1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is the production of I Heart Radio High 2 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 1: Family Secrets Listeners. It's Danny again. I hope you found 3 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: the special bonus episode with Dr Bessel vander Kolk helpful, illuminating, 4 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: even soothing. It's so important to recognize that we're all 5 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: in this together and that it's hard, and that it's 6 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,480 Speaker 1: okay to admit that it's hard. The more we tell 7 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: the truth of ourselves and our lives, the better off 8 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: will be when we're on the other side of this, 9 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 1: and we will be on the other side of this. 10 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 1: Here's the portion of the evening in which the audience 11 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:48,480 Speaker 1: at the Music Hall in Portsmouth, New Hampshire asked questions. Oh, 12 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: and stay tuned for more great bonus content as we 13 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: work on the fourth season of Family Secrets, which will 14 00:00:54,920 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: launch in October. I can't wait, all right, I think 15 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: I'm going to open it up to some questions here 16 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: because we have a nice pile of them. Okay, we 17 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: are a group of almost twenty half siblings that just 18 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: found out within the past two years about each other. 19 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: Through twenty three. In me, it has been a most 20 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 1: positive experience for most How often do you hear positive stories? 21 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: I hear positive stories really quite often, UM, I also 22 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: fear hear painful, difficult stories. I think one of the 23 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: things that's so complex about this moment of time that 24 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: we're in where so many of these stories are pouring out, 25 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: is that there's no template. There are no rules, there's 26 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: no playbook, there's no one size fits all and um, 27 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: but I think what it has to do with a 28 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: lot is some combination of the n fable, like where 29 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: people are in their lives and whether they're kind of 30 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: open and able to incorporate a staggering new reality. I mean, 31 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: for those of you who have not had this experience, 32 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: imagine waking up one day and finding out that you 33 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: have twenty half siblings. It's a shocking, stunning thing, and 34 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: very often, UM, the initial response is, in my experience, 35 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: just anecdotally, very the initial response is to feel threatened 36 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: and what do you mean and overwhelmed, and there's a 37 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: I think a very human, primitive primal um a feeling 38 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: of like the other, the interloper, the stranger. I mean, 39 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: you know, see the Bible, it's full of that kind 40 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: of stuff. But then moving past that, when I'm seeing 41 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: is that more and more people are um inclined to 42 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: be kind to each other, because this is so clearly 43 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: of a kind of epidemic proportion, because of the sheer 44 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: numbers of DNA tests that are being taken and the 45 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: numbers of people who are making these discoveries. It's hundreds 46 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: of thousands of people a year. UM. And so I've 47 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,399 Speaker 1: spoken a lot of bioethics programs around the country, and 48 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 1: one of the things that I've come to is like, 49 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: when people say, what do you think it boils down to, 50 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: it turns out that it's a it's an ethical term kindness. 51 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: Can we treat each other with kindness? And even if 52 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: this is, you know, not the story we wanted, it's 53 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: the story we got. And um, even if you know 54 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: people were promised anonymity, you know fifty sixty years ago, 55 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: forty years ago, science changed things, and what are we 56 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: going to do now? Um? You know with this new um, 57 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: you know this new information that we have. UM. But yes, 58 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: I mean I meant I have. But I have a friend, 59 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: a good friend who I've made in the last few years, 60 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: who discovered she was donor conceived, and she's discovered half siblings. 61 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: This is happening all the time, And UM, I think 62 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: it's utterly, utterly wonderful that UM, that that that you're 63 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: able to know each other and be with each other. I, 64 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: by the way, and this is probably a question that's 65 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 1: even in the pile. I am the only donor conceived 66 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: person I know who has discovered absolutely zero half siblings. 67 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: It's like I'm an outlier. I'm I was an only child. 68 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: Then I'm I'm only like whatever this thing is, I'm that. 69 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:44,359 Speaker 1: But my reaction is, UM, that we should know, we 70 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: should learn from you guys, and that I hope you 71 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: can find a way of chronically what you're what you're doing, 72 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: and maybe set up a collective depository of your thoughts. 73 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: It might create some tensions between all of you, but 74 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: be very interesting to hear about the processes, like I 75 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: think the world would love to hear that. Um. Another 76 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: option thinking of is to get a singer songwriter like 77 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 1: where Gauthier, who herself is adopted and has quite a 78 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: story that who does songwriting with people, and she goes 79 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: with a groups of people in writes songs about that 80 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: connective experience and everybody chips in their own lyrics and 81 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: together to make a song about experience. But something that 82 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: serves that symbolizes and collect what this process is like 83 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: discovery and illuminates it because there is very very little 84 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: in the way of studies, surveys research about this world 85 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: because it was a secret world, so it couldn't be 86 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: studied because it wasn't known. And now there are so 87 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: many people who don't have a lot of guide posts. 