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Speaker 1: Bodybacks with Joseph Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 2: A few years ago, I went out to Hollywood for

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Speaker 2: actually the first time. I think I was actually I

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Speaker 2: never can tell where the line of demarcation is. I

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Speaker 2: think I was probably in Beverly Hills and I had

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Speaker 2: to go to a meeting, right I had to go

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Speaker 2: to this meeting with this hot shot agent guy that

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Speaker 2: was working on a show. And everybody in Hollywood's got

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Speaker 2: a new idea. They've all got a new idea, and

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Speaker 2: they if they think you're right for it, they want

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Speaker 2: to get you to participate in it. So I was

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Speaker 2: out there and I was thinking, Wow, this is It's

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Speaker 2: kind of cool, but it's a it's an odd world.

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Speaker 2: It's different, you know, it's it seems almost synthetic, and

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of it is. But you know,

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Speaker 2: what goes on behind the back doors and all these

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Speaker 2: deals and everything's completely different than you know, the individuals

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Speaker 2: that you see appear on screen, either the big screen

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Speaker 2: or a small screen. Can you imagine having a phone

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Speaker 2: conversation with the likes of George Clooney or maybe Whoopy

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Speaker 2: Goldberg or Dolly Pardon And it's kind of your norm,

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Speaker 2: you know, to be in that world. But for those

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Speaker 2: of us that, you know, just kind of live in

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Speaker 2: flow over country, it's a completely different take that we

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Speaker 2: have today. I want to talk about a man who

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Speaker 2: lived in that world and about his son who arguably,

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Speaker 2: arguably perhaps perpetrated a mass homicide. We're going to have

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Speaker 2: a conversation today about what Sam Haskell the fourth allegedly did.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Backs. I'm

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Speaker 2: here with my buddy Dave mac Dave. You get out

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Speaker 2: there in the in the thin air with with some

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Speaker 2: of these people, and I don't know. I guess there's

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Speaker 2: a there's kind of an idea that you you have

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Speaker 2: moral license maybe to do anything you want to that

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Speaker 2: you know laws don't apply to you. We've heard that

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Speaker 2: over and I mean, how many times have we heard that? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the entitled people, I think I remember back, and I

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Speaker 2: know I'll catch some grief over this, but I remember, Uh,

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Speaker 2: what's what's her name? That? Uh? The young actress from

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Speaker 2: Little Blonde. She was legally blonde, I think, and uh Witherspoon,

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Speaker 2: and she got she got pulled over in Atlanta few

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Speaker 2: years ago with her husband and she did the whole

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Speaker 2: thing where she jumped out of the car and looked

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Speaker 2: at a Georgia State trooper and said, don't you know

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Speaker 2: who I am? And I'm thinking he's thinking I might

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Speaker 2: not right now, but I will in a minute. You're

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Speaker 2: going to know who I am too. You know. It's

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Speaker 2: it's when that the fantasy world kind of catches up,

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Speaker 2: you know, with the reality of the real world that

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Speaker 2: we all kind of exist in. And I don't know,

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Speaker 2: maybe that extends out to this family that we're talking

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Speaker 2: about today, SAMs what remains of a family?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 3: Sam Haskell the third is the super agent who was

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Speaker 3: Dolly Parton and George Clooney's management when he was he

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Speaker 3: was working at the William Morris Agency. Sam Haskell the

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Speaker 3: third was, but his son, Sam Haskell the Fourth is

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Speaker 3: the murderer, or the alleged murderer. Sam Haskell the Fourth

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Speaker 3: is at the very center of a story that began

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Speaker 3: for most of us when a homeless guy out in

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Speaker 3: la is digging through a dumpster at six fifteen in

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Speaker 3: the morning in Encino and he comes across the headless

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Speaker 3: body a torso. Now the guy's looking for some old

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Speaker 3: food to eat, right getting his breakfast out of the

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Speaker 3: dumpster and finds a body or a headless body and

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Speaker 3: calls the cops. That's where most of us started with

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Speaker 3: the story because TMZ and a few other websites like

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Speaker 3: that had video going up of this poor guy. Can

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Speaker 3: you imagine what he's going through to this day, Joe,

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Speaker 3: a homeless guy.

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Speaker 2: Here's something from a death investigator's perspective. It's really amazing.

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Speaker 2: And I had this happen a number of times over

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Speaker 2: the course of my career. When you get out there

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Speaker 2: and we generally there's a term that we use in

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Speaker 2: our descriptor of people that initially lay eyes on the body,

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Speaker 2: and we will call them the finder, and that's in

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Speaker 2: our vernacular so that when we communicate with either other investigat, detectives,

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Speaker 2: maybe the dock whoever it is, even the crime lab,

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Speaker 2: will say, well, this is a sample from the finder,

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Speaker 2: and they automatically they understand what that means. And also

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Speaker 2: to kind of emphasize this, this is a found death.

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Speaker 2: This is not something that was witnessed per se. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: this guy, I've actually had people. I had a lady

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Speaker 2: one time that found a guy hanging nude in his

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Speaker 2: motel room by a dog. Collar, and he was involved

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Speaker 2: in autoroticism. And she, Dave, she was she probably she

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Speaker 2: may have been five foot tall, weighed about ninety pounds,

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Speaker 2: and I'll never forget. She was from Guatemala. And this

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Speaker 2: poor lady could not speak English. She was a housekeeper

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Speaker 2: and she had the pass key to the door of

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Speaker 2: obviously to the room. She didn't get an answer when

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Speaker 2: she knocked on. She opens the door and the bathroom

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Speaker 2: is immediately to the left and he's hanging from the

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Speaker 2: hinge by dog collar of the bathroom, fully naked, and Dave,

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Speaker 2: she was trembling on the floor. And I'll never forget.

