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Speaker 1: The Nicky Glaser Podcast. N here's Nicky. Hello, here I am,

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Speaker 1: It's Nicky Glazer Podcast. Welcome to the show. It's Wednesday.

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Speaker 1: Is I right? Andrew spinning a basketball? I'm in St. Louis.

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Speaker 1: He's next to me. Uh Noah is in Arizona. And

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Speaker 1: we have a special guest today. Um is my friend.

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Speaker 1: Uh and uh sound healer slash voice coach. Um, just

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Speaker 1: slash friend. And it's Aria is your last name? To

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Speaker 1: May's so good to be with you, Maria to May

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Speaker 1: wait like Marissa, like Marissa Tomy. I've never met her,

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Speaker 1: but I want to meet her. But is it wait?

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Speaker 1: Th h O m e yeah with a little ast?

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Speaker 1: How you do an accent? A? Do you really use?

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Speaker 1: Do you? Has it always been there? Did you throw

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Speaker 1: that in? I threw that in there when I changed

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Speaker 1: my name? Oh my god, yes, because why not tonight?

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Speaker 1: So before? How did you purn ounce it? Tom toy Tomy? Okay,

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Speaker 1: so straight up out of the gate? Aria is transgendered? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh no, you didn't tell God. You didn't tell me

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Speaker 1: he was transfer Oh god, I didn't get out Andrew.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine? Um? So Aria's trans and changed her name.

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Speaker 1: Both both of her names. That's so, I don't know

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Speaker 1: you were able to amend the second one. Why did

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Speaker 1: you do that? Well, I did some research. Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: a musician, I'm acquired director. So I did some research

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Speaker 1: about genealogy and I found out that I'm related to

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Speaker 1: a French composer, Francis Francis tomay Um. And he has

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Speaker 1: a town that he's from the town to th hmy

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Speaker 1: with what do you call it? He has a town. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he has a town in France and he owns the town.

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Speaker 1: He's dead, okay, but he was from the town. He

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Speaker 1: was from a town okay, yeah, and uh he was

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Speaker 1: a famous composer. And so then I learned that my

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Speaker 1: last name is not German, which is where I grew

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Speaker 1: up believing, and it's actually French. So I thought French

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Speaker 1: is much more than Germans. So um, no offense to

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Speaker 1: any Yeah, so I started I was dying everything you

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Speaker 1: sound like in Germany. Just I'm offending so many Germans.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, It's okay, they can take it. They are

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Speaker 1: hard people. I had a history teacher who said, everything

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Speaker 1: is everything you say in French sounds like you're asking

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Speaker 1: for sex. But everything you say in Germans, sounds like

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna kill you. It sounds like you're asking for,

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Speaker 1: you know, sex with poop. It's i'll like your wife

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Speaker 1: while asking a fucker. I don't say that to me.

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Speaker 1: You actually, no French. I was trying to think of,

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Speaker 1: like where is the bathroom? If that sounds like do

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Speaker 1: you want to sex to me? How do you say

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Speaker 1: a yeah? Uh um? We used to it so I

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Speaker 1: I also added an excellent a goo to and an

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Speaker 1: extra e to my middle name, Renee. My parents named

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Speaker 1: me renee r e n e. But they they named

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Speaker 1: me after their friend Rennie. But they thought that no

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Speaker 1: one that would be too weird of a pronunciation for

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Speaker 1: that name, so they made it Renee even though they

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Speaker 1: spelled it the way, And they named me after Rennie,

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Speaker 1: who was like this cool girl they knew, so they

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Speaker 1: robbed me of a cool pronunciation. Then they gave me

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Speaker 1: the renee, but then they renee r any. It's that's

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Speaker 1: the that's the male French version, which is fine, but

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Speaker 1: they didn't know that they thought they were doing. But

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Speaker 1: the female, if you're renee with and you are feminine,

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Speaker 1: the feminine version is r e n excante gou with

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Speaker 1: an extra r e any with an extra E. So

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Speaker 1: I changed it in high school to that to make

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Speaker 1: it like more French. I'm not I can't imagine the court,

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Speaker 1: you know. I just did it for fun, like you know,

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Speaker 1: my school papers and stuff. But I want to do um,

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Speaker 1: I want to go by Rennie. But um, I'd had

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Speaker 1: a friend in high school also, Lauren Hufford, and she

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Speaker 1: made her name a Y for instead of an E

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Speaker 1: on Lauren. Just out of nowhere, she did like Lauren

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Speaker 1: Hill and we were just like, what is this she's

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Speaker 1: back to? I'm sure she's back, but but you just

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Speaker 1: start like trying to find something that makes you a

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Speaker 1: little bit like unique in high school. Um, but you

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Speaker 1: changed your name officially and legally, you just got your

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Speaker 1: license right, like, um, my name has been legally changed

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Speaker 1: since about October two years ago. But there's so much

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Speaker 1: red tape you have to jump through in Missouri to

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Speaker 1: um get your license, and UM, if your name is changed,

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Speaker 1: I mean just forget it. I mean they make you

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Speaker 1: so many gender hoops you have to jump through. UM.

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Speaker 1: But finally, like I couldn't do it, Like I just

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Speaker 1: froze like with anxiety. So yeah, I was like I

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Speaker 1: phrase with anxiety when I have to get my license renewed,

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Speaker 1: like I'm gonna have the wrong papers, They're gonna think

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Speaker 1: that I'm illegal. I'm going to go to jail forever.

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Speaker 1: All these anxieties you have about doing anything with even

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Speaker 1: though going the post office getting your passport renewed, I

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Speaker 1: always feel like I'm doing something wrong. And then I

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Speaker 1: know about a parking ticket I have seven years ago,

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Speaker 1: and they send you a license until you have three

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Speaker 1: more documents, and then add to that, I mean talk

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Speaker 1: about red tape, like in terms of just filling up

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Speaker 1: forms and having the right forms. Everything you do. When

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Speaker 1: you're changing when your trans and you're going through these

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Speaker 1: changing your name and getting all your gender changed on

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Speaker 1: your license and all these things, you're still dealing with

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Speaker 1: people who have to look at your paper and then

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Speaker 1: look at you and kind of go, oh, that's what

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Speaker 1: she's doing, you know, like there's a judgment along the

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Speaker 1: way an interpersonal relationship. There absolutely is that process. So

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Speaker 1: my Arizona when I lived in Arizona, had a a

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Speaker 1: sense and then when I came here, um my license

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Speaker 1: was stolen. So so that's why I had to get

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Speaker 1: a Missouri license. But when I was just at the

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Speaker 1: DMV recently, um, I do bring my court papers that

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Speaker 1: said that my name was changed and my gender was changed.

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Speaker 1: And you could just tell by the way that she

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Speaker 1: looked at her paper, looked up at me, look at

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Speaker 1: the paper, looked up at me, and just these eyes

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Speaker 1: of judging, just like Shot Daggers tried to convince her

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Speaker 1: get out of here, right exactly. It's just we were

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Speaker 1: talking about this yesterday. I had a voice lesson that

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Speaker 1: turned it was just two hours of us like hanging,

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Speaker 1: you know, like twenty minutes of voice. Yeah, a little

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Speaker 1: bit singing, but it was mostly hanging. And just like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I were trans that I could

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Speaker 1: go through all of the stuff you have to go

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Speaker 1: through too, I might just like feel defeated and just go, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna live a lie my entire life because

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Speaker 1: it's too much of an inconvenience to people. People are

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Speaker 1: going to think this way about me. They're gonna think

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to get attention, They're going to think that

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Speaker 1: I'm dying about like their people's opinions about me would

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Speaker 1: feel so overwhelming. And also adding all the paperwork on

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Speaker 1: top of it, but all the like, you know, political nonsense.

