1 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 2 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 3 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 4 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 6 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 7 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope 8 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it 9 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship 10 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so 11 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: much for joining me for session to sixty eight of 12 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into 13 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: the conversation after a word from our sponsors. As part 14 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: of our programming efforts from Minority Mental Health Awareness Month, 15 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: We're closing out this July with a special episode featuring 16 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: author and theologian Candice Binbo. Candice is a multi genre 17 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: theologian imagining how faith can be a tool of liberation 18 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 1: and transformation for Black women and girls. In her work, 19 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 1: Candice challenges black women to think critically about how they 20 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: see God, themselves, and the world around them. Our conversation 21 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: explores processing church hurt, finding your identity within a church community, 22 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: and Candice's new book Red Lip Theology for church girls 23 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: who consider tithing to the beauty supply Store when Sunday 24 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: morning isn't enough. If something resonates with you while enjoying 25 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: our conversation, please share with us on social media using 26 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: the hashtag TVG in Session or join us over in 27 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: the Sister Circle to talk more in depth about the episode. 28 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: You can join us at Community that Therapy for Black 29 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: Girls dot com. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much 30 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: for joining us. Candice, thank you. I'm so excited, very 31 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: excited to chat with you. So you do so many things, 32 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: but among them, you are both a writer and a theologian. 33 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 1: Can you tell me a little bit about what drew 34 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 1: you to studying theology. So I am a bona fire 35 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: church girl, and I mean going to raise in the church. 36 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: God is meaning whoopings in church as I got at home, 37 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: and I have always been fascinated with what it means 38 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: to know God, to discover who God is, what faith 39 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: means personally to you. But at the same time, there 40 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: were growing up as the child of a single parent. 41 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: I heard sermons that really disparaged my mom, and not 42 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: just disparaged her, but other single mothers. And I really 43 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: came to this conclusion about the church and its disdain 44 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: for black women and black women's sexuality, and that really 45 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: was the catalyst those questions, the inquiry, the desire to study. 46 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: That's really what pushed me to say, I want to 47 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: study theology much more formally, but also being a church girl, 48 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:46,119 Speaker 1: being formed, also in hip hop culture, being a student 49 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: of culture at large. I wanted to find a way 50 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: to seamlessly weave all of these parts of me to 51 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: do this kind of work, which I really think it 52 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: is as much a passion as it is a calling. 53 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: So let us talk about the book for a moment. 54 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: So the name of the book is really The Theology, 55 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: which I feel like it's such a brilliant and beautiful title. 56 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: So I want to one to hear about the origin 57 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: story for the title. But also have you talked about 58 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: like what called you to write this book at this time? Yeah? 59 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: So I was in my last year at Duke Divinity School. 60 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: So the funny thing about Duke is that Duke requires 61 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: one Black Church Studies course to graduate with you're in did, 62 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 1: and a lot of my white classmates did not feel 63 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 1: like they needed to sit and hear about black church 64 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: and black religiosity to graduate. So I had one particular 65 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: classmate who you know, I want and people we know 66 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: this when wife at get caught out, they want to 67 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: invite you to lunch or the coffee, so to make 68 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: sure that you know that they're not racing. So like 69 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,160 Speaker 1: he every time he saw me would ask me to 70 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: go to coffee, and I'm like, I don't drink coffee, 71 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: so we can't go. He would't want to go eat. 72 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: I just ate like I was flying all of these 73 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: the reasons not to talk to him. So this particular 74 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: day he catches me in the library when he sat down, 75 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 1: had I immediately gotten up, it would have been clear 76 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: that I was doing it to avoid him. And I 77 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: really wish trying to be more like Jesus that day. 78 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: So I was like, let me just sit down and 79 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: just endure what he on sat So he looks at 80 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: me and he's like, so can't this do you consider 81 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: yourself a black theologian or are you a regular theologian? 