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Speaker 2: This little lady had her rosary beads in her in

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Speaker 2: her hands and she was praying and she was she

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Speaker 2: couldn't stop trembling. So yeah, and it impacts people. I mean,

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Speaker 2: who goes about their daily routine. Even if this guy

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Speaker 2: is a homeless guy, he's living his life.

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Speaker 1: Man, he's looking for something to eat.

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Speaker 3: It's six fifteen in the morning, Joe, And why this guy's.

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Speaker 1: Not I hope somebody's helping him. That's all.

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Speaker 3: But to move on to the story. The story began

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Speaker 3: there the video up online TMZ and all of the

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Speaker 3: other websites, because anything in Hollywood takes on the added

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Speaker 3: glare of Hollywood and in Sino and where it tracked

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Speaker 3: back because according to police, once they got to the dumpster,

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Speaker 3: they found the headless body, they found this torso, but

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Speaker 3: there was other evidence. There were other clues inside the

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Speaker 3: bag that contained this torso And it was the clues

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Speaker 3: inside the bag that they still haven't told us what

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Speaker 3: they found. It will come out of trial, but it

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Speaker 3: led them straight back to Sam Haskell, the fourth. This family,

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Speaker 3: the Haskell family, is living in a six bedroom home

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Speaker 3: in Tarzana. He's living there with his wife, who, by

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Speaker 3: the way, is missing, and her mom and dad they're

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Speaker 3: both missing. And then they have three boys, six, eight

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Speaker 3: and twelve. They are not missing, they're accounted for and

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Speaker 3: they're now living with family other family. But Sam Haskell

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Speaker 3: the Fourth's wife and her parents, his in laws, all missing.

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Speaker 3: And that's where this crime begins. The investigation begins there

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Speaker 3: with the torso and the dumpster being found by a

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Speaker 3: homeless guy six fifteen in the morning on a Wednesday.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a big home that they have. They

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Speaker 2: have six bedrooms. Man, I can only imagine what that

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Speaker 2: would set you back, even in Tarzana, which here was

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Speaker 2: a fine town.

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Speaker 3: Well you got Tarzania and Sino in all of the

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Speaker 3: valley I mean. And by the way, this is the

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Speaker 3: area of the first Karate Kid movie. To give you

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Speaker 3: an idea, right right, yeah, where Ralph Macchio when there?

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Speaker 3: I think they were in Encino on the Tarzana side,

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Speaker 3: But it wasn't like it is now. Okay, everything there

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Speaker 3: has gotten bigger and better. But something that they found

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Speaker 3: in that bag led them back to the house. But

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Speaker 3: here's the other kicker, Joe. The night before the body

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Speaker 3: was found at four o'clock in the afternoon, a group

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Speaker 3: of Hispanic men were paid five hundred dollars by a

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Speaker 3: guy to take some rocks, three bags of rocks and

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Speaker 3: just get rid of them. Paid them five hundred dollars. Now,

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Speaker 3: I don't know about you. Somebody offers me five hundred

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Speaker 3: dollars to get rid of three bags of rocks. I'm

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Speaker 3: your guy, I'm your huckleberry. The thing is, these Hispanic

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Speaker 3: day workers, they didn't think the bags felt like they

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Speaker 3: had rocks in them. And they're like a block away

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Speaker 3: from the house and they decide we're looking. They open

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Speaker 3: it up and they opened one of the bags and

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Speaker 3: what do they find? A belly button? They see a

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Speaker 3: belly button and that was enough seal it back up.

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Speaker 3: There were not rocks in these bags. It felt like

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Speaker 3: they were carrying meat. And they reach about fifty pounds

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Speaker 3: a bag. They take it right back to Sam Haskell

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Speaker 3: the Fourth's house, that's who hired them to move them.

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Speaker 1: They put them in the driveway.

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Speaker 3: And he says, oh, you're mistaken that these are just

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Speaker 3: halloween things. Nah, I don't worry about what it is,

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Speaker 3: but these guys are freaked out, Joe. They immediately leave

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Speaker 3: Sam Haskell the Fourth's home in Tarzana and head straight

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Speaker 3: to the first police station they can see. Meanwhile, seven

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Speaker 3: minutes after they leave, Sam Haskell the fourth has loaded

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Speaker 3: a bag into his car and he takes off.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 3: And the reason I bring this up now is because

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Speaker 3: the Hispanic men go to the first place they saw

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Speaker 3: that had police signs on it, right is the Highway Patrol, though,

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Speaker 3: and the California Highway Patrol is not a city police

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Speaker 3: department that would handle Tarzana.

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Speaker 1: And that's what they were told. Go someplace else.

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Speaker 3: None of them spoke English as a first language, so

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Speaker 3: there was a communication problem. They end up going to

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Speaker 3: another police station, and it's kind of a comedy of

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Speaker 3: errors as they're doing this thing, because they go inside

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Speaker 3: this police station in the entry area and they're trying

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Speaker 3: to explain what they have found to make the report,

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Speaker 3: and they're at the Banga station and the police on

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Speaker 3: the instead of going we don't nobody in here speak Spanish.