88 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 1: I mean, they're turning to my book because it illuminates 89 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: or reflects to them their own internal experiences. But like 90 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: my son as a podcast called Love and Radio, and 91 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: he had an episode where two siblings discovered they have 92 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: a half sibling and they are excited about it, and 93 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: it turns out he was a psychopath who tries to 94 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: take advantage of them, and then they talk about it 95 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: more of the lammas that comes up with that, So 96 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: it's never complicated. It's really good to really see what 97 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: the variations on the steamer. So this one's for you. Bessel. 98 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: I would say, Um, I'm very concerned about the magnitude 99 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: of large t trauma being created e g. Immigration trauma 100 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: inflicted at the border and all that entails. Any suggestions 101 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: on how we can counteract that, you know, one reaction 102 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: I have about what's happening to the border is that. 103 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: Unfortunately it's the extreme, but it's likely that in your 104 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: own town or onetown across, kids are being based in 105 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: situations that are not all that much better. I think 106 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: what's happening in the border is a war crime and 107 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: people should be punished like war criminals for doing what 108 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: they're doing. We know exactly what happens to kids who 109 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: are being treated like that, and it's torture and these 110 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: kids will never recover from it, and it's horrendous and 111 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: it's unbelievable that is happening in our country. Knowing as 112 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: we know what we're doing, it's inexcuse him. We'll be 113 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: back in a moment with more family secrets. Here's an 114 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: interesting question as well with early childhood trauma. Can't association 115 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: and lead to repression of all the bad as a 116 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: child seeks to be perfect, only to shockingly resurface fifty 117 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: years later when we traumatized with dissociation reappearing as memories resurface. 118 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: If so candidate associations stopped, well, that's that's a classical situation. 119 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: You know. There's hinted that in your book. Also, we 120 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: all like to believe that we were raised in happy 121 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: families because we all believe we're responsible for the families 122 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: were raised in. So if our family is violent, we 123 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,079 Speaker 1: didn't want to hide it from ourselves and from my 124 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: consciousness and certainly from other people. Know. I'm not going 125 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 1: to tell you what my family that that's crazy, because 126 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: on way you'll think badly about me. It's very important 127 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 1: for us to keep it happy face, and the association 128 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: was curious what you think about it? To some degree 129 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 1: is a good thing. Is the larger to survive, and 130 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: so uh very common that people just split off part 131 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: of it and say it's not happening. We've met many 132 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: people who were sexually abused who don't remember the abuse 133 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: from the night before, go to school, happy, go lucky, 134 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: go back. The same thing happens during the day. They 135 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: are completely different people, and they grow up, and at 136 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: some point something happens and the whole stuff starts shutting 137 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: back along the lines of would happened to you, but 138 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: much more, much worse even, and then you think you're 139 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: going crazy and all the stuff started flying flying back, 140 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 1: And I hope at that point you find somebody who 141 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: can hold you and to continue, which again you write 142 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 1: beautifully in your book, how beautifully your husband also really 143 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 1: was there for you, really extraordinary. At at that point, 144 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: we need somebody to help us and not to label 145 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: us and say you're crazy take drugs, which you will 146 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,839 Speaker 1: almost certainly do when you've got a psychiatrist. But what 147 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: you can say, let's find a safe place for you 148 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: to be hold you calm yourself down. And unfortunately there's 149 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: not enough places like that that I can think that 150 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: people can go. And that's why you know, an your 151 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: conference this year, um, I'm going to really we have 152 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: a bunch of people who do have set up peer 153 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: support systems, and I think what we need more and 154 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: more is peer support systems of people who are there 155 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: for each other, like that group who just said we're 156 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: lunching people from the say who have siblings. I think 157 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: it's very important that we moved towards de professionalizing this 158 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,839 Speaker 1: and not making it dependent on insurance companies are really 159 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: for people to make a commitment to helping each other. 160 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: You know where I learned that in China. I was 161 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: musically invited to spend a month in China and with 162 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: a group of people of professional women, about a thousand 163 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: professional women who have peer support systems. They get together 164 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: once a week and they get to weather once a month. 