159 ways we can change that. So today I'm going to 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:35.320 sit down with Peter Dunworth. He's the founder of the 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.520 Bitcoin Advisor, So he works with high net worth individuals 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:43.360 family offices to help them build generational wealth and incorporate 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:45.159 bitcoin into that strategy. So, if you want to know 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:48.239 the tips, tricks and strategies the high net worth individuals 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:50.000 are using so you can win the game of money 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.920 as well, pay attention in regards to preserving that wealth 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:58.080 and then thinking about that wealth generationally. Who outright think 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:01.080 it's bad to leave wealth for your kids. 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:03.600 Now I completely disagree with Okay, you know, I look 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:07.040 at my responsibility to my family, to my legacy. Sadly, 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:09.520 there's no real out of the benchmarking society that we 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:13.720 have that's universally accepted other than how wealth are you out? 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:16.360 It's a school board that everyone understands what the school 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:18.880 board is. There's no intangible around it. It's a number 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:21.600 that you can look at. It's the only objective measure 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:23.240 we have of success. 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:26.479 Peter, thanks for joining me today. 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:28.360 Pleasure to be here with you. Matt, thanks for having me. 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:29.839 Yeah, what a great opportunity. 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:32.720 Just happened to be in my neighborhood and so swinging 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:36.360 by for an interview. So I'm excited about that. You know, 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:38.479 there's a lot of overlap on what we do talking 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:40.720 about wealth just overall, which is a pretty big topic. 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:43.840 So I want to dig into problems that high net 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:48.320 worth families individuals have, specifically around keeping wealth. 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:49.960 There's a lot of attacks on keeping wealth. 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:53.200 It's very hard to keep it. It drains away from us. 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:54.840 Governments are trying to take it from us. So how 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:58.360 do we keep it? We talked briefly about some potential taxes. 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:01.960 I want to get into that how bigcoin can help 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:05.960 fix all of this, keep build wealth, keep from losing wealth, 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:09.560 build into the future. I want to think, since you're 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:13.679 international from Australia, sort of what Trump's announcement means to 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:15.840 the rest of the world. And then I want to 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:18.960 go through some different strategies that high net worth individuals have. 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:21.360 So hopefully we have time for all that. So let's 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:23.560 just frame it up here really quickly. So you work 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:26.960 with high net worth individuals family offices. Family offices offices 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:30.640 typically would be you can define it for me, but 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:34.520 define what family offices are and define with me for us, 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:37.240 what are the big problems that they're facing when it 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:38.280 comes to building wealth. 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.840 Great question. Family offices in my definition of families who 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:46.600 have generated substantial little significant amounts of wealth that want 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:48.480 to be managing those assets themselves. 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:50.840 So what would that number be, Like, what's that threshold? 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:53.280 It can start at twenty five I would have thought, 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:56.440 and twenty five millions to billions of dollars twenty five 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:58.520 million or more. I think that's a starting point that 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.040 you know, you can start looking at that. Under that 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:03.720 you're probably working with a multi family office where you're 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:07.240 leveraging off a number of other families to generate investment 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.840 ideas and returns and then leverage that in two further ideas. 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:13.520 And from my experience, a lot of the families that 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:16.200 we work with, the number one issue that they've got 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:19.280 is keeping their wealth. The families that we work with 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:23.480 are not interested on a return on capital. They're interested 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:27.280 in a return of capital, meaning they're not focused on 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:30.760 the percentage gains that they're making. They've made the pile, 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:32.640 they've made their wealth. They want to make sure that 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.360 it's secure. So the first thing they look at when 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:38.280 it comes to any investment, whether it's real estate, whether 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:41.960 it's stocks, properties, bonds, or even bitcoin, is they want 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.800 to make sure that the ownership the custody is locked 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:47.720 down and they can't be subject to a number of 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:53.200 different attacks on that absolute base layer. So ensuring that 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.320 you own what you think you own is probably the 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:58.640 first port of call that you need to look at, 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:01.840 and probably so something preliminary to that is what are 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:05.240 the structures from a legal perspective that you have access 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:08.000 to to maximize the outcomes that you want to get 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:11.240 from the investments that you're putting that money into So 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:13.720 I think it starts with the structures. 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:15.200 Then got it. 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:17.280 So that's an interesting way to think about it. And 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:21.120 you know, I've often said, and this is unfortunately from 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:23.480 a personal experience, that keeping money is a lot harder 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:26.400 than making it, which sounds crazy for most people who 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:29.479 haven't made money. But once you've made it, as I 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:32.200 found out the hard way of losing it all, keeping 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:34.360 it is much harder. So and then the more you 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:37.039 have of it probably the bigger problem or challenge that 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:38.120 becomes agreed. 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:40.480 And this is where a lot of people think, oh, 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:43.279 it's so easy being wealthy, and to a certain extent, 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:45.480 there are a lot of problems that go away when 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:48.880 you're wealthy. But with great wealth comes great responsibility, and 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:51.839 there's a responsibility that's put on you to not only 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:54.680 maintain it, but to preserve it. And then the questions 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:57.120 around legacy start entering your mind, around how do I 0:04:57.160 --> 0:04:59.240 preserve this for the people I love into the future. 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:01.800 So a lot of people think that gaining wealth is, 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:05.240 you know, the hard part, and keeping it's easy. Personally, 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:08.080 from my experience, it's the complete opposite. It's it's the 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:09.320 keeping it that's the tough part. 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:12.279 I want to get into the generational wealth. That's something 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:13.920 I think about a lot. That's kind of the stage 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:17.040 that I'm in right now, so I want to come 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:17.320 to that. 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:18.279 But before we get. 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:20.440 Into that, let's just talk through some of the major 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:25.680 asset classes that people can invest into. You mentioned real estate, bonds, bitcoin, 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:29.440 things like that, and Michael Saylor sort of laid out 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:30.960 sort of some of the flaws in each one and 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:33.600 how they cost you money. But one of the biggest 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:37.080 problems is also taxes. So you were mentioning before we 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:40.240 started recording that in Australia they wanted to launch I 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:44.920 believe a tax on unrealized wealth at three percent I'm sorry, 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:46.880 at three million correct. 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.360 In our pension system. There's legislation going through on the 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:53.080 first of July that if nothing changes then that legislation 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:55.120 will go through first of July and they go into 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:58.279 tax at a right of thirty percent unrealized capital guiins 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:01.880 tax on pension balance over three million dollars. So if 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:04.720 you have a ten x return in bitcoin and you're 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:07.160 all in bitcoin with a three million dollar fund, you're 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:09.360 going to make twenty seven million dollars in a year. 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:11.359 They're going to send you a bill for eight point 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:14.800 one million dollars of unrealized tax gains. And now in 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:16.359 order to pay that bill, you're going to have to 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:19.160 sell down some bitcoin, and you're going to incur a 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:22.479 further eight hundred thousand realized capital gains tax to pay 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:24.520 the bill. You pay nine million dollars on that gain, 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.640 even though and it's an oxymoron to say an unrealized 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:30.760 capital gain, because the very definition of capital gains means 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:33.880 that you've disposed of an asset. So they've just redefined 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:36.560 the English language to suit an agenda that they want 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:39.800 to take your assets before you've you've gone full circle 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:40.520 on the investment. 