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Speaker 1: Then god, the political nonsense since since trans isn't so

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Speaker 1: tied up with um with politics lately, Like when I

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Speaker 1: came up to my parents, Uh, my dad was like,

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Speaker 1: you're just making a political statement. Can you imagine? Long?

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Speaker 1: And when I finally came out to them, probably four

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Speaker 1: years ago, when did you know that? Because the trans

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Speaker 1: was not like a thing, you know, we knew about

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Speaker 1: your thirty nine. I'm thirty eight andrewst two, so we

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Speaker 1: are all around the same age. When we were in

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Speaker 1: high school, I didn't know what trans was. I thought

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Speaker 1: there's men that like to dress as women, and those

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Speaker 1: are cross dressers, which is and then there's drag queens

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Speaker 1: and like I had them all lumped together. But I

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Speaker 1: didn't know there was someone who identify felt they were

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Speaker 1: born in the wrong body until I don't know when.

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Speaker 1: But once it was a thing that I heard about it,

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Speaker 1: I got it immediately. I don't know why it takes

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Speaker 1: so long for everyone to fucking get it, but it does,

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Speaker 1: and it still does, and people still think people are

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Speaker 1: doing it political statement to get attention to just be

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Speaker 1: you know, establishment. When when did you hear about trans

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Speaker 1: and be like, you know transgender people and be like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, that's me. Did you have that moment? No,

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Speaker 1: that's really interesting. Um. You know I grew up in

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Speaker 1: a very conservative Catholic bubble. Uh you know, Catholic grade school,

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Speaker 1: Catholic high school. Um. Yeah, years and years of therapy, honey,

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Speaker 1: just m so like I didn't have the language after puberty,

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Speaker 1: Like I didn't have the language to understand what's going on.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I just feel different. I don't know

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Speaker 1: how to describe it. But do you want to hang

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Speaker 1: out with girls when you were younger? Like did you

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Speaker 1: were you? Did you gravitate more towards what feminine things? Like? Did? What?

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Speaker 1: What did I did? I? You know, my brother was

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Speaker 1: really into monster trucks. I was like, fuck no, UM,

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Speaker 1: want nothing to do with that. Like Christmas, did you

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Speaker 1: get toys that you're just like, God, I guess I

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Speaker 1: have to like what am I going to do with this?

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Speaker 1: If I was a little girl and was getting boy toys,

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Speaker 1: I would have been a little bit. I would have

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Speaker 1: longed for the dolls my sister was getting, Like if

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Speaker 1: that was just you can't have those, there's something That's

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Speaker 1: why I don't understand when people can't understand, like how

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Speaker 1: you know trans people, they don't understand, like how can

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Speaker 1: you feel a different way inside? Well, when you were

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Speaker 1: a kid, what did you want to play? What did

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Speaker 1: you gravitate towards? What if you were like barred from

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Speaker 1: playing with those things? Exactly? I just wanted to sing

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Speaker 1: and you just wanted to do music. And um, I

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Speaker 1: remember one there's a really defining moment Halloween when I

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Speaker 1: was in fourth grade, I cross dressed, so I dressed

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Speaker 1: up as a woman for for Halloween. One night. Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, I've never seen my dad so livid and say,

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Speaker 1: as long as you're living under this roof, you know

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Speaker 1: one of those speeches. I was like, I was ten

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Speaker 1: years old. I probably stopped you from exploring that stop

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Speaker 1: me from and how like confident you were, like all

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Speaker 1: the things Like he's probably saw you kind of like

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Speaker 1: pop to life and like and he saw maybe like

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Speaker 1: oh you know he he at the time wants to

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Speaker 1: do this. He's gonna want to do this more and

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Speaker 1: I gotta squash. It's like so sad now that you

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Speaker 1: put in those terms. Yes, I did Pop to Life,

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Speaker 1: like my hair was curled, I'd clip on earrings, how

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Speaker 1: to dress my my sisters, put like lipstick, and being

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Speaker 1: a little girl to everyone else there who lost this

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Speaker 1: girl like never being allowed to wear a dress, or

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Speaker 1: like some girls are just tomboys And maybe that doesn't

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Speaker 1: resonate with you, but I would have felt very sad

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Speaker 1: to not be allowed to have barbies, to like play

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Speaker 1: a little pretty pretty princess, or if I played it,

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Speaker 1: it was like a joke that I was playing it

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Speaker 1: because I'm a boy, like to not be able to

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Speaker 1: like like the things you like because that's not for you,

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Speaker 1: is just and the one person giving you conditional love

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Speaker 1: is very conditions, like the most conditionus. The one person

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Speaker 1: you feel like you could lean on isn't there. And

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Speaker 1: so you go through that experience and now you're going

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Speaker 1: through high school and you're going through puberty and you're

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Speaker 1: feeling these changes so confused did you tell? And afraid?

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Speaker 1: Probably right like I was. I was absolutely very afraid,

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Speaker 1: like who I was. I was like, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what this is. Um. So there was enough language like

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Speaker 1: for me to be like, okay, maybe I'm a gay man. Yes,

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Speaker 1: okay there. So that was the first thing that I

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Speaker 1: came out as I came out as a gay man

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Speaker 1: because you were attracted to men, or that you felt,

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Speaker 1: um feminine, because I felt feminine. So so I thought

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Speaker 1: I had like one of two choices. I could um

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Speaker 1: be heterosexual, game that those were the two choices. I

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Speaker 1: mean I would have like because obviously we didn't have

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Speaker 1: any um LGBT friends, um growing up or any of that.

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Speaker 1: Um the internet to yeah, before the Internet before we

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, constant news, before the news cycles,

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Speaker 1: really before like trans rights really started taking off and

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Speaker 1: these horrible anti trans legislations started coming through, like we

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Speaker 1: just again, I was in a bubble. I had no

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Speaker 1: idea any of this existed. Um so, but but I

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Speaker 1: was still like too afraid to come out as gay.

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Speaker 1: So um, what did I feel like there was something

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Speaker 1: maybe off about that UM label for you? Even, Like

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Speaker 1: did you feel like, okay, good, I I'm not weird.

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Speaker 1: Like I found my people, like I found a group

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Speaker 1: that once I'm out of this house, I can go

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Speaker 1: be a gay man. Or was it like this doesn't

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Speaker 1: quite fit either? It was it was both. I started

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Speaker 1: working at a gay bar. I started playing piano and

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Speaker 1: singing at a gay bar. On Tuesday and Sunday nights

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Speaker 1: and this high school or postige school, this was college.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, these are more of my people.

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Speaker 1: Where was this? This was, Um, it's not there anymore.

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Speaker 1: You speak called the Heights off Jefferson here in St. Louis. UM.

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Speaker 1: And then UM, so I started working there and I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: but did you grow up in here? Yeah? I grew

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Speaker 1: up in saying okay, so you grew up in a

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Speaker 1: state that it's very conservative. We didn't have any gay people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we didn't happen. They just when we got I remember

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Speaker 1: one time. I remember this also for my father, UM,

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Speaker 1: and I had I have a decent relationship with him.

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Speaker 1: Now that's another story, but like I remember like sitting

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Speaker 1: with him, like at the breakfast table, and he was

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Speaker 1: reading the news like he always does, UM, and he

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Speaker 1: was reading an article about a taxi driver who refused

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Speaker 1: to give an unebrigted gay man a right based on

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Speaker 1: principle because he was gay. And I remember my dad

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Speaker 1: be like, we'll go for the taxi driver. I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have ever, you know, And then he told me a

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Speaker 1: story about how you know, because my dad's a plumber. UM.