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Speaker 1: Go outside?

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Speaker 2: How is that possible in.

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Speaker 3: In La it Yeah, that's what actually did surprise me.

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Speaker 3: But a lot has been made about this. When they

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Speaker 3: said get out of here, go outside and call nine

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Speaker 3: one one, that's not what happened. There was nobody that

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Speaker 3: spoke Spanish in the building that could take the report.

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Speaker 3: But knowing if they would go outside and call nine

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Speaker 3: one one, they could get a Spanish speaking operator and

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Speaker 3: then they could make their that's why that'll happen.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: Granted, there's been a big investigation that is still not

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Speaker 3: completed on this yet to troubleshoot what happens when somebody

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Speaker 3: comes in to file like a dead body claim, body

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Speaker 3: parts claim, blood claims, And you know what if the

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Speaker 3: guys didn't go outside and called nine one one, Joe,

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Speaker 3: what if they went outside and just left.

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Speaker 2: No, yeah, yeah, no, kidd, And keep in mind, uh

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Speaker 2: Sam Haskell, the fourth's children are still alive.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: Let that sink in just for a second. If there is,

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Speaker 2: If in fact he is involved in this and he

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Speaker 2: committed these crimes, how do you know that there would

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Speaker 2: not be another moment in time that would set him off.

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Speaker 2: And now, because you've kind of showed them away, those

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Speaker 2: kids get in jeopardy. I think they're in jeopardy anyway,

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Speaker 2: but you know, you just kind of kind of up

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Speaker 2: the antie. But back to the topainga station. I've got

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Speaker 2: a solution for it. It's pretty easy. How are people

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Speaker 2: that speak Spanish? That's that's pretty easy. You know, that's

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Speaker 2: kind of simple. But you know, that's a discussion for

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Speaker 2: another day. I find it. Yeah, no, And I'm wondering

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Speaker 2: with Okay, with their movement of these bags, okay, that

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Speaker 2: is the workers, I'm wondering how much cross contamination there

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Speaker 2: might be from them? What did they do? Were the

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Speaker 2: bags tied? Because if they're tied, that's in a very

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Speaker 2: specific configuration that is unique. It's not as unique as

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Speaker 2: like handwriting, but it is unique as to how people

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Speaker 2: tie the bags.

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Speaker 1: If it's a real.

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Speaker 2: Complex knot or whether it's a simple knot. And who

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Speaker 2: in the world uses bags to move rocks? Now? I

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Speaker 2: see commercials on television where they say, well, this bag

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Speaker 2: can carry anything, But who in their right mind actually

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Speaker 2: decides you, I'm going to put a bunch of rocks

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Speaker 2: in a bag, a plastic bag. Most of the time

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Speaker 2: when you use plastic bags, just for instance. And I'm

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Speaker 2: not diminishing deaths here, but just understand it from a

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Speaker 2: biological standpoint. We have plastic bags in our home, in

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Speaker 2: our garbage cans, right. The reason we do that is

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Speaker 2: that they are non porous, they're non poorous, because we

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Speaker 2: don't want all of the nastiness that's in our home

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Speaker 2: after we're done cooking and all of that stuff. And

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Speaker 2: we put that and you know how it always kind

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Speaker 2: of gathers at the bottom, seeks the lowest point of gravity,

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Speaker 2: and Lord help you if you prick that bag and

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Speaker 2: it leaks everywhere, well, you know, if you have a torso.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna leak.

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Speaker 2: And I would think that whoever thought this thing through

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Speaker 2: didn't think it through quite enough, because it's very easy

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Speaker 2: to just feel the outside of a bag and tell

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Speaker 2: the difference between rocks and human remains. You've never worked

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Speaker 2: in a butcher's shop, You've never handled human remains. For

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Speaker 2: all I know, you might be terrified by the sight

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Speaker 2: of blood. But let's say your fury has driven you

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Speaker 2: to the point where you would begin to think about

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Speaker 2: killing someone that's in your orbit, and not just one person,

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Speaker 2: but three, And now you have to make a decision.

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Speaker 1: What am I going to do with him?

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Speaker 2: David, I think that that's a rather interesting position to

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Speaker 2: be in for the average person walking down the street.

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Speaker 2: Of course, the accused, the alleged perpetrator here is I

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Speaker 2: guess by the standards of us mere mortals out here,

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Speaker 2: he's not an average person. He has a lot of

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Speaker 2: resources at his disposal this sort of thing. Maybe he

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Speaker 2: thought that he could get away with this, but it

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Speaker 2: seems as though that the police have other ideas.

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Speaker 3: At this point, we know, Joe, there is a lot

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Speaker 3: going on with this story and inside the home and

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Speaker 3: fascinating and talking to or not me talking to, but

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Speaker 3: in researching this particular case. Sam Haskell fourth his wife.

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Speaker 3: Her name is may me Eia may Lee Haskell. She's

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Speaker 3: thirty seven. As we mentioned earlier, they have three boys

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Speaker 3: that are just wonderful children. From everything I'm hearing from

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Speaker 3: everybody's six, eight and twelve. But it's interesting that they

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Speaker 3: would entertain in their home, the Haskells would and the

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Speaker 3: neighbors would come over. But whenever that happened, it was

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Speaker 3: like may Lee Haskell was the reason people were there.