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:41.200 Now. 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:42.480 The reason why I want to dig into this and 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:44.640 talk about it a little bit is because I think 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:46.920 both of you and I probably agree that whatever is 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:49.520 probably happening in the G seven, if you want to 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:53.039 call it the West Canada, Australia is probably a test 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:54.520 bed for what may be coming for the rest of 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:56.760 the world. So if it's happening in Australia, it's probably 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:58.800 coming into Canada, it's probably come into Europe, and it's 0:06:58.839 --> 0:06:59.880 probably going to be come into the. 0:06:59.920 --> 0:07:02.599 U at some level. So if we talk about this. 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:05.479 Now, you said it's in people's pension accounts, correct, So 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:08.200 if I hold it in a personal account, if I 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.440 own the stocks or whatever assets personally, that's not subject 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:11.720 to that. 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:15.800 Correct. So you can hold it in trust, company or 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:18.560 personal and it won't be subject to an unrealized capital 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.440 gains tax. I think for the moment, the way it 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:24.840 was proposed, it was ill thought out legislation that was proposed. 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:27.200 No one really picked it up, no one really cared 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:29.680 about it. The feedback I've had from the industry is 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.760 that no one really cares about rich people getting tax more. 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:35.920 But what they don't understand is the downstream consequences of that. 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:39.240 And anyone who's holding bitcoin in that pension system will 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:42.040 very quickly reach that three million dollar threshold and then 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:44.400 we'll all be subject to the tag. So it's a 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:47.560 slow creep that has no indexation as well. So you're 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:51.080 going to be suffering that regardless. And if we think 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:55.320 probably long lines similarly, from a hyperinflationary type event, or 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:57.920 at least an inflationary event, three million is not a 0:07:57.960 --> 0:07:59.600 lot of money. Yeah, we're going to be there in 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:01.280 the next dickide. 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:01.760 Yeah. 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:03.720 I mean the crazy thing with that to your point, 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:05.080 it's not a lot of money, and because of the 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:07.080 inflation when you think about I mean, here we are 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:09.640 in this beach town in southern California, and I know 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:14.000 my neighbor across the street from me house is probably 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:17.600 worth I'm guessing four million, four and a half million dollars, 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:20.400 and he bought the house for three hundred and thirty 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:24.600 thousand dollars I believe in like around the early nineties, 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:28.760 so that's twenty five years ago. So they bought the 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:31.200 house for four hundred grand twenty years ago, and now 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:33.640 it's worth four and a half million. So basically, through 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:36.640 the money printing, through the inflation, they've artificially pushed the 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:39.760 asset price up and then they do want to take money, 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:41.400 so you're actually worse off. 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:45.720 Right, This is the problem that that creditory event, which 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:49.200 is sort of pushes inflation, makes everyone feel like they're 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:51.640 wealthy and they're richer than they are. But the problem 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.439 is Yo Naiba, if he wants to monitize that in 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:57.040 any white hypo form other than debt, needs to sell 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:00.760 that asset. Pibwaeva taxes are revivable on it. Whatever's left, 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.560 he still has to find a home yeah, and guess what, 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:06.240 everything else has gone up around him, so he'll probably 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:09.640 be buying an inferior asset. And this is where to me, 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:14.840 bitcoin plays a huge part, particularly for those real estate investors, 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:18.840 of diversifying a portfolio and adding in an asset that 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:22.040 they can understand or easily understand that is very similar 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:25.160 and acts very similarly to real estate. But to me, 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:28.520 it has a significant upside over and above what real 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:30.920 estate does, even with the leverage that you can get there. 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:34.000 Yeah, before we get into that though, we're just kind 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:37.480 of sticking on this for a minute. I mean, why 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:39.600 would anybody keep money in a pension account. If that's 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:41.959 the case, would everybody just close their pension accounts out 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:43.160 and move them into other assets. 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:45.800 Well, the problem is this is captive for anyone under 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:47.199 sixty two or sixty. 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:47.640 Five years of age. 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:49.600 They're allowed to sell, they're not allowed to sell, well, 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:51.439 they're allowed to sell their assets, but they're not allowed 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.199 to take the assets out of the pension system until 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:57.760 they reach what's called preservation age, which is around between 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:01.280 sixty and sixty five. Time we get there, they'll push 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:04.199 that to sixty five to seventy and it's kind of 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.320 a hotel California for capital that can go in, but 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:09.679 unless you're retired, you can't take that money out. 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:13.560 Now, is this only for government workers the captured pension 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:15.319 system or is it like private businesses? 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:17.800 Also peed into that this is for everyone in Australia. 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:24.600 But just the absolute duplicitous event that happens on this 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.800 is that most government pensions are not subject to this 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:30.760 tax because they have something different different called a defined 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:34.360 benefits scheme. So fortunately for the politicians who are making 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:37.480 decisions for the rest of us, their superannuation scheme or 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:40.520 pension scheme is not affected, so they will not suffer 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:42.440 the tax consequences that everyone else will. 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:43.600 Sure, it's what it always is. 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.760 Recently, I saw Larry Fink from Blackrock was over I 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:50.040 believe in India, and he was talking about how Blackrock 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:52.760 wants to help these other countries build up capital markets. 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:54.760 So the US sort of has it unfair advantage because 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:56.760 we have these capital markets that attracts all his capital. 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:59.040 But he wants these other countries like India that are 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:01.560 rapidly growing to us of capital markets and maybe try 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:03.720 to kind of bring them up. And he talked about 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.679 the problem that India has because most people down their 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:09.560 own gold, so they keep it as jewelry and they 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:13.160 keep their wealth in that gold. And he talked about 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.839 in a roundabout way where basically India should sort of 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:20.400 make that illegal because they need all that wealth in 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:22.680 the system, right, So that's kind of the point that 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:25.079 you're making. They want that money in the pension and 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.280 then they want to probably continue to raise that pension 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:29.240 age because they need that money to stay in there. 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:31.360 And that's exactly what Fink was saying. He's like, no, no, 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:34.040 we need all that gold to go into the system 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:36.240 so we can have it. And he even did talk 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:40.840 about the age at which you could withdraw it, but 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:43.840 even more specifically what he talked about was the way, 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:47.440 meaning the schedule, the time, how much you could withdraw 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:52.679 at a certain time, because again, they want the money, 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:56.600 and you know, with governments going broke, I mean, they're 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:57.600 just going to be coming for everything. 0:11:57.600 --> 0:11:58.800 We just have to sort of expect that. 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:01.040 And sadly, this is why I bring it up, and 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:04.160 it's a cautionary tale because Australia is a test net 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:06.320 for the rest of the world when it comes to this. 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:10.000 If there's very little pushback in Australia, then other governments 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:11.760 will look at that and think, well, the Australians did 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.320 knock up about it, why don't we test it, And 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:17.319 so it will just proliferate amongst those G seven countries 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:18.320 that you talk of. 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:20.720 You know, I just went to Australia for the first time. 