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Speaker 1: Totally respect his profession, but he had a gay man

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Speaker 1: who was also at the same plumbing company, and he

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Speaker 1: absolutely refused to be on the same shift as him

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Speaker 1: or to drive in the same van, you know, because

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Speaker 1: they went gay. So I had because obviously there's no

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Speaker 1: offense to be had if you're gay. But that's not

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Speaker 1: like someone who's very gay, like you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: people that are like so scared of gay people. You're

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Speaker 1: a little gay man like if you care that much.

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Speaker 1: But also, do you think that your dad telling you that,

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Speaker 1: like choosing to read that story to you, was him

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Speaker 1: noticing that you were a little bit more effeminate, that

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Speaker 1: a little bit more and being like, I need you

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Speaker 1: to know that this is not okay, and I'm just

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Speaker 1: going to share this anecdotal that's absolutely true because my

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Speaker 1: mom paper article was from like three years ago. He's like,

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Speaker 1: whoa breaking, he's reading this man gay ride weird, but

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Speaker 1: he's he was well aware that I was mama's boy, ye,

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Speaker 1: and mama's boy, you know, tends to be gay a lot.

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Speaker 1: You get bullied for being a feminist I did. Was

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Speaker 1: it like a thing that it was? Yeah? I got

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Speaker 1: called gay and morning grade school. In high school, I

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Speaker 1: just beat everybody to the punch and like ran for

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Speaker 1: class president and got that right away. Um, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: that's that's so. I was like, you guys are gonna

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Speaker 1: touch me, I'm gonna like president. They had no idea,

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Speaker 1: right exactly, the president class ceiling. Right. Yeah, that's so

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Speaker 1: interesting that. Um. So yeah, you threw yourself into like

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Speaker 1: look over here, like if I'm just doing all of

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Speaker 1: this you and did you make It's not like you

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Speaker 1: made fun of yourself necessarily. You were just no. But

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Speaker 1: I was small. I was underdeveloped and you know, the

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Speaker 1: girls and night school Like, oh cute, you know he

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Speaker 1: at the time. So he wants to be class president.

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Speaker 1: That's cute, we'll vote for him. That's really cute. But

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Speaker 1: did you have girlfriends boyfriend like I did? I didn't

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Speaker 1: have any boyfriends because two words, boyfriends. Um, just because

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Speaker 1: I didn't. I hated sports. I could not get into

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Speaker 1: like I didn't know because but you didn't have any

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Speaker 1: guy friends. I didn't have any guy friends. You were

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Speaker 1: mostly friends with the girls. Yes, gotcha? Um, Because did

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Speaker 1: you have any romantic partners in high school? I did.

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Speaker 1: We will get back to that and get all the

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Speaker 1: details right after this break Andrew every cowboy and nowhere. Alright,

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Speaker 1: we're back. Um Andrew discorded his gate rated his love

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Speaker 1: that bottle. I have to stop doing that because it

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Speaker 1: sounds like it sounds like someone's pissing. When I'm editing

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Speaker 1: the show. That does sound like someone's kissing. And I'm

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Speaker 1: not good. Remember we're audio too. Oh God, like he's

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Speaker 1: in the corner, man, let me get in your cab.

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Speaker 1: It does sound like it's like piss on a carpet.

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Speaker 1: Why does your tongue have a It's already bad to begin.

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Speaker 1: I think I'm going wet on wet. My mouth is

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Speaker 1: very wet, and I'm throwing water. Suck on it? Can

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Speaker 1: hear what it sounds like if you suck on it

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Speaker 1: like I do it in the air? Oh yeah, that's like?

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Speaker 1: Is this? Do people listen to this ship? Alright? Gran? Oh,

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Speaker 1: you look like a baby sucking a nipple. That is

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Speaker 1: not kind of cute. There's so much here I have this.

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Speaker 1: You have too much skin? Oh, I don't think you

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Speaker 1: have too much skin. Why do you always say that?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I just have a big from nose

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Speaker 1: to lip. A lot of meat there, yeah, so much

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Speaker 1: meat and just keeps getting more and more the older

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Speaker 1: I get. It just keeps falling. I swear. I look

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Speaker 1: at old photos of me and I'm like, I didn't

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Speaker 1: have that much meat. Something happened either. My nose got higher.

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Speaker 1: But you do that again, lift your nose up. That's

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Speaker 1: such a funny look for you. But just do the

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Speaker 1: tip like like you. I like almost, Yeah, So now

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Speaker 1: you want to go to you look like the Whoville

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Speaker 1: I'd say, yesterday faces All right, wait a second, Aria,

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Speaker 1: I'm dying to know. So you had romantic relations in

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Speaker 1: high school? I'm just interested because I did not, And

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Speaker 1: I'm like, what did you do? I did well? Again,

330
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Speaker 1: because um, you're not gay when you when you go

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Speaker 1: to a Catholic grade school or high school, you can't be.

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Speaker 1: You're not allowed to be. Yeah, like you just can't be. So, Um,

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Speaker 1: I dated girls that I was friends with, So I

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Speaker 1: mean the dating was hell of awkward. Um were you

335
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,600
Speaker 1: ever the one to push aboard or were they the one?

336
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,439
Speaker 1: They were the one who were pushing for it? Um,

337
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,560
Speaker 1: and it's really awkward. Well, like were you into women

338
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:07,040
Speaker 1: or into girls? Um? So like things wouldn't work? Yes,

339
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,840
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yes, Yeah, and when you're

340
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:12,880
Speaker 1: in high school. I have that and I love women.

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00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:19,040
Speaker 1: That's a different episode, right, So did you feel like, uh,

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Speaker 1: did you feel like you were failing or I felt

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Speaker 1: like I was failing on the sexual front, like completely, Um,

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Speaker 1: so you like masturbating to men, Like, did you know

345
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,000
Speaker 1: how to make it work boys? I did have cushes

346
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Speaker 1: on boys. I feel like we're very similar. Like I

347
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,879
Speaker 1: surrounded myself with women. None of them came after me

348
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Speaker 1: because I presented as a woman, so I never had

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Speaker 1: to like do anything. But I feel like I also

350
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Speaker 1: felt this like nervousness around guys and like I wanted

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Speaker 1: them so bad, but I couldn't even talk to them

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Speaker 1: because I was scared of how much I wanted them

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Speaker 1: to like and like I would disappoint them or like

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Speaker 1: in a not in a similar way, because it's not

355
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,119
Speaker 1: at all the same, but there's something similar about that

356
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,760
Speaker 1: of like you couldn't you weren't friends with guys, and

357
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,119
Speaker 1: you weren't obviously romantic with guys, no, and so you

358
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Speaker 1: were just living this lie that you thought wasn't even

359
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:11,399
Speaker 1: a line. Really you were just did you feel like

360
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,600
Speaker 1: it was a lie? The whole thing felt like a lie?

361
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,280
Speaker 1: The whole thing felt like something. It was just the

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Speaker 1: feeling that I'm like in the wrong place at the

363
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,600
Speaker 1: wrong time. Just I didn't know that later it would

364
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 1: manifest itself as like being in the wrong body. It

365
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,240
Speaker 1: was just a place like I'm in the wrong room,

366
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Speaker 1: like and I don't know how to describe it to anyone.