82 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 1: As if to say that what we do is Niche 83 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: like that this is not theology proper, and I was like, 84 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: I could go there with him, but you know when 85 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: you realize, like it is futile to go back and 86 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: forth with people who have committed themselves to a certain ideology. 87 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 1: And I was like, I'm not gonna waste my breath. 88 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: So I said I'm a real look theologian. And he 89 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: looked at me and he was like like, you know 90 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: how even looking like okay, did I miss that in 91 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: the reading? Like what is she talking about? And he 92 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: was like who who? Who? Who's his that? And I 93 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: was like mine, I just come up with it just now. 94 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: And then I got my stuff together and I left. 95 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: But as soon as I said it, it made so 96 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 1: much sense for me, because when I talked about it 97 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: in the book, I started my seminary career making a 98 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 1: promise to my best friend that I was going to 99 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: take more care in my appearance and myself after this breakup, 100 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 1: like I had let myself go and be your best 101 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: friend can come to you and be like you really 102 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: out here looking like what you've been through and that's 103 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: not us, right, And so she was like I need 104 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: you to do better. And then I couldn't tell her 105 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: that I didn't know how right, Like I couldn't imagine 106 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: that I was here again nursing a broken heart again, 107 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: like believing that this was going to work and it 108 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: didn't work again and internalizing it as if it was 109 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: my fault and that there's something wrong with me. I 110 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: didn't know how to piece myself together, and so she 111 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: took me her and my line sister. They took me 112 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: to Sephora. She made me like a promise that I 113 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: was gonna take a couple of minutes every day to 114 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: put myself together and put my best face forward. And 115 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: so at the same time that I was in seminary Arry, 116 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: I was honoring this commitment to my best friend. So 117 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: red lif theology made so much sense because that's how 118 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: I encounter and engage theological study. They were not separated 119 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: from me, right, So like the beauty industry participation and 120 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: theological inquiry, we're dead fellows. And I needed them both 121 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: because at the same time, both were working to heal 122 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: parts of me that I didn't think could be healed, right, 123 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: And that was really the impetus behind writing this book. 124 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: And I think Tony Morrison had said it once, like 125 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 1: you need to write the book that you need to read, 126 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: you know, and rever Dr Katie Cannon said that we 127 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: got to do the work that our souls must have 128 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: and so I knew that in my younger years, and 129 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:04,079 Speaker 1: now I needed the book that spoke to me as 130 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: a millennial black woman who was born and raised in 131 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 1: the church, but whose thoughts about church we're much different 132 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: than her mother's than her grandmother's, and that I needed 133 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: space to think through that, and I need it rain 134 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: to be okay with the fact that it looked different, right, 135 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: And so part of writing this book was like, I'm 136 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: not by myself, like there are other sisters. Now we 137 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: might diverge right on certain aspects, but the fact that 138 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: we're journeying right makes us so journals that we are 139 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: saying we need to have conversations about faith that honor 140 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:59,319 Speaker 1: the totality of our experiences, the honor that our faith 141 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: and our personal relationships get to be our own. And 142 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: so I wanted and felt very cold to speak into 143 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: that space and that moment for sisters like me. And 144 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: that's how you get real theology. Yeah, I think when 145 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: I first heard the title, I thought, and I feel 146 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: like this is something where you were coming from, Like 147 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: Red lips. I think, you know, for a lot of 148 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: us as black girls, like real lipstick is like the 149 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: worst thing that you could ever do, right, Like it 150 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: spoke to some kind of like sinful kind of thing. Right, 151 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: this is the ideas I don't know the first Sunday 152 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: and they probably is the only Sunday. I intentionally we're 153 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 1: real lipstick because I was taking my grandmother church and 154 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: I pulled up to pick her up, came in the 155 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: house to get her. She said, what we're going? And 156 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: I said, she said, not that on your mouth. We're 157 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 1: not going there. So so what what do you think 158 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: you're gonna do? And I was like, grandmine, it's just 159 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: and I knew Nicholas and my grandma sat on her 160 