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:23.319 I was down there just a couple months ago, and 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.360 I grew up, you know whatever, watching Crocodile than the 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:29.040 and you know Stever, when I just had this vision 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:33.080 of these these Australians being these rugged and burly kind 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:35.520 of kind of people, like that's not a knife, this 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:38.160 is a knife, right, or the Foster's like this is 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:39.199 a beer or whatever it. 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:39.600 Is, right. 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:43.839 But yeah, sure seems like the Australians are pushovers these days. 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:45.480 Sadly, I hate to say that, right. 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:47.559 It all started when he gave up your guns. 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:51.960 Yep, and I think there was it was an opportunity 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:54.080 time for the government to have that gun buy back 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:57.880 and seizure of the guns, and Australia hasn't really pushed 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:01.440 back on that whatsoever. Gun liscense is very different to 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:03.360 what it is in the US. The US it is 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:05.920 a right. In Australia it's a privilege that the government 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:09.240 bestows on you if you meet the certain hurdles. You 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:13.199 need to go through all sorts of licensing and training 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:15.680 in order to get that. There are some exemptions for 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.960 farmers and the like who need that for maintenance of property. 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:23.080 But it's been a it's a very different culture in 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:28.160 Australia to America, and I think there has been a 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:32.560 whittling away of that oka Australian who pushes back on 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:34.520 authority to say, hey, we don't want to deal with that, 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:39.600 leave us alone, and probably highlighted by the reaction the 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:42.640 behavior around the vaccine mandates and lockdowns that we went through, 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.679 which I think we're probably globally the most raconian out 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.520 of anywhere. And I live in New South Wales or Sydney, 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:52.200 south of US as Victoria which had arguably the world's 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:54.720 long well it did have the world's longest lockdown, and 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:57.120 so I had a lot of friends down there who know, 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:00.520 just walking in the street, they were stopped the police 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.040 decide what are you doing? Where are you going? You're 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:04.640 not allowed to be out and you've got to go home. 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:07.760 It's like I'm walking the adult like. There was some 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:11.520 I think some serious concerns rised, and I think we're 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:14.040 very quick to memory haul that and not not for 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:16.760 attention to it, Forget it never happened, and move on 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:17.959 until the next one. 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:22.000 Run sidetracked into this little conversation. But just for a minute, 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:24.120 we'll get back to the generational wealth question I want 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:27.120 to get to. But what's going on in Venezuela right now? 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:30.680 I mean, is a perfect example of where things eventually 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:34.520 devolve too, right, and so in Venezuela, Now, did Maduro 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:36.880 win the election? Is was there some sort of a 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.280 coup that's going on? Like what's going on down there? 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:42.360 But more importantly, without getting into the facts, because we 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:44.840 don't know the facts, but we do know that's facts. 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:45.440 Is like you have the. 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:49.360 Military opening fire on innocent civilians. We do know that 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:51.560 that's a fact. Now we don't know the circumstances behind that. 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:53.920 And I saw I think I retweeted. I think it 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:58.000 was Spike Cohen said that socialism is one of the 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:00.360 things that you can vote your way into, but you 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:01.760 got to shoot your way out. 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.640 Of strying's done. How many guns left? That's a problem 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:08.080 for ye try Yeah, in America, not so much. 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.440 Yeah, although Kamala Harris is already talking about trying to 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:14.280 change that as soon as you can, so we'll see. 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:14.480 How that goes. 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:16.520 Anyway, let's get back to the top of a hand here. 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:20.560 So high net worth individuals they think more about preserving 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:23.600 wealth than acquiring because they've already made it, so how 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:26.240 do we keep it? They think about what types of 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:28.880 assets they could buy that they could keep that, taxes 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:33.480 being one thing that they have to navigate, but in 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.680 regards to preserving that wealth, and then thinking about that 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:39.040 wealth generationally. And as I said, this is something I've 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:40.920 been thinking a lot about because at the stage I'm 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:43.120 at with my kids, I just went through setting up 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:47.000 trust structures. We went new trust structures and building like 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:50.600 family constitutions so that there's like a set of rules 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:52.800 like a US Constitution around that wealth as it goes 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:54.880 down generationally. So that's sort of where my head's been. 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:58.400 And I've been sort of battling some people on Twitter 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:02.040 because there's this whole seemingly movement or maybe it's just 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.119 caught my attention of people. A lot of prominent bitcoinners, 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:09.800 even who outright think it's bad to leave wealth for 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:10.400 your kids. 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:14.600 They're entitled to their own opinions. 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:16.400 What do you think about it? 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:18.640 I have, and I completely disagree with it. You know, 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:21.880 I look at my responsibility to my family, to my legacy, 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:27.680 not only to my children, but to know my lineage. 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.160 I need to honor their lineage and the sacrifices that 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:32.640 they've made to be as successful as I can be, 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.600 and then to ensure that not only AREM a success, 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:39.360 but my children are success. And sadly, there's no real 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:43.200 other benchmark in society that we have that's universally accepted 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:46.040 other than how wealthy you are. It's a school board 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:48.840 that everyone understands what the school board is. There's no 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:51.280 intangible around it. It's a number that you can look at. 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:54.440 It's the only objective measure we have of success. 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:54.840 Now. 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.200 It's not the only way to define success, but it's 0:16:57.680 --> 0:16:59.520 the universally accepted way of that. 0:16:59.640 --> 0:16:59.880 Now. 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.160 I look at that and think, why would you want 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:05.199 to rob your children of the ability to leverage that 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:07.639 and further the legacy of everyone who's come before you, 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:10.359 And you think about all of the sacrifices that you 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:14.679 make as a bitcoiner. I personally look at my children, 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:16.199 I think I want them to go on and be 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:19.560 productive parts of society. And I think if they've got capital, 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:22.720 and I think it will be an indictment on myself 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:25.120 and my skills as a parent if they don't make 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:27.879 a contribution to society. I want them to go on 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.320 and do great things. And having access and access to 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:35.800 resources enables them to further the family legacy into the 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.959 future and become meaningful contributors to society. 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:40.960 I think of it. 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:43.000 I think there's two different ways. I think, you know, 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:45.160 because we went into you know, from an equity based 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:47.879 system to a debt based monetary system sort of officially 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.520 in nineteen seventy one, severing the tays to God. In 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:54.160 a debt based minetary system, we're basically stealing value from 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:57.360 the future, yes, And so we're literally stealing value from 0:17:57.359 --> 0:17:59.480 our you know, for our kids and grandkids, et cetera. 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:02.400 I just think that's like the direction of the world. 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:06.199 But as a bitcoiner, I think about flipping that and like, 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:08.399 our money should buy us more goods and services in 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:10.520 the future, and we should be building value into the future, 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:12.760 not stealing from it. And I've been sort of using 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:14.919 this analogy and this way to look at it as 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:18.119 like a blockchain where it's like, my life is proof 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:21.200 of work, and I'm building a block and I want 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.639 my kids to be able to attach their block onto 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:25.920 my block, and my grandkids to attach the block onto 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:28.400 a block, and to continue to build this like blockchain 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:30.840 of life, and like why wouldn't we push value into 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:33.520 the future as opposed to stealing it from the future. 