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Speaker 1: I don't like the lights are out, and I don't

368
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Speaker 1: know which way to go. I don't know which way

369
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Speaker 1: is up, I don't know which way is down. Um,

370
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 1: it was just this feeling of disorientation. Did you write

371
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Speaker 1: about it? Did you how did you deal with that? Like,

372
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Speaker 1: did you hurt yourself? Did you know? I poured myself

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Speaker 1: in school, so like I was number three, a Turian,

374
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Speaker 1: like I was a Value Victorian, but I was number three,

375
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Speaker 1: And like I was in NHS, I was in I

376
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Speaker 1: was class president for four years. And so you just

377
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,920
Speaker 1: had an identity, one that you could control. So, yeah,

378
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,399
Speaker 1: you poured yourself into that. I poured myself into that,

379
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 1: poured myself into academics and music. And it's like, well,

380
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Speaker 1: I'll never find like romantic happiness. That's just something that's

381
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Speaker 1: going to evade me for the rest of my life.

382
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 1: And it's gonna have to deal with that, um So.

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Speaker 1: And then like I had this really distorted view of

384
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Speaker 1: like masturbation as well growing up Catholic, because you're maturating

385
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 1: to the gender that you should in huge Catholic quotes

386
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 1: and huge Catholic quote that's already that's wrong too. So

387
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 1: UM the talk quote unquote, the talk that I was

388
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,159
Speaker 1: given was when I was like a sophomore in high school.

389
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:47,120
Speaker 1: I came home from high school one day and Mom's like, oh,

390
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 1: I got a book for you on my bed, and

391
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,880
Speaker 1: I was like, okay U. And I went went into

392
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,639
Speaker 1: a bedroom and on her bed was the book like

393
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,119
Speaker 1: God's Sex and You or something like that. So it

394
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:03,360
Speaker 1: was like a Catholic effective on sexuality. UM, I would

395
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 1: love to get my hands on that book. Was just yeah, yeah,

396
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 1: I got off to that. Yeah right. Something that is

397
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 1: erotic about being like you are bad, you can't do this,

398
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 1: and being like I want to and they're like you can't.

399
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 1: I mean that's like all so. Even though like by

400
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,159
Speaker 1: the time I was a sophomore, I was more independent thinking,

401
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,160
Speaker 1: um and I had fallen in love with the band

402
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,239
Speaker 1: Queen at that time, so I was very much for

403
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 1: like gay liberation, Like but even you knew, so you

404
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 1: were like, I'm gay and I'm going to get really

405
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,120
Speaker 1: into these gay things. Yes, and so I knew it,

406
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 1: but like I was still shamed odd for music too,

407
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: and like a band and and and U a flamboyant

408
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 1: band leader. I know, like think you're odd for queen.

409
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,679
Speaker 1: I Freddie Murky was here today, Like you know they

410
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 1: always tell you, like if you have like one person

411
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,679
Speaker 1: from that you could bring back from the dead, Like me,

412
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 1: it's always Freddie Mercury for me. Yeah. Did you enjoy

413
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 1: his that biopic? Oh? I did it? Yeah, I really did.

414
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 1: Um And I've read a lot of its biographies. But

415
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 1: I found so much solace in his music and Elton

416
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 1: John's music just because they were who they were and

417
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 1: they didn't say sorry about it. Um. But but even

418
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 1: though I was sophomore and I was like starting to

419
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 1: think for myself and for my own opinions, there was

420
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,880
Speaker 1: still that like I'm on living under this roof, um

421
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: where fake news stories are read to me and um

422
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 1: where like you're giving books of shame for thinking how

423
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 1: you think. Um. So when you masturbated, you were thinking

424
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 1: about dudes, and did you feel like so much shame afterwards,

425
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: I did, Oh my god, loads of shame, just like

426
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 1: self cloathing loads like I was. I was put on

427
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 1: antidepresson so early as a kid, really, so they noticed

428
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 1: that something was wrong. They noticed that something was wrong. Um,

429
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 1: that's not I gotta give a little credit to whoever

430
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 1: on those because someone's paying attention. And it was mom.

431
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 1: It wasn't mom or Dad really didn't believe in like

432
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 1: you know, police out by the blue traps, you know,

433
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: right like insert every cliche you've ever heard about manning up,

434
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: you know, and moms like, you know, you're probably deprest. Um.

435
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: So you know, they tried to put me to a

436
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,439
Speaker 1: couple of Christian counselors and I just like saw right

437
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 1: through bullshit right away, and those like we're like one

438
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:22,959
Speaker 1: appointments and done. Um. So yeah, all the shame. And

439
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 1: then so I was dating so interesting fact, I don't

440
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: think I've ever told you this. Um I So I

441
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: was dating this girl in um in high school and

442
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: the reason we're dating is because we had no good

443
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: reason to break up, Like there was I was like similar,

444
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,479
Speaker 1: um no, there, So were you guys having sex? Probably not,

445
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 1: because it's Catholic. Okay, so you're just doing but yeah,

446
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: there was no problems because you guys were friends probably right,

447
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: we were friends, so like there wasn't like it didn't

448
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 1: matter that it didn't work. It was like didn't need

449
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,160
Speaker 1: to work because you weren't supposed to be using it anyway, right,

450
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: we were both like good Catholics. Like yeah, like afraid

451
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 1: to say the word. And I gotta say, like, girls

452
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,439
Speaker 1: don't know how things are supposed to work for boys

453
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: when you're hooking up in high school, especially if you're

454
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 1: like havn't at any experience. I would never be like,

455
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: you can't get your dick up, Like that's a that's

456
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: not even something i'd say now, you know, but like

457
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: at least I would know there's something dysfunctional about it.

458
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 1: And then I would just go, I guess it doesn't

459
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: get hard, like I wouldn't know, especially we we just

460
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 1: I think maybe high schoolers now with the internet, know

461
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: how a penis should work, but I don't think. Um

462
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: back then, I would have been like, my boyfriend can't

463
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 1: get it up, Like I wouldn't know. I would have

464
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 1: been like, thank god, it's a teenager. You can't blame it.

465
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: On whiskey, you'll be like, I got you who dick? Dick?

466
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 1: Is that? So? Like, like how explicit is the show

467
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: is pretty very very yea, So it was like dry

468
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 1: helping to the point of, okay, how that hurts, let's stop. Yes,

469
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 1: but that's also high school. That's everyone's high school, right,

470
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: You just wouldn't have a wet spot in your pants afterwards?

471
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 1: Or maybe what like would you could you close your

472
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 1: eyes and think of a dude? Yes? Okay, so there

473
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: you go. Yeah, and and sometimes that worked, yeah, yeah,

474
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: of course. Yeah. But watching She's all that, you're focusing

475
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,959
Speaker 1: on the Freddie Prince Junior parts in the background, her

476
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: mom's basin, and then afterwards we were like cuddling and

477
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: holding each other like I'm staring off at the wall

478
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 1: like into this like deep abyss, It's just like this

479
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 1: is not right with something about all this, with what

480
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: you have experienced, like because nowaday kids, like so much

481
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: is out there about this where kids are starting hormone

482
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: therapy very young. And then you're saying like you because

483
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 1: of probably how closed off you were, you had no

484
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: idea what the hell what's going on now? With parents

485
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: that are extremely supportive and like giving therapy, hormone therapy,

486
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 1: like kids that are eleven twelve. How what are your

487
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 1: thoughts on that as it when person like how early

488
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: should you start? I mean, I guess it's different for

489
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: every kid. How well, if you would have been in

490
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,959
Speaker 1: in an environment where you were totally supported for who

491
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: you are, what what age would you have been? Like

492
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: I think sometime in seventh or eighth grade. It's when

493
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: I knew. I gotta say, like, that's when you that's

494
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 1: when things click for people, Like that's when people start

495
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: getting depressed, Like if you talk to people that are

496
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: like that's when girls get eating disorders. That's when I

497
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: got my disorder when I went through puberty, which was

498
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: late like seventeen, but like it always lines up, like

499
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,719
Speaker 1: you the shift of knowing who you are and not

500
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: being able to like and any disorders is in response

501
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: to like I know who I am and I don't

502
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 1: like this and I have to do something about it.