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: bed perch like this. She wasn't moving until I took 161 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: it off. And it was the funniest thing because my grandmother, 162 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: I tell people, she's the first theologian that I knew, 163 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: Like my desire for theological inquiry and biblical study comes 164 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: from her. And so she was looking like, girl, have 165 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: you lost your mind? In years passed from that she 166 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: and I have had that been able to have much 167 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: more liberative, interesting discussions about sex and sexuality about womanhood 168 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: and the ways that she was raised in church right, 169 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: and when she was raised to think, and the ways 170 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: that her thought patterns converged, but she didn't have the 171 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: room to to challenge those right And so like, I 172 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: think that part of the red lip for me was 173 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: what does it look like for black women to be 174 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: transgressive as they are still honoring a holiness? Like the 175 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: theology is the part of us that is like, there 176 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:22,599 Speaker 1: is God, right, This God sustains us right, This God 177 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: is who and what we lean on in times of 178 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,319 Speaker 1: good and in times of plenty, and we get to 179 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: through this God. And because of this God pushed back 180 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: against the systems and the ideologies that harm us, because 181 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: this God wants us to flourish and be well. Yeah 182 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: mm hmmm. I love that. So thinking back now, you 183 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: know the book has been out for a little bit 184 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: of time, thinking back now and reflecting on your writing, 185 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: is there anything that you would have included that you 186 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: didn't include? Now? I love that question. I will say this, 187 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: and I thought about it. No. And the reason why 188 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: is because I wrote this book and this is going 189 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: back to church stuff. I was really trying to find 190 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: a way of honoring the line of telling my story 191 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: and honoring that my grandmother is still alive because there 192 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: were some things that did not make the book, and 193 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: they only did not make the book because she is 194 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: still with it. And the truth is that I believe 195 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: you get to stand on that truth and get to 196 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: tell what people have done to us and how we 197 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: have found resilience and hope in those times. I believe that, 198 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: and I also believe that there is a holy responsibility 199 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: to find ways to care for the people who care 200 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: for us. Right. My grandmother comes from a very different time, 201 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: like it was enough for the sex chapter to go 202 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: in there. Like I remember when we talked about it, 203 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: she was like, do you have to tell people to check? 204 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: You know? And then I didn't even tell her about 205 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: the amazing grace Societ checks. I just let her read that, 206 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: and she said, Lord, you then told these people that 207 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: you didn't had enough fair She's us. I remember the 208 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: turns and two she took sitting in that chair, like 209 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: she said, you know what I'm told, And here's the thing. 210 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: She knew that that was my truth to tell. She 211 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: knew that even and telling it, I was owning up 212 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: to ways that I had not lived in the light 213 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: of who I am and that it was me helping 214 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: sister see that we gotta make better decisions that prioritize, 215 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: And for me, I realized that it was not about 216 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: telling everything, but it was what kind of book can 217 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: I write that can help women people, but black women, 218 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: especially on their own faith journeys, right, what polls, what marking, 219 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: what sign posts can be stories from my life tale 220 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: that ten months from now from when the book comes out, 221 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: ten yance from now when the book comes out, I 222 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: can still hold to those And also what does it 223 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: mean for me to think about that in relationship to 224 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: how I write? And so the next book that I've 225 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: begun to think through and trying through, those are some 226 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: of the same questions that I asked, like how can 227 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: I even tell these stories in a way that leads 228 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: to more truth and freedom but also honors and I'm 229 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: similar relationship with people, And I try very hard, and 230 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: I believe that I hate that mark, but I'm always 231 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: working as a writer to be better at it. But 232 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: I try not to be a selacious writer, like I 233 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: don't want you to I don't. I don't want you 234 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: to read for what happened next girl, but to be like, Okay, dang, 235 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: I want my words to be a mirror like that. 236 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: You may not have to be this transparent with everybody, 237 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: but be this transparent with yourself. You know what I'm saying. 