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:36.240 Now I could see how people would say it's bad 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:39.639 for kids. I suppose if you raise bad kids. But 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:43.800 that's more of you, not a symptom of the money, right, I. 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:48.720 Agree, And this is where money. You know, people say 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:51.080 money changes you. I don't think it does. 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:51.760 It just. 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:57.359 Exemplifies and expands on what your true nature is. If 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:00.280 you're a bad person, if you've got resources, you're going 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:02.680 to do really bad things. If you're a good person 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:06.159 and want to make contributions and build out and help society, 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:08.840 having more resources allows you to do that. I think 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:12.280 it's an internal struggle that's projected on to other people. 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.760 It's always an internal struggle. And this is where for me, 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:19.560 you want to provide optionality, whether it's to your children, 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:22.879 to your clients, to anyone around you. Providing options and 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:26.320 then giving others the choice to make I want to 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:28.240 be in a position that they've got all the resources 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:30.800 that they could ever possibly want, and then if they 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:33.360 decide that they want to make a contribution, their best 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:36.400 way to contribute to societies to make donations and give 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:39.159 the money away, then so be it. And to me, 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.400 and I was just talking about this with a group 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:45.320 of tax attorneys across the country yesterday, that to me, 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:49.920 bitcoin represents the best generational asset to pass on because 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.720 not only is it going to be the lastest longing, sorry, 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:56.200 the longest lasting, it's going to be the best performing. 0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:58.720 But there's a very curious thing that you can do 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:00.639 with bitcoin that you can do with no other asset, 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:03.639 and that is to your point about being able to 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:07.399 put assets into the future. You can timelock assets for 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:11.879 different generations, and so you can timelock bitcoin for different generations. 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:14.160 And that's something I spend a lot of time thinking about. 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:15.560 That. You might not. 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:20.600 Want your children to benefit from your bitcoin or all 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:23.480 of your bitcoin, and you want to leave bitcoin in 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:26.879 for further generations, out for your grandchildren or great grandchildren, 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:29.159 great great great great grandchildren. All of a sudden, you 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:32.040 can timelock a portion of this asset today that's going 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:34.679 to continually grow into the future. That can only be 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:37.119 accessed to a future point in time, which is to 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:39.119 your point about the debt robbing from the future to 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:44.399 take now, that is the complete inverse to that. And 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:48.199 this is where I think Dave Bailey came up with 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:51.200 an innovative solution to pay off the US national debt 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:54.600 by buying a trillion dollars worth of bitcoin, timelocking it 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:57.080 for thirty or fifty years, and then have that as 0:20:57.119 --> 0:20:59.400 a way to pay off what's currently currently here. 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:01.879 Now, imagine the dump on the market in twenty or 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:05.399 fifty years what that would look like though, So you 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:07.680 just made a couple of big claims. So you said 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:11.280 that big onin is the longest lasting, it's the best performing, 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:12.760 and then the ability to time lock it. 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:13.520 Let's just go through that. 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:17.000 So you said it's the longest lasting. So you talk 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:20.800 about high neworth individuals thinking about saving their money in 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:23.840 bonds or real estate or businesses or whatever. You said, 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:26.439 bitcoin is the longest lasting. Break that down for us. 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:29.800 It's ironic given it's only fifteen years old, right, and 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:34.320 that comes from years of studying this and you're probably 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:36.040 of the same mind that you know, the more time 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:38.760 you spend looking at an asset or an investment, the 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:41.439 worse it gets. You find holes in it. Oh, this 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:43.919 could go wrong, that could go wrong. What have you. 0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:47.520 I've spent close to twenty thousand hours now staring at 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:49.960 bitcoin trying to poke holes in it, understand what I 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:53.600 don't understand, and I'm still an amateur even after that time. 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:56.040 But from what I can see, I can't find any 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:58.000 holes with it. It gets better every time I look 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:00.639 at it. And this is where it's going to be 0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:04.199 the longest lasting asset that we've got on many different layers. Firstly, 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:07.080 I think it'll outlast just about everything else in the world, 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:10.440 whether it's stocks, bonds, properties, governments, society as a whole. 0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:14.560 That is the substrate of our structure moving forward. It's 0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:17.280 just that that information isn't evenly distributed, so not too 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:20.360 many people understand that. If they did, we'd have bitcoin 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:24.960 in the millions or billions of dollars per value. When 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:28.240 I talk about bitcoin being the longest lasting, all you 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:31.119 have to do is buy it and hold it, and 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:34.600 if you self custody it, that can last essentially for 0:22:35.400 --> 0:22:38.360 ten hundred thousand years into the future, however long society 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:42.159 is going to last. However, I'm very doubtful that you 0:22:42.200 --> 0:22:47.200 can achieve that same outcome with property or bonds or shares. 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:50.520 You look at the average length of a company across 0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:54.880 our countries, and if you include startups, the average length 0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:57.520 of the company would be about five years. No, most 0:22:57.560 --> 0:23:00.200 businesses fail within five years. Now, if you're fortunate enough 0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:01.920 to own a big company like one of the big 0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:04.480 banks or insurance companies, they may be going now for 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:06.920 one hundred hundred and fifty years, but they are you know, 0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:09.840 the pointy point zero zero one of a percent of 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:12.959 companies that have ever been established. So do I have 0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:14.960 the skills to figure out what companies are going to 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:16.879 be around at that point in time in the future. 0:23:18.240 --> 0:23:20.919 Absolutely not. And this is where the whole idea of 0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:24.040 index investing, which I disagree with, but it's been a 0:23:24.160 --> 0:23:28.280 very palatable format for people to invest in. This is 0:23:28.280 --> 0:23:32.320 why people invest in passive index funds because they don't 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:34.160 have to pick the winners. They just have to pick 0:23:34.240 --> 0:23:36.720 the exposure to whatever the market is going to be 0:23:36.760 --> 0:23:39.280 at that point in time. Now, that's a great way 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:41.800 for preserving wealth, but you're not going to outperform anything, 0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:44.920 You're just going to keep it stagnant, and over time 0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:49.160 your wealth is going to deteriorate relative to the winners 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:51.800 who pick the best assets. So I look at that 0:23:51.840 --> 0:23:54.960 and think that's not going to make your wealth last long. 0:23:55.400 --> 0:23:58.480 And this is where to me, bitcoin is a complete 0:23:58.520 --> 0:24:03.800 anomaly because I believe bitcoin is our first risk free asset. 0:24:04.240 --> 0:24:06.880 It's not our volatility free asset. And there's a key 0:24:06.920 --> 0:24:10.959 distinction between that. But if you're thinking in generational terms, 0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:14.160 you can buy bitcoin and know that, Okay, you can 0:24:14.200 --> 0:24:16.480 deal with a bad two or three years because you 0:24:16.520 --> 0:24:19.800 know we're planning for thirty fifty eighty, one hundred, two 0:24:19.880 --> 0:24:22.399 hundred years. In fact, we've got one client who's planning 0:24:22.440 --> 0:24:25.840 for trying to have a two hundred year plan for 0:24:26.000 --> 0:24:29.480 his legacy, and it revolves around his business and bitcoin 0:24:29.600 --> 0:24:32.520 backing it and funding his vision for the future. Now, 0:24:32.720 --> 0:24:36.800 no other asset would I have confidence in to fund 0:24:36.800 --> 0:24:40.520 a two hundred year plan With bitcoin, I certainly believe it. 0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:43.479 Let's dig into that a little bit. 0:24:43.560 --> 0:24:47.119 So it's the longest lasting Like obviously a house is 0:24:47.160 --> 0:24:48.800 probably not going to last that long. I mean, there 0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:50.840 are some that are a few several hundre years old, 0:24:50.840 --> 0:24:52.800 that they have to be rebuilt and whatnot rate. So 0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:56.639 obviously a car, you know, businesses most likely are not 0:24:56.760 --> 0:24:57.120 that long. 0:24:57.160 --> 0:24:57.760 So I get that. 0:24:57.840 --> 0:25:01.600 However, does that assume and that means that it's an 0:25:01.640 --> 0:25:03.600 asset that you could just buy it and never touch 0:25:03.640 --> 0:25:06.520 it again for twnity years Because I could just sell 0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:10.119 one property for another, I could rehab the property, I 0:25:10.160 --> 0:25:14.560 could sell this business buy a different business, So I 0:25:14.600 --> 0:25:17.800 could manage that well through real estate and businesses. But 0:25:17.840 --> 0:25:19.440 bitcoin is more like a hands. 0:25:19.160 --> 0:25:20.879 Off approach completely. 