503
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: It's like those are the puberty is when that ship

504
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: sets in. It really does, and I'm all for Like,

505
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: you know, I do believe that people know like a

506
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 1: lot earlier, like I think people know when they're eight

507
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: or nine, like I totally believe that, and I totally

508
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: am supportive of parents. Do you think you would have

509
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: known earlier had you been more your parents had been

510
00:27:55,480 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: more like you know, I think, what toy you want gravitate?

511
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: Have Halloween be every day? If my parents knew that

512
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: that people could be transgender? I think if my parents

513
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: knew that, um, and that was I don't want to say,

514
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: presented to me as an option, Dad would have lost

515
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: a lot more shifts, right, people know, but if I

516
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: knew that transgender was a thing when I was growing up,

517
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 1: like I think my parents were this all like like

518
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:25,959
Speaker 1: me dressing up when I was in fourth grade as

519
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: a woman, Like okay, well he might be a little different,

520
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 1: like let's let him explore that instead of like just

521
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: jumping down my throat and like making me afraid to

522
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: come like fifty yards within address. But it made you

523
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: class president? Did Without that? Yeah, would have been as

524
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: strong as you are. Did you do you remember the

525
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: first time you heard about trans or like that was

526
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: a thing, and go like, was it like epiphany? Do

527
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: you remember? It? Honestly wasn't until like late college. Um,

528
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: but by that time, by late college, well, let me

529
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: back up a little bit before that. So so I

530
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: dated this girl, um, and we had no reason to

531
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: break up because we were good Catholics and we didn't

532
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: get an arguments. She was she yeah, and she was

533
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: value Victorian, um right, so like in this friendly little competition,

534
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: so like we never got an argument. Um. So we

535
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: were actually engaged to be married. Yeah, you proposed I did.

536
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: Oh my god. It was the most awkward thing in

537
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: the world. Were you as best friends? Though? Like her

538
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: and I love her and I still talked to her

539
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: and um, but it was one of those situations where

540
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: it's like, we have no reason to break up, so

541
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: we just keep going. Um. Anyway, finally, like you know,

542
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: because I was working at the gay bar concentrically with

543
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: this at the same time. Um, how did you explain

544
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: that away? Oh? Oh, Eventually I told her. I was like, well,

545
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: I'm bisexual, and even though I'm attracted two men and women,

546
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be faithful to you. So that's how I

547
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: explained that away. Um. And the priest who was going

548
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: to marry us at the time. This is interesting. The

549
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: priest was gonna be the Catholic priest who was going

550
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: to marry us, was like okay, and then you know,

551
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: she went off to college. I went for college. And

552
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: then finally he brought me into his office like how

553
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: do you really feel about this? And I totally broke

554
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: down and I said like, I don't think I'm straight, um,

555
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: and he's like, I don't think you are either. I

556
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: don't think you should get married. I think you should

557
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: move away from St. Louis. What a much? Yeah, like

558
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: not in a meeting. He wouldn't that. He was like,

559
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: do you think back here? He was like, you need

560
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: to go somewhere away from where you grew where they'll

561
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: accept you right and and find yourself where you can

562
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: be faded. Yeah, I wish. No it was Arizona where,

563
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: oh my god, where guns were a Plantif Arizona that's

564
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: where Noah is, that's right. Yeah, where in Arizona did

565
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: you go? I lived first in Mesa and then in

566
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: chandler Um. But but anyway, at the kay Bar, so

567
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: like I decided that, like I was by And then

568
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: it wasn't until he called me into his office when

569
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I'm not by, I'm actually gay.

570
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: Was he cool? He was very cool? Was he I think? So? Yeah?

571
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: I think so? Like he's like, run, don't end up.

572
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: What Like He's like, I know you're feeling you just sweet? Yeah.

573
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: Him becoming class president was putting on a preestylet right,

574
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: I mean that really president? Yeah we do. That's why

575
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: I'm a basketball right. Um. And so so how how

576
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: my dad handled this, which was interesting? Um and again

577
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: just you know, because he's a imposing figure. He's six

578
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: ft four, he's huge, Like just you know, I'm five seven.

579
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: He's just imposing figure. Man's man kind of you know,

580
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: never misses a hunting season kind of guy. Um an

581
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: already lifetime member. Um. When when I was moving to

582
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: Arizona and when I broke off the engagement, he was like,

583
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: this isn't that gay thing, is it? M h, I

584
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: don't had you brought it up before? Never, This isn't

585
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: that gay thing like that? But that was his words,

586
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: that gay thing. Oh, like like you didn't catch that

587
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: gay thing, as if it was like a virus that

588
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: was going around. Yeah, and more and more people were

589
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: getting it. Oh you're stupid, stupid in a loving way

590
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: like of just like how dumb, how ignorant? Yeah, exactly.

591
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: And my was what's interesting was my sister had come

592
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: out before me. Who yeah, and oh that was a bombshell.

593
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: Like Dad called all of us and said, regarding certain

594
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: events that have happened in our family, like we are

595
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: not going to discuss and all of us we're like,

596
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: we're proud of Mary. We're gonna tell everybody we possibly can.

597
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: Um that she's like come to herself. Were you like yes?

598
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: I was so yes, I was so excited. Um. But

599
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: then when Dad phrased that question like this is a

600
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: gay thing, is it? Like I just didn't have the

601
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: inner forward dude at that moment to yes to be

602
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: like yes it was. Now I got cool guns in Arizona,

603
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: dead right, you want to go? Yeah? I want to

604
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: go over to the a R fifteens run like water

605
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: or something the half Alina, Right. So I packed up

606
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: my g O and my manly GEO and I got

607
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: out of there. So you said, no, it's not the

608
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: gay thing. It's I just need to go and find

609
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: myself and find out what I want to do with

610
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: my undergreat career go on from there, um, And so

611
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: I decided to drive to Arizona. And when I was

612
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: drove to Arizona, I lived with my sister friend my

613
00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: sister's friend who was also a gay man, a gay teacher. UM.

614
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: And so I was going to explore my sexuality. I

615
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: was going to explore who I was as a person.

616
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: And have you ever been with a man? No? At

617
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: this point, no, I take that back. No, take it back.

618
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: I took it back because I just remembered. UM in

619
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: my senior year of college, because I was, you know,

620
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 1: playing the gay part regularly. UM. I had hooked up

621
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: with two different men at two different periods. UM, I'm like, ship,

622
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: this is it. Like now it's working, Like it works

623
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: and I don't have to think about something different. UM,

624
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 1: Like I woke up next to you and like it

625
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 1: doesn't feel weird and yeah, um, but I still felt

626
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: that I needed to leave somewhere and like even though

627
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: I was accepted in the gay community, I, UM, I

628
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 1: didn't feel like a come out in that community because

629
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: I was so close to family where family was. Yeah.

630
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: So you got to the Arizona and then you you

631
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 1: explored it. I did. I started dating, and but what

632
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: was um at the same time, bad was like I

633
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: jumped into being acquired director and doing music right away.

634
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 1: So living as a gay man but also doing music

635
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: and having my professional career as a choired director. I

636
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: let my career kind of take over and I didn't

637
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: date as much as I should have as someone who

638
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: is like exploring because also we're not technically a gay man,

639
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: it's still not the right fit. So what for you

640
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 1: is was the moment? What to you is that? Because

641
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: I think people get held up of like what's the difference?