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Speaker 3: They just adored her, and Sam Haskell would become very withdrawn.

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Speaker 3: He would pull back to himself, and even if it

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Speaker 3: was in his own home, he acted like he was

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Speaker 3: not belonging.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: He loved his samurai sword collection too, and he liked

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Speaker 3: to show it off. He also had a bunch of guns,

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Speaker 3: like to show those off. But people could not understand

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Speaker 3: the connection because on the one hand, you had his wife,

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Speaker 3: may that everybody loves, and then you got this other

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Speaker 3: guy who seems really not all there. I mean, he

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Speaker 3: just is an indulgent or I don't know him, but

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Speaker 3: he sure does seem to be one of the individuals

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Speaker 3: who thinks because my dad was super rich and successful,

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Speaker 3: so am I I'm going to go into the family business.

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Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, your dad's a doctor, so you don't

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Speaker 3: need to go to law school. And my dad's a doctor.

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Speaker 3: I'm good. Sam Haskell the Fourth is thirty five, son

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Speaker 3: of Sam Haskell the third. When you look at Sam

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Speaker 3: Haskell the Fourth's resume, he has done a low budget

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Speaker 3: video film.

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Speaker 1: He did.

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Speaker 3: A program. I don't know if it was a film

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Speaker 3: or what. I saw a clip of it that had

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Speaker 3: Brandy Glanville. She's in that well used to be in

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Speaker 3: the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills and she had a

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Speaker 3: small part, and like it looked like a high school

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Speaker 3: teen drama type thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, So, but I've watched some TikTok videos that he posted,

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Speaker 3: and he just goes rambling, I mean Joe about things

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Speaker 3: that make no sense, talking about Hollywood stars and a

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Speaker 3: really entitled mess. And it's so funny to put him

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Speaker 3: over here on that side of what you see and

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Speaker 3: then what people talk about with his wife, and you

301
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Speaker 3: realize his beautiful thirty seven year old wife, the one

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Speaker 3: everybody loved, is missing along with her parents. We don't

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Speaker 3: know where they are.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and if it's this is another thing that I

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Speaker 2: kind of came across here in this tale, and it

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Speaker 2: gives you an idea about the family dynamic, mainly and

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Speaker 2: their children. Her and Haskell's children all resided there, but

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Speaker 2: also her parents. My understanding is is that their note

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Speaker 2: did you see what the what the cost was their

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Speaker 2: monthly note on that house is? And I seven thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars a month at it? Yeah, and she paid the note.

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Speaker 2: But that's think in yeah, not him. She paid the

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Speaker 2: note on that monthly, that that monthly when it would

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Speaker 2: come due for the mortgage. And so I found that

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Speaker 2: that that quite interesting. And friends had made comments, you know,

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Speaker 2: relative to that. So what you're looking for, I think,

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Speaker 2: is if you have these individuals where they are missing,

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Speaker 2: you have this odd family dynamic where he's you know,

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Speaker 2: he's he's now supposed to be the head of the household,

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Speaker 2: if you will. He's supposed to be a breadwinner, he's

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Speaker 2: supposed to be achieving, and your wife is actually bringing

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Speaker 2: home the bacon per se. And I would imagine that

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Speaker 2: he began And I hate people that say, well, it

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Speaker 2: made me feel this way. I'm sure that it's making

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Speaker 2: him feel somewhat diminished. And you begin to think about

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Speaker 2: a lot of cases that we work, it comes into

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Speaker 2: focus that anger, that little bit of anger, because what

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Speaker 2: we're talking about here is a mass slaying and we're

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Speaker 2: also talking about not just a slaying dave, but we're

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Speaker 2: talking about the abuse of a corpse, and that goes

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Speaker 2: to a completely different level when you begin to try

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Speaker 2: to consider what may have happened, how did it happen,

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Speaker 2: and is it possible that the em he can explain anything.

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Speaker 3: That's what I was going to ask you, because when

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Speaker 3: you start with the in this particular case, as I

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00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:59,439
Speaker 3: mentioned at the very beginning, the investigation did not just

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00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:01,640
Speaker 3: begin as six fifteen in the morning when a homeless

338
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,920
Speaker 3: guy finds a torso and a dumpster. It began from

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00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,359
Speaker 3: our standpoint of us hearing about it. But once that

340
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,920
Speaker 3: call was made, all of a sudden, the previous day's activities,

341
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,840
Speaker 3: all of a sudden made sense because it was the

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Speaker 3: day before about well actually fourteen hours earlier, at about

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Speaker 3: four o'clock in the afternoon, when Sam Haskell the Fourth

344
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,280
Speaker 3: hires a couple of Hispanic day workers, pays them five

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Speaker 3: hundred dollars to get rid of three bags of rocks.

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Speaker 3: They returned saying this, there's there's a belly button in

347
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,399
Speaker 3: here that this ain't rocks, and get They give him

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Speaker 3: the money back and leave the bags in the driveway.