0:25:21.280 --> 0:25:22.880 And what I mean is that a big deal? 0:25:23.440 --> 0:25:26.160 No? I think it's a huge deal because every time 0:25:26.200 --> 0:25:30.080 you transact, you're subjecting yourself to a number of different things. Firstly, 0:25:30.119 --> 0:25:33.000 your personal judgment to outperform the market, that you're going 0:25:33.040 --> 0:25:36.720 to improve the capital allocation. Secondly, and a big one 0:25:36.760 --> 0:25:39.760 is typically there's a tax consequence for every transaction that 0:25:39.800 --> 0:25:42.919 you make, and if you're making multiple transactions in that 0:25:42.920 --> 0:25:46.280 two hundred year period, you're going to be taxed multiple times. 0:25:46.720 --> 0:25:51.080 So if you look at say, typical tax regime in 0:25:51.160 --> 0:25:54.199 the US on capital gains would be circa thirty percent. 0:25:54.840 --> 0:25:57.960 Now if you do that four times in one hundred years. 0:25:58.000 --> 0:26:01.080 That's only one transaction every fifty years, you're going to 0:26:01.119 --> 0:26:03.120 end up with less than forty percent of the original 0:26:03.160 --> 0:26:04.000 capital that you had. 0:26:06.440 --> 0:26:09.560 That's well, I mean, assuming the capital doesn't grow, yes, 0:26:09.720 --> 0:26:10.520 but let's look. 0:26:10.400 --> 0:26:13.240 At it in bitcoin terms. If you bought and solid 0:26:13.280 --> 0:26:16.879 bitcoin four times and incurred that thirty percent fight four times, 0:26:17.400 --> 0:26:20.480 you'd have less than forty percent of the original bitcoin 0:26:20.480 --> 0:26:21.320 that you started with. 0:26:21.720 --> 0:26:24.000 You can think of that tax almost as volatility, right, 0:26:24.080 --> 0:26:27.480 So when when an asset draws down by thirty percent, 0:26:27.600 --> 0:26:29.560 it has to make a sixty percent just to get 0:26:29.560 --> 0:26:32.240 back to even So if you make that transaction, thirty 0:26:32.240 --> 0:26:35.600 percent goes to taxes, Now that next transaction has to 0:26:35.720 --> 0:26:37.640 go up by at least sixty percent just to get 0:26:37.680 --> 0:26:40.000 you back to where you were. Right. So that's sort 0:26:40.040 --> 0:26:42.120 of how that that volatility, if you want to call 0:26:42.160 --> 0:26:45.760 it that of the tax taxation will really draw down 0:26:45.800 --> 0:26:48.840 on your long term gains correct plus to your point, 0:26:48.960 --> 0:26:50.520 I did like that, I mean, then that draws on 0:26:50.520 --> 0:26:52.359 your own judgment. And so when you're thinking about two 0:26:52.400 --> 0:26:55.240 hundred years now, you're depending on the judgment of all 0:26:55.320 --> 0:26:57.639 those errors down the line that they're going to make 0:26:57.640 --> 0:27:02.359 good judgment, which is probably probably pretty hard to view. Okay, 0:27:02.440 --> 0:27:05.040 so that's the longest lasting meaning. I can set it 0:27:05.040 --> 0:27:08.040 and forget it. I'm not subject to all the different transactions, 0:27:07.400 --> 0:27:11.480 the subjection of people's interpretation of markets at that time 0:27:11.520 --> 0:27:15.560 and whatever. Then you said it's the best performing asset. 0:27:15.640 --> 0:27:18.560 Now we certainly know factually it has been the best 0:27:18.560 --> 0:27:21.320 performing asset in the world. Some people still think it's 0:27:21.320 --> 0:27:24.600 a magic Internet money. You said that pretty matter of factly. 0:27:24.680 --> 0:27:26.280 So why do you think it's going to be continue 0:27:26.320 --> 0:27:28.880 to be the best performing asset in the world. 0:27:29.400 --> 0:27:32.879 On the most basic of premises, I believe in humanity, 0:27:33.119 --> 0:27:36.040 and I think we will evolve, not to evolve. If 0:27:36.080 --> 0:27:37.600 you believe that we are going to improve and our 0:27:37.640 --> 0:27:40.760 lives are going to get better, then Bitcoin is going 0:27:40.760 --> 0:27:43.680 to fundamentally accrue more value and grow into the future. 0:27:44.119 --> 0:27:47.760 If I look at all of the avenues of capital 0:27:48.160 --> 0:27:51.159 and the places of capital where they are stored, and 0:27:51.200 --> 0:27:54.480 how they move, how they are used, Bitcoin is an 0:27:54.520 --> 0:27:58.560 insignificant market in relative terms to the bond market, stock market, 0:27:58.560 --> 0:28:02.959 property market. Look at with a deep understanding across all 0:28:03.000 --> 0:28:05.920 of those asset classes and how that compares to bitcoin, 0:28:06.480 --> 0:28:09.000 and it will be a one way valve, there'll be 0:28:09.080 --> 0:28:13.119 a drain of capital from each of those large assets 0:28:13.400 --> 0:28:16.119 into bitcoin. And so what does that do at a 0:28:16.160 --> 0:28:18.800 time when Bitcoin is becoming more and more scarce, so 0:28:18.840 --> 0:28:22.480 there's less and less coins on exchange. Bitcoin will as 0:28:22.520 --> 0:28:25.159 the market cap grows, we'll be able to access bigger 0:28:25.200 --> 0:28:28.600 and bigger capital pools. So you have larger capital pools 0:28:28.880 --> 0:28:30.840 trying to find less bitcoin. And I look at this 0:28:30.920 --> 0:28:35.719 and think, this capital appreciation in bitcoin hasn't yet started. 0:28:35.760 --> 0:28:37.679 A lot of people think, oh, well, it's been the 0:28:37.720 --> 0:28:40.040 best over the last fifteen years, it can't go any further, 0:28:40.320 --> 0:28:43.880 but they fail to understand that there's a host of 0:28:43.880 --> 0:28:48.560 reasons why this little asset cooled bitcoin that is inconsequential 0:28:48.600 --> 0:28:52.240 in global terms, can take on an infinite infinite amount 0:28:52.280 --> 0:28:55.040 of capital. And to me, I look at the future 0:28:55.040 --> 0:28:56.680 and think, there's no other asset that I want to 0:28:56.680 --> 0:28:59.480 be holding other than bitcoin. If you want to capture 0:28:59.520 --> 0:29:02.560 that upside and bring this full circle to one of 0:29:02.600 --> 0:29:06.120 the points you made earlier, this is really one of 0:29:06.160 --> 0:29:11.320 the It's a real dichotomy because you have what people 0:29:11.320 --> 0:29:14.040 think is a volatile asset, which is actually a risk 0:29:14.040 --> 0:29:16.840 free asset when you understand it and it's the best 0:29:16.840 --> 0:29:19.120 performing asset that you want to put in a portfolio 0:29:19.240 --> 0:29:21.480 that is going to preserve your wealth. So a lot 0:29:21.480 --> 0:29:25.360 of those things just do not marry up to what 0:29:25.400 --> 0:29:28.240 you would think is a sensible investment decision. And this 0:29:28.360 --> 0:29:31.080 is where when people look at it without studying, I 0:29:31.120 --> 0:29:34.360 think they suffer cognitive dissonance because a lot of those 0:29:34.400 --> 0:29:37.080 things can't be true at the same time, and bitcoin 0:29:37.200 --> 0:29:38.760 is the first time that those things are true. 0:29:38.920 --> 0:29:40.480 I want to take a second, just real quick, to 0:29:40.480 --> 0:29:44.200 just give you a reminder. The reminder is take control 0:29:44.440 --> 0:29:47.040 of your bitcoin. Look, for the first time in history, 0:29:47.080 --> 0:29:50.040 we have a way to preserve our property, take custody 0:29:50.080 --> 0:29:52.400 of our property and protect it with no cost. You 0:29:52.480 --> 0:29:53.920 can't do that with gold, you can't do it with 0:29:53.920 --> 0:29:56.240 your stocks, and so we can do with bitcoin. 0:29:56.280 --> 0:29:56.959 And you should. 0:29:57.040 --> 0:29:59.280 Now don't store it on an app on your phone 0:29:59.320 --> 0:30:01.280 that can get half. What you want to do is 0:30:01.400 --> 0:30:04.760 use a hardware device something like this treasure right here. 0:30:04.880 --> 0:30:07.320 So basically your private key sits here. When you want 0:30:07.320 --> 0:30:09.400 to do a transaction, you plug it into your computer, 0:30:09.600 --> 0:30:11.800 sign the transaction. When you're done, you unplug it and 0:30:11.840 --> 0:30:14.080 put it back into your safe. I've used Treasure for now, 0:30:14.120 --> 0:30:15.960 I don't know six seven years, because I think it's 0:30:15.960 --> 0:30:18.040 the easiest one to use. I've tried, I think pretty 0:30:18.120 --> 0:30:20.880 much all of them. And it's also open source so 0:30:21.000 --> 0:30:24.480 you can trust the code. And again it's easy. Why easy, 0:30:24.520 --> 0:30:26.840 Because if it's too complex, it makes me think of 0:30:26.880 --> 0:30:29.360 how many potential holes and risk there could be, not 0:30:29.440 --> 0:30:31.480 just in the device itself, but even in my own 0:30:31.520 --> 0:30:33.880 ability to secure it. So I want something fast, I 0:30:33.920 --> 0:30:36.320 want something easy. I don't want something safe. That's why 0:30:36.320 --> 0:30:39.440 I use Treasure. And if you don't use Treasure, use something. 0:30:39.520 --> 0:30:43.160 Please get your bitcoin off the exchange, use a hardware 0:30:43.160 --> 0:30:45.880 device to secure your private key, and if you like Treasure, 0:30:45.960 --> 0:30:48.680 check out the link down below. What do you think 0:30:48.720 --> 0:30:51.680 about somebody like Larry Fink who went on TV a 0:30:51.680 --> 0:30:55.840 couple of weeks ago and said, hey, I I think 0:30:55.840 --> 0:30:58.040 that bitcoin's a legit asset. Everyone should take another look 0:30:58.080 --> 0:31:00.000 at it for example, right, and we've seen many examples 0:31:00.280 --> 0:31:03.040 of that. Trump was just speaking about bitcoin and the 0:31:03.040 --> 0:31:05.880 importance of bitcoin after a couple of years ago, seeing 0:31:05.880 --> 0:31:07.840 that he thought it was a scam and whatever rate 0:31:09.760 --> 0:31:12.080 are those people just changing their mind to jump on 0:31:12.120 --> 0:31:15.040 the bandwagon providing a lip service. Does Larry Fink, you know, 0:31:15.200 --> 0:31:18.000 just want to pump up his own book or do 0:31:18.040 --> 0:31:20.280 you think it's possible that people can actually do research 0:31:20.280 --> 0:31:21.040 and change their owner. 0:31:22.800 --> 0:31:26.280 I think Larry has found something. I think Larry is 0:31:26.280 --> 0:31:29.600 sincere in the interviews that you're referring to. I think 0:31:29.640 --> 0:31:32.920 he has done an enormous amount of work that as 0:31:32.960 --> 0:31:35.880 bitcoiners were not privy to, and I think he's got 0:31:36.160 --> 0:31:38.960 a huge amount like a huge team around him with 0:31:39.080 --> 0:31:42.520 really smart people who are giving him arguably the best information. 0:31:42.880 --> 0:31:45.280 Now Wall Street are full of really smart guys. But 0:31:45.280 --> 0:31:48.120 if you look at Larry Fink's genesis story, you realize 0:31:48.120 --> 0:31:49.800 that he wanted to token ask the world back in 0:31:49.880 --> 0:31:53.320 nineteen eighty and it started with residential mortgage backed securities. 0:31:53.680 --> 0:31:55.320 Now I look at the work that he's doing with 0:31:55.360 --> 0:32:01.040 the ETF and there's an opportunity for Larry to, I believe, 0:32:01.280 --> 0:32:04.960 create the world's greatest investment product, which he tried to 0:32:04.960 --> 0:32:07.080 do with the residential mortgage backed securities. That was an 0:32:07.120 --> 0:32:12.120 attempt to tokenize real estate or real estate globally. That 0:32:12.200 --> 0:32:15.920 led to a catastrophic failure in the GFC because, as 0:32:16.000 --> 0:32:19.160 you and the prelude to that was you had the 0:32:19.200 --> 0:32:23.600 investment banks wanting to monetize that product upfront and then 0:32:23.720 --> 0:32:28.480 export the risk to main street and pension funds globally. Sadly, 0:32:29.160 --> 0:32:31.760 this led to a credit boom, This led to the GFC. 0:32:31.840 --> 0:32:34.160 But what happened with that credit boom and GFC was 0:32:34.960 --> 0:32:38.080 there was an insatiable demand from Wall Street to create 0:32:38.120 --> 0:32:41.800 more products of that mortgage back security then on sell it, however, 0:32:42.520 --> 0:32:45.400 and that meant that the main street lenders had to 0:32:45.440 --> 0:32:47.840 go out the risk curve to find poorer and poorer 0:32:47.920 --> 0:32:51.320 quality borrowers to fulfill that need. And this is what 0:32:51.400 --> 0:32:53.520 led to the ninja lines and no income, no job 0:32:53.560 --> 0:32:57.560 applicant line fabulous. We loved it until we didn't. And 0:32:58.000 --> 0:33:01.160 this is the problem is that Wall Street monetized it 0:33:01.400 --> 0:33:03.280 and took all the profits and no risk, and they 0:33:03.320 --> 0:33:08.160 exported all the risk. And then when the poor retail 0:33:08.160 --> 0:33:12.080 borrower who couldn't afford a million dollar mortgage on the 0:33:12.080 --> 0:33:15.320 salary of someone stacking shells led to the underpinning of 0:33:15.640 --> 0:33:19.720 and the cascading of values across the world. Now I 0:33:19.760 --> 0:33:21.760 look at that and I think what happens if we 0:33:21.920 --> 0:33:25.680 get a principal protected note and Larry starts issuing that 0:33:25.720 --> 0:33:29.960 where he marries up a five year US treasury with bitcoin, 0:33:30.520 --> 0:33:33.600 and so you get a capital guaranteed note where they 0:33:33.600 --> 0:33:36.160 issue a ten billion dollar note. Eight billion goes into 0:33:36.200 --> 0:33:39.160 a five year treasury. That five year treasury grows from 0:33:39.160 --> 0:33:41.680 eight billion to ten billion in the five years, and 0:33:41.720 --> 0:33:44.520 then they get to then invest two billion dollars into bitcoin. 0:33:45.080 --> 0:33:47.360 And that way, if you put in a million dollars, 0:33:47.400 --> 0:33:49.640 the worst result you can achieve in five years is 0:33:49.640 --> 0:33:52.520 five is your million dollars back. But this gives an 0:33:52.520 --> 0:33:55.960 opportunity for Larry to effectively tokenize the world, and this 0:33:56.080 --> 0:33:58.200 is ultimately what he wants, and he can achieve that 0:33:58.360 --> 0:34:02.680 with US backed US government BACKDT and coupling that to Bitcoin, 0:34:03.000 --> 0:34:05.479 both of which are risk free. And then that takes 0:34:05.560 --> 0:34:09.240 all of the risk away from retail, retail investors, retail 0:34:09.239 --> 0:34:11.840 moms and dads, and it puts it firmly and squarely 0:34:11.920 --> 0:34:13.920 on the shoulders of the two risk free assets in 0:34:13.920 --> 0:34:16.680 the world that we've got, which is US government treasuries 0:34:17.040 --> 0:34:17.640 and bitcoin. 