642
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: How do you know that? How do you know your

643
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 1: trans and not a gay man? How do um? Oh,

644
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:46,919
Speaker 1: someone described to me. It'll come back to me. Um,

645
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: it's just knowing that these aren't my people, knowing that

646
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 1: this is not my tribe, this is not my I

647
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: can't put work to it. But not like the share

648
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 1: as much. This is not this isn't it? Yes? Um?

649
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: It also makes a lot of sense to me that

650
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 1: like you you seem to throw yourself in the work,

651
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 1: which everyone like, but because you're trans that you're like, well,

652
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 1: why are you not taking the time to explore your

653
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 1: sexuality more like you're not doing that? It's like no,

654
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: A lot of people just focus on work and not

655
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: think within them. See how even these it still is avoiding.

656
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,399
Speaker 1: We all avoid it. Like it makes sense to be like, yeah,

657
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: I was just focusing on my career for that, and

658
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: maybe I'll start focusing on who I am or or

659
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: whatever I am. We all do that with a lot

660
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: of things. Another reason that but we expect you know

661
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 1: your trans you have to figure it out. Why are

662
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: you not figuring it out? Yeah? Maybe I'll figure it

663
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: out next in three years. But also it could be

664
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: something that you're just putting off because you just don't

665
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 1: want to. You don't want to take the chance, You

666
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: don't take the risk, you don't want to. Yeah, you

667
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: don't want to do something that you feel is inherently

668
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: wrong because of how you were raised, right, and part

669
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: of what complicated it was So I grew up in

670
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 1: the Catholic church. I was acquired director in a Catholic church.

671
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 1: So like if I came out as trans, I'd be

672
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: fired instantly. Just that's the environment, is is I lost

673
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: a job here in St. Louis for being trans? Um

674
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: when I was outed? Um, you were outed. We'll hear

675
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: that story right, all right, we're back. How are you outed? Okay?

676
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: So I when I first let me back up a

677
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 1: little bit. In Arizona, So I was directing a fifty

678
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: voice female choir like kind of barber shoppish kind of

679
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: show tunes. Um. And so we had the small little

680
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: group that would get together for an afterglow. So we

681
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: just had wine drank all night and you know, I

682
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: had dinner, Yeah, a little little dinner parties and went

683
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: down on each other right and um, you know, one

684
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: of the women and was like, well, what if your trans?

685
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: And then because you were just like kind of talking

686
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 1: about Yeah, we were talking about like sutuality, like identity,

687
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,720
Speaker 1: growing up, just you know, things all that had released

688
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: program no, no, no, no, this was totally secular. Yeah,

689
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't know what if I

690
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: am trans? Um. So we kind of kick that around

691
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,839
Speaker 1: a little bit. And she was like, I'll tell you what.

692
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: I'm friends with this doctor and I want you to

693
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 1: I want you to go see her. Um and when

694
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 1: you guys just talk and have a conversation and just

695
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: see what godes um. And so I went and saw

696
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: this woman, who I found out later was like the

697
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 1: trans therapist that all trans people go to. Yeah, she

698
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,280
Speaker 1: just happened to be friends with one of the choir members. Yeah,

699
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: like total serendipity, um. And she started asking me all

700
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: these questions about growing up about like cross dressing and

701
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: like you know my the number I was in the

702
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 1: like the order of like you know of second youngest,

703
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 1: and just asking a whole bunch of probing questions about

704
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: how I grew up in my family life, how many

705
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: kids are in your family? In the second that's like

706
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,919
Speaker 1: there's something about like more. I know that gay men

707
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: tend to be further down the line. Yes, why because

708
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,280
Speaker 1: the woman's body like is drained of or is drained

709
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: of testosteron. I don't know, I used to the kind

710
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 1: of thing children are more likely to be gay men

711
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 1: or I guess trans right. And there are things. There

712
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 1: are medicines I know that UM studies that have been

713
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: linked to the medication that a mother takes UM when

714
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 1: she's pregnant, that that also have been known to lead

715
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: to UM whatever happens in the brain to inform you

716
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 1: that you are female. Yes, you know UM. And so

717
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: I've never had that conversation with mom yet about like

718
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 1: what her diet while she was pregnant, what drugs she

719
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: took while she was pregnant, what how much stress was

720
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: she under when she was pregnant. It doesn't really matter either,

721
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: because she just does No one needs to be blamed

722
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: because there's nothing wrong with what you are exactly, Like,

723
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: there's no when people need to like figure out the

724
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 1: source of like explain why it happened suddenly, like it's

725
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,399
Speaker 1: looking to place blame somewhere, when really blame is just

726
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:30,280
Speaker 1: a way of, uh making something seem like it's wrong. Right,

727
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 1: So no one yet or or I mean, I guess

728
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: it could be like, well, let's figure out a way

729
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: to make more trans kids by taking those, but I

730
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: don't think that's what we are looking for when we

731
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: research that, we're looking to squash that from happening, which

732
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 1: is not a thing that should be done. You know

733
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: that should be done. We should be like preventing trans children.

734
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 1: But that is interesting. We can't even have that conversation

735
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: with your mom, And that's a conversation that I've like

736
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: just accepted that it's laid to rest that whatever happened.

737
00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: So in Arizona, so I was, I left directing high

738
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 1: school at churches, and then I went and taught choral

739
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: music at a Catholic high school and then everything went well.

740
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 1: They gave me a ten tho dollar raids at the

741
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 1: end of the year, and then they called me to

742
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 1: the office about Oh, I would say, a couple of

743
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: weeks after school, are you still presenting as a man?

744
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: I was still presenting as a gay man. Um, And

745
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: they said, um, we found some articles online where you

746
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: identified as a gay man, and uh, we're really sorry,

747
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 1: but that goes against Catholic doctrine. We can no longer

748
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 1: have you hired here. We have to let you go.

749
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,720
Speaker 1: And so I was fired as a gay man. And

750
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: so that led to a mental spiral for that lasted

751
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: a good year and a half to the point where, um,

752
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:51,399
Speaker 1: I really don't want to get your show all dark.

753
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 1: That's where okay, okay, so and you can lighten this

754
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: up because I've already been to Fair've already been a

755
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: plany of therapy to get through this. So like, so

756
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: I did try to kill myself when, um, because I

757
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 1: felt that identity and yeah, you just lost your job.

758
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: You're just like who you are is wrong? What am

759
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: I doing? Yeah? Who I am? You be? This thing

760
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: that you are, this great Arizona experiment was now coming

761
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: to an end. I don't know to do. So my

762
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 1: family was like, how did you try to kill yourself?

763
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: How did you try to kill yourself. I took. I

764
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: don't know how many sleeping pills I took. And then um,

765
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: oxy tosin is that the cotton cotton I always get

766
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: confused with and feel good? Is the hormone? I think?

767
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 1: And yeah, the pain killers. I took so many pain

768
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: killers and just try to cut my veins. You can

769
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 1: play still see scars. This is all from that one time. Yeah,

770
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 1: you just went Finally, I took so many sleeping pills

771
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 1: that I fell asleep and oh my god doing it?

772
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 1: And then how did you not? Then? Well, I fell

773
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: asleep and write a letter. No, I just's like I'm done.

774
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: Most people don't know. I couldn't. I couldn't. I've written

775
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 1: dear Mom and Dad letters since then and then have

776
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 1: since never obviously I never sent them and have always

777
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,760
Speaker 1: convinced myself to come out. And trans people kill themselves

778
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: more than any any people. Trans women. It's estimated that

779
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: about trans women will try to kill themselves at some

780
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: point in their life. Jesus Christ. Yes, okay, so how

781
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 1: did you not die? So? So the sleeping pills knocked

782
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 1: me out. I ended up like dropping the raids of Blatan,

783
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: and I wolcome the next morning with scars all over

784
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: my body? Oh you woke up? Yeah, I woke up

785
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 1: the next morning just covered in blood. Thought of that?