238 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: And so I've learned and I made the decisions to 239 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: include what I did based on my relationship with her 240 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: and what it looks like to honor her. And it 241 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: was a larger lesson from me of like, what is 242 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: it me two honor that you've been called right in 243 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: this way, which is awesome. Then you get the blessing 244 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 1: to walk and do life with people in specific ways 245 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 1: that you never want to take advantage of. More from 246 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: my conversation with Candice after the break, you know something 247 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: that I love from your work and also the work 248 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: of the Systems of Truth Table, is that I really 249 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: feel like your work gives sisters the foundation to kind 250 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,360 Speaker 1: of really explore like how they may have been harmed 251 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 1: by the church. And I think that that's really difficult 252 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 1: for people to wrestle with because I think we play 253 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: such an important role, especially in the historically like black church, right, 254 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: But to your earlier point around the ways that we 255 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 1: are often dehumanized and denigrated in these spaces. I mean 256 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 1: even as recent as last week, like we see all 257 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: of these like mega church pastors come up with all 258 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 1: of these sermons that just feel so like so crushing 259 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: to me in a lot of ways. So, can you 260 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the church hurt and like 261 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: how maybe you have experienced it, but how also your 262 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: work hopes to give sisters a chance to kind of 263 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: heal from some of that hurts. Yeah. I think the 264 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 1: first thing that I tell people about church hurt is 265 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: that church hurt is anything that happened to you in 266 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: church or at the hands of a religious leader thought, word, 267 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: or deed that does not reflect God's heart full stop. 268 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:49,719 Speaker 1: That is everything from physical and sexual violence that we know, 269 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 1: unfortunately it's prevalent in our church faces. That's everything from 270 00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: verbal and emotional violence that we hear in certamon that 271 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: we find out our happening as pastors are these tyrants 272 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: as employers and bosses. And that also includes the ways 273 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: that we are manipulated into giving our time and our 274 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: resources because we are told that in doing so, we 275 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: are giving to God and we are proving our commitment 276 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: to a certain level of faith. And the danger of 277 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: church hurts is that in these spaces, it will cause 278 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:44,199 Speaker 1: you to question your very relationship with God. Right Like, 279 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: if I'm hearing these things from people who say that 280 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: they're hearing from God and that God told them, then 281 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 1: when I internalize these things as I would, right like, 282 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: I think that I'm hearing that this is me hearing 283 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: from God, and it puts such a damper, It puts 284 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 1: such a foul perception of myself. And right it took 285 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: a lot of courage for me to first began to 286 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: write in a way that said, cass let's think about 287 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: this a little more. For all of the reasons that 288 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: you just made like one church for black folks and 289 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: family becomes sounonymous. So the moment that you really began 290 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: to like push back against the church, people think you're 291 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: pushing back on your family. They think you're pushing back 292 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: on them. And I mean, I talked about in my 293 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: book my fiercest arguments with my mother where around faith 294 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,360 Speaker 1: and my and like the ways that I was evolving 295 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: and pushing back against the church. But I needed to 296 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: be honest about the fact that the first place that 297 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: I begin to feel and develop and cultivate inferiority and 298 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 1: myself as the church full stop. You know what I'm saying, 299 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: Like I needed to be honest and say that I 300 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: learned from the Church that the only thing that mattered 301 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: about me was that I was smart. I learned through 302 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 1: church that I was always gonna be a step below 303 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,959 Speaker 1: because my parents were not married, and that my father 304 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: could be exalted because he was this man, he song, 305 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: he whatever. But my mother, who stayed and took care 306 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: of me, was is not who I should be, who 307 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: I should aspire to be, because if she would have 308 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: just cut her legs post. You know what I'm saying, 309 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: like I have to be very honest about that, and 310 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: saying all of that messed with me, All of that 311 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: shape and charted a journey of doubt and insecurity that 312 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 1: just was not fair. And if we take a moment 313 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: and challenge theologies and ideologies that are harmful and deaf feelings, 314 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: we will not continue to have generations of girls generate 315 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: that sit and wonder if God loves them because they 316 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:52,160 Speaker 1: don't check these boxes. Writing in that way, you then 317 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,959 Speaker 1: it's almost like this podcast, right, like what we know 318 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: about the work that we do is that the moment 319 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,360 Speaker 1: that we step out and do it bravely other sisters 320 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: come and be like, oh my god, I needed it. 321 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: And that's what happened, was that sisters are like thank you. 322 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: And it's heartbreaking, right because you don't celebrate a sister 323 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: saying that she needed to read your words so that 324 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 1: she could find a way to name what happened to her. 325 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,360 Speaker 1: Because what she realizes that that's another sister that literally 326 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: is trying to overcome trauma and abuse and neglect, and like, 327 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: you don't celebrate that. So you get it and you're 328 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: like like can we not get this right? You know 329 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. But you're grateful because that's one last 330 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: sister who stays in the cycle. Like you're grateful because 331 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 1: that means that she doesn't feel like she's alone. It 332 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: means that she realized that there are people that she 333 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: can come to, you know, And I think part of 334 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: why it matters to step out and to take the 335 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: hits because they come still, right we were talking about 336 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: the earlier, it's for those sisters. I remember I had 337 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: gone somewhere and a very prominent Christian preacher came up 338 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: to me and I didn't even think that me and 339 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: they were like, I appreciate your work because It forces 340 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: me to remember that there are sisters out there who 341 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: are deeply wounded, and it makes me think about what 342 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: I say, and it makes me think about what I'm preaching, 343 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: and it makes me think about what I'm teaching. So 344 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: thank you. And I remember I walked the way and 345 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 1: was like, this is why I do it. I gotta 346 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: keep doing it because that ensued. But there's not gonna 347 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: be a little girl like I was trying, like really 348 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: asking the questions of this God loved me all because 349 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: my daddy isn't here, because I'm hearing sermons that don't 350 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: call him to account, but call my mom into account. 351 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,479 Speaker 1: And she's the one that's taken care right, right, right, 352 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: given this work right that you do where you take 353 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: so many like public shots and doughts and backlash to 354 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 1: your work, what kinds of things have you put in 355 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: place to support yourself? Like, what does support look like 356 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: for you as you continue to do this work? Support 357 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: from me looks like a spiritual care squad that I 358 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: talked about in the book. They are these folks that 359 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: I come to to help me navigate any decision I 360 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:54,360 Speaker 1: have to make that become refuge from me when I 361 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:59,400 Speaker 1: get those hits and it hurts. I have friends who 362 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 1: support me that they can recognize when I've been reading 363 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: comment and they'll tell me, so we need you to 364 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,479 Speaker 1: like long off and I don't need to see your 365 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: posts for another day. I'm like, okay, um. I have 366 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: a therapist that I started working with in twos sixteen 367 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 1: after my mom passed, and we went from three times 368 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 1: a week to meeting every three weeks. Hey, you know 369 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: what's crazy. I did not realize until I thought about 370 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: that the other day, just how much growth that is, right, Like, 371 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 1: I don't think that we stopped sometimes, or we stop 372 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,880 Speaker 1: enough to celebrate the growth because you can think about 373 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: all the shadow or you still got love to doing. 374 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: Here's the truth. It's a lifelong journey to be your 375 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: best self and I have learned that. Part of it 376 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,239 Speaker 1: from me is what is it mean to show up 377 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: as my best self for whatever season I'm in? And 378 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: part of that put particularly as a creative of like 379 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: those seasons evan flow. So those seasons that may be 380 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,479 Speaker 1: an intense season where I am writing right, there may 381 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: be an intense season where I'm reading and I'm feeling 382 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: like thinking through what the next project is gonna be 383 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 1: and I'm reading a lot. Care for me at that 384 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: time means having people around me and a schedule around 385 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: me that does not allow for me to get lost 386 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: in that work. So like what does it mean to 387 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 1: take breathers? Right? Then there are times where I get lost. 388 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 