0:34:17.840 --> 0:34:22.520 Yeah, a small business owner, are you buried in all 0:34:22.640 --> 0:34:24.920 types of work keeping you from the real thing that 0:34:24.960 --> 0:34:27.600 makes you money. Well, that's where just works comes in. 0:34:27.600 --> 0:34:30.640 They're the all in one platform that supports small business growth. 0:34:30.840 --> 0:34:32.000 You can get all. 0:34:31.800 --> 0:34:35.040 Their tools that help with benefits like payroll and HR 0:34:35.120 --> 0:34:39.160 and compliance with transparent pricing. Now they help you hire 0:34:39.200 --> 0:34:43.880 top talent internationally, internew markets, quickly scale international operations without 0:34:43.920 --> 0:34:46.120 the workload, and for every how. 0:34:46.000 --> 0:34:46.960 Do I do it? Question? 0:34:47.160 --> 0:34:49.480 You can reach out to their expert staff from sole 0:34:49.560 --> 0:34:50.800 proprietor or. 0:34:50.760 --> 0:34:51.560 A team of twenty. 0:34:51.960 --> 0:34:55.560 Just Works empowers all kinds of small businesses with real 0:34:55.640 --> 0:34:59.880 human support. So visit justwors dot com slash podcast to 0:35:00.000 --> 0:35:02.640 and joined the thousands of small businesses that trust just 0:35:02.719 --> 0:35:06.239 Works to take care of payroll, benefits, compliance and more. 0:35:06.280 --> 0:35:09.920 Again that's Justworks dot com slash podcast. 0:35:11.320 --> 0:35:11.760 I agree. 0:35:11.800 --> 0:35:14.200 I mean when I listened to Larry Fink, he doesn't 0:35:14.239 --> 0:35:15.759 just say, oh I like it, you should buy it. 0:35:15.960 --> 0:35:19.320 He gives the reasons, like the mechanisms, the supply demand mechanisms, 0:35:19.320 --> 0:35:21.759 of why it makes sense, of what it protects you from, 0:35:21.840 --> 0:35:24.000 of why it goes up. And so to me, that 0:35:24.080 --> 0:35:27.520 gives me like a level I think he shows demonstrates 0:35:27.560 --> 0:35:29.400 that he has a level of understanding about it, not 0:35:29.440 --> 0:35:31.840 just lip service. I think it's crazy for people to 0:35:31.880 --> 0:35:33.839 think that you just can't change your mind. I mean, 0:35:34.080 --> 0:35:36.280 the smartest people in the world change their mind, probably 0:35:36.320 --> 0:35:38.719 the most right. I think a sign of intelligence is 0:35:39.120 --> 0:35:41.239 how quickly you can change your mind based off of 0:35:41.280 --> 0:35:42.879 new information that you've received. 0:35:43.520 --> 0:35:44.200 So it. 0:35:46.120 --> 0:35:47.759 It never ceases to amaze me. And I suppose this 0:35:47.800 --> 0:35:50.080 is an example of how closed minded some people are. 0:35:50.239 --> 0:35:52.719 It's like, oh, but he said that five years ago. 0:35:53.640 --> 0:35:56.279 Well, I think credit to Larry. He has done a 0:35:56.280 --> 0:35:59.360 great job in changing tackle that. I think it's very difficult. 0:35:59.560 --> 0:36:01.839 One of the touring points he most recently made where 0:36:01.880 --> 0:36:06.040 I genuinely feel like he understands the problem. I haven't 0:36:06.120 --> 0:36:09.080 heard him talking about debasement of the dollar now. He 0:36:09.120 --> 0:36:11.799 talked about the devisement of the dollar in America. He 0:36:11.840 --> 0:36:14.080 talked about the de basement of dollars around the world. 0:36:14.440 --> 0:36:18.359 He clearly understands the problem of the money printing and 0:36:18.400 --> 0:36:21.360 how bitcoin solves it. So hats off to Larry, like 0:36:21.480 --> 0:36:23.920 one of the smartest people in the world and arguably 0:36:23.960 --> 0:36:24.800 the greatest salesman. 0:36:25.239 --> 0:36:27.279 Now getting back to the question that kind of that 0:36:27.640 --> 0:36:29.600 led into this, which was I was just asking sort 0:36:29.600 --> 0:36:31.239 of you had made a statement that it's the best 0:36:31.280 --> 0:36:34.120 performing asset, and so again I said it's the best. 0:36:34.160 --> 0:36:36.399 It has been the best performing. Let's think about the 0:36:36.400 --> 0:36:39.600 forward projection of this. Michael Saylor laid out some math 0:36:40.440 --> 0:36:42.399 which we're going to link to Michael Sailor's interview down 0:36:42.840 --> 0:36:45.680 the presentation down below at the Bitcoin Conference in twenty 0:36:45.680 --> 0:36:49.360 twenty four. It's certainly worth a watch. And Michael Saylor 0:36:49.400 --> 0:36:51.440 sort of laid out this twenty one year projection and 0:36:51.480 --> 0:36:54.560 he gave sort of three price models bear, bear, medium, 0:36:54.560 --> 0:36:55.600 and bowl or whatever it was. 0:36:56.560 --> 0:36:57.640 I thought it was pretty good. 0:37:00.400 --> 0:37:03.640 Certainly might be conservative on the barecase over aggressive on 0:37:03.640 --> 0:37:06.000 the ballcase. I don't know, you think maybe the math 0:37:06.080 --> 0:37:08.040 might be a little bit off. Maybe where do you 0:37:08.120 --> 0:37:10.840 think the math is when you're looking at the projection? 0:37:10.960 --> 0:37:11.120 Right? 0:37:11.160 --> 0:37:13.400 So this is where a lot of people get things wrong. Right, So, 0:37:13.440 --> 0:37:16.120 when you're investing your money, like I always tell people, like, 0:37:16.560 --> 0:37:19.120 you need to know what you're expecting when you get 0:37:19.120 --> 0:37:20.120 in right, Where do. 0:37:20.080 --> 0:37:22.239 I think it can go over what time frame? What 0:37:22.280 --> 0:37:23.880 are my risks? You have a plan for that. 0:37:24.320 --> 0:37:27.080 So if you're advising your high net worth individuals on 0:37:27.120 --> 0:37:29.480 buying bitcoin, where do you lay that out? How do 0:37:29.520 --> 0:37:30.279 you project that out? 0:37:31.160 --> 0:37:33.279 I think it comes down to a whiting to start with. 0:37:33.400 --> 0:37:36.600 So you need to understand what the risk profile is, 0:37:36.640 --> 0:37:40.399 to understand what they can and can't sleep with. So 0:37:40.520 --> 0:37:43.840 I urge any client to invest however much they can 0:37:44.080 --> 0:37:47.719 invest without losing any sleep. Now, I typically start that 0:37:47.760 --> 0:37:52.280 conversation at ten percent. For families, that's an inconsequential amount 0:37:52.320 --> 0:37:55.880 of wealth. It's embarrassing if they lose it, but it 0:37:55.920 --> 0:37:58.239 doesn't change anything in their life. It doesn't change where 0:37:58.280 --> 0:38:00.759 the holiday, where the kids go to school, where they live. 0:38:01.239 --> 0:38:02.160 Nothing changes now. 0:38:02.239 --> 0:38:03.000 Just real quick. 0:38:03.160 --> 0:38:06.960 So ten percent, Now, I could put one hundred percent 0:38:07.000 --> 0:38:09.080 of my wealth in and have a ten percent stop loss. 0:38:09.120 --> 0:38:11.319 It's only risking ten percent. Or I could put ten 0:38:11.360 --> 0:38:12.839 percent of my wealth in and have a zero percent 0:38:12.840 --> 0:38:16.120 stop loss. So I'm just curious on that because the 0:38:16.239 --> 0:38:19.840 chance of Big one going to zero is highly unlikely. 0:38:19.880 --> 0:38:22.719 I mean it's not even probable, right, It could draw 0:38:22.800 --> 0:38:25.640 down fifty or seventy five percent. So if they put 0:38:25.680 --> 0:38:28.280 ten percent in lost half of that, that's. 0:38:28.160 --> 0:38:29.320 Kind of inconsequential. 0:38:29.800 --> 0:38:32.879 I agree, And this is where it's a long game 0:38:33.200 --> 0:38:35.800 and people take a long time to understand it. Because 0:38:36.080 --> 0:38:38.480 as simple as it is, twenty one million and that's 0:38:38.480 --> 0:38:40.879 all I really need to understand. There are so many 0:38:40.880 --> 0:38:42.880 other factors that they need to understand in order to 0:38:42.880 --> 0:38:46.840 get comfortable with putting in additional capital. We like clients 0:38:46.880 --> 0:38:48.640 to hold the underlying because we think that's going to 0:38:48.680 --> 0:38:52.040 create the greatest optionality moving forward. And we try and 0:38:52.120 --> 0:38:54.240 veer away from ETFs and the rest of it, because 0:38:54.440 --> 0:38:57.760 if you want maximum optionality, you want to hold the underlying. Now, 0:38:58.800 --> 0:39:02.279 a ten percent allocation drops fifty percent. I always tell 0:39:02.280 --> 0:39:05.160 my clients, now, whatever you put in and you make 0:39:05.160 --> 0:39:07.920 that initial purchase, just be sure to understand that this 0:39:07.920 --> 0:39:10.520 could drop fifty percent tomorrow, and then I'm going to 0:39:10.520 --> 0:39:12.680 come back and ask you for another ten percent to 0:39:12.760 --> 0:39:14.640 put in the next day when it's dropped fifty percent, 0:39:14.680 --> 0:39:17.719 so we can dollar cost average into it now on 0:39:17.760 --> 0:39:21.319 a new investment. I haven't met a client yet who says, 0:39:21.360 --> 0:39:23.600 you know what, that's a great idea, here's my money, 0:39:23.680 --> 0:39:25.960 let's do it. It takes a long time. It's takes 0:39:26.040 --> 0:39:28.960 a lot of education to get a client comfortable with 0:39:29.160 --> 0:39:32.720 a serious allocation. By serious, I mean anything over five percent. 0:39:35.440 --> 0:39:37.640 And that's a really good point that I'll just hit 0:39:37.680 --> 0:39:38.800 on for a second. I want to get back to 0:39:38.800 --> 0:39:40.920 the price predictions. But just hit on that for a second, 0:39:40.960 --> 0:39:44.800 which is for these high net worth individuals, family offices 0:39:44.800 --> 0:39:48.680 and institutions to make a move, it doesn't happen quickly. Yeah, 0:39:49.280 --> 0:39:51.400 there's big numbers, there's a lot of information they have 0:39:51.400 --> 0:39:52.840 to take in, there's a lot of education they have 0:39:52.880 --> 0:39:55.319 to overcome, and a lot of times there's a lot 0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:58.640 of decision makers that have to be involved in this, right, 0:39:58.960 --> 0:40:00.640 And I just want to hit that point. Wait, because 0:40:01.000 --> 0:40:04.000 you know, with what's happened in the ETFs and black Rock, 0:40:04.120 --> 0:40:06.839 and you know now President's talking about it, a lot 0:40:06.840 --> 0:40:09.640 of questions might be we'll WHI aren't more people buying then, 0:40:10.040 --> 0:40:12.839 and I would say they are, or more specifically, they're 0:40:12.880 --> 0:40:17.600 getting ready to correct. Just as an antidotal piece of information. 0:40:17.719 --> 0:40:19.120 In twenty twenty one, I went and spent the year 0:40:19.160 --> 0:40:22.120 in Puerto Rico. In Puerto Rico sort of this Galt's gulch, 0:40:22.200 --> 0:40:24.160 where like all the rich people are moving over there, right, 0:40:24.520 --> 0:40:28.200 and my friends over there were some of the some 0:40:28.520 --> 0:40:30.120 very very I'm not going to name drop them, but 0:40:30.320 --> 0:40:34.520 very very influential, like hedge fund managers and like very 0:40:34.640 --> 0:40:39.439 very established investors, you know, billion dollar funds, et cetera. 0:40:40.520 --> 0:40:42.560 One of my probably best friends over there at the time. 0:40:44.320 --> 0:40:47.680 He he doesn't believe in bitcoin. 0:40:48.560 --> 0:40:49.240 He's a trader. 0:40:50.280 --> 0:40:54.520 He's a very well known name, super brilliant, like amazingly brilliant. 0:40:54.840 --> 0:40:57.000 And he bought bitcoin at like eighteen thousand in the fund, 0:40:57.120 --> 0:40:59.160 sold it at like forty five thousand, like crushed it 0:40:59.200 --> 0:41:01.160 for his fund, right, But he just is like, no, 0:41:01.280 --> 0:41:03.560 I just whatever, Like I kind of like Monaro makes 0:41:03.600 --> 0:41:05.839 sense because it's private, but like not Bitcoin whatever. He's 0:41:05.880 --> 0:41:07.440 like to me, it's just a trading toy. That's always 0:41:07.480 --> 0:41:10.799 been his approach to it. That being said, about a 0:41:10.800 --> 0:41:13.480 month ago I talked to him and he's been out 0:41:13.480 --> 0:41:14.920 since it was there in the forty five forty eight 0:41:14.960 --> 0:41:17.120 thousand range or whatever. About a month ago he said, 0:41:18.040 --> 0:41:20.880 Bitcoin is now the single largest position my fund has. 0:41:20.880 --> 0:41:23.160 Amazing And I said why. 0:41:24.000 --> 0:41:25.680 And it's not because all of a sudden he believes 0:41:25.680 --> 0:41:28.640 in it. He's a trader, he said. If you knew 0:41:28.680 --> 0:41:32.040 the amount of billionaires that have called me and asked 0:41:32.080 --> 0:41:34.920 me how they can get into this and secure it 0:41:35.000 --> 0:41:37.279 for a long period of time because of the craziness 0:41:37.280 --> 0:41:39.320 of what's going on in the world, you would understand 0:41:39.360 --> 0:41:42.480 why I'm so bullish, and so I just say that 0:41:42.600 --> 0:41:44.919 story just to say, like, we do have all these 0:41:44.960 --> 0:41:47.000 people that are trying to get in to the point 0:41:47.000 --> 0:41:48.600 that you're making. Right, there's a lot of education have 0:41:48.640 --> 0:41:52.400 to overcome. It's coming. Would you say that's fair? Is 0:41:52.400 --> 0:41:53.880 that kind of what you've seen in your own experience? 0:41:53.960 --> 0:41:57.160 Absolutely, And this is the only asset that is ex legal, 0:41:57.800 --> 0:42:00.680 So it's outside of the purview all the US government. 0:42:00.880 --> 0:42:03.759 It's beyond they touch. It's about the only thing that 0:42:03.800 --> 0:42:06.920 can be other than physical gold and physical goal. We 0:42:07.040 --> 0:42:08.480 all now has its on constraints. 0:42:09.080 --> 0:42:11.080 Okay, so let's get back to the price prediction. So 0:42:11.160 --> 0:42:13.120 Michael Saylor sort of laid out this twenty one year 0:42:13.200 --> 0:42:15.400 plan by twenty forty five, and it would have a 0:42:15.920 --> 0:42:19.520 base case of thirteen million or sorry, let's start with 0:42:19.520 --> 0:42:22.399 a barecase of three million dollars per bitcoin, a base 0:42:22.440 --> 0:42:25.399 case of thirteen million dollars per bitcoin, and a bowl 0:42:25.480 --> 0:42:29.000 case of forty nine million dollars per bitcoin. I thought, 0:42:29.360 --> 0:42:31.880 you know, it was thoughtful. He said that right now 0:42:31.920 --> 0:42:35.279 currently bitcoins had a compoundent and a growth rate of 0:42:35.320 --> 0:42:37.360 about one fifty but right now we're having about a 0:42:37.400 --> 0:42:41.440 fifty five percent ar and he says, you know this, 0:42:41.560 --> 0:42:44.920 this decelerates fifty to forty five, thirty whatever and finally 0:42:44.920 --> 0:42:47.440 stabilizes around twenty, which is about double what the S 0:42:47.480 --> 0:42:49.520 and P five hundred is. Now, you've mentioned the scarcity 0:42:49.560 --> 0:42:53.480 many times. Double the S and P five hundred like 0:42:53.920 --> 0:42:58.759 that seems super ultra conservative to me. But you think 0:42:58.760 --> 0:43:02.120 maybe some of those numbers are off just a little. 