349
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Speaker 3: And take off and go to the police. So you've

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Speaker 3: got that report being made after four o'clock the day

351
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Speaker 3: before the body is found, and the report it says

352
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Speaker 3: a neighbor called in until police they saw what appeared

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Speaker 3: to be body parts in Sam Haskell the Fourth's backyard

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Speaker 3: in his driveway, so police went out to look. By

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Speaker 3: the time they got there, Sam Haskell the fourth was

356
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 3: gone and they didn't see any sign of any bags

357
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,399
Speaker 3: or any body parts. So without having anything to go on,

358
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 3: they couldn't just reach the gate and go looking. They

359
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,919
Speaker 3: didn't have a search for it, so they couldn't go

360
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 3: any further, and they had no reason to investigate further.

361
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 3: Might have been a prank call, neighbor that doesn't like him.

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00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it could be. And you know, most of the time,

363
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 2: if you uh, this goes to something that that we

364
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 2: use in that that we talked about in in uh

365
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 2: UH in investigations. I think a lot of people don't

366
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,399
Speaker 2: understand this. But there's two there's two frameworks that you

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00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,439
Speaker 2: work under. If you're you have things that are in

368
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 2: plane view, it's called a plane view doctor. And if

369
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Speaker 2: you pull somebody over in a car and you look

370
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 2: in and there's a human hand laying on the seat,

371
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:53,959
Speaker 2: then that that provides you cause there's also another uh

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00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 2: another uh legal uh uh precedent that that was established

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Speaker 2: in called the open fields doctrine, and it's kind of

374
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,160
Speaker 2: the same thing, but it's like, if you don't have

375
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Speaker 2: to use something in order for you to view an area,

376
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Speaker 2: if you can plainly see it in an open area

377
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 2: of open fields doctrine, that will give the police probable cost.

378
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 2: And this is not a welfare check. You know, lots

379
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,920
Speaker 2: of times if cops are going out a welfare check,

380
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 2: they can force their way in if they think somebody

381
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,359
Speaker 2: is in danger at that point in time, you don't

382
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 2: have to go get a warrant at that point in time. Now,

383
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 2: once you've confirmed that they're there and they're deceased, then

384
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,199
Speaker 2: you have to back out. People don't understand that you

385
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 2: cannot stay in the house with the dead body, even

386
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 2: if it's a homicide. You have to go get a warrant.

387
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 2: So you secure the scene. You go get a warrant,

388
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 2: and then you come back and you work the scene.

389
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 2: You don't let anybody else into the house, but you

390
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 2: have to get a warrant before you enter back in

391
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:51,360
Speaker 2: and there's.

392
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 3: Even though you know the body's dead is sitting there

393
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:55,120
Speaker 3: and wow.

394
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 2: Or once you've established that there is no longer an

395
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 2: emerging situation, then.

396
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 3: Okay, So once you notice it's static, nothing's going to change, nothing's.

397
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 2: Going to change, and the police will set up a

398
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 2: perimeter at that point, and what you do. And I've

399
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 2: spent hours outside of a house. I actually actually had

400
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 2: a guy that was laying out of a threshold of

401
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 2: a house. He'd been shot in multiple times.

402
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 1: But we had to wait.

403
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 2: And it's in literally plain sight of the entire neighborhood.

404
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 2: Cameras are there, everything else, and there is a body

405
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 2: laying across the threshold that has obviously sprung several weeks.

406
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 1: Wow.

407
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 2: And we had to wait. I know, it took us

408
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 2: probably five hours day to get that warrant so that

409
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 2: we could make entry because the ADA for whatever reason,

410
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,719
Speaker 2: was not available. There wasn't a magistrate available. Wow. And

411
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 2: it's problematic, But listen, you would rather wait and be

412
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 2: safe because anything that you find, anything that you find

413
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 2: at that scene. Let's say that you have a headless corpse,

414
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,719
Speaker 2: all right, but if the head has been taken and

415
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 2: placed into the freezer, Okay, that's a that's a protected

416
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 2: hidden space without a warrant. The authorities don't have to

417
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,439
Speaker 2: have they don't have the legal backing to go in

418
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 2: and go digging through hidden spaces, okay, you know in

419
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 2: small areas, so they have to do that.

420
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 3: In the dumpster where the homeless guy finds the torso

421
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,440
Speaker 3: in a bag in the dumpster, I wanted to ask

422
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 3: you about it because that that's an open area accessible

423
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 3: to anybody.

424
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the law regards that as you no longer

425
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 2: caring about it, you've tossed it, so those constitutional protections

426
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:43,880
Speaker 2: from that perspective fade away. So if we we can

427
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 2: go around to any number of dumpsters that might be,

428
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 2: and I hope that they did to recover everything that

429
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 2: they would need to recover because that's essential here.

430
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 3: Well, it's fascinating how this worked out with people. I

431
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 3: don't want to say they were busy bodies, but somebody

432
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 3: saw a man in Alexis getting bags a bag out

433
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 3: of the back out of the trunk of his car

434
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 3: and took a picture of the car and its tag.

435
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,199
Speaker 3: And so the next day, when the body or the

436
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 3: torso is recovered out of the dumpster, the person who

437
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 3: took the picture, went hey, I maybe this will help

438
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 3: police and sends it to him and the detective on

439
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 3: the scene said this, and I highlighted this because I

440
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 3: needed to ask you, Joe. He was asked a question

441
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 3: in a press conference about the condition of the core

442
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 3: of the torsos. Do you still refer to it as

443
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 3: a corpse even though it's.

444
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 2: Not okay you can use corpse?