786
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: You were like, am I still in my dad? Like?

787
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 1: Did you remember what you've done? And were you kind

788
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 1: of like I didn't remember. I got to clean this ship. Um,

789
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 1: but then as it slowly came back to lose my

790
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 1: deposit on my apartment because everywhere, but I'm like, weirdly

791
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 1: well rested that. Yeah, melatonin exactly. I don't think that

792
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: really was it was it? Um? Did you? Were you

793
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: mad that you were alive? Some people when they was yeah,

794
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:15,800
Speaker 1: but I was like, I'm a life for a reason. Yeah,

795
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: I'm not going to try it again. Let me just

796
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: accept that this happened and see what I can do

797
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: about Keep putting one ft in front of the other

798
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 1: and see what that goes. Was this the first time

799
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 1: you like it all hit a wall? Or because until

800
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: then were you depressed in high school where you thought

801
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: suicidal thoughts because I had never yeah, actually commenced it

802
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 1: or like go attempted that are transgender correct? Like yeah,

803
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: that is absolutely so. You didn't have these kind of

804
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: thoughts until until adulthood. And did you do this on

805
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 1: the heels of getting fired like that that night or

806
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: was it like, did you try to talk to friends

807
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: about it? Did you try to go back to that doctor? Like?

808
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: Did you it was there anywhere you could go before

809
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 1: you reached for that? There wasn't. There wasn't it. You

810
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 1: went home and I was like, I was fired. I

811
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: have no place to go. I don't want to go

812
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 1: back to my family. I'm again this great Arizona experiment

813
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 1: of like living as a gay man obviously didn't work.

814
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:14,240
Speaker 1: You're just like, I gotta not be here because I'm

815
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 1: everything about me is wrong and the thing that I

816
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 1: want to be is wrong. Why can I How can

817
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: I do this? And I arrantly had the idea that

818
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: um that the only thing I was capable of doing

819
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 1: was working as acquire director in the Catholic church. I

820
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: was like, as soon as I come out as trans like,

821
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: I'm done, Like there's something else I can do? What

822
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 1: am I the one place that I got my doctorate

823
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 1: in sacred music that like qualifies you to work in

824
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: church and kind of stuck doing a certain type of thing.

825
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 1: Final thoughts, So we got to close this up. But

826
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:47,879
Speaker 1: I want to just say that that that makes sense

827
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 1: to me is that you you've you put yourself in

828
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: this position where the only thing you can do, like

829
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,439
Speaker 1: suddenly I got suicidal when stand up was taken away

830
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: from with the with COVID or if you know. I

831
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 1: tend to go to those thoughts of like I can't

832
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: be here anymore, when I feel like I who I

833
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: am inherently I keep sucking up. I'm causing everyone else pain.

834
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: Everyone's embarrassed of me. I can't stop who I am

835
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 1: and I need to I need to go. And that

836
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 1: especially if the one thing I do is taken from

837
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 1: me and I have no I mean, it does put

838
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 1: you in that position of like, okay, well then I

839
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: just I'm done here, I guessed, so what do you do?

840
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 1: What do you do? Do you just? Uh? Well, I

841
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: had that mental breakdown. I tried to kill myself, and

842
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 1: I went through an outpatient therapy program and finally my

843
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: family family convinced me to move back to St. Louis,

844
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: and I was like, Okay, I'm gonna move to St.

845
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 1: Louis right now. Dad has told me he just there's

846
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: even a new opening at our firm, like it's time.

847
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: By this time he owns his own did you know,

848
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: did he know that that gay thing was a real

849
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: thing at this point when you at this point, he

850
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: did because they had come back and visited I'm your

851
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 1: sister as Dave Mary right right, and she had been married.

852
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: Of course they didn't come to the wedding and it's

853
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 1: far chester Field, Louis joke. Um. And so I came

854
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 1: back to St. Louis. I was like, I'm gonna constant Louis,

855
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 1: get my mental health in order, and then I'm gonna

856
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 1: leave the country or not to leave the country. But

857
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 1: that would have been nice, leave Missouri and then transition

858
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 1: somewhere else. But as it turns out, I ended up

859
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: transitioning here. But before I go for you was finishing

860
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: transitioning like hormonally and living like in society as a woman. Um,

861
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,399
Speaker 1: I was still working for a Catholic church. I don't

862
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,720
Speaker 1: know why. I will explore that with my new therapist tonight.

863
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 1: Um it's all you know, Yeah, it's all I knew.

864
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:57,839
Speaker 1: And then you can go back into it. So see

865
00:47:57,840 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 1: an opening where they don't know you're gay, or maybe

866
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: they're cool with the gay thing. Then you go back.

867
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: It's part of you being like, look, I'm I'm just

868
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 1: a human being, just like you you want to be.

869
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: There's something I think really positive about even if cathologism

870
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: negative towards it. But like showing them like, hey, I'm

871
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: a human. Here I am, well look at like you

872
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 1: could hide and go find a certain but here you

873
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 1: are going in close quarters. You can kind of take

874
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 1: it to sign and be like, listen, I get what

875
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: you're going through. Right, Well, there's something beautiful about going

876
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 1: to a place where you're not invited and says this

877
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: right thing, and I shared it with Ri yesterday. My

878
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: therapist says that in our romantic relationships, and I think

879
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 1: even in the jobs we choose the people we surround

880
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: ourselves with, we're trying to mend the thing we did,

881
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: the thing we thought about ourselves from childhood. Whether your

882
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: mom didn't give you enough a dungeon, your dad didn't

883
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: give you enough a duenetion, whatever story you have about

884
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: yourself in your childhood that your parents gave you intentionally unintentionally.

885
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 1: They're good people, bad people, it doesn't matter. We're we

886
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: as adults, we try to recreate that exact same scenario

887
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 1: where we're not getting what we got as child in childhood,

888
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 1: and we're trying to actually convince that person we are good. So,

889
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 1: like if you didn't get attention from your mom as

890
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 1: a child as a child, or they didn't like, you know,

891
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 1: whatever you didn't get as a child, you're trying to

892
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 1: recreate that same exact scenario and then you're trying to

893
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: prove it wrong and so wrap it up. And so

894
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 1: you're constantly throwing yourself back into the similar situation as

895
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: your childhood, as um, being in a place where they

896
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 1: don't accept who you are fundamentally, and you'll really never can.

897
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: You're always trying to mend that. So you've got to

898
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 1: be aware of the choices that you make. And and

899
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:39,800
Speaker 1: it makes sense that you would keep going back the

900
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: Catholic Church. I wanted to. By this time, I was

901
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,839
Speaker 1: enough of a like socialists and like just as far

902
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: left as possible that I was like, you know, I

903
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 1: want to be trans in Catholic Church. I want to

904
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 1: just like say like you Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

905
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,319
Speaker 1: So I was closer to the choir that I are

906
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 1: doing this for a political statement. Yeah, absolutely, you're just

907
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:05,399
Speaker 1: doing it to challenge yes, you know, um, just throw

908
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 1: it down institutionalism and yeah, like, honestly, we don't have

909
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 1: one straight guy that wants this job. Yeah, yeah, right.

910
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 1: So I was out to enough of the choir members.

911
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: Finally one of the choir members, I assume it was

912
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 1: one of the chore members, um out of me to

913
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 1: the priest, and then the priest called again and I

914
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: was fired from the Catholic directing job. And it was

915
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 1: finally that time I said, fuck you Catholic Church. I'm

916
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:31,919
Speaker 1: not going to work for you ever again. Good um.