0:43:02.680 --> 0:43:06.440 And I think we all love Michael Saylor. I think 0:43:06.480 --> 0:43:08.040 he's Bitcoin's greatest proponent. 0:43:08.360 --> 0:43:10.880 We're all lane, none of us know the future. We 0:43:10.920 --> 0:43:11.200 don't know. 0:43:11.480 --> 0:43:14.680 That's true, But just if you look at his work 0:43:14.680 --> 0:43:17.239 in there, one of his final comments in that speech was, 0:43:17.440 --> 0:43:20.239 we have a thousand X from here now. The price 0:43:20.239 --> 0:43:22.839 at sixty five thousand dollars on the day, give or take, 0:43:23.280 --> 0:43:25.680 would mean where we've got a sixty five million dollar 0:43:25.719 --> 0:43:29.680 bitcoin coming, not a forty nine. So I think Michael 0:43:29.840 --> 0:43:32.919 would prefer to surprise to the upside as opposed to 0:43:32.960 --> 0:43:35.000 put a big number out there. Not that forty nine 0:43:35.040 --> 0:43:37.440 is not a big number. But I think there's a 0:43:37.640 --> 0:43:41.080 host of things that I disagree with fundamentally there. And 0:43:42.040 --> 0:43:43.600 if I look at this, and I think probably the 0:43:43.680 --> 0:43:46.600 lynch pin for something going substantially higher than what he 0:43:46.680 --> 0:43:49.280 lays out is the fact that we haven't had someone 0:43:49.320 --> 0:43:52.239 with a money printer being able to buy bitcoin yet, 0:43:52.360 --> 0:43:55.200 no one has done that. When we have someone do that, 0:43:55.360 --> 0:44:00.239 then that can dramatically shift that playing field for to 0:44:00.280 --> 0:44:03.520 the significant upside. When the US Federal Reserve decides to 0:44:03.560 --> 0:44:06.560 buy some and can have the ability to hold their 0:44:06.560 --> 0:44:08.799 finger down on the money printer, they can buy a 0:44:08.840 --> 0:44:10.880 limitless amount and set the floor at ten million, one 0:44:10.960 --> 0:44:13.560 hundred million, whatever they want, and now all of a sudden, 0:44:13.560 --> 0:44:16.520 we're in a completely new paradigm. So for me, it's 0:44:16.600 --> 0:44:19.040 very difficult to argue with what Michael says, and I 0:44:19.080 --> 0:44:22.400 think all of it's consistent and congruent thinking that I 0:44:22.440 --> 0:44:25.960 agree with. The only X factor that changes it to 0:44:26.000 --> 0:44:29.600 the upside, not the downside, is a government with a 0:44:29.600 --> 0:44:31.799 money printer that gets involved and says we're going to 0:44:31.800 --> 0:44:32.320 set the floor. 0:44:32.800 --> 0:44:34.520 Yeah. I mean, I think that is maybe a little 0:44:34.560 --> 0:44:36.480 bit baked into the cake in a sense, because you're 0:44:36.480 --> 0:44:38.759 saying that it's projected to capture seven percent of the 0:44:38.760 --> 0:44:42.440 world's assets, and so if you think about it, I mean, really, 0:44:42.480 --> 0:44:44.600 we have this amount of assets, so I like to 0:44:44.640 --> 0:44:47.359 think I laid out a case that there's like three 0:44:47.360 --> 0:44:49.760 ways I would think about valueing bitcoin in the future. 0:44:49.800 --> 0:44:53.040 So like the venture capital method. So like uber told 0:44:53.080 --> 0:44:55.640 took money from taxis and limos and vans, So if 0:44:55.640 --> 0:44:57.839 I got five percent from each of those, it's worth this, right, 0:44:57.880 --> 0:44:59.879 And so then we can look at the total value 0:45:00.040 --> 0:45:02.560 bitcoin could be pulling from. So Michael Sailor laid out 0:45:02.520 --> 0:45:05.680 with nine hundred trillion dollars in assets effectively, so we 0:45:05.719 --> 0:45:08.680 get seven percent of that for example, Right, I think 0:45:09.080 --> 0:45:12.120 if if a sovereign were to buy it, it would 0:45:12.160 --> 0:45:17.919 just get to that percentage of global assets faster. Right, 0:45:18.680 --> 0:45:20.880 So I want to get back to that because of 0:45:20.920 --> 0:45:24.640 what Trump's announcement was. But I also think about it 0:45:24.640 --> 0:45:27.200 in the sense of not just if a government were 0:45:27.200 --> 0:45:29.239 to buy it, but the rate of debasement that we're 0:45:29.239 --> 0:45:34.520 facing in the future. So Michael Howell, in my opinion, 0:45:34.560 --> 0:45:38.880 probably the best in mapping out global liquidity flows. And 0:45:38.960 --> 0:45:40.560 so it's not just looking at what the FED balance 0:45:40.600 --> 0:45:42.600 sheet is, but the major central banks of the world. 0:45:43.239 --> 0:45:45.160 And you can see that the S and P five 0:45:45.239 --> 0:45:48.160 hundred is basically moving in lockstep with the global liquidity. Yes, 0:45:48.200 --> 0:45:50.680 so about twelve percent so it looks on paper you're 0:45:50.680 --> 0:45:53.480 going up with your purchasing powers and growing. But bitcoin, 0:45:53.760 --> 0:45:57.080 so gold has a one point four to nine sensitivity ratio. 0:45:57.120 --> 0:45:59.680 So for every ten percent in liquidity, gold goes up 0:45:59.680 --> 0:46:02.360 by four teen percent a little bit better. But bitcoin 0:46:02.440 --> 0:46:04.520 has an eight point nine times since to be so 0:46:04.640 --> 0:46:06.680 for every ten percent in liquidy, biccong goes up by 0:46:06.800 --> 0:46:09.760 ninety percent. So you could just look at to the point, 0:46:09.840 --> 0:46:12.120 you know, I guess if the central banks use debt, 0:46:12.440 --> 0:46:15.759 but that expansion of the monetary base, and all we 0:46:15.800 --> 0:46:18.000 have to do is look at the projections by the 0:46:18.040 --> 0:46:21.720 government In the US, the Congressional Budget Office CBO tells 0:46:21.800 --> 0:46:25.040 us what it's going to be by twenty fifty, right, 0:46:25.120 --> 0:46:27.000 and so that's one way to look at it. So 0:46:27.200 --> 0:46:29.520 not only could it capture seven percent of the world's assets, 0:46:30.000 --> 0:46:33.480 but today they're at nine hundred trillion. Those assets could 0:46:33.560 --> 0:46:36.239 be one point four quadrillion by the time it gets 0:46:36.239 --> 0:46:38.560 set seven percent, and that's where it's probably undershot to 0:46:38.600 --> 0:46:39.239 the downside. 0:46:39.280 --> 0:46:41.880 That's it. And this is where I look at things 0:46:42.200 --> 0:46:46.040 a little differently, in that if we look at the ultrawealthy, 0:46:46.120 --> 0:46:48.359 we look at Alon, we look at Jeff Bezos. They 0:46:48.360 --> 0:46:50.880 store their wealth in the companies that they own because 0:46:50.880 --> 0:46:53.080 they've got the most control over it. I believe that 0:46:53.080 --> 0:46:57.879 that has the most significant upside. They're not ninety nine 0:46:57.880 --> 0:47:00.560 percent of their wealth would be stored in these assets 0:47:00.560 --> 0:47:03.200 that they've built from the ground up. They're not spending 0:47:03.280 --> 0:47:05.880 one hundred percent of their wealth perannum they would be 0:47:05.880 --> 0:47:08.040 spending I would have thought zero point one of a 0:47:08.080 --> 0:47:11.839 percent of the wealth parannum. That seems like a pretty 0:47:11.880 --> 0:47:15.520 fair assessment what I look at. And this is where 0:47:15.560 --> 0:47:19.840 I think bitcoin completely redefines this is this gives everyone 0:47:19.880 --> 0:47:23.040 on Earth. It democratizes assets, and it gives everyone the 0:47:23.080 --> 0:47:26.000 ability to be a Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk and 0:47:26.080 --> 0:47:29.800 owned Tesla and Amazon themselves. It gives them a monetary 0:47:29.840 --> 0:47:34.640 premium into the future that has no comparison in relative 0:47:34.719 --> 0:47:37.399 terms from an investment perspective. And when you look at 0:47:37.400 --> 0:47:40.280 that and understand that price is determined at the margin, 0:47:40.920 --> 0:47:44.360 we can have so much more capital stored in bitcoin. 0:47:45.280 --> 0:47:48.839 That's going to be in percentage terms, we could see 0:47:48.880 --> 0:47:51.120 ninety nine percent of the world's wealth stored in bitcoin 0:47:51.480 --> 0:47:53.960 and only one percent is for real world assets. Because 0:47:54.000 --> 0:47:56.480 people are going to want to have that premium of 0:47:56.520 --> 0:47:59.200 being able to move their value forward into the future 0:47:59.320 --> 0:48:04.240 for future person. So I'm probably the most bullish person 0:48:04.239 --> 0:48:07.040 when it comes to that because I understand the value 0:48:07.040 --> 0:48:10.040 of optionality into the future. And this is where bitcoin 0:48:10.280 --> 0:48:12.560 is the only asset that has that fight chuck. 0:48:12.719 --> 0:48:15.600 Yeah, Now, what's interesting with bitcoin is it started in 0:48:15.640 --> 0:48:20.080 the shadowy shadow supercoder world or whatever and sort of 0:48:20.160 --> 0:48:22.440 kind of spread to the people, right, a decentralized, bottom 0:48:22.520 --> 0:48:25.000 up approach, and so it was people, people people, and 0:48:25.080 --> 0:48:27.839 eventually it got to a government in l Salvador. But 0:48:28.040 --> 0:48:31.040 that's like probably still the bottom of the government level. Right. 0:48:31.040 --> 0:48:33.640 They're one of the poorest countries in the world. We're 0:48:33.640 --> 0:48:35.040 the most dangerous county in the world. Now one of 0:48:35.080 --> 0:48:38.520 the safest. They're turning around. But to that perspective, kind 0:48:38.560 --> 0:48:40.440 of a bottom up phenomenon. 0:48:40.000 --> 0:48:42.960 Yes, and Bukeley, President Bukeley. 0:48:42.680 --> 0:48:44.279 From L Salvador, has been around talking to a bunch 0:48:44.280 --> 0:48:47.359 of other government leaders, but other small government leaders about 0:48:47.400 --> 0:48:49.840 doing something like this, and so again a bottom up approach. 0:48:50.440 --> 0:48:52.040 I always thought the US would be sort of the 0:48:52.120 --> 0:48:55.120 last move advantage out of any country because of they 0:48:55.120 --> 0:48:58.600 have the dollar, they have the most to lose. So 0:48:58.719 --> 0:49:01.879 to see two two of three presidential candidates come out 0:49:01.880 --> 0:49:04.919 and announced that they would have a strategic reserve, trying 0:49:04.920 --> 0:49:07.440 to bring it kind of on par with gold as 0:49:07.480 --> 0:49:10.000 well as even if neither of them win. We also 0:49:10.080 --> 0:49:13.040 have Senator Loomis who put together a bill to do that. 0:49:13.800 --> 0:49:16.360 It seems that that switches from a bottom approach to 0:49:16.400 --> 0:49:18.319 a top down approach. I mean, back to game theory. 0:49:18.360 --> 0:49:22.319 If the US announces this, then I think all the 0:49:22.360 --> 0:49:24.799 other nations are sort of forced to react to that. 0:49:25.320 --> 0:49:28.120 Currently in the betting markets, Trump is favored to win 0:49:28.239 --> 0:49:32.200 by fifty six percent, and if he wins, I think 0:49:32.200 --> 0:49:33.960 he would probably do it, Like why wouldn't he? 0:49:34.280 --> 0:49:36.480 So that's basically. 0:49:35.960 --> 0:49:39.000 Giving us, at this point, per the betting markets, at 0:49:39.080 --> 0:49:43.200 fifty six percent, odds that the US will adopt this 0:49:43.280 --> 0:49:47.839 and other nations will be forced to I guess that's 0:49:47.840 --> 0:49:49.880 the way I read it, And I'm curious what your 0:49:49.920 --> 0:49:53.759 take is on that specifically, because we haven't really seen 0:49:53.800 --> 0:49:56.320 the price of bitcoin pump based off of that news. 0:49:57.280 --> 0:50:00.520 I think there is famal indecision in the USA voters 0:50:00.760 --> 0:50:05.480 mind than what the betting markets predict. I think Kamala 0:50:05.640 --> 0:50:08.759 Kamala Harris is a much bigger threat than people are 0:50:08.760 --> 0:50:11.279 making out. I think people are very dismissive of her, 0:50:11.560 --> 0:50:13.760 and I think the Republicans have got a huge amount 0:50:13.760 --> 0:50:15.000 of work to do if they want to win this. 0:50:15.120 --> 0:50:18.440 It's not a lay down like they know well, they'll 0:50:18.440 --> 0:50:22.640 have you believe that said, this puts an enormous amount 0:50:22.640 --> 0:50:25.879 of pressure on the rest of the world that they 0:50:25.920 --> 0:50:28.719 need to act really, really quickly, and we could be 0:50:29.200 --> 0:50:31.680 much closer to the suddenly part of the gradually then 0:50:31.719 --> 0:50:35.920 suddenly than we realize because you have two of the 0:50:35.920 --> 0:50:39.360 three presidential candidates making promises. I thought Robert F. Kennedy 0:50:39.480 --> 0:50:43.160 was absolutely brilliant. He showed a deep command and understanding 0:50:43.200 --> 0:50:45.120 of bitcoin on a very deep level, and had some 0:50:45.160 --> 0:50:46.000 great policies. 0:50:46.520 --> 0:50:47.879 He really had a good script writer for. 0:50:47.840 --> 0:50:52.000 Sure, phenomenal yes, and he delivered it well. Trump, on 0:50:52.040 --> 0:50:53.960 the other hand, he made a promise that that's all 0:50:54.000 --> 0:50:56.440 he needed to make. He said, Hey, I'm going to 0:50:56.480 --> 0:50:58.960 make sure we don't sell the bitcoin, and what's ironic, 0:50:59.320 --> 0:51:03.759 three days later US government sells thirty thousand bitcoin or 0:51:03.760 --> 0:51:06.640 whatever they've sold they've put to market. I want to 0:51:06.640 --> 0:51:09.600 see a competition between the Dems and the Republicans, who 0:51:09.600 --> 0:51:12.560 are the only two feasible candidates, and I want to 0:51:12.560 --> 0:51:14.759 see them fight for bitcoin. I want to see who 0:51:14.840 --> 0:51:17.799 can put together the most outrageous policy. But to me, 0:51:18.000 --> 0:51:21.760 what we saw in Nashville was enough to say, Okay, now, 0:51:21.880 --> 0:51:25.000 anyone dismissing bitcoin as that magic Internet money sort of 0:51:25.120 --> 0:51:29.080 really needs to have a look, go away, reassess, and 0:51:29.120 --> 0:51:32.320 realize that where at this we're standing at the forefront 0:51:32.400 --> 0:51:34.960 of global adoption on a government level. 