1: There's a season of writing where that gets heavy, where 389 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: like there were days writing certain essays and really theology 390 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: where so we meet every three weeks. Now I had 391 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 1: to do a check in, right, Like I just wrote 392 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: about my daddy. I don't know, we probably just met 393 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: a week ago. We're not supposed to maybe two only 394 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: we need to talk today because I really want to 395 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 1: drive to his house and asking while he drives me, 396 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: like you know, those of those mean it. And then 397 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: then at times where it's out in the world, and 398 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: this was my first book. When it's out in the world, 399 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: you can't control how people receive it, you can't control 400 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: what people do with it. And so that was a 401 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: completely different season of letting go, releasing during rituals around that, 402 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: around my own care of like what it means to 403 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: celebrate that and to to shield myself from certain things, 404 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: and so like part of care for me has been 405 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: recognizing that it looks different each season, there's some consistent parts. Right, 406 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: As somebody who navigates major depression and severe levels of anxiety, 407 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: it has meant a lot from me to realize what 408 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: it means to be very intentional with care around like 409 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: the attacks of my work. So this is something that 410 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: like in the last year and a half, I've had 411 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: to think through and my therapist has really helped me 412 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: with this. There are certain times of the year that 413 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: are really difficult for me because of Mama's passing, like 414 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: her birthday, Mother's Day and the Thanksgiving holiday season. What 415 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: we had to do is say that those might not 416 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: be the best times for me to do heavy work 417 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: that may elicit a strong reaction negatively from people who 418 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: want to push back one, because I'm not gonna be 419 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: in the best space to deal with that kind of critique. 420 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: And I don't want to do anything one that were 421 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: like negatively on the work that I do. And too, 422 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: I don't want to respond to somebody out of some 423 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: other stuff. So when it's time for me to plot work, 424 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: I put and think through all right, I can't write 425 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: about that at that time. There have been sometimes where 426 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: some stuff has hit in the news and in cycles, 427 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: and there's been an expectation that because it's the kind 428 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: of work that I do, that i'll speak to it. 429 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: I've been asked to speak to some stuff and I 430 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: had to say no, not because I don't have an opinion, 431 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: but because it might be right before Mother's Day. It's 432 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: gonna take enough for me to make it through that 433 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: day versus logging on and seeing somebody respond to something 434 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: that I said and they disagree and it may take 435 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: me to another place. So that last piece has been 436 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: so so crucial, and I'm so grateful that she even 437 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: suggested that to me, to say it is absolutely okay 438 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: to not do heavy lifting around the times where your 439 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: heart is the most vulnerable. M what a beautiful gift 440 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: to have given you. I will always keep that, and 441 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: I think that too often, particularly as creatives and creators, 442 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: we don't give ourselves the space to think through that 443 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: because our life and what we do is always around 444 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: content and creation and getting out. And it's okay to 445 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: be like, no, I can take a beat here, and 446 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: if I can't take a beat, then I need to 447 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: reevaluate what I've been doing, because this work should be 448 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: able to sustain beyond that Yeah, what are you hoping 449 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 1: that readers will take away from real live theology? The 450 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: biggest prayer and hope that I have is that readers 451 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: know that it is okay two questions, and that it 452 00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:00,080 Speaker 1: is okay to journey, that God is big enough for 453 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: the questions, that God is big enough for the frustrations, 454 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: and that you are gonna be okay if you start 455 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: the journey and the quest right, and even beyond that, 456 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: that a life that has had pain and unconsionable darkness 457 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: at times can still be a beautiful life to live. 458 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: Those would be what I hope and what I am 459 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: grateful for is that that prayers me answered. When I 460 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: like get on socials and I see I get a 461 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: d M or I get a post or I get 462 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: an email, I'm like, Okay, this is being answered in 463 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: the way that I needed. Mm hmmm. More from my 464 00:32:50,840 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: conversation with Candice after the break, I feel like you 465 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: started this, But what advice would you give to other 466 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: writers or other creatives who are kind of bringing new 467 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: projects into the world, but they're also trying to like 468 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: heal and understand their own emotions and what they've been through. 