165 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: It's a larger group of people, and they have conferences 166 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: at meetings, and they have a mific system of just 167 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: people being there for each other and getting help to 168 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: be there for each other. So we're going to port 169 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: yet another thing from China. We'll be back in a 170 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: moment with more family secrets. And this one's for me. 171 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: Should I read the other memoirs reverse order or start 172 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 1: at the beginning? That's funny. I was. I was afraid 173 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: with Inheritance that would that no one would ever read 174 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: any of my earlier memoirs now because I was wrong. Um, 175 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: but that's not that's not actually what's happening at all. 176 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: It's really interesting. I have no opinion about the order. 177 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 1: I think you could move backwards in time. Um. I 178 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: mean essentially from my first memoir, Slow Motion, all the 179 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: way through Inheritance. It's one body of work. I understand 180 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: that now there should be like a box set of them, 181 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: because it's it's you know, it's it's thirty two year 182 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: old Danny looking back at twenty three year old Danny, 183 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: and then it's you know, young mom Danny with her 184 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: spiritual existential crisis, and then it's you know, married Danny, 185 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: thinking about marriage and walking along another person over time. Um. 186 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: But in a way, what I was exploring was always 187 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: coming back to. I Mean, one of the things I 188 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: always say to my students is theme is just a 189 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: fancy literary term for obsession, and we don't choose what 190 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: obsesses us. And what obsessed me was understanding my dad. 191 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 1: I suppose, understanding my mom, but that became more diagnostic 192 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: than anything. I mean, understanding my dad in terms of 193 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: like what was his sorrow, what was his pain? What 194 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: made him him? Um? And it's there through all of 195 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: my books. My aunt Shirley, my father's younger sister, called 196 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: me when she had read Devotion, which I was afraid 197 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 1: she would find painful because there's a lot in there 198 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: about how I didn't feel like I belonged in my 199 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: family even then. And she said she was crying when 200 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: she called me, and she said, it's like a cottage 201 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: for your father. Umcottish meaning like a um, like a prayer. Uh, 202 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a it's an omad, it's an offering. 203 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,479 Speaker 1: And all my work was in some way that UM. 204 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 1: So in a way I think reading them is just 205 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: it's kind of read reading a life, reading a life 206 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,319 Speaker 1: in which something wasn't known that that was known later 207 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: that was being informed by There's a phrase that I 208 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: use that I mentioned to you, UM, a psychoanalytic phrase 209 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: that the psychoanalyst Christopher Bolas used and has written about um, 210 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: the unthought known UM, which I kept thinking about while 211 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: I was reading The Body keeps the score. You know, 212 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: we we are driven in so many ways by what 213 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: we no but can't bring ourselves to think. When you 214 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: talk about, you know, the gut instinct, or the way 215 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: that the body keeps the score, the way the way 216 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: that the body reveals to us what we are, what 217 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: we can't reveal to ourselves if you allow it, if 218 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: you allow yourself to listen, if you allow yourself to 219 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: even be in a position to feel it. Yeah, okay, 220 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: But in terms of the box set, you know, after 221 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: after people see King Lear, they don't go like, okay, 222 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: I've seen Shakespeare, that's enough, and they went went back 223 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: to the same things over and over again. So I 224 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: think reading several boks might be useful. M How did 225 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: you I guess this probably could be for either of us, 226 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: how how did you overcome your own trauma in its 227 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: physical manifestations? How to is how did it manifest or 228 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: show up for you? So I can say a couple 229 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: of things about that, because writing about trauma's really hard. 230 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: Writing about physical sensation is like one of the banes 231 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: for writers. I mean, how many ways? Because can your 232 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: heart pound or your palms sweat, or you know your 233 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: stomach drop or you know your fingers tingle. There's like 234 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: it's too easy to enter the realm of you know, 235 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: cliche in some way. Um time, I mean in part time. Um, 236 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: I really was dizzy for a year. UM and I 237 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: stopped having a relationship with my own But I've I've 238 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: had a yoga practice. Since I stopped practicing yoga, I 239 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: would unroll my mat and the body that had been 240 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: on that matt no longer felt like the body that 241 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: was now. I mean it was the strangest feeling of 242 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: like I'm still the same person, but my understanding of 243 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: about myself is so alter it and um and so 244 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: I that drifted away from me and I'm still struggling 245 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: to get back to it. Um Meditation was tremendous for me. 246 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: I have an app