0:51:37.560 --> 0:51:39.680 And you know, one thing about these types of things, 0:51:40.200 --> 0:51:42.440 when they tease a new tax thing and then it 0:51:42.480 --> 0:51:44.760 kind of goes away. They sort of are like seeding 0:51:44.960 --> 0:51:47.960 the future almost, if you will rate decensitazos to the future. 0:51:48.120 --> 0:51:50.000 And so even if this doesn't go through right now, 0:51:50.040 --> 0:51:52.239 it's the direction in which we're going. And so if 0:51:52.239 --> 0:51:54.479 you're a long term thinker, you should certainly be paying 0:51:54.480 --> 0:51:58.160 attention to these these signals right there. They're they're there, 0:51:58.280 --> 0:52:00.799 we're going in this direction. And I would imagine that 0:52:01.120 --> 0:52:03.719 even if Kamala wins, and even if the US doesn't 0:52:03.760 --> 0:52:07.400 go this direction now, other nations are probably paying attention 0:52:07.440 --> 0:52:09.719 to go, well, maybe we should try to front run that, 0:52:10.800 --> 0:52:11.359 would you say? 0:52:11.400 --> 0:52:14.439 So, it's the only logical thing to do. Yeah, there's 0:52:14.480 --> 0:52:17.520 only one way to Like, you can't win by not playing. 0:52:18.000 --> 0:52:19.719 You have to ender the field and you have to 0:52:19.719 --> 0:52:23.239 stop playing otherwise you completely lose. So I look at 0:52:23.239 --> 0:52:26.880 this and I think, effectively you've been gifted by the 0:52:26.960 --> 0:52:30.800 US government or their proxies in RFK, Junior and Trump 0:52:31.560 --> 0:52:34.000 an intent of what they are going to do. Yeah, 0:52:34.120 --> 0:52:35.920 if I was any other country with a money printer, 0:52:36.440 --> 0:52:38.520 the finger would be on the button now and I 0:52:38.560 --> 0:52:40.440 would be sating whatever. 0:52:40.120 --> 0:52:42.160 It is just a money printer though, right so right 0:52:42.200 --> 0:52:44.080 now we have like the rise of the bricks, and 0:52:44.120 --> 0:52:47.280 the bricks are deciding to recycle their profits their reserves 0:52:47.320 --> 0:52:50.000 not in back into US treasuries, but instead of gold. Yeah, 0:52:50.120 --> 0:52:52.120 you got to save it something. And so like, well, 0:52:52.120 --> 0:52:53.840 we don't trust US treasury Moore, after you've took in 0:52:53.880 --> 0:52:56.200 Russia's or whatever, like you're debasing, We're not going to 0:52:56.239 --> 0:52:56.360 do that. 0:52:56.400 --> 0:52:57.080 What is by gold? 0:52:57.360 --> 0:52:59.160 And so it's not to say a money printer, but 0:52:59.200 --> 0:53:01.040 like where do they say, and so they could certainly 0:53:01.080 --> 0:53:06.920 do that into bitcoin. Let's sort of transition this and 0:53:07.160 --> 0:53:09.960 as somebody who advises hang that worth individuals and families 0:53:10.000 --> 0:53:12.399 on how to get into this, just how can we 0:53:13.160 --> 0:53:17.080 generally advise the arden. So Michael Sailor lead out sort 0:53:17.120 --> 0:53:18.920 of what do you call it? A normy strategy, a 0:53:18.960 --> 0:53:22.360 ten percent, a bitcoin maximalist strategy, and a double and 0:53:22.400 --> 0:53:27.640 triple maxi strategy. So what would your normy, maximalist and 0:53:27.680 --> 0:53:30.560 triple maxi strategies be that you would advise somebody on. 0:53:31.640 --> 0:53:33.719 It really comes down to a personal preference. But I 0:53:33.719 --> 0:53:36.560 think you've got to start with an allocation that someone 0:53:36.680 --> 0:53:41.040 is comfortable or willing to lose. Now, this is counterintuitive, 0:53:41.080 --> 0:53:45.279 but people need to learn, and Bitcoin's made around for 0:53:45.320 --> 0:53:50.640 fifteen years. The belief that people will voluntarily learn about 0:53:50.640 --> 0:53:53.399 this new asset class and spend one hundred hours going 0:53:53.440 --> 0:53:55.960 down the rabbit hole and figuring things out, I think 0:53:56.080 --> 0:53:58.360 is a complete furfee that is not going to happen. 0:53:58.800 --> 0:54:01.400 What I would prefer to do as an advisor is 0:54:01.760 --> 0:54:04.600 walk clients to the deep end, tell them to buy 0:54:04.880 --> 0:54:07.279 ten percent, and literally push them in the deep end, 0:54:07.600 --> 0:54:11.160 and then ensure that there's a life raft, a stick, 0:54:11.280 --> 0:54:12.839 something to pull them out and make sure that they're 0:54:12.840 --> 0:54:15.239 not going to hurt themselves. Because once they're in the 0:54:15.239 --> 0:54:17.799 deep end and they're finding for their lives and trying 0:54:17.840 --> 0:54:20.000 to learn as much about it. They're incentivized now they 0:54:20.000 --> 0:54:22.239 have skin in the game to actually go down that 0:54:22.320 --> 0:54:24.680 rabbit hole and start learning about it. And once they 0:54:24.760 --> 0:54:27.279 learn about it, they're going to apply more capital to it. 0:54:27.360 --> 0:54:32.160 So I think the more capital you can get someone 0:54:32.239 --> 0:54:35.680 to allocate at the beginning, the bigger they're incentive to learn. 0:54:35.880 --> 0:54:39.000 The faster they learn, the more bitcoin they'll end up having. 0:54:39.160 --> 0:54:42.279 And so I think the saying from GG is the 0:54:42.280 --> 0:54:44.319 more you know, the more you buy. Yeah, And so 0:54:44.800 --> 0:54:46.960 in order to get them to that stage, though, you 0:54:47.080 --> 0:54:50.560 just need to effectively create a safe sandbox or a 0:54:51.000 --> 0:54:53.799 safe place for them to invest as much capital as 0:54:53.800 --> 0:54:55.759 they can where they're not going to get wrecked. They're 0:54:55.800 --> 0:54:57.480 not going to pay tuition fees, they're not going to 0:54:57.480 --> 0:55:00.279 get scammed out of bitcoin, they're not going to have 0:55:00.360 --> 0:55:02.800 someone Robert or altatively send it to the wrong address. 0:55:03.280 --> 0:55:06.920 That is something that you can't do with more than 0:55:06.920 --> 0:55:09.640 one or two percent of someone's capital. You can't have 0:55:09.680 --> 0:55:13.560 an a tuition fee payable of more than two percent. 0:55:13.600 --> 0:55:17.000 To me, is even one percent is unacceptable. But it's 0:55:17.000 --> 0:55:18.880 a great lesson for the rest of your capital and 0:55:18.920 --> 0:55:22.160 investment decisions moving forward. So I think and what we 0:55:22.239 --> 0:55:25.040 try to do is create a safe framework for owning 0:55:25.040 --> 0:55:28.400 the underlying asset so that clients can put in fifty 0:55:28.480 --> 0:55:31.680 eighty percent of their capital if they was so wish to, 0:55:32.160 --> 0:55:33.879 in a safe way that they're never going to lose 0:55:33.880 --> 0:55:36.720 their bitcoin, and to me, the preservation of their bitcoin, 0:55:36.760 --> 0:55:38.239 and back to that thing that we talked about at 0:55:38.280 --> 0:55:41.240 the start, that the return of capital, not the return 0:55:41.280 --> 0:55:44.960 on capital, is the most critical component. Having that custody 0:55:45.000 --> 0:55:47.840 self custody down is arguably the most important thing you 0:55:47.880 --> 0:55:49.640 can do when it comes to bitcoin. 0:55:49.800 --> 0:55:52.440 So what are the steps to that preservation of bitcoin 0:55:52.480 --> 0:55:54.960 the custody self custody that they need to be aware of. 0:55:55.640 --> 0:55:57.279 I think you want to make sure that you have 0:55:57.440 --> 0:55:59.879 got that in a way that removes every single point 0:55:59.880 --> 0:56:02.400 of failure, So you can't have a single point of 0:56:02.400 --> 0:56:06.520 failure in your custody setup. To me, having a single SEK. 0:56:06.840 --> 0:56:09.040 A lot of people talk about, hey, let's buy a 0:56:09.080 --> 0:56:12.400 hardware wallet, put all your bitcoin on that, and it's 0:56:13.120 --> 0:56:15.759 not your keys, not your cheese, so to speak to me, 0:56:15.880 --> 0:56:18.400 that represents a single point of failure because what happens 0:56:18.440 --> 0:56:21.440 if something happens to that device, or alternatively, what happens 0:56:21.440 --> 0:56:24.480 if something happens to you, who is going to access that? 0:56:24.719 --> 0:56:28.040 So how we think about preserving that bitcoin is ensuring 0:56:28.040 --> 0:56:31.000 that we remove every single point of failure from everything 0:56:31.520 --> 0:56:34.959 in that client's bitcoin life. So that means ensuring there's 0:56:34.960 --> 0:56:37.279 no single point of failure from themselves, no single point 0:56:37.320 --> 0:56:39.840 of failure from us, no single point of failure from 0:56:40.080 --> 0:56:43.160 their multi seak provider. We want to have multiple options 0:56:43.239 --> 0:56:46.680 for everything in place. And one thing that I've had, 0:56:47.080 --> 0:56:49.640 I guess a very unique experience of is going through 0:56:49.680 --> 0:56:52.400 three probates now with clients. We've been doing this for 0:56:52.920 --> 0:56:55.120 the family office side of things for the last eight years. 0:56:55.560 --> 0:56:58.880 We've sadly had three of our clients pass away. But 0:56:59.160 --> 0:57:03.160 I can tell you and something I'm very proud of 0:57:03.200 --> 0:57:06.759 that with the collaborative security protocol that we implemented for them, 0:57:07.120 --> 0:57:09.840 they were self custing, they had full control, full autonomy. 0:57:10.280 --> 0:57:12.919 But when that day came that they were no longer here, 0:57:13.239 --> 0:57:16.240 there was a seamless transition to their beneficiaries. And this 0:57:16.440 --> 0:57:19.360 is where when you start storing significant amounts of wealth 0:57:19.520 --> 0:57:23.640 in bitcoin, this becomes a significant issue that needs solving. 0:57:23.880 --> 0:57:26.200 And so the way we get round. That is to 0:57:26.840 --> 0:57:30.720 have a collaborative security protocol. We hold one off the 0:57:30.720 --> 0:57:32.800 three keys for the client. The client holds a key 0:57:32.840 --> 0:57:35.680 and the multi sea provider holds a key, and then 0:57:35.880 --> 0:57:39.120 couple that with advice, training and education around how to 0:57:39.160 --> 0:57:43.080 actually move and use that bitcoin. And one of the 0:57:43.120 --> 0:57:45.360 key pieces that I think is really important for anyone 0:57:45.400 --> 0:57:48.640 with a bitcoin setup is to have an estate planned 0:57:48.640 --> 0:57:52.880 protocol dedicated to the physical recovery if your bitcoin, because 0:57:53.040 --> 0:57:56.400 if you don't have that in place, there's no legal recourse, 0:57:56.440 --> 0:57:59.400 there's no mandate, no legal decree that the government can 0:57:59.440 --> 0:58:03.200 mandate the transfer of your bitcoin from the protocol to 0:58:03.280 --> 0:58:06.280 your as So unless you have the pragmatic recovery of 0:58:06.320 --> 0:58:10.560 your bitcoin lockdown, the legal framework for the recovery is 0:58:10.560 --> 0:58:11.400 a bit point. 0:58:12.440 --> 0:58:16.200 So collaborative custody. So instead of having one single key, 0:58:16.240 --> 0:58:18.440 I have three keys. Two of the three have to 0:58:18.480 --> 0:58:20.880 be present to sign the transaction to move the bitcoin. 0:58:21.520 --> 0:58:24.360 But in a collaborative custody I don't keep all three keys. 0:58:24.400 --> 0:58:26.840 I only keep one of them, and I use other people, 0:58:26.920 --> 0:58:30.160 for example your company and another company to hold those keys. 0:58:30.440 --> 0:58:33.560 So then if I were to die or lose my key, 0:58:33.760 --> 0:58:37.320 hopefully the other two people have their keys correct, or 0:58:37.320 --> 0:58:38.960 if something happens to one of them, hopefully the other 0:58:38.960 --> 0:58:40.920 two parties have the keys correct. That's kind of the 0:58:40.920 --> 0:58:43.200 way it works. And then if I were to die, 0:58:43.320 --> 0:58:46.040 then my trust or whatever my will could then say, hey, 0:58:46.040 --> 0:58:48.960 these two people need to sign the transaction to move 0:58:49.000 --> 0:58:49.480 the bitcoin. 0:58:49.640 --> 0:58:52.760 Correct. And when you're dealing with large amounts of wealth, 0:58:53.200 --> 0:58:56.440 the beautiful thing about that setup is is that you 0:58:56.480 --> 0:59:00.240 can create some very strong asset protection strategies. I know, 0:59:00.280 --> 0:59:03.320 we're in the US and your legal system is out 0:59:03.360 --> 0:59:07.400 of control when it comes to litigation. Having keys in 0:59:07.440 --> 0:59:10.960 different jurisdictions gives you the strongest form of asset protection 0:59:11.360 --> 0:59:13.720 that you could ever have, because all of a sudden, 0:59:13.800 --> 0:59:17.000 now there are multiple different legal jurisdictions that if someone 0:59:17.160 --> 0:59:19.880 was to ever litigate you, they need to go to 0:59:19.880 --> 0:59:22.760 different jurisdictions in order to access that coin. Are that 0:59:22.880 --> 0:59:25.920 key and ask that to sign a transaction to move 0:59:25.960 --> 0:59:28.160 the bitcoin to where it needs to be so for 0:59:28.240 --> 0:59:30.040 me moving forward, And this is just one of the 0:59:30.080 --> 0:59:33.880 other reasons why bitcoin is the ultimate asset when it 0:59:33.880 --> 0:59:37.120 comes to intergenerational wealth. This is something that can't be 0:59:37.160 --> 0:59:38.240 done with any other asset. 0:59:38.440 --> 0:59:40.080 Yeah, yeah, amazing. 0:59:40.760 --> 0:59:42.720 All right, Peter, I think we've gone over a lot. 0:59:42.760 --> 0:59:45.720 That's some good information. I want to link down to 0:59:45.880 --> 0:59:47.880 your services down below. If anybody wants to talk to 0:59:47.920 --> 0:59:50.520 you about that, Lintha, anything else that you should want 0:59:50.520 --> 0:59:52.280 to point attention to, or that you want to kind 0:59:52.280 --> 0:59:52.920 of close it out with. 0:59:53.720 --> 0:59:55.760 I think it's just an important time if you're not 0:59:55.800 --> 0:59:58.080 in bitcoin, to get into bitcoin as quickly as possible. 0:59:58.080 --> 1:00:01.160 We've got some exciting things that are to fruition, much 1:00:01.160 --> 1:00:03.640 of which we talked about today, And if you need 1:00:03.680 --> 1:00:07.000 help getting getting started, reach out to the team. We'd 1:00:07.000 --> 1:00:08.000 love to help great. 1:00:08.080 --> 1:00:09.480 Thanks so much for appreciate it. 1:00:09.520 --> 1:00:09.920 Thanks Mat