469 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: What advice would you share? Yeah, so i'mna saying the 470 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: first piece of advice. And I learned this in my 471 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: four forty three days when I wrote this piece for 472 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: forty three right after jay Z released for forty four, 473 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: and it went viral. And this is another lesson of that, 474 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: once you put something into the world like you have 475 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: no control over how it was received. The majority of 476 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: it was received very very well, and people were women 477 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: were responding positively to it. From that lesson, I learned 478 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: to never write something that you're not healed from. I 479 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: was not over their relationship right like he could have been, 480 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna saying right now and everyone last night. He 481 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: could have came back in the next and then the 482 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: thing would have been deleted up the internet, and I 483 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: y'all could have all talked about me, and I would 484 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:10,799 Speaker 1: not have cared like like I I learned from that, 485 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,360 Speaker 1: you do a disservice to yourself when you put something 486 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: into the world and you're not healed from it, Particularly 487 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,439 Speaker 1: when you do this kind of work right, like when 488 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: you are called in a certain way to be deeply 489 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:32,399 Speaker 1: transparent so that transformation can take place. You gotta be 490 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 1: very careful with how you tell your stories, how you 491 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: deliver those stories. Deliver that content because it's still also 492 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 1: part of you. So the biggest piece of advice that 493 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: I give writers who are still trying to heal and 494 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: tell the story, it's to find ways to ensure that 495 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: you are doing that healing work, so that as you 496 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: tell these particular pieces of the story, you are so 497 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: far removed from the direct impact that you will be 498 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,280 Speaker 1: able to speak to it. I'll give you an example. 499 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: My mother used to tell me as a kid, and 500 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: are a kid being high school and college in my 501 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: twenties and thirties, she said, my biggest fear for you 502 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: is that you are gonna be on a national stage 503 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: somewhere and somebody's gonna ask you about your father, and 504 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: you're gonna follow wart. And he doesn't deserve to take 505 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 1: that moment from you, Like as clearly as you are 506 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 1: not talking right now. I can remember the first time 507 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: she said that to me, and I remember thinking, like, 508 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 1: she right, he doesn't, he doesn't deserve that. Apply that 509 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: to every painful experience that we've had, right, Yeah, there 510 00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:01,280 Speaker 1: are lessons, right, yeah, other people can learn from them, 511 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: and yes, they don't deserve to rob us from the 512 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 1: moments that we get to stand in the truth and 513 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 1: the power of our own resilience. So that's why we 514 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 1: got to do that healing work. You also have to 515 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:19,360 Speaker 1: find ways to care for your soul doing this work. 516 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: I believe in bubble Beast, like it is that It's 517 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 1: so funny, how like that became like my thing, Like 518 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 1: after writing something, I got a whole like stand in 519 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: my bathroom of just all of the different moods that 520 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: I want to create with like candles and bath bombs 521 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: and powders now and it is just oh right, like 522 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: I wrote this, it is out in the world. Let 523 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 1: me soak, you know what I'm saying, Like it has 524 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 1: been that for me to find ways to care for myself, 525 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,399 Speaker 1: taking better care of my health and my physical health 526 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 1: of like working out and eating healthier, Like you underestimate 527 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 1: how much that fused you to do this work. I 528 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 1: think as writers, one of the things that I underestimated 529 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 1: was just how much my mind and my creativity needed 530 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: a healthier body, right like holistically, like that my physical 531 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 1: health and my emotional health when they are optimal, my 532 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: creativity and my productivity optimally, and if I feel called 533 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 1: to do this work and I want to honor it. 534 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 1: And I really believe that we overcome by the word 535 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,160 Speaker 1: of our testimony. And my mom would always say that 536 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: scripture says the word of our testimony, it don't mean it. 537 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,839 Speaker 1: It got to be your direct custimony, right. That's why 538 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 1: I told my grandma I put Amazing graceicide checks in 539 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 1: the book because ten years from now, like if a 540 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: sister may be thinking about it and she gets that book, 541 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,399 Speaker 1: she gonna read this one. Ain't nowhere in the world 542 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 1: I want to go through where she what Candice went through. 