called insight timer that some of 247 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: you may know. That is for me a very valuable 248 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: tool because it keeps me accountable I have I think 249 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: it's a hundred and seventy eight days today and I 250 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: don't want to break my streak. It gives you like 251 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: a little gives you a little gold star every time 252 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: you finish your it. Lets you know it's circles the 253 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: day of the week and you know, so even if 254 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: it's a day where you think, oh my god, I 255 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: just don't have time. Yeah. Um, so that that that 256 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: space that um. But more than anything else, I mean, 257 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: I'm curious what would you would what would you say? Uh? 258 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: As for me that the body's pieces very important. I'm 259 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: very much into the rear mammals and there's a lot 260 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: of stuff in my field about it used to so 261 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: mammals need to feel safe without mammals and the way 262 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 1: my Steven Fancive reports, she says, if you want to 263 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: know but mammals, to go to a pet store and 264 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: look at what poppies do. They chase each other, the 265 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: line top with each other. There's love on each other, 266 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: and so that part of us needs to come to life. 267 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: Very basic bodies that like be with other bodies, and 268 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: as long as that doesn't work, everything else it's difficult. Um. 269 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: In terms of specific things that I found for me 270 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: very helpful is visiting yourself back then and seeing what 271 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: that kid went through. And we tend to sort of 272 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: have contempt for ourselves as her kids and say, oh, 273 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: he was so weak, he didn't stand up for himself, 274 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: he wasn't tough enough. Um, she was so compliant or something, 275 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: and so you really have to get itself intred for 276 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: how you behave back then and really going there and 277 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 1: seeing what that kid went through, and if you had 278 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: known then or had been as big then as you 279 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 1: are now, you would not tolerated that. But at that point, 280 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 1: you're gonna this kid had no choice but to behave 281 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: like that, and to really the big thing that comes 282 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: up more and more is this issue issue of self compassion, 283 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 1: which I also see in your podcasts that have a 284 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 1: deep love for what that kid back there had to 285 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 1: go through and put up with. And it's not because 286 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: she was crazy or stupid. She was just trying to survive. 287 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: And to really know, like, boy, if I had known 288 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 1: them what I know now, nobody would have gotten away 289 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 1: with UM and the other thing that you mentioned it 290 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: to complicate to explain is our the psycho drama I 291 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 1: learned from Albessa of re creating the real scene of 292 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 1: it happened back then and then creating in three dimensional 293 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:13,360 Speaker 1: space and ideal seen where somebody says to you, if 294 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: I'd been your dad, I would have been a drinker. 295 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 1: You could have been proud of me. I would have 296 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: come home with my uniform as a policeman and you 297 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: will say, wow, my dad looks great. It wouldn't have 298 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: been needed to be afraid that I was going to 299 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: drink and beat you up lay one the night. And 300 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: so you you create three dimensionals structures as we call it, 301 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 1: where you create new realities. And it's astounding to me 302 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: how I've never brought somebody who tough people growing up, 303 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: people who say, oh it is not real. People always like, 304 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 1: oh my god, if that had happened, but it's three 305 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: years old, my whole life would have been different than 306 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: people really gets new reality instill this is out of them, 307 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: so they start living in a different map of themselves 308 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 1: that the map that has determined how they live. And 309 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: is that in part because it is being placed in 310 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: three dimensions? I think it's really dimension the critical thing. 311 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: And you have people around you who enact like if 312 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: I said you, if you said me, choose somebody over 313 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,719 Speaker 1: there to be your mom, and I said, okay, well 314 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: you beat my mom and you said to me, where 315 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: would you like to mount your mom to be? Said 316 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 1: you should be right there, a little bit further back, 317 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 1: turn a little bit slump over. Yeah, and there's something 318 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: in your right brain that's a spatial brain, is not 319 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 1: logical and not time determined, that has an internal image 320 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: of who people are. And then you bring other people 321 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 1: and said, oh my god, that's but my internal world 322 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: looks like when I said, it's three dimensional space. And 323 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 1: then you can start moving it up. It's amazing. I'm 324 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: still started by it. Yeah, that's beautiful. I think we 325 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 1: are out of time and that's a beautiful place to 326 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:09,959 Speaker 1: to end. Best all, I want to thank you so 327 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: much for this conversation and thank you all for coming. 328 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 1: So thank you. Go to come. For more podcasts for 329 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, 330 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.