445
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, he said, quote just from visual inspection, the

446
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 3: stages of decomposition were relatively early, so no more than

447
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 3: a day or two about how long the body had

448
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 3: been dead, because we haven't established anything at this point.

449
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 3: They just have a dead part of a body, no head,

450
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 3: and that's what they have in this bag, and that's

451
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 3: where they have to now trace it back. But again,

452
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 3: they knew to go to Haskell's house whatever was inside.

453
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 2: That bag contained.

454
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if he left it.

455
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 3: And they're saying, catch me if you can, here's my name,

456
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 3: here's my address, because they went straight to his house or.

457
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 2: He dropped his wallet, you know, who knows, who knows

458
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 2: from that perspective, but yeah, maybe and you find this

459
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 2: and this is really difficult forensically, Dave, and I'm thinking

460
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 2: about the nightmare that is working a dumpster, because it

461
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 2: is it's like taking if you've ever seen somebody take

462
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 2: if you see somebody that takes like a thousand piece

463
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 2: jigsaw puzzle and they just try to do it piece

464
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 2: by piece without ordering ordering, imagine that and then multiply

465
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 2: that because if you ever take a look in a

466
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 2: dumpster and you just look around. First off, it's layered

467
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 2: because with every person that comes by to dump their refuse,

468
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 2: you're dealing with that bottom. And we call it in

469
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 2: the earth when we're doing burials, we call it stratification.

470
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 2: So you have stratified levels, all right, so you'll have

471
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 2: like a really ancient area that maybe the body is

472
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 2: deposited on. Same thing will apply to dumpsters. And if

473
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,919
Speaker 2: you really want a nightmare, work a case from a landfill,

474
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 2: because not only do you have the evidence or say

475
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 2: or remain, a human remain that is stratified and they're

476
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 2: depended upon when the dump, when that dump took place.

477
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: With landfills in particular, they have a schedule as to

478
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 2: where and location, Like they direct their trucks to go

479
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 2: to grid section to B all right, and then next

480
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 2: day will be to sea. Because you don't. You want

481
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 2: to try to keep it even. And then what's really

482
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 2: problematic is that, just like with a dumpster, you may

483
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 2: have had other homeless people digging around in there if

484
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 2: it's an area to look for food, the plane in

485
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 2: they're bringing anything, and in anybody else that dumps household

486
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 2: garbage there, you've got them layering on top of it.

487
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 2: You got to landfill. You got those big machinery. If

488
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 2: you've seen those things, they don't have rubber tires, they've

489
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 2: got steel tires, and they actually drive over the stuff

490
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 2: to compact it. So it really becomes a nightmare. That's

491
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 2: why from a timeline, From a timeline perspective, it's so

492
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 2: important to try to determine when that dumpster was last emptied,

493
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 2: who emptied it, and where did they empty it. But

494
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 2: this is backing up to what the chief said when

495
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 2: we're talking about decompositional changes and trying to establish that

496
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: all important post mortem interval. This is a real tell

497
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 2: because we know that in this particular case, we're not

498
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 2: dealing with somebody that has been dead for days upon

499
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 2: days upon days. We're talking about kill. Yeah, you want

500
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 2: the ultimate puzzle, try try working on a puzzle that

501
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 2: involves a human body. And I'm not just talking about

502
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 2: from an intellectual exercise to try to determine disease and

503
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 2: on it. No, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm

504
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 2: talking about a body that has been dismembered, and you're

505
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 2: trying to understand, first off, when did these injuries occur,

506
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 2: what was fatal, and what type of instrument may have

507
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 2: generated this dissection. And I think that that's really important.

508
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 2: And Dave, we're talking about layers to put another layer

509
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 2: on this May's body is accounted for at this point

510
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 2: in Tom but you know there's two other adults living

511
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 2: in this hall other than Haskell himself in Maylee.

512
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 3: So it's so sad. Yeah, the whole thing is so sad.

513
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 3: You know that the Haskells had three boys, six eight

514
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 3: and twelve. Thankfully when everything came down on that Wednesday

515
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 3: when they the body the torso was found in the

516
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 3: dumpster and police went to the Haskell home. The boys

517
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 3: all six eight and twelve. They were at school when

518
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 3: their dad was arrested and they were then put with

519
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 3: a family member after and that's where they've remained because

520
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 3: even though there was an assumption of who Torso they

521
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 3: recovered in the dumpster. Because Maylee was missing Malely Haskell,

522
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 3: her mom and dad are still missing, Joe. We still

523
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 3: do not have their bodies. They might not be you know,

524
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 3: that's the reality of it. They could be anywhere. Chances

525
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 3: are I think it's presumed that they're dead because of

526
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 3: what has transpired inside the home. When police went inside

527
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 3: the home, they said you could tell a body had

528
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 3: been dismembered. I've never heard of police officer, detective, or

529
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 3: investigator actually say words of that effect, yeah, when describing

530
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 3: a scene. But I think it's because the scene that

531
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 3: they ran into was so horrifying.

532
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: Yep.

533
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 3: The fact that Haskell was a big fan of samurai swords, guns,

534
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 3: all these methods, all these tools of destruction, to the

535
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 3: point where a neighbor loved Maylee will let her kids

536
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 3: play with Maylee's kids, but would not let the children

537
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,959
Speaker 3: go upstairs where the guns were or thea and wouldn't

538
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 3: let them be around him Haskell.