543 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: So let me cut this off at the knees right now, 544 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: because I believe that we've been called to do that 545 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: kind of work. I need to ensure that I'm taking 546 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 1: care of myself, and I need to ensure that people 547 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:39,359 Speaker 1: around me one can hold me accountable to that, and 548 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:43,959 Speaker 1: too can't find ways to let me like not take 549 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 1: everything so seriously, Like there's joy in this, Like it's 550 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,360 Speaker 1: not just writing about trauma, Like it's not just writing 551 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 1: about pain and discussing pain. Like there's joy, Like there 552 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 1: is a beauty and a happiness in life. And I 553 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: ain't that. I tell people who are writers, if you 554 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:09,319 Speaker 1: can't get those things down figuring out like what it 555 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:14,439 Speaker 1: means to care for you and heal as you want 556 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 1: to tell these stories and give them to the world. 557 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:22,319 Speaker 1: The nuts and boats of this I can help you 558 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 1: with those, Like you could go to the workshops and 559 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 1: they're gonna help you with the nuts and boats of writing. 560 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,319 Speaker 1: What they can't help you with in these workshops is 561 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: how to take care of you as you writing, because 562 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,279 Speaker 1: you'll be sitting there as I have. Like I tell 563 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:41,319 Speaker 1: the joke of the first draft of Real Theology may 564 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 1: bend leading all over it like it what like it's 565 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: an essays in that that was in that first draft. 566 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: Then my editor was like, so this is creative and 567 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:58,320 Speaker 1: it's a lot of information. What are we discussing and 568 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 1: wanting to And that was our west and like you 569 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 1: bled all over this, get it out. It's out. We're 570 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 1: not gonna use it though, but I'm glad it is 571 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,279 Speaker 1: out right. So like it is that space. And so 572 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: I think if we can find ways it's creative to 573 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:21,360 Speaker 1: recognize that our creativity or thrives and our work with 574 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:26,399 Speaker 1: flourish when we really really take and as vested an 575 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: interest in ourselves as possible. What's so were what were 576 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 1: m so Canada's so many beautiful things where we cannot 577 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 1: talk all day. Um, and that's so much good stuff, 578 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 1: so many beautiful ways we can go back. We have 579 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: to come back so that we can kind of continue 580 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,719 Speaker 1: to talk about some of these other things. But tell 581 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 1: us where we can stay connected to you. So, what 582 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: is your website as well as any social media channels 583 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,320 Speaker 1: you want to share? Yeah, so my website is www. 584 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: I can't just member dot com and and I'm on 585 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,840 Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram at Candice Bembo. So that's C A 586 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,080 Speaker 1: N D I C E b E N b o W. 587 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: I am on Facebook and I'm on TikTok only because 588 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 1: my cousin told me that I'm not old enough to 589 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:21,799 Speaker 1: say that I can't do TikTok's. But if you really 590 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,920 Speaker 1: want to see me and talk to me, Instagram and 591 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,960 Speaker 1: Twitter is what you'll find me. We'll be sure to 592 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:30,960 Speaker 1: include all of those in the show notes. Thank you 593 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,200 Speaker 1: so much for your word, Candice, and for joining us today. 594 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:40,840 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, thank you. I'm so glad Candic 595 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 1: was able to share her expertise with us today. To 596 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,759 Speaker 1: learn more about her or to grab a copy of 597 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,359 Speaker 1: her book, visit the show notes at Therapy for Black 598 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 1: Girls dot Com slash session to and be sure to 599 00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 1: text two of your girls and tell them to check 600 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 1: out the episode right now. If you're looking for a 601 00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 1: therapist in your area, check out our therapist directory at 602 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,319 Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if 603 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,680 Speaker 1: you want to continue digging into this topic or just 604 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 1: be in community with other sisters, come on over and 605 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,240 Speaker 1: join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner 606 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,120 Speaker 1: of the Internet design just for black women. You can 607 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,880 Speaker 1: join us at community dot Therapy for Black Girls dot com. 608 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Freda Lucas and Alice Ellis 609 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,400 Speaker 1: and editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank you all 610 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,960 Speaker 1: so much for joining me again this week. I look 611 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,160 Speaker 1: forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. 612 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:31,239 Speaker 1: Take it care