917
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: And now I work for a very open, firming get

918
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:38,319
Speaker 1: semny Lutheran Church, Get se Many Lutheran Church, get sem,

919
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 1: get semnate like the garden of get s Mandy in

920
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: the Bible. Oh, I thought it was like get and

921
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 1: then like seen get seen in me. That's the kind

922
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 1: of church being a part of get somebody. Yeah, I'm

923
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 1: sure they don't appreciate that joke, but they won't appreciate that.

924
00:50:56,680 --> 00:51:00,040
Speaker 1: My pastor is an absolute fan of yours. Listen to

925
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: this and laugh that we're making fun of our name. Well,

926
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 1: that's great that you ended up to. I've had a

927
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 1: name naming ceremony, that's right, yeah, which was really beautiful,

928
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 1: and I had my sisters who had come around to

929
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 1: support me, like be my sponsors, so to speak, and

930
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: be there around me when I was um ceremoniously choosing

931
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: the name Aria and ceremoniously be giving the name Aria. Um,

932
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 1: so there was some wonderful um like liturgical ceremonial closure

933
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 1: or um. Yeah, you got like reborn. Yeah, there's a

934
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: sense of being reborn. It's it's funny because when we

935
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,280
Speaker 1: first met, I had no clue that you were trans.

936
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 1: I just thought you were born a woman, this woman

937
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 1: like had no clue that, um, that you were trans.

938
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 1: And I felt a little bit nervous telling you once

939
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:58,800
Speaker 1: I found out you were trans, like, um, I want to.

940
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's because to me being like,

941
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 1: oh my god, I would never know your trans makes

942
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: it implies that there's something wrong with being trans, or

943
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:08,880
Speaker 1: like oh you're getting away with no one knowing, so like,

944
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 1: good for you. But it was also I learned that

945
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 1: and this isn't for everyone who has changed, but you

946
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: you appreciated hearing like you're passing like it's not because

947
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:21,720
Speaker 1: I think what people think. So we're talking about yesterday.

948
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 1: So many trans people feel like, you know, people think

949
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 1: they're trying to get attention, and they're just trying to

950
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 1: like be different and you know, make a political statement

951
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 1: when really trans people just don't want any attention. They

952
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 1: just want to like be normal. They don't. Yeah, they

953
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: don't want you to have to know their trans they

954
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 1: don't want everywhere they go for you to whisper and

955
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,839
Speaker 1: be like that's oh my god. They're like they just

956
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: they want to just fly under the radar. They're not.

957
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,280
Speaker 1: They're looking to be treated equal, not to be treated

958
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 1: like better than or like special treatment. And I think

959
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 1: so often that we we think that they want something

960
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 1: more than just equal rights, but to get those they

961
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 1: have to be a little bit loud and obnoxious sometimes

962
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:07,920
Speaker 1: because that's the only way change happens. So don't don't

963
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:12,479
Speaker 1: misunderstand people fighting for trans rights of them wanting more

964
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 1: than just what everyone else gets normally. That's all they're

965
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: asking for. It's never been in more than yes, it's

966
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 1: just equal to Yeah, well this has been. We have

967
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: to wrap this up, but this has been. I feel

968
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 1: like we tied it up pretty well. I think so too. Yeah,

969
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 1: we got to a place where you are who you

970
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 1: are now. Um, I want to direct people to if

971
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 1: they're in the St. Louis area. Your sound healing and

972
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 1: voice lessons, my mom takes voice sessions from Aria. She

973
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 1: is just if you're someone who's just wanted to explore

974
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:41,280
Speaker 1: your voice, and you also give do you do piano lessons?

975
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:45,359
Speaker 1: Like what it? Well, two main things I do, Um,

976
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 1: sound healing is your main Sound healing is the main

977
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,399
Speaker 1: thing I do. And sound healing is like using therapeutic

978
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 1: instruments that you know obviously the produce sound, UM, but

979
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 1: use them in a way that works with people's energy,

980
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 1: whether that be like physical energy, emotional and spiritual energy

981
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 1: and kind of helps realign them and kind of helps

982
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 1: repattern stress and anxiety and depression. You would never know

983
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 1: that lying on a table and having someone makes voises

984
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 1: around you would be so spiritually down. And there's like

985
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:22,920
Speaker 1: these gongs and these little chimes that you just go,

986
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 1: how is this vibrating through my whole body? And the like, Yeah,

987
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 1: I kind of rolled my eyes at it in the past,

988
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 1: and I thought I felt very there's a vibration from

989
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:37,879
Speaker 1: my cat when he purs that I feel that it's

990
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 1: like it gets inside of me. Yeah. Absolutely. Um. And

991
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,759
Speaker 1: so if you go to ARIA, so a r I

992
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 1: A sound one oh eight aria sound one oh eight UM.

993
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 1: You can investigate. Yeah, dot com I have UM everything

994
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:55,280
Speaker 1: about sound healing on there um and you can message

995
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:59,760
Speaker 1: me about voice lessons or sound healing UM, but sound healing.

996
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:02,399
Speaker 1: Some that I always do is balance the chakras um.

997
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:05,720
Speaker 1: Get your energy is flowing, right. I always UM clean

998
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 1: and cleanse your aura um to see if there's any

999
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:11,800
Speaker 1: like negativity in there, any like repattern that needs to happen.

1000
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 1: And always you know, you know that fight or flight

1001
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:22,240
Speaker 1: with within you um cortisol. Yeah, that parasympathetic sympathetic system

1002
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 1: always balanced that and kind of work with whatever is

1003
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 1: going on. Yeah, it's like kind of scary to go

1004
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:31,319
Speaker 1: do any kind of lesson or like a sound healing

1005
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: at someone's house because that's what happens. But she's got

1006
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 1: an amazing setup. She's so kind and understand like you don't.

1007
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:40,399
Speaker 1: It's not awkward at all. It's just like try something new.

1008
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:42,239
Speaker 1: So if you're in the St. Louis area, check out

1009
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: dot com right or a plumber I asked to do that.

1010
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 1: On the side, we can promote your dad's business, right,

1011
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: and I also give riots to gay man any car

1012
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:04,359
Speaker 1: one of the second things voice lessons. So I give

1013
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 1: voice lessons to Nikki, which you know talking most of

1014
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 1: the time, but I do give voice lessons nicky Um.

1015
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 1: I give just normal voice lessons. I also work with

1016
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 1: the trans population and helping to do vocal feminization, so

1017
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:18,959
Speaker 1: working with their voice to kind of place it higher

1018
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:22,759
Speaker 1: in their voice so they don't sound a lot of

1019
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 1: a lot of trans women are afraid that like once

1020
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:26,839
Speaker 1: they open their mouths and speak, that they'll be quote

1021
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 1: unquote given away. Yes, um, and they want their voices

1022
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 1: sound different. So I've worked with trans women to kind

1023
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 1: of work with their voice, their speaking voice and their

1024
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:40,800
Speaker 1: singing voice. Could you work with trans men too to

1025
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 1: lower their voice? Well, the testasan automatically lowers their voice,

1026
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 1: but now I haven't yet worked with trans men, but

1027
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 1: I certainly would not be opposed to. Well and you do.

1028
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 1: You could do that over zoom right, absolutely. Yeah. If

1029
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 1: you like where you heard here and you were and

1030
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 1: any of it resonates with you, hit up Aria Aria

1031
00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 1: Sound one oh eight dot com and you're gonna be

1032
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 1: here tomorrow for our episode where we go through fan trax,

1033
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 1: So look forward to that. We were so exciting tomorrow

1034
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 1: on the show Don't Be And