539
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 1: So when police tell.

540
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it tells you everything you need to know about

541
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 3: how people thought of this guy.

542
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's why I always tell parents to respect

543
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 2: the gut feeling ralways no matter what, and Uh, and

544
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,479
Speaker 2: here here's the thing with the parents missing, and you know,

545
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 2: I think that it's it's very insightful. You're right. Police

546
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 2: normally do not say this sort of thing. They don't

547
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 2: make a comment like that. Okay, it's not it's it's

548
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 2: more atypical. They won't go into graphic detail like that.

549
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 2: But I'm sure that there's some level of frustration on

550
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 2: their part at this moment. Tom, give it.

551
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 3: You know the autopsy, Joe, Yeah, we've been waiting for this,

552
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 3: for the results from the autopsy of the of the

553
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 3: torso that was found. Yeah, we they're playing some things

554
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 3: close to the best. But the one thing you do know, Yeah,

555
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 3: the one thing we do know is that this torso

556
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 3: that was found in the dumpster was missing the head.

557
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 3: And we know there was a gory scene at the

558
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 3: Tarzana home. So there are autopsy report came out. I

559
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 3: read some of it. It didn't make a lot of

560
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 3: sense to me because I couldn't figure it out. But

561
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 3: and I'm going to ask you this straight out and

562
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 3: need you to tell me all the stings use on it.

563
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 3: But was she alive? Was she tortured? Couldn't you tell

564
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 3: that in an autopsy? If she was kept alive long

565
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 3: enough to experience all of the damage and her head

566
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 3: being cut.

567
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 2: Off, yes, we could tell yeah, most definitely, and they

568
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 2: have not. As a matter of fact, the medical examiner

569
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 2: actually stated that that possibility could not be excluded. Dave,

570
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 2: And just so our friends understand, and look, I think

571
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 2: we've got very smart listeners and they will have heard

572
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 2: this elsewhere. But it bears repeating. When we're looking and

573
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 2: trying to assess an injury and trying to determine whether

574
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 2: it is anti mortem, before death or post mortem, the

575
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 2: trick is to always look for the hemorrhage. That's one

576
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 2: thing that we can tell. So the emmy saw something

577
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: there in these dissected out areas that gave them an

578
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 2: indication that there was possibly hemorrhage in these slices, and

579
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 2: that again is it will rock you to your core

580
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 2: when you begin to think about this, that if she

581
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 2: was not unconscious, that she may have had an awareness

582
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 2: that this was going on. Hopefully, I'm hoping against hope

583
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,399
Speaker 2: that that is not the case, but the emmy could

584
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 2: not rule it out. He had also stated that to

585
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 2: this point he couldn't rule out the possibility of her

586
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 2: potentially having been drugged in some way, having been suffocated

587
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 2: or smothered or asphyxiated in some way. So there's still

588
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 2: a lot in the mix here, but they are seeing hemorrhage.

589
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 2: Now we don't know specifically where this hemorrhage is. I

590
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 2: do know this. This was striking and a real boy

591
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 2: you talk about really grab your attention. Whoever wielded this

592
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 2: instrument that wound up, you know, using this instrumentality for dismemberment.

593
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 2: It was so sharp that the margins were really clean.

594
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 2: So this is not like an event where where you're

595
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 2: talking about hacking away like with a hatchet or an

596
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 2: axe and that sort of thing. He did entertain the possibility,

597
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 2: and I think I have an idea of what he's seeing.

598
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 2: He talked about a power tool as well, which again

599
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 2: adds in a completely different level to this. If you

600
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 2: bring in an element of torture here, if you use

601
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 2: something like a sawsaw, which is one of those little

602
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,879
Speaker 2: circular saws that you can cut through things with, those

603
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 2: margins are going to be very, very clean. They're not

604
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 2: going to be real jagged. And also when you get

605
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 2: to the bone itself, it will have distinctive markings on

606
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 2: that phone that can tie back to instruments. That's why

607
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 2: in our field we work very very closely with tool

608
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 2: mark examiners. They don't just look at pride marks on

609
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 2: windows of burgled homes. They don't just look at how

610
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 2: steering columns have been taken apart and what kind of instrument.

611
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 2: We actually work with them when it comes to bone

612
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 2: in particular, to try to match up an instrument with

613
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 2: the markings that are left behind. That's going to be significant.

614
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:41,399
Speaker 2: You know, I think in.

615
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: This case, do we know we're other parts of her

616
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: body severed?

617
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 3: I noticed the plural being used where actually it says

618
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 3: the report states amputation sites plural. Right, we're remarkably smooth.

619
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And what that means is that whatever location this

620
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 2: individual decided to amputate at, it would be Okay, let

621
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 2: me back up, because this is important. You mentioned something

622
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,959
Speaker 2: that's really telling here, Dave about the gordiness. They saw

623
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,399
Speaker 2: something in that house that was like, okay, somebody's been

624
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 2: dismembered here. Well, how do you come to that conclusion

625
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 2: if the body is not there? Well, first off, my

626
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 2: first gut reaction is going to be probably a copious

627
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 2: amount of blood more than likely if you're talking about

628
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 2: if you're talking about a power tool, as ghastly as

629
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 2: this is, you do just like saw dust, there is

630
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 2: bone dust that's left behind, and it will actually appear

631
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 2: blood tainted. You can see this white piled dust, you know,

632
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,879
Speaker 2: be blood tainted. You'll see that they may have found

633
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 2: an instrument, because what did he say in the report?

634
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 2: He said power tool. So maybe they found something there

635
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 2: that's going to have a remnant of biological evidence on it.

636
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 2: That would not surprise me. It doesn't matter how you

637
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 2: could take that damn thing and put it in a dishwasher, Dave,

638
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 2: and there's still possibility that you're going to recover something

639
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 2: off of it. So how much more so if you're

640
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 2: just trying to scrub it down. There's because there's all

641
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 2: those little nooks and crannies around the thing that you

642
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 2: never fully account for. I think one of my concerns

643
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 2: with this. They talk about how horrific the scene is,

644
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 2: and one things they're going to be faced with, Dave,

645
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 2: in May's murder and the status of her parents, is

646
00:38:55,239 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 2: that if they're dealing if something has happened equally horrific

647
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 2: to the parents, you're going to have commingling of biological

648
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 2: evidence there, So you can have let's just say, person A, B,

649
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 2: and C. If they've all met roughly the same fate

650
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:18,359
Speaker 2: and you're doing these dismemberments in the same location, you're

651
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 2: going to have commingling of DNA that are only surfaces.

652
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter really how much you clean up, because

653
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 2: if he's doing this in a frenzy, they if they

654
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 2: are doing it in a frenzy allegedly, then you can

655
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:37,720
Speaker 2: have this kind of mixing that goes on in there.

656
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 2: And are you going to be able to kind of

657
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 2: separate out these biological samples. First off, you expect to

658
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 2: find all of their DNA there anyway, because that's their domicile.

659
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 2: The trick is that what is the source of the DNA?

660
00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 2: Is it blood? Is it bone? Is it hair? Its skin?

661
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 2: What is it? And when I say skin, I'm not

662
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 2: talking about dead skin sales, Dave. If this was a dismemberment,

663
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 2: you would actually find skin tax perhaps in a lot

664
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 2: of different places that may have come off of whatever

665
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 2: instruments left behind. This is not an easy process and

666
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 2: so that's what the police are kind of or the

667
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 2: forensic scientists at least are kind of, you know, kind

668
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 2: of suss through all of this stuff and try to

669
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 2: understand it. Either way, they've got one whale of a

670
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 2: case or cases on their hands right now.

671
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 3: They also said in the autopsy report quote, with the

672
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 3: remains that were available for examination, an exact mechanism of

673
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 3: death was unable to be determined. I don't think they

674
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 3: have the head.

675
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think that they do either at this

676
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 2: point in time. It's funny sometimes, you know, when you

677
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 2: get these dismemberment things, it seems more often than not,

678
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:08,240
Speaker 2: many times the head is actually found away from the body.

679
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 2: You remember, it was just last week we talked about

680
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 2: the bodies in Long Island and those heads were separate.

681
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, I think the two heads

682
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 2: in that case were found proximal to one another and

683
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 2: the rest of their heads were in another place. And

684
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 2: that happens more often than not in these kinds of cases.

685
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 3: And that's actually I was thinking about that case and

686
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 3: the amount of blood from two bodies causing enough to

687
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 3: clog the trains. Yeah and yeah, now in this home

688
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 3: where the home in Tarzana was a very big home,

689
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 3: and I'm going to assume a number of bathrooms are

690
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 3: there if you're going to try to get try to

691
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 3: get rid of there remains a three bodies. All I

692
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,919
Speaker 3: can think of is he is we only have proof

693
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 3: of one. We only have and not even proof. We

694
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 3: have an alleged killing of one person, that is Meylee Haskell,

695
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 3: his wife. We have her torso, and we have an

696
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 3: autopsy that's been done. Based on what they have, they

697
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 3: gave us their opinion. Now we don't have I say

698
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 3: we They have not recovered. They have not found Maylee's parents.

699
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,840
Speaker 3: They haven't found them, either in life or in death.

700
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 3: What they did come up with on Meylee was the

701
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 3: most likely possibilities of death because the torso didn't reveal enough.

702
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 3: But they said, when I saw these, thought Joe, I

703
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 3: could have come up with these. The possibilities are blunt

704
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 3: force trauma of the head and neck, gunshot wound of

705
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 3: the head and neck, sharp force injury of the head

706
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 3: and neck, and forms of astyxia because if we don't

707
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 3: have the head, those are all possible death modes.

708
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, you're absolutely right. And that's that's what's you know,

709
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 2: that's gonna that's gonna be one of the biggest problems. Uh,

710
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 2: you know, you begin to think about causality here and

711
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,959
Speaker 2: they have to leave the table open. However, I think

712
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 2: that it is significant and we have to revisit this

713
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,479
Speaker 2: that they're talking about sharp forces injuries and they're talking

714
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 2: about her having potentially have been alive. That significant in

715
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 2: the case that they're seeing hemorrhage there, Dave, and I

716
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 2: think that that's going to be the thing that is

717
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 2: when they can put the detectives, will put this narrative

718
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 2: together as they're conducting all of the interviews that they

719
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 2: have to have. When this thing finally goes to trial,

720
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 2: we might see more forensics in this trial than we

721
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:47,760
Speaker 2: have in a long long time. